Re: welding/steel boats
Another option for those who choose to build metal boats.
Check with your local high school, of community college.
They sometimes have "Classes" that allow you to build a project.
Pretty cheap way to get the use of good tools.
I guess one could do that with real boats too.
Pat
Check with your local high school, of community college.
They sometimes have "Classes" that allow you to build a project.
Pretty cheap way to get the use of good tools.
I guess one could do that with real boats too.
Pat
I've used both types of welders as an amatuer. I can say from my experience
that you can do a decent job with both.
On a large job such as a boat, the wire welder is really the way to go. If
your going to put together a project such as a boat trailer and then pack it
away for a few years until the next small project, the stick welder is
cheaper, easier maintenance, and less hassle.
On the farm, my Dad did a lot of welding. He went through a number of wire
feeds over the years. They'd either stop feeding reliable or burn out.
He'd drag out the stick welder again and use it for years until he had large
project, then get another wire fed.
I'm now have and use his 40 year old stick weld.
As in boats, it's all about compromise concerning the job you need done.
Jeff
that you can do a decent job with both.
On a large job such as a boat, the wire welder is really the way to go. If
your going to put together a project such as a boat trailer and then pack it
away for a few years until the next small project, the stick welder is
cheaper, easier maintenance, and less hassle.
On the farm, my Dad did a lot of welding. He went through a number of wire
feeds over the years. They'd either stop feeding reliable or burn out.
He'd drag out the stick welder again and use it for years until he had large
project, then get another wire fed.
I'm now have and use his 40 year old stick weld.
As in boats, it's all about compromise concerning the job you need done.
Jeff
The best welding I ever did was welding my vice grips.
Seriosly, if your question is whether you can weld, and not
should weld, I believe the best advice I have heard, and it
may have been a past post here, was to beg, borrow, or steal,
enough money to buy a Good wirefeed outfit. (Big Bucks)
The Pros can, but don't, use cheap stick welders.
Do some serious shopping, and buy a good used one.
Learn how to use it.
Build your boat.
Sell it for more than you paid, and pay back your friends.
It is my undertanding that the right equipment makes All
the diffence in welding.
My two bits (welded together) worth.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon.
Seriosly, if your question is whether you can weld, and not
should weld, I believe the best advice I have heard, and it
may have been a past post here, was to beg, borrow, or steal,
enough money to buy a Good wirefeed outfit. (Big Bucks)
The Pros can, but don't, use cheap stick welders.
Do some serious shopping, and buy a good used one.
Learn how to use it.
Build your boat.
Sell it for more than you paid, and pay back your friends.
It is my undertanding that the right equipment makes All
the diffence in welding.
My two bits (welded together) worth.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon.
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Ok, so it was my first experience with an arc welder, but the
> lawnmower has a handle; albeit, the handle is upside down.
>
> I was just wondering, welding is really a straight forward
process.
> Since Bolger has designed so many multi chine and square boats, why
> aren't there more of them built of steel. This material appears
easy
> to handle, and the techniques are relatively easy to learn. (this
> having been said after welding a pair of vice grips to the
lawnmower,
> darned visor is hard to see through, but the house is still
standing.)
>
> Food for thought.
>
> David Jost
As in many endeavors you can learn to stick two peices of steel
together in just a few minutes. I can show you two welds that look
for all intents and purposes alike. One I will be able to break apart
using only my hands and the other will take a torch. If you can't
tell the difference maybe you shouldn't be welding a boat. If you are
going to sail in two feet of water go ahead. I once read where a
steel boat of 39 feet took a ton of epoxy filler to fair and it was
welded by pros. For the handle of a lawn mower a 10% weld will hold.
Half way across the Atlantic I would want 100%.
together in just a few minutes. I can show you two welds that look
for all intents and purposes alike. One I will be able to break apart
using only my hands and the other will take a torch. If you can't
tell the difference maybe you shouldn't be welding a boat. If you are
going to sail in two feet of water go ahead. I once read where a
steel boat of 39 feet took a ton of epoxy filler to fair and it was
welded by pros. For the handle of a lawn mower a 10% weld will hold.
Half way across the Atlantic I would want 100%.
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Ok, so it was my first experience with an arc welder, but the
> lawnmower has a handle; albeit, the handle is upside down.
>
> I was just wondering, welding is really a straight forward process.
> Since Bolger has designed so many multi chine and square boats, why
> aren't there more of them built of steel. This material appears
easy
> to handle, and the techniques are relatively easy to learn. (this
> having been said after welding a pair of vice grips to the
lawnmower,
> darned visor is hard to see through, but the house is still
standing.)
>
> Food for thought.
>
> David Jost
I agree that Bolger has designed about as many small steel boats as
anyone. The reason that they are rare is that steel is a heavy
material for small boat construction. By the time you get the plating
thin enough so that tensile and compressive strength are comparable
to wood construction, the material is too thin and flexible.
Bolger's steel boats include a "tug" about 16' long, the Hasler 1-
hand ocean-crosser, the 39' sharpie Lion's Paw (a personal favorite),
a utility of about 20' for an Irish customer, and a number of large
power cruisers.
Even if you build the hull of wood, the ability to fabricate steel
can be a great asset in building Bolger boats. There are the hinges
on the Folding Schooner, mast tabernacle parts on many boats, and
steel ballast in a lot of the sharpies.
Peter
p.s. other designers who have done "small steel" include William
Atkin (20' sloop) and Yves-Marie Tanton. Tanton likes metal
construction. Most of his designs are 30' and up, but there is Spark,
a 24' v-bottom cruising sloop. Unfortunately he seems to have removed
the drawing from his web site, but if anyone is greatly interested, I
will see if I can find it and post it.
anyone. The reason that they are rare is that steel is a heavy
material for small boat construction. By the time you get the plating
thin enough so that tensile and compressive strength are comparable
to wood construction, the material is too thin and flexible.
Bolger's steel boats include a "tug" about 16' long, the Hasler 1-
hand ocean-crosser, the 39' sharpie Lion's Paw (a personal favorite),
a utility of about 20' for an Irish customer, and a number of large
power cruisers.
Even if you build the hull of wood, the ability to fabricate steel
can be a great asset in building Bolger boats. There are the hinges
on the Folding Schooner, mast tabernacle parts on many boats, and
steel ballast in a lot of the sharpies.
Peter
p.s. other designers who have done "small steel" include William
Atkin (20' sloop) and Yves-Marie Tanton. Tanton likes metal
construction. Most of his designs are 30' and up, but there is Spark,
a 24' v-bottom cruising sloop. Unfortunately he seems to have removed
the drawing from his web site, but if anyone is greatly interested, I
will see if I can find it and post it.
David,
Bolger does show a number of metal boat designs in his
books.However,I suppose the real answer to your question would be
simply this:the folks who commission a particular design usually
specify the material of construction.In very small boats,you have to
be very good at your craft as the material will be very thin with
little room for goof-ups.
While most folks can figure out rather quickly how to use a hammer
and saw,not to mention a screw driver,welding is another thing.Someone
has to show you/teach you how to use this stuff.Then you have to
acquire the equipement which ultimately has a somewhat limited
all-around usefullness for the average guy.Furthermore,most hardware
stores/lumberlands stock just about everything a person needs to build
a small wooden boat.I'm not sure the same situation exists for those
looking to buy a certain grade of steel and thickness.....
I once read somewhere that,if you're going to build a steel
boat,you should build two of them.The first one you sell for the cost
of materials and the second one you keep.The first one can look
awefully rough as you climb the learning curve :-)
And finally,not to make too fine a point of this but,wood is nice,
very nice,and invites one to touch its surface,explore its
grain,discover its texture and revel in its smell.In fact,the whole
process of working with wood implies that you become well acquainted
with it.......almost intimate. I have yet to sense any of these
desires when around a heap of steel plate oxidizing itself in public.
I guess I'm just showing my own prejudices even though there are some
beautiful steel boats out there that could put a good many wooden
boats to shame.
I look forward to seeing pictures of your completed trailer!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the shores of the cold dark St.Lawrence........
Bolger does show a number of metal boat designs in his
books.However,I suppose the real answer to your question would be
simply this:the folks who commission a particular design usually
specify the material of construction.In very small boats,you have to
be very good at your craft as the material will be very thin with
little room for goof-ups.
While most folks can figure out rather quickly how to use a hammer
and saw,not to mention a screw driver,welding is another thing.Someone
has to show you/teach you how to use this stuff.Then you have to
acquire the equipement which ultimately has a somewhat limited
all-around usefullness for the average guy.Furthermore,most hardware
stores/lumberlands stock just about everything a person needs to build
a small wooden boat.I'm not sure the same situation exists for those
looking to buy a certain grade of steel and thickness.....
I once read somewhere that,if you're going to build a steel
boat,you should build two of them.The first one you sell for the cost
of materials and the second one you keep.The first one can look
awefully rough as you climb the learning curve :-)
And finally,not to make too fine a point of this but,wood is nice,
very nice,and invites one to touch its surface,explore its
grain,discover its texture and revel in its smell.In fact,the whole
process of working with wood implies that you become well acquainted
with it.......almost intimate. I have yet to sense any of these
desires when around a heap of steel plate oxidizing itself in public.
I guess I'm just showing my own prejudices even though there are some
beautiful steel boats out there that could put a good many wooden
boats to shame.
I look forward to seeing pictures of your completed trailer!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the shores of the cold dark St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Since Bolger has designed so many multi chine and square boats, why
> aren't there more of them built of steel.
>
> David Jost
Ok, so it was my first experience with an arc welder, but the
lawnmower has a handle; albeit, the handle is upside down.
I was just wondering, welding is really a straight forward process.
Since Bolger has designed so many multi chine and square boats, why
aren't there more of them built of steel. This material appears easy
to handle, and the techniques are relatively easy to learn. (this
having been said after welding a pair of vice grips to the lawnmower,
darned visor is hard to see through, but the house is still standing.)
Food for thought.
David Jost
lawnmower has a handle; albeit, the handle is upside down.
I was just wondering, welding is really a straight forward process.
Since Bolger has designed so many multi chine and square boats, why
aren't there more of them built of steel. This material appears easy
to handle, and the techniques are relatively easy to learn. (this
having been said after welding a pair of vice grips to the lawnmower,
darned visor is hard to see through, but the house is still standing.)
Food for thought.
David Jost