RE: [bolger] Re: Regulations (size)
Hey Pat,
Good story -- reminded me of our first "after dark" Chebacco trip. We'd
driven to a very rustic "ramp" well away from civilization to go and meet
friends who were big-boat chartering in the area. We met up with them at
the appointed anchorage, but got to talking way too long, and didn't leave
until the light was fading (fast).
We'd no running lights, but didn't see anyone anywhere. I had looked back
at the outline of the hills as we left in the afternoon, so I had a rough
idea of where to aim -- the night sky being lighter than the hills. We also
had chart and compass, but didn't know then if the compass had any deviation
(it didn't), or what the tide might be doing to us.
There's a nice little island, with a tail of rocks, not too far from the
ramp. I expected to see this to starboard, but we almost rammed it dead on,
even going slowly as we were by then (top speed is only 5.5 knots anyway.)
Could have been worse -- when we tried to go around it, we got caught up in
the rock garden. Didn't hit any, but finally had to turn back a couple of
hundred yards to make sure we got around them all.
Then we had to find an unlighted ramp on an unlighted shore, with everything
shrouded in trees. We had it narrowed down to maybe 200 yards of shoreline,
thanks to the island, and we had a good flashlight. It still took two
passes before my wife (handling the light and the looking) thought she had
it. Just as we touched shore, a good samaritan arrived -- he'd seen our
light, and came down to guide us in. Nice of him to come out for a couple
of dumb strangers without proper equipment.
Finally, the tide was down considerably from the afternoon, and the ramp was
almost as rough as the rest of the beach. I couldn't back the trailer in
properly because the wheels disappeared down a hole that I could never pull
out of with the boat on. That's when I found out that although I need water
to launch, I can winch the boat up on the trailer with the bunks only just
awash! I stood well to the side while I cranked, in case the eyebolt came
out....
Good trip, though!
Jamie Orr
PS You said you "thought" you had to work for a living...? Care to share
your secret with the rest of us? I still think I have to, but I'd love to
hear different!!
-----Original Message-----
From:pateson@...[mailto:pateson@...]
Sent: November 16, 2001 3:53 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Regulations (size)
Speaking of Lights.
Long story, but short story is running my Rapid Robert with
my trusty Johnson after sunset with no running lights.
Long story to follow. (Judge showed no mercy $86)
Labor Day a few years ago.
A lot of my boating buddies are teachers, so Labor Day has always
been the one last big bash when they get to lament the end of their
3-month vacation, and get themselves mentally prepared for the
structure that school will provide for them. (They lose most of that
structure during those three months, and the bash really doesn't help
much.)
We had managed to get another ticket the year before, and I should
have known better, but that is another long story, even better,maybe
later.
We Don't go Anywhere on Labor Day Anymore. Too dangerous.
Our bash was always held at Timmothy Lake, a big lake in the
mountains east of Portland Oregon. Beautiful place, with
no "Speedboats", Jet skis, or water-skiers.
This particular year we had somewhere between 20 and 30 people,
depending on how many kids you count, and several boats ranging from
rubber rafts to a 25' sailboat.
Unfortunately this was back in the time when I thought I had to work
for a living, and we had to be in Portland on the Saturday. My wife
and I were not going to be able to spend the weekend at the lake.
There is a large campground on the south side, but it has become a
sardine can in recent years, and is not the kind of camping we like
to do.
Kay (my Wife) and I had gone up to the lake on Thursday to stake out
a good big campsite on the far side of the lake. Our camping has
become beach boat camping, where we load our tons of provisions in
our small boats, and travel the mile and a half across the lake to
our "Private" campsite.
We had spent Thursday night on the lake, and on Friday began helping
the arriving hoards ferry their supplies across the lake. It is
always amazing how much "stuff" we are able to transport in small
boats. The Navy would be proud.
Anyway, after a long day of meeting and greeting and helping set up
everbody's camps, it was finally getting time for us to leave.
It was late summer, and the days were getting shorter. (Insert
ominous music here) By the time we were really, finally, ready to
leave, the sun was starting to set. The sun sets fairly quickly at
the lake, as it is surrounded by mountains.
There was "plenty of daylight" though. No problem. We set off for the
ramp at the far side of the lake at "hull speed" for our 14' Rapid
Robert. More power just makes a bigger hole, so I didn't try to go
fast, and it was a beautiful evening.
The end to a perfect day. We had the lake to ourselves, or so I
thought. (Bring up the music)
Then, I spotted a dot on the horizon. A fisherman's last attempt at
dinner?
The "dot" was getting bigger, and coming toward us. Then I heard the
rumble of the 460 Ford, and the flashing lights came on.
"Oh S### ". No "Speedboats", except for this guy, coming full bore.
I stopped, waiting his approach, and he pulled up beside us. His
wake arrived next, making if difficult to keep from banging against
his big aluminum sled.
While I attempted to keep us fended off, he went down the litany
of "Registration, lifejackets, fire extinguisher", and all the other
requirements.
He scrutinized the registration, and looked at my little wooden boat,
antique motor, and did his best to find some piece of safety
equipment that I did not have, or that was not in working order.
Not finding any, it was time for "The Lecture".
"The Reason I Stopped You Was Because You Do Not Have Running Lights
And It Is After Sunset. It Is Dangerous, because other boats can't
see you. Blah Blah Blah ."
He and I were the Only boats on the lake, and he apparently hadn't
had any problem seeing us from clear across the lake.
He then proceeded to write me the afore mentioned ticket, under the
flashing lights.
I thanked him for his concern for our safety.
Well, twenty minutes later, it was indeed past sunset, and it was,
by then, quite dark.
I had was quite blinded by the flashing lights, any "nigh vision"
long since gone, and disoriented, as we had been drifting in circles
during his speech.
Instead of "Escorting" us back to the ramp, he simply cranked up his
"Thunder Boat" and circled around back toward the ramp, again leaving
us bobbing in his wake. ("Thanks a Lot Buddy")
It does get dark on those mountain lakes. I oriented myself as best
I could, now being about ½ mile from shore and in total darkness.
I could see the big campground, and tried to count "Dark Spots"
between the rows of campfires, figuring that the "Dark Spots" must be
the ramps, and that if I counted right, I would find ours.
The journey was rather uneventful except for the "Party Boat" that
was drifting a couple hundred yards offshore. (With no lights, but
Lots of laughter)
When we finally made it back to the ramp the "Server and Protector"
had his boat loaded and was headed for home.
(Violins Please)
I guess the moral of the story is to spring for the $29.95 Battery
powered "Combo Lights" and be prepared for the time you "Really
didn't expect to be out that late".
Have Fun
Pat
Good story -- reminded me of our first "after dark" Chebacco trip. We'd
driven to a very rustic "ramp" well away from civilization to go and meet
friends who were big-boat chartering in the area. We met up with them at
the appointed anchorage, but got to talking way too long, and didn't leave
until the light was fading (fast).
We'd no running lights, but didn't see anyone anywhere. I had looked back
at the outline of the hills as we left in the afternoon, so I had a rough
idea of where to aim -- the night sky being lighter than the hills. We also
had chart and compass, but didn't know then if the compass had any deviation
(it didn't), or what the tide might be doing to us.
There's a nice little island, with a tail of rocks, not too far from the
ramp. I expected to see this to starboard, but we almost rammed it dead on,
even going slowly as we were by then (top speed is only 5.5 knots anyway.)
Could have been worse -- when we tried to go around it, we got caught up in
the rock garden. Didn't hit any, but finally had to turn back a couple of
hundred yards to make sure we got around them all.
Then we had to find an unlighted ramp on an unlighted shore, with everything
shrouded in trees. We had it narrowed down to maybe 200 yards of shoreline,
thanks to the island, and we had a good flashlight. It still took two
passes before my wife (handling the light and the looking) thought she had
it. Just as we touched shore, a good samaritan arrived -- he'd seen our
light, and came down to guide us in. Nice of him to come out for a couple
of dumb strangers without proper equipment.
Finally, the tide was down considerably from the afternoon, and the ramp was
almost as rough as the rest of the beach. I couldn't back the trailer in
properly because the wheels disappeared down a hole that I could never pull
out of with the boat on. That's when I found out that although I need water
to launch, I can winch the boat up on the trailer with the bunks only just
awash! I stood well to the side while I cranked, in case the eyebolt came
out....
Good trip, though!
Jamie Orr
PS You said you "thought" you had to work for a living...? Care to share
your secret with the rest of us? I still think I have to, but I'd love to
hear different!!
-----Original Message-----
From:pateson@...[mailto:pateson@...]
Sent: November 16, 2001 3:53 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Regulations (size)
Speaking of Lights.
Long story, but short story is running my Rapid Robert with
my trusty Johnson after sunset with no running lights.
Long story to follow. (Judge showed no mercy $86)
Labor Day a few years ago.
A lot of my boating buddies are teachers, so Labor Day has always
been the one last big bash when they get to lament the end of their
3-month vacation, and get themselves mentally prepared for the
structure that school will provide for them. (They lose most of that
structure during those three months, and the bash really doesn't help
much.)
We had managed to get another ticket the year before, and I should
have known better, but that is another long story, even better,maybe
later.
We Don't go Anywhere on Labor Day Anymore. Too dangerous.
Our bash was always held at Timmothy Lake, a big lake in the
mountains east of Portland Oregon. Beautiful place, with
no "Speedboats", Jet skis, or water-skiers.
This particular year we had somewhere between 20 and 30 people,
depending on how many kids you count, and several boats ranging from
rubber rafts to a 25' sailboat.
Unfortunately this was back in the time when I thought I had to work
for a living, and we had to be in Portland on the Saturday. My wife
and I were not going to be able to spend the weekend at the lake.
There is a large campground on the south side, but it has become a
sardine can in recent years, and is not the kind of camping we like
to do.
Kay (my Wife) and I had gone up to the lake on Thursday to stake out
a good big campsite on the far side of the lake. Our camping has
become beach boat camping, where we load our tons of provisions in
our small boats, and travel the mile and a half across the lake to
our "Private" campsite.
We had spent Thursday night on the lake, and on Friday began helping
the arriving hoards ferry their supplies across the lake. It is
always amazing how much "stuff" we are able to transport in small
boats. The Navy would be proud.
Anyway, after a long day of meeting and greeting and helping set up
everbody's camps, it was finally getting time for us to leave.
It was late summer, and the days were getting shorter. (Insert
ominous music here) By the time we were really, finally, ready to
leave, the sun was starting to set. The sun sets fairly quickly at
the lake, as it is surrounded by mountains.
There was "plenty of daylight" though. No problem. We set off for the
ramp at the far side of the lake at "hull speed" for our 14' Rapid
Robert. More power just makes a bigger hole, so I didn't try to go
fast, and it was a beautiful evening.
The end to a perfect day. We had the lake to ourselves, or so I
thought. (Bring up the music)
Then, I spotted a dot on the horizon. A fisherman's last attempt at
dinner?
The "dot" was getting bigger, and coming toward us. Then I heard the
rumble of the 460 Ford, and the flashing lights came on.
"Oh S### ". No "Speedboats", except for this guy, coming full bore.
I stopped, waiting his approach, and he pulled up beside us. His
wake arrived next, making if difficult to keep from banging against
his big aluminum sled.
While I attempted to keep us fended off, he went down the litany
of "Registration, lifejackets, fire extinguisher", and all the other
requirements.
He scrutinized the registration, and looked at my little wooden boat,
antique motor, and did his best to find some piece of safety
equipment that I did not have, or that was not in working order.
Not finding any, it was time for "The Lecture".
"The Reason I Stopped You Was Because You Do Not Have Running Lights
And It Is After Sunset. It Is Dangerous, because other boats can't
see you. Blah Blah Blah ."
He and I were the Only boats on the lake, and he apparently hadn't
had any problem seeing us from clear across the lake.
He then proceeded to write me the afore mentioned ticket, under the
flashing lights.
I thanked him for his concern for our safety.
Well, twenty minutes later, it was indeed past sunset, and it was,
by then, quite dark.
I had was quite blinded by the flashing lights, any "nigh vision"
long since gone, and disoriented, as we had been drifting in circles
during his speech.
Instead of "Escorting" us back to the ramp, he simply cranked up his
"Thunder Boat" and circled around back toward the ramp, again leaving
us bobbing in his wake. ("Thanks a Lot Buddy")
It does get dark on those mountain lakes. I oriented myself as best
I could, now being about ½ mile from shore and in total darkness.
I could see the big campground, and tried to count "Dark Spots"
between the rows of campfires, figuring that the "Dark Spots" must be
the ramps, and that if I counted right, I would find ours.
The journey was rather uneventful except for the "Party Boat" that
was drifting a couple hundred yards offshore. (With no lights, but
Lots of laughter)
When we finally made it back to the ramp the "Server and Protector"
had his boat loaded and was headed for home.
(Violins Please)
I guess the moral of the story is to spring for the $29.95 Battery
powered "Combo Lights" and be prepared for the time you "Really
didn't expect to be out that late".
Have Fun
Pat
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Do tell, ticketed for what?
>
> --- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> > Just to belabor the point.
> > The "length" of my boats is what I put on the application
> > I mail for a title.
> > I've been stopped, and ticketed with my homebuilts,
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Speaking of Lights.
Long story, but short story is running my Rapid Robert with
my trusty Johnson after sunset with no running lights.
Long story to follow. (Judge showed no mercy $86)
Labor Day a few years ago.
A lot of my boating buddies are teachers, so Labor Day has always
been the one last big bash when they get to lament the end of their
3-month vacation, and get themselves mentally prepared for the
structure that school will provide for them. (They lose most of that
structure during those three months, and the bash really doesn't help
much.)
We had managed to get another ticket the year before, and I should
have known better, but that is another long story, even better,maybe
later.
We Don't go Anywhere on Labor Day Anymore. Too dangerous.
Our bash was always held at Timmothy Lake, a big lake in the
mountains east of Portland Oregon. Beautiful place, with
no "Speedboats", Jet skis, or water-skiers.
This particular year we had somewhere between 20 and 30 people,
depending on how many kids you count, and several boats ranging from
rubber rafts to a 25' sailboat.
Unfortunately this was back in the time when I thought I had to work
for a living, and we had to be in Portland on the Saturday. My wife
and I were not going to be able to spend the weekend at the lake.
There is a large campground on the south side, but it has become a
sardine can in recent years, and is not the kind of camping we like
to do.
Kay (my Wife) and I had gone up to the lake on Thursday to stake out
a good big campsite on the far side of the lake. Our camping has
become beach boat camping, where we load our tons of provisions in
our small boats, and travel the mile and a half across the lake to
our "Private" campsite.
We had spent Thursday night on the lake, and on Friday began helping
the arriving hoards ferry their supplies across the lake. It is
always amazing how much "stuff" we are able to transport in small
boats. The Navy would be proud.
Anyway, after a long day of meeting and greeting and helping set up
everbody's camps, it was finally getting time for us to leave.
It was late summer, and the days were getting shorter. (Insert
ominous music here) By the time we were really, finally, ready to
leave, the sun was starting to set. The sun sets fairly quickly at
the lake, as it is surrounded by mountains.
There was "plenty of daylight" though. No problem. We set off for the
ramp at the far side of the lake at "hull speed" for our 14' Rapid
Robert. More power just makes a bigger hole, so I didn't try to go
fast, and it was a beautiful evening.
The end to a perfect day. We had the lake to ourselves, or so I
thought. (Bring up the music)
Then, I spotted a dot on the horizon. A fisherman's last attempt at
dinner?
The "dot" was getting bigger, and coming toward us. Then I heard the
rumble of the 460 Ford, and the flashing lights came on.
"Oh S### ". No "Speedboats", except for this guy, coming full bore.
I stopped, waiting his approach, and he pulled up beside us. His
wake arrived next, making if difficult to keep from banging against
his big aluminum sled.
While I attempted to keep us fended off, he went down the litany
of "Registration, lifejackets, fire extinguisher", and all the other
requirements.
He scrutinized the registration, and looked at my little wooden boat,
antique motor, and did his best to find some piece of safety
equipment that I did not have, or that was not in working order.
Not finding any, it was time for "The Lecture".
"The Reason I Stopped You Was Because You Do Not Have Running Lights
And It Is After Sunset. It Is Dangerous, because other boats can't
see you. Blah Blah Blah ."
He and I were the Only boats on the lake, and he apparently hadn't
had any problem seeing us from clear across the lake.
He then proceeded to write me the afore mentioned ticket, under the
flashing lights.
I thanked him for his concern for our safety.
Well, twenty minutes later, it was indeed past sunset, and it was,
by then, quite dark.
I had was quite blinded by the flashing lights, any "nigh vision"
long since gone, and disoriented, as we had been drifting in circles
during his speech.
Instead of "Escorting" us back to the ramp, he simply cranked up his
"Thunder Boat" and circled around back toward the ramp, again leaving
us bobbing in his wake. ("Thanks a Lot Buddy")
It does get dark on those mountain lakes. I oriented myself as best
I could, now being about ½ mile from shore and in total darkness.
I could see the big campground, and tried to count "Dark Spots"
between the rows of campfires, figuring that the "Dark Spots" must be
the ramps, and that if I counted right, I would find ours.
The journey was rather uneventful except for the "Party Boat" that
was drifting a couple hundred yards offshore. (With no lights, but
Lots of laughter)
When we finally made it back to the ramp the "Server and Protector"
had his boat loaded and was headed for home.
(Violins Please)
I guess the moral of the story is to spring for the $29.95 Battery
powered "Combo Lights" and be prepared for the time you "Really
didn't expect to be out that late".
Have Fun
Pat
Long story, but short story is running my Rapid Robert with
my trusty Johnson after sunset with no running lights.
Long story to follow. (Judge showed no mercy $86)
Labor Day a few years ago.
A lot of my boating buddies are teachers, so Labor Day has always
been the one last big bash when they get to lament the end of their
3-month vacation, and get themselves mentally prepared for the
structure that school will provide for them. (They lose most of that
structure during those three months, and the bash really doesn't help
much.)
We had managed to get another ticket the year before, and I should
have known better, but that is another long story, even better,maybe
later.
We Don't go Anywhere on Labor Day Anymore. Too dangerous.
Our bash was always held at Timmothy Lake, a big lake in the
mountains east of Portland Oregon. Beautiful place, with
no "Speedboats", Jet skis, or water-skiers.
This particular year we had somewhere between 20 and 30 people,
depending on how many kids you count, and several boats ranging from
rubber rafts to a 25' sailboat.
Unfortunately this was back in the time when I thought I had to work
for a living, and we had to be in Portland on the Saturday. My wife
and I were not going to be able to spend the weekend at the lake.
There is a large campground on the south side, but it has become a
sardine can in recent years, and is not the kind of camping we like
to do.
Kay (my Wife) and I had gone up to the lake on Thursday to stake out
a good big campsite on the far side of the lake. Our camping has
become beach boat camping, where we load our tons of provisions in
our small boats, and travel the mile and a half across the lake to
our "Private" campsite.
We had spent Thursday night on the lake, and on Friday began helping
the arriving hoards ferry their supplies across the lake. It is
always amazing how much "stuff" we are able to transport in small
boats. The Navy would be proud.
Anyway, after a long day of meeting and greeting and helping set up
everbody's camps, it was finally getting time for us to leave.
It was late summer, and the days were getting shorter. (Insert
ominous music here) By the time we were really, finally, ready to
leave, the sun was starting to set. The sun sets fairly quickly at
the lake, as it is surrounded by mountains.
There was "plenty of daylight" though. No problem. We set off for the
ramp at the far side of the lake at "hull speed" for our 14' Rapid
Robert. More power just makes a bigger hole, so I didn't try to go
fast, and it was a beautiful evening.
The end to a perfect day. We had the lake to ourselves, or so I
thought. (Bring up the music)
Then, I spotted a dot on the horizon. A fisherman's last attempt at
dinner?
The "dot" was getting bigger, and coming toward us. Then I heard the
rumble of the 460 Ford, and the flashing lights came on.
"Oh S### ". No "Speedboats", except for this guy, coming full bore.
I stopped, waiting his approach, and he pulled up beside us. His
wake arrived next, making if difficult to keep from banging against
his big aluminum sled.
While I attempted to keep us fended off, he went down the litany
of "Registration, lifejackets, fire extinguisher", and all the other
requirements.
He scrutinized the registration, and looked at my little wooden boat,
antique motor, and did his best to find some piece of safety
equipment that I did not have, or that was not in working order.
Not finding any, it was time for "The Lecture".
"The Reason I Stopped You Was Because You Do Not Have Running Lights
And It Is After Sunset. It Is Dangerous, because other boats can't
see you. Blah Blah Blah ."
He and I were the Only boats on the lake, and he apparently hadn't
had any problem seeing us from clear across the lake.
He then proceeded to write me the afore mentioned ticket, under the
flashing lights.
I thanked him for his concern for our safety.
Well, twenty minutes later, it was indeed past sunset, and it was,
by then, quite dark.
I had was quite blinded by the flashing lights, any "nigh vision"
long since gone, and disoriented, as we had been drifting in circles
during his speech.
Instead of "Escorting" us back to the ramp, he simply cranked up his
"Thunder Boat" and circled around back toward the ramp, again leaving
us bobbing in his wake. ("Thanks a Lot Buddy")
It does get dark on those mountain lakes. I oriented myself as best
I could, now being about ½ mile from shore and in total darkness.
I could see the big campground, and tried to count "Dark Spots"
between the rows of campfires, figuring that the "Dark Spots" must be
the ramps, and that if I counted right, I would find ours.
The journey was rather uneventful except for the "Party Boat" that
was drifting a couple hundred yards offshore. (With no lights, but
Lots of laughter)
When we finally made it back to the ramp the "Server and Protector"
had his boat loaded and was headed for home.
(Violins Please)
I guess the moral of the story is to spring for the $29.95 Battery
powered "Combo Lights" and be prepared for the time you "Really
didn't expect to be out that late".
Have Fun
Pat
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Do tell, ticketed for what?
>
> --- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> > Just to belabor the point.
> > The "length" of my boats is what I put on the application
> > I mail for a title.
> > I've been stopped, and ticketed with my homebuilts,
Do tell, ticketed for what?
--- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> Just to belabor the point.
> The "length" of my boats is what I put on the application
> I mail for a title.
> I've been stopped, and ticketed with my homebuilts,
I think it is O.K. as long as you do it in proximity
to an Ivy League College, or a prep school. At least
that was my experience as a kid.
--- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Recommend you investigate what is the magic property
of sculls and <BR>
other fast rowing boats. People typically go out minus
life jackets or <BR>
any other equipment, and the serious boats tend to be
over 20 feet <BR>
long. Haven't heard many stories of them being
hassled. I suppose <BR>
human power is one helper, but that doesn't explain
the life jacket <BR>
bit. Of course you can't row properly with one on.
Wish I could do <BR>
some more of that kind of rowing but I think I've
demonstrated that my <BR>
back isn't up to it.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry I can't convey any practical info.<BR>
--- In bolger@y..., DougCulhane@a... wrote:<BR>
and <BR>
to <BR>
</tt>
<br>
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
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to an Ivy League College, or a prep school. At least
that was my experience as a kid.
--- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Recommend you investigate what is the magic property
of sculls and <BR>
other fast rowing boats. People typically go out minus
life jackets or <BR>
any other equipment, and the serious boats tend to be
over 20 feet <BR>
long. Haven't heard many stories of them being
hassled. I suppose <BR>
human power is one helper, but that doesn't explain
the life jacket <BR>
bit. Of course you can't row properly with one on.
Wish I could do <BR>
some more of that kind of rowing but I think I've
demonstrated that my <BR>
back isn't up to it.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry I can't convey any practical info.<BR>
--- In bolger@y..., DougCulhane@a... wrote:<BR>
> I'm planning a boat, and in more than one place Isaw a reference to <BR>
> 16 ft. as being some decisive cut off in howboats are registered <BR>
and <BR>
> regulated. The boat I want to build is16'3", but if that's going <BR>
to <BR>
> throw me into a whole other realm of regulationsI can adapt it to <BR>
> 15'-11". The state I'm concerned withis Massachusetts. I couldn't <BR>
> find Massachusetts boat regs on the web so anyinfo would be <BR>
> appreciated. Thanks, Doug<BR><BR>
</tt>
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
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topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
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Recommend you investigate what is the magic property of sculls and
other fast rowing boats. People typically go out minus life jackets or
any other equipment, and the serious boats tend to be over 20 feet
long. Haven't heard many stories of them being hassled. I suppose
human power is one helper, but that doesn't explain the life jacket
bit. Of course you can't row properly with one on. Wish I could do
some more of that kind of rowing but I think I've demonstrated that my
back isn't up to it.
Sorry I can't convey any practical info.
other fast rowing boats. People typically go out minus life jackets or
any other equipment, and the serious boats tend to be over 20 feet
long. Haven't heard many stories of them being hassled. I suppose
human power is one helper, but that doesn't explain the life jacket
bit. Of course you can't row properly with one on. Wish I could do
some more of that kind of rowing but I think I've demonstrated that my
back isn't up to it.
Sorry I can't convey any practical info.
--- In bolger@y..., DougCulhane@a... wrote:
> I'm planning a boat, and in more than one place I saw a reference to
> 16 ft. as being some decisive cut off in how boats are registered
and
> regulated. The boat I want to build is 16'3", but if that's going
to
> throw me into a whole other realm of regulations I can adapt it to
> 15'-11". The state I'm concerned with is Massachusetts. I couldn't
> find Massachusetts boat regs on the web so any info would be
> appreciated. Thanks, Doug
On this motors thing today, reading this thread I got to thinking of
a motor bracket for presumably a small motor that would be on the
business end of a yulloh/sweep type beam. When you need it, you just
shove it overboard and steer away. It wouldn't be a motor mount and
might sidestep taxes based on that definition. {probably the only
useful part of this was that it gave me an image that has me back on
track trying to figure out how to mount a motor on my trimaran.
a motor bracket for presumably a small motor that would be on the
business end of a yulloh/sweep type beam. When you need it, you just
shove it overboard and steer away. It wouldn't be a motor mount and
might sidestep taxes based on that definition. {probably the only
useful part of this was that it gave me an image that has me back on
track trying to figure out how to mount a motor on my trimaran.
Just to belabor the point.
The "length" of my boats is what I put on the application
I mail for a title.
I've been stopped, and ticketed with my homebuilts,
but I've never seen a cop with a tape, and if I were
a couple of inches long, I know where I would hold the
"Other end".
Don't let the regulations stop you from building it the
way it should be built.
I really Do give the actual measurements of my boats.
Most of the regulations, if a pain, are things I would
probalbly do anyway, except paying the money.
(Sure was glad to have that big "Distress Flag")
Numbers and stickers can be put on a "permanent" board you
can remove for show if you want, and lights, too can be removable.
Motors seem to be The Big "decisive cut off", now, in most states,
rather than length.
Oregon is starting to require a "License" to opperate
any motor "more than 10 HP". I always wondered why there were so
many 9.9 HP motors.
I think it's aimed mostly at the idiots on PWC.
It does require a minimum amount of knowlege and rules of
the water. (No high speeds in swimming areas etc.)
I hope it will help.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon
The "length" of my boats is what I put on the application
I mail for a title.
I've been stopped, and ticketed with my homebuilts,
but I've never seen a cop with a tape, and if I were
a couple of inches long, I know where I would hold the
"Other end".
Don't let the regulations stop you from building it the
way it should be built.
I really Do give the actual measurements of my boats.
Most of the regulations, if a pain, are things I would
probalbly do anyway, except paying the money.
(Sure was glad to have that big "Distress Flag")
Numbers and stickers can be put on a "permanent" board you
can remove for show if you want, and lights, too can be removable.
Motors seem to be The Big "decisive cut off", now, in most states,
rather than length.
Oregon is starting to require a "License" to opperate
any motor "more than 10 HP". I always wondered why there were so
many 9.9 HP motors.
I think it's aimed mostly at the idiots on PWC.
It does require a minimum amount of knowlege and rules of
the water. (No high speeds in swimming areas etc.)
I hope it will help.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon
I just re-read Schorpion, and thought it is rather
interesting. There aren't that many other designers
who have made such a point of political writing.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
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<tt>
I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his
discussion <BR>
of politics almost always seems to drag down his
writing.<BR>
<BR>
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish
it didn't.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
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interesting. There aren't that many other designers
who have made such a point of political writing.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his
discussion <BR>
of politics almost always seems to drag down his
writing.<BR>
<BR>
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish
it didn't.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
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I just re-read Schorpion, and thought it is rather
interesting. There aren't that many other designers
who have made such a point of political writing.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his
discussion <BR>
of politics almost always seems to drag down his
writing.<BR>
<BR>
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish
it didn't.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
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_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com
interesting. There aren't that many other designers
who have made such a point of political writing.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his
discussion <BR>
of politics almost always seems to drag down his
writing.<BR>
<BR>
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish
it didn't.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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<td align=center><font size="-1"
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
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--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
read on this board today.
Having dealt with "registering" and "titleing" home-built
boats myself, I found the discussion of other states'
rules, and such, rather informative. Few states' statutes
specifically exclude Bolger-designed craft from licensing/
registration/titling laws.
I really can not address Mr. Bolger's political opinions
as I have no interest in them and therefore excercise
my right to not read them.
On the topic of home-built boat registration, in Illinois,
one fills out a form, mails it in with a check (amount dependant
upon the "length" of the boat), and waits around a couple months
to recieve a title and registration numbers. No reciepts or
sales tax required.
Max
> I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his discussionWell, this is the most "political" post that I have
> of politics almost always seems to drag down his writing.
>
> It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish it didn't.
read on this board today.
Having dealt with "registering" and "titleing" home-built
boats myself, I found the discussion of other states'
rules, and such, rather informative. Few states' statutes
specifically exclude Bolger-designed craft from licensing/
registration/titling laws.
I really can not address Mr. Bolger's political opinions
as I have no interest in them and therefore excercise
my right to not read them.
On the topic of home-built boat registration, in Illinois,
one fills out a form, mails it in with a check (amount dependant
upon the "length" of the boat), and waits around a couple months
to recieve a title and registration numbers. No reciepts or
sales tax required.
Max
I know that Mr. Bolger is a libertarian, but it his discussion
of politics almost always seems to drag down his writing.
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish it didn't.
of politics almost always seems to drag down his writing.
It does the same thing in the newsgroup. I wish it didn't.
I don't mind paying the taxes when they make sense. However the taxes I pay
on my boat don't go towards managing waterwaterways, the go to the state's
General Fund where they are used (mostly) to hire more conservation rangers
whose primary duty seems to be making sure everybody has paid their taxes.
It not quite as bad as the ancient Romans who hired local tax collectors who
got to keep whatever excess they managed to extort from the people, but it's
getting that way.
Anyway, we went out boating today, just me and my son in our AF4 'Mr.
Moon'. I've still not received my numbers from the state yet, but I have
paid my taxes for this year. I'm waiting to get picked on by the state for
not displaying my GA XXXXXX number.
on my boat don't go towards managing waterwaterways, the go to the state's
General Fund where they are used (mostly) to hire more conservation rangers
whose primary duty seems to be making sure everybody has paid their taxes.
It not quite as bad as the ancient Romans who hired local tax collectors who
got to keep whatever excess they managed to extort from the people, but it's
getting that way.
Anyway, we went out boating today, just me and my son in our AF4 'Mr.
Moon'. I've still not received my numbers from the state yet, but I have
paid my taxes for this year. I'm waiting to get picked on by the state for
not displaying my GA XXXXXX number.
----- Original Message -----
From: <teakdeck@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 2:41 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Regulations (size)
| So,
|
| I suspect many in this group would go to some length (well, sixteen feet
or
| less to be exact, I guess) to legally avoid paying taxes, which by the way
is
| our right. That is, to not pay one dime more in taxes than is absolutely
| required by the law. But I'm curious:
|
| Do you think managing the waterways in the United States is a good use of
| taxes? In particular, as builders and sailors of small sail boats, are we
| likely to be in favor of protecting our waters from pollution and
| environmental harm?
|
| I live nearby a small lake and that is where I go to test out a boat or a
| modification to a boat. I have to buy a sticker to put on my vehicle when
I
| put in there. I don't mind paying for the sticker. What really does bother
me
| though is lack of improvements to the boat launch area.
|
| In other words, as a sailor, I actually want to see improvements made to
| public facilities and I want lakes and bays to be clean and healthy. I
expect
| to pay taxes and use fees to have that accomplished.
|
| Mike Masten
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
Paul,
It must be length on Deck. My Herreshoff Goldeneye was assessed
based on her hull length without the sprit. That was a town
decision.
It must be length on Deck. My Herreshoff Goldeneye was assessed
based on her hull length without the sprit. That was a town
decision.
--- In bolger@y..., DougCulhane@a... wrote:
registered, though it isn't required. To initially register it, I
needed pay $9 and show my receipts for plywood, etc. as "proof of
ownership". I now pay $10 every two years for their sticker.
Registration is required for sail and motor boats longer than 8 feet.
[with a few exemptions, see
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/boatfaq.htm#BM2562
for details]
The reason I am happy to pay for registration is that I would need
their "vessel ID number" for the authorities to track, should the
boat ever be stolen.
Bruce Hallman
> I saw a reference to 16 ft. as being some decisive cut offHere in California, my 14' long rowboat [Michalak's] "Roar" is
> in how boats are registered and regulated.
registered, though it isn't required. To initially register it, I
needed pay $9 and show my receipts for plywood, etc. as "proof of
ownership". I now pay $10 every two years for their sticker.
Registration is required for sail and motor boats longer than 8 feet.
[with a few exemptions, see
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/boatfaq.htm#BM2562
for details]
The reason I am happy to pay for registration is that I would need
their "vessel ID number" for the authorities to track, should the
boat ever be stolen.
Bruce Hallman
I think you missed my drift. My concern over the 16' mark was not
about tax evasion but was triggered by a quote from the sainted John
Gardner himself:
"However, this difference in length could be important in a situation
where 16 feet of overall length has been set by statute or
administrative edict as the cut-off point. Some of the regulations
applying to small craft are arbitrary, ill-advised, and in general
nuisances well worth bypassing." -John Gardner "Building Classic
Small Craft" p. 82
I would put running lights on a rowboat in that category. I'm in
complete agreement with you on individuals' responsibilities to
contribute to the upkeep and management of our waterways. So your
sermon was misplaced, although maybe there's been some prior
discussion of this on the list. Don't mean to open up a hornets'
nest here...
Doug
about tax evasion but was triggered by a quote from the sainted John
Gardner himself:
"However, this difference in length could be important in a situation
where 16 feet of overall length has been set by statute or
administrative edict as the cut-off point. Some of the regulations
applying to small craft are arbitrary, ill-advised, and in general
nuisances well worth bypassing." -John Gardner "Building Classic
Small Craft" p. 82
I would put running lights on a rowboat in that category. I'm in
complete agreement with you on individuals' responsibilities to
contribute to the upkeep and management of our waterways. So your
sermon was misplaced, although maybe there's been some prior
discussion of this on the list. Don't mean to open up a hornets'
nest here...
Doug
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> So,
>
> I suspect many in this group would go to some length (well, sixteen
feet or
> less to be exact, I guess) to legally avoid paying taxes, which by
the way is
> our right. That is, to not pay one dime more in taxes than is
absolutely
> required by the law. But I'm curious:
>
> Do you think managing the waterways in the United States is a good
use of
> taxes? In particular, as builders and sailors of small sail boats,
are we
> likely to be in favor of protecting our waters from pollution and
> environmental harm?
>
> I live nearby a small lake and that is where I go to test out a
boat or a
> modification to a boat. I have to buy a sticker to put on my
vehicle when I
> put in there. I don't mind paying for the sticker. What really does
bother me
> though is lack of improvements to the boat launch area.
>
> In other words, as a sailor, I actually want to see improvements
made to
> public facilities and I want lakes and bays to be clean and
healthy. I expect
> to pay taxes and use fees to have that accomplished.
>
> Mike Masten
Thanks. This is exactly the info I was looking for. I'm going to go
for the full 16'3". Doug
for the full 16'3". Doug
--- In bolger@y..., ravenous@g... wrote:
> State registrations typically follow the class divisions as
> originally defined in the federal Motorboat Act of 1940.
>
> They are
> class A = less than 16 ft
> class 1 = 16 feet and over, less than 26 feet
> class 2 = 26 feet and over, less than 40 feet
> class 3 = 40 feet and over
>
> As John Bell pointed out, how each state chooses to apply safety
regs
> based on these classes varies, but there are few federal regulation
> differences between class A and class 1 boats.
Your boat needs to be pretty good sized to be documented by the US Coast
Guard. I extracted the information below from the Coast Guard's web page
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm. I do know that they refused to
document our FG Cascade 29 as it was too small (29' x 8' x 4.5', 8500 lbs
disp.) but I didn't have the calculator mentioned below to double check
them. I just ran through it (as an exercise since we've since sold the
boat) and it comes out to 4 tons with a fin keel (which was the case) and 5
tons with a intergral keel.
WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED?
A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of
certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the
U.S.
HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS?
Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused
with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most
vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more.
For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based
interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine
Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3.htm
(there is an online calculator / form at
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm)
Larry
Guard. I extracted the information below from the Coast Guard's web page
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm. I do know that they refused to
document our FG Cascade 29 as it was too small (29' x 8' x 4.5', 8500 lbs
disp.) but I didn't have the calculator mentioned below to double check
them. I just ran through it (as an exercise since we've since sold the
boat) and it comes out to 4 tons with a fin keel (which was the case) and 5
tons with a intergral keel.
WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED?
A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of
certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the
U.S.
HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS?
Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused
with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most
vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more.
For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based
interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine
Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3.htm
(there is an online calculator / form at
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm)
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <timothy@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:14 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Regulations (size)
> Well, if the boat is big enough, you can get USCG registration, which
> means you don't have to register it with your state.
>
> I have NO idea what the cutoff is on that. Anybody?
>
> Now mind you, you might still have to pay 'use' tax, depending on what
> state you are in, and depending on how long the boat is in the water..
>
> Pays to look it up.
>
Dave,
I know a lieutenant with the Mass. DRV in Hyannis who has given me the same
info as yours; but let me ask a question regarding USCG ratings - is the
class determined by LOA, or LOD? Micro's hull is less than 16', but with
boomkin its LOA is over 16', so which class does it fall into? You have
more sailing experience in these waters than anyone else I know, so as our
newest micro owner I figure you must have figured this out already.
I continue to wrestle with the motor concept even though I've been offered a
Johnson 2hp free (I'll certainly try it out but am not terribly optimistic);
the purist in me resists owning a motor with all the noise and fumes, but
worse from my current roof-rack boater perspective are the legal hassles and
expense - including, apparently, annual town excise tax, which if it's like
cars, never ends even if you don't register it every year (at least in my
town) until you present proof you no longer own it. But while 'flying under
the beaurocratic radar' is appealing, so are the open waters of Vineyard
Sound peeking up just across the dunes, and only reachable on most winds
from my home waters, with some kind of motor.... (sigh!). I asked my friend
about electric motors, but in Mass anyway, a motor is a motor, and requires
registration........ and I doubt even two electrics would be up to the
currents around here on a heavy boat like Micro.....
Home improvement jobs are all finally out of the way, got my epoxy & glass,
marine ply should be in this weekend; last weekend I cleaned out the garage
and built a new workbench, put in more lighting, and gave notice to my wife
that soon her car will be exiled to the frost zone....... excitement builds
and soon, so will I! Looking forward to testing Raka's low-temp
performance......
Paul L.
I know a lieutenant with the Mass. DRV in Hyannis who has given me the same
info as yours; but let me ask a question regarding USCG ratings - is the
class determined by LOA, or LOD? Micro's hull is less than 16', but with
boomkin its LOA is over 16', so which class does it fall into? You have
more sailing experience in these waters than anyone else I know, so as our
newest micro owner I figure you must have figured this out already.
I continue to wrestle with the motor concept even though I've been offered a
Johnson 2hp free (I'll certainly try it out but am not terribly optimistic);
the purist in me resists owning a motor with all the noise and fumes, but
worse from my current roof-rack boater perspective are the legal hassles and
expense - including, apparently, annual town excise tax, which if it's like
cars, never ends even if you don't register it every year (at least in my
town) until you present proof you no longer own it. But while 'flying under
the beaurocratic radar' is appealing, so are the open waters of Vineyard
Sound peeking up just across the dunes, and only reachable on most winds
from my home waters, with some kind of motor.... (sigh!). I asked my friend
about electric motors, but in Mass anyway, a motor is a motor, and requires
registration........ and I doubt even two electrics would be up to the
currents around here on a heavy boat like Micro.....
Home improvement jobs are all finally out of the way, got my epoxy & glass,
marine ply should be in this weekend; last weekend I cleaned out the garage
and built a new workbench, put in more lighting, and gave notice to my wife
that soon her car will be exiled to the frost zone....... excitement builds
and soon, so will I! Looking forward to testing Raka's low-temp
performance......
Paul L.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:djost@...[mailto:djost@...]
>
> In Massachusetts, you need to register any motor propelled craft.
>
> Rowboats, canoes, sailboats, and human driven craft do not need to be
> registered unless they have a motor for auxilliary power (that
> includes electric motors).
>
> If the boat is over 16' that is when you need to pay attention to the
> USCG regulations for Class 1 running lights and other safety
> equipment.
>
> Class A
> Class 1
> Class 2
> Class 3
>
>
In Massachusetts, you need to register any motor propelled craft.
Rowboats, canoes, sailboats, and human driven craft do not need to be
registered unless they have a motor for auxilliary power (that
includes electric motors).
If the boat is over 16' that is when you need to pay attention to the
USCG regulations for Class 1 running lights and other safety
equipment.
Class A
Class 1
Class 2
Class 3
To get your registration for a homebuilt boat, bring all of your
boatbuilding receipts with you to the Department of Recreational
Vehicles and you will not have to pay state tax on your creation.
David Jost
Ashland, MA
Rowboats, canoes, sailboats, and human driven craft do not need to be
registered unless they have a motor for auxilliary power (that
includes electric motors).
If the boat is over 16' that is when you need to pay attention to the
USCG regulations for Class 1 running lights and other safety
equipment.
Class A
Class 1
Class 2
Class 3
To get your registration for a homebuilt boat, bring all of your
boatbuilding receipts with you to the Department of Recreational
Vehicles and you will not have to pay state tax on your creation.
David Jost
Ashland, MA
So,
I suspect many in this group would go to some length (well, sixteen feet or
less to be exact, I guess) to legally avoid paying taxes, which by the way is
our right. That is, to not pay one dime more in taxes than is absolutely
required by the law. But I'm curious:
Do you think managing the waterways in the United States is a good use of
taxes? In particular, as builders and sailors of small sail boats, are we
likely to be in favor of protecting our waters from pollution and
environmental harm?
I live nearby a small lake and that is where I go to test out a boat or a
modification to a boat. I have to buy a sticker to put on my vehicle when I
put in there. I don't mind paying for the sticker. What really does bother me
though is lack of improvements to the boat launch area.
In other words, as a sailor, I actually want to see improvements made to
public facilities and I want lakes and bays to be clean and healthy. I expect
to pay taxes and use fees to have that accomplished.
Mike Masten
I suspect many in this group would go to some length (well, sixteen feet or
less to be exact, I guess) to legally avoid paying taxes, which by the way is
our right. That is, to not pay one dime more in taxes than is absolutely
required by the law. But I'm curious:
Do you think managing the waterways in the United States is a good use of
taxes? In particular, as builders and sailors of small sail boats, are we
likely to be in favor of protecting our waters from pollution and
environmental harm?
I live nearby a small lake and that is where I go to test out a boat or a
modification to a boat. I have to buy a sticker to put on my vehicle when I
put in there. I don't mind paying for the sticker. What really does bother me
though is lack of improvements to the boat launch area.
In other words, as a sailor, I actually want to see improvements made to
public facilities and I want lakes and bays to be clean and healthy. I expect
to pay taxes and use fees to have that accomplished.
Mike Masten
State registrations typically follow the class divisions as
originally defined in the federal Motorboat Act of 1940.
They are
class A = less than 16 ft
class 1 = 16 feet and over, less than 26 feet
class 2 = 26 feet and over, less than 40 feet
class 3 = 40 feet and over
As John Bell pointed out, how each state chooses to apply safety regs
based on these classes varies, but there are few federal regulation
differences between class A and class 1 boats. It is my
understanding that in equipment requirements federal supersedes
state, but in operation rules states can be more proscriptive if they
choose.
In Georgia, the main difference in a class A and a class 1 boat is a
higher registration fee (A=$15 1=$36). As John says, in GA, boats
under 12 ft without engine or sail do not even require registration.
This is true in Mass. for boats under 14ft without motors.
The link for Massechusetts boating regs and registration:
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dle/boatregfaq.htm
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dle/boatreginfo.htm
originally defined in the federal Motorboat Act of 1940.
They are
class A = less than 16 ft
class 1 = 16 feet and over, less than 26 feet
class 2 = 26 feet and over, less than 40 feet
class 3 = 40 feet and over
As John Bell pointed out, how each state chooses to apply safety regs
based on these classes varies, but there are few federal regulation
differences between class A and class 1 boats. It is my
understanding that in equipment requirements federal supersedes
state, but in operation rules states can be more proscriptive if they
choose.
In Georgia, the main difference in a class A and a class 1 boat is a
higher registration fee (A=$15 1=$36). As John says, in GA, boats
under 12 ft without engine or sail do not even require registration.
This is true in Mass. for boats under 14ft without motors.
The link for Massechusetts boating regs and registration:
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dle/boatregfaq.htm
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dle/boatreginfo.htm
Well, if the boat is big enough, you can get USCG registration, which
means you don't have to register it with your state.
I have NO idea what the cutoff is on that. Anybody?
Now mind you, you might still have to pay 'use' tax, depending on what
state you are in, and depending on how long the boat is in the water..
Pays to look it up.
means you don't have to register it with your state.
I have NO idea what the cutoff is on that. Anybody?
Now mind you, you might still have to pay 'use' tax, depending on what
state you are in, and depending on how long the boat is in the water..
Pays to look it up.
--- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> Depends on where you are. Here in Georgia, human powered craft are
exempt
> from regulation, sailboats over 12' must be registered and under 12' are
> exempt. All motor powered craft are subject to regulation regardless of
> size. One of the reasons that the newest sailboat on my drawing
board is 11'
> 11" is just to beat the tax man!
>
> Having an exempt craft can be a problem however. Most states recognize
> another states registration for visits of short duration. However,
if I take
> my exempt rowboat to Illinois, they have a specific statute that
says if my
> boat is not required to carry registration numbers from my state, I am
> required to purchase one from them. Or else I have to get off the
water...
> (And as anti-government as I am, you can imagine this sticks in my
craw!)
>
> So if you plan to travel with your exempt boat, beware.
Registration, even
> if not required can save you some hassle. ...Although one wonders if
I just
> stuck on some random numbers when out of state wouldn't solve the tax
> collector harassment problem?
>
> The short answer is to find out what your local government requires.
>
Depends on where you are. Here in Georgia, human powered craft are exempt
from regulation, sailboats over 12' must be registered and under 12' are
exempt. All motor powered craft are subject to regulation regardless of
size. One of the reasons that the newest sailboat on my drawing board is 11'
11" is just to beat the tax man!
Having an exempt craft can be a problem however. Most states recognize
another states registration for visits of short duration. However, if I take
my exempt rowboat to Illinois, they have a specific statute that says if my
boat is not required to carry registration numbers from my state, I am
required to purchase one from them. Or else I have to get off the water...
(And as anti-government as I am, you can imagine this sticks in my craw!)
So if you plan to travel with your exempt boat, beware. Registration, even
if not required can save you some hassle. ...Although one wonders if I just
stuck on some random numbers when out of state wouldn't solve the tax
collector harassment problem?
The short answer is to find out what your local government requires.
JB
from regulation, sailboats over 12' must be registered and under 12' are
exempt. All motor powered craft are subject to regulation regardless of
size. One of the reasons that the newest sailboat on my drawing board is 11'
11" is just to beat the tax man!
Having an exempt craft can be a problem however. Most states recognize
another states registration for visits of short duration. However, if I take
my exempt rowboat to Illinois, they have a specific statute that says if my
boat is not required to carry registration numbers from my state, I am
required to purchase one from them. Or else I have to get off the water...
(And as anti-government as I am, you can imagine this sticks in my craw!)
So if you plan to travel with your exempt boat, beware. Registration, even
if not required can save you some hassle. ...Although one wonders if I just
stuck on some random numbers when out of state wouldn't solve the tax
collector harassment problem?
The short answer is to find out what your local government requires.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <DougCulhane@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: [bolger] Regulations (size)
| I'm planning a boat, and in more than one place I saw a reference to
| 16 ft. as being some decisive cut off in how boats are registered and
| regulated. The boat I want to build is 16'3", but if that's going to
| throw me into a whole other realm of regulations I can adapt it to
| 15'-11". The state I'm concerned with is Massachusetts. I couldn't
| find Massachusetts boat regs on the web so any info would be
| appreciated. Thanks, Doug
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
I'm planning a boat, and in more than one place I saw a reference to
16 ft. as being some decisive cut off in how boats are registered and
regulated. The boat I want to build is 16'3", but if that's going to
throw me into a whole other realm of regulations I can adapt it to
15'-11". The state I'm concerned with is Massachusetts. I couldn't
find Massachusetts boat regs on the web so any info would be
appreciated. Thanks, Doug
16 ft. as being some decisive cut off in how boats are registered and
regulated. The boat I want to build is 16'3", but if that's going to
throw me into a whole other realm of regulations I can adapt it to
15'-11". The state I'm concerned with is Massachusetts. I couldn't
find Massachusetts boat regs on the web so any info would be
appreciated. Thanks, Doug