Re: Sail design programs and Tyvek sails

The white material is polytarp but of a superior quality, tight weave
and the weave is filled properly to make the surface smooth. I
highly recommend it.

Steve Bosquette

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for that. I was thinkng the awlful blue tarps.
> What is the white material?
>
> --- sneakeasy2000@y... wrote:
> I must disagree on the poly tarp being a step
> backwards. I bought a 
> kit from Dave Gray at Polysails for my schooner.
> I chose to stitch 
> the sails but I found the material of excellent quality
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Build your own website in minutes and for free at
http://ca.geocities.com

Greg Carlson has shareware sail design at

http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Professional_Shareware

R Laine has a free sail design program at

http://www.sailcut.com

It includes chinese lug (junk) design

You can get good Tyvek at

http://www.intothewind.com

And last but not least try John K's site for the following Tyvek
sailmaking advice.

http://www.boat-links.com/Tyvek/

And for Poly tarp sails there is

http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/article.htm

Plus all the article's on Jim Michalak's site about sails.

If you dig into all the above site's, you will as ready as any of us to
build cheap (in cost) homemade sails.

HJ
thomas dalzell wrote:

>
> Is there any freeware for designing your own sails.
> In general, it would be great if there were a program
> that would allow one to design simple sails like those
> Bolger rigs use. For instance if I built Eek, it has
> a little 24 square foot sail that would hold up my
> getting her in the water next week. But if I knew how
> to cut the panels, I could lay out something in tyvek,
> or sew my own. I also have some sail borad sails, but
> I would need to re-cut them.
>
> Also, on Tyvek, I bought a new roll this year,
> something I do every five years or so whether I need
> to or not. I noticed the new stuff isn't that
> randomised spun fiber, flatened into a sheet, It is
> more like a mosquito neting pressed onto a thin sheet.
> It is also has a brittle feeling, and makes an
> astounding amount of noise, when it slats around.
> What are people using for cheap sails (poly tarps
> strike me as a step backwards the ones we get arround
> here aren't all that nice).
>
>

Thank you
--- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

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Thanks for that. I was thinkng the awlful blue tarps.
What is the white material?

---sneakeasy2000@...wrote:
I must disagree on the poly tarp being a step
backwards. I bought a 
kit from Dave Gray at Polysails for my schooner.
I chose to stitch 
the sails but I found the material of excellent quality

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com

Good point, as regards Eeek, anyway, I should be
looking at what canoe sails are made of.
---jamesjjstumpf@...wrote:

<HR>
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<tt>
If you are not afraid to do a little sewing I have had
good luck with ripstop 
nylon sold at the local fabric store. Light, easy to
work with and has held 
up for the first season. I made a 40 sqft lateen for a
canoe that I built 2 
years ago. 
 
Jim Stumpf 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 



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Hi Tom
Gregg carlson has a freeware sail design program -
www.carlsondesign.com
I must disagree on the poly tarp being a step backwards. I bought a
kit from Dave Gray at Polysails for my schooner. I chose to stitch
the sails but I found the material of excellent quality. The results
were sails that set well and had excellent abrasion resistance.
Dave' site:http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/index.htm
If you search Google type in "polytarp+sails".
Hope this helps!

Steve Bosquette

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> Is there any freeware for designing your own sails.
> In general, it would be great if there were a program
> that would allow one to design simple sails like those
> Bolger rigs use. For instance if I built Eek, it has
> a little 24 square foot sail that would hold up my
> getting her in the water next week. But if I knew how
> to cut the panels, I could lay out something in tyvek,
> or sew my own. I also have some sail borad sails, but
> I would need to re-cut them.
>
> Also, on Tyvek, I bought a new roll this year,
> something I do every five years or so whether I need
> to or not. I noticed the new stuff isn't that
> randomised spun fiber, flatened into a sheet, It is
> more like a mosquito neting pressed onto a thin sheet.
> It is also has a brittle feeling, and makes an
> astounding amount of noise, when it slats around.
> What are people using for cheap sails (poly tarps
> strike me as a step backwards the ones we get arround
> here aren't all that nice).
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Build your own website in minutes and for free at
http://ca.geocities.com

I've been using Jim's technique too. It's pretty easy to get the shape you
want by cutting darts here and there. Jim's technique gets a lot easier if
you take the time to learn to use a CAD program to pick off the measurements
and plot out the expanded shape.

Getting the shape you want is the easy part, getting the RIGHT shape is
another question altogether. For the ones I've been fooling around with,
I've been putting in about 10% draft at about 33% of the span.

JB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Farquhar" <pongo19050@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 10:15 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sail design programs and Tyvek sails

| I've used the method in Jim Michalak's website for sharpie sprit
| sails and lugs. I get my tyvek from a kite supply company (Into the
| Wind?) The tyvek that I get from them is less crackly and more like
| sailcloth. The tyvek held up well as a 65 sq. ft. lugsail for my
| canoe until an unfortunate encounter with a bridge last August.
|
| Regards
|
| Andy Farquhar
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

I've used the method in Jim Michalak's website for sharpie sprit
sails and lugs. I get my tyvek from a kite supply company (Into the
Wind?) The tyvek that I get from them is less crackly and more like
sailcloth. The tyvek held up well as a 65 sq. ft. lugsail for my
canoe until an unfortunate encounter with a bridge last August.

Regards

Andy Farquhar

If you are not afraid to do a little sewing I have had good luck with ripstop
nylon sold at the local fabric store. Light, easy to work with and has held
up for the first season. I made a 40 sqft lateen for a canoe that I built 2
years ago.

Jim Stumpf

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there any freeware for designing your own sails.
In general, it would be great if there were a program
that would allow one to design simple sails like those
Bolger rigs use. For instance if I built Eek, it has
a little 24 square foot sail that would hold up my
getting her in the water next week. But if I knew how
to cut the panels, I could lay out something in tyvek,
or sew my own. I also have some sail borad sails, but
I would need to re-cut them.

Also, on Tyvek, I bought a new roll this year,
something I do every five years or so whether I need
to or not. I noticed the new stuff isn't that
randomised spun fiber, flatened into a sheet, It is
more like a mosquito neting pressed onto a thin sheet.
It is also has a brittle feeling, and makes an
astounding amount of noise, when it slats around.
What are people using for cheap sails (poly tarps
strike me as a step backwards the ones we get arround
here aren't all that nice).

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com

It isn't my view that water ballast doesn't work, but
I was just suggesting that its location may affect how
positive the results are, and that its effect may not
have been as positive as was hoped in some of these
designs. Once you start prescribing sponsons, things
are getting desperate.

I am toying with the idea of building an Eeek model.
I don't think I could be comfortable in the standard
model, but perhaps if I built it to Anhinga's
proprotions, I would fit in. I am not sure what it
would prove, but it might be interesting.

I think you would have to put two 16" planers in
Anhinga to get her to her waterlines.

I certainly don't buy the idea that water ballast is
only for righting, and that form stability governs
sail carrying. Form stability doesn't exist without
weight, multihull designers have had to learn that the
hard way. A 30' trimaran that is 30' wide, but weighs
nothing, has no stability. Abviously you can carry
more sail at the same weight with a beam of 30' than
16', but you still need weight. Water ballast is
weight.

Before I build Anhinga, I may do a spreadsheet on all
her weights, and try and figure out where the 2400# is
suposed to come from. Sure if you sail off to tahiti,
there might be a lot of stores, but for just
daysailing, and light cruising, it would look like
this: Boat 400-600# (to be determined), the four of
us with our camping gear 500#, 400# freshwater
ballast. That is 1300-1500#, we need another 900 from
something.

My other concern is can they get enough weight in
these boats, to sink them to the point where they pick
up the water ballast (I think the answer is yes). The
Gougeons are masters of water ballast, and I can
garantee you they use it to carry sail. They have
derived simple methods of powering water into the
hulls with little forward mounted scoops, and little
reaward mounted drain scoops. The problem for Anhinga
is that if you can't sail her fast without ballast you
can't power the water in, and there isn't a provision
for a motor (not a problem as designed, I am just
envisioning a more agresive water ballast program).

I'm not pesimistic about Anhinga at all. If there are
possible solutions, then the whole project looks more
promising than if there aren't.

By the way, what do you all think about this boat not
being reefable?

---StepHydro@...wrote:

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<tt>
In a message dated 11/23/2001 3:<BR30:<BR34
AM 
Eastern Standard ,bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:

> It is only the water ballasted ones that

have the problems of knock down. 
 
Anyone had stability problems with Michalak's water
ballasted boats? I've 
used my Scram Pram only as a mottor launch so far, but
Tim and Wil, the 
builders, sailed her quite a bit and mentioned no
problems. They turned her 
down intentionally, but had to pull her down by the
halyard to get her over. 
 
The design has the water ballast only in the central
part, lenghtwise, of the 
boat, and quite a bit out from the centerline. There
is a roughly 30cm 
section down the center like a footwell, that has no
ballast tank. 
 
Cheers/Carron 
"LABOR SVGIT" 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


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In a message dated 11/23/2001 3:<BR30:<BR34 AM
Eastern Standard ,bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:

> It is only the water ballasted ones that have the problems of knock down.

Anyone had stability problems with Michalak's water ballasted boats? I've
used my Scram Pram only as a mottor launch so far, but Tim and Wil, the
builders, sailed her quite a bit and mentioned no problems. They turned her
down intentionally, but had to pull her down by the halyard to get her over.

The design has the water ballast only in the central part, lenghtwise, of the
boat, and quite a bit out from the centerline. There is a roughly 30cm
section down the center like a footwell, that has no ballast tank.

Cheers/Carron
"LABOR SVGIT"