Re: [bolger] Re: USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
In a message dated 12/5/01 10:33:42 AM Central Standard Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
"Or maybe they > just hate rowboats and love canoes. ..."
The omission of canoes AND ALL SAILBOATS (perhaps my post wasn't clear on
this), from the basic flotation standard is interesting, but I don't think it
was the result of machinations of evil-minded bureaucrats. I can think of
some technical issues with canoes. Most ballasted sailboats probably could
not comply with a floatation requirement without wholesale compromises in
other functions. This exemption may be, at least in part, attributable to
lobbying or comments by the Traditional Small Craft Association and others.
In any case, the regulation doesn't apply to sailboats. So you are free to
add flotation to craft of the exempt types or not, as you please. (Having
capsized, turtled, pitchpoled and sunk small sailing craft (never all on the
same occassion, mind you!) on more occassions than do me any credit for
judgement or skill, I'm partial to boats that float after disaster!)
(power boats less than 20' in length) is overly difficult. I did some quick
and dirty calculations on Bolger's Diablo, as featured in Payson's "Build The
New Instant Boats". Bolger specifies a maximum 25hp long-shaft motor and 2
cu. ft. of flotation on either side near the motor (4 cu. ft. total).
CAVEAT!!! I haven't checked these numbers and anyone who places any reliance
on them is a bigger fool than me (and also agreed to be bound by the
invisible "terms of use, disclaimer of warranties and waiver of remedies"
hidden in this message by merely reading it.)
I take Diablo as 15.5' L.O.A., 4.8' beam at transom, transom height 19.5"
(Bolger quotation in text) or 18 7/8" (my reading of the drawings). (decimal
fractions of feet, per pamphlet)
This gives a "safe powering" "factor" (page 3) of "74". Using the formula
for a "flat-bottomed, hard-chine outboard" with transom height less than 20"
and w/o remote steering (p.6), the U.S.C.G. "maximum safe horsepower" is ...
....25hp!!! (Can we be certain that this is only a coincidence?)
I can't calculating the "basic flotation" required (the method described
requires rather drastic trials with the completed boat), but, interpolating
from other info in the pamphlet, the 4.0 cu. ft. specified seems likely to be
in compliance as well. (Can we be certain this is only a coincidence?)
While the quote from Bolger in Payson's book specifically states that the
transom should not be cut down, cutting it down does not decrease the
U.S.C.G. maximum safe horsepower rating - so you could defy the designer (at
your own peril) and use a short- or standard-shaft lower unit (as some have
done) and still be U.S.C.G. "legal". Whether the hull design of Diablo is
properly classified as "flat-bottomed, hard-chined" in the U.S.C.G.
regulatory scheme is perhaps questionable. The type illustrated conforms to
the cross-section of a jonboat or "flat-iron" skiff. If Diablo's shape might
properly be assigned to the "other conventional" category, which seems
reasonable from a design standpoint, the maximum safe horsepower rating rises
to 35hp. (was Bolger conservative?, is the U.S.C.G. profligate? did Bolger
cover his ass by using the "worst case scenario" re: regulations?)
If the transom height were increased to 20" and you added remote steering,
60hp would be "legal"! (ZOOOM!) Somewhere on the internet there is a website
from a fellow who installed remote steering and a powerful Mercury outboard,
identified by model number rather than horsepower. He evidently spends as
much time airborne as waterborne, but if his motor is no more (!) than 60hp,
(and his transom height 20") he'd need only a little, perhaps no, additional
flotation to meet the "safe maximum power" and "basic flotation"
requirements. (there is an example in the "level floation" section that
indicates that 3.0 cu. ft. floatation is adequate to float the weight of a
60hp motor.)
"P.P.S. Sorry for the rant, you've touched on one of my sore subjects."
No apology necessary! I do find the notion that I may (or may not) have to
comply with the regulations or, what seems at least, if not more, onerous,
the labeling and certification requirements, at the cost of what, if any
penalties, under what circumstances, objectionable.
By all means "rant-on". (When Ashcroft comes to get you, I'll subscribe to
your legal defense fund if your crimes are no more heinious than operating
non-U.S.C.G. approved watercraft. :-)
Very Verbosely Yours,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lincolnr@...writes:
"Or maybe they > just hate rowboats and love canoes. ..."
The omission of canoes AND ALL SAILBOATS (perhaps my post wasn't clear on
this), from the basic flotation standard is interesting, but I don't think it
was the result of machinations of evil-minded bureaucrats. I can think of
some technical issues with canoes. Most ballasted sailboats probably could
not comply with a floatation requirement without wholesale compromises in
other functions. This exemption may be, at least in part, attributable to
lobbying or comments by the Traditional Small Craft Association and others.
In any case, the regulation doesn't apply to sailboats. So you are free to
add flotation to craft of the exempt types or not, as you please. (Having
capsized, turtled, pitchpoled and sunk small sailing craft (never all on the
same occassion, mind you!) on more occassions than do me any credit for
judgement or skill, I'm partial to boats that float after disaster!)
>I'm not sure that conformity to the standards for the main covered class
> "I suspect that Bolger feels the same way, judging
> by some of his other writing. ... ....I probably can't make my boats
> conform entirely ..."
(power boats less than 20' in length) is overly difficult. I did some quick
and dirty calculations on Bolger's Diablo, as featured in Payson's "Build The
New Instant Boats". Bolger specifies a maximum 25hp long-shaft motor and 2
cu. ft. of flotation on either side near the motor (4 cu. ft. total).
CAVEAT!!! I haven't checked these numbers and anyone who places any reliance
on them is a bigger fool than me (and also agreed to be bound by the
invisible "terms of use, disclaimer of warranties and waiver of remedies"
hidden in this message by merely reading it.)
I take Diablo as 15.5' L.O.A., 4.8' beam at transom, transom height 19.5"
(Bolger quotation in text) or 18 7/8" (my reading of the drawings). (decimal
fractions of feet, per pamphlet)
This gives a "safe powering" "factor" (page 3) of "74". Using the formula
for a "flat-bottomed, hard-chine outboard" with transom height less than 20"
and w/o remote steering (p.6), the U.S.C.G. "maximum safe horsepower" is ...
....25hp!!! (Can we be certain that this is only a coincidence?)
I can't calculating the "basic flotation" required (the method described
requires rather drastic trials with the completed boat), but, interpolating
from other info in the pamphlet, the 4.0 cu. ft. specified seems likely to be
in compliance as well. (Can we be certain this is only a coincidence?)
While the quote from Bolger in Payson's book specifically states that the
transom should not be cut down, cutting it down does not decrease the
U.S.C.G. maximum safe horsepower rating - so you could defy the designer (at
your own peril) and use a short- or standard-shaft lower unit (as some have
done) and still be U.S.C.G. "legal". Whether the hull design of Diablo is
properly classified as "flat-bottomed, hard-chined" in the U.S.C.G.
regulatory scheme is perhaps questionable. The type illustrated conforms to
the cross-section of a jonboat or "flat-iron" skiff. If Diablo's shape might
properly be assigned to the "other conventional" category, which seems
reasonable from a design standpoint, the maximum safe horsepower rating rises
to 35hp. (was Bolger conservative?, is the U.S.C.G. profligate? did Bolger
cover his ass by using the "worst case scenario" re: regulations?)
If the transom height were increased to 20" and you added remote steering,
60hp would be "legal"! (ZOOOM!) Somewhere on the internet there is a website
from a fellow who installed remote steering and a powerful Mercury outboard,
identified by model number rather than horsepower. He evidently spends as
much time airborne as waterborne, but if his motor is no more (!) than 60hp,
(and his transom height 20") he'd need only a little, perhaps no, additional
flotation to meet the "safe maximum power" and "basic flotation"
requirements. (there is an example in the "level floation" section that
indicates that 3.0 cu. ft. floatation is adequate to float the weight of a
60hp motor.)
"P.P.S. Sorry for the rant, you've touched on one of my sore subjects."
No apology necessary! I do find the notion that I may (or may not) have to
comply with the regulations or, what seems at least, if not more, onerous,
the labeling and certification requirements, at the cost of what, if any
penalties, under what circumstances, objectionable.
By all means "rant-on". (When Ashcroft comes to get you, I'll subscribe to
your legal defense fund if your crimes are no more heinious than operating
non-U.S.C.G. approved watercraft. :-)
Very Verbosely Yours,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's a problem with word wrapping of the message. Go to the "Files"
section of this group and look in the folder titled "Registration and
Legalities."
I just got the registration for my AF4 in the mail today after two
months of waiting. Here in Georgia at least, they assigned me a HIN.
They did not give any guidlelines for putting the HIN on the boat
though. I guess I'll refer to the USCG regs for that.
section of this group and look in the folder titled "Registration and
Legalities."
I just got the registration for my AF4 in the mail today after two
months of waiting. Here in Georgia at least, they assigned me a HIN.
They did not give any guidlelines for putting the HIN on the boat
though. I guess I'll refer to the USCG regs for that.
--- In bolger@y..., "Don Theobald" <DONTHEOBALD@H...> wrote:
> John,
>
> Tried to follow the link below to USCG Reg. with no luck, error
message
> stated, "file not found".
>
> Would like to read, can you help?
>
> Don*****
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bell [mailto:jmbell@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:35 PM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: Re: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
>
>
> The pamphlet has been posted in the files here for quite a while.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Registration%20and%
20Legalities/U
> SCG_Safety_Standards_for_Backyard_Boat_Builders.pdf
>
> As for getting a copy, all it took was a phone call to the USCG
who
> emailed
> it to me within minutes of asking.
>
> JB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wmrpage@a...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:41 PM
> Subject: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
>
>
> | I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01
> | newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations
about "maximum
> | safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
> | posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a
free copy
> | of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication
number
> | COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published
August
> | 24, 1998)
> |
> | Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be
difficult
> | to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
> | received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have
given
> | up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
> | of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S.
Dept. of
> | Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,
> | Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
> | which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
> | someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with
the
> | precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
> | pamphlet's availability.)
> |
> | I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or
insight
> | into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
> | that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
> |
> | "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting
little
> | pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
> | surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats
less
> | than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled
auxilary
> | power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation
standards
> | and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of
20'
> | l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
> | ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
> | placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
> | flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
> | compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
> | sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and
canoes,
> | among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
> | with "basic" flotation!)
> |
> | The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for
dummies-
> | (consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of
Federal
> | Regulations for details)".
> |
> | According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including
sailboats,
> | canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently
fixed "Hull
> | Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet
lists
> | various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.
> |
> | I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
> | Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I
built
> | the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of
the
> | Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I
never
> | applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and none
> | appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a
space
> | for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but
makes
> | me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to these
> | U.S.C.G. regulations?
> |
> | The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations'
jurisdiction.
> | Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
> | CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the
operator's
> | position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
> | backround for certain portions.
> |
> | I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I
have
> | run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
> | reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard
Chapelle
> | this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated
when he
> | was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others
still
> | alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
> | important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an
indication
> | of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any
experience
> | in this matter?
> |
> | Ciao for Niao,
> | Bill in MN
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> | - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
you like
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John,
Tried to follow the link below to USCG Reg. with no luck, error message
stated, "file not found".
Would like to read, can you help?
Don*****
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bell [mailto:jmbell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:35 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
The pamphlet has been posted in the files here for quite a while.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Registration%20and%20Legalities/U
SCG_Safety_Standards_for_Backyard_Boat_Builders.pdf
As for getting a copy, all it took was a phone call to the USCG who
emailed
it to me within minutes of asking.
JB
Tried to follow the link below to USCG Reg. with no luck, error message
stated, "file not found".
Would like to read, can you help?
Don*****
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bell [mailto:jmbell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:35 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
The pamphlet has been posted in the files here for quite a while.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Registration%20and%20Legalities/U
SCG_Safety_Standards_for_Backyard_Boat_Builders.pdf
As for getting a copy, all it took was a phone call to the USCG who
emailed
it to me within minutes of asking.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <wmrpage@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
| I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01
| newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations about "maximum
| safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
| posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free copy
| of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication number
| COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published August
| 24, 1998)
|
| Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be difficult
| to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
| received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have given
| up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
| of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S. Dept. of
| Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,
| Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
| which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
| someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with the
| precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
| pamphlet's availability.)
|
| I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or insight
| into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
| that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
|
| "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting little
| pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
| surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats less
| than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled auxilary
| power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation standards
| and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of 20'
| l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
| ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
| placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
| flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
| compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
| sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and canoes,
| among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
| with "basic" flotation!)
|
| The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for dummies-
| (consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of Federal
| Regulations for details)".
|
| According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including sailboats,
| canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hull
| Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet lists
| various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.
|
| I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
| Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I built
| the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of the
| Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I never
| applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and none
| appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a space
| for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but makes
| me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to these
| U.S.C.G. regulations?
|
| The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations' jurisdiction.
| Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
| CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
| position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
| backround for certain portions.
|
| I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I have
| run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
| reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard Chapelle
| this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when he
| was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others still
| alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
| important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an indication
| of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any experience
| in this matter?
|
| Ciao for Niao,
| Bill in MN
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think what the unconscious attempt here may be is to get anyone who
isn't doing something extremely vanilla into legal hot water so they
don't have to show signs of consideration or having a brain when
dealing with those pesky people who don't conform. Or maybe they
just hate rowboats and love canoes. I bet if they wrote the regs the
other way that there would be a lot more rowboats and a lot less
drowned idiots. Not sure if that's a good thing. On the other hand, I
have never been stopped by the Coast Guard. If I was, I guess I'd have
to cut up my boat(s) and throw them away. Maybe they wouldn't make me
do it if I carried a small, battery operated TV, preferably turned to
the football game. I suspect that Bolger feels the same way, judging
by some of his other writing.
I probably can't make my boats conform entirely: one was built by
someone else with no HIN, and the other two were projects taken over
from someone else. I haven't taken pictures or kept receipts. Now that
Carnivore is in operation, I expect a knock on my door within days.
We need to have an ethic that any law which serves no good purpose is
automatically a bad thing in and of itself. I think most of us know
that the majority of boating accidents have something to do with
intoxication, idiocy, or internal combustion. Not sure you can
legislate effectively against those, so let's clamp down on those
dangerous rowboats.
Let's just hope our hobby isn't linked to A* Q****. Can you imagine if
a Payson brochure had been found in one of the apartment searches?
P.S. I read the booklet a while back and it's just too much trouble
for something that doesn't contribute to safety. If I need flotation,
I will add it, but I won't jump through all those hoops.
P.P.S. Sorry for the rant, you've touched on one of my sore subjects.
isn't doing something extremely vanilla into legal hot water so they
don't have to show signs of consideration or having a brain when
dealing with those pesky people who don't conform. Or maybe they
just hate rowboats and love canoes. I bet if they wrote the regs the
other way that there would be a lot more rowboats and a lot less
drowned idiots. Not sure if that's a good thing. On the other hand, I
have never been stopped by the Coast Guard. If I was, I guess I'd have
to cut up my boat(s) and throw them away. Maybe they wouldn't make me
do it if I carried a small, battery operated TV, preferably turned to
the football game. I suspect that Bolger feels the same way, judging
by some of his other writing.
I probably can't make my boats conform entirely: one was built by
someone else with no HIN, and the other two were projects taken over
from someone else. I haven't taken pictures or kept receipts. Now that
Carnivore is in operation, I expect a knock on my door within days.
We need to have an ethic that any law which serves no good purpose is
automatically a bad thing in and of itself. I think most of us know
that the majority of boating accidents have something to do with
intoxication, idiocy, or internal combustion. Not sure you can
legislate effectively against those, so let's clamp down on those
dangerous rowboats.
Let's just hope our hobby isn't linked to A* Q****. Can you imagine if
a Payson brochure had been found in one of the apartment searches?
P.S. I read the booklet a while back and it's just too much trouble
for something that doesn't contribute to safety. If I need flotation,
I will add it, but I won't jump through all those hoops.
P.P.S. Sorry for the rant, you've touched on one of my sore subjects.
--- In bolger@y..., "jfries_15108" <jfries_15108@m...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
> > I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01
> > newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations
> about "maximum
> > safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
> > posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free
> copy
> > of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", snip
> >
> > I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or
> insight
> > into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
> > that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
> >
> > "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting
> little
> > pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
> > surface of its peculiarities.
snip
"rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
> > flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
> > compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
> > sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and
canoes,
> > among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
> > with "basic" flotation!)
> >
> > The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for
dummies-
> > (consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of
Federal
> > Regulations for details)".
> >
> > According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including
> sailboats,
> > canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hull
> > Identification Number"
snip
> >
> > The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations'
> jurisdiction.
> > Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
> > CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
> > position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
> > backround for certain portions.
> >
> > I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I
have
> > run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
> > reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard
Chapelle
> > this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when
> he
> > was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others
> still
> > alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
> > important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an
indication
> > of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any
experience
> > in this matter?
> >
> > Ciao for Niao,
> > Bill in MN
>
snip
--- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
not receive a plate. However, I made my on H.I.N. plate and attached
it to the boat. Have no idea what good it does, but I figured I
would comply with the regs.
> I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01about "maximum
> newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations
> safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a priorcopy
> posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free
> of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication numberAugust
> COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published
> 24, 1998)of
>
> Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be difficult
> to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
> received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have given
> up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
> of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S. Dept.
> Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,insight
> Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
> which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
> someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with the
> precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
> pamphlet's availability.)
>
> I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or
> into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boatslittle
> that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
>
> "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting
> pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches theauxilary
> surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats less
> than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled
> power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation standardssailboats,
> and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of 20'
> l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
> ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
> placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
> flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
> compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
> sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and canoes,
> among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
> with "basic" flotation!)
>
> The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for dummies-
> (consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of Federal
> Regulations for details)".
>
> According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including
> canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hulllists
> Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet
> various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.built
>
> I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
> Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I
> the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of thenever
> Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I
> applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and nonemakes
> appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a space
> for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but
> me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to thesejurisdiction.
> U.S.C.G. regulations?
>
> The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations'
> Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUMhe
> CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
> position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
> backround for certain portions.
>
> I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I have
> run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
> reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard Chapelle
> this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when
> was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or othersstill
> alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this isI live in PA and received a H.I.N. with the title to my Gypsy. I did
> important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an indication
> of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any experience
> in this matter?
>
> Ciao for Niao,
> Bill in MN
not receive a plate. However, I made my on H.I.N. plate and attached
it to the boat. Have no idea what good it does, but I figured I
would comply with the regs.
The pamphlet has been posted in the files here for quite a while.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Registration%20and%20Legalities/U
SCG_Safety_Standards_for_Backyard_Boat_Builders.pdf
As for getting a copy, all it took was a phone call to the USCG who emailed
it to me within minutes of asking.
JB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Registration%20and%20Legalities/U
SCG_Safety_Standards_for_Backyard_Boat_Builders.pdf
As for getting a copy, all it took was a phone call to the USCG who emailed
it to me within minutes of asking.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <wmrpage@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] USCG Regulations for "Backyard Boatbuilders"
| I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01
| newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations about "maximum
| safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
| posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free copy
| of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication number
| COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published August
| 24, 1998)
|
| Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be difficult
| to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
| received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have given
| up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
| of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S. Dept. of
| Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,
| Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
| which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
| someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with the
| precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
| pamphlet's availability.)
|
| I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or insight
| into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
| that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
|
| "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting little
| pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
| surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats less
| than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled auxilary
| power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation standards
| and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of 20'
| l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
| ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
| placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
| flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
| compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
| sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and canoes,
| among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
| with "basic" flotation!)
|
| The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for dummies-
| (consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of Federal
| Regulations for details)".
|
| According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including sailboats,
| canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hull
| Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet lists
| various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.
|
| I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
| Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I built
| the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of the
| Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I never
| applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and none
| appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a space
| for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but makes
| me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to these
| U.S.C.G. regulations?
|
| The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations' jurisdiction.
| Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
| CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
| position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
| backround for certain portions.
|
| I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I have
| run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
| reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard Chapelle
| this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when he
| was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others still
| alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
| important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an indication
| of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any experience
| in this matter?
|
| Ciao for Niao,
| Bill in MN
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
I followed a link from a prior posting to Michalak's 01Dec01
newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations about "maximum
safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free copy
of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication number
COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published August
24, 1998)
Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be difficult
to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have given
up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S. Dept. of
Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with the
precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
pamphlet's availability.)
I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or insight
into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
"Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting little
pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats less
than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled auxilary
power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation standards
and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of 20'
l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and canoes,
among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
with "basic" flotation!)
The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for dummies-
(consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of Federal
Regulations for details)".
According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including sailboats,
canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hull
Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet lists
various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.
I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I built
the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of the
Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I never
applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and none
appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a space
for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but makes
me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to these
U.S.C.G. regulations?
The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations' jurisdiction.
Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
backround for certain portions.
I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I have
run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard Chapelle
this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when he
was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others still
alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an indication
of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any experience
in this matter?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
newsletter where he dicusses the U.S.C.G. regulations about "maximum
safe horsepower" for outboard powered boats. There was a prior
posting on this e-group with instructions on how to order a free copy
of "Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders", publication number
COMDTPUB P16761.3B.(superseding COMDTPUB P16761.3A, published August
24, 1998)
Michalak gives the impression that the publication may be difficult
to obtain. I followed the instructions in the prior posting and
received my free copy of the pamphlet in about a week. I have given
up on trying to locate the original posting. (My! We are a bunch
of "chatty Cathy's"!) The return address on my copy is: U.S. Dept. of
Transportation, United States Coast Guard, 2100 Second St. S.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20593-0001. I don't know if this is the address
which was given in the posting. I think not, so it might behoove
someone less lazy than me to locate the original posting with the
precise address. (I have e-mailed Michalak to advise him of the
pamphlet's availability.)
I am curious as to whether any members have any experience or insight
into the application of these U.S.C.G. regulations to boats
that "Bolgeristas" might be interested in.
"Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders" is an interesting little
pamphlet, and Michalak's current newsletter only scratches the
surface of its peculiarities. It mainly applies to powerboats less
than 20' in length. (sailboats with internal gasoline-fueled auxilary
power need to comply to fuel, electrical and ventilation standards
and carry a compliance "certification" placard; powerboats of 20'
l.o.a. or greater need to comply with fuel, electrical and
ventilation standards and carry a compliance "certification"
placard; "rowboats" need to comply to to safe loading and safe
flotation standards, and carry a "capacity label" and
compliance "certification" placard.)(Oddly enough, inter alia,
sailboats (w/o internal gasoline-fueled auxilary power) and canoes,
among other "exempt" classes, are not required to be equipped
with "basic" flotation!)
The pamphlet might be plausibly be titled "regulations for dummies-
(consult Subchapter S of Chapter 1, Title 33 of the Code of Federal
Regulations for details)".
According to the pamphlet, all "backyard" boats, including sailboats,
canoes and other "exempt" craft, require a permanently fixed "Hull
Identification Number" in two places on the boat. The pamphlet lists
various state agencies which issue said "H.I.N."'s.
I have in front of me a Minnesota Department of Natural
Resources "Watercraft License" for a "backyard-built" canoe. I built
the canoe with advice provided by publications and members of the
Minnesota Canoe Association. (a very fine organization, BTW) I never
applied for and never received a "H.I.N." for the craft and none
appears on the license("make" is listed as "HOME", there is a space
for "Hull I.D., but no entry). This proves nothing at all, but makes
me wonder - which "backyard-built" boats are subject to these
U.S.C.G. regulations?
The pamphlet is silent on the scope of the regulations' jurisdiction.
Some of the requirements are pretty stringent, i.e. a "MAXIMUM
CAPACITIES" label, to be permanently attached "near the operator's
position" with certain minimum dimensions and a yellow colored
backround for certain portions.
I am curious. None of the "backyard" boatbuilding literature I have
run across(not an insubstantial body of literature)makes any
reference to this regulatory scheme. In the case of Howard Chapelle
this is understandable - the regulations weren't promulgated when he
was alive. In the case of Bolger, or Payson or Glen-L or others still
alive and active, one might expect a reference or two if this is
important. Can the silence on the subject be taken as an indication
of its triviality? Have any of the "Bolgeristas" had any experience
in this matter?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN