Re: On topic vs. off topic.
It could be pointed out that discussions of whether the topics
discussed are on topic or off topic, is itself off topic...
<big grin>
discussed are on topic or off topic, is itself off topic...
<big grin>
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> Please don't take this wrong...
>
> I just did an quick tally of the last 30 messages and 26 were
> discussions of boat issues, but only two were actually about
*Bolger*
> boat issues.
>
> Although I appreciate the talk about boats in general, what I
really
> look for here is more information and commentary about Bolger
boats.
> For instance, I could easily see this group holding discussions
each
> week about the Bolger article in Messin' About In Boats magazine.
>
> Personally, I found his design of the river jet boat a few weeks
ago
> to be mind boggling! Once again he thumbs his nose at conventional
> wisdom.
>
> And, his 60' double folding schooner is eccentric genius. Did
> anybody else notice his suggestion/wish that some enthusiasts
should
> get together to actually follow through and build one of these? If
> that group of people is not on this list, I don't know where they
> would be!
>
> He wrote that this schooner would sail faster than many boats
costing
> in excess of not one, but two orders of magnitude. Wow! That
makes
> me laugh just to think about it. When I showed that design to
> my "yacht style" sailing buddy last weekend [after being dumbstruck
> for a minute or two], all he could say was "heresy", and then he
> added that if you were actually win a race in that boat you would
be
> unlikely to be asked out for the post race drinks.
I have been waiting patiently for a reply to questions because I'm
curious aswell. I don't think the forward angle iron??? is attached
to the wing or else it would not pivot properly, I think it is
something to strengthen the board because of your already mentioned
lack of strength. I also believe that is the case with the aft angle
iron??? If it is indeed angle iron, I agree something should be down
to far it in or reduce the resistance. Now you mentioned the hollow
board; at first glance I thought the pivoting mechanizm was on the out
side of the board. This would make the need for some farring even
greater but generally I am still find the concept intriguing.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
curious aswell. I don't think the forward angle iron??? is attached
to the wing or else it would not pivot properly, I think it is
something to strengthen the board because of your already mentioned
lack of strength. I also believe that is the case with the aft angle
iron??? If it is indeed angle iron, I agree something should be down
to far it in or reduce the resistance. Now you mentioned the hollow
board; at first glance I thought the pivoting mechanizm was on the out
side of the board. This would make the need for some farring even
greater but generally I am still find the concept intriguing.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
> Why not hook it to a winch or hydralicThis keel was designed as a retrofit into a boat with a low interior
> cylinder and have a purely vertical lift that would eliminate the
> pivoting rod (less parts equal less breakage) and shorten the
> centreboard box to boot?
that was already hard to get around in. I think they wanted to avoid
making it any harder.
PHV
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
force vectors work complementarily as the angle of the keel changes.
There are several other things that confuse me about this keel, and I
don't think I can understand with only a side view to work with. I
tried to pencil out an aft view and a plan view on the sketch which I
uploaded to URL:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wingkeel.jpgIf you
are willing please look at this and tell me what I have guessed wrong.
The lead casting would be completely slotted down the middle for the
majority of its length, and the only thing holding the two halves
together would be a relatively thin piece at the aft end.
There are a several lines on the side view which don't make sense to
me, can anybody guess what they are? Could they be angle iron steel
shapes, if so they don't seem very streamline. Is the keel shaft
made of plywood?
Also, I would imagine that the upper/forward pivot pin at the bottom
of the hull would be subject to high stress from the keel trying to
bend in the side to side direction. Bolger probably has some idea
how to counter this stress, but I can't seem to figure it out.
Imagine the boat laying on its side, the moment arm of the keel under
the force of gravity would want to rip it off from the bottom of the
boat at that forward attachment pin. It seems like a similar
condition would develop when the boat heels.
> Yes, it looks really good. Why not hook it to a winch or hydralicI think Bolger's dual cable winch geometry is clever because the
> cylinder and have a purely vertical lift that would eliminate the
force vectors work complementarily as the angle of the keel changes.
There are several other things that confuse me about this keel, and I
don't think I can understand with only a side view to work with. I
tried to pencil out an aft view and a plan view on the sketch which I
uploaded to URL:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wingkeel.jpgIf you
are willing please look at this and tell me what I have guessed wrong.
The lead casting would be completely slotted down the middle for the
majority of its length, and the only thing holding the two halves
together would be a relatively thin piece at the aft end.
There are a several lines on the side view which don't make sense to
me, can anybody guess what they are? Could they be angle iron steel
shapes, if so they don't seem very streamline. Is the keel shaft
made of plywood?
Also, I would imagine that the upper/forward pivot pin at the bottom
of the hull would be subject to high stress from the keel trying to
bend in the side to side direction. Bolger probably has some idea
how to counter this stress, but I can't seem to figure it out.
Imagine the boat laying on its side, the moment arm of the keel under
the force of gravity would want to rip it off from the bottom of the
boat at that forward attachment pin. It seems like a similar
condition would develop when the boat heels.
Then, what happens when you run aground?
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> Yes, it looks really good. Why not hook it to a winch or hydralic
> cylinder and have a purely vertical lift that would eliminate the
> pivoting rod (less parts equal less breakage) and shorten the
> centreboard box to boot?
>
> Bruce Hector
Yes, it looks really good. Why not hook it to a winch or hydralic
cylinder and have a purely vertical lift that would eliminate the
pivoting rod (less parts equal less breakage) and shorten the
centreboard box to boot?
Bruce Hector
cylinder and have a purely vertical lift that would eliminate the
pivoting rod (less parts equal less breakage) and shorten the
centreboard box to boot?
Bruce Hector
This is a very interesting keel. I have often thought of using
something like this on a multihull and changing the angle of attack on
the windward/leeward boards winglet as the wind picked up. I think
the risk of capsize could be decreased using this idea.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
something like this on a multihull and changing the angle of attack on
the windward/leeward boards winglet as the wind picked up. I think
the risk of capsize could be decreased using this idea.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
Well yes we do get off topic at times but it's all about boats. Preventing Zebra Mussel fouling is a very good hint on how to protect our Bolger boats. I printed it out and filed it under boat paint. I may just have a Bolger boat on the Great Lakes and it was a good tidbit.
In general, I feel anyway, that we do tend to stay on topic but a bit of diversion is not all bad either. This board is about Bolger boats and should include things associated his boats. Toilets, bottom paint, epoxy, etc. are just a few of the things included in building and enjoying a Boger Boat.
He's a hero to us boat builders in designing capable, inexpensive, and easy to build boats. The information I've gained on this group is indispensable to myself and I'm sure to many others.
Jeff (#25)
In general, I feel anyway, that we do tend to stay on topic but a bit of diversion is not all bad either. This board is about Bolger boats and should include things associated his boats. Toilets, bottom paint, epoxy, etc. are just a few of the things included in building and enjoying a Boger Boat.
He's a hero to us boat builders in designing capable, inexpensive, and easy to build boats. The information I've gained on this group is indispensable to myself and I'm sure to many others.
Jeff (#25)
----- Original Message -----
From: roue20ca
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:43 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: On topic vs. off topic.
I understand were you are coming from, I often find the topics
completely of topic; Preventing Zebra Mussel Fouling, Don't look
down.....Take 3, Anti Virus... These are of interest to sailors of
course but not on topic. Having said that the description for this
group is Bolger and Bolger like boats. So how do you define Bolger
like boats; I have been looking at designers like Karl Stambaugh, Jim
Michalak, Parker and yes James Wharram (I think he is the Bolger of
multihulls).
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is a scan of a folding wing keel in Files. Look under
Foils, boards, rudders, keels
then
Wingkeel
then
mfmod1
I think the original post was Gary Blankenship, but I'm terrible on
names. Does the fact that the entry doesn't seem to have an author
mean he has left the group?
Peter
Foils, boards, rudders, keels
then
Wingkeel
then
mfmod1
I think the original post was Gary Blankenship, but I'm terrible on
names. Does the fact that the entry doesn't seem to have an author
mean he has left the group?
Peter
I understand were you are coming from, I often find the topics
completely of topic; Preventing Zebra Mussel Fouling, Don't look
down.....Take 3, Anti Virus... These are of interest to sailors of
course but not on topic. Having said that the description for this
group is Bolger and Bolger like boats. So how do you define Bolger
like boats; I have been looking at designers like Karl Stambaugh, Jim
Michalak, Parker and yes James Wharram (I think he is the Bolger of
multihulls).
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
completely of topic; Preventing Zebra Mussel Fouling, Don't look
down.....Take 3, Anti Virus... These are of interest to sailors of
course but not on topic. Having said that the description for this
group is Bolger and Bolger like boats. So how do you define Bolger
like boats; I have been looking at designers like Karl Stambaugh, Jim
Michalak, Parker and yes James Wharram (I think he is the Bolger of
multihulls).
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
The Nov.15 2001 issue [V19/#13] called "Wolfpack 24"
See low res scan at URL:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wolfpack.jpg
My favorite quote in the article is "Having never even though about
what he was talking about until his letters, we nevertheless though
we could help him..."
See low res scan at URL:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wolfpack.jpg
My favorite quote in the article is "Having never even though about
what he was talking about until his letters, we nevertheless though
we could help him..."
--- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
> I missed the Jet one, What issue number?
I missed the Jet one, What issue number?
I was waiting for somebody to comment on the Super Folder, I guess I
should have.
He mentions that somebody else was getting set to try out the
retractable winged keel idea. I am pretty sure they are either on the
group or used to be because I remember some comments on it.
Will the guilty party speak up and give a progress report?
HJ
I was waiting for somebody to comment on the Super Folder, I guess I
should have.
He mentions that somebody else was getting set to try out the
retractable winged keel idea. I am pretty sure they are either on the
group or used to be because I remember some comments on it.
Will the guilty party speak up and give a progress report?
HJ
>
> Personally, I found his design of the river jet boat a few weeks ago
> to be mind boggling! Once again he thumbs his nose at conventional
> wisdom.
>
> And, his 60' double folding schooner is eccentric genius. Did
> anybody else notice his suggestion/wish that some enthusiasts should
> get together to actually follow through and build one of these? If
> that group of people is not on this list, I don't know where they
> would be!
>
> He wrote that this schooner would sail faster than many boats costing
> in excess of not one, but two orders of magnitude. Wow! That makes
> me laugh just to think about it. When I showed that design to
> my "yacht style" sailing buddy last weekend [after being dumbstruck
> for a minute or two], all he could say was "heresy", and then he
> added that if you were actually win a race in that boat you would be
> unlikely to be asked out for the post race drinks.
>
Please don't take this wrong...
I just did an quick tally of the last 30 messages and 26 were
discussions of boat issues, but only two were actually about *Bolger*
boat issues.
Although I appreciate the talk about boats in general, what I really
look for here is more information and commentary about Bolger boats.
For instance, I could easily see this group holding discussions each
week about the Bolger article in Messin' About In Boats magazine.
Personally, I found his design of the river jet boat a few weeks ago
to be mind boggling! Once again he thumbs his nose at conventional
wisdom.
And, his 60' double folding schooner is eccentric genius. Did
anybody else notice his suggestion/wish that some enthusiasts should
get together to actually follow through and build one of these? If
that group of people is not on this list, I don't know where they
would be!
He wrote that this schooner would sail faster than many boats costing
in excess of not one, but two orders of magnitude. Wow! That makes
me laugh just to think about it. When I showed that design to
my "yacht style" sailing buddy last weekend [after being dumbstruck
for a minute or two], all he could say was "heresy", and then he
added that if you were actually win a race in that boat you would be
unlikely to be asked out for the post race drinks.
I just did an quick tally of the last 30 messages and 26 were
discussions of boat issues, but only two were actually about *Bolger*
boat issues.
Although I appreciate the talk about boats in general, what I really
look for here is more information and commentary about Bolger boats.
For instance, I could easily see this group holding discussions each
week about the Bolger article in Messin' About In Boats magazine.
Personally, I found his design of the river jet boat a few weeks ago
to be mind boggling! Once again he thumbs his nose at conventional
wisdom.
And, his 60' double folding schooner is eccentric genius. Did
anybody else notice his suggestion/wish that some enthusiasts should
get together to actually follow through and build one of these? If
that group of people is not on this list, I don't know where they
would be!
He wrote that this schooner would sail faster than many boats costing
in excess of not one, but two orders of magnitude. Wow! That makes
me laugh just to think about it. When I showed that design to
my "yacht style" sailing buddy last weekend [after being dumbstruck
for a minute or two], all he could say was "heresy", and then he
added that if you were actually win a race in that boat you would be
unlikely to be asked out for the post race drinks.