Re: Martha Jane for sale.
Folks
Sadly it's time for me to part ways with the Pelican. For details contact me directly. I'm in North East PA
( Admin : If this is a violation of the groups policy, please delete.
Leigh Ross
Leigh Ross
484-464-1575 (C)
Susanne, are plans available for Wyoming and if so, how much are they?
Patrick A. Connor
President, Old Republic National Title Services, Inc.
T: 614.341.1900 | C: 614.208.9308 | F: 813.514.1924| ShoreTel: 13502
pconnor@...
Old Republic National Title Insurance Company | Old Republic Insurance Group
3000 Bayport Drive | Suite 1000 | Tampa, FL 33607-8402
Important Notice: The information contained in this email is private and confidential. It is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. If you are not named above or are not an agency of the recipient(s), then you have received this email in error, and to review, distribute or copy this transmission or its attachment(s) is strictly prohibited by federal law. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by email immediately. If you are the proper recipient and this email contains "protected health information," you must abide by the rules of the HIPAA and other privacy laws that apply. Thank you for your attention to this notice.
In a message dated 17-07-02 12:03:28 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
electrical current. Try immersing a piece of aluminum in a bucket of salt
water together with a piece of copper (or a cupro-nickel coin). The
dissimilar metals produce their own electrical current as the aluminum is
eaten away.
Crocodile hunters had to be very careful not to leave brass shell casings in
the bottom of their aluminum dinghies, else the brass would very quickly
corrode a hole in the bottom.
Howard
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boatbuilding@...writes:
> . All the outboard connections are insulated fromBut electrolytic corrosion can happen without any external source of
> the boat except for the battery and it's isolated from the hull.
electrical current. Try immersing a piece of aluminum in a bucket of salt
water together with a piece of copper (or a cupro-nickel coin). The
dissimilar metals produce their own electrical current as the aluminum is
eaten away.
Crocodile hunters had to be very careful not to leave brass shell casings in
the bottom of their aluminum dinghies, else the brass would very quickly
corrode a hole in the bottom.
Howard
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, except that solar chargers are very high in price for a liveaboard set
up and the outboard would have to run for hours and hours to do a full
charge with just 20 amp alternators.
Jeff
up and the outboard would have to run for hours and hours to do a full
charge with just 20 amp alternators.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "brucehector" <bruce_hector@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
> Wouldn't this all be eliminated by keeping your batteries charged
> with the combination of a rooftop photo electric array and an
> alternator on the engine?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Wouldn't this all be eliminated by keeping your batteries charged
with the combination of a rooftop photo electric array and an
alternator on the engine?
with the combination of a rooftop photo electric array and an
alternator on the engine?
>ya
> I may be missing something here, but would this not represent a serious
> shock hazard if, say, someone were in the water for whatever reason and
> chose to grab onto your outboard for support while you are plugged into
> shore power? I realize marinas are not the best places to swim, but still
> never know....I can't agree more. And it happens, especially with plastic boats. One
needs to be well grounded through the plug or better yet, use an insolation
transformer. A battery on the outboard is generally the cause of the
potential to be there and if it's a stand alone to the outboard and not
connected to the boats electrical system, it should not pose any hazzards to
people.
Jeff
You would solve this by using a marine-grade isolation transformer in
the shore power line. Problem with GFIs is that even a slight film of
salt will trip the unit, making it impractical for coastal users. If
the boat is wired following accepted (ABYC) standards, the AC and DC
grounds will be common. Most boat suppliers (West, BoatUS, etc) carry
some sort of isolation transformer.
I worked on the bottom of a large wooden Chris many years ago, and found
out the shafts and props were leaking AC voltage by crawling into them
on damp soil. I think I''ve still got the bump on my head....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: rnlocnil [mailto:lincolnr@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:22 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
Seems like either the 12V out of the charger will be isolated by the
transformer, or else the negative will be at AC ground. If AC wiring
at marina and in boat are correct, then if you plug it in the right
way it should be safe. If the wiring is not correct or if you plug it
in the wrong way, that's another story. I used to live in a studio
apartment and had a hot plate which needed to be plugged in the right
way. Otherwise if you touched the hot plate and the refrigerator at
the same time you would be in for a surprise. Seems like any marina
should be using GFI in any case, but who knows. I've seen some strange
voltages on floating grounds in houses before, no reason to think it
wouldn't happen in a marina. WOuld some kind of GFI on the boat help?
the shore power line. Problem with GFIs is that even a slight film of
salt will trip the unit, making it impractical for coastal users. If
the boat is wired following accepted (ABYC) standards, the AC and DC
grounds will be common. Most boat suppliers (West, BoatUS, etc) carry
some sort of isolation transformer.
I worked on the bottom of a large wooden Chris many years ago, and found
out the shafts and props were leaking AC voltage by crawling into them
on damp soil. I think I''ve still got the bump on my head....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: rnlocnil [mailto:lincolnr@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:22 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
Seems like either the 12V out of the charger will be isolated by the
transformer, or else the negative will be at AC ground. If AC wiring
at marina and in boat are correct, then if you plug it in the right
way it should be safe. If the wiring is not correct or if you plug it
in the wrong way, that's another story. I used to live in a studio
apartment and had a hot plate which needed to be plugged in the right
way. Otherwise if you touched the hot plate and the refrigerator at
the same time you would be in for a surprise. Seems like any marina
should be using GFI in any case, but who knows. I've seen some strange
voltages on floating grounds in houses before, no reason to think it
wouldn't happen in a marina. WOuld some kind of GFI on the boat help?
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
snip
> I may be missing something here, but would this not represent a
serious
> shock hazard if, say, someone were in the water for whatever reason
and
> chose to grab onto your outboard for support while you are plugged
into
> shore power? I realize marinas are not the best places to swim, but
still ya
> never know....
>
> Paul L.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1155069/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039
-302>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Excellent points! Keep us posted on the SPD situation.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:08 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
and
wears away very slowly is exposed. Supposedly the thickness and the
fact
that it's installed on top of epoxy/cloth insulates it from stray
currents.
Now if you where to ground directly to it, say with a through hull, the
spot
of the grounding could corrode away for about 6 inches but the
resistance
builds dramatically with distance.
ground
but would have a potential so to say but without a path, no corrosion
would
occur. When lowered, the Zincs will protect it for the most part.
the
time. As to the internals, I'll have to rely on manufactures knowing
how to
deal with it I guess. A jaunt into fresh water or flushing regularly
would
be a big help. Unless an inboard has the closed loop cooling, same
problems
exist. I'll be in fresh water 50% of the time too.
My only experience here is with my fishing boat. It draws about 8
inches of
water and the 15" - 40 HP Evinrude will lift clear at least 6 inches.
I'm
hoping with a 20" transom the Wyo's outboards will do the same.
BTW, I just got a phone call from the SPD drive people. They are
putting a
lower power unit together and are looking for a several test boats.
They
seem interested in the flat bottom of the Wyo and the fact I can still
tweak
the transom angle. We'll see.......
Jeff
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039
-302>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:08 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
> 1) If the copper is insulated, how does it provide any significantOnly the surface that has been scrubbed (at least once every 3 months)
> antifouling?
and
wears away very slowly is exposed. Supposedly the thickness and the
fact
that it's installed on top of epoxy/cloth insulates it from stray
currents.
Now if you where to ground directly to it, say with a through hull, the
spot
of the grounding could corrode away for about 6 inches but the
resistance
builds dramatically with distance.
> 2) If you are using an AC battery charger dockside, you do realize youYes, if it's lowered into the water. Raised, it would not provide a
> will in all probability be at the AC ground potential through your
> outboard?
ground
but would have a potential so to say but without a path, no corrosion
would
occur. When lowered, the Zincs will protect it for the most part.
>I'm not sure I'll put on antifouling paint if they are rainsed 90% of
> 3) Antifouling may protect exposed surfaces (be SURE to use TBT-based
> AF), but what about the internal intake and exhaust channels?
the
time. As to the internals, I'll have to rely on manufactures knowing
how to
deal with it I guess. A jaunt into fresh water or flushing regularly
would
be a big help. Unless an inboard has the closed loop cooling, same
problems
exist. I'll be in fresh water 50% of the time too.
> I agree with SA: OBs are great if you can tilt them out completely.Good idea!
> Otherwise, IME, you have a liability waiting to strike. I'm with
> Howard; don't mean to stoke the paranoia fires, but you may want to
> check the tilt angle.
My only experience here is with my fishing boat. It draws about 8
inches of
water and the 15" - 40 HP Evinrude will lift clear at least 6 inches.
I'm
hoping with a 20" transom the Wyo's outboards will do the same.
BTW, I just got a phone call from the SPD drive people. They are
putting a
lower power unit together and are looking for a several test boats.
They
seem interested in the flat bottom of the Wyo and the fact I can still
tweak
the transom angle. We'll see.......
Jeff
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1155070/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039
-302>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Seems like either the 12V out of the charger will be isolated by the
transformer, or else the negative will be at AC ground. If AC wiring
at marina and in boat are correct, then if you plug it in the right
way it should be safe. If the wiring is not correct or if you plug it
in the wrong way, that's another story. I used to live in a studio
apartment and had a hot plate which needed to be plugged in the right
way. Otherwise if you touched the hot plate and the refrigerator at
the same time you would be in for a surprise. Seems like any marina
should be using GFI in any case, but who knows. I've seen some strange
voltages on floating grounds in houses before, no reason to think it
wouldn't happen in a marina. WOuld some kind of GFI on the boat help?
transformer, or else the negative will be at AC ground. If AC wiring
at marina and in boat are correct, then if you plug it in the right
way it should be safe. If the wiring is not correct or if you plug it
in the wrong way, that's another story. I used to live in a studio
apartment and had a hot plate which needed to be plugged in the right
way. Otherwise if you touched the hot plate and the refrigerator at
the same time you would be in for a surprise. Seems like any marina
should be using GFI in any case, but who knows. I've seen some strange
voltages on floating grounds in houses before, no reason to think it
wouldn't happen in a marina. WOuld some kind of GFI on the boat help?
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
snip
> I may be missing something here, but would this not represent a
serious
> shock hazard if, say, someone were in the water for whatever reason
and
> chose to grab onto your outboard for support while you are plugged
into
> shore power? I realize marinas are not the best places to swim, but
still ya
> never know....
>
> Paul L.
>I may be missing something here, but would this not represent a serious
> > 2) If you are using an AC battery charger dockside, you do realize you
> > will in all probability be at the AC ground potential through your
> > outboard?
>
> Yes, if it's lowered into the water. Raised, it would not
> provide a ground
> but would have a potential so to say but without a path, no
> corrosion would
> occur. When lowered, the Zincs will protect it for the most part.
shock hazard if, say, someone were in the water for whatever reason and
chose to grab onto your outboard for support while you are plugged into
shore power? I realize marinas are not the best places to swim, but still ya
never know....
Paul L.
> 1) If the copper is insulated, how does it provide any significantOnly the surface that has been scrubbed (at least once every 3 months) and
> antifouling?
wears away very slowly is exposed. Supposedly the thickness and the fact
that it's installed on top of epoxy/cloth insulates it from stray currents.
Now if you where to ground directly to it, say with a through hull, the spot
of the grounding could corrode away for about 6 inches but the resistance
builds dramatically with distance.
> 2) If you are using an AC battery charger dockside, you do realize youYes, if it's lowered into the water. Raised, it would not provide a ground
> will in all probability be at the AC ground potential through your
> outboard?
but would have a potential so to say but without a path, no corrosion would
occur. When lowered, the Zincs will protect it for the most part.
>I'm not sure I'll put on antifouling paint if they are rainsed 90% of the
> 3) Antifouling may protect exposed surfaces (be SURE to use TBT-based
> AF), but what about the internal intake and exhaust channels?
time. As to the internals, I'll have to rely on manufactures knowing how to
deal with it I guess. A jaunt into fresh water or flushing regularly would
be a big help. Unless an inboard has the closed loop cooling, same problems
exist. I'll be in fresh water 50% of the time too.
> I agree with SA: OBs are great if you can tilt them out completely.Good idea!
> Otherwise, IME, you have a liability waiting to strike. I'm with
> Howard; don't mean to stoke the paranoia fires, but you may want to
> check the tilt angle.
My only experience here is with my fishing boat. It draws about 8 inches of
water and the 15" - 40 HP Evinrude will lift clear at least 6 inches. I'm
hoping with a 20" transom the Wyo's outboards will do the same.
BTW, I just got a phone call from the SPD drive people. They are putting a
lower power unit together and are looking for a several test boats. They
seem interested in the flat bottom of the Wyo and the fact I can still tweak
the transom angle. We'll see.......
Jeff
Jeff,
Three questions:
1) If the copper is insulated, how does it provide any significant
antifouling?
2) If you are using an AC battery charger dockside, you do realize you
will in all probability be at the AC ground potential through your
outboard?
3) Antifouling may protect exposed surfaces (be SURE to use TBT-based
AF), but what about the internal intake and exhaust channels?
I agree with SA: OBs are great if you can tilt them out completely.
Otherwise, IME, you have a liability waiting to strike. I'm with
Howard; don't mean to stoke the paranoia fires, but you may want to
check the tilt angle.
Yours in BBB,
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:03 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
One of the reasons for outboards according to S.A. is that they can be
lifted free of the water to avoid corrosion. With good zinc protection
,
I'm hoping for the best. All the outboard connections are insulated
from
the boat except for the battery and it's isolated from the hull.
Supposedly
the copper and epoxy coating has very little conductivity. No through
hulls
in the boat, at least under the waterline.
Jeff
Three questions:
1) If the copper is insulated, how does it provide any significant
antifouling?
2) If you are using an AC battery charger dockside, you do realize you
will in all probability be at the AC ground potential through your
outboard?
3) Antifouling may protect exposed surfaces (be SURE to use TBT-based
AF), but what about the internal intake and exhaust channels?
I agree with SA: OBs are great if you can tilt them out completely.
Otherwise, IME, you have a liability waiting to strike. I'm with
Howard; don't mean to stoke the paranoia fires, but you may want to
check the tilt angle.
Yours in BBB,
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:03 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
One of the reasons for outboards according to S.A. is that they can be
lifted free of the water to avoid corrosion. With good zinc protection
,
I'm hoping for the best. All the outboard connections are insulated
from
the boat except for the battery and it's isolated from the hull.
Supposedly
the copper and epoxy coating has very little conductivity. No through
hulls
in the boat, at least under the waterline.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <stephensonhw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
> In a message dated 16-07-02 8:11:23 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
>boatbuilding@...writes:
>
>
> > I ordered 10 lbs of the powder copper from epoxy products. I'll try
mixing
> > it at 5 lbs per gallon
>
> Just to feed your paranoia (not that I'm making an accusation) and
perhaps
to
> answer something I've wondered about for a long time: do you expect
any
> problem with electrolytic corrosion on the parts of the outboard motor
that
> are in the water?
>
> It seems to me that one of the potential problems of outboard motors
on
boats
> not intended to live on a trailer is the risk of corrosion and marine
growth.
>
> Howard
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip>
away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
<http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/le/lensexpress/lensexpress_468x60b.
gif>
Click
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=225674.2075964.3644785.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1153174/R=7/*http://www.lensexpress.com> here to find your
contact lenses!
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the reasons for outboards according to S.A. is that they can be
lifted free of the water to avoid corrosion. With good zinc protection ,
I'm hoping for the best. All the outboard connections are insulated from
the boat except for the battery and it's isolated from the hull. Supposedly
the copper and epoxy coating has very little conductivity. No through hulls
in the boat, at least under the waterline.
Jeff
lifted free of the water to avoid corrosion. With good zinc protection ,
I'm hoping for the best. All the outboard connections are insulated from
the boat except for the battery and it's isolated from the hull. Supposedly
the copper and epoxy coating has very little conductivity. No through hulls
in the boat, at least under the waterline.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <stephensonhw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
> In a message dated 16-07-02 8:11:23 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
>boatbuilding@...writes:
>
>
> > I ordered 10 lbs of the powder copper from epoxy products. I'll try
mixing
> > it at 5 lbs per gallon
>
> Just to feed your paranoia (not that I'm making an accusation) and perhaps
to
> answer something I've wondered about for a long time: do you expect any
> problem with electrolytic corrosion on the parts of the outboard motor
that
> are in the water?
>
> It seems to me that one of the potential problems of outboard motors on
boats
> not intended to live on a trailer is the risk of corrosion and marine
growth.
>
> Howard
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
They make good anti fouling paints and zincs for outdrives/outboards
now.
HJ
stephensonhw@...wrote:
now.
HJ
stephensonhw@...wrote:
>
> In a message dated 16-07-02 8:11:23 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
>boatbuilding@...writes:
>
> > I ordered 10 lbs of the powder copper from epoxy products. I'll try mixing
> > it at 5 lbs per gallon
>
> Just to feed your paranoia (not that I'm making an accusation) and perhaps to
> answer something I've wondered about for a long time: do you expect any
> problem with electrolytic corrosion on the parts of the outboard motor that
> are in the water?
>
> It seems to me that one of the potential problems of outboard motors on boats
> not intended to live on a trailer is the risk of corrosion and marine growth.
>
> Howard
>
>
In a message dated 16-07-02 8:11:23 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
answer something I've wondered about for a long time: do you expect any
problem with electrolytic corrosion on the parts of the outboard motor that
are in the water?
It seems to me that one of the potential problems of outboard motors on boats
not intended to live on a trailer is the risk of corrosion and marine growth.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boatbuilding@...writes:
> I ordered 10 lbs of the powder copper from epoxy products. I'll try mixingJust to feed your paranoia (not that I'm making an accusation) and perhaps to
> it at 5 lbs per gallon
answer something I've wondered about for a long time: do you expect any
problem with electrolytic corrosion on the parts of the outboard motor that
are in the water?
It seems to me that one of the potential problems of outboard motors on boats
not intended to live on a trailer is the risk of corrosion and marine growth.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I ordered 10 lbs of the powder copper from epoxy products. I'll try mixing
it at 5 lbs per gallon. 2 gallons should be enough to coat the entire
bottom of about 400 square feet. I figured I get a large bucket and mix up
a gallon of resin with 5 lbs. copper power, then measure out and mix with
hardener as I use it. That way I can keep mixing it with a paint mixer and
drill to keep it well mixed. I'm also going to add a some cyan pepper to
mix.
Will cost me less than $200 versus $600 for 2 gals of theirs. Should be
just a good.
Jeff
it at 5 lbs per gallon. 2 gallons should be enough to coat the entire
bottom of about 400 square feet. I figured I get a large bucket and mix up
a gallon of resin with 5 lbs. copper power, then measure out and mix with
hardener as I use it. That way I can keep mixing it with a paint mixer and
drill to keep it well mixed. I'm also going to add a some cyan pepper to
mix.
Will cost me less than $200 versus $600 for 2 gals of theirs. Should be
just a good.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
> Jeff
>
> Are you gong to use copperpoxy or mix your own with
>
>http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
>
>
> HJ
>
> This coming weekend I'll tip her up on a side to do the chine and put
> on a bottom coat of copper and
> > epoxy.
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Jeff
Are you gong to use copperpoxy or mix your own with
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
HJ
This coming weekend I'll tip her up on a side to do the chine and put
on a bottom coat of copper and
Are you gong to use copperpoxy or mix your own with
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
HJ
This coming weekend I'll tip her up on a side to do the chine and put
on a bottom coat of copper and
> epoxy.
>
Between relatives, friends, and being very hot this last two weeks, progress
has been slow but I did get the front hatch and entry area finished as well
as all the misc. trim work done. Only thing left for this week is building
the Hatch lid and double doors for the front. This coming weekend I'll tip
her up on a side to do the chine and put on a bottom coat of copper and
epoxy.
Wanted to be done with the front 1/3 by July 15th. but looks like Aug. 1st.
I guess I forgot to add in the ("relatives and friends showing up to stay
unannounced during their Colorado vacation") factor into my time table.
But, life would be boring without them!
Jeff
www.dreamwater.net/cosailor
has been slow but I did get the front hatch and entry area finished as well
as all the misc. trim work done. Only thing left for this week is building
the Hatch lid and double doors for the front. This coming weekend I'll tip
her up on a side to do the chine and put on a bottom coat of copper and
epoxy.
Wanted to be done with the front 1/3 by July 15th. but looks like Aug. 1st.
I guess I forgot to add in the ("relatives and friends showing up to stay
unannounced during their Colorado vacation") factor into my time table.
But, life would be boring without them!
Jeff
www.dreamwater.net/cosailor
We have foam mattresses on solid plywood flats in a cored fiberglass
hull and are liveaboards. We had moisture trapped under the mattresses
until we added a layer of the snap-together ventilated plastic floor
tile available at most large home centers (also from BoatUS and West,
but at marine prices there). It worked.
Trouble with some slatted arrangements I've seen is that they sag under
any reasonable weight over time. I've also seen a synthetic fiber mat
that appears to serve the same function, but my tiles were cheaper.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: thomas dalzell [mailto:proaconstrictor@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
How about some chain link fencing?. That should air
out the matresses nicely
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book
_Voyaging on a Small <BR>
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted,
partially open, to <BR>
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the
mattress. Solid <BR>
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow
according to her [and <BR>
my wife agrees].
______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hull and are liveaboards. We had moisture trapped under the mattresses
until we added a layer of the snap-together ventilated plastic floor
tile available at most large home centers (also from BoatUS and West,
but at marine prices there). It worked.
Trouble with some slatted arrangements I've seen is that they sag under
any reasonable weight over time. I've also seen a synthetic fiber mat
that appears to serve the same function, but my tiles were cheaper.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: thomas dalzell [mailto:proaconstrictor@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
How about some chain link fencing?. That should air
out the matresses nicely
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book
_Voyaging on a Small <BR>
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted,
partially open, to <BR>
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the
mattress. Solid <BR>
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow
according to her [and <BR>
my wife agrees].
______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Jeff, I like the boat you're building but I have a problemI wished I could build it all in one piece inside but it is not
> with
> building them outside. I bought these plans for a large work
> shed and they are the best, inexpensive and sturdy shed you
> can build period! I skinned mine with 1/8" ply and hung
> some fluorescent lights. You can also cover them with
> plastic heavy mill clear sheeting and have the greenhouse
> with all the light but I prefer to not show all my tools
> and work to the world.
>
available. I don't live in a neighborhood that allows sheds.
The boat is built inside in three complete pieces, only
assembled on the driveway. I have permission from the
neighbors and will ask again before I assemble just in case. I
have other places I can put the three pieces together.
For me anyway, it's all about convienience. If I where to rent
a large space to work on the Wyo it would add a lot of time. I
know myself well enough that since it's not a step out into the
garage to work on the boat, maybe tommorrow. It would add a
lot of build time on the project for me anyway.
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
building them outside. I bought these plans for a large work shed and
they are the best, inexpensive and sturdy shed you can build period!
I skinned mine with 1/8" ply and hung some fluorescent lights. You
can also cover them with plastic heavy mill clear sheeting and have
the greenhouse with all the light but I prefer to not show all my
tools and work to the world.
Here is the link to buy the plans. I would like to build an Illinois
and luckily you can make these sheds as long as you want and they are
very tall. With a few supports I know mine could handle a second
story no problem.
John
http://www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/bowroof.html
> I just updated my website at www.dreamwater.net/cosailor and addedsome
> photos.thing
>
> I've had a fairly large number of private request asking what this
> will cost so I have put a page up that I'll try and keep updated.See the
> link at the bottom of the first page.going for a
>
> No two people will build the same boat for the same cost. I'm
> little more comfort than PB&F envision for this boat so my costwill be
> higher.Jeff, I like the boat you're building but I have a problem with
>
> Jeff
building them outside. I bought these plans for a large work shed and
they are the best, inexpensive and sturdy shed you can build period!
I skinned mine with 1/8" ply and hung some fluorescent lights. You
can also cover them with plastic heavy mill clear sheeting and have
the greenhouse with all the light but I prefer to not show all my
tools and work to the world.
Here is the link to buy the plans. I would like to build an Illinois
and luckily you can make these sheds as long as you want and they are
very tall. With a few supports I know mine could handle a second
story no problem.
John
http://www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/bowroof.html
Bruce's idea for berth flats looks great. Unfortunately, it's too late
for me. I already made my berths. I rearranged the settee berths so they
were opposite each other. This made the dresser smaller, but I gained
another locker aft starboard. The berth backs are piano hinged to the
berth flats which can be pulled together inboard meeting at the
centerline. The berths are cantilevered. The backs then flip down and
fill the outboard space vacated. The backrest cushions fill the area
outboard of the berth cushions. The result is a KING SIZED
bed/playpen/whatever.
I've read the advice about requiring ventilation under the mattress. I
have cruised for several years on a plastic sailboat with solid berth
flats -- not ventilated at all underneath. There has hever been any
moisture in or under the cushions. Plenty on the overhead from
condensation, however. That is why I insulated between the flat ceiling
and cambered roof on my Dakota. I do have good ventilation below the
berth flats, but not between the flats and the cushions (fingers
crossed). If ventilation under the cusions does turn out to be
necessary, I guess I'll have to modified the berths later.
Bolger drew two June Bugs carried on top as tenders for the "window
cruiser" version of Dakota. So there should be room for about six
Tortoises.
Vince Chew
for me. I already made my berths. I rearranged the settee berths so they
were opposite each other. This made the dresser smaller, but I gained
another locker aft starboard. The berth backs are piano hinged to the
berth flats which can be pulled together inboard meeting at the
centerline. The berths are cantilevered. The backs then flip down and
fill the outboard space vacated. The backrest cushions fill the area
outboard of the berth cushions. The result is a KING SIZED
bed/playpen/whatever.
I've read the advice about requiring ventilation under the mattress. I
have cruised for several years on a plastic sailboat with solid berth
flats -- not ventilated at all underneath. There has hever been any
moisture in or under the cushions. Plenty on the overhead from
condensation, however. That is why I insulated between the flat ceiling
and cambered roof on my Dakota. I do have good ventilation below the
berth flats, but not between the flats and the cushions (fingers
crossed). If ventilation under the cusions does turn out to be
necessary, I guess I'll have to modified the berths later.
Bolger drew two June Bugs carried on top as tenders for the "window
cruiser" version of Dakota. So there should be room for about six
Tortoises.
Vince Chew
How about some chain link fencing?. That should air
out the matresses nicely
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book
_Voyaging on a Small <BR>
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted,
partially open, to <BR>
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the
mattress. Solid <BR>
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow
according to her [and <BR>
my wife agrees].
______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE!http://personals.yahoo.ca
out the matresses nicely
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book
_Voyaging on a Small <BR>
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted,
partially open, to <BR>
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the
mattress. Solid <BR>
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow
according to her [and <BR>
my wife agrees].
______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE!http://personals.yahoo.ca
The Wyo is designed with constant air flow from Stem to Stern. Some of the
air is divided and follows the intercoastals which make up parts of the
berths, dinettes, head, shower, etc.
The slats sound easier but the plywood berth tops are put there to partially
support the sides. Only a small sections open up for access to below. I
assume they are designed that way as part of the overall structural support
to keep the side panels stiffer.
Jeff
air is divided and follows the intercoastals which make up parts of the
berths, dinettes, head, shower, etc.
The slats sound easier but the plywood berth tops are put there to partially
support the sides. Only a small sections open up for access to below. I
assume they are designed that way as part of the overall structural support
to keep the side panels stiffer.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "brucehallman" <brucehallman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:36 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > I just updated my website at www.dreamwater.net/cosailor and added
>
> You write there: "some 3/8" ACX left over from the Tennessee. Ill use
> these for the berth tops"...
>
> I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book _Voyaging on a Small
> Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted, partially open, to
> allow some air flow to the bottom side of the mattress. Solid
> plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow according to her [and
> my wife agrees]. The classic way to achieve this is to have the
> berth tops be made of 1x6 board slats spaced on 11" centers more or
> less.
>
> Taking this idea further, as a scheme to fit a double bed in Dakota,
> you could have these slats interlace, and expand them at bedtime.
> Flip the single berth pads 90 degrees and have a "slideout" type
> double bed. Like:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Dakota/berths.gif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
these for the berth tops"...
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book _Voyaging on a Small
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted, partially open, to
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the mattress. Solid
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow according to her [and
my wife agrees]. The classic way to achieve this is to have the
berth tops be made of 1x6 board slats spaced on 11" centers more or
less.
Taking this idea further, as a scheme to fit a double bed in Dakota,
you could have these slats interlace, and expand them at bedtime.
Flip the single berth pads 90 degrees and have a "slideout" type
double bed. Like:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Dakota/berths.gif
> I just updated my website at www.dreamwater.net/cosailor and addedYou write there: "some 3/8" ACX left over from the Tennessee. Ill use
these for the berth tops"...
I recall reading in Annie Hill's excellent book _Voyaging on a Small
Income_ that berth tops are best left slatted, partially open, to
allow some air flow to the bottom side of the mattress. Solid
plywood berth tops don't allow enough air flow according to her [and
my wife agrees]. The classic way to achieve this is to have the
berth tops be made of 1x6 board slats spaced on 11" centers more or
less.
Taking this idea further, as a scheme to fit a double bed in Dakota,
you could have these slats interlace, and expand them at bedtime.
Flip the single berth pads 90 degrees and have a "slideout" type
double bed. Like:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Dakota/berths.gif
I just updated my website at www.dreamwater.net/cosailor and added some
photos.
I've had a fairly large number of private request asking what this thing
will cost so I have put a page up that I'll try and keep updated. See the
link at the bottom of the first page.
No two people will build the same boat for the same cost. I'm going for a
little more comfort than PB&F envision for this boat so my cost will be
higher.
Jeff
photos.
I've had a fairly large number of private request asking what this thing
will cost so I have put a page up that I'll try and keep updated. See the
link at the bottom of the first page.
No two people will build the same boat for the same cost. I'm going for a
little more comfort than PB&F envision for this boat so my cost will be
higher.
Jeff
I tracked down the missing issue, of WB, and in addition looked up
some more references in back issues of Gougeon publications. There
is a lot of stuff there, much of which I don't have the time to
share. A few key points are that the specific gravity of Xynole is
greater than that of Poly, and greater than that of water, so it
won't float, like some of the other knit fabrics.
Here is a description of the knit fabrics from WB: "The problem,
especialy with stretchy sheathing fabrics, is what unrolls as a nice
parallel-sided fabric quickly becomes a wiggly edged monster." There
is a short term learning curve with this stuff that even the
eminently qualified JR Watson couldn't handle on the first project.
Nonetheless they don't make this stuff because it is too difficult to
use in real life (though in fairness I doubt they make it for wooden
boat builders). But the stuff is useable. Pfund provides some
techniques, but none of them sound as simple as glass.
There is also some dodgy info in the WB article. Some acceptance of
manufacturers claims versus testing. There aren't any tests like the
earlier WB article. Defender for instance claims Xynole can absorb a
load eight time greater than fiberglass can, whatever that means,
almost sounds better than carbon fiber, though strangely they don't
make fishing rods out of the stuff. Or maybe they mean an abrasive
load... Pfund is quickly fed-up with Defender's claim that "higher
performance is attained by boats using Xynole as an overlay, because
the slick Xynole surface has less friction" - Things that make you go
Umh!
Pfund makes the claim that impact resistance is good, but that that
is mostly a property of the resin. This is a hard claim to analyse
in the context. Does he mean fibers don't add much, which isn't true
(and I doubt that is what he means), or does he mean it in the sense
of epoxy vs. polyester, which is certainly true. In any case it
isn't clear.
Pfund has some interesting stuff about how nicks in the fabric can
severely weaken the product, for instance he prety much states that
if you cut a square hole in the product, it will crack in the corners.
The Gougeons add at least one interesting fact. They tested
absorbtion by weight of various fabrics. As we mostly know, a good
epoxy glass layer is close to 50/50 by weight. They tried a few of
the knit fabrics including Xynole, and including various combinations
of fabrics, that don't make any sense to me, but are possibly
standard in the laminating industry. A Xynole fabric for instance
that weighs 16.11 oz took up 92.11 oz of epoxy. About SIX TIMES what
glass does (wait a second if I was an epoxy seller, bells would ring,
though not at WEST, those guys are pure, they don't push the knits.
reminds me of the Zappa song about selling double knit suits). In
other words, you could lay up three layers of 20 oz biax, and one
layer 10 oz boat cloth for the resin required to lay up 16.11 oz of
Xynole.
Elsewhere the Gougeons test some Xynole etc... vs glass for impact
resistance for use on a deck. The Knits do well, but the issue isn't
weight or resin comsumption, but how to structure tests to get your
own results, and we don't learn what weights were on test etc, so it
doesn't mean much, except it ballances out some of my negative
comments. I mean I am not claiming the stuff is junk, or shouldn't
be used, just that there are issues that need to be addressed. In
this example the question is what fabric would work best for a boat
in a museum collection, which is probably not the performance or
budget envelope I would be concerned with.
some more references in back issues of Gougeon publications. There
is a lot of stuff there, much of which I don't have the time to
share. A few key points are that the specific gravity of Xynole is
greater than that of Poly, and greater than that of water, so it
won't float, like some of the other knit fabrics.
Here is a description of the knit fabrics from WB: "The problem,
especialy with stretchy sheathing fabrics, is what unrolls as a nice
parallel-sided fabric quickly becomes a wiggly edged monster." There
is a short term learning curve with this stuff that even the
eminently qualified JR Watson couldn't handle on the first project.
Nonetheless they don't make this stuff because it is too difficult to
use in real life (though in fairness I doubt they make it for wooden
boat builders). But the stuff is useable. Pfund provides some
techniques, but none of them sound as simple as glass.
There is also some dodgy info in the WB article. Some acceptance of
manufacturers claims versus testing. There aren't any tests like the
earlier WB article. Defender for instance claims Xynole can absorb a
load eight time greater than fiberglass can, whatever that means,
almost sounds better than carbon fiber, though strangely they don't
make fishing rods out of the stuff. Or maybe they mean an abrasive
load... Pfund is quickly fed-up with Defender's claim that "higher
performance is attained by boats using Xynole as an overlay, because
the slick Xynole surface has less friction" - Things that make you go
Umh!
Pfund makes the claim that impact resistance is good, but that that
is mostly a property of the resin. This is a hard claim to analyse
in the context. Does he mean fibers don't add much, which isn't true
(and I doubt that is what he means), or does he mean it in the sense
of epoxy vs. polyester, which is certainly true. In any case it
isn't clear.
Pfund has some interesting stuff about how nicks in the fabric can
severely weaken the product, for instance he prety much states that
if you cut a square hole in the product, it will crack in the corners.
The Gougeons add at least one interesting fact. They tested
absorbtion by weight of various fabrics. As we mostly know, a good
epoxy glass layer is close to 50/50 by weight. They tried a few of
the knit fabrics including Xynole, and including various combinations
of fabrics, that don't make any sense to me, but are possibly
standard in the laminating industry. A Xynole fabric for instance
that weighs 16.11 oz took up 92.11 oz of epoxy. About SIX TIMES what
glass does (wait a second if I was an epoxy seller, bells would ring,
though not at WEST, those guys are pure, they don't push the knits.
reminds me of the Zappa song about selling double knit suits). In
other words, you could lay up three layers of 20 oz biax, and one
layer 10 oz boat cloth for the resin required to lay up 16.11 oz of
Xynole.
Elsewhere the Gougeons test some Xynole etc... vs glass for impact
resistance for use on a deck. The Knits do well, but the issue isn't
weight or resin comsumption, but how to structure tests to get your
own results, and we don't learn what weights were on test etc, so it
doesn't mean much, except it ballances out some of my negative
comments. I mean I am not claiming the stuff is junk, or shouldn't
be used, just that there are issues that need to be addressed. In
this example the question is what fabric would work best for a boat
in a museum collection, which is probably not the performance or
budget envelope I would be concerned with.
INternational
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, sctree wrote:<BR>
What brand, and what supplier, do people use for high
build primers?<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account"
target=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250_green_april.gif"
alt="" width="300" height="250"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1042587/rand=841805886"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, sctree wrote:<BR>
> After that kicks I'm with you on the very lightsanding and then<BR>
> two-part high build epoxy primer ... which as yousay gives a smooth<BR>
> finish.<BR><BR>
What brand, and what supplier, do people use for high
build primers?<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account"
target=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250_green_april.gif"
![http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250_green_april.gif"](http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250_green_april.gif"){kind=link}
alt="" width="300" height="250"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1042587/rand=841805886"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, sctree wrote:
> After that kicks I'm with you on the very light sanding and thenWhat brand, and what supplier, do people use for high build primers?
> two-part high build epoxy primer ... which as you say gives a smooth
> finish.
In a message dated 4/11/02 9:46:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
pvanderw@...writes:
upstream in the new canal, if memory serves!:)
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pvanderw@...writes:
> A splendid example of the errors involved in Marxist economics. WhatWatched the Chairman break the world 400 meter breast stroke record swimming
> did the people do the next day?
>
upstream in the new canal, if memory serves!:)
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
ft is not bad.
how bad it is.
I am planning on a xynole over fir ply sheathing on a nearly flat
bottom boat sometime next week, so what I'll do is carefully note the
amount of epoxy used and determine the oz per sq. ft. and report in.
Then we'll see how good my memory is.....
Rick
>sq
> I have about 1200 sq. ft. to do on the Wyo. and even at 2 oz. per
ft is not bad.
> You had me worried there for awhile.Please don't go by my numbers. My memory is so bad I usually forget
>
>
> >add a "fill the weave" skim coat
> >that has microballoons and/or microlight using much less epoxy and
> >leaving a nearly finished surface.
>
> This is a new tactic I must try, thanks!
>
> Jeff
how bad it is.
I am planning on a xynole over fir ply sheathing on a nearly flat
bottom boat sometime next week, so what I'll do is carefully note the
amount of epoxy used and determine the oz per sq. ft. and report in.
Then we'll see how good my memory is.....
Rick
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
straight epoxy, and sanding that down.
Expensive, heavier, and extra work.
I still like filling the weave (barely) with a much easier to sand
microlighted or microballooned epoxy (while the underlying epoxied
glass cloth or xynole is still green, getting it as smooth as
possible
with a 12" tapers knife.
After that kicks I'm with you on the very light sanding and then
two-part high build epoxy primer ... which as you say gives a smooth
finish.
Maybe I'm missing something???
Rick
>epoxy.
> The advice given by Jacques Mertens is to fill the cloth with
> Sand just until you begin to see the weave. Then use a hi-buildI don't see the point of filling (or overfilling) the weave with
> primer. Sanding the primer gives the smooth finish. The question of
> sanding glass doesn't really come up.
straight epoxy, and sanding that down.
Expensive, heavier, and extra work.
I still like filling the weave (barely) with a much easier to sand
microlighted or microballooned epoxy (while the underlying epoxied
glass cloth or xynole is still green, getting it as smooth as
possible
with a 12" tapers knife.
After that kicks I'm with you on the very light sanding and then
two-part high build epoxy primer ... which as you say gives a smooth
finish.
Maybe I'm missing something???
Rick
The advice given by Jacques Mertens is to fill the cloth with epoxy.
Sand just until you begin to see the weave. Then use a hi-build
primer. Sanding the primer gives the smooth finish. The question of
sanding glass doesn't really come up.
Sand just until you begin to see the weave. Then use a hi-build
primer. Sanding the primer gives the smooth finish. The question of
sanding glass doesn't really come up.
>The nearly a gallon was for the Diablo. Say 75 sq feet (?), plusI have about 1200 sq. ft. to do on the Wyo. and even at 2 oz. per sq ft is not bad.
>maybe 45 sq ft with a second layer, so that's 120 sq ft. and that was
>really filling the weave. That's what, less than an ounce per sq foot
>(fading memory here).
You had me worried there for awhile.
>add a "fill the weave" skim coatThis is a new tactic I must try, thanks!
>that has microballoons and/or microlight using much less epoxy and
>leaving a nearly finished surface.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And 30 million people starved in the late 60's because they melted the steel in the farm implements,
slightly off topic but a little known incident. Clyde
David Ryan wrote:
slightly off topic but a little known incident. Clyde
David Ryan wrote:
> >> Back when Mao was running China they gave a demo of how manpower
> >was
> >> better than technology. They lined up God knows how many people
> >and
> >> handed them shovels. They dug a 20 mile canal in a few hours.
> >
> >A splendid example of the errors involved in Marxist economics. What
> >did the people do the next day?
>
> The next day? The next day they melted down the shovels to meet the
> province's steel quota!
>
> -D
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I've never had a big problem with Glass itching. Some yes, so maybe I'm not prone to it or not sanding through to it. Anyway, wetting out glass is not hard really. I thin the epoxy to a consistance of say maple syrup, lay the glass on bare plywood and squeegee it around. The thinned epoxy generall all soaks into the wood without bubbles and enough is on the surface to stick the glass down without floating. When it sets up enough that it's barely tacky to the touch, say 4 hours, I lay down a filler coat of epoxy. A couple hours later, I do it again. This usually is all I need to do to get to the "Orange Peel" stage which is fine for my finished look. Light sanding helps knock off the tops of the peel and gives a nice surface for paint.
I'll probably stick with 7 or 8 ounce glass.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll probably stick with 7 or 8 ounce glass.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
The nearly a gallon was for the Diablo. Say 75 sq feet (?), plus
maybe 45 sq ft with a second layer, so that's 120 sq ft. and that was
really filling the weave. That's what, less than an ounce per sq foot
(fading memory here).
xynole down and wet out, using a squeegie to reduce the amount of
epoxy used, then while still tacky add a "fill the weave" skim coat
that has microballoons and/or microlight using much less epoxy and
leaving a nearly finished surface.
This "floating" of xynole has never been a problem when dumping a
puddle of epoxy onto dry xynole and at first lightly and slowly, then
quicker and firmer, spreading of the resin with a squeegie and a
drywall knife (trowel?). Then again I've only done this working "down
hand", but I get nice results.
Rick
> >nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple hours with a >squeegie.poiny skiff is a fair amount of epoxy.
>
> I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a Wyoming. A gallon on a
The nearly a gallon was for the Diablo. Say 75 sq feet (?), plus
maybe 45 sq ft with a second layer, so that's 120 sq ft. and that was
really filling the weave. That's what, less than an ounce per sq foot
(fading memory here).
>The going theme for xyonel is that it takes a lot of epoxy to fillBut it doesn't have to be that bad. Something I do now is get the
>the weave.
xynole down and wet out, using a squeegie to reduce the amount of
epoxy used, then while still tacky add a "fill the weave" skim coat
that has microballoons and/or microlight using much less epoxy and
leaving a nearly finished surface.
This "floating" of xynole has never been a problem when dumping a
puddle of epoxy onto dry xynole and at first lightly and slowly, then
quicker and firmer, spreading of the resin with a squeegie and a
drywall knife (trowel?). Then again I've only done this working "down
hand", but I get nice results.
Rick
>
Oops, obviously I didn't mean thicker than west
--- thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
THe main rap agains Xynol is it doesn't add
structure<BR>
to a wood epoxy matrix, it is expesnive, it pills
and<BR>
furrs during handling and sanding. It floats
in<BR>
resin.<BR>
<BR>
If your only concern about glass is that it
doesn't<BR>
wet out easily. and it itches, don't worry.
Glass is<BR>
easy to wet out with somthing like S3, you need a<BR>
slightly more viscous epoxy than west, though west
is<BR>
great, on a flat surface, where it can just be let
to<BR>
puddle, and the excess squeegeed onto the next<BR>
section. You can rush wetting, but the best
technique<BR>
is to just give it enough time to carry on on its
own.<BR>
Everything I have heard about X is that it is a<BR>
bigger problem since it floats in resin (I haven't<BR>
used it however).<BR>
<BR>
Itch is dealt with in a two part strategy.
First<BR>
never ever sand glass. It's stupid. You
make both<BR>
the structure and aesthetics worse. Its like
drywall<BR>
work, smoth out the seems with compound. you
will<BR>
never get the best results grinding back, you are<BR>
better off buggeting for a lot of 410 work. THe
best<BR>
approach is to get some taping tools, and actualy
add<BR>
material with a trwel rather than sanding it down.
<BR>
This is mostly what the pros do. BUt of course
you<BR>
may end up sanding a little. In which case use
a<BR>
respirator, cover all exposed skin, and any that
can't<BR>
be coververd rub down first with BABY POWDER.
Just<BR>
like at the barber shop. If the little bits
can't get<BR>
into your pores inthe first place you won't itch.<BR>
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<HR><BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
>nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple
hours<BR>
with a >squeegie. <BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a<BR>
Wyoming. A gallon on a poiny skiff is a
fair<BR>
amount of epoxy. The going theme for xyonel
is<BR>
that it takes a lot of epoxy to fill the weave.
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Jeff<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been<BR>
removed]<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
</tt><BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<BR>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
<BR>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><BR>
<td align=center><font
size="-1"<BR>
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor</b></font></td><BR>
</tr><BR>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><BR>
<td align=center width=470><table
border=0<BR>
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td
align=center><font<BR>
face=arial
size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466">http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466</a>"targe<BR>
t=_top><img<BR>
src="<a
href="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg">http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg</a>"alt="Click<BR>
Here!" width="250"
height="300"<BR>
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td><BR>
</tr><BR>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1
height=1<BR>
src="<a
href="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931">http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931</a>"></td></tr><BR>
</table><BR>
<BR>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<tt><BR>
Bolger rules!!!<BR><BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
flogging<BR>
dead horses<BR><BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list,
stay on<BR>
topic, and punctuate<BR><BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your
posts,<BR>
snip all you like<BR><BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
1209,<BR>
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
282-1349<BR><BR>
- Unsubscribe: <BR>
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt><BR>
<br><BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
<a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>">Yahoo!
Terms<BR>
of Service</a>.</tt><BR>
</br><BR>
<BR>
</body></html><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
<BR>
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! <a
href="http://entertainment.yahoo.ca">http://entertainment.yahoo.ca</a><BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=508524373"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
--- thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
THe main rap agains Xynol is it doesn't add
structure<BR>
to a wood epoxy matrix, it is expesnive, it pills
and<BR>
furrs during handling and sanding. It floats
in<BR>
resin.<BR>
<BR>
If your only concern about glass is that it
doesn't<BR>
wet out easily. and it itches, don't worry.
Glass is<BR>
easy to wet out with somthing like S3, you need a<BR>
slightly more viscous epoxy than west, though west
is<BR>
great, on a flat surface, where it can just be let
to<BR>
puddle, and the excess squeegeed onto the next<BR>
section. You can rush wetting, but the best
technique<BR>
is to just give it enough time to carry on on its
own.<BR>
Everything I have heard about X is that it is a<BR>
bigger problem since it floats in resin (I haven't<BR>
used it however).<BR>
<BR>
Itch is dealt with in a two part strategy.
First<BR>
never ever sand glass. It's stupid. You
make both<BR>
the structure and aesthetics worse. Its like
drywall<BR>
work, smoth out the seems with compound. you
will<BR>
never get the best results grinding back, you are<BR>
better off buggeting for a lot of 410 work. THe
best<BR>
approach is to get some taping tools, and actualy
add<BR>
material with a trwel rather than sanding it down.
<BR>
This is mostly what the pros do. BUt of course
you<BR>
may end up sanding a little. In which case use
a<BR>
respirator, cover all exposed skin, and any that
can't<BR>
be coververd rub down first with BABY POWDER.
Just<BR>
like at the barber shop. If the little bits
can't get<BR>
into your pores inthe first place you won't itch.<BR>
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<HR><BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
>nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple
hours<BR>
with a >squeegie. <BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a<BR>
Wyoming. A gallon on a poiny skiff is a
fair<BR>
amount of epoxy. The going theme for xyonel
is<BR>
that it takes a lot of epoxy to fill the weave.
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Jeff<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been<BR>
removed]<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
</tt><BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<BR>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
<BR>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><BR>
<td align=center><font
size="-1"<BR>
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor</b></font></td><BR>
</tr><BR>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><BR>
<td align=center width=470><table
border=0<BR>
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td
align=center><font<BR>
face=arial
size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466">http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466</a>"targe<BR>
t=_top><img<BR>
src="<a
href="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg">http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg</a>"alt="Click<BR>
Here!" width="250"
height="300"<BR>
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td><BR>
</tr><BR>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1
height=1<BR>
src="<a
href="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931">http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931</a>"></td></tr><BR>
</table><BR>
<BR>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<tt><BR>
Bolger rules!!!<BR><BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
flogging<BR>
dead horses<BR><BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list,
stay on<BR>
topic, and punctuate<BR><BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your
posts,<BR>
snip all you like<BR><BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
1209,<BR>
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
282-1349<BR><BR>
- Unsubscribe: <BR>
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt><BR>
<br><BR>
<BR>
<br><BR>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
<a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>">Yahoo!
Terms<BR>
of Service</a>.</tt><BR>
</br><BR>
<BR>
</body></html><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
<BR>
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! <a
href="http://entertainment.yahoo.ca">http://entertainment.yahoo.ca</a><BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=508524373"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
the group built boats for the canal while the other half fashioned
oars,masts,yards and thole pins from the left over handles.Shortly
thereafter,came a great feast with much dancing and singing as the
boats were launched on a trip to Nowhere.......
Peter Lenihan
> The next day? The next day they melted down the shovels to meet theLater on, after the fires had cooled from melting the shovels,half
> province's steel quota!
>
the group built boats for the canal while the other half fashioned
oars,masts,yards and thole pins from the left over handles.Shortly
thereafter,came a great feast with much dancing and singing as the
boats were launched on a trip to Nowhere.......
Peter Lenihan
Nah... probably filled the canal back in because the Ministry of the
People's Water hadn't got the message to storm water production, and the
Ministry of Moving the People's Stuff had a flat. Trouble with Marxist
dialectic was they all took it too seriously. Personally, I think it's
a hoot...
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:06 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
province's steel quota!
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
Click Here!
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=854914205>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
People's Water hadn't got the message to storm water production, and the
Ministry of Moving the People's Stuff had a flat. Trouble with Marxist
dialectic was they all took it too seriously. Personally, I think it's
a hoot...
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:06 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
>> Back when Mao was running China they gave a demo of how manpowerThe next day? The next day they melted down the shovels to meet the
>was
>> better than technology. They lined up God knows how many people
>and
>> handed them shovels. They dug a 20 mile canal in a few hours.
>
>A splendid example of the errors involved in Marxist economics. What
>did the people do the next day?
province's steel quota!
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
Click Here!
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=854914205>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
THe main rap agains Xynol is it doesn't add structure
to a wood epoxy matrix, it is expesnive, it pills and
furrs during handling and sanding. It floats in
resin.
If your only concern about glass is that it doesn't
wet out easily. and it itches, don't worry. Glass is
easy to wet out with somthing like S3, you need a
slightly more viscous epoxy than west, though west is
great, on a flat surface, where it can just be let to
puddle, and the excess squeegeed onto the next
section. You can rush wetting, but the best technique
is to just give it enough time to carry on on its own.
Everything I have heard about X is that it is a
bigger problem since it floats in resin (I haven't
used it however).
Itch is dealt with in a two part strategy. First
never ever sand glass. It's stupid. You make both
the structure and aesthetics worse. Its like drywall
work, smoth out the seems with compound. you will
never get the best results grinding back, you are
better off buggeting for a lot of 410 work. THe best
approach is to get some taping tools, and actualy add
material with a trwel rather than sanding it down.
This is mostly what the pros do. BUt of course you
may end up sanding a little. In which case use a
respirator, cover all exposed skin, and any that can't
be coververd rub down first with BABY POWDER. Just
like at the barber shop. If the little bits can't get
into your pores inthe first place you won't itch.
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
<BR>
I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a
Wyoming. A gallon on a poiny skiff is a fair
amount of epoxy. The going theme for xyonel is
that it takes a lot of epoxy to fill the weave. <BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
to a wood epoxy matrix, it is expesnive, it pills and
furrs during handling and sanding. It floats in
resin.
If your only concern about glass is that it doesn't
wet out easily. and it itches, don't worry. Glass is
easy to wet out with somthing like S3, you need a
slightly more viscous epoxy than west, though west is
great, on a flat surface, where it can just be let to
puddle, and the excess squeegeed onto the next
section. You can rush wetting, but the best technique
is to just give it enough time to carry on on its own.
Everything I have heard about X is that it is a
bigger problem since it floats in resin (I haven't
used it however).
Itch is dealt with in a two part strategy. First
never ever sand glass. It's stupid. You make both
the structure and aesthetics worse. Its like drywall
work, smoth out the seems with compound. you will
never get the best results grinding back, you are
better off buggeting for a lot of 410 work. THe best
approach is to get some taping tools, and actualy add
material with a trwel rather than sanding it down.
This is mostly what the pros do. BUt of course you
may end up sanding a little. In which case use a
respirator, cover all exposed skin, and any that can't
be coververd rub down first with BABY POWDER. Just
like at the barber shop. If the little bits can't get
into your pores inthe first place you won't itch.
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
>nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple hourswith a >squeegie. <BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a
Wyoming. A gallon on a poiny skiff is a fair
amount of epoxy. The going theme for xyonel is
that it takes a lot of epoxy to fill the weave. <BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
![http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click](http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click){kind=link}
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=729793931"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
>> Back when Mao was running China they gave a demo of how manpowerThe next day? The next day they melted down the shovels to meet the
>was
>> better than technology. They lined up God knows how many people
>and
>> handed them shovels. They dug a 20 mile canal in a few hours.
>
>A splendid example of the errors involved in Marxist economics. What
>did the people do the next day?
province's steel quota!
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple hours with a >squeegie.I'm not sure I can afford to do this on a Wyoming. A gallon on a poiny skiff is a fair amount of epoxy. The going theme for xyonel is that it takes a lot of epoxy to fill the weave.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Back when Mao was running China they gave a demo of how manpowerwas
> better than technology. They lined up God knows how many peopleand
> handed them shovels. They dug a 20 mile canal in a few hours.A splendid example of the errors involved in Marxist economics. What
did the people do the next day?
Peter
> I stopped by to see what they could do to give me an extremely longpot life as I hope to be joining an eighty some foot long chine
Sounds like you need to add a few cases of beer.
I have seen a few cases get a house painted in a single day -- no
reason it could not get a 80' chine log done in half an hour.
Back when Moa was running China they gave a demo of how manpower was
better than technology. They lined up God knows how many people and
handed them shovels. They dug a 20 mile canal in a few hours.
> Xynole is not difficult to work with, but does requireOnce again, let me emphasize that I do not have personal experience,
> that you handle it different than fiberglass.
and am only repeating what I have read.
I believe that Xynole and Dynel were introduced as cloth for coatings
fairly early in the epoxy-coating era. Boats had been built cold-
molded with epoxy coatings but without glass and they had to be
watched carefully so that any scratches (as from docking) were
recoated immediately. Otherwise, there would be water intrusion. The
above-named were advertised as having superior abraision resistance,
and also a much superior ability to drape smoothly over round-bottom
shapes. The difficulty in sanding was taken as a sign of the abrasion
resistance.
However, the trend over the years has been to go to fiberglass. I
don't know about cost, but availabilty and workability (sandability?)
have tipped the balance. Strength was not an issue in the original
scheme, but now sometimes is (as at www.bateau.com). The designer
should be asked about that if, in fact, he has specified glass.
Peter
I would try samples. I am also very interested in the many other types
of material out there. I would love to have you experiment so I could
read about it :)
HJ
Jeff Blunck wrote:
of material out there. I would love to have you experiment so I could
read about it :)
HJ
Jeff Blunck wrote:
>
> I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have resell 80 sheets of Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit card but $46.00 / sheet gets it delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have to get the trailer done and off the driveway this weekend)
>
> Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
>
> Question for the group:
>
> RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff? Would this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
>
> It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to wet out it may be worth it
>
> Anyone use this stuff?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Jeff,
Where on the Wyoming are you planning on the xynole?
Just today I put a xynole/epoxy/graphite bottom on a Pointy Skiff
that I finished last weekend. This is the third small boat that I've
used xynole on, it's a joy to work with and I won't go back to
fiberglass. Xynole is not difficult to work with, but does require
that you handle it different than fiberglass.
Last year I used it for the first time covering a meranti Diablo from
one chine accross the bottom over the second chine and up to
(actually
down to as the hull was inverted) the gunwale with the first layer,
then followed right away with the second going the opposite way. Used
nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple hours with a squeegie.
Later a light sanding with some minor fairing to feather out the
seam,
then two-part epoxy primer, a final fairing and Kirby's enamel above
the waterline and bottompaint below. Came out real nice. This boat is
on SF Bay every day from April to Nov. second year now, still looks
nice.
Yes it takes more resin than 6 oz glass cloth, and yes it tough to
sand. But no itchies. Cutting the dry cloth is hard with scissors,
but
trimming green with a razor knife after the epoxy has gone to tacky
stage is easy. Filling to fair rather than grinding sure makes that
easier.
And keep in mind Raka's xynole is 59" wide per yard when figuring
cost.
As far as the technical properties and numbers, I know nothing...
I would sugesst you call Raka and get a yard then do some testing to
see how you like it....
Rick
Where on the Wyoming are you planning on the xynole?
Just today I put a xynole/epoxy/graphite bottom on a Pointy Skiff
that I finished last weekend. This is the third small boat that I've
used xynole on, it's a joy to work with and I won't go back to
fiberglass. Xynole is not difficult to work with, but does require
that you handle it different than fiberglass.
Last year I used it for the first time covering a meranti Diablo from
one chine accross the bottom over the second chine and up to
(actually
down to as the hull was inverted) the gunwale with the first layer,
then followed right away with the second going the opposite way. Used
nearly a gallon of epoxy and took a couple hours with a squeegie.
Later a light sanding with some minor fairing to feather out the
seam,
then two-part epoxy primer, a final fairing and Kirby's enamel above
the waterline and bottompaint below. Came out real nice. This boat is
on SF Bay every day from April to Nov. second year now, still looks
nice.
Yes it takes more resin than 6 oz glass cloth, and yes it tough to
sand. But no itchies. Cutting the dry cloth is hard with scissors,
but
trimming green with a razor knife after the epoxy has gone to tacky
stage is easy. Filling to fair rather than grinding sure makes that
easier.
And keep in mind Raka's xynole is 59" wide per yard when figuring
cost.
As far as the technical properties and numbers, I know nothing...
I would sugesst you call Raka and get a yard then do some testing to
see how you like it....
Rick
>Would this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
> RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff?
>wet out it may be worth it
> It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to
>
> Anyone use this stuff?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't have anything substantive to add to the xynol or not to xynol
discussion.
Which epoxy resin are you planning to use? I was reading through a bunch of
MAIBs trying to get organized on this boat building project that I'm going
to get started on Real Soon Now. A guy from Alaska highly recommended Smith
& Co's epoxy.
Although my last name is Smith and I live across SF Bay from Smith & Co,
they are located at 5100 Channel Avenue, Richmond CA 94804 (510-237-6842),
I'm not related to them and I don't work for them. I have been to their
facility but I haven't used their stuff.
The guy from Alaska recommended first coating the plywood with Smith & Co's
penetrating epoxy and then using a thickened epoxy to glue the sheets
together. This keeps the bare plywood from soaking all the resin out of the
joint and weakening it.
Mr. Smith of Smith & Co certainly seems to be both knowledgeable and
experienced when it comes to sticking wood together. (I've forgotten his
first name.) He seems to be well up on both the chemistry and the physics
of what is going on in the epoxy and the joint.
I stopped by to see what they could do to give me an extremely long pot
life as I hope to be joining an eighty some foot long chine log. Even
though I will have dry fitted the joint ahead of time and made at least one
dry run putting things together, I figure that there are plenty of things
that can go wrong, so better safe than sorry and get a really long pot
life. Mr. Smith said that they could give me eight hours or more at 70
degrees.
He developed his long pot life epoxy for Mr. Philbrick of Oakland's
Philbrick Boats. Philbrick boats were and are beautiful mahogany sculpture
masquerading as high speed runabouts. Mr. Smith could never get Mr.
Philbrick to give him the straight story about why he wanted such a long
pot life, so he paid a visit one day. As near as Mr. Smith could tell, Mr.
Philbrick was lazy and only wanted to mix up one batch of resin a day.
Smith & Co used to and may occasionally advertise in MAIB. If you do order
from them, make sure you tell them you learned about their epoxy from MAIB
which is sort of true if by a round about way. Maybe they will advertise in
MAIB more often.
I don't think that Smith & Co sells cloth but Mr. Smith seems to know a
hell of a lot about who's got what and who has a good deal on left handed
gronicles and the famous rotary metric chain stretcher that everyone wants
these days. If you buy some resin he may know where to get a really good
deal on some cloth. He'd also know about which cloth to use and why.
Because of the very favorable MAIB article by the guy from Alaska, and
unless I hear screams of anguish from people who have been unhappy with
Smith & Co's epoxy, I think I'll try theirs first. It is handy for me that
they are only a half an hour away from me.
I envy Jeff's getting started on Wyoming. I'm in the process of arranging
to rent a part of a shop. Then I can get the shop organized. Then I can
build a small practice hull or two to see if Phil Bolger's techniques work
for me on a small scale. Then I can figure out if I've got the finances
nailed down or not. Then I can locate a shop space big enough to build what
I want. Then I can order a bazillion sheets of plywood and a tank truck of
epoxy and get started.
Just as I said, Real Soon Now....
Phil Smith
discussion.
Which epoxy resin are you planning to use? I was reading through a bunch of
MAIBs trying to get organized on this boat building project that I'm going
to get started on Real Soon Now. A guy from Alaska highly recommended Smith
& Co's epoxy.
Although my last name is Smith and I live across SF Bay from Smith & Co,
they are located at 5100 Channel Avenue, Richmond CA 94804 (510-237-6842),
I'm not related to them and I don't work for them. I have been to their
facility but I haven't used their stuff.
The guy from Alaska recommended first coating the plywood with Smith & Co's
penetrating epoxy and then using a thickened epoxy to glue the sheets
together. This keeps the bare plywood from soaking all the resin out of the
joint and weakening it.
Mr. Smith of Smith & Co certainly seems to be both knowledgeable and
experienced when it comes to sticking wood together. (I've forgotten his
first name.) He seems to be well up on both the chemistry and the physics
of what is going on in the epoxy and the joint.
I stopped by to see what they could do to give me an extremely long pot
life as I hope to be joining an eighty some foot long chine log. Even
though I will have dry fitted the joint ahead of time and made at least one
dry run putting things together, I figure that there are plenty of things
that can go wrong, so better safe than sorry and get a really long pot
life. Mr. Smith said that they could give me eight hours or more at 70
degrees.
He developed his long pot life epoxy for Mr. Philbrick of Oakland's
Philbrick Boats. Philbrick boats were and are beautiful mahogany sculpture
masquerading as high speed runabouts. Mr. Smith could never get Mr.
Philbrick to give him the straight story about why he wanted such a long
pot life, so he paid a visit one day. As near as Mr. Smith could tell, Mr.
Philbrick was lazy and only wanted to mix up one batch of resin a day.
Smith & Co used to and may occasionally advertise in MAIB. If you do order
from them, make sure you tell them you learned about their epoxy from MAIB
which is sort of true if by a round about way. Maybe they will advertise in
MAIB more often.
I don't think that Smith & Co sells cloth but Mr. Smith seems to know a
hell of a lot about who's got what and who has a good deal on left handed
gronicles and the famous rotary metric chain stretcher that everyone wants
these days. If you buy some resin he may know where to get a really good
deal on some cloth. He'd also know about which cloth to use and why.
Because of the very favorable MAIB article by the guy from Alaska, and
unless I hear screams of anguish from people who have been unhappy with
Smith & Co's epoxy, I think I'll try theirs first. It is handy for me that
they are only a half an hour away from me.
I envy Jeff's getting started on Wyoming. I'm in the process of arranging
to rent a part of a shop. Then I can get the shop organized. Then I can
build a small practice hull or two to see if Phil Bolger's techniques work
for me on a small scale. Then I can figure out if I've got the finances
nailed down or not. Then I can locate a shop space big enough to build what
I want. Then I can order a bazillion sheets of plywood and a tank truck of
epoxy and get started.
Just as I said, Real Soon Now....
Phil Smith
That is one parkerism i disagree with, it is possibly
more tear resistant (is it cheaper?). Other than
that, it floats in the resin, furs when sanded, and
doesn't contribute much in stiffness, or impact
resistance, compared to simillar thickness of glass.
Don't get why he likes this stuff.
--- "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Reuel Parker recommends this stuff very strongly in
his books. I inquired<BR>
about it several years ago at Defender Industries, but
they were out of<BR>
stock and didn't seem very interested in a small order
anyway. I went with<BR>
locally bought 6 oz fibreglass instead. Xynole
apparently finishes about<BR>
equivalent to 8 ounce glass -- must soak up the epoxy,
I guess.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for letting us know that Raka carries this.<BR>
<BR>
Jamie Orr<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jeff Blunck
[mailto:boatbuilding@...]<BR>
Sent: April 10, 2002 1:59 PM<BR>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [bolger] Wyoming<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have
resell 80 sheets of<BR>
Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit
card but $46.00 / sheet gets it<BR>
delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have
to get the trailer done and<BR>
off the driveway this weekend)<BR>
<BR>
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.<BR>
<BR>
Question for the group: <BR>
<BR>
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth.
Is it good stuff? Would<BR>
this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
<BR>
<BR>
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and
is easier to wet out it<BR>
may be worth it<BR>
<BR>
Anyone use this stuff? <BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,<BR>
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=905991705"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
more tear resistant (is it cheaper?). Other than
that, it floats in the resin, furs when sanded, and
doesn't contribute much in stiffness, or impact
resistance, compared to simillar thickness of glass.
Don't get why he likes this stuff.
--- "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Reuel Parker recommends this stuff very strongly in
his books. I inquired<BR>
about it several years ago at Defender Industries, but
they were out of<BR>
stock and didn't seem very interested in a small order
anyway. I went with<BR>
locally bought 6 oz fibreglass instead. Xynole
apparently finishes about<BR>
equivalent to 8 ounce glass -- must soak up the epoxy,
I guess.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for letting us know that Raka carries this.<BR>
<BR>
Jamie Orr<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jeff Blunck
[mailto:boatbuilding@...]<BR>
Sent: April 10, 2002 1:59 PM<BR>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [bolger] Wyoming<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have
resell 80 sheets of<BR>
Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit
card but $46.00 / sheet gets it<BR>
delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have
to get the trailer done and<BR>
off the driveway this weekend)<BR>
<BR>
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.<BR>
<BR>
Question for the group: <BR>
<BR>
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth.
Is it good stuff? Would<BR>
this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
<BR>
<BR>
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and
is easier to wet out it<BR>
may be worth it<BR>
<BR>
Anyone use this stuff? <BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,<BR>
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/rand=905991705"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
No, he sell on ebay, but I don't think he has a website. Send him and
email and ask what he has.
email and ask what he has.
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Is there a website to browse through?
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rlspell2000
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:21 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
>
>
> Jeff, before you buy cloth, you should give Frank Weston "frank
at
> weston-american dot com" a holler. I buy all my cloth from him, I
get
> 1.4oz for $1.95 a yard, and I got the 6oz for the hull for $3.75
a
> yard.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was hoping for both added strength and abrasion resistance. RAKA is saying it's more abrasion resistant than cloth. Can it be worse than say 1.5 oz. cloth when it comes to floating?
I'll have to go back and re-read Parker's advice on the Xyenol.
Jeff
I'll have to go back and re-read Parker's advice on the Xyenol.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
> Xynole apparently finishes about
> equivalent to 8 ounce glass
I don't have any experience, but from reading I have gotten the
impression that the polester is more difficult to apply because it
floats in the epoxy (if the epoxy layer is thick enough). It does not
have the strength that glass has, but I assume you are only using the
glass for durability of the finish and not for strength.
Peter
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Xynole apparently finishes aboutI don't have any experience, but from reading I have gotten the
> equivalent to 8 ounce glass
impression that the polester is more difficult to apply because it
floats in the epoxy (if the epoxy layer is thick enough). It does not
have the strength that glass has, but I assume you are only using the
glass for durability of the finish and not for strength.
Peter
Is there a website to browse through?
Jeff
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: rlspell2000
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
Jeff, before you buy cloth, you should give Frank Weston "frank at
weston-american dot com" a holler. I buy all my cloth from him, I get
1.4oz for $1.95 a yard, and I got the 6oz for the hull for $3.75 a
yard.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff, before you buy cloth, you should give Frank Weston "frank at
weston-american dot com" a holler. I buy all my cloth from him, I get
1.4oz for $1.95 a yard, and I got the 6oz for the hull for $3.75 a
yard.
weston-american dot com" a holler. I buy all my cloth from him, I get
1.4oz for $1.95 a yard, and I got the 6oz for the hull for $3.75 a
yard.
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have resell 80 sheets
of Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit card but $46.00 /
sheet gets it delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have to get
the trailer done and off the driveway this weekend)
>
> Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
>
> Question for the group:
>
> RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff?
Would this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
>
> It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to
wet out it may be worth it
>
> Anyone use this stuff?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Reuel Parker recommends this stuff very strongly in his books. I inquired
about it several years ago at Defender Industries, but they were out of
stock and didn't seem very interested in a small order anyway. I went with
locally bought 6 oz fibreglass instead. Xynole apparently finishes about
equivalent to 8 ounce glass -- must soak up the epoxy, I guess.
Thanks for letting us know that Raka carries this.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: April 10, 2002 1:59 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Wyoming
I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have resell 80 sheets of
Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit card but $46.00 / sheet gets it
delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have to get the trailer done and
off the driveway this weekend)
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
Question for the group:
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff? Would
this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to wet out it
may be worth it
Anyone use this stuff?
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
about it several years ago at Defender Industries, but they were out of
stock and didn't seem very interested in a small order anyway. I went with
locally bought 6 oz fibreglass instead. Xynole apparently finishes about
equivalent to 8 ounce glass -- must soak up the epoxy, I guess.
Thanks for letting us know that Raka carries this.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: April 10, 2002 1:59 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Wyoming
I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have resell 80 sheets of
Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit card but $46.00 / sheet gets it
delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have to get the trailer done and
off the driveway this weekend)
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
Question for the group:
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff? Would
this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to wet out it
may be worth it
Anyone use this stuff?
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I guess I'm committed! Either that or I'll have resell 80 sheets of Meranti 1/2" plywood. Big hit on the credit card but $46.00 / sheet gets it delivered to my driveway next Wednesday. (have to get the trailer done and off the driveway this weekend)
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
Question for the group:
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff? Would this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to wet out it may be worth it
Anyone use this stuff?
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now I need to get the epoxy ordered.
Question for the group:
RAKA is now selling the Xynole Polyester cloth. Is it good stuff? Would this 4oz cloth be as good as 7oz or 8oz glass?
It's a bit more expensive but if it doesn't itch and is easier to wet out it may be worth it
Anyone use this stuff?
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff Blunck and group! I was looking at the cartoon and article for
Minnesota and thought the idea of the outhouse on the stern would
apply equally well to Wyoming. Any thoughts???
Steve Bosquette
Minnesota and thought the idea of the outhouse on the stern would
apply equally well to Wyoming. Any thoughts???
Steve Bosquette
Sorry about the delayed reply - I answered from home using a different
email address and Yahoo rejected it.
Lee, I've looked at the Water Van too, along with various other house
and shanty boats. They all look very practical, but I'm just stuck on
the sharpies, which offer me a low resistance hull form and classic good
looks. Kind of like me. Kind of. (or maybe I should just build a jon
boat to enhance my rugged outdoor image ;)
Bruce, I'd never heard of the Minnesota either. I like her looks. Now
I'll have to build her, trailer her, cruise her, take short trips on
her, watch my kids jump off the roof, make sure the grandkids don't fall
overboard, and take friends out on her. Maybe I'll take her down the
Missouri and Missippi to New Orleans, then over on the Intracoastal to
visit my cousin in Fla. Or maybe up the Mississippi and Illinois to the
inlaws' in Chicago...
Oops, I'm back now.
The Minnesota article raises a point that I've pondered often - getting
back up that swift Missouri. I'm thinking that a high-thrust 25 or
50hp sounds about right for hull speed cruising at half throttle, and
having something in reserve. But hull speed against that current will
be very slow. I'm hoping that the shallow draft that allows folks to
find the best anchorages and to get outside the busy channels, will also
let me keep out of strongest part of the current. (Imagine the tow
captains thoughts as I pass him on the inside of a big bend :) I may
need more horsepower, but well, we'll see.
Stew Miller, wishing he could think of witty tag lines, on the shores of
the muddy Missouri.
email address and Yahoo rejected it.
Lee, I've looked at the Water Van too, along with various other house
and shanty boats. They all look very practical, but I'm just stuck on
the sharpies, which offer me a low resistance hull form and classic good
looks. Kind of like me. Kind of. (or maybe I should just build a jon
boat to enhance my rugged outdoor image ;)
Bruce, I'd never heard of the Minnesota either. I like her looks. Now
I'll have to build her, trailer her, cruise her, take short trips on
her, watch my kids jump off the roof, make sure the grandkids don't fall
overboard, and take friends out on her. Maybe I'll take her down the
Missouri and Missippi to New Orleans, then over on the Intracoastal to
visit my cousin in Fla. Or maybe up the Mississippi and Illinois to the
inlaws' in Chicago...
Oops, I'm back now.
The Minnesota article raises a point that I've pondered often - getting
back up that swift Missouri. I'm thinking that a high-thrust 25 or
50hp sounds about right for hull speed cruising at half throttle, and
having something in reserve. But hull speed against that current will
be very slow. I'm hoping that the shallow draft that allows folks to
find the best anchorages and to get outside the busy channels, will also
let me keep out of strongest part of the current. (Imagine the tow
captains thoughts as I pass him on the inside of a big bend :) I may
need more horsepower, but well, we'll see.
Stew Miller, wishing he could think of witty tag lines, on the shores of
the muddy Missouri.
Stew, the response I got was a longish, very interesting call from
Susan Altenberger where we discussed the varios designs vs. my needs.
Then he sent a redrawn cartoon of Dakota with a dedicated double bed,
it's in Bolger 2 files under "Dakota", recently I requested a cartoon
on a power sharpie of Phil's I'd not yet heard of. "Minnestoa" is
also now in Bolger2 in the file "Bolger Scans". I really like
Minnestota, especially the outhouse at the stern.
Sue and I didn't discuss the performance/economy question.
Re: Adagio, Phil's not the only designer to draw square boats, is he?
I liken her to a floating construction shack, When I was just
starting out I lived in smaller apartments. We've modified her
interior to have a Seeley Posturpedic double bed aft and moved the
dinette forward. Actually, we've had a ton of fun with her, and she's
very survivable for extended cruises and perfect for all the canals
and rivers here. We're thinking of doing the St. Lawrence, Lake
Champlain, Hudson, Erie, Oswego arm, and back across Lake Ontario
loop this summer. Keeping a motorcycle on the foredeck really extends
your range of cruising possibilities when work rears it's ugly head
come Monday morn.
She's make a great base to lug a couple of Bolger small boats around
in and may be at the Lake Champlain Messabout in August.
Bruce Hector
www.brucesboats.com
Susan Altenberger where we discussed the varios designs vs. my needs.
Then he sent a redrawn cartoon of Dakota with a dedicated double bed,
it's in Bolger 2 files under "Dakota", recently I requested a cartoon
on a power sharpie of Phil's I'd not yet heard of. "Minnestoa" is
also now in Bolger2 in the file "Bolger Scans". I really like
Minnestota, especially the outhouse at the stern.
Sue and I didn't discuss the performance/economy question.
Re: Adagio, Phil's not the only designer to draw square boats, is he?
I liken her to a floating construction shack, When I was just
starting out I lived in smaller apartments. We've modified her
interior to have a Seeley Posturpedic double bed aft and moved the
dinette forward. Actually, we've had a ton of fun with her, and she's
very survivable for extended cruises and perfect for all the canals
and rivers here. We're thinking of doing the St. Lawrence, Lake
Champlain, Hudson, Erie, Oswego arm, and back across Lake Ontario
loop this summer. Keeping a motorcycle on the foredeck really extends
your range of cruising possibilities when work rears it's ugly head
come Monday morn.
She's make a great base to lug a couple of Bolger small boats around
in and may be at the Lake Champlain Messabout in August.
Bruce Hector
www.brucesboats.com
--- In bolger@y..., "Stew Miller" <junkmail@m...> wrote:
and all. Not very 'shippy' though..
Lee Rust
Rochester NY
> Hey Bruce,mention
>
> I was trolling the Bolger group on Yahoo! tonight, searching for
> of my favorite Bolger boats, the power sharpies. I stumbledacross an
> old post of yours, asking for info on sharpie cruisers:cruisers?
>
> >Is there anywhere I can see line drawings of all the sharpie
> >Tennessee, Idaho, Dakota, Champlain, et al.hull?
>
> >What are the cruising speeds of the models with rocker in the
> >I know the flat bottoms are fast. But what economy andperformance
> >would you get with a 10 horse 4 stroke on the stern of each?How a 25?
> >How do they handle? What force of wind and wave can theytake?
>must
> >I've sent off a snail mail to PB&F with these questions and my
> >have list for his recommendations.smitten
> ...
>
> I'm curious about the reply you received from Mr. Bolger. I am
> with the classic styling and efficient movement of the sharpies,but I
> can't find room in the Tennessee/Idaho for my needs, whichare very
> similar to yours: a double bed, galley, head w/ shower, etc. Ithink
> Champlain is very good looking, but still a bit too small. I'vethought
> that the Dakota could hold my wife and I for extended cruises,but 38'
> is a might long for building, storing, and trailering (at least atmy
> present home). I had reached the point that thought I may haveto build
> a pontoon houseboat to achieve my desired living space onefficient
> narrow hulls. No offense to Adagio, but that style of boat justdoes
> not look "shippy" enough for me (You even mention not gettingmuch
> respect in her ;). My other thought was to retrofit a usedsailboat
> with at pilot house and a larger fuel tank. Ugh.moved
>
> I haven't been on the Bolger group for over a year because we
> across country, went back to school, got a new job, newhouse...
> Tonight I also found pictures of the Windermere. Ah! Sigh. Ithink
> she's the one for me. She's got everything I need, and is laidout
> almost exactly like I want. I've printed her lines out to put on thesharpies,
> wall for dream fodder. Conrad's Peter.
>
> I'd still be interested in hearing about Mr. B's reply on the
> Bruce.How about the Water Van?? Lots of accomodations, double bed
>
> Thanks,
> Stew Miller
> KCMO
and all. Not very 'shippy' though..
Lee Rust
Rochester NY
Hey Bruce,
I was trolling the Bolger group on Yahoo! tonight, searching for mention
of my favorite Bolger boats, the power sharpies. I stumbled across an
old post of yours, asking for info on sharpie cruisers:
I'm curious about the reply you received from Mr. Bolger. I am smitten
with the classic styling and efficient movement of the sharpies, but I
can't find room in the Tennessee/Idaho for my needs, which are very
similar to yours: a double bed, galley, head w/ shower, etc. I think
Champlain is very good looking, but still a bit too small. I've thought
that the Dakota could hold my wife and I for extended cruises, but 38'
is a might long for building, storing, and trailering (at least at my
present home). I had reached the point that thought I may have to build
a pontoon houseboat to achieve my desired living space on efficient
narrow hulls. No offense to Adagio, but that style of boat just does
not look "shippy" enough for me (You even mention not getting much
respect in her ;). My other thought was to retrofit a used sailboat
with at pilot house and a larger fuel tank. Ugh.
I haven't been on the Bolger group for over a year because we moved
across country, went back to school, got a new job, new house...
Tonight I also found pictures of the Windermere. Ah! Sigh. I think
she's the one for me. She's got everything I need, and is laid out
almost exactly like I want. I've printed her lines out to put on the
wall for dream fodder. Conrad's Peter.
I'd still be interested in hearing about Mr. B's reply on the sharpies,
Bruce.
Thanks,
Stew Miller
KCMO
I was trolling the Bolger group on Yahoo! tonight, searching for mention
of my favorite Bolger boats, the power sharpies. I stumbled across an
old post of yours, asking for info on sharpie cruisers:
>Is there anywhere I can see line drawings of all the sharpie cruisers?...
>Tennessee, Idaho, Dakota, Champlain, et al.
>What are the cruising speeds of the models with rocker in the hull?
>I know the flat bottoms are fast. But what economy and performance
>would you get with a 10 horse 4 stroke on the stern of each? How a 25?
>How do they handle? What force of wind and wave can they take?
>I've sent off a snail mail to PB&F with these questions and my must
>have list for his recommendations.
I'm curious about the reply you received from Mr. Bolger. I am smitten
with the classic styling and efficient movement of the sharpies, but I
can't find room in the Tennessee/Idaho for my needs, which are very
similar to yours: a double bed, galley, head w/ shower, etc. I think
Champlain is very good looking, but still a bit too small. I've thought
that the Dakota could hold my wife and I for extended cruises, but 38'
is a might long for building, storing, and trailering (at least at my
present home). I had reached the point that thought I may have to build
a pontoon houseboat to achieve my desired living space on efficient
narrow hulls. No offense to Adagio, but that style of boat just does
not look "shippy" enough for me (You even mention not getting much
respect in her ;). My other thought was to retrofit a used sailboat
with at pilot house and a larger fuel tank. Ugh.
I haven't been on the Bolger group for over a year because we moved
across country, went back to school, got a new job, new house...
Tonight I also found pictures of the Windermere. Ah! Sigh. I think
she's the one for me. She's got everything I need, and is laid out
almost exactly like I want. I've printed her lines out to put on the
wall for dream fodder. Conrad's Peter.
I'd still be interested in hearing about Mr. B's reply on the sharpies,
Bruce.
Thanks,
Stew Miller
KCMO
I'll be watching for the announcement (and pics) when you launch her
Stew
Stew
>From: Jeff Blunckdown, come out
>Will be going right through the area. When we are doing the shake
>Lake McConaughy and you can ride on her. Should be about 7 hoursdrive.
The more the merrier, hey, we'll have a party!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Kongslie
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
Add me to that list!
ken
----------
>From: "Stew Miller" <junkmail@...>
>To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [bolger] Wyoming
>Date: Sat, Mar 2, 2002, 2:05 PM
>
> Where will you be on the Missouri? I live in KC, and I'd love to see
> her some time. My dream is a Tennessee or Dakota for river cruising,
> so you've really got me interested.
>
> Stew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Blunck
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:59 PM
>
> I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then
> another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way
> trip.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Will be going right through the area. When we are doing the shake down, come out Lake McConaughy and you can ride on her. Should be about 7 hours drive.
Jeff
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Stew Miller
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Wyoming
Where will you be on the Missouri? I live in KC, and I'd love to see
her some time. My dream is a Tennessee or Dakota for river cruising,
so you've really got me interested.
Stew
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:59 PM
I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then
another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way
trip.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Add me to that list!
ken
----------
ken
----------
>From: "Stew Miller" <junkmail@...>
>To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [bolger] Wyoming
>Date: Sat, Mar 2, 2002, 2:05 PM
>
> Where will you be on the Missouri? I live in KC, and I'd love to see
> her some time. My dream is a Tennessee or Dakota for river cruising,
> so you've really got me interested.
>
> Stew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Blunck
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:59 PM
>
> I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then
> another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way
> trip.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Where will you be on the Missouri? I live in KC, and I'd love to see
her some time. My dream is a Tennessee or Dakota for river cruising,
so you've really got me interested.
Stew
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:59 PM
I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then
another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way
trip.
her some time. My dream is a Tennessee or Dakota for river cruising,
so you've really got me interested.
Stew
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:59 PM
I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then
another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way
trip.
Part a my conversation with Susan at PB&F that I copied from a private email to another builder, but I thought the group may be interested:
Jeff
****************************************
She told me that more large boats are damaged by a trailer than by water. I.E. an experience they had with their own Resolution. With that in mind, she recommended to load the boat, jack it up and lay it on a bunch of old tires, then strap it down enough to keep it from moving but not enough to compress the tires fully. Drive slow, under 50 mph. Evidently, the jarring of the hard suspension on large loads like the Wyo can cause windows to crack and stress not designed into the structure.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff
****************************************
She told me that more large boats are damaged by a trailer than by water. I.E. an experience they had with their own Resolution. With that in mind, she recommended to load the boat, jack it up and lay it on a bunch of old tires, then strap it down enough to keep it from moving but not enough to compress the tires fully. Drive slow, under 50 mph. Evidently, the jarring of the hard suspension on large loads like the Wyo can cause windows to crack and stress not designed into the structure.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have to go 200 miles to the summer shake down on the lake, then another 300 miles to the Missouri, but not fast. It'll be a one-way trip.
Jeff
This is exactly how I drag my scooner around with my Civic!
Fortunately I don't go too far or too fast.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff
This is exactly how I drag my scooner around with my Civic!
Fortunately I don't go too far or too fast.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>arrangement is with a 35' flat bed trailer and being hauledThis is exactly how I drag my scooner around with my Civic!
>backwards. The front is capable of cantelevering out the 16' extra
>without damage and would make launching safer.
Fortunately I don't go too far or too fast.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I just got off the phone after about an hour with Susanne Altenberger
at PB&F. Susan tracked down my work number and called me after I
sent a fax. We where discussing the hauling options on the Wyoming.
The best plan we came up with without using a Semi - flat bed
arrangement is with a 35' flat bed trailer and being hauled
backwards. The front is capable of cantelevering out the 16' extra
without damage and would make launching safer.
I found her to be wonderfully knowledgeable and pleasant with a
penchant for talking boats.
Jeff
at PB&F. Susan tracked down my work number and called me after I
sent a fax. We where discussing the hauling options on the Wyoming.
The best plan we came up with without using a Semi - flat bed
arrangement is with a 35' flat bed trailer and being hauled
backwards. The front is capable of cantelevering out the 16' extra
without damage and would make launching safer.
I found her to be wonderfully knowledgeable and pleasant with a
penchant for talking boats.
Jeff
>I think the glass tape thing is for the side panelsof single thickness using a butt block on the inside
and epoxy/tape on the outside. <BR>
The only thing being that one doesn't actualy need
glass and a butt blocks for strength. I suppose it
depends if one is sheathing the hull. If not then I
can see the point to capping all those cracks with
tape, if in fact the tape holds below the level of the
flat spot, if you have to fair the whole thing in,
then I would rather boat cloth it. On these sharpies,
there aren't too many places where there would be a
flat spot, the bottoms are pretty flat or gradual, on
the sides there is one area of modest curvature, but
that would be it. I would probably prefer boat cloth
to tape even if I wasn't sheathing the whole thing, or
for that matter was sheathing it in sub-assemblies and
had a few big pieces to join during final assembly.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
Yes the hull bottom is glued with epoxy and screwed down with different lengths of screws. He calls for each layer to be overlapped by at least 8" inches progressively. You can keep working as the epoxy is setting, by time you would get the far end of the hull, the day would be over and the next day you can start assembly by cutting to the right size. There are saw blades that can do the job by slicing through 1 1/2" of plywood, bronze screws and all.
I think the glass tape thing is for the side panels of single thickness using a butt block on the inside and epoxy/tape on the outside.
Jeff
I think the glass tape thing is for the side panels of single thickness using a butt block on the inside and epoxy/tape on the outside.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: timothyennuinet
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:49 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyoming - its just like drywall
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Wow, I hadn't thought of doing it that way to help fill in the flat
spot. I wonder about 1/2" ply with 2 layers though, would it be too
high then?
>
> Makes sense and I am going to try it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
Excellent! :)
As far as it being too deep..
The idea is that you would screw down -each- layer. The first layer to
the form and such.. the next layers you would epoxy and screw down to
the previous layers. You could use screws of various lengths if you
liked.. 1" for the first layer. 1.5 " for the next, etc. Sort of a
'poor mans' cold molding. ;) I can't take credit for this idea.. PB&F
told me about it as a means for hull construction.
Personally, I like the screw/epoxy plywood method better than the idea
of cold molding anyway, as the plywood is glued together in a pristine
environment under pressure, which you can't get as an amateur builder,
doing your own veneer layup.
--T
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
high then?
As far as it being too deep..
The idea is that you would screw down -each- layer. The first layer to
the form and such.. the next layers you would epoxy and screw down to
the previous layers. You could use screws of various lengths if you
liked.. 1" for the first layer. 1.5 " for the next, etc. Sort of a
'poor mans' cold molding. ;) I can't take credit for this idea.. PB&F
told me about it as a means for hull construction.
Personally, I like the screw/epoxy plywood method better than the idea
of cold molding anyway, as the plywood is glued together in a pristine
environment under pressure, which you can't get as an amateur builder,
doing your own veneer layup.
--T
> Wow, I hadn't thought of doing it that way to help fill in the flatspot. I wonder about 1/2" ply with 2 layers though, would it be too
high then?
>Excellent! :)
> Makes sense and I am going to try it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
As far as it being too deep..
The idea is that you would screw down -each- layer. The first layer to
the form and such.. the next layers you would epoxy and screw down to
the previous layers. You could use screws of various lengths if you
liked.. 1" for the first layer. 1.5 " for the next, etc. Sort of a
'poor mans' cold molding. ;) I can't take credit for this idea.. PB&F
told me about it as a means for hull construction.
Personally, I like the screw/epoxy plywood method better than the idea
of cold molding anyway, as the plywood is glued together in a pristine
environment under pressure, which you can't get as an amateur builder,
doing your own veneer layup.
--T
Wow, I hadn't thought of doing it that way to help fill in the flat spot. I wonder about 1/2" ply with 2 layers though, would it be too high then?
Makes sense and I am going to try it.
Thanks
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Makes sense and I am going to try it.
Thanks
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I use RAKA for everything at least so far. I rarely mix more than 60 seconds as the RAKA is fairly thin as epoxy goes. (75 Degrees F.) In all my boat projects, I have never had it stay soft or fail to set well. Lucky I guess. Usually mix 6 to 8 oz at a time on a big projects. Coating one sheet of plywood rarely takes over 30 minutes to get the glass laid out and coated once, then next morning before work I go out and coat again, and again at night to three coats. (Freeze your roller between uses) No sanding in between and an orange peal finish with a good sanding is okay for workboat finish. Very little fairing is needed if this can all be done on a flat level surface. Thick primer and another sanding does wonders to fill in the orange peal affects.
I'm sure I'm overly optimistic but if a Wyo can be assembled by a well trained crew of boatbuilders from a pallet of plywood to a boat ready for exterior paint in one day, 500 hours to get to same place using epoxy rather than 5200 in a tube should be somewhat realistic. Looking at the plans, it sure looks that way too.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm sure I'm overly optimistic but if a Wyo can be assembled by a well trained crew of boatbuilders from a pallet of plywood to a boat ready for exterior paint in one day, 500 hours to get to same place using epoxy rather than 5200 in a tube should be somewhat realistic. Looking at the plans, it sure looks that way too.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Agreed, I would never think of the Wyo for just pleasure. We wish to cruise, when that's over, we'll sell her off. If I could get a mooring on the local lake maybe use her as a floating cabin, but even at 26 miles long and 3 wide, she would see out of place.
I'm still researching the possibility of building almost all of the pieces individually. Sides could be put together and cut to size, but not glue up the joints in say three places to they can be handled easier. My drive way is over 50' long so it could be done. It is a vertical sided boat so once the sides are cut and bulkheads made, you'd have the basis for all measurements. All seams are backed up with 1 1/2" square stock and heavily nailed/screwed with bronze hardware, it could be assembled without waiting for epoxy to cure. At least to some extent.
I have access to a large hanger free of charge for up to 120 days. (As in the Boss has an airplane in his own hanger and the plane is gone each summer from June through Sept.)
And it may just be too big a project, don't know yet.
Jeff
I'm still researching the possibility of building almost all of the pieces individually. Sides could be put together and cut to size, but not glue up the joints in say three places to they can be handled easier. My drive way is over 50' long so it could be done. It is a vertical sided boat so once the sides are cut and bulkheads made, you'd have the basis for all measurements. All seams are backed up with 1 1/2" square stock and heavily nailed/screwed with bronze hardware, it could be assembled without waiting for epoxy to cure. At least to some extent.
I have access to a large hanger free of charge for up to 120 days. (As in the Boss has an airplane in his own hanger and the plane is gone each summer from June through Sept.)
And it may just be too big a project, don't know yet.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas dalzell
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyoming
I don't see how you can get it to 15000. What is the
other experience out there? A boat this size would
need great weather, or a fairly expensive shed to
build, that can run you. If you can't work
efficiently at night, set up efficient tool stations
etc... it takes forever to build. A nice average is
the same size as your boat length squared, though at
that length that is overkill. But that is just one
hidden cost.
A 50 foot boat is really large. It is a huge
millstone to your non-boating lifestyle. The guys who
made the large demountable Schooner who seem pretty
rugged as far af repeat offenders are concerned, ended
up putting her in storage because the upkeep became excessive.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Conceptualy if you are using butts at the same time,
and bending the panels, then there is a flat spot, the
tape may be just what you need for filler, and
grinding the ply might just make matters worse. On a
skinny hull, there really aren't any flats to speak
of, and I doubt you could hide the tape as easily, and
it isn't necesary if you have sheathing.
I once read an article in a UK publication about
fairing epoxy work, from the pen of someone who had
worked extensively with Wharram. I remember being a
little surprised, and in a sense disappointed, that he
used essentially all the tools of a drywall taper, ,
and was really "plastering" all over the place with
Microlight. He certainly was getting nicely faired
surfaces. At the time I hadn't done any drywall work,
but since then I have, and I can understand this
approach better. You don't really gain much in
drywall by trying to fair the joints over a small
area, and the smaller the area, the more sanding you
have to do. Of course drywall compound is nearly
free, and cheapness both about the laborious mixing,
and the price of admission for epoxy products does
make me want to skimp.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
and bending the panels, then there is a flat spot, the
tape may be just what you need for filler, and
grinding the ply might just make matters worse. On a
skinny hull, there really aren't any flats to speak
of, and I doubt you could hide the tape as easily, and
it isn't necesary if you have sheathing.
I once read an article in a UK publication about
fairing epoxy work, from the pen of someone who had
worked extensively with Wharram. I remember being a
little surprised, and in a sense disappointed, that he
used essentially all the tools of a drywall taper, ,
and was really "plastering" all over the place with
Microlight. He certainly was getting nicely faired
surfaces. At the time I hadn't done any drywall work,
but since then I have, and I can understand this
approach better. You don't really gain much in
drywall by trying to fair the joints over a small
area, and the smaller the area, the more sanding you
have to do. Of course drywall compound is nearly
free, and cheapness both about the laborious mixing,
and the price of admission for epoxy products does
make me want to skimp.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
Jeff:
I used to do all my taped joints this way. One time, I was doing a really quick and dirty boat, and I decided to try applying them right on top of the ply, as I have heard suggested. I did not cove or sand the ply at all, and overall, it was a lot less work. I figured the joints would be ugly, but I could not see them at all! Feather the edges a bit, and I challenge you to spot them on the finished product. I used this technique on my Caprice. Try it, you'll like it.
Chuck
<snip> I use a belt sander to hollow out the joint and make space for the tape making fairing much easier. <snip>
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I used to do all my taped joints this way. One time, I was doing a really quick and dirty boat, and I decided to try applying them right on top of the ply, as I have heard suggested. I did not cove or sand the ply at all, and overall, it was a lot less work. I figured the joints would be ugly, but I could not see them at all! Feather the edges a bit, and I challenge you to spot them on the finished product. I used this technique on my Caprice. Try it, you'll like it.
Chuck
<snip> I use a belt sander to hollow out the joint and make space for the tape making fairing much easier. <snip>
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am real fast on boats, but I don't know how
realistic 4 hrs a sheet is? It is a useful estimating
approach, are there any others out in terms of square
feet, or per sheat.
I always like to look at the amount of epoxy the plans
call for, and then imagine mixing in fillers at 5
minute an ounce of epoxy, and 5 minutes an ounce to
apply. Of course there can be convulsive proceedures
like pouring a keel, which chew trough a few gallons
in a quick process. Any other estimating proceedures.
I imagine that epoxying the insides would be a good
bet, though I wouldn't glass them except where there
are structural fillets. Kurt Hughes recomended 3
succesive coats of epoxy on the insides of his multis.
you just roller them on wet one on top of the other,
it is pretty hard to avoid a little Orange peel, and
while it seems like nothing much is happening after
the first coat, close inspection reveals a good build.
Any cockpits need to be glassed.
What do you all figure is the best economical place to
mail order glass boatcloth these days?
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Vince, I have to agree with you on the work it takes
to finish a boat. As I figure it, it's takes as
longer to finish and fit out than to assemble the
hull. And yes, I'm optimistic on the 500 hours
to assemble. Part of that is using Okume which
is a dream to work with and epoxy and part is my
experience on my Tennessee project and very minimal
epoxy/taping. <BR>
<BR>
The Wyo shows butt joints through out and are placed
behind cabinets for the most part so they can't be
seen. I have used these types of joints and on
the outside, I use a belt sander to hollow out the
joint and make space for the tape making fairing much
easier.<BR>
<BR>
All bulkheads in the Wyo have lots of heavy framing
and on the bottom areas it's a 2 1/2" X 3
1/2" piece. These are at the bottom of each
bulkhead and are the transverse stiffeners required on
the Wyo. Some can be incorporated as steps and a
couple will need to be stepped over. There is
plenty of area on all the bulkheads for fasteners and
glue. <BR>
<BR>
Both longitudal stiffeners and side panels are
assembled with 1 1/2" square lumber as gluing
blocks and basically creates two box girders about 2
1/2 feet wide and 10" tall running full length,
one on each side. (lot of storage area
too). <BR>
<BR>
I believe the hull would have to split before a
bulkhead could move. This boat it well
engineered and should take a lot of heavy pounding.
But then it's also very big and weighs 10,000 lbs when
loaded.<BR>
<BR>
As far as the fillets it's only by my way of thinking,
as Mr. Bolger doesn't even mention doing any except in
the cockpits. But then he leaves it up to the
builder to read Paysons book on Instant boats to get
pointers.<BR>
<BR>
By the way, there are just 8 bulkheads in the
Wyo. The cabin sides are narrower by about 3
1/2" inches than the hull all around. With
two 1 1/2" square sheer clamps on the inside of
the hull and a rub rail of the same size all held
together with 1/4" bolts on 14" centers, it
creates a 5" wide ledge to walk a long the sides
with hand holds on the cabin roof. About the
same as my friends 27' sailboat.<BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215839.1778785.3296727.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=868539/R=0/*http://zappos.zappos.com/bin/zapposset?ref=yahoogroups2"><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/za/zappos/zap_468x60slippers0111.gif"
height=60 width=468></a></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=215839.1778785.3296727.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=868539/rand=263224432"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
realistic 4 hrs a sheet is? It is a useful estimating
approach, are there any others out in terms of square
feet, or per sheat.
I always like to look at the amount of epoxy the plans
call for, and then imagine mixing in fillers at 5
minute an ounce of epoxy, and 5 minutes an ounce to
apply. Of course there can be convulsive proceedures
like pouring a keel, which chew trough a few gallons
in a quick process. Any other estimating proceedures.
I imagine that epoxying the insides would be a good
bet, though I wouldn't glass them except where there
are structural fillets. Kurt Hughes recomended 3
succesive coats of epoxy on the insides of his multis.
you just roller them on wet one on top of the other,
it is pretty hard to avoid a little Orange peel, and
while it seems like nothing much is happening after
the first coat, close inspection reveals a good build.
Any cockpits need to be glassed.
What do you all figure is the best economical place to
mail order glass boatcloth these days?
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Vince, I have to agree with you on the work it takes
to finish a boat. As I figure it, it's takes as
longer to finish and fit out than to assemble the
hull. And yes, I'm optimistic on the 500 hours
to assemble. Part of that is using Okume which
is a dream to work with and epoxy and part is my
experience on my Tennessee project and very minimal
epoxy/taping. <BR>
<BR>
The Wyo shows butt joints through out and are placed
behind cabinets for the most part so they can't be
seen. I have used these types of joints and on
the outside, I use a belt sander to hollow out the
joint and make space for the tape making fairing much
easier.<BR>
<BR>
All bulkheads in the Wyo have lots of heavy framing
and on the bottom areas it's a 2 1/2" X 3
1/2" piece. These are at the bottom of each
bulkhead and are the transverse stiffeners required on
the Wyo. Some can be incorporated as steps and a
couple will need to be stepped over. There is
plenty of area on all the bulkheads for fasteners and
glue. <BR>
<BR>
Both longitudal stiffeners and side panels are
assembled with 1 1/2" square lumber as gluing
blocks and basically creates two box girders about 2
1/2 feet wide and 10" tall running full length,
one on each side. (lot of storage area
too). <BR>
<BR>
I believe the hull would have to split before a
bulkhead could move. This boat it well
engineered and should take a lot of heavy pounding.
But then it's also very big and weighs 10,000 lbs when
loaded.<BR>
<BR>
As far as the fillets it's only by my way of thinking,
as Mr. Bolger doesn't even mention doing any except in
the cockpits. But then he leaves it up to the
builder to read Paysons book on Instant boats to get
pointers.<BR>
<BR>
By the way, there are just 8 bulkheads in the
Wyo. The cabin sides are narrower by about 3
1/2" inches than the hull all around. With
two 1 1/2" square sheer clamps on the inside of
the hull and a rub rail of the same size all held
together with 1/4" bolts on 14" centers, it
creates a 5" wide ledge to walk a long the sides
with hand holds on the cabin roof. About the
same as my friends 27' sailboat.<BR>
<BR>
Jeff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215839.1778785.3296727.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=868539/R=0/*http://zappos.zappos.com/bin/zapposset?ref=yahoogroups2"><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/za/zappos/zap_468x60slippers0111.gif"
![http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/za/zappos/zap_468x60slippers0111.gif"](http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/za/zappos/zap_468x60slippers0111.gif"){kind=link}
height=60 width=468></a></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=215839.1778785.3296727.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=868539/rand=263224432"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
I don't see how you can get it to 15000. What is the
other experience out there? A boat this size would
need great weather, or a fairly expensive shed to
build, that can run you. If you can't work
efficiently at night, set up efficient tool stations
etc... it takes forever to build. A nice average is
the same size as your boat length squared, though at
that length that is overkill. But that is just one
hidden cost.
A 50 foot boat is really large. It is a huge
millstone to your non-boating lifestyle. The guys who
made the large demountable Schooner who seem pretty
rugged as far af repeat offenders are concerned, ended
up putting her in storage because the upkeep became excessive.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
other experience out there? A boat this size would
need great weather, or a fairly expensive shed to
build, that can run you. If you can't work
efficiently at night, set up efficient tool stations
etc... it takes forever to build. A nice average is
the same size as your boat length squared, though at
that length that is overkill. But that is just one
hidden cost.
A 50 foot boat is really large. It is a huge
millstone to your non-boating lifestyle. The guys who
made the large demountable Schooner who seem pretty
rugged as far af repeat offenders are concerned, ended
up putting her in storage because the upkeep became excessive.
______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
Jeff,
Thanks for the description. Sounds like you will have one tough boat
when you get her built.
Happy Boat Building in 2002!
Vince Chew
(Now, off to the party!)
Thanks for the description. Sounds like you will have one tough boat
when you get her built.
Happy Boat Building in 2002!
Vince Chew
(Now, off to the party!)
Vince, I have to agree with you on the work it takes to finish a boat. As I figure it, it's takes as longer to finish and fit out than to assemble the hull. And yes, I'm optimistic on the 500 hours to assemble. Part of that is using Okume which is a dream to work with and epoxy and part is my experience on my Tennessee project and very minimal epoxy/taping.
The Wyo shows butt joints through out and are placed behind cabinets for the most part so they can't be seen. I have used these types of joints and on the outside, I use a belt sander to hollow out the joint and make space for the tape making fairing much easier.
All bulkheads in the Wyo have lots of heavy framing and on the bottom areas it's a 2 1/2" X 3 1/2" piece. These are at the bottom of each bulkhead and are the transverse stiffeners required on the Wyo. Some can be incorporated as steps and a couple will need to be stepped over. There is plenty of area on all the bulkheads for fasteners and glue.
Both longitudal stiffeners and side panels are assembled with 1 1/2" square lumber as gluing blocks and basically creates two box girders about 2 1/2 feet wide and 10" tall running full length, one on each side. (lot of storage area too).
I believe the hull would have to split before a bulkhead could move. This boat it well engineered and should take a lot of heavy pounding. But then it's also very big and weighs 10,000 lbs when loaded.
As far as the fillets it's only by my way of thinking, as Mr. Bolger doesn't even mention doing any except in the cockpits. But then he leaves it up to the builder to read Paysons book on Instant boats to get pointers.
By the way, there are just 8 bulkheads in the Wyo. The cabin sides are narrower by about 3 1/2" inches than the hull all around. With two 1 1/2" square sheer clamps on the inside of the hull and a rub rail of the same size all held together with 1/4" bolts on 14" centers, it creates a 5" wide ledge to walk a long the sides with hand holds on the cabin roof. About the same as my friends 27' sailboat.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Wyo shows butt joints through out and are placed behind cabinets for the most part so they can't be seen. I have used these types of joints and on the outside, I use a belt sander to hollow out the joint and make space for the tape making fairing much easier.
All bulkheads in the Wyo have lots of heavy framing and on the bottom areas it's a 2 1/2" X 3 1/2" piece. These are at the bottom of each bulkhead and are the transverse stiffeners required on the Wyo. Some can be incorporated as steps and a couple will need to be stepped over. There is plenty of area on all the bulkheads for fasteners and glue.
Both longitudal stiffeners and side panels are assembled with 1 1/2" square lumber as gluing blocks and basically creates two box girders about 2 1/2 feet wide and 10" tall running full length, one on each side. (lot of storage area too).
I believe the hull would have to split before a bulkhead could move. This boat it well engineered and should take a lot of heavy pounding. But then it's also very big and weighs 10,000 lbs when loaded.
As far as the fillets it's only by my way of thinking, as Mr. Bolger doesn't even mention doing any except in the cockpits. But then he leaves it up to the builder to read Paysons book on Instant boats to get pointers.
By the way, there are just 8 bulkheads in the Wyo. The cabin sides are narrower by about 3 1/2" inches than the hull all around. With two 1 1/2" square sheer clamps on the inside of the hull and a rub rail of the same size all held together with 1/4" bolts on 14" centers, it creates a 5" wide ledge to walk a long the sides with hand holds on the cabin roof. About the same as my friends 27' sailboat.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It takes 75 sheets of 1/2" plywood. Maranti 6566 would set you back about $45 a sheet, Okume 1066 about $80 a sheet. A rough estimate is about $9500 with Okume including epoxy and fiberglass and structural lumber and windows. About $4000 for plumbing, fuel tanks, batteries, electrical, solar panels, etc. Another $10,000 for motor(s). With things you don't think of and such, I figure it can be put together for under $25,000.
I exaggerate the cost so my expectations and plans don't get stalled out in the middle of such projects.
Reality says if you scrounge prices, willing to snoop around junkyards for things, go with Bolger's "don't look down" head, willing to pump water manually, go to twin 25 HP motors, etc you could build the Wyo for $15,000 and have a nice boat.
At $15,000 you could probably get you money back, at $25,000 probably not. But to buy an existing boat with the same room and performance for cruising I'm sure you'd spend $100,000 or more by time it was refitted and in "like new" shape. You'd never find one for river running as economical either. All in all, it'll be a wash as far as cost and that's the best one can hope for with boats.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I exaggerate the cost so my expectations and plans don't get stalled out in the middle of such projects.
Reality says if you scrounge prices, willing to snoop around junkyards for things, go with Bolger's "don't look down" head, willing to pump water manually, go to twin 25 HP motors, etc you could build the Wyo for $15,000 and have a nice boat.
At $15,000 you could probably get you money back, at $25,000 probably not. But to buy an existing boat with the same room and performance for cruising I'm sure you'd spend $100,000 or more by time it was refitted and in "like new" shape. You'd never find one for river running as economical either. All in all, it'll be a wash as far as cost and that's the best one can hope for with boats.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff,
On my Dakota (38 ft. Wyoming type power sharpie) I did all of my
splicing and fiberglassing of bottom and side panels laid out flat
before bending them onto the hull as you describe. It is definitely the
way to go. However, if you don't have room to splice the 6 & 1/2 sheets
of ply (52 ft.), you have to do some splicing in place or use butt
straps. This means a rather tough time fairing the plywood seams.
Regarding your 500 hour prediction m-m-m-m, well. Working alone, I have
well over 1000 hours in it so far and I am just getting into electrical,
plumbing, steering and motor controls. No painting done yet. I can see
that I will have nearly as much time in finishing it from its current
stage as I have into it already. I have the hull and cabin complete with
cabinetry, drawers, etc. The cabin ceiling and support beams are
installed, but I am leaving the outer cabin top panels off until all
wiring is done as some wiring will go between ceiling and roof.
You mentioned "no taped seams" and "1 1/2" frames around bulkhead". I
can't say about Wyoming, but my plans for Dakota don't call for framing
around the bulkheads. I simply fit the plywood panels held in place with
2 or 3 box nails (temporary) and permanent 2 x 2 floor cleats, then
mixed up some epoxy putty for fillets and set 9 oz pre-wet-out glass
tape into the fillets before they kicked off. It is much stronger,
lighter, and quicker than making frames around the bulkheads. You don't
have to be concerned about getting the fillets really neat, because when
you press the wet tape into the wet fillet with gloved hands and a
squeegee, it is easy to smooth out. It looks better, doesn't need
fasteners through the hull and cabin sides, and doesn't require notching
of cabinetry later.
Good luck with your project.
Vince Chew
On my Dakota (38 ft. Wyoming type power sharpie) I did all of my
splicing and fiberglassing of bottom and side panels laid out flat
before bending them onto the hull as you describe. It is definitely the
way to go. However, if you don't have room to splice the 6 & 1/2 sheets
of ply (52 ft.), you have to do some splicing in place or use butt
straps. This means a rather tough time fairing the plywood seams.
Regarding your 500 hour prediction m-m-m-m, well. Working alone, I have
well over 1000 hours in it so far and I am just getting into electrical,
plumbing, steering and motor controls. No painting done yet. I can see
that I will have nearly as much time in finishing it from its current
stage as I have into it already. I have the hull and cabin complete with
cabinetry, drawers, etc. The cabin ceiling and support beams are
installed, but I am leaving the outer cabin top panels off until all
wiring is done as some wiring will go between ceiling and roof.
You mentioned "no taped seams" and "1 1/2" frames around bulkhead". I
can't say about Wyoming, but my plans for Dakota don't call for framing
around the bulkheads. I simply fit the plywood panels held in place with
2 or 3 box nails (temporary) and permanent 2 x 2 floor cleats, then
mixed up some epoxy putty for fillets and set 9 oz pre-wet-out glass
tape into the fillets before they kicked off. It is much stronger,
lighter, and quicker than making frames around the bulkheads. You don't
have to be concerned about getting the fillets really neat, because when
you press the wet tape into the wet fillet with gloved hands and a
squeegee, it is easy to smooth out. It looks better, doesn't need
fasteners through the hull and cabin sides, and doesn't require notching
of cabinetry later.
Good luck with your project.
Vince Chew
Jeff --
What your cost estimate? How much of that is the fancy plywood?
TIA
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
What your cost estimate? How much of that is the fancy plywood?
TIA
David
>After a week of serious viewing the new Wyo plans, I am impressedC.E.P.
>with the ease at which a very large boat can be built.
>
>Almost no seam taping, fillets only to stop water from standing in
>corners. Each bulkhead, seam, etc. is backed up with 1 1/2" square
>frames or larger.
>
>With a bit of planning, all parts can be cut, epoxy and/or glassed as
>need before assembly using a small garage. Assembly could literally
>be done in a few full days of work with a couple strong helpers. (I
>have 5 sons, teenagers and older.) After assembly, jack up one side
>at a time just enough to finish the chines and bottom seams.
>
>Still, a large project, but I think she can be assembled in 500
>hours. Another 500 hours or more for fit out and finish work.
>
>That's the real genius of Mr. Bolger! Ya just gotta love it!
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
My estimate of time does includes epoxy/glass coating the exterior only. Using good marine ply such as Okume or Maranti, just varnish or paint the interior. (Except where water could stand such as tanks and chain locker.)
The Wyo has excellent air flow throughout all areas. Air flows from very front of the bow through every part of the hull all the way out the rear cabin area.
Work boat finish too. It's for cruising and bumping about on docks, shores, etc. No reason to make it a show boat, you'd just worry about the scratches and such and not use the boat as intended. A good neat and clean finish with durable paint for me.
Though a Bolger box boat may not be savory to some people in looks, they are functional, comparatively easy to build, and have a certain quaintness about them at the same time.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Wyo has excellent air flow throughout all areas. Air flows from very front of the bow through every part of the hull all the way out the rear cabin area.
Work boat finish too. It's for cruising and bumping about on docks, shores, etc. No reason to make it a show boat, you'd just worry about the scratches and such and not use the boat as intended. A good neat and clean finish with durable paint for me.
Though a Bolger box boat may not be savory to some people in looks, they are functional, comparatively easy to build, and have a certain quaintness about them at the same time.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Still, a large project, but I think she can be assembled in 500I think this is what makes reading Bolger so much fun. With other
>hours. Another 500 hours or more for fit out and finish work.
>
>That's the real genius of Mr. Bolger! Ya just gotta love it!
boats you fantasize, with a big Bolger box you ENVISION! Nothing
quite as thrilling as thinking "Hey, with a little hard work I could
have a 50 foot boat!
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
After a week of serious viewing the new Wyo plans, I am impressed
with the ease at which a very large boat can be built.
Almost no seam taping, fillets only to stop water from standing in
corners. Each bulkhead, seam, etc. is backed up with 1 1/2" square
frames or larger.
With a bit of planning, all parts can be cut, epoxy and/or glassed as
need before assembly using a small garage. Assembly could literally
be done in a few full days of work with a couple strong helpers. (I
have 5 sons, teenagers and older.) After assembly, jack up one side
at a time just enough to finish the chines and bottom seams.
Still, a large project, but I think she can be assembled in 500
hours. Another 500 hours or more for fit out and finish work.
That's the real genius of Mr. Bolger! Ya just gotta love it!
Jeff
with the ease at which a very large boat can be built.
Almost no seam taping, fillets only to stop water from standing in
corners. Each bulkhead, seam, etc. is backed up with 1 1/2" square
frames or larger.
With a bit of planning, all parts can be cut, epoxy and/or glassed as
need before assembly using a small garage. Assembly could literally
be done in a few full days of work with a couple strong helpers. (I
have 5 sons, teenagers and older.) After assembly, jack up one side
at a time just enough to finish the chines and bottom seams.
Still, a large project, but I think she can be assembled in 500
hours. Another 500 hours or more for fit out and finish work.
That's the real genius of Mr. Bolger! Ya just gotta love it!
Jeff
Good question! I'm not sure we would need 3 weeks but we envision
doing a lot of idling along staying put for weeks at a time. We
would like to head out into the FL Keys or backwaters of LA,
Tombigbee, St. Lawrence and the Great Lakes. Many of the river
travels will not include pump out stations close together. We'd also
like the ability just to relax and do nothing, maybe explore a whole
area, and Murphy's Law dictates it'll be somewhere that doesn't have
a pump out station or fresh water.
Being able to hide away for 2 weeks at a time is part of our dream.
While less than 2 weeks is realistic, 3 weeks of self containment is
just a comfort zone.
Jeff
doing a lot of idling along staying put for weeks at a time. We
would like to head out into the FL Keys or backwaters of LA,
Tombigbee, St. Lawrence and the Great Lakes. Many of the river
travels will not include pump out stations close together. We'd also
like the ability just to relax and do nothing, maybe explore a whole
area, and Murphy's Law dictates it'll be somewhere that doesn't have
a pump out station or fresh water.
Being able to hide away for 2 weeks at a time is part of our dream.
While less than 2 weeks is realistic, 3 weeks of self containment is
just a comfort zone.
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> I'm curious about the need for three weeks of self-sufficiency in
your
> proposed cruise. It's not like you are going to be far from
civilization
> anywhere on the ICW or any of the rivers draining the central US.
What's
> driving that requirement?
>
> Glad to see you are interested in Wyoh again. Keep us posted.
>
> JB
>
>
I'm curious about the need for three weeks of self-sufficiency in your
proposed cruise. It's not like you are going to be far from civilization
anywhere on the ICW or any of the rivers draining the central US. What's
driving that requirement?
Glad to see you are interested in Wyoh again. Keep us posted.
JB
proposed cruise. It's not like you are going to be far from civilization
anywhere on the ICW or any of the rivers draining the central US. What's
driving that requirement?
Glad to see you are interested in Wyoh again. Keep us posted.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyoming
| First off, I'm yet again bouncing back and forth between the Wyo and the
CC29. The CC29 has everything going for it but load ability if we want to
stay out more than 10 days with out rationing. On our proposed cruise of
the ICW and Rivers, we want to be able to be self-sufficient for up to 3
weeks or more. We could purchase a water maker for fresh water and make
distasteful and illegal dumps on the septic tanks but that's not pratical or
fitting with our thoughts.
|
--- In bolger@y..., Vince and Mary Ann Chew <vachew@v...> wrote:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wyoming.htm
The PB&F power sharpie which I really covet is the Idaho. :)
> Could you post a link?I have a copy of the MAIB article at URL:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/wyoming.htm
The PB&F power sharpie which I really covet is the Idaho. :)
Jeff,
I remember seeing an updated Wyoming in MAIB, but I have searched the
files and photos in Bolger2 and I don't find one. I found an updated
Dakota, but no Wyoming. Could you post a link?
Vince Chew
Jeff wrote:
............After seeing the updates to the Wyoming posted in
the Boger2 group, I
ordered and just received my copy of the updated
plans from Mr.
Bolger.
I remember seeing an updated Wyoming in MAIB, but I have searched the
files and photos in Bolger2 and I don't find one. I found an updated
Dakota, but no Wyoming. Could you post a link?
Vince Chew
Jeff wrote:
............After seeing the updates to the Wyoming posted in
the Boger2 group, I
ordered and just received my copy of the updated
plans from Mr.
Bolger.
First off, I'm yet again bouncing back and forth between the Wyo and the CC29. The CC29 has everything going for it but load ability if we want to stay out more than 10 days with out rationing. On our proposed cruise of the ICW and Rivers, we want to be able to be self-sufficient for up to 3 weeks or more. We could purchase a water maker for fresh water and make distasteful and illegal dumps on the septic tanks but that's not pratical or fitting with our thoughts.
Frankly, if the order for my 40 sheets of 1/4" Okume for the CC29 had not gotten canceled by the supplier, (he could not fill it in a timely fashion) it would not be an issue but it did and now here my wife and I are again, indecision, indecision, it's enough to make you want to just buy a plastic boat and go.....not really, I'm a builder and wish to build my cruiser.
We ordered the updated version for the WYO and like it, so we'll spend a couple weeks doing the math and letting logic and operating cost dictate rather than emotion.
As far as the head goes, the group has discussed more on the side of composting heads rather than what I perceive Mr. Bolger calling a "Portable Outhouse" so to say. No composting, just a way to store until a pump out. I don't relish the thought of having a "Port-O-Let" style head on a boat but it has the promise if absolute simplicity as long as it wouldn't have a constant odor.
The Wyo has always been a dream boat of mine, but practical maybe not. The difference between berthing a 50' versus a 29' is significant. Maybe being able to stay out longer between pump outs and fresh water refills would make up the difference.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Frankly, if the order for my 40 sheets of 1/4" Okume for the CC29 had not gotten canceled by the supplier, (he could not fill it in a timely fashion) it would not be an issue but it did and now here my wife and I are again, indecision, indecision, it's enough to make you want to just buy a plastic boat and go.....not really, I'm a builder and wish to build my cruiser.
We ordered the updated version for the WYO and like it, so we'll spend a couple weeks doing the math and letting logic and operating cost dictate rather than emotion.
As far as the head goes, the group has discussed more on the side of composting heads rather than what I perceive Mr. Bolger calling a "Portable Outhouse" so to say. No composting, just a way to store until a pump out. I don't relish the thought of having a "Port-O-Let" style head on a boat but it has the promise if absolute simplicity as long as it wouldn't have a constant odor.
The Wyo has always been a dream boat of mine, but practical maybe not. The difference between berthing a 50' versus a 29' is significant. Maybe being able to stay out longer between pump outs and fresh water refills would make up the difference.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry Jeff but the head discussion is on this group #16225
Steve Bosquette
Steve Bosquette
--- In bolger@y..., "sneakeasy2000" <sneakeasy2000@y...> wrote:
> Hi Jeff
> Two things! First I am excited to see someone building a Wyoming.
I
> am current building a Sneakeasy
>http://www.geocities.com/sneakeasy2000/index.html,with future
plans
> to build Idaho or Dakota and then for retirement, Wyoming. It will
> be interesting to watch your progress. Second, on another Yahoo
> group "wooden powerboats" there has been a long discussion about
the
> type of head you mentioned. You may want to check it out!
> What part of the country are you in?
>
> Steve Bosquette
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "jhbjap" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > After seeing the updates to the Wyoming posted in the Boger2
group,
> I
> > ordered and just received my copy of the updated plans from Mr.
> > Bolger.
> >
> > A couple important things that I noted right away is that the
rear
> > cabin is small but very functional for double beds. The head area
> is
> > huge by boat standards and looks to have enough tankage and
storage
> > for at least of 30 days of self-sufficiency.
> >
> > Ample room for fuel storage well vented. With 200 gallons and
> moving
> > at hull speeds, I believe 1000 miles to a fill up is a real
number
> if
> > not overly conservative.
> >
> > The center cockpit is self draining and high sided for good
> security
> > and line handling should not be a problem. Front cockpit is
small
> > but again, makes it safe for line handling and anchoring, and
it's
> > also self draining.
> >
> > Draft is increased to 6" inches at about 10,000 lbs
displacement.
> An
> > empty boat looks to be around 6000-6500 lbs. I don't believe you
> > could go over the 10,000 lbs and expect to handle well in any
kind
> of
> > heavy head seas but if used on a river, you could probably add
> > another 1000 lbs of gear with little effect on speed or handling.
> >
> > When I had asked about sloping the windshield for a more modern
> look,
> > Mr. Bolger stated he'd rather see it sloped forward than back, no
> > changes other than common sense needed to make it slope forward
5 -
> > 10 degrees.
> >
> > He recommends photo cells along the the roof since it's big
enough
> > and no one would walk up there for any reason. In the long run,
> > cheaper than a generator if used as a live aboard.
> >
> > One note:
> >
> > He mentions a "don't look down" type of head with no flushing and
a
> > 12v exhaust fan which is activated when the sealed lid is lifted
to
> > eliminate the odors. No flushing, no clogging, no parts to wear
> out
> > and could be pumped out through the seat or a fitting out the
side
> of
> > the hull. Does anyone know how these are built? Is it simply
> a "out
> > house" design? Not real appealing but simplistic and reliable.
> >
> > Jeff
Hi Jeff
Two things! First I am excited to see someone building a Wyoming. I
am current building a Sneakeasy
http://www.geocities.com/sneakeasy2000/index.html,with future plans
to build Idaho or Dakota and then for retirement, Wyoming. It will
be interesting to watch your progress. Second, on another Yahoo
group "wooden powerboats" there has been a long discussion about the
type of head you mentioned. You may want to check it out!
What part of the country are you in?
Steve Bosquette
Two things! First I am excited to see someone building a Wyoming. I
am current building a Sneakeasy
http://www.geocities.com/sneakeasy2000/index.html,with future plans
to build Idaho or Dakota and then for retirement, Wyoming. It will
be interesting to watch your progress. Second, on another Yahoo
group "wooden powerboats" there has been a long discussion about the
type of head you mentioned. You may want to check it out!
What part of the country are you in?
Steve Bosquette
--- In bolger@y..., "jhbjap" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> After seeing the updates to the Wyoming posted in the Boger2 group,
I
> ordered and just received my copy of the updated plans from Mr.
> Bolger.
>
> A couple important things that I noted right away is that the rear
> cabin is small but very functional for double beds. The head area
is
> huge by boat standards and looks to have enough tankage and storage
> for at least of 30 days of self-sufficiency.
>
> Ample room for fuel storage well vented. With 200 gallons and
moving
> at hull speeds, I believe 1000 miles to a fill up is a real number
if
> not overly conservative.
>
> The center cockpit is self draining and high sided for good
security
> and line handling should not be a problem. Front cockpit is small
> but again, makes it safe for line handling and anchoring, and it's
> also self draining.
>
> Draft is increased to 6" inches at about 10,000 lbs displacement.
An
> empty boat looks to be around 6000-6500 lbs. I don't believe you
> could go over the 10,000 lbs and expect to handle well in any kind
of
> heavy head seas but if used on a river, you could probably add
> another 1000 lbs of gear with little effect on speed or handling.
>
> When I had asked about sloping the windshield for a more modern
look,
> Mr. Bolger stated he'd rather see it sloped forward than back, no
> changes other than common sense needed to make it slope forward 5 -
> 10 degrees.
>
> He recommends photo cells along the the roof since it's big enough
> and no one would walk up there for any reason. In the long run,
> cheaper than a generator if used as a live aboard.
>
> One note:
>
> He mentions a "don't look down" type of head with no flushing and a
> 12v exhaust fan which is activated when the sealed lid is lifted to
> eliminate the odors. No flushing, no clogging, no parts to wear
out
> and could be pumped out through the seat or a fitting out the side
of
> the hull. Does anyone know how these are built? Is it simply
a "out
> house" design? Not real appealing but simplistic and reliable.
>
> Jeff
After seeing the updates to the Wyoming posted in the Boger2 group, I
ordered and just received my copy of the updated plans from Mr.
Bolger.
A couple important things that I noted right away is that the rear
cabin is small but very functional for double beds. The head area is
huge by boat standards and looks to have enough tankage and storage
for at least of 30 days of self-sufficiency.
Ample room for fuel storage well vented. With 200 gallons and moving
at hull speeds, I believe 1000 miles to a fill up is a real number if
not overly conservative.
The center cockpit is self draining and high sided for good security
and line handling should not be a problem. Front cockpit is small
but again, makes it safe for line handling and anchoring, and it's
also self draining.
Draft is increased to 6" inches at about 10,000 lbs displacement. An
empty boat looks to be around 6000-6500 lbs. I don't believe you
could go over the 10,000 lbs and expect to handle well in any kind of
heavy head seas but if used on a river, you could probably add
another 1000 lbs of gear with little effect on speed or handling.
When I had asked about sloping the windshield for a more modern look,
Mr. Bolger stated he'd rather see it sloped forward than back, no
changes other than common sense needed to make it slope forward 5 -
10 degrees.
He recommends photo cells along the the roof since it's big enough
and no one would walk up there for any reason. In the long run,
cheaper than a generator if used as a live aboard.
One note:
He mentions a "don't look down" type of head with no flushing and a
12v exhaust fan which is activated when the sealed lid is lifted to
eliminate the odors. No flushing, no clogging, no parts to wear out
and could be pumped out through the seat or a fitting out the side of
the hull. Does anyone know how these are built? Is it simply a "out
house" design? Not real appealing but simplistic and reliable.
Jeff
ordered and just received my copy of the updated plans from Mr.
Bolger.
A couple important things that I noted right away is that the rear
cabin is small but very functional for double beds. The head area is
huge by boat standards and looks to have enough tankage and storage
for at least of 30 days of self-sufficiency.
Ample room for fuel storage well vented. With 200 gallons and moving
at hull speeds, I believe 1000 miles to a fill up is a real number if
not overly conservative.
The center cockpit is self draining and high sided for good security
and line handling should not be a problem. Front cockpit is small
but again, makes it safe for line handling and anchoring, and it's
also self draining.
Draft is increased to 6" inches at about 10,000 lbs displacement. An
empty boat looks to be around 6000-6500 lbs. I don't believe you
could go over the 10,000 lbs and expect to handle well in any kind of
heavy head seas but if used on a river, you could probably add
another 1000 lbs of gear with little effect on speed or handling.
When I had asked about sloping the windshield for a more modern look,
Mr. Bolger stated he'd rather see it sloped forward than back, no
changes other than common sense needed to make it slope forward 5 -
10 degrees.
He recommends photo cells along the the roof since it's big enough
and no one would walk up there for any reason. In the long run,
cheaper than a generator if used as a live aboard.
One note:
He mentions a "don't look down" type of head with no flushing and a
12v exhaust fan which is activated when the sealed lid is lifted to
eliminate the odors. No flushing, no clogging, no parts to wear out
and could be pumped out through the seat or a fitting out the side of
the hull. Does anyone know how these are built? Is it simply a "out
house" design? Not real appealing but simplistic and reliable.
Jeff