Re: [bolger] Illinois!!!

I always liked Jim Browns comments regarding the
anvil chorus: "They always say they wanted a really
big boat, so they could carry a lot of gas, for their
engine" Words he hears while ghosting along in his
tri. Does raise the issue of the Yanmar Endevour. A
35' trimaran, that outboarded it accross the Pacific.
Low resistance is where it is at.

>I have commented on this before. We get a lot of
transient cruisers (SE<BR>
AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers.
I fly for a living<BR>
and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up.

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> I suppose I could reduce the size of the king bed to a queen

The size of the bed is determined by the size of the pilot house
floor [causing low headroom] from above. Though I am sure you could
figure out a way to make a door, it just wouldn't be full height.
>> 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
>> the kitchen to the forecastle?
>
>No, I don't think there is anything other than perhaps a curtain.
>The PB&F commentary describes the bunks being for visits from the
>grandchildren, which presumably would not happen every week.

I suppose I could reduce the size of the king bed to a queen or even
a full to pick up a little room for a solid partition. And a smaller
bed would make it hard for my wife to get away from me!

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:

> 1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in
particular?

The PB&F plans call that area a "Hold". I imagine it as where I
would store my bicycle, and other junk.


> 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
> the kitchen to the forecastle?

No, I don't think there is anything other than perhaps a curtain.
The PB&F commentary describes the bunks being for visits from the
grandchildren, which presumably would not happen every week.
David,

I think under the aft deck is tankage?

The mastersuite is below the offset deckhouse, which hangs down into
the mastersuite, meaning no standing headroom there. The corridor to
get from galley forward has full headroom and it seems that a bearing
wall separates it from the master, carrying the port side of the
deckhouse down to the hull bottom.

Leastwise that's what I see.

Best way for us all to find out is, you buy the plans, build her, and
send photos!

Rick

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> My wife and I have been studying the plans for this great beast and
I
> can figure out a couple of things.
>
> 1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in
particular?
>
> 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
> the kitchen to the forecastle?
>
> If you can read these drawing any better than I, let me know what
you see.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> >I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient
cruisers
(SE
> >AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a
living
> >and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for
amazed
> >comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the
sails
up!"
> >In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.
> >
> >HJ
> >
> >Hal Lynch wrote:
> >>
> >
> >> For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB
that in
> >> most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the
auxiliary
> >> seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me
that
a
> >> boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
> >>
> >> hal
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
My wife and I have been studying the plans for this great beast and I
can figure out a couple of things.

1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in particular?

2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
the kitchen to the forecastle?

If you can read these drawing any better than I, let me know what you see.

YIBB,

David

>I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient cruisers (SE
>AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a living
>and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for amazed
>comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the sails up!"
>In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.
>
>HJ
>
>Hal Lynch wrote:
>>
>
>> For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
>> most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
>> seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
>> boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
>>
>> hal
>>
>> --
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient cruisers (SE
AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a living
and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for amazed
comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the sails up!"
In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.

HJ

Hal Lynch wrote:
>

> For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
> most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
> seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
> boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
>
> hal
>
> --
On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 03:54 PM, David Ryan wrote:

Stuff deleted

> Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
> plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
> spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
> and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
> affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
> roominess or performance under power?

For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.

hal
Sam Devlin Suggested that was the reason to own a
houseboat, same kind of idea.
--- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
One of our thoughts around this part of the world (SE
Alaska) has been<BR>
that the reason to own a big power sharpie is to pack
lots of small<BR>

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
One of our thoughts around this part of the world (SE Alaska) has been
that the reason to own a big power sharpie is to pack lots of small
Bolger Boats from anchorage to anchorage, and that's when the adventure
begins, rowing, sailing and poking around creeks, channels, inlets and
islands.

Hj

David Ryan wrote:
>
> FBBB --
>
> At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
> boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
> motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:
>
> 1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
> oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
> simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
> boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
> status or romance accompanies that is incidental.
>
> 2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.
>
> However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
> inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
> be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
> fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.
>
> Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
> magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
> I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
> hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
> myself without giving up my day job or my equity.
>
> Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
> Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
> where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
> own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
> "casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
> the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
> boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
> sailed.
>
> Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
> plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
> spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
> and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
> affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
> roominess or performance under power?
>
> For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
> lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
> there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
> than dreaming about it.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
My observation is that a sailboat is a means of travel and a
powerboat is a means of getting to a destination.

PHV

p.s. I got a message from geocities saying that the popularity of my
site caused more traffic than they allot for free. So, if you were
not able to view the pictures of Arava and Schorpioen, try again in a
couple of days. The .jpg's are pretty big because I like to keep the
fine print on the drawing visible if I can.

"Single Eagle with traing wheels" Good line!
I was thinking a pair of PWCs would fit very nicely in place for
skiff atop Illinois!

>Great,
>no sooner do we start to make some headway against the
>PWCs with 12 weight fly rods and torpedo nets than we
>have this noisy abomination to deal with:
>
>;o)
>
>"However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East
>Coast's great
>inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a
>boat needs to
>be, or should be on their head. I have discovered
>sharpies -- cheap,
>fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances"
>
>______________________________________________________
>Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Great,
no sooner do we start to make some headway against the
PWCs with 12 weight fly rods and torpedo nets than we
have this noisy abomination to deal with:

;o)

"However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East
Coast's great
inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a
boat needs to
be, or should be on their head. I have discovered
sharpies -- cheap,
fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances"

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca
Yes, my point exactly. With a boat like the Illinois you could enjoy
your sailing without having it ruining your time on the water!

Of course such logic is dangerous. Too much of it and you end up
deciding you don't need a boat at all :-(

YIBB,

David


>And you can always tow the LSME behind her.
>
>Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Ryan
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:54 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Illinois!!!
>
>
> FBBB --
>
> At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
> boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
> motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:
>
> 1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
> oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
> simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
> boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
> status or romance accompanies that is incidental.
>
> 2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.
>
> However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
> inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
> be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
> fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.
>
> Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
> magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
> I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
> hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
> myself without giving up my day job or my equity.
>
> Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
> Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
> where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
> own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
> "casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
> the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
> boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
> sailed.
>
> Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
> plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
> spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
> and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
> affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
> roominess or performance under power?
>
> For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
> lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
> there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
> than dreaming about it.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
David:

And you can always tow the LSME behind her.

Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: [bolger] Illinois!!!


FBBB --

At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:

1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
status or romance accompanies that is incidental.

2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.

However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.

Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
myself without giving up my day job or my equity.

Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
"casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
sailed.

Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
roominess or performance under power?

For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
than dreaming about it.

YIBB,

David


C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
FBBB --

At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:

1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
status or romance accompanies that is incidental.

2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.

However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.

Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
myself without giving up my day job or my equity.

Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
"casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
sailed.

Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
roominess or performance under power?

For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
than dreaming about it.

YIBB,

David


C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296