Re: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'
Hand wrought iron is full of silacious slag and was smelted with charcoal,
clean. The slag is what gives wrought iron its timber like grain. Thats the
major visible difference between wrought iron and mild steel. Steel has a
crystalline structure, no grain at all.
Wrought iron from the industrial age was smelted with coal which led to the
inclusion of sulphur in the iron, not desirable at all. I have a pile of
genuine wrought iron from that era, when its cleaned bright it rusts
readily, but once it has a surface coating of rust the rusting process slows
down. I forge for a hobby and I might make some iron nails to experiment.
Where does one get hundred year old wrought iron ? Buggy axles, thats where.
And yes, the "wrought Iron" of today is mild steel not iron at all.
clean. The slag is what gives wrought iron its timber like grain. Thats the
major visible difference between wrought iron and mild steel. Steel has a
crystalline structure, no grain at all.
Wrought iron from the industrial age was smelted with coal which led to the
inclusion of sulphur in the iron, not desirable at all. I have a pile of
genuine wrought iron from that era, when its cleaned bright it rusts
readily, but once it has a surface coating of rust the rusting process slows
down. I forge for a hobby and I might make some iron nails to experiment.
Where does one get hundred year old wrought iron ? Buggy axles, thats where.
And yes, the "wrought Iron" of today is mild steel not iron at all.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'
> The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
> Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
> manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
> I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
> and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
> find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
> iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
> and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
> > ...
> > The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
> > iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
> > corrosion.
>
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope?
> If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't. <G. B. Shaw>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Wrought iron comes out of swamps. I don't know any more than that though.
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 4/1/02 9:56 PM,jhkohnen@...atjhkohnen@...wrote:
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 4/1/02 9:56 PM,jhkohnen@...atjhkohnen@...wrote:
> The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
> Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
> manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
> I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
> and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
> find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
> iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
> and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
>> ...
>> The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
>> iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
>> corrosion.
>
The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
> ...
> The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
> iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
> corrosion.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope?
If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't. <G. B. Shaw>
The days when Popular Mechanics was worth reading. "Build your own backyard
nuclear reactor " , that sort of thing.
nuclear reactor " , that sort of thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "vexatious2001" <cadbury@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Hot dipped zinc
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > David:
> >
> > I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from
> shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid
> dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux
> before dipping.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
>
> Oh, Chuck, you aint half as dangerous as I am!
>
> I am looking at an old Popular Mechanics article
> entitled (and I kid-you-not) "Hot-Dip Galvanizing
> in Your Own Kitchen" (sure to make you popular with
> the wife.)
>
> To summarize, after all paint or previous galvanizing
> is removed (burning suggested), the the items are boiled
> in a solution of sodium carbonate (two tablespoons per quart
> of water; boil 5 to 10 minutes; season to taste); then rinse
> in warm water and dry (hair dryer); do not touch with bare
> hands or ya'll get oil on 'em; Then submerge the part
> in hydrochloric acid (borrow from neighbors?) for an hour
> or so until the item has a uniform grey (gray?) color; then
> rinse thouroughly with cold water and dry (hair dryer again)
> Since the metal will start to oxidize almost immediately,
> you should have your pot of molten zinc all prepared( melts
> @ 787 degrees F but the author recommends 820 degrees F)
> Skim scum off top of zinc, sprinkle a little sal ammoniac on
> the zinc, and to quote here, "plunge" the part into the
> zinc. Leave part in the zinc until it is as hot as the
> zinc (remember the 820 degrees?). When the part is ready
> to come out, skim the scum and do the sal ammoniac again,
> reach into the zinc (with tongs, he says), grab the dang
> thing and pull it out, let the zinc drip a moment, and
> plunge (he likes that word) into cold water.
>
> The author also mentions poision fumes and ventilation,
> but as my wife will have long-since killed me for galvanizing
> her kitchen, I don't really see the point.
>
> Bye
>
> Max
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux
before dipping.
I am looking at an old Popular Mechanics article
entitled (and I kid-you-not) "Hot-Dip Galvanizing
in Your Own Kitchen" (sure to make you popular with
the wife.)
To summarize, after all paint or previous galvanizing
is removed (burning suggested), the the items are boiled
in a solution of sodium carbonate (two tablespoons per quart
of water; boil 5 to 10 minutes; season to taste); then rinse
in warm water and dry (hair dryer); do not touch with bare
hands or ya'll get oil on 'em; Then submerge the part
in hydrochloric acid (borrow from neighbors?) for an hour
or so until the item has a uniform grey (gray?) color; then
rinse thouroughly with cold water and dry (hair dryer again)
Since the metal will start to oxidize almost immediately,
you should have your pot of molten zinc all prepared( melts
@ 787 degrees F but the author recommends 820 degrees F)
Skim scum off top of zinc, sprinkle a little sal ammoniac on
the zinc, and to quote here, "plunge" the part into the
zinc. Leave part in the zinc until it is as hot as the
zinc (remember the 820 degrees?). When the part is ready
to come out, skim the scum and do the sal ammoniac again,
reach into the zinc (with tongs, he says), grab the dang
thing and pull it out, let the zinc drip a moment, and
plunge (he likes that word) into cold water.
The author also mentions poision fumes and ventilation,
but as my wife will have long-since killed me for galvanizing
her kitchen, I don't really see the point.
Bye
Max
> David:shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid
>
> I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from
dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux
before dipping.
>Oh, Chuck, you aint half as dangerous as I am!
> Chuck
>
I am looking at an old Popular Mechanics article
entitled (and I kid-you-not) "Hot-Dip Galvanizing
in Your Own Kitchen" (sure to make you popular with
the wife.)
To summarize, after all paint or previous galvanizing
is removed (burning suggested), the the items are boiled
in a solution of sodium carbonate (two tablespoons per quart
of water; boil 5 to 10 minutes; season to taste); then rinse
in warm water and dry (hair dryer); do not touch with bare
hands or ya'll get oil on 'em; Then submerge the part
in hydrochloric acid (borrow from neighbors?) for an hour
or so until the item has a uniform grey (gray?) color; then
rinse thouroughly with cold water and dry (hair dryer again)
Since the metal will start to oxidize almost immediately,
you should have your pot of molten zinc all prepared( melts
@ 787 degrees F but the author recommends 820 degrees F)
Skim scum off top of zinc, sprinkle a little sal ammoniac on
the zinc, and to quote here, "plunge" the part into the
zinc. Leave part in the zinc until it is as hot as the
zinc (remember the 820 degrees?). When the part is ready
to come out, skim the scum and do the sal ammoniac again,
reach into the zinc (with tongs, he says), grab the dang
thing and pull it out, let the zinc drip a moment, and
plunge (he likes that word) into cold water.
The author also mentions poision fumes and ventilation,
but as my wife will have long-since killed me for galvanizing
her kitchen, I don't really see the point.
Bye
Max
David:
I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux before dipping.
Chuck
anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old
anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?
da
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux before dipping.
Chuck
anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old
anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?
da
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old
anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?
da
anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?
da
Yes Bill, my father bought a flat bottomed dinghy that had been converted to
a cabin boat (dont ask, it was cheap) some years ago and made the mistake of
using a zinc coated hardware screw to repair a small area. I think it lasted
three months and became a rust filled hole .
Hot dip galvanized is the only type to consider. The iron boatnails of the
past were soft iron (hand wrought iron), it rusted faster than mild steel
but once it had a good surface coating of rust it stopped. Im presuming
these iron nails were used after they had developed a surface of rust, i.e.
oxidised .
I might just make a test stick with several varieties of nails/screws in it
and tow it behind the boat for a time, see which lasts the longest.
a cabin boat (dont ask, it was cheap) some years ago and made the mistake of
using a zinc coated hardware screw to repair a small area. I think it lasted
three months and became a rust filled hole .
Hot dip galvanized is the only type to consider. The iron boatnails of the
past were soft iron (hand wrought iron), it rusted faster than mild steel
but once it had a good surface coating of rust it stopped. Im presuming
these iron nails were used after they had developed a surface of rust, i.e.
oxidised .
I might just make a test stick with several varieties of nails/screws in it
and tow it behind the boat for a time, see which lasts the longest.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Samson" <Bill.Samson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:45 AM
Subject: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'
> Most zinc coated screws you get in DIY stores have an incredibly thin
layer of zinc on them - probably sprayed on or deposited electrolytically
<sp?>. This'll last no time at all in a marine environment, although it'll
do well enough for home and garden use. (Been there - had to drill the
bl**dy things out after a year or so, when they'd rusted solid and were
weeping rust stains all over the place!)
>
> Proper galvanising is a 'hot dip' process, where the objects are dipped
into molten zinc and pick up a really thick coating that'll last for many
years. Amazingly enough, if the coating is scratched through to the iron
underneath, the zinc migrates to 'heal' the scratch! Roofing nails are
usually hot-dip galvanised. Zinc-plated screws are not.
>
> All the underwater fittings on my Chebacco are hot-dip galvanised and 6
years later are showing no signs of corrosion.
>
> Of course, if you want to go the REALLY cheap way, you can try Chinese
'galvanising' - the nails are dipped in hot pitch to get a good waterproof
coating before being used.
>
> The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of iron
it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to corrosion.
>
> Bill
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Most zinc coated screws you get in DIY stores have an incredibly thin layer of zinc on them - probably sprayed on or deposited electrolytically <sp?>. This'll last no time at all in a marine environment, although it'll do well enough for home and garden use. (Been there - had to drill the bl**dy things out after a year or so, when they'd rusted solid and were weeping rust stains all over the place!)
Proper galvanising is a 'hot dip' process, where the objects are dipped into molten zinc and pick up a really thick coating that'll last for many years. Amazingly enough, if the coating is scratched through to the iron underneath, the zinc migrates to 'heal' the scratch! Roofing nails are usually hot-dip galvanised. Zinc-plated screws are not.
All the underwater fittings on my Chebacco are hot-dip galvanised and 6 years later are showing no signs of corrosion.
Of course, if you want to go the REALLY cheap way, you can try Chinese 'galvanising' - the nails are dipped in hot pitch to get a good waterproof coating before being used.
The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to corrosion.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Proper galvanising is a 'hot dip' process, where the objects are dipped into molten zinc and pick up a really thick coating that'll last for many years. Amazingly enough, if the coating is scratched through to the iron underneath, the zinc migrates to 'heal' the scratch! Roofing nails are usually hot-dip galvanised. Zinc-plated screws are not.
All the underwater fittings on my Chebacco are hot-dip galvanised and 6 years later are showing no signs of corrosion.
Of course, if you want to go the REALLY cheap way, you can try Chinese 'galvanising' - the nails are dipped in hot pitch to get a good waterproof coating before being used.
The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to corrosion.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]