RE: [bolger] Re:Lexan vs. Acrylic also MDO
- my inserted polycarbonate comments -
Bill Kreamer, President
Sol-Air Company
129 Miller St.
Belfast, Maine, U.S.A. 04915
Tel 207-338-9513
Fax 208-978-7839
Email kreamer@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Vince and Mary Ann Chew [mailto:vachew@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:08 AM
To: Bolger Group
Subject: [bolger] Re:Lexan vs. Acrylic also MDO
My friend and former next door neighbor is a supervisor at Lexalite
Corporation.
(snip)
Lexan (polycarbonate) is very tough and crack resistant.
It is easy to work with using everyday tools, but it will discolor with
prolonged exposure to sunlight and eventually will no longer be
transparent. It also scratches rather easily.
- apparently, non-UV-resistant polycarbonate grades will eventually
yellow; you can get (pay extra for) anti-UV anti-scratch-coated
polycarbonate types. It may be worth it, to get the strength advantage
it has over acrylic.
The following is from McMaster-Carr:
POLYCARBONATE-
Recognized by trade names such as Lexan,
Hyzod, and Tuffak
Maximum temperature: 180° F
Maximum intermittent temperature: 250° F
Sheets to 1/2" thick have glasslike transparency
Electrically nonconductive
Sheets are thermoformable, cold formable,
and UL rated as burglar resistant
For corrugated polycarbonate sheets,
see page 2921
High impact resistance: 250 times stronger than safety glass
30 times stronger than acrylic
Excellent dimensional stability
High tensile strength
ABRASION-RESISTANT POLYCARBONATE-
Superior UV resistance
Resists yellowing and weathering
Similar properties to standard polycarbonate, except:
Not thermo formable, cold formable, or UL rated as burglar resistant
Excellent abrasion resistance
Also known as mar-resistant
UV and non-UV polycarbonate is available from
Emco Plastics, POB 10055, 24 Just Rd, Fairfield NJ, 07004, 973-808-0202,
800-292-9906
also from
Sheffield Plastics, 119 Salisbury Road, Sheffield, MA 01257,
413-229-8711, 800-628-5084
-
He highly recommends acrylic over Lexan for boat windows.
- OK, but does he say why? -
(snip)
There are security grades which are used in bulletproof enclosures.
- this sounds like polycarbonate, not acrylic -
Acrylic is not as easy to cut or drill without
cracking it. There are saw blades and drill bits available made
especially for use with acrylic.
(remainder snipped)
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Bolger rules!!!
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- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill Kreamer, President
Sol-Air Company
129 Miller St.
Belfast, Maine, U.S.A. 04915
Tel 207-338-9513
Fax 208-978-7839
Email kreamer@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Vince and Mary Ann Chew [mailto:vachew@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:08 AM
To: Bolger Group
Subject: [bolger] Re:Lexan vs. Acrylic also MDO
My friend and former next door neighbor is a supervisor at Lexalite
Corporation.
(snip)
Lexan (polycarbonate) is very tough and crack resistant.
It is easy to work with using everyday tools, but it will discolor with
prolonged exposure to sunlight and eventually will no longer be
transparent. It also scratches rather easily.
- apparently, non-UV-resistant polycarbonate grades will eventually
yellow; you can get (pay extra for) anti-UV anti-scratch-coated
polycarbonate types. It may be worth it, to get the strength advantage
it has over acrylic.
The following is from McMaster-Carr:
POLYCARBONATE-
Recognized by trade names such as Lexan,
Hyzod, and Tuffak
Maximum temperature: 180° F
Maximum intermittent temperature: 250° F
Sheets to 1/2" thick have glasslike transparency
Electrically nonconductive
Sheets are thermoformable, cold formable,
and UL rated as burglar resistant
For corrugated polycarbonate sheets,
see page 2921
High impact resistance: 250 times stronger than safety glass
30 times stronger than acrylic
Excellent dimensional stability
High tensile strength
ABRASION-RESISTANT POLYCARBONATE-
Superior UV resistance
Resists yellowing and weathering
Similar properties to standard polycarbonate, except:
Not thermo formable, cold formable, or UL rated as burglar resistant
Excellent abrasion resistance
Also known as mar-resistant
UV and non-UV polycarbonate is available from
Emco Plastics, POB 10055, 24 Just Rd, Fairfield NJ, 07004, 973-808-0202,
800-292-9906
also from
Sheffield Plastics, 119 Salisbury Road, Sheffield, MA 01257,
413-229-8711, 800-628-5084
-
He highly recommends acrylic over Lexan for boat windows.
- OK, but does he say why? -
(snip)
There are security grades which are used in bulletproof enclosures.
- this sounds like polycarbonate, not acrylic -
Acrylic is not as easy to cut or drill without
cracking it. There are saw blades and drill bits available made
especially for use with acrylic.
(remainder snipped)
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=915128/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http://shoppi
ng.yahoo.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks to all for the input--much appreciated. Sam
--- pseudospark <shansen@...> wrote:
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--- pseudospark <shansen@...> wrote:
> For completeness, standard acrylic is described in__________________________________________________
> the US Plastic
> catalog as:
>
> "Acrylite (R) Acrylic plast sheet is completely
> transparent,
> flexible,
> and exhibits great resistance to breakage. Acrylic
> is excellent
> material to use in place of glass for windows,
> skylights, doors,
> partitions, etc. It is lightweight, half the weight
> of glass, and it
> is virtually unaffected by nature. It can take
> temperatures from -40
> deg F to 180 deg F (intermittant to 200 deg F).
> Fabrication is easy,
> as it can be sawed with fine tooth blades, drilled
> with plastic
> drills, sanded and polished. Also, it can be
> cemented with Acrylic
> cement. It meets FDA standards, is UV stabilized,
> and has a UL 95
> Flammability rating. Supplied with protective film
> mask. The forming
> temp is 350 deg F. Applications include inspection
> windows, sight
> gauges, windshields, meter faces, protective covers,
> safety shields,
> tanks, desk tops, displays, trays, and chair pads."
>
> There is also an abrasion resistant version:
>
> "Use this clear abrasion resistant acrylic sheet
> where greatest mar
> resistance is needed. It incorporates the
> proprietary 3M 906 abrasion
> resistant coating under license from 3M Co. It has
> abrasion resistant
> coating on both sides and masking latex paper on
> both sides. It is UV
> resistant."
>
> Costs per 24x48x1/8 are $14 for the standard acrylic
> and $37 for the
> mar resistant. Tinted is available (gray 24x48x1/4
> is about $49 w/o
> the mar resistant coating).
>
> I guess for less than extreme usage I'd just go with
> standard or
> tinted acrylic and make sure that it's easily
> replacable. And, as
> stated by Vince, be sure to use a drill designed for
> acrylics and
> keep a scratch remover kit handy.
>
> Steve Hansen
>
>
>
>
>
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For completeness, standard acrylic is described in the US Plastic
catalog as:
"Acrylite (R) Acrylic plast sheet is completely transparent,
flexible,
and exhibits great resistance to breakage. Acrylic is excellent
material to use in place of glass for windows, skylights, doors,
partitions, etc. It is lightweight, half the weight of glass, and it
is virtually unaffected by nature. It can take temperatures from -40
deg F to 180 deg F (intermittant to 200 deg F). Fabrication is easy,
as it can be sawed with fine tooth blades, drilled with plastic
drills, sanded and polished. Also, it can be cemented with Acrylic
cement. It meets FDA standards, is UV stabilized, and has a UL 95
Flammability rating. Supplied with protective film mask. The forming
temp is 350 deg F. Applications include inspection windows, sight
gauges, windshields, meter faces, protective covers, safety shields,
tanks, desk tops, displays, trays, and chair pads."
There is also an abrasion resistant version:
"Use this clear abrasion resistant acrylic sheet where greatest mar
resistance is needed. It incorporates the proprietary 3M 906 abrasion
resistant coating under license from 3M Co. It has abrasion resistant
coating on both sides and masking latex paper on both sides. It is UV
resistant."
Costs per 24x48x1/8 are $14 for the standard acrylic and $37 for the
mar resistant. Tinted is available (gray 24x48x1/4 is about $49 w/o
the mar resistant coating).
I guess for less than extreme usage I'd just go with standard or
tinted acrylic and make sure that it's easily replacable. And, as
stated by Vince, be sure to use a drill designed for acrylics and
keep a scratch remover kit handy.
Steve Hansen
catalog as:
"Acrylite (R) Acrylic plast sheet is completely transparent,
flexible,
and exhibits great resistance to breakage. Acrylic is excellent
material to use in place of glass for windows, skylights, doors,
partitions, etc. It is lightweight, half the weight of glass, and it
is virtually unaffected by nature. It can take temperatures from -40
deg F to 180 deg F (intermittant to 200 deg F). Fabrication is easy,
as it can be sawed with fine tooth blades, drilled with plastic
drills, sanded and polished. Also, it can be cemented with Acrylic
cement. It meets FDA standards, is UV stabilized, and has a UL 95
Flammability rating. Supplied with protective film mask. The forming
temp is 350 deg F. Applications include inspection windows, sight
gauges, windshields, meter faces, protective covers, safety shields,
tanks, desk tops, displays, trays, and chair pads."
There is also an abrasion resistant version:
"Use this clear abrasion resistant acrylic sheet where greatest mar
resistance is needed. It incorporates the proprietary 3M 906 abrasion
resistant coating under license from 3M Co. It has abrasion resistant
coating on both sides and masking latex paper on both sides. It is UV
resistant."
Costs per 24x48x1/8 are $14 for the standard acrylic and $37 for the
mar resistant. Tinted is available (gray 24x48x1/4 is about $49 w/o
the mar resistant coating).
I guess for less than extreme usage I'd just go with standard or
tinted acrylic and make sure that it's easily replacable. And, as
stated by Vince, be sure to use a drill designed for acrylics and
keep a scratch remover kit handy.
Steve Hansen
Lexan (generic name is polycarbonate plastic) is available with a
hard coat surface. One variety is Lexan Margard which is described as
follows in the US Plastic catalog ( www.usplastic.com ):
"Lexan (R) Margard sheet has maximum toughness, with mar resistance
approaching that of glass, and significantly improved resistance to
weathering. MR-5 sheet provides extended service life. It has
excellent clarity and durability, it is lightweight, and is superior
glazing material for institutions, office buildings, stores, and
more. It will withstand -40deg F to 270 deg F. Has a silicon hardcoat
surface. 5 year guarantee against coating failure. It is non-formable
and UV resistant."
They describe standard polycarbonate sheet as follows:
"Polycarbonate is a high impact material with excellent properties
that enable this material to be used where many others have failed.
It is virtually unbreakable, making its products extremely safe in
areas where parts may be exposed to high impact. It is UL listed for
Burglar Resistance and it complies with ANSI (Z97.1) for transparent
safety glazing in buildings. May be used in continuous service
applications with temperatures ranging from -40 deg F to 240 deg F.
Polycarbonate is UV stabilized giving it effective resistance to sun
exposure. It has performed well in outdoor applications for 5-7
years. Applications include greenhouses, patio roofs, window glazing,
safety guards, chair mats, equipment enclosures, signs, doors, and
much more."
Finally, you can get the tinted Lexan (gray in thinner e.g. 1/8"
sheets, bronze in thicker e.g. 3/8) which is described thus:
"When installed in windows, the Lexan sheet contributes to
substantial fuel cost savings by reducing heat loss in cold and hot
weather. Lexan sheet cuts down heat gain reducing air conditioning
energy consumption. Personal comfort is improved by reducing
temperature variations and with Lexan's outstanding resistance to
breakage. This sheeting is truly a superior glazing material. Sheets
are UV resistant and masked, both sides. The color is solar gray and
solar bronze. It will withstand -40 to 270 deg F. Forming temperature
is 375 deg F."
Pricing for a 2 x 4 ft. sheet, 1/8" thick for the above are roughly
$23 for std polycarbonate, $42 for the gray tinted and $81 for the
Margard.
The Margard stuff is somewhat similar to plastic eyeglass lenses
which are made of polycarbonate. The scratch resistance is provided
by a deposited inorganic silicon oxide or (in premium lenses) diamond
film coating.
I use Lexan quite a bit for implosion protection around glass vacuum
chambers. Lexan beats acrylic in terms of shatter resistance. But, it
is softer.
Steve Hansen
hard coat surface. One variety is Lexan Margard which is described as
follows in the US Plastic catalog ( www.usplastic.com ):
"Lexan (R) Margard sheet has maximum toughness, with mar resistance
approaching that of glass, and significantly improved resistance to
weathering. MR-5 sheet provides extended service life. It has
excellent clarity and durability, it is lightweight, and is superior
glazing material for institutions, office buildings, stores, and
more. It will withstand -40deg F to 270 deg F. Has a silicon hardcoat
surface. 5 year guarantee against coating failure. It is non-formable
and UV resistant."
They describe standard polycarbonate sheet as follows:
"Polycarbonate is a high impact material with excellent properties
that enable this material to be used where many others have failed.
It is virtually unbreakable, making its products extremely safe in
areas where parts may be exposed to high impact. It is UL listed for
Burglar Resistance and it complies with ANSI (Z97.1) for transparent
safety glazing in buildings. May be used in continuous service
applications with temperatures ranging from -40 deg F to 240 deg F.
Polycarbonate is UV stabilized giving it effective resistance to sun
exposure. It has performed well in outdoor applications for 5-7
years. Applications include greenhouses, patio roofs, window glazing,
safety guards, chair mats, equipment enclosures, signs, doors, and
much more."
Finally, you can get the tinted Lexan (gray in thinner e.g. 1/8"
sheets, bronze in thicker e.g. 3/8) which is described thus:
"When installed in windows, the Lexan sheet contributes to
substantial fuel cost savings by reducing heat loss in cold and hot
weather. Lexan sheet cuts down heat gain reducing air conditioning
energy consumption. Personal comfort is improved by reducing
temperature variations and with Lexan's outstanding resistance to
breakage. This sheeting is truly a superior glazing material. Sheets
are UV resistant and masked, both sides. The color is solar gray and
solar bronze. It will withstand -40 to 270 deg F. Forming temperature
is 375 deg F."
Pricing for a 2 x 4 ft. sheet, 1/8" thick for the above are roughly
$23 for std polycarbonate, $42 for the gray tinted and $81 for the
Margard.
The Margard stuff is somewhat similar to plastic eyeglass lenses
which are made of polycarbonate. The scratch resistance is provided
by a deposited inorganic silicon oxide or (in premium lenses) diamond
film coating.
I use Lexan quite a bit for implosion protection around glass vacuum
chambers. Lexan beats acrylic in terms of shatter resistance. But, it
is softer.
Steve Hansen
My friend and former next door neighbor is a supervisor at Lexalite
Corporation. They make street lighting which is sold world wide. He
tells me that Lexan (polycarbonate) is very tough and crack resistant.
It is easy to work with using everyday tools, but it will discolor with
prolonged exposure to sunlight and eventually will no longer be
transparent. It also scratches rather easily. He highly recommends
acrylic over Lexan for boat windows. There are many grades and varieties
of acrylic. It can be specified with scratch resistant coatings and UV
blocking coatings. There are security grades which are used in
bulletproof enclosures. Acrylic is not as easy to cut or drill without
cracking it. There are saw blades and drill bits available made
especially for use with acrylic.
$38.00 a sheet for both sides overlaid 1/2" MDO is about as good a price
as I have found. Not all MDO is created equal. Some I got was all fir.
Another batch had thin outer plys of what appears to be luan. The latter
seems to lie flatter with less curl, but the former is probably
stronger. All the MDO I have seen had very few voids. The best I got was
"Simpson" brand from Canada. They (Simpson) advertise a marine grade
MDO, but I haven't seen it. I would assume that it has NO voids and is
more expensive.
I left some scraps of unpainted MDO lying all winter and spring weighted
down in a water filled drainage ditch near my shop. They did not absorb
any significant moisture and did not swell or delaminate. Someone
mentioned that MDO seems to "suck up epoxy". I agree that it seems to
take a bit more resin to get a glossy finish on MDO than on bare
plywood. It may be because the paper overlay has a stippled surface to
improve adhesion of paint.
Vince Chew
Corporation. They make street lighting which is sold world wide. He
tells me that Lexan (polycarbonate) is very tough and crack resistant.
It is easy to work with using everyday tools, but it will discolor with
prolonged exposure to sunlight and eventually will no longer be
transparent. It also scratches rather easily. He highly recommends
acrylic over Lexan for boat windows. There are many grades and varieties
of acrylic. It can be specified with scratch resistant coatings and UV
blocking coatings. There are security grades which are used in
bulletproof enclosures. Acrylic is not as easy to cut or drill without
cracking it. There are saw blades and drill bits available made
especially for use with acrylic.
$38.00 a sheet for both sides overlaid 1/2" MDO is about as good a price
as I have found. Not all MDO is created equal. Some I got was all fir.
Another batch had thin outer plys of what appears to be luan. The latter
seems to lie flatter with less curl, but the former is probably
stronger. All the MDO I have seen had very few voids. The best I got was
"Simpson" brand from Canada. They (Simpson) advertise a marine grade
MDO, but I haven't seen it. I would assume that it has NO voids and is
more expensive.
I left some scraps of unpainted MDO lying all winter and spring weighted
down in a water filled drainage ditch near my shop. They did not absorb
any significant moisture and did not swell or delaminate. Someone
mentioned that MDO seems to "suck up epoxy". I agree that it seems to
take a bit more resin to get a glossy finish on MDO than on bare
plywood. It may be because the paper overlay has a stippled surface to
improve adhesion of paint.
Vince Chew