[bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges

Robert:
Thank you for your attention. Somewhere in the back of my mind while slogging through everything I could gather on the subject, Eric Hiscock's visage appeared from the gloom. He looked down at my books, furrowed his brow, and said two words through his pursed lips: "Friction tape". God only knows what this means....
david
 

Robert N. Lundy wrote:

Interesting research David, thanks for doing it.  A few notes about my
earlier comments (almost a rant against silicone):

All of my personal experiences with silicone have been negative, hence my
post.  I should also say that everyone in my old marina with a 10 year old
fiberlass sailboat and framed/unframed lexan/plexi fixed ports had
essentially the same experience, i.e., silicone is reccommended because it
doesn't stick and is compatible with plastic (unlike polysulphides), and
didn't work worth a flip.  I still think the "experts" recccomending
silicone should be forced to use it as a sealant-I think their opinions
would change.

Because silicone isn't sticky, sooner or later it lets go and you have to
continually renew it.  We all hate this of course.

One friend with an old platic sailboat that included almost flat fixed ports
couldn't even get his to stop leaking with 5200 (polyurethane)!  He
eventally tried Dolphinite (a very old product, unsure of the chemistry)
that worked great!

As to the misery of removing a polyurethane bedded part, it can be done,
with difficulty (I've used a utility knife blade).  My own attitude as it
relates to ports is that if it doesn't leak it never needs to be removed;
if is breaks and needs replacement, I don't have to worry about breaking the
part.

It's unfortunate that polysuphides affect plastic so negatively-its makes a
great sealant and parts are removable.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Galvin [mailto:mikequill@...]
> Sent: January 17, 2000 2:52 AM
> To: bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>
>
> To All:
> Every tube of silicone caulk I have ever examined has the
> admonition that it
> not be used below the waterline on boats. This does not rule out its use
> _above_ the waterline, or in other applications where it is not
> constantly
> submerged or wet.I have used it to bed bronze portlights and deck
> hardware
> as well as Plexiglass (acrylic) hatches and have never had it fail. It is
> also nice for these applications because, unlike with 3M 5200 and other
> polyurethane products,you will not have to resort to dynamite if you ever
> want to remove the hardware. The West Marine Advisor at
> <http://www.westmarine.com/> suggests that silicone sealants are
> appropriate
> for Lexan (polycarbonate) and acrylic, but highly recommends a
> silicone/polyurethane product, Boatlife Life Seal, with which I have no
> experience. Most other marine sealants are not recommended for use with
> these plastics. The 1999 BOAT/US catalog also recommends silicone
> for such
> applications, but doesn't carry Boatlife Life Seal, and doesn't
> mention it.
> In _Boatbuilder Magazine_, John Marples recommends silicone bedding for
> ports and hatches. Devlin suggests polyurethanes in his book, as does
> Parker, but Dan Spurr suggests that polyurethanes should be
> avoided for such
> uses because they are vulnerable to ultraviolet degradation. The Gougeon
> Brothers recommend WEST System epoxy (of course). _Practical Sailor_ (at
> least from 1984 to 1995 and 1998 to the present) has nothing to
> say on the
> subject. So what should we do? Pays our money and takes our choice, I
> guess.... For cleaning and repair of Lexan, see:
> <http://www.sdplastics.com/polycarb.html> . Btw: I skimmed the GE site:
> <http://www.ge.com/plastics/> ,but could locate nothing
> concerning sealant
> compatibility; however, since the site gave me a headache, I may
> have missed
> something <g>,
> david
>
>
> >From: Bjørn Harbo <bharbo@...>
> >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:51:25 +0100
> >
> >That's interesting. I will have to seal my windows (Plexiglass,
> not Lexan)
> >on the WJD-Schooner soon and was thinking of silicone. What's the
> >alternative?
> >
> >Bjorn
> >
> >---- Original Message -----
> >   From: Robert N. Lundy
> >   To: bolger@egroups.com
> >   Sent: 15. januar 2000 00:15
> >   Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >
> >
> >   Better yet lets ban silicone from the sealant world;  I know that's
> >   politically incorrect in the sealant/adhesive world to make a non
> >inclusive
> >   statement like that, but its still a free country, isn't it
> (Note: since
> >   this post is possibly going to be read in Europe I'll put
> that stupid CE
> >   mark here :))
> >
> >   Pardon my general hatred of this stuff, but Someone used silicone to
> >seal
> >   the two screw in ports in the floor of my 21' Hydrasports
> center console
> >and
> >   over 15 years the plywood core turned into something the
> consistence of
> >   jelly.  Grande work to get it all back shipshape.
> >
> >   Robert & Amy Lundy
> >   St. Petersburg, fla.
> >   robert@...
> >   amy@...
> >
> >
> >   > -----Original Message-----
> >   > From: C. O'Donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
> >   > Sent: January 14, 2000 6:07 PM
> >   > To: bolger@...
> >   > Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > "george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:
> >   >
> >   > > I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing
> the Lexan
> >   > > windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> >   > > material on the surface of the Lexan.  I need suggestions
> as to how
> >to
> >   > > clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to
> seal Lexan.
> >   > Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.
>
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Robert N. Lundy wrote:
> Because silicone isn't sticky, sooner or later it lets go and you have to
> continually renew it. We all hate this of course.

Silicone isn't sticky, it's not supposed to be. It does need to be
renewed. People should know to renew their silicone once a decade or so.

> As to the misery of removing a polyurethane bedded part, it can be
> done, with difficulty (I've used a utility knife blade). My own
> attitude as it relates to ports is that if it doesn't leak it never
> needs to be removed; if is breaks and needs replacement, I don't have
> to worry about breaking the part.

Apply heat. Add sharp blade. Use quickly. (A heated sharp blade works
well, too.)

Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Interesting research David, thanks for doing it. A few notes about my
earlier comments (almost a rant against silicone):

All of my personal experiences with silicone have been negative, hence my
post. I should also say that everyone in my old marina with a 10 year old
fiberlass sailboat and framed/unframed lexan/plexi fixed ports had
essentially the same experience, i.e., silicone is reccommended because it
doesn't stick and is compatible with plastic (unlike polysulphides), and
didn't work worth a flip. I still think the "experts" recccomending
silicone should be forced to use it as a sealant-I think their opinions
would change.

Because silicone isn't sticky, sooner or later it lets go and you have to
continually renew it. We all hate this of course.

One friend with an old platic sailboat that included almost flat fixed ports
couldn't even get his to stop leaking with 5200 (polyurethane)! He
eventally tried Dolphinite (a very old product, unsure of the chemistry)
that worked great!

As to the misery of removing a polyurethane bedded part, it can be done,
with difficulty (I've used a utility knife blade). My own attitude as it
relates to ports is that if it doesn't leak it never needs to be removed;
if is breaks and needs replacement, I don't have to worry about breaking the
part.

It's unfortunate that polysuphides affect plastic so negatively-its makes a
great sealant and parts are removable.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Galvin [mailto:mikequill@...]
> Sent: January 17, 2000 2:52 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>
>
> To All:
> Every tube of silicone caulk I have ever examined has the
> admonition that it
> not be used below the waterline on boats. This does not rule out its use
> _above_ the waterline, or in other applications where it is not
> constantly
> submerged or wet.I have used it to bed bronze portlights and deck
> hardware
> as well as Plexiglass (acrylic) hatches and have never had it fail. It is
> also nice for these applications because, unlike with 3M 5200 and other
> polyurethane products,you will not have to resort to dynamite if you ever
> want to remove the hardware. The West Marine Advisor at
> <http://www.westmarine.com/> suggests that silicone sealants are
> appropriate
> for Lexan (polycarbonate) and acrylic, but highly recommends a
> silicone/polyurethane product, Boatlife Life Seal, with which I have no
> experience. Most other marine sealants are not recommended for use with
> these plastics. The 1999 BOAT/US catalog also recommends silicone
> for such
> applications, but doesn't carry Boatlife Life Seal, and doesn't
> mention it.
> In _Boatbuilder Magazine_, John Marples recommends silicone bedding for
> ports and hatches. Devlin suggests polyurethanes in his book, as does
> Parker, but Dan Spurr suggests that polyurethanes should be
> avoided for such
> uses because they are vulnerable to ultraviolet degradation. The Gougeon
> Brothers recommend WEST System epoxy (of course). _Practical Sailor_ (at
> least from 1984 to 1995 and 1998 to the present) has nothing to
> say on the
> subject. So what should we do? Pays our money and takes our choice, I
> guess.... For cleaning and repair of Lexan, see:
> <http://www.sdplastics.com/polycarb.html> . Btw: I skimmed the GE site:
> <http://www.ge.com/plastics/> ,but could locate nothing
> concerning sealant
> compatibility; however, since the site gave me a headache, I may
> have missed
> something <g>,
> david
>
>
> >From: Bjørn Harbo <bharbo@...>
> >Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:51:25 +0100
> >
> >That's interesting. I will have to seal my windows (Plexiglass,
> not Lexan)
> >on the WJD-Schooner soon and was thinking of silicone. What's the
> >alternative?
> >
> >Bjorn
> >
> >---- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert N. Lundy
> > To:bolger@egroups.com
> > Sent: 15. januar 2000 00:15
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >
> >
> > Better yet lets ban silicone from the sealant world; I know that's
> > politically incorrect in the sealant/adhesive world to make a non
> >inclusive
> > statement like that, but its still a free country, isn't it
> (Note: since
> > this post is possibly going to be read in Europe I'll put
> that stupid CE
> > mark here :))
> >
> > Pardon my general hatred of this stuff, but Someone used silicone to
> >seal
> > the two screw in ports in the floor of my 21' Hydrasports
> center console
> >and
> > over 15 years the plywood core turned into something the
> consistence of
> > jelly. Grande work to get it all back shipshape.
> >
> > Robert & Amy Lundy
> > St. Petersburg, fla.
> >robert@...
> >amy@...
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C. O'Donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
> > > Sent: January 14, 2000 6:07 PM
> > > To:bolger@...
> > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> > >
> > >
> > > "george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing
> the Lexan
> > > > windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> > > > material on the surface of the Lexan. I need suggestions
> as to how
> >to
> > > > clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to
> seal Lexan.
> > > Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.
>
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access
> them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for
> a chance to win a digital camera.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/337/5/_/3457/_/948123008/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
To All:
Every tube of silicone caulk I have ever examined has the admonition that it
not be used below the waterline on boats. This does not rule out its use
_above_ the waterline, or in other applications where it is not constantly
submerged or wet.I have used it to bed bronze portlights and deck hardware
as well as Plexiglass (acrylic) hatches and have never had it fail. It is
also nice for these applications because, unlike with 3M 5200 and other
polyurethane products,you will not have to resort to dynamite if you ever
want to remove the hardware. The West Marine Advisor at
<http://www.westmarine.com/> suggests that silicone sealants are appropriate
for Lexan (polycarbonate) and acrylic, but highly recommends a
silicone/polyurethane product, Boatlife Life Seal, with which I have no
experience. Most other marine sealants are not recommended for use with
these plastics. The 1999 BOAT/US catalog also recommends silicone for such
applications, but doesn't carry Boatlife Life Seal, and doesn't mention it.
In _Boatbuilder Magazine_, John Marples recommends silicone bedding for
ports and hatches. Devlin suggests polyurethanes in his book, as does
Parker, but Dan Spurr suggests that polyurethanes should be avoided for such
uses because they are vulnerable to ultraviolet degradation. The Gougeon
Brothers recommend WEST System epoxy (of course). _Practical Sailor_ (at
least from 1984 to 1995 and 1998 to the present) has nothing to say on the
subject. So what should we do? Pays our money and takes our choice, I
guess.... For cleaning and repair of Lexan, see:
<http://www.sdplastics.com/polycarb.html> . Btw: I skimmed the GE site:
<http://www.ge.com/plastics/> ,but could locate nothing concerning sealant
compatibility; however, since the site gave me a headache, I may have missed
something <g>,
david


>From: Bj�rn Harbo <bharbo@...>
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:51:25 +0100
>
>That's interesting. I will have to seal my windows (Plexiglass, not Lexan)
>on the WJD-Schooner soon and was thinking of silicone. What's the
>alternative?
>
>Bjorn
>
>---- Original Message -----
> From: Robert N. Lundy
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Sent: 15. januar 2000 00:15
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>
>
> Better yet lets ban silicone from the sealant world; I know that's
> politically incorrect in the sealant/adhesive world to make a non
>inclusive
> statement like that, but its still a free country, isn't it (Note: since
> this post is possibly going to be read in Europe I'll put that stupid CE
> mark here :))
>
> Pardon my general hatred of this stuff, but Someone used silicone to
>seal
> the two screw in ports in the floor of my 21' Hydrasports center console
>and
> over 15 years the plywood core turned into something the consistence of
> jelly. Grande work to get it all back shipshape.
>
> Robert & Amy Lundy
> St. Petersburg, fla.
>robert@...
>amy@...
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C. O'Donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
> > Sent: January 14, 2000 6:07 PM
> > To:bolger@...
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
> >
> >
> > "george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing the Lexan
> > > windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> > > material on the surface of the Lexan. I need suggestions as to how
>to
> > > clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.
> >
> >
> > I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to seal Lexan.
> > Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.

>

______________________________________________________
I used 3m 5200 to seal lexan and plexiglas on my long micro and an Egret
replica. Windows bolted with stainless bolts every 1 1/2 inch on margin. Use
mineral spirits to clean up immediately.
That's interesting. I will have to seal my windows (Plexiglass, not
Lexan) on the WJD-Schooner soon and was thinking of silicone. What's the
alternative?
<<>>

Polyurethane (PL, 3M? others) or polysulfide (3M, Sika) or latex. Not
that I'd say to use latex but I bet someone has... I am happy with PL
"Marine Sealant" - about $4 a tube, their house sealant is about 15
cents cheaper.
That's interesting. Iwill have to seal my windows (Plexiglass, not Lexan)on the WJD-Schooner soon and was thinking of silicone. What's the alternative?
 
Bjorn
 
---- Original Message -----
Sent:15. januar 2000 00:15
Subject:[bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges

Better yet lets ban silicone from the sealant world;  I know that's
politically incorrect in the sealant/adhesive world to make a non inclusive
statement like that, but its still a free country, isn't it (Note: since
this post is possibly going to be read in Europe I'll put that stupid CE
mark here :))

Pardon my general hatred of this stuff, but Someone used silicone to seal
the two screw in ports in the floor of my 21' Hydrasports center console and
over 15 years the plywood core turned into something the consistence of
jelly.  Grande work to get it all back shipshape.

Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. O'Donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
> Sent: January 14, 2000 6:07 PM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>
>
> "george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:
>
> > I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing the Lexan
> > windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> > material on the surface of the Lexan.  I need suggestions as to how to
> > clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.
>
>
> I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to seal Lexan.
> Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You
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Better yet lets ban silicone from the sealant world; I know that's
politically incorrect in the sealant/adhesive world to make a non inclusive
statement like that, but its still a free country, isn't it (Note: since
this post is possibly going to be read in Europe I'll put that stupid CE
mark here :))

Pardon my general hatred of this stuff, but Someone used silicone to seal
the two screw in ports in the floor of my 21' Hydrasports center console and
over 15 years the plywood core turned into something the consistence of
jelly. Grande work to get it all back shipshape.

Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. O'Donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
> Sent: January 14, 2000 6:07 PM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Lexan with Silicone smudges
>
>
> "george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:
>
> > I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing the Lexan
> > windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> > material on the surface of the Lexan. I need suggestions as to how to
> > clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.
>
>
> I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to seal Lexan.
> Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You
> can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign up
> today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/332/5/_/3457/_/947891291/
>
> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
> --http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=bolger&m=1
>
>
"george shannon" <gjs30-@...> wrote:

> I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing the Lexan
> windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
> material on the surface of the Lexan. I need suggestions as to how to
> clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.


I believe GE specifically recommends NOT using silicone to seal Lexan.
Check the GE web page, that's where I saw the info.
davthzl-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1684
> i,ve used single edged razor blade on real glass i,d be careful on
plastic
> have you tried just rubbing it with your fingers back and forth?
D.W.Johnson

Yes I did. It just moved it around. Someone else suggested using
rubbing alcohol, I tried it and it worked great. Thanks
i,ve used single edged razor blade on real glass i,d be careful on plastic
have you tried just rubbing it with your fingers back and forth? D.W.Johnson
I am competing Bolgers Micro Trawler and while installing the Lexan
windows, I didn't get all the silicone off and now I have dried
material on the surface of the Lexan. I need suggestions as to how to
clean off the silicone without further scratching the Lexan.