Re: [bolger] Re: 1988 SBJ Black Skimmer article. - wave slap
In the case of the Black Skimmer and other flat bottomed boats of about her size
or smaller, there might be an even easier way to help quiet the wave slap.
I'm a fairly heavy person and maybe I've been doing it all along.
Simply this, trim the boat so that when at anchor, with your weight forward
on the berth along with the weight of any one else normally sleeping forward, the heel
of the stem is touching the water. All the little waves won't slap on the bottom
because it is never clear to be slapped on. The bigger ones, boat wakes etc., will still
slap but in a quiet anchorage the problem should be much diminished.
When sailing your weight will be aft lifting the bottom of the stem out of the water
and the boat should have her proper sailing lines.
One way to do this might be to have someone take some pictures of the boat from
abeam at anchor with you lying in the berth. It might take some fiddling with the
inside ballast arrangements but with it done she will be quieter.
PCB's sailing designs have a lot of rocker in the bottom and are sensitive to fore and
aft trim. The weight of the crew sleeping forward can alter that trim. I think
that maybe this idea allows that alteration to be useful.
Jim Pope
or smaller, there might be an even easier way to help quiet the wave slap.
I'm a fairly heavy person and maybe I've been doing it all along.
Simply this, trim the boat so that when at anchor, with your weight forward
on the berth along with the weight of any one else normally sleeping forward, the heel
of the stem is touching the water. All the little waves won't slap on the bottom
because it is never clear to be slapped on. The bigger ones, boat wakes etc., will still
slap but in a quiet anchorage the problem should be much diminished.
When sailing your weight will be aft lifting the bottom of the stem out of the water
and the boat should have her proper sailing lines.
One way to do this might be to have someone take some pictures of the boat from
abeam at anchor with you lying in the berth. It might take some fiddling with the
inside ballast arrangements but with it done she will be quieter.
PCB's sailing designs have a lot of rocker in the bottom and are sensitive to fore and
aft trim. The weight of the crew sleeping forward can alter that trim. I think
that maybe this idea allows that alteration to be useful.
Jim Pope
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hello
Well, that's all fine and dandy, if you can sleep through it! For us,
it was not a matter of anchoring in rough water. Any tiny wavelets
caused a sound that reverberated throughout the cabin. I found it
incredibly loud and could not sleep through it. I remember one
evening, we anchored off a little key, but the wind changed in the
middle of the night and there were small ripples on the water. The
noise got so bad that we pulled up anchor and moved, in the middle of
the night, to the leeward side of the key. Not something you can do
all the time. If I was to own such a boat I would have to come up
with a solution to this problem, perhaps along the lines already
suggested.
Regards,
Daniel.
Tromso, Norway.
Where the sun comes up on Friday!!
Well, that's all fine and dandy, if you can sleep through it! For us,
it was not a matter of anchoring in rough water. Any tiny wavelets
caused a sound that reverberated throughout the cabin. I found it
incredibly loud and could not sleep through it. I remember one
evening, we anchored off a little key, but the wind changed in the
middle of the night and there were small ripples on the water. The
noise got so bad that we pulled up anchor and moved, in the middle of
the night, to the leeward side of the key. Not something you can do
all the time. If I was to own such a boat I would have to come up
with a solution to this problem, perhaps along the lines already
suggested.
Regards,
Daniel.
Tromso, Norway.
Where the sun comes up on Friday!!
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Folks, may I offer a contrary opinion. For some years I had the
pleasure of owning
> and sailing a Black Skimmer. At anchor, there was indeed, some wave
slap. It
> lulled me to sleep.
> It was there, but it was never objectionable. Every small, and even
not quite so
> small, boat that I've been on allowed the sound of the water ,
underway
> especially, to come through into the boat and it has always given
pleasure.
> As far as v-bottom entry being quieter, maybe so. A piece of
weighted canvas, yup
> that might help some too, but why bother? We work hard to get out
onto the
> water. It's different there. Let's just enjoy it.
>
> Jim Pope
> Listening to the freezing gale blast its way around the house.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Folks, may I offer a contrary opinion. For some years I had the pleasure of owning
and sailing a Black Skimmer. At anchor, there was indeed, some wave slap. It
lulled me to sleep.
It was there, but it was never objectionable. Every small, and even not quite so
small, boat that I've been on allowed the sound of the water , underway
especially, to come through into the boat and it has always given pleasure.
As far as v-bottom entry being quieter, maybe so. A piece of weighted canvas, yup
that might help some too, but why bother? We work hard to get out onto the
water. It's different there. Let's just enjoy it.
Jim Pope
Listening to the freezing gale blast its way around the house.
and sailing a Black Skimmer. At anchor, there was indeed, some wave slap. It
lulled me to sleep.
It was there, but it was never objectionable. Every small, and even not quite so
small, boat that I've been on allowed the sound of the water , underway
especially, to come through into the boat and it has always given pleasure.
As far as v-bottom entry being quieter, maybe so. A piece of weighted canvas, yup
that might help some too, but why bother? We work hard to get out onto the
water. It's different there. Let's just enjoy it.
Jim Pope
Listening to the freezing gale blast its way around the house.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Thanks for posting the article. I first read it way back before I realized
that the "world of Bolger" existed. Once I'd gotten interested in his
designs I'd lost the article. It was interesting to read it again. Pity
they're out of business. Guess we'll have to build our own boat for the
trip ;)
Regards,
Larry Barker Talent, Oregon
that the "world of Bolger" existed. Once I'd gotten interested in his
designs I'd lost the article. It was interesting to read it again. Pity
they're out of business. Guess we'll have to build our own boat for the
trip ;)
Regards,
Larry Barker Talent, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "brucehallman" <brucehallman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: [bolger] 1988 SBJ Black Skimmer article.
> Reading the earlier posts about the charter rental of a Bolger Black
> Skimmer in Florida reminded me of the 1988 Small Boat Journal
> article "Cruise of the Black Skimmer" about this very boat. I posted
> the article at:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
>
There was a picture of Canadian troop training in
Edmonton (might as well be the top of Mount Mckinley
the temps are normaly about the same) in the local
paper today. Bare hands, and no woolies in evidence.
I was working outdoors here in Toronto today
rebuilding some bookcases that might not have neede it
had I paid more attention. If the sap rises anytime
soon, perhaps I will cut some wood.
--- ellengaestboatbuildingcom
<ellengaest@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
Edmonton (might as well be the top of Mount Mckinley
the temps are normaly about the same) in the local
paper today. Bare hands, and no woolies in evidence.
I was working outdoors here in Toronto today
rebuilding some bookcases that might not have neede it
had I paid more attention. If the sap rises anytime
soon, perhaps I will cut some wood.
--- ellengaestboatbuildingcom
<ellengaest@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
Thant's interesting Peter. I don't have enough
experience with old construction to know the
difference. I do know that some of these boats use
ply as light as 1/4" on boats up to 40' without
problem, but that might account for the noise
generation. Perhaps materials like Duracore would be
more acceptable to the sensibilities of you ears.
TD
--- ellengaestboatbuildingcom
<ellengaest@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
experience with old construction to know the
difference. I do know that some of these boats use
ply as light as 1/4" on boats up to 40' without
problem, but that might account for the noise
generation. Perhaps materials like Duracore would be
more acceptable to the sensibilities of you ears.
TD
--- ellengaestboatbuildingcom
<ellengaest@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
don't remember wave slap ever being a problem in our Skillygalee
unless I was powering into a headsea (to be avoided). The places we
anchor have never suffered from the wakes of passing boats, there
just aren't any boats passing. The shallow draft also allows us to
anchor in very shallow water, up rivers and creeks etc. There really
are very few boats around though compared to what some of you must
experience. We have sailed all day many times and only seen one or
two boats in the far distance or sometimes none. This is a terrible
place though it rains all the time and is cold, the people are
grumpy and bears are hiding in the brush ready to pounce when you go
ashore so you probably shouldn't visit or think of moving here.
By the way my Skillygalee is for sale.
fritz koschmann
> >I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over thecanvas
> >bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of
> wave slap. Has anyone tried this?
>
> You had to do it, didn't you?
>
> I've had the idea for a long time that if I were to have a Bolger
> Sharpie (Skillygallee is the one I like best) I would make a
> false bow to deploy while at anchor. It would be cut to lie alongthe
> topsides, and below the topsides to have two triangular panelsthat
> would hang like two sides of a triangular pyramid, point down. Atthe
> point would be a 5lb mushroom to keep tension in the fabric. Ithink
> it would stop the slap in all waves that were so small that theyto
> didn't make the boat pitch, and maybe a little larger.
>
> But I kept this to myself because I knew someone would not be able
> resist calling it a bra, which, when you think about it, is not atIt must be very different up here in northern Southeast Alaska. I
> all apt. But there, you went and did it.
>
> Peter
don't remember wave slap ever being a problem in our Skillygalee
unless I was powering into a headsea (to be avoided). The places we
anchor have never suffered from the wakes of passing boats, there
just aren't any boats passing. The shallow draft also allows us to
anchor in very shallow water, up rivers and creeks etc. There really
are very few boats around though compared to what some of you must
experience. We have sailed all day many times and only seen one or
two boats in the far distance or sometimes none. This is a terrible
place though it rains all the time and is cold, the people are
grumpy and bears are hiding in the brush ready to pounce when you go
ashore so you probably shouldn't visit or think of moving here.
By the way my Skillygalee is for sale.
fritz koschmann
When I was had a couple of sheets of ply screwed down to take the shape of
my deck on Cynthia J, I tied a tight rope around the forward sheet to help
the process. I found that when I plucked the rope it worked like, if you can
imagine, a quadruple bass.
Stuart Crawford
bass player
New Zealand
on 13/1/02 4:48 AM, dnjost atdjost@...wrote:
my deck on Cynthia J, I tied a tight rope around the forward sheet to help
the process. I found that when I plucked the rope it worked like, if you can
imagine, a quadruple bass.
Stuart Crawford
bass player
New Zealand
on 13/1/02 4:48 AM, dnjost atdjost@...wrote:
> Hmmm... just thinking. While we are talking about the "drum"
> effect. It is no coincidence that fine instruments are made out of
> wood. If one were to take a string bass and stretch it out to 16'
> with proper ballast it would probably serve as a kind of Bolger Box
> type boat. If I were to place a strings from the cabin hatchway
> across the cockpit and to the transom, Micro would make an unusual
> musical instrument.
on 13/1/02 12:36 AM, ellengaestboatbuildingcom at
ellengaest@...wrote:
have large panels which flex (big drum). The way to stop noise from being
transferred through an object is to have it so dense, that it won't move
(like a thick solid concrete wall) so a heavier built boat which doesn't
have large panels able to move in unison should be quieter. The way
acoustics work inside the boat is a bit more of a complex issue, as
different frequencies are absorbed by different materials. For instance wool
is excellent for absorbing high frequencies but no good for absorbing low
frequencies. Whereas a low hollow, flexible wall running down the center of
a boat would be good for absorbing low frequencies, it wouldn't do anything
for high frequencies.
Essentially the best way of building a boat that would stop noise coming in
from outside would be to build it out of thick ferro-cement and make it
completely airtight. As this would be totally impractical, I would suggest
that anyone who see noise inside a boat as a major problem look at a heavy
boat that doesn't have any large flat surfaces, which would act like a drum.
Stuart Crawford
music teacher
former sound recording engineer
New Zealand
ellengaest@...wrote:
> Thomas,The reason that noise is transferred inside plywood hulls, is because they
> Maybe I'm losing my mind on this one but,the one thing I've
> noticed with"modern" construction methods using epoxy inside and out
> to create monocoque structures is this;although they are
> fantastically strong and water-tight they also tend to be noisier then
> boats constructed in the traditional manner.Sound freely resonates
> throughout the interior,like a well tuned drum.
> On the other,a boat comprised of a number of species of wood
> like oak for backbone and ribs;and cedar for planking all held
> together with screws/nails,with caulking driven between appropriate
> seams and the works sealed with oils or paint are like big sound
> sponges loaded with sound damping opportunities.
> I'm not sure just how big you have to go in"modern"construction
> before sounds generated at one end of a boat are not telegraphed to
> the other end but interior furniture combined with styrofoam
> insulation will help absorb and deflect alot of the sound.
> Mind you,as Mike Stockstill noted,one mans racket may be
> another mans music.
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan.
have large panels which flex (big drum). The way to stop noise from being
transferred through an object is to have it so dense, that it won't move
(like a thick solid concrete wall) so a heavier built boat which doesn't
have large panels able to move in unison should be quieter. The way
acoustics work inside the boat is a bit more of a complex issue, as
different frequencies are absorbed by different materials. For instance wool
is excellent for absorbing high frequencies but no good for absorbing low
frequencies. Whereas a low hollow, flexible wall running down the center of
a boat would be good for absorbing low frequencies, it wouldn't do anything
for high frequencies.
Essentially the best way of building a boat that would stop noise coming in
from outside would be to build it out of thick ferro-cement and make it
completely airtight. As this would be totally impractical, I would suggest
that anyone who see noise inside a boat as a major problem look at a heavy
boat that doesn't have any large flat surfaces, which would act like a drum.
Stuart Crawford
music teacher
former sound recording engineer
New Zealand
Being a Bolger sharpie sailor (Dovekie) I've spent my share of nights
listening to waves slapping under my bow as well as swinging all over
creation on my anchor line!
I actually don't mind the wave slaps as much as the swinging at
anchor. I tend to tuck myself into places where the waves aren't an
issue but sometimes you just can't avoid it. Watching the scenery
constantly change through the oarport/windows can be a bit bothersome
though.
A former Dovekie sailor and now owner of a Jim Michalak "NormsBoat"
was griping about the wave slap problem on a cruise together this
summer and described a similar device to reduce cabin noise. Being a
master tinkerer I'm sure Norm will have invented something over the
winter and will premiere it at our spring cruise in early May.
Jake
listening to waves slapping under my bow as well as swinging all over
creation on my anchor line!
I actually don't mind the wave slaps as much as the swinging at
anchor. I tend to tuck myself into places where the waves aren't an
issue but sometimes you just can't avoid it. Watching the scenery
constantly change through the oarport/windows can be a bit bothersome
though.
A former Dovekie sailor and now owner of a Jim Michalak "NormsBoat"
was griping about the wave slap problem on a cruise together this
summer and described a similar device to reduce cabin noise. Being a
master tinkerer I'm sure Norm will have invented something over the
winter and will premiere it at our spring cruise in early May.
Jake
--- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> wave slap, halyard slap... I guess it depends on your timbre and
> pitch preferance. I find that the slap of internal wire halyards
in
> an aluminum mast is the most obnoxious noise in the world (short of
> getting three oboe players to play in tune with one another).
> I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over the
> bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of
wave
> slap. Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> david jost
>I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over thewave slap. Has anyone tried this?
>bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of
You had to do it, didn't you?
I've had the idea for a long time that if I were to have a Bolger
Sharpie (Skillygallee is the one I like best) I would make a canvas
false bow to deploy while at anchor. It would be cut to lie along the
topsides, and below the topsides to have two triangular panels that
would hang like two sides of a triangular pyramid, point down. At the
point would be a 5lb mushroom to keep tension in the fabric. I think
it would stop the slap in all waves that were so small that they
didn't make the boat pitch, and maybe a little larger.
But I kept this to myself because I knew someone would not be able to
resist calling it a bra, which, when you think about it, is not at
all apt. But there, you went and did it.
Peter
Hmmm... just thinking. While we are talking about the "drum"
effect. It is no coincidence that fine instruments are made out of
wood. If one were to take a string bass and stretch it out to 16'
with proper ballast it would probably serve as a kind of Bolger Box
type boat. If I were to place a strings from the cabin hatchway
across the cockpit and to the transom, Micro would make an unusual
musical instrument. Since the cabin is quite large for its size, I
suspect that without gear, it would resonate quite well (what
frequency? will it attract whales?) I suspect that if I take a cue
from musical physics, I could dampen the effect by installing
acoustic foam panels and baffles in critical locations to help cancel
out the reverberations. Perhaps the inside of a sharpie should look
like a modern recording studio with foam baffles, and a lack of flat
surfaces that result in sharp acoustic reflections.
Ok, enough of this...back to the shop to revive the motor and get
real for a bit.
david jost
effect. It is no coincidence that fine instruments are made out of
wood. If one were to take a string bass and stretch it out to 16'
with proper ballast it would probably serve as a kind of Bolger Box
type boat. If I were to place a strings from the cabin hatchway
across the cockpit and to the transom, Micro would make an unusual
musical instrument. Since the cabin is quite large for its size, I
suspect that without gear, it would resonate quite well (what
frequency? will it attract whales?) I suspect that if I take a cue
from musical physics, I could dampen the effect by installing
acoustic foam panels and baffles in critical locations to help cancel
out the reverberations. Perhaps the inside of a sharpie should look
like a modern recording studio with foam baffles, and a lack of flat
surfaces that result in sharp acoustic reflections.
Ok, enough of this...back to the shop to revive the motor and get
real for a bit.
david jost
wave slap, halyard slap... I guess it depends on your timbre and
pitch preferance. I find that the slap of internal wire halyards in
an aluminum mast is the most obnoxious noise in the world (short of
getting three oboe players to play in tune with one another).
I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over the
bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of wave
slap. Has anyone tried this?
david jost
pitch preferance. I find that the slap of internal wire halyards in
an aluminum mast is the most obnoxious noise in the world (short of
getting three oboe players to play in tune with one another).
I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over the
bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of wave
slap. Has anyone tried this?
david jost
Hi Jim,
It's not as bad as that! We've been experiencing temperatures of
+2,+3 Celsius with a few overnight lows of perhaps -6,but generally
fluttering around the zero mark.Basically bomber-jacket weather or
a windbreaker with a sweater underneath.No hat or mits required!The
organizers of various winter time activities in Montréal and Québec
City are concerned due to the scant covering of snow and mild temps
which will certainly put a damper on sledding and the large ice hotel
built in Québec City.
Things start becoming uncomfortable bellow -15 Celsius,especially
if one considers the wind chill factor! Several years ago we had the
pleasure of going through an uninterupted six week periode where the
daytime high was -26 and the lows daily bottomed out near -38Celsius.I
won't tell you what the chill factors were but it was some cold!!
But all of this is easy for me to say,I was born here.Coming from
the warm and sunny South,your body is acclimatized to warmer
temperatures and would experience difficulties regulating its internal
thermostat.So.......bring layers of warm clothing and pile it on or
off as you see fit.
You might also ask the good folks at the pulp and paper plant to
provide you with a quantity of vasodilator.I recommend a well aged,and
very round full bodied red Porto but Crown Royal or,in a
pinch,Canadian Club,neat,will also serve.
Have a safe trip Jim and try to get them to send you to Montréal
in the summer next time will ya!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.
It's not as bad as that! We've been experiencing temperatures of
+2,+3 Celsius with a few overnight lows of perhaps -6,but generally
fluttering around the zero mark.Basically bomber-jacket weather or
a windbreaker with a sweater underneath.No hat or mits required!The
organizers of various winter time activities in Montréal and Québec
City are concerned due to the scant covering of snow and mild temps
which will certainly put a damper on sledding and the large ice hotel
built in Québec City.
Things start becoming uncomfortable bellow -15 Celsius,especially
if one considers the wind chill factor! Several years ago we had the
pleasure of going through an uninterupted six week periode where the
daytime high was -26 and the lows daily bottomed out near -38Celsius.I
won't tell you what the chill factors were but it was some cold!!
But all of this is easy for me to say,I was born here.Coming from
the warm and sunny South,your body is acclimatized to warmer
temperatures and would experience difficulties regulating its internal
thermostat.So.......bring layers of warm clothing and pile it on or
off as you see fit.
You might also ask the good folks at the pulp and paper plant to
provide you with a quantity of vasodilator.I recommend a well aged,and
very round full bodied red Porto but Crown Royal or,in a
pinch,Canadian Club,neat,will also serve.
Have a safe trip Jim and try to get them to send you to Montréal
in the summer next time will ya!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.
--- In bolger@y..., "jmbell1" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
>
> Let's see... The forecast for next week calls for lows in the single
> digits (F) and highs in the teens. If that's mild, I dread to think
> of what you consider cold!
>
> JB who's dreading the prospect of freezing his hinders off on the
> shores of the St. Lawrence next week.
Hi Don,
Arrrr matey! A full standing headroom den of evil delights with
appropriate devices suspended from the ceiling and secured to the
bulkheads all designed specifically to enhance ones pleasures;whether
it be"spanking","slapping" or the sublime" dragging the
anchor".Indeed,one may well desire to further explore and perhaps even
discover novel applications for such time honoured maritime activities
as"whipping",parcelling" or(my personal favorite)..."servicing"!
The connoisseur will observe my omission of the
nastier"lashing".This,I believe,is best kept in the domaine of the
neophyte and need not be exposed here,this robust bastion of good
hearted and well intentioned souls.
And as a final bow to all things decent and holy,WINDERMERE is
well insulated to minimize what may well excite an un-prepared prying
public ear from the sometimes melodious whoopings and howlings which
one should expect from practicing any of the above mentioned maritime
pleasures.And yes,the curtains will most certainly be drawn tight!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,well motivated.......here on the shores of the
St.Lawrence......
Arrrr matey! A full standing headroom den of evil delights with
appropriate devices suspended from the ceiling and secured to the
bulkheads all designed specifically to enhance ones pleasures;whether
it be"spanking","slapping" or the sublime" dragging the
anchor".Indeed,one may well desire to further explore and perhaps even
discover novel applications for such time honoured maritime activities
as"whipping",parcelling" or(my personal favorite)..."servicing"!
The connoisseur will observe my omission of the
nastier"lashing".This,I believe,is best kept in the domaine of the
neophyte and need not be exposed here,this robust bastion of good
hearted and well intentioned souls.
And as a final bow to all things decent and holy,WINDERMERE is
well insulated to minimize what may well excite an un-prepared prying
public ear from the sometimes melodious whoopings and howlings which
one should expect from practicing any of the above mentioned maritime
pleasures.And yes,the curtains will most certainly be drawn tight!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,well motivated.......here on the shores of the
St.Lawrence......
--- In bolger@y..., "dbaldnz" <dbaldnz@y...> wrote:
> Peter, regarding your previous inappropriate comments regarding
glass
> houses and Karma Sutra, I guess a greater "spanking area" was
largely
> behind your change to Windermere?
> :)
> DonB
Thomas,
Maybe I'm losing my mind on this one but,the one thing I've
noticed with"modern" construction methods using epoxy inside and out
to create monocoque structures is this;although they are
fantastically strong and water-tight they also tend to be noisier then
boats constructed in the traditional manner.Sound freely resonates
throughout the interior,like a well tuned drum.
On the other,a boat comprised of a number of species of wood
like oak for backbone and ribs;and cedar for planking all held
together with screws/nails,with caulking driven between appropriate
seams and the works sealed with oils or paint are like big sound
sponges loaded with sound damping opportunities.
I'm not sure just how big you have to go in"modern"construction
before sounds generated at one end of a boat are not telegraphed to
the other end but interior furniture combined with styrofoam
insulation will help absorb and deflect alot of the sound.
Mind you,as Mike Stockstill noted,one mans racket may be
another mans music.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.
Maybe I'm losing my mind on this one but,the one thing I've
noticed with"modern" construction methods using epoxy inside and out
to create monocoque structures is this;although they are
fantastically strong and water-tight they also tend to be noisier then
boats constructed in the traditional manner.Sound freely resonates
throughout the interior,like a well tuned drum.
On the other,a boat comprised of a number of species of wood
like oak for backbone and ribs;and cedar for planking all held
together with screws/nails,with caulking driven between appropriate
seams and the works sealed with oils or paint are like big sound
sponges loaded with sound damping opportunities.
I'm not sure just how big you have to go in"modern"construction
before sounds generated at one end of a boat are not telegraphed to
the other end but interior furniture combined with styrofoam
insulation will help absorb and deflect alot of the sound.
Mind you,as Mike Stockstill noted,one mans racket may be
another mans music.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan.
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> Thanks Peter and Mike,
>
> I guess I was counting on the stern being less audible
> up front, but that doesn't appear so. Anhinga has a
> submerged pointed stern, and might be an exception to
> some of this.
>
> TD
bsite.yahoo.ca
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
digits (F) and highs in the teens. If that's mild, I dread to think
of what you consider cold!
JB who's dreading the prospect of freezing his hinders off on the
shores of the St. Lawrence next week.
wrote:
> Peter Lenihan,thinking of spring with all this mild weather we'reLet's see... The forecast for next week calls for lows in the single
> having here,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
digits (F) and highs in the teens. If that's mild, I dread to think
of what you consider cold!
JB who's dreading the prospect of freezing his hinders off on the
shores of the St. Lawrence next week.
Peter, regarding your previous inappropriate comments regarding glass
houses and Karma Sutra, I guess a greater "spanking area" was largely
behind your change to Windermere?
:)
DonB
houses and Karma Sutra, I guess a greater "spanking area" was largely
behind your change to Windermere?
:)
DonB
> It is even worse as the area is even broader in the stern thus
> presenting that much more "spanking"surface area.For double
> enders,this is less an issue.
> This only applies to flat bottomed boats!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,thinking of spring with all this mild weather we're
> having here,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> > What is the experience regarding wave slap if one
> > anchored of the stern? .yahoo.ca
Thanks Peter and Mike,
I guess I was counting on the stern being less audible
up front, but that doesn't appear so. Anhinga has a
submerged pointed stern, and might be an exception to
some of this.
TD
--- mikestockstill <mkstocks@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
While staying at the marina (see my ...rides post) I
was not bothered <BR>
by the slap on the bow. The slap that sometimes
came from the stern <BR>
was pretty loud. <BR>
<BR>
Loud is a relative word. I consider quiet as
sitting in my office <BR>
staring at a computer terminal while working for hours
on end.<BR>
<BR>
Do not equate "sound of slap" with
"unpleasant" any more than you <BR>
would equate "quiet as a computer office" as
"pleasant"....<BR>
<BR>
Mike, very quiet at the moment, and would happly trade
it for some <BR>
slapping<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=915128/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http://shopping.yahoo.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01"
target=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_shopping/ps_lrec01.gif"
alt="" width="300" height="250"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=915128/rand=986716495"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
I guess I was counting on the stern being less audible
up front, but that doesn't appear so. Anhinga has a
submerged pointed stern, and might be an exception to
some of this.
TD
--- mikestockstill <mkstocks@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
While staying at the marina (see my ...rides post) I
was not bothered <BR>
by the slap on the bow. The slap that sometimes
came from the stern <BR>
was pretty loud. <BR>
<BR>
Loud is a relative word. I consider quiet as
sitting in my office <BR>
staring at a computer terminal while working for hours
on end.<BR>
<BR>
Do not equate "sound of slap" with
"unpleasant" any more than you <BR>
would equate "quiet as a computer office" as
"pleasant"....<BR>
<BR>
Mike, very quiet at the moment, and would happly trade
it for some <BR>
slapping<BR>
<BR>
> We did find the wave slap in the V-berth tobe<BR>
> annoying, and I think <BR><BR>boat<BR>
> this would be a problem for me if I was to own a
> of this type, <BR><BR><BR>
> e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc. <BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"
color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=915128/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http://shopping.yahoo.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01"
target=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_shopping/ps_lrec01.gif"
![http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_shopping/ps_lrec01.gif"](http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_shopping/ps_lrec01.gif"){kind=link}
alt="" width="300" height="250"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=915128/rand=986716495"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
While staying at the marina (see my ...rides post) I was not bothered
by the slap on the bow. The slap that sometimes came from the stern
was pretty loud.
Loud is a relative word. I consider quiet as sitting in my office
staring at a computer terminal while working for hours on end.
Do not equate "sound of slap" with "unpleasant" any more than you
would equate "quiet as a computer office" as "pleasant"....
Mike, very quiet at the moment, and would happly trade it for some
slapping
by the slap on the bow. The slap that sometimes came from the stern
was pretty loud.
Loud is a relative word. I consider quiet as sitting in my office
staring at a computer terminal while working for hours on end.
Do not equate "sound of slap" with "unpleasant" any more than you
would equate "quiet as a computer office" as "pleasant"....
Mike, very quiet at the moment, and would happly trade it for some
slapping
> We did find the wave slap in the V-berth to be
> annoying, and I think <BR>
> this would be a problem for me if I was to own a boat
> of this type, <BR>
> e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc.
Thomas,
It is even worse as the area is even broader in the stern thus
presenting that much more "spanking"surface area.For double
enders,this is less an issue.
This only applies to flat bottomed boats!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,thinking of spring with all this mild weather we're
having here,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
It is even worse as the area is even broader in the stern thus
presenting that much more "spanking"surface area.For double
enders,this is less an issue.
This only applies to flat bottomed boats!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,thinking of spring with all this mild weather we're
having here,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> What is the experience regarding wave slap if one
> anchored of the stern? .yahoo.ca
What is the experience regarding wave slap if one
anchored of the stern? Assuming one isn't ridding out
a big storm, or something where there might be a real
danger of taking water in, but just anchored in
conditions that are anoyingly noisy for the front
berth, why not just anchor stern to. Another
advantage to Anhinga et all?
We did find the wave slap in the V-berth to be
annoying, and I think <BR>
this would be a problem for me if I was to own a boat
of this type, <BR>
e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc.
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
anchored of the stern? Assuming one isn't ridding out
a big storm, or something where there might be a real
danger of taking water in, but just anchored in
conditions that are anoyingly noisy for the front
berth, why not just anchor stern to. Another
advantage to Anhinga et all?
We did find the wave slap in the V-berth to be
annoying, and I think <BR>
this would be a problem for me if I was to own a boat
of this type, <BR>
e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc.
______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business!http://website.yahoo.ca
I rented one of these boats in 1992 (I think). At the time the
business was looking a bit down. The boats were not all that well
maintained and a couple of them were anchored in an obvious state of
disrepair. Our boat was OK, although you had to spray quickstart into
the carb to start the motor, and the sails were a bit baggy.
We had a great time cruising the skimmer. I have a vivid memory of
coasting down one of those channels on a reach, lots of wind, seas
almost calm-- such a feeling of speed! These boats were truly ideal
for the area.
We did find the wave slap in the V-berth to be annoying, and I think
this would be a problem for me if I was to own a boat of this type,
e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc. We also found the upwind performance
poor, but that might have been the baggy sails.
The article brought it all back. Thanks.
Daniel Pike,
Still dark at 70 north,
Tromso, Norway.
business was looking a bit down. The boats were not all that well
maintained and a couple of them were anchored in an obvious state of
disrepair. Our boat was OK, although you had to spray quickstart into
the carb to start the motor, and the sails were a bit baggy.
We had a great time cruising the skimmer. I have a vivid memory of
coasting down one of those channels on a reach, lots of wind, seas
almost calm-- such a feeling of speed! These boats were truly ideal
for the area.
We did find the wave slap in the V-berth to be annoying, and I think
this would be a problem for me if I was to own a boat of this type,
e.g. Martha Jane, Jochems, etc. We also found the upwind performance
poor, but that might have been the baggy sails.
The article brought it all back. Thanks.
Daniel Pike,
Still dark at 70 north,
Tromso, Norway.
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, brucehallman wrote:
> > Reading the earlier posts about the charter rental of a Bolger
Black
> > Skimmer in Florida reminded me of the 1988 Small Boat Journal
article
> > "Cruise of the Black Skimmer" about this very boat. I posted the
> > article at:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
>
> Ah, this took me back! One of the restaurants mentioned was the
"Lore-lie
> Restaurant on Upper Matecumbe Key, dockage comes with the dinner",
where
> we visited, fed the fish over the edge, and then went home to our
room, to
> watch the slow-speed-OJ-chase on TV. It was quite an amazing day.
>
> -Chris
On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, brucehallman wrote:
Restaurant on Upper Matecumbe Key, dockage comes with the dinner", where
we visited, fed the fish over the edge, and then went home to our room, to
watch the slow-speed-OJ-chase on TV. It was quite an amazing day.
-Chris
> Reading the earlier posts about the charter rental of a Bolger BlackAh, this took me back! One of the restaurants mentioned was the "Lore-lie
> Skimmer in Florida reminded me of the 1988 Small Boat Journal article
> "Cruise of the Black Skimmer" about this very boat. I posted the
> article at:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
Restaurant on Upper Matecumbe Key, dockage comes with the dinner", where
we visited, fed the fish over the edge, and then went home to our room, to
watch the slow-speed-OJ-chase on TV. It was quite an amazing day.
-Chris
Reading the earlier posts about the charter rental of a Bolger Black
Skimmer in Florida reminded me of the 1988 Small Boat Journal
article "Cruise of the Black Skimmer" about this very boat. I posted
the article at:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
Skimmer in Florida reminded me of the 1988 Small Boat Journal
article "Cruise of the Black Skimmer" about this very boat. I posted
the article at:
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
Some thick fibrous material, like the bug-trapping stuff used in
roof-ridge vents, might be slung under the bow at anchor. Anyone got
some, to give it a try?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: dnjost [mailto:djost@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:37 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: 1988 SBJ Black Skimmer article. - wave slap
wave slap, halyard slap... I guess it depends on your timbre and
pitch preferance. I find that the slap of internal wire halyards in
an aluminum mast is the most obnoxious noise in the world (short of
getting three oboe players to play in tune with one another).
I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over the
bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of wave
slap. Has anyone tried this?
david jost
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
roof-ridge vents, might be slung under the bow at anchor. Anyone got
some, to give it a try?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: dnjost [mailto:djost@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:37 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: 1988 SBJ Black Skimmer article. - wave slap
wave slap, halyard slap... I guess it depends on your timbre and
pitch preferance. I find that the slap of internal wire halyards in
an aluminum mast is the most obnoxious noise in the world (short of
getting three oboe players to play in tune with one another).
I was wondering if some kind of a fabric bra to place over the
bow of a flat bottomed boat would help reduce the drum effect of wave
slap. Has anyone tried this?
david jost
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]