Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

Chuck:

I agree with your logic. When I am building with glue
only I have take that into consideration, and ensure
there is enough fiber in the mix, and that the joint
won't ever get wet. If you do that you are going to
be much stronger, and possibly lighter than if you
rely on screws and other structure, but there are
concequences for scantlings, and cost that have to
factored in.

--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Thomas: 
 
This brings up an interesting question: should
fasteners be used with glue? I think that if
screws are used properly, certain joints are stronger
than with glue alone. I think this applies
particularly to chine log - plywood joints where no
tape is used. If you take a piece of ply that is
glued to a piece of lumber, pressure will split the
layer of ply that is glued, leaving the rest of the
ply intact. A screw would add strength by
holding all the plys together. 
 
Chuck 

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Thomas:

This brings up an interesting question: should fasteners be used with glue? I think that if screws are used properly, certain joints are stronger than with glue alone. I think this applies particularly to chine log - plywood joints where no tape is used. If you take a piece of ply that is glued to a piece of lumber, pressure will split the layer of ply that is glued, leaving the rest of the ply intact. A screw would add strength by holding all the plys together.

Chuck
Most of the boats I have made have been fully
bonded, no resident fasteners. In that case, I am
totally relying on the quality of the bond, and want
to be sure it is very good.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Right, "tooth" is a clear indication we are talking
about a "glue" with low chemical bonding ability.
Poly has a poor bond so anything that might help is
essential. But epoxy is only part of the bond, there
is wood there also, or glass. Sanding cleans the
surface of oxydized material, and also heats it up a
bit. A dry surace is essential. Glass for instance
should be stored in a hot box to drive out excess
moisture. A nice hot sanding with a ROS may do the
same thing.

--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Wasn't he talking about polyester resin? 
 
Chuck 
It is "sort of" mentioned in the
Instant Boat books. 
When Payson talks of applying cloth with resin
he always says to rough up 
the area with 80 grit to give it
"tooth". 
The roughned surface is there for the resin,
not the colth. 
 
James Fuller 
 
 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 



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It probably does, something like a phenoloc resin, but
it doesn't mean it is irrelevant. It works either
way. Most of the boats I have made have been fully
bonded, no resident fasteners. In that case, I am
totally relying on the quality of the bond, and want
to be sure it is very good. As I suppose you are
implying Chuck, this is easy with epoxy. Agreed, but
bonds can fail, and this isn't going to be one of the
reasons on my boat. And then as the project
progresses one is into secondary bonding issues, so
the process repeats itself. One thing I don't worry
about much with epoxy is the sanding dust. In other
applications that dust can negate the bond, with
epoxy, it just becomes part of the mix. So if I
prepare the joint with a few seconds of sanding, I
don't recontaminate it with a lot of hand wipping or
something.

--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
wrote:

<HR>
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<tt>
Jeff: 
 
While you are reading that book (in order to report
back to us), be sure and determine what types of glue
they are talking about. I have a feeling that
this 24 hour thing may refer to other (than epoxy)
types of glue. 
 
Chuck 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeff Blunck 
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber 
 
 
Downloaded and printed. (Entire
manual) 
 
I didn't know that sanding was that
important. I don't remember ever seeing that in
the library of boat building books that I have
accumulated over the years. 
 
Thanks 
 
Jeff 
 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: dickpilz 
 To:bolger@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002
2:07 PM 
 Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyo
Lumber 
 
 
 Hi, Jeff, 
 
 Check out Chapter 9 of the Wood
Products handbook, "Adhesive Bonding 
 of Wood Materials". It
discusses various cutting painting/sanding 
 options, especially about the need
for gluing within 24 hours of 
 surface prep. 
 
 The URL is: 
 <a
href="http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf">http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf</a> 
 
 Get the rest of the handbook, too
if you can spare the download 
 time/disk space at 
 <a
href="http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm">http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm</a> 
 
 As a taxpayer, you've already paid
for it :-) 
 
 --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff
Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote: 
 > Day old surface? 
 > 
 > I have not heard that as far
as gluing. I don't sand anything 
 before gluing, should I? 
 > 
 > Jeff 
 > ----- Original
Message ----- 
 > From: thomas
dalzell 
 > To: bolger@y...
 
 > Sent: Thursday,
January 17, 2002 11:45 AM 
 > Subject: Re:
[bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber 
 > 
 > 
 > I feel the saw
marks are better for gluing. A new 
 > planner blade will
leave wood that nearly shines, and 
 > an old one will
leave compresed ridges. Neither is 
 > ideal for
gluing. Any day old surface probably needs 
 > sanding , though
in the real world epoxy can 
 > successfuly glue
certain species left in almost any 
 > condition, while
others are a little more fluky. 
 
 8< Remainder of thread snipped

>8

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This is one of those old chesnuts. I don't always
sand surfaces before I glue, but the research that has
been done on dry wood shows its gluability decreases
over time. A smooth surface is also somewhat
resistant. The Japanese have a number of methods for
polishig and compacting softwoods including planing
and burnishing. These are not going to help glueing.
They are the sort of glazings that a planer can offer,
though the result is rarely like a finish. But then
the thing is that good glue joints are stronger than
the surrounding wood, so how much do you need to
worry? If you do prepare the surface for epoxy
gluing, at least you don't have to guess at its
condition, and that is the reason I often scuff it up
a bit.

--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:

<HR>
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<tt>
Day old surface? 
 
I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't
sand anything before gluing, should I? 
 
Jeff 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: thomas dalzell 
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber 
 
 
I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A
new 
planner blade will leave wood that nearly
shines, and 
an old one will leave compresed ridges.
Neither is 
ideal for gluing. Any day old surface
probably needs 
sanding , though in the real world epoxy
can 
successfuly glue certain species left in almost
any 
condition, while others are a little more
fluky. 
--- David Ryan
<david@...> wrote: 
 
<HR> 
<html><body> 
 
 
<tt> 
>Thickness planer is very useful tool,
you will use 
it for more than 
>this project. Any time you nees wood
faced off for 
glueing, or to 
>make sure all of your boards are the
same 
thickness, it is 
>indispencible. 
 
I have been wondering, would the surface left
by a 
ripping pass with 
a skill saw be better or worse than a planed
surface 
when using 
thicken epoxy for glue? 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor 
New York, New York 10001 
<a 
href="<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a>"><a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a></a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt> 
 
 
 
 
 
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<tt> 
Bolger rules!!! 
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topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your
posts, 
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O.
Box 1209, 
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:  

bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt> 
 
 
 
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Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
flogging dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay
on topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O.
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282-1349 
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<tt>
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
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I think that he was talking about both epoxy and polyester. The West manual
gives the same directions
and they certainly wouldnt be talking about polyester!

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

> Wasn't he talking about polyester resin?
>
> Chuck
> It is "sort of" mentioned in the Instant Boat books.
> When Payson talks of applying cloth with resin he always says to rough
up
> the area with 80 grit to give it "tooth".
> The roughned surface is there for the resin, not the colth.
>
> James Fuller
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

It is "sort of" mentioned in the Instant Boat books.
When Payson talks of applying cloth with resin he always says to rough up
the area with 80 grit to give it "tooth".
The roughned surface is there for the resin, not the colth.

James Fuller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

> Downloaded and printed. (Entire manual)
>
> I didn't know that sanding was that important. I don't remember ever
seeing that in the library of boat building books that I have accumulated
over the years.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dickpilz
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 2:07 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber
>
>
> Hi, Jeff,
>
> Check out Chapter 9 of the Wood Products handbook, "Adhesive Bonding
> of Wood Materials". It discusses various cutting painting/sanding
> options, especially about the need for gluing within 24 hours of
> surface prep.
>
> The URL is:
>http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf
>
> Get the rest of the handbook, too if you can spare the download
> time/disk space at
>http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
>
> As a taxpayer, you've already paid for it :-)
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > Day old surface?
> >
> > I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't sand anything
> before gluing, should I?
> >
> > Jeff
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thomas dalzell
> > To: bolger@y...
> > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber
> >
> >
> > I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
> > planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
> > an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
> > ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
> > sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
> > successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
> > condition, while others are a little more fluky.
>
> 8< Remainder of thread snipped >8
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I remember the part in Payson's book and he refers to Polyester through out.

I'm glad we have a 70 PPM printer here at work, that 479 page book would have been a pain on my ink jet at home. :>) ( VP privileges )

I'll check up on chapter nine tonight and let you all know! :>)

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Leinweber
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

Wasn't he talking about polyester resin?

Chuck
It is "sort of" mentioned in the Instant Boat books.
When Payson talks of applying cloth with resin he always says to rough up
the area with 80 grit to give it "tooth".
The roughned surface is there for the resin, not the colth.

James Fuller

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Chuck,

The chapter in the manual covers _ALL_ types of adhesives for wood.
It discusses the effect of exuded wood extractives and other
contaminents. Think of a quick sanding prep for gluing as analogous
to using a tack rag when varnishing or painting. It's a small
additional percentage of effort that can ensure a good job.

--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> Jeff:
>
> While you are reading that book (in order to report back to us), be
sure and determine what types of glue they are talking about. I have
a feeling that this 24 hour thing may refer to other (than epoxy)
types of glue.
>
> Chuck

Wasn't he talking about polyester resin?

Chuck
It is "sort of" mentioned in the Instant Boat books.
When Payson talks of applying cloth with resin he always says to rough up
the area with 80 grit to give it "tooth".
The roughned surface is there for the resin, not the colth.

James Fuller

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff:

While you are reading that book (in order to report back to us), be sure and determine what types of glue they are talking about. I have a feeling that this 24 hour thing may refer to other (than epoxy) types of glue.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Blunck
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

Downloaded and printed. (Entire manual)

I didn't know that sanding was that important. I don't remember ever seeing that in the library of boat building books that I have accumulated over the years.

Thanks

Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: dickpilz
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

Hi, Jeff,

Check out Chapter 9 of the Wood Products handbook, "Adhesive Bonding
of Wood Materials". It discusses various cutting painting/sanding
options, especially about the need for gluing within 24 hours of
surface prep.

The URL is:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf

Get the rest of the handbook, too if you can spare the download
time/disk space at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

As a taxpayer, you've already paid for it :-)

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Day old surface?
>
> I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't sand anything
before gluing, should I?
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thomas dalzell
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber
>
>
> I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
> planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
> an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
> ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
> sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
> successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
> condition, while others are a little more fluky.

8< Remainder of thread snipped >8

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Bolger rules!!!
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- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jeff, I've had a planer for the last 15 years or so. I have been
able to pick up rough cherry for cheap from local sawmills and have
furnished our whole house with cabinets with cherry doors, counter
tops etc that would have been impossible if I had to pay finish lumber
prices. My floors are pine (not everyone's cup of tea) that was all
run through a planer. Labor intensive but very satisfying. I paid too
much for my planer 15 years ago but these days planers are available
at reasonable prices and if you do any woodworking at all will
eventually pay for themselves and then some if you take advantage of
local sources.

I have used the "Wood Handbook" as a prime reference for 40 years or
so and pay attention however I also pay attention to experience. I've
never had a wood to wood epoxy glue joint fail because of adhesion to
the planed surface. But with this new information (my manual is before
epoxy was common) it doesn't seem laborious to run a sanding pad with
80 grit over surfaces to be glued if one wants to be scrupulous.
Bob Chamberland

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Downloaded and printed. (Entire manual)
>
> I didn't know that sanding was that important. I don't remember
ever seeing that in the library of boat building books that I have
accumulated over the years.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff

Downloaded and printed. (Entire manual)

I didn't know that sanding was that important. I don't remember ever seeing that in the library of boat building books that I have accumulated over the years.

Thanks

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: dickpilz
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

Hi, Jeff,

Check out Chapter 9 of the Wood Products handbook, "Adhesive Bonding
of Wood Materials". It discusses various cutting painting/sanding
options, especially about the need for gluing within 24 hours of
surface prep.

The URL is:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf

Get the rest of the handbook, too if you can spare the download
time/disk space at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

As a taxpayer, you've already paid for it :-)

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Day old surface?
>
> I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't sand anything
before gluing, should I?
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thomas dalzell
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber
>
>
> I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
> planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
> an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
> ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
> sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
> successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
> condition, while others are a little more fluky.

8< Remainder of thread snipped >8

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ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Jeff,

Check out Chapter 9 of the Wood Products handbook, "Adhesive Bonding
of Wood Materials". It discusses various cutting painting/sanding
options, especially about the need for gluing within 24 hours of
surface prep.

The URL is:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch09.pdf

Get the rest of the handbook, too if you can spare the download
time/disk space at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

As a taxpayer, you've already paid for it :-)

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Day old surface?
>
> I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't sand anything
before gluing, should I?
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thomas dalzell
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber
>
>
> I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
> planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
> an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
> ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
> sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
> successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
> condition, while others are a little more fluky.

8< Remainder of thread snipped >8

Day old surface?

I have not heard that as far as gluing. I don't sand anything before gluing, should I?

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: thomas dalzell
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
condition, while others are a little more fluky.
--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
>Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use
it for more than 
>this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for
glueing, or to 
>make sure all of your boards are the same
thickness, it is 
>indispencible. 
 
I have been wondering, would the surface left by a
ripping pass with 
a skill saw be better or worse than a planed surface
when using 
thicken epoxy for glue? 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor 
New York, New York 10001 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
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______________________________________________________________________
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ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I feel the saw marks are better for gluing. A new
planner blade will leave wood that nearly shines, and
an old one will leave compresed ridges. Neither is
ideal for gluing. Any day old surface probably needs
sanding , though in the real world epoxy can
successfuly glue certain species left in almost any
condition, while others are a little more fluky.
--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>

>Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use

it for more than

>this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for

glueing, or to

>make sure all of your boards are the same

thickness, it is

>indispencible.

I have been wondering, would the surface left by a
ripping pass with 
a skill saw be better or worse than a planed surface
when using 
thicken epoxy for glue? 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor 
New York, New York 10001 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


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I have owned an Inca over and under planner, and a
King 16", a Ryobi 10.5". All sold. The first 2 for
what I payed for them, in number, though without tax,
and inflation at the time had dropped the value of the
money I got back a few points. Remember Inflation?
The Ryobi I sold for about 75% of what I paid for it.
I didn't feel right asking for more since they keep
improving them year over year.

Currently I have an old Delta portable and a 16"
General.

I can agree with the idea that the prtables hold their
value well enough, and can be owned for the duration
of a boat job for about $60.

--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
What about buying one for the project with the plans
of selling it 
cheap when you're done. If you're willing to take a
low price, it 
should be too hard to get rid of. Call the difference
the rental of 
the tool. 
 
-D

>I have a small powerful table saw but no

planer. I've thought about

>it but hate to invest in one for just one

project. Fun tool to have

>though but no space in the garage either, it's

already filled with

>tools. 
> 
>Jeff 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Chuck Leinweber 
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002

6:55 PM

> Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber 
> 
> 
> Jeff: 
> 
> Have you thought about buying one of

those cheap planers? For a

>large consignment of lumber, you could pay for a

nice tool. I have

>one of the little Makitas and I use it all the

time. I think you

>can get one for around $400. 
> 
> 
>[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> 
> 
> 
>Bolger rules!!! 
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or

flogging dead horses

>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on

topic, and punctuate

>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your

posts, snip all you like

>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box

1209, Gloucester,

>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
>- Unsubscribe:

bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> 
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a

href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a> 
 
 
C.E.P. 
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor 
New York, New York 10001 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
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It will be slow planing several hundred board feet
through a small planer, but it is none the less way
high on the must have tool list in my shop, I have 2,
or three if tyou count the drum sander. The portables
just keep getting better, and can prove useful for
countless tasks. Certainly the first time I hit a big
job where the alternative was paying someone else to
own one, I jumped at the chance to get mine, and have
never looked back. The portables are only about 5%
the size of the pile of DF you are planing to buy.

Yours in rationalisation,

TD
--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
I have a small powerful table saw but no planer.
I've thought about it but hate to invest in one for
just one project. Fun tool to have though but no
space in the garage either, it's already filled with
tools. 
 
Jeff 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Chuck Leinweber 
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber 
 
 
Jeff: 
 
Have you thought about buying one of those
cheap planers? For a large consignment of
lumber, you could pay for a nice tool. I have
one of the little Makitas and I use it all the
time. I think you can get one for around
$400. 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
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Better or worse in what way? Epoxy will tear a chunk out of both the
planed and the sawn surfaces if you drop a dab on either. The planed
surface is a known thickness, and is smoother, hence will require
less epoxy.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use it for more than
> >this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for glueing, or to
> >make sure all of your boards are the same thickness, it is
> >indispencible.
>
> I have been wondering, would the surface left by a ripping pass
with
> a skill saw be better or worse than a planed surface when using
> thicken epoxy for glue?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

if you get a planer/molder you can take it with you when you go
cruising. you can then provide a service to the local woodworkers by
making custom molding.

da

--- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
> Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use it for more than
> this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for glueing, or to
> make sure all of your boards are the same thickness, it is
> indispencible.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > I have a small powerful table saw but no planer. I've thought
> about it but hate to invest in one for just one project. Fun tool
to
> have though but no space in the garage either, it's already filled
> with tools.

>Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use it for more than
>this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for glueing, or to
>make sure all of your boards are the same thickness, it is
>indispencible.

I have been wondering, would the surface left by a ripping pass with
a skill saw be better or worse than a planed surface when using
thicken epoxy for glue?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Thickness planer is very useful tool, you will use it for more than
this project. Any time you nees wood faced off for glueing, or to
make sure all of your boards are the same thickness, it is
indispencible.

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I have a small powerful table saw but no planer. I've thought
about it but hate to invest in one for just one project. Fun tool to
have though but no space in the garage either, it's already filled
with tools.
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Leinweber
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber
>
>
> Jeff:
>
> Have you thought about buying one of those cheap planers? For a
large consignment of lumber, you could pay for a nice tool. I have
one of the little Makitas and I use it all the time. I think you can
get one for around $400.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

True, I hadn't thought of that angle. We are planning on selling off almost everything when we head out. House, cars, etc. We'll repurchase after we get back. No insurance, rent, no storage cost, etc.

Want to live closer to work anyway.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

What about buying one for the project with the plans of selling it
cheap when you're done. If you're willing to take a low price, it
should be too hard to get rid of. Call the difference the rental of
the tool.

-D

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What about buying one for the project with the plans of selling it
cheap when you're done. If you're willing to take a low price, it
should be too hard to get rid of. Call the difference the rental of
the tool.

-D

>I have a small powerful table saw but no planer. I've thought about
>it but hate to invest in one for just one project. Fun tool to have
>though but no space in the garage either, it's already filled with
>tools.
>
>Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Leinweber
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber
>
>
> Jeff:
>
> Have you thought about buying one of those cheap planers? For a
>large consignment of lumber, you could pay for a nice tool. I have
>one of the little Makitas and I use it all the time. I think you
>can get one for around $400.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

I have a small powerful table saw but no planer. I've thought about it but hate to invest in one for just one project. Fun tool to have though but no space in the garage either, it's already filled with tools.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Leinweber
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

Jeff:

Have you thought about buying one of those cheap planers? For a large consignment of lumber, you could pay for a nice tool. I have one of the little Makitas and I use it all the time. I think you can get one for around $400.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I called the number, they don't stock it but can special order. Have to take at least 1/2 pallet but they are going to scour around for me.

Thanks

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: rdchamberland
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wyo Lumber

When I lived in Denver I built my Tremolino as a gold plater by todays
definition. I purchased clear VG douglasfir from Stark Lumber Co.
1-303-534-8263. The price was high but I don't think any higher than
has been suggested. If you're in Colorado it's worth giving them a
call. By now marine plywood should be available in the area also.
Bob Chamberland

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

About that doug fir, is it second growth or old growth?
BIG difference.

Look in the photo section under "doug fir 2x6's" to see the
difference between our local lumberyard and Home Depot.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/vwp?.dir=/&.dnm=Two+doug+f
ir+2x6%27s.jpg&.src=gr&.view=t

Rick

You can also bolt a skil saw upside down to a piece of plywood and clamp
on a length of angle iron for a fence for a quick and dirty tablesaw.

Hj

brucehallman wrote:

>
> > lumber as I know, I can get 2x4 DF for 50 cents a foot. Rip it in
> > half and you've (just about) got 1 1/2" square stock at 25 cents a
>
> Ripping 2x lumber is super easy if you use a Skilsaw ripping
> attachment
>
>

Western Red cedar is a wonderful light weight wood to work with.
Resistant to rot, and fairly strong, often used for planking. Doesn't
take a hit well at all, so you do have to protect it. The sawdust is
somewhat toxic but smells wonderful. I would not hesitate to substitute
it for DF.

Get your sharp plane lined up on a clear piece 15 long, there is both
feeling and a sound to a sharp plane cutting the full length of the
board, that I can't put to words. You watch that beautiful colored
shaving come spiraling out of the plane, and smell that delightful red
cedar smell.

Tactile, audio, visual and olfactory orgasm dude.

HJ

Jeff Blunck wrote:

>
> I tried a local cedar fence building supply and they can get reasonably clear 2" x 2" western red cedar for $473.00 total. This is smooth finished with slightly rounded corners for hand rails on decks.
>
> Does anyone see a problem with western red cedar instead of DF? Most of the use is for gluing surfaces. Would it work for rub rails if I capped it in a layer of 3/4" white ash for abrasion?
>
> Jeff
>

Jeff:

Have you thought about buying one of those cheap planers? For a large consignment of lumber, you could pay for a nice tool. I have one of the little Makitas and I use it all the time. I think you can get one for around $400.
I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight grained with minimal knots. Going price around here locally is $4.60 a BF for 8/4 stock rough. By the time I get it planed 2 sides ($1.00 per BF) to get a nominal 1 1/2" thick and then rip it to size I'd get about 33% waste. I'd have $7.11 / BF. I don't have access to stock DF 2 X 4 boards. The bid I got was for them to do the cutting and sanding. Shipping for the fir is about $200.00 so it's as cheap for them to do it than for me to do the labor of cutting. Plus the DF around here is not real good.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I lived in Denver I built my Tremolino as a gold plater by todays
definition. I purchased clear VG douglasfir from Stark Lumber Co.
1-303-534-8263. The price was high but I don't think any higher than
has been suggested. If you're in Colorado it's worth giving them a
call. By now marine plywood should be available in the area also.
Bob Chamberland

>
> Naw, welcome to Colorado. A state ripe with pine and more pine.
>
> Be careful it's not HemFir too!
>
> I only need 65 good DF 2"x4'' s, 8 feet long. Ripped they would

yield 130 1 11/16" boards and that gives me 1040 linear feet. Maybe I
can take 70 just to be able to sort out some bad ones.

>
> Locally I can order special but the volume ranges from a pallet of

275 to 1/4 rail car. ( 2" x 4"s )

>
> I hate to keeping banging away on the group about DF. I've gotten

and education to say the least, and that's just in the planning stages
of a Wyo. Big boat, big issues.

>
> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I just bought a pretty nice, DFir 2x4 by 12 feet <for $3.88 at my
>local Home Depot near San Francicso, $0.48 a <board foot. Must be the
>trucking cost :)

Naw, welcome to Colorado. A state ripe with pine and more pine.

Be careful it's not HemFir too!

I only need 65 good DF 2"x4'' s, 8 feet long. Ripped they would yield 130 1 11/16" boards and that gives me 1040 linear feet. Maybe I can take 70 just to be able to sort out some bad ones.

Locally I can order special but the volume ranges from a pallet of 275 to 1/4 rail car. ( 2" x 4"s )

I hate to keeping banging away on the group about DF. I've gotten and education to say the least, and that's just in the planning stages of a Wyo. Big boat, big issues.

Thanks everyone for your ideas and support.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:

>Going price around here locally is $4.60 a BF for 8/4 stock rough.

I just bought a pretty nice, DFir 2x4 by 12 feet for $3.88 at my
local Home Depot near San Francicso, $0.48 a board foot. Must be the
trucking cost :)

> lumber as I know, I can get 2x4 DF for 50 cents a foot. Rip it in
> half and you've (just about) got 1 1/2" square stock at 25 cents a

Ripping 2x lumber is super easy if you use a Skilsaw ripping
attachment

http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg

All excellent points. Scrap the cedar.

----- Original Message -----
From: Orr, Jamie
To: 'bolger@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

Sorry, I see a problem. I love red cedar for canoes, but it is soft and
relatively brittle. It won't hold screws as well as fir, and is nowhere
near as strong. It's primary use in boats is planking. I don't think it
makes sense to skimp on the basic structure -- build a rock-solid hull and
skimp on the nonstructural stuff instead. For a boat the size of Wyoming,
what is the saving over fir in relation to what the boat is going to cost in
total before it's ready to go?

My opinion only, but you asked....

For rubrails, I found some meranti at a specialty outfit that I thought was
very reasonable. Since shipping is likely to be your biggest headache, can
you work out everything you'll need and order it all at once from a single
supplier that regularly carries boat lumber? This might get you a better
price and should keep shipping to the minimum, even if you have to pay some
interest to manage the cash flow.

Jamie Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: January 16, 2002 9:02 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

I tried a local cedar fence building supply and they can get reasonably
clear 2" x 2" western red cedar for $473.00 total. This is smooth finished
with slightly rounded corners for hand rails on decks.

Does anyone see a problem with western red cedar instead of DF? Most of the
use is for gluing surfaces. Would it work for rub rails if I capped it in a
layer of 3/4" white ash for abrasion?

Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

>I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight
>grained with minimal knots.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is probably the difference. If I was ripping the local 2x stock,
I'd end up with a lot of waste from knots that would be too big in a
1.5 x 1.5

I remember now that when I was trying to build masts for the LSME, I
got a quote of $8/foot for grade 1 DF 4x4 -- about the same as your
price.

-D

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, I see a problem. I love red cedar for canoes, but it is soft and
relatively brittle. It won't hold screws as well as fir, and is nowhere
near as strong. It's primary use in boats is planking. I don't think it
makes sense to skimp on the basic structure -- build a rock-solid hull and
skimp on the nonstructural stuff instead. For a boat the size of Wyoming,
what is the saving over fir in relation to what the boat is going to cost in
total before it's ready to go?

My opinion only, but you asked....

For rubrails, I found some meranti at a specialty outfit that I thought was
very reasonable. Since shipping is likely to be your biggest headache, can
you work out everything you'll need and order it all at once from a single
supplier that regularly carries boat lumber? This might get you a better
price and should keep shipping to the minimum, even if you have to pay some
interest to manage the cash flow.

Jamie Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blunck [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: January 16, 2002 9:02 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

I tried a local cedar fence building supply and they can get reasonably
clear 2" x 2" western red cedar for $473.00 total. This is smooth finished
with slightly rounded corners for hand rails on decks.

Does anyone see a problem with western red cedar instead of DF? Most of the
use is for gluing surfaces. Would it work for rub rails if I capped it in a
layer of 3/4" white ash for abrasion?

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

>I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight
>grained with minimal knots.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is probably the difference. If I was ripping the local 2x stock,
I'd end up with a lot of waste from knots that would be too big in a
1.5 x 1.5

I remember now that when I was trying to build masts for the LSME, I
got a quote of $8/foot for grade 1 DF 4x4 -- about the same as your
price.

-D

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Jeff Blunck wrote:

> I tried a local cedar fence building supply and they can get
> reasonably clear 2" x 2" western red cedar for $473.00 total. This
> is smooth finished with slightly rounded corners for hand rails on
> decks. Does anyone see a problem with western red cedar instead of DF?
> Most of the use is for gluing surfaces. Would it work for rub rails
> if I capped it in a layer of 3/4" white ash for abrasion?

I don't like it. It's not dimensionally stable, it's very soft, and it
splinters. It will crush like styrofoam against a dock. In my opinion,
western red cedar does not hold fastenings well, either. I have some on
my deck of my house. Every year I must go around and re-nail all the
nails back into place. The movement from moisture absorpotion/evaporation
pushes the heads up readily.

3/4" white ash is a *lot* of wood. Why would you need cedar underneath
it?

I tried a local cedar fence building supply and they can get reasonably clear 2" x 2" western red cedar for $473.00 total. This is smooth finished with slightly rounded corners for hand rails on decks.

Does anyone see a problem with western red cedar instead of DF? Most of the use is for gluing surfaces. Would it work for rub rails if I capped it in a layer of 3/4" white ash for abrasion?

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Wyo Lumber

>I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight
>grained with minimal knots.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is probably the difference. If I was ripping the local 2x stock,
I'd end up with a lot of waste from knots that would be too big in a
1.5 x 1.5

I remember now that when I was trying to build masts for the LSME, I
got a quote of $8/foot for grade 1 DF 4x4 -- about the same as your
price.

-D

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight
>grained with minimal knots.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is probably the difference. If I was ripping the local 2x stock,
I'd end up with a lot of waste from knots that would be too big in a
1.5 x 1.5

I remember now that when I was trying to build masts for the LSME, I
got a quote of $8/foot for grade 1 DF 4x4 -- about the same as your
price.

-D

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

I don't think the DF is extra special stuff other than good straight grained with minimal knots. Going price around here locally is $4.60 a BF for 8/4 stock rough. By the time I get it planed 2 sides ($1.00 per BF) to get a nominal 1 1/2" thick and then rip it to size I'd get about 33% waste. I'd have $7.11 / BF. I don't have access to stock DF 2 X 4 boards. The bid I got was for them to do the cutting and sanding. Shipping for the fir is about $200.00 so it's as cheap for them to do it than for me to do the labor of cutting. Plus the DF around here is not real good.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Just got an estimate in:
>-------------------------
>
>330 BF of DF is needed to mill out 1000 lineal feet of
>Douglas Fir, 1 1/2" square stock.
>Including milling - $2110.00

Shopping here in Montauk, which is about as expensive a place to buy
lumber as I know, I can get 2x4 DF for 50 cents a foot. Rip it in
half and you've (just about) got 1 1/2" square stock at 25 cents a
foot.

I know they're doing the cutting for you, but you're still paying
over $2/foot not counting shipping. Seems high to me.

Is this extra special DF?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Just got an estimate in:
-------------------------

330 BF of DF is needed to mill out 1000 lineal feet of
Douglas Fir, 1 1/2" square stock.
Including milling - $2110.00

100 sheets 12mm Marine grade Okume BS6566 - $5632.00

Shipping and packaging is $1450.00 from WA state.

Total $9392.00

1 week lead time for milling, 2 weeks for shipping.

---------------------------------

This is a do-able price for top knotch first class stuff. The only
thing better would be Okume BS1088 which is over kill unless it's
going to be a varnished gold plater.

MDO and yellow pine about $3000.00 less, but the boat would weight
about 800 lbs. more.

I wonder if the resale value would be enhanced to make up the
difference?

Still waiting for the Meranti 6566 bid to be finalize but I assume
it'll be somewhere in the middle.

Jeff