[bolger] Re: Spritsail
On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, John Kohnen wrote:
a heavy, heavy, catboat-shaped centerboard hull, carvel planked, and quite
handsome, and probably slightly under-rigged. The tide was low, and the
breeze was brisk.
The boat sailed well on all points, and we had a great time, except for
repeatedly running hard aground--those photos we've all seen of events at
the Seaport make the Mystic River look wide and pleasant, but it's
*shallow* in parts.
However, going dead down wind, which we had to do a couple of times, given
the draft constraints, was tricky. The sail can collapse, without a boom
to hold it out (the sprit is not efficient at keeping the sail out over
the gunwhale). It made me nervous, although we were never in any real
danger at any time.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I'm just a learner when it comes to spritsails myself, but in the fewThis is my experience, too. I sailed a spritsail boat at Mystic Seaport,
> outings I've had so far with one I think I'm getting an idea of how
> they work. As the design name hints, my Footloose has a loose footed
> sail. Though I've read that this can cause some excitement going
> downwind in a strong wind (haven't tried that myself yet), going
> upwind it doesn't seem to be a handicap.
a heavy, heavy, catboat-shaped centerboard hull, carvel planked, and quite
handsome, and probably slightly under-rigged. The tide was low, and the
breeze was brisk.
The boat sailed well on all points, and we had a great time, except for
repeatedly running hard aground--those photos we've all seen of events at
the Seaport make the Mystic River look wide and pleasant, but it's
*shallow* in parts.
However, going dead down wind, which we had to do a couple of times, given
the draft constraints, was tricky. The sail can collapse, without a boom
to hold it out (the sprit is not efficient at keeping the sail out over
the gunwhale). It made me nervous, although we were never in any real
danger at any time.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
The Queek & Dirty GIF is now in the Vault:
EF_Knight_Leeboard.gif
EF_Knight_Leeboard.gif
The Knight book at the Arthur Ransome pages is Sailing, not Small Boat
Sailing:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/knight.htm
stuff, but in character with most sailing books of the late
1800s-early1900s, edition to edition did not change much.
Sailing:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/knight.htm
>>>Virtually the same book. Later editions got a retitling and some more
stuff, but in character with most sailing books of the late
1800s-early1900s, edition to edition did not change much.
Don-
I'm just a learner when it comes to spritsails myself, but in the few
outings I've had so far with one I think I'm getting an idea of how they
work. As the design name hints, my Footloose has a loose footed sail.
Though I've read that this can cause some excitement going downwind in a
strong wind (haven't tried that myself yet), going upwind it doesn't seem
to be a handicap. Here are a couple of guesses about your excessive sail
twist: Make sure the sprit is well peaked up. Check your sheeting angle,
as a starting point, when close-hauled the line of the sheet, if extended,
should point to the throat of the sail. Make multiple sheeting points so
you can experiment, my skiff has little pinrails on the quarters. If all
else fails you can rig a vang to the peak of the sail, but that's an extra
complication. A sail with more peak to it is supposed to twist less.
When I bought my skiff last fall I took it out to our local mudhole for a
spin. I hadn't sailed at all in many years, and had never dealt with a
spritsail. In spite of that I managed to get the boat back upwind after a
run down the lake, even though I kept getting myself tangled up in the
double sheets just about every time I tacked! <g> The boat was making
enough headway to windward to make up for what was lost while I untangled
myself. I've only managed to get out a couple more times since, but I'm
already getting comfortable with the spritsail, though there are some
things I'm probably going to change about how my boat's rig is set up. In
general I think the spritsail works fine. Maybe by next fall I'll be a
spritsail expert. <g>
I'm just a learner when it comes to spritsails myself, but in the few
outings I've had so far with one I think I'm getting an idea of how they
work. As the design name hints, my Footloose has a loose footed sail.
Though I've read that this can cause some excitement going downwind in a
strong wind (haven't tried that myself yet), going upwind it doesn't seem
to be a handicap. Here are a couple of guesses about your excessive sail
twist: Make sure the sprit is well peaked up. Check your sheeting angle,
as a starting point, when close-hauled the line of the sheet, if extended,
should point to the throat of the sail. Make multiple sheeting points so
you can experiment, my skiff has little pinrails on the quarters. If all
else fails you can rig a vang to the peak of the sail, but that's an extra
complication. A sail with more peak to it is supposed to twist less.
When I bought my skiff last fall I took it out to our local mudhole for a
spin. I hadn't sailed at all in many years, and had never dealt with a
spritsail. In spite of that I managed to get the boat back upwind after a
run down the lake, even though I kept getting myself tangled up in the
double sheets just about every time I tacked! <g> The boat was making
enough headway to windward to make up for what was lost while I untangled
myself. I've only managed to get out a couple more times since, but I'm
already getting comfortable with the spritsail, though there are some
things I'm probably going to change about how my boat's rig is set up. In
general I think the spritsail works fine. Maybe by next fall I'll be a
spritsail expert. <g>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:45 -0600, Don Hodges wrote:
> John,
>
> You are probably right about the cut of my spritsail - I just whacked it out
> of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
> angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also loose-footed
> and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
> always a poor course of action).
>
> Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist from
> foot to peak on a beat....
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for;
as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. <H. L. Mencken>
Here is the link, David & Don:
http://www.apci.net/~michalak/15jul99.htm
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.hilconet.com/~dworksmg
http://www.apci.net/~michalak/15jul99.htm
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.hilconet.com/~dworksmg
----- Original Message -----
From: David Beede <juliejj@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
> Don,
> You might check out Jim Michilaks newsletters. He has a good article
> on adding shape to sails with 2 darts. I used his technique on the lug
> sail on my Featherwind and it worked well. Don't have the link handy but
> his index is on my LINKS page in the signature.
> Good Luck,
> David
>
> Donald Hodges wrote:
>
> >
> > John,
>
> You are probably right about the cut of my spritsail - I just whacked it
out
> of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
> angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also
loose-footed
> and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
> always a poor course of action).
>
> Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist
from
> foot to peak on a beat.
>
> I would appreciate any input on shaping cuts which might improve it. It
> will probably remain polytarp - this is a disposable boat, although it
> really does row nicely and gives me an "impulse" boat to use at the
> slightest provocation.
>
> Don Hodges
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 2:06 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
>
> > Don-
> >
> > The sprit rig will got to windward fine. I've got one on my Footloose
> > sailing skiff, and while it does have some minor annoying traits
(because
> > of the way mine is set up) the skiff goes upwind fine, even with me at
the
> > helm. <g> I'm guessing that your sail may be poorly cut, and/or you're
not
> > getting the sprit peaked up enough. Dynamite Payson mentioned in one
of
> his
> > books that the spritsail he had made by an awning maker for his
Thomaston
> > Galley wasn't worth beans, and it made him think the sprit rig was
> > worthless, then he got a new sail made by a sailmaker and the change
for
> > the better was amazing. Reading between the lines, it sounds like
> > spritsails like a little shape to them, unlike awnings. Another
thought is
> > that you may be sheeting the sail in too hard, my boat likes to have
the
> > sheet let out a bit so the sail isn't too flat.
> >
> > What exactly are the troubles you're having with your sprit rig?
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:49:20 -0600, Don Hodges wrote:
> > > Well, here's my latest report on skiff-sailing with leeboards; I got
out
> for
> > > a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a
recut
> of my
> > > sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
> > > pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from
my
> > > put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to
go to
> > > weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a
> beating
> > > rig!...
> >
> > --
> > John <jkohnen@...>
> >http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
> > A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
> > <William Burroughs>
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> > --http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=bolger&m=1
> >
> >
> >
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
> > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
> --
>
> Simplicity Boats (mirror sites - if one doesn't work...)
>http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/
>http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/
> Here's my latest boat:
>http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
> Quasi esoteric musical instruments
> unicornstrings.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
Don,
You might check out Jim Michilaks newsletters. He has a good article
on adding shape to sails with 2 darts. I used his technique on the lug
sail on my Featherwind and it worked well. Don't have the link handy but
his index is on my LINKS page in the signature.
Good Luck,
David
Donald Hodges wrote:
of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also loose-footed
and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
always a poor course of action).
Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist from
foot to peak on a beat.
I would appreciate any input on shaping cuts which might improve it. It
will probably remain polytarp - this is a disposable boat, although it
really does row nicely and gives me an "impulse" boat to use at the
slightest provocation.
Don Hodges
You might check out Jim Michilaks newsletters. He has a good article
on adding shape to sails with 2 darts. I used his technique on the lug
sail on my Featherwind and it worked well. Don't have the link handy but
his index is on my LINKS page in the signature.
Good Luck,
David
Donald Hodges wrote:
>You are probably right about the cut of my spritsail - I just whacked it out
> John,
of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also loose-footed
and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
always a poor course of action).
Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist from
foot to peak on a beat.
I would appreciate any input on shaping cuts which might improve it. It
will probably remain polytarp - this is a disposable boat, although it
really does row nicely and gives me an "impulse" boat to use at the
slightest provocation.
Don Hodges
----- Original Message -----
From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 2:06 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
> Don-
>
> The sprit rig will got to windward fine. I've got one on my Footloose
> sailing skiff, and while it does have some minor annoying traits (because
> of the way mine is set up) the skiff goes upwind fine, even with me at the
> helm. <g> I'm guessing that your sail may be poorly cut, and/or you're not
> getting the sprit peaked up enough. Dynamite Payson mentioned in one of
his
> books that the spritsail he had made by an awning maker for his Thomaston
> Galley wasn't worth beans, and it made him think the sprit rig was
> worthless, then he got a new sail made by a sailmaker and the change for
> the better was amazing. Reading between the lines, it sounds like
> spritsails like a little shape to them, unlike awnings. Another thought is
> that you may be sheeting the sail in too hard, my boat likes to have the
> sheet let out a bit so the sail isn't too flat.
>
> What exactly are the troubles you're having with your sprit rig?
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:49:20 -0600, Don Hodges wrote:
> > Well, here's my latest report on skiff-sailing with leeboards; I got out
for
> > a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a recut
of my
> > sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
> > pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from my
> > put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to go to
> > weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a
beating
> > rig!...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
>http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
> A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
> <William Burroughs>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> --http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=bolger&m=1
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
> www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
--
Simplicity Boats (mirror sites - if one doesn't work...)
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/
Here's my latest boat:
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
Quasi esoteric musical instruments
unicornstrings.com
John,
You are probably right about the cut of my spritsail - I just whacked it out
of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also loose-footed
and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
always a poor course of action).
Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist from
foot to peak on a beat.
I would appreciate any input on shaping cuts which might improve it. It
will probably remain polytarp - this is a disposable boat, although it
really does row nicely and gives me an "impulse" boat to use at the
slightest provocation.
Don Hodges
You are probably right about the cut of my spritsail - I just whacked it out
of polytarp and doublesided tape. My next try will have a more vertical
angle at the luff edge from the mast to the sprit. It is also loose-footed
and I'll try a boom next time. I hoped to avoid the extra spar (hope is
always a poor course of action).
Actually, the shape doesn't look bad, except for the goshawful twist from
foot to peak on a beat.
I would appreciate any input on shaping cuts which might improve it. It
will probably remain polytarp - this is a disposable boat, although it
really does row nicely and gives me an "impulse" boat to use at the
slightest provocation.
Don Hodges
----- Original Message -----
From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 2:06 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
> Don-
>
> The sprit rig will got to windward fine. I've got one on my Footloose
> sailing skiff, and while it does have some minor annoying traits (because
> of the way mine is set up) the skiff goes upwind fine, even with me at the
> helm. <g> I'm guessing that your sail may be poorly cut, and/or you're not
> getting the sprit peaked up enough. Dynamite Payson mentioned in one of
his
> books that the spritsail he had made by an awning maker for his Thomaston
> Galley wasn't worth beans, and it made him think the sprit rig was
> worthless, then he got a new sail made by a sailmaker and the change for
> the better was amazing. Reading between the lines, it sounds like
> spritsails like a little shape to them, unlike awnings. Another thought is
> that you may be sheeting the sail in too hard, my boat likes to have the
> sheet let out a bit so the sail isn't too flat.
>
> What exactly are the troubles you're having with your sprit rig?
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:49:20 -0600, Don Hodges wrote:
> > Well, here's my latest report on skiff-sailing with leeboards; I got out
for
> > a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a recut
of my
> > sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
> > pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from my
> > put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to go to
> > weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a
beating
> > rig!...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
>http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
> A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
> <William Burroughs>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> --http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=bolger&m=1
>
>
>
Don-
The sprit rig will got to windward fine. I've got one on my Footloose
sailing skiff, and while it does have some minor annoying traits (because
of the way mine is set up) the skiff goes upwind fine, even with me at the
helm. <g> I'm guessing that your sail may be poorly cut, and/or you're not
getting the sprit peaked up enough. Dynamite Payson mentioned in one of his
books that the spritsail he had made by an awning maker for his Thomaston
Galley wasn't worth beans, and it made him think the sprit rig was
worthless, then he got a new sail made by a sailmaker and the change for
the better was amazing. Reading between the lines, it sounds like
spritsails like a little shape to them, unlike awnings. Another thought is
that you may be sheeting the sail in too hard, my boat likes to have the
sheet let out a bit so the sail isn't too flat.
What exactly are the troubles you're having with your sprit rig?
The sprit rig will got to windward fine. I've got one on my Footloose
sailing skiff, and while it does have some minor annoying traits (because
of the way mine is set up) the skiff goes upwind fine, even with me at the
helm. <g> I'm guessing that your sail may be poorly cut, and/or you're not
getting the sprit peaked up enough. Dynamite Payson mentioned in one of his
books that the spritsail he had made by an awning maker for his Thomaston
Galley wasn't worth beans, and it made him think the sprit rig was
worthless, then he got a new sail made by a sailmaker and the change for
the better was amazing. Reading between the lines, it sounds like
spritsails like a little shape to them, unlike awnings. Another thought is
that you may be sheeting the sail in too hard, my boat likes to have the
sheet let out a bit so the sail isn't too flat.
What exactly are the troubles you're having with your sprit rig?
On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:49:20 -0600, Don Hodges wrote:
> Well, here's my latest report on skiff-sailing with leeboards; I got out for
> a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a recut of my
> sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
> pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from my
> put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to go to
> weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a beating
> rig!...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
<William Burroughs>
On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Donald Hodges wrote:
outside of the gunwhales, as pictured below. The leeboard, attached by
lanyard to the centerline of the cockpit sole, will also be held in place
by such a cleat. Please note that the view is from the top, and is
parallel to the waterline.
___ ___
| | | |
G | | | |
U | | | |
N | | | |
W | | | |
H | | | |
A | | | |
L | | | |
E | | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |----| |
|--------|
One can get quite fancy with such a cleat, for example, one can put a
couple of excresences (this is the Bolger list) on the leeboard itself, so
that the leeboard is held in proper place. This defeats the
"self-rescuing" nature of the leeboard, making kick-up difficult. Or, one
can build the cleat with an appropriate amount of "flare", so that it is
parallel to the hull, or perpindicular to the water (when not heeled),
etc.
One can make it from oak, or sacrifically from pine or fir, or a nice
bronze one would be a remarkable addition to a boat.
Me? I built mine as designed by Bolger.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I stand by my misgivings about a leeboard retained by hydrodynamicExcuse the bad ascii art, below, but a cleat can be attached to the
> forces only - I have all I can do steering and trimming this rig
> without paying attention to the board more than once per tack.
outside of the gunwhales, as pictured below. The leeboard, attached by
lanyard to the centerline of the cockpit sole, will also be held in place
by such a cleat. Please note that the view is from the top, and is
parallel to the waterline.
___ ___
| | | |
G | | | |
U | | | |
N | | | |
W | | | |
H | | | |
A | | | |
L | | | |
E | | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |----| |
|--------|
One can get quite fancy with such a cleat, for example, one can put a
couple of excresences (this is the Bolger list) on the leeboard itself, so
that the leeboard is held in proper place. This defeats the
"self-rescuing" nature of the leeboard, making kick-up difficult. Or, one
can build the cleat with an appropriate amount of "flare", so that it is
parallel to the hull, or perpindicular to the water (when not heeled),
etc.
One can make it from oak, or sacrifically from pine or fir, or a nice
bronze one would be a remarkable addition to a boat.
Me? I built mine as designed by Bolger.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Well, here's my latest report on skiff-sailing with leeboards; I got out for
a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a recut of my
sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from my
put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to go to
weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a beating
rig! That said, it is also no penalty to carry the rig just in case the
wind is favorable for a part of the passage. Next iteration will be a
crabclaw/lateen to see if beating goes any better. On the plus side,
glorious 72 degree weather and a spectaclular sunset... I'm in the process
of inheriting a first-generation digital camera from my daughter; if it
works out, I'll put up some pictures "soon".
This 12-footer weighs about 65 lb and rowing it is just a matter of sweeping
a sheet-and-a-half of rockered plywood along the surface - it carries beyond
its length, which is all you can ask of a skiff.
I stand by my misgivings about a leeboard retained by hydrodynamic forces
only - I have all I can do steering and trimming this rig without paying
attention to the board more than once per tack.
On the construction front, I have cut out and laminated the stem and
breasthook for the 20 footer, and hung the three frames on the strongback.
Now it's on to aligning the stem, setting the keel and transom, and scarfing
up some chine logs and wales.
More as progress dictates...
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
a couple of hours yesterday trying out new board geometry and a recut of my
sprit-tarpsail. First, Mr. Bolger is right - rowboats are much more
pleasant to row than to sail. At sundown and still a half-mile from my
put-in, I struck the rig and rowed in - a pleasure after trying to go to
weather with the )(&(**^&%&^ sprit rig for two hours. This is not a beating
rig! That said, it is also no penalty to carry the rig just in case the
wind is favorable for a part of the passage. Next iteration will be a
crabclaw/lateen to see if beating goes any better. On the plus side,
glorious 72 degree weather and a spectaclular sunset... I'm in the process
of inheriting a first-generation digital camera from my daughter; if it
works out, I'll put up some pictures "soon".
This 12-footer weighs about 65 lb and rowing it is just a matter of sweeping
a sheet-and-a-half of rockered plywood along the surface - it carries beyond
its length, which is all you can ask of a skiff.
I stand by my misgivings about a leeboard retained by hydrodynamic forces
only - I have all I can do steering and trimming this rig without paying
attention to the board more than once per tack.
On the construction front, I have cut out and laminated the stem and
breasthook for the 20 footer, and hung the three frames on the strongback.
Now it's on to aligning the stem, setting the keel and transom, and scarfing
up some chine logs and wales.
More as progress dictates...
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
The Knight book at the Arthur Ransome pages is Sailing, not Small Boat
Sailing:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/knight.htm
The Cruise of The Alerte is there too:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/al.htm
And Falcon on the Baltic:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/falcon.htm
David N. Goodchild sells reprints of Knight's Small Boat Sailing (I've got
one around here somewhere...), and some other fun old timers:
http://www.anyboat.com/books/books.htm
Sailing:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/knight.htm
The Cruise of The Alerte is there too:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/al.htm
And Falcon on the Baltic:
http://arthur-ransome.org/AR/literary/falcon.htm
David N. Goodchild sells reprints of Knight's Small Boat Sailing (I've got
one around here somewhere...), and some other fun old timers:
http://www.anyboat.com/books/books.htm
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:54:11 -0800, Craig O'Donnell wrote:
> ...
> Knight has quite a long description of sailing about in Florida Bay in
> a boat where he added such boards.
> ...
> In fact if you can find the Arthur Ransome pages (www.ransome.org ?) an
> old (1885?) edition of SMALL BOAT SAILING is online there as an ebook
> and might have this tale and drawing. My info comes from the edition of
> about 1902.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for;
as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. <H. L. Mencken>
Bill: I have a little experience with the type of leeboard you describe,
on a 17 foot sailing canoe designed by Ian Outred. I guess it works ok but
sailing qualities especially into the wind are poor anyway. The board
takes up a fair bit of room in the cockpit, and you do have to fling it
over. You are right that it is simple. There needs to be a cleat on the
side of the boat for the board to ride on. In a bigger boat like a skiff I
bet it would be a little more work to change the board, but it would be
worht a try like you say, for the simplicity. Richard Stover
----------
on a 17 foot sailing canoe designed by Ian Outred. I guess it works ok but
sailing qualities especially into the wind are poor anyway. The board
takes up a fair bit of room in the cockpit, and you do have to fling it
over. You are right that it is simple. There needs to be a cleat on the
side of the boat for the board to ride on. In a bigger boat like a skiff I
bet it would be a little more work to change the board, but it would be
worht a try like you say, for the simplicity. Richard Stover
----------
> From: Bill Samson <w_b_samson@...>Teal
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Quick'n dirty leeboards
> Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 5:47 AM
>
> I'd be interested in views on the kind of quick and dirty leeboard setup
> used by canoe sailors, and how well it might work on, say, a June Bug,
> or similar sized hull.more
>
> The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard, with nothing
> than a hole drilled near the top. A line is fastened to the leeboard (atthe
> the hole) and the other end is fastened to a simple cleat or becket on
> centreline of the boat; probably at floor level. The length of the lineis
> adjusted so that the board hangs snug against the side of the hull whenthe
> line is taut. The pressure of the water keeps the leeboard in position,permanent
> when hanging on the lee side of the hull. Going about requires that the
> board be lifted across and dropped on the new leeside.
>
> Obviously this'd be infeasible for big heavy leeboards, but is it a good
> system for little ones? As I see it, the advantages are that no
> fittings are needed - especially thru-hull fittings - and the leeboardcan
> be untied and left ashore when not needed. Another nice feature is thatif
> you accidentally ground, the leeboard will tilt up without causingdamage.
> The only disadvantage I can see is that the line might get in the way of
> something, though I'm not sure what.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Bill
> ______________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
<<
Craig,
I'll be the first to admit I'm a lazy sailor (anybody who has finally
won
the sail-racing prize he/she coveted probably is), and I admit I haven't
actually tried the single-lanyard-attached-leeboard. But, as a
practical
matter, I just can't see this working in a small boat in light air
without
constant attention to the helm - seems a lot easier to just have two
boards
and through-bolt (1/4-20 galvanized oughta do it) or clamp them on.
a boat where he added such boards.
I can tell you from experience that the side pressure on a leeboard is
a lot more than you think it is if there's *any* sort of steady wind.
If you define "light" as "winsome zephyrs which make a Chesapeake
summer seem a gale" then I suspect you might be right. <grin> I tried
this sort of system several times just for the heck of it, and it did
work. If I wanted to use it all the time I'd be prepared to fiddle a
lot to get everything in the right position.
He (Knight) takes a second lanyard back to a cleat so he can hold the
leading edge at a desired angle. This may help some with your objection.
In fact if you can find the Arthur Ransome pages (www.ransome.org ?) an
old (1885?) edition of SMALL BOAT SAILING is online there as an ebook
and might have this tale and drawing. My info comes from the edition of
about 1902.
Also there as an ebook is the interesting "Cruise of the Alerte" which
is a journalistic sort of narrative (Knight was a journalist) about
searching for buried treasure.
Ransome was apparently an influence on old Arthur R.
Craig,
I'll be the first to admit I'm a lazy sailor (anybody who has finally
won
the sail-racing prize he/she coveted probably is), and I admit I haven't
actually tried the single-lanyard-attached-leeboard. But, as a
practical
matter, I just can't see this working in a small boat in light air
without
constant attention to the helm - seems a lot easier to just have two
boards
and through-bolt (1/4-20 galvanized oughta do it) or clamp them on.
>>Knight has quite a long description of sailing about in Florida Bay in
a boat where he added such boards.
I can tell you from experience that the side pressure on a leeboard is
a lot more than you think it is if there's *any* sort of steady wind.
If you define "light" as "winsome zephyrs which make a Chesapeake
summer seem a gale" then I suspect you might be right. <grin> I tried
this sort of system several times just for the heck of it, and it did
work. If I wanted to use it all the time I'd be prepared to fiddle a
lot to get everything in the right position.
He (Knight) takes a second lanyard back to a cleat so he can hold the
leading edge at a desired angle. This may help some with your objection.
In fact if you can find the Arthur Ransome pages (www.ransome.org ?) an
old (1885?) edition of SMALL BOAT SAILING is online there as an ebook
and might have this tale and drawing. My info comes from the edition of
about 1902.
Also there as an ebook is the interesting "Cruise of the Alerte" which
is a journalistic sort of narrative (Knight was a journalist) about
searching for buried treasure.
Ransome was apparently an influence on old Arthur R.
Craig,
I'll be the first to admit I'm a lazy sailor (anybody who has finally won
the sail-racing prize he/she coveted probably is), and I admit I haven't
actually tried the single-lanyard-attached-leeboard. But, as a practical
matter, I just can't see this working in a small boat in light air without
constant attention to the helm - seems a lot easier to just have two boards
and through-bolt (1/4-20 galvanized oughta do it) or clamp them on.
Maybe this is really a decision-support system; when the damn board floats
away, you haul the brailing line and start rowing...<g>
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
I'll be the first to admit I'm a lazy sailor (anybody who has finally won
the sail-racing prize he/she coveted probably is), and I admit I haven't
actually tried the single-lanyard-attached-leeboard. But, as a practical
matter, I just can't see this working in a small boat in light air without
constant attention to the helm - seems a lot easier to just have two boards
and through-bolt (1/4-20 galvanized oughta do it) or clamp them on.
Maybe this is really a decision-support system; when the damn board floats
away, you haul the brailing line and start rowing...<g>
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: C. O'Donnell <dadadata@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 5:25 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
> EF Knight, one of the early exponents of small-boat sailing (having
> written many editions of a book called "Small Boat Sailing", the last
> of which included an appendix on how to sail a small boat with only one
> arm, which he lost as a war correspondent) recommended this system.
>
> He had a pin or chock on the gunwale as a pivot-point against which the
> rope would stop. The rope was always located in front of this pin.
>
> The only objection I can really think of to his sort of approach is
> that of handling the board in tacks. I've tried it, and it works, but
> the "Michalak" bolt thru style might be more to the lazy sailor's
> liking.
>
> Knight wasn't the only guy to explain this approach either, as W
> Baden-Powell mentions it in connection with 1880-style canoes, and at
> least one writer (Ben Fuller?) says it came from the days of dugout
> sailing canoes in Connecticut.
EF Knight, one of the early exponents of small-boat sailing (having
written many editions of a book called "Small Boat Sailing", the last
of which included an appendix on how to sail a small boat with only one
arm, which he lost as a war correspondent) recommended this system.
He had a pin or chock on the gunwale as a pivot-point against which the
rope would stop. The rope was always located in front of this pin.
The only objection I can really think of to his sort of approach is
that of handling the board in tacks. I've tried it, and it works, but
the "Michalak" bolt thru style might be more to the lazy sailor's
liking.
Knight wasn't the only guy to explain this approach either, as W
Baden-Powell mentions it in connection with 1880-style canoes, and at
least one writer (Ben Fuller?) says it came from the days of dugout
sailing canoes in Connecticut.
<<
The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard, with nothing
more
than a hole drilled near the top. A line is fastened to the leeboard
(at
the hole) and the other end is fastened to a simple cleat or becket on
the
centreline of the boat; probably at floor level. The length of the line
is
adjusted so that the board hangs snug against the side of the hull when
the
line is taut. The pressure of the water keeps the leeboard in position,
when hanging on the lee side of the hull. Going about requires that the
board be lifted across and dropped on the new leeside.
Obviously this'd be infeasible for big heavy leeboards, but is it a
good
system for little ones? As I see it, the advantages are that no
permanent
fittings are needed - especially thru-hull fittings - and the leeboard
can
be untied and left ashore when not needed. Another nice feature is that
if
you accidentally ground, the leeboard will tilt up without causing
damage.
The only disadvantage I can see is that the line might get in the way
of
something, though I'm not sure what.
written many editions of a book called "Small Boat Sailing", the last
of which included an appendix on how to sail a small boat with only one
arm, which he lost as a war correspondent) recommended this system.
He had a pin or chock on the gunwale as a pivot-point against which the
rope would stop. The rope was always located in front of this pin.
The only objection I can really think of to his sort of approach is
that of handling the board in tacks. I've tried it, and it works, but
the "Michalak" bolt thru style might be more to the lazy sailor's
liking.
Knight wasn't the only guy to explain this approach either, as W
Baden-Powell mentions it in connection with 1880-style canoes, and at
least one writer (Ben Fuller?) says it came from the days of dugout
sailing canoes in Connecticut.
<<
The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard, with nothing
more
than a hole drilled near the top. A line is fastened to the leeboard
(at
the hole) and the other end is fastened to a simple cleat or becket on
the
centreline of the boat; probably at floor level. The length of the line
is
adjusted so that the board hangs snug against the side of the hull when
the
line is taut. The pressure of the water keeps the leeboard in position,
when hanging on the lee side of the hull. Going about requires that the
board be lifted across and dropped on the new leeside.
Obviously this'd be infeasible for big heavy leeboards, but is it a
good
system for little ones? As I see it, the advantages are that no
permanent
fittings are needed - especially thru-hull fittings - and the leeboard
can
be untied and left ashore when not needed. Another nice feature is that
if
you accidentally ground, the leeboard will tilt up without causing
damage.
The only disadvantage I can see is that the line might get in the way
of
something, though I'm not sure what.
>>
John, I'm in the final stages of tuning just such a skiff. A 12 footer with
a 55 sq ft spritsail and leeboards. The oarlocks proved to be too far aft
for proper balance in mounting the leeboards, so I'm moving the boards
forward a bit. The oar steering is no better than OK, I'll probably go on
to a "proper" rudder/tiller. Have you been sailing my skiff when I'm not
looking? Your description sounds uncannily like it.
Back to the original question, I have considered the single leeboard on a
lanyard but I think it would add one more chore to a fairly heavy workload
in tacking and steering such a small boat. My helm skills work better if I
have a solid leeboard in place before going to the new tack.
On leeboards in general, I have been most impressed with them while sailing
on a friend's Sea Pearl 21 - this a fair-sized longboat camp-cruiser which
we regularly sail across points and on flats in 6-8 inches of water.
Sometimes the seagrass is exposed in the wake as we drag the first trough
behind the boat. This boat also points well and is remarkably fast for a
21-footer, being rather narrow.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
a 55 sq ft spritsail and leeboards. The oarlocks proved to be too far aft
for proper balance in mounting the leeboards, so I'm moving the boards
forward a bit. The oar steering is no better than OK, I'll probably go on
to a "proper" rudder/tiller. Have you been sailing my skiff when I'm not
looking? Your description sounds uncannily like it.
Back to the original question, I have considered the single leeboard on a
lanyard but I think it would add one more chore to a fairly heavy workload
in tacking and steering such a small boat. My helm skills work better if I
have a solid leeboard in place before going to the new tack.
On leeboards in general, I have been most impressed with them while sailing
on a friend's Sea Pearl 21 - this a fair-sized longboat camp-cruiser which
we regularly sail across points and on flats in 6-8 inches of water.
Sometimes the seagrass is exposed in the wake as we drag the first trough
behind the boat. This boat also points well and is remarkably fast for a
21-footer, being rather narrow.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Quick'n dirty leeboards
> I've been thinking such a setup would be quite nice for a rowboat with an
> auxiliary sail for use at those times when one is tired or lazy. There'd
be
> no centerboard slot to cause drag when rowing, no permanent hardware to
> clutter up the looks of your sleek craft and the whole rig, leeboard and
> smallish sprit rig, wouldn't take up much room when not in use. A purist
> would use an oar for steering (or maybe just shifting weight?), but the
> truly lazy would add a rudder to the kit, trading the extra clutter for
> more comfortable control. If singlehanding you wouldn't want to tack very
> often, what with having to shift the leeboard, but in a rowboat you'd just
> drop the sail and row dead to windward in any situation where short
tacking
> was needed.
>
>
> If the boat was designed right, the leeboard could be hung from a rowlock.
> One of the river yawls in Chapelle's American Small Sailing Craft has a
> centerboard that has it's center of resistance just about lined up with
the
> forward rowlock position, that's what started me thinking. I don't recall
> if the side of that skiff was pointing in the right direction at that
> point, if not that would complicate things.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:47:32 GMT, Bill Samson wrote:
> > I'd be interested in views on the kind of quick and dirty leeboard setup
> > used by canoe sailors, and how well it might work on, say, a June Bug,
Teal
> > or similar sized hull.
> > ...
> > The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard...
> > (Held in place only with a length of line)
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
>http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
> People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan Pearsall
Smith>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FreeLotto.com is the only internet site to offer three free chances
> a day to win $1,000,000.00. We've already had two $1,000,000.00
> jackpot winners and thousands of other cash prizes. You could be
> a $1,000,000.00 winner tonight!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/445/5/_/3457/_/947834992/
>
> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
I've been thinking such a setup would be quite nice for a rowboat with an
auxiliary sail for use at those times when one is tired or lazy. There'd be
no centerboard slot to cause drag when rowing, no permanent hardware to
clutter up the looks of your sleek craft and the whole rig, leeboard and
smallish sprit rig, wouldn't take up much room when not in use. A purist
would use an oar for steering (or maybe just shifting weight?), but the
truly lazy would add a rudder to the kit, trading the extra clutter for
more comfortable control. If singlehanding you wouldn't want to tack very
often, what with having to shift the leeboard, but in a rowboat you'd just
drop the sail and row dead to windward in any situation where short tacking
was needed.
If the boat was designed right, the leeboard could be hung from a rowlock.
One of the river yawls in Chapelle's American Small Sailing Craft has a
centerboard that has it's center of resistance just about lined up with the
forward rowlock position, that's what started me thinking. I don't recall
if the side of that skiff was pointing in the right direction at that
point, if not that would complicate things.
auxiliary sail for use at those times when one is tired or lazy. There'd be
no centerboard slot to cause drag when rowing, no permanent hardware to
clutter up the looks of your sleek craft and the whole rig, leeboard and
smallish sprit rig, wouldn't take up much room when not in use. A purist
would use an oar for steering (or maybe just shifting weight?), but the
truly lazy would add a rudder to the kit, trading the extra clutter for
more comfortable control. If singlehanding you wouldn't want to tack very
often, what with having to shift the leeboard, but in a rowboat you'd just
drop the sail and row dead to windward in any situation where short tacking
was needed.
If the boat was designed right, the leeboard could be hung from a rowlock.
One of the river yawls in Chapelle's American Small Sailing Craft has a
centerboard that has it's center of resistance just about lined up with the
forward rowlock position, that's what started me thinking. I don't recall
if the side of that skiff was pointing in the right direction at that
point, if not that would complicate things.
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:47:32 GMT, Bill Samson wrote:
> I'd be interested in views on the kind of quick and dirty leeboard setup
> used by canoe sailors, and how well it might work on, say, a June Bug, Teal
> or similar sized hull.
> ...
> The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard...
> (Held in place only with a length of line)
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/nautical.html
People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan Pearsall Smith>
I'd be interested in views on the kind of quick and dirty leeboard setup
used by canoe sailors, and how well it might work on, say, a June Bug, Teal
or similar sized hull.
The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard, with nothing more
than a hole drilled near the top. A line is fastened to the leeboard (at
the hole) and the other end is fastened to a simple cleat or becket on the
centreline of the boat; probably at floor level. The length of the line is
adjusted so that the board hangs snug against the side of the hull when the
line is taut. The pressure of the water keeps the leeboard in position,
when hanging on the lee side of the hull. Going about requires that the
board be lifted across and dropped on the new leeside.
Obviously this'd be infeasible for big heavy leeboards, but is it a good
system for little ones? As I see it, the advantages are that no permanent
fittings are needed - especially thru-hull fittings - and the leeboard can
be untied and left ashore when not needed. Another nice feature is that if
you accidentally ground, the leeboard will tilt up without causing damage.
The only disadvantage I can see is that the line might get in the way of
something, though I'm not sure what.
Thoughts?
Bill
______________________________________________________
used by canoe sailors, and how well it might work on, say, a June Bug, Teal
or similar sized hull.
The setup I'm talking about has a suitably sized leeboard, with nothing more
than a hole drilled near the top. A line is fastened to the leeboard (at
the hole) and the other end is fastened to a simple cleat or becket on the
centreline of the boat; probably at floor level. The length of the line is
adjusted so that the board hangs snug against the side of the hull when the
line is taut. The pressure of the water keeps the leeboard in position,
when hanging on the lee side of the hull. Going about requires that the
board be lifted across and dropped on the new leeside.
Obviously this'd be infeasible for big heavy leeboards, but is it a good
system for little ones? As I see it, the advantages are that no permanent
fittings are needed - especially thru-hull fittings - and the leeboard can
be untied and left ashore when not needed. Another nice feature is that if
you accidentally ground, the leeboard will tilt up without causing damage.
The only disadvantage I can see is that the line might get in the way of
something, though I'm not sure what.
Thoughts?
Bill
______________________________________________________