Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Legacy (was "Unauthorised plans")
I think Thomas Firth Jones is already involved with Dobler's plans. jonesboats.com, I think. Clyde
pvanderwaart wrote:
pvanderwaart wrote:
> > Joe Dobler is another designer to add to this unhappy list. I once
> had a
> > catalog of his plans, which included a number of interesting
> shallow draft
> > cruisers, among other designs, but with his demise, the plans
> ceased to be
> > available.
>
> Jacques Mertens at www.bateau.com recently remarked on his forum that
> he is involved with a project involving Dobler's plans. He would be a
> first point of contact.
>
> PHV
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
There is a Dobler dayboat at
http://www.jonesboats.com/dobler16.html
Sakari Aaltonen
http://www.jonesboats.com/dobler16.html
Sakari Aaltonen
> > Joe Dobler is another designer to add to this unhappy list. I once
> had a
> > catalog of his plans, which included a number of interesting
> shallow draft
> > cruisers, among other designs, but with his demise, the plans
> ceased to be
> > available.
>
> Jacques Mertens at www.bateau.com recently remarked on his forum that
> he is involved with a project involving Dobler's plans. He would be a
> first point of contact.
>
> PHV
> Joe Dobler is another designer to add to this unhappy list. I oncehad a
> catalog of his plans, which included a number of interestingshallow draft
> cruisers, among other designs, but with his demise, the plansceased to be
> available.Jacques Mertens at www.bateau.com recently remarked on his forum that
he is involved with a project involving Dobler's plans. He would be a
first point of contact.
PHV
In a message dated 1/22/02 6:27:08 PM Central Standard Time,
stephen@...writes:
catalog of his plans, which included a number of interesting shallow draft
cruisers, among other designs, but with his demise, the plans ceased to be
available.
I've purchased some of limited selection of Weston Farmer's plans that his
son makes available, less out of any intention of building any of them, but
out of concern that when Weston the younger passes away, they, too will cease
to be available. Thomas Firth Jones somewhere once observed that some boat
plans are cheap enough to be bought to be read, just like books. The plans
that Weston Farmer offers are in that category. What he has on offer can only
represent a tiny fraction of his father's output. One can only hope that he's
kept his father's work intact and has some plan to keep the collection
intact.
Perhaps boat designers are less egotistical than, say, politicians and
novelists, who regularly bequeath volumes of documents on assorted
institutions, probably obtaining useful tax write-offs in exchange. Then
again, perhaps most boat designers are too impecunious to have elaborate
estate plans or enough taxable income to make tax write-offs much of an
incentive.
I recently read a couple of books about book-and-manuscript collecting by
Nicholas Basbanes. I'm more of a "discarder" than a collector, myself, but if
someone collected boat plans with the assiduity that some of the collectors
profiled by Basbanes collected books, it might be the start of a valuable refe
rence collection, and, in the fullness of time, a splendid public service as
well.
Ciao for Niao
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stephen@...writes:
> Here's another, more delicate question: what happens whenJoe Dobler is another designer to add to this unhappy list. I once had a
> PCB dies? How accessible will his work be then?
>
>
catalog of his plans, which included a number of interesting shallow draft
cruisers, among other designs, but with his demise, the plans ceased to be
available.
I've purchased some of limited selection of Weston Farmer's plans that his
son makes available, less out of any intention of building any of them, but
out of concern that when Weston the younger passes away, they, too will cease
to be available. Thomas Firth Jones somewhere once observed that some boat
plans are cheap enough to be bought to be read, just like books. The plans
that Weston Farmer offers are in that category. What he has on offer can only
represent a tiny fraction of his father's output. One can only hope that he's
kept his father's work intact and has some plan to keep the collection
intact.
Perhaps boat designers are less egotistical than, say, politicians and
novelists, who regularly bequeath volumes of documents on assorted
institutions, probably obtaining useful tax write-offs in exchange. Then
again, perhaps most boat designers are too impecunious to have elaborate
estate plans or enough taxable income to make tax write-offs much of an
incentive.
I recently read a couple of books about book-and-manuscript collecting by
Nicholas Basbanes. I'm more of a "discarder" than a collector, myself, but if
someone collected boat plans with the assiduity that some of the collectors
profiled by Basbanes collected books, it might be the start of a valuable refe
rence collection, and, in the fullness of time, a splendid public service as
well.
Ciao for Niao
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First--I believe that Susanne Altenberger, who is much younger than PCB,
will keep his designs available for many years. Of course, there is the
question of post-SA availability, but that's a long time in the future.
will keep his designs available for many years. Of course, there is the
question of post-SA availability, but that's a long time in the future.
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, s_paskey wrote:
> I'm curious because the record for other designers is not
> encouraging. "Whisp" and other designs by Steve Redmond are
> not available because Redmond has apparently fallen from the
> face of the earth and left no forwarding address.
There is still a dealer, last I heard, who carries Redmond's plans, in
Florida somewhere. Rec.boats.building is the place to inquire.
> Likewise for Howard Chappelle's own designs, which are available only
> from the Smithsonian. (I work five blocks from the museum complex,
> which has numerous stores selling tons of junk, but the only way to
> get a catalog of available plans is through the mail!)
Well, frankly, they are readily available, cheap, and excellent quality.
They are $5 a sheet, and the quality, to my surprise, is better than any
other boat plan I've ever purchased or seen. The Smithsonian is the best
boat plan purveyor in the USA, IMHO. And I've seen 'em from Glen-L,
Hankinson, Bolger, Payson, CSD/CSB, etc. $5/sheet is a great price.
Of course, they are also essectially available from Chappelle's books,
too, such as American Small Sailing Craft, Yacht Planning and Design, etc.
But the $5/sheet from Smithsonian gives you excellent quality to work
from.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
--- In bolger@y..., "s_paskey" <stephen@p...> wrote:
plans for quite a while. ;)
Bruce
> Here's another, more delicate question: what happens whenOh, I'm sure "Suzanne Altenberger and Friends" will be selling the
> PCB dies? How accessible will his work be then?
>
plans for quite a while. ;)
Bruce
What boats would I like to talk about? Mostly the hundreds of
PCB designs I haven't yet never seen, heard about, or thought
about, which I can't do because, well, there we go again.
Here's another, more delicate question: what happens when
PCB dies? How accessible will his work be then?
I'm curious because the record for other designers is not
encouraging. "Whisp" and other designs by Steve Redmond are
not available because Redmond has apparently fallen from the
face of the earth and left no forwarding address. WoodenBoat
used to sell plans for John Watkinson's "Drascombe Peterboat,"
a very nice sheet ply yawl about the size of Chebacco. Plans are
no longer available, apparently because Watkinson's heirs sold
exclusive rights to his work to a British boat manufacturer.
Designs by Pete Culler are now in the hands of Mystic Seaport,
which -- in my experience -- is a pain in the butt to deal with.
Likewise for Howard Chappelle's own designs, which are
available only from the Smithsonian. (I work five blocks from the
museum complex, which has numerous stores selling tons of
junk, but the only way to get a catalog of available plans is
through the mail!) And so it goes.
Steve
PCB designs I haven't yet never seen, heard about, or thought
about, which I can't do because, well, there we go again.
Here's another, more delicate question: what happens when
PCB dies? How accessible will his work be then?
I'm curious because the record for other designers is not
encouraging. "Whisp" and other designs by Steve Redmond are
not available because Redmond has apparently fallen from the
face of the earth and left no forwarding address. WoodenBoat
used to sell plans for John Watkinson's "Drascombe Peterboat,"
a very nice sheet ply yawl about the size of Chebacco. Plans are
no longer available, apparently because Watkinson's heirs sold
exclusive rights to his work to a British boat manufacturer.
Designs by Pete Culler are now in the hands of Mystic Seaport,
which -- in my experience -- is a pain in the butt to deal with.
Likewise for Howard Chappelle's own designs, which are
available only from the Smithsonian. (I work five blocks from the
museum complex, which has numerous stores selling tons of
junk, but the only way to get a catalog of available plans is
through the mail!) And so it goes.
Steve
--- In bolger@y..., "bgbeck55" <bgbeck55@y...> wrote:
> Which boats do you want to talk about? Fishcat? Work Skiff?
> Hawkeye?
> Bruce
I do agree with Bruce. I "made peace" with PCB&F, so I don't want to
express any opinion here. Just two facts: the plans that triggered it
all were Chebacco, which are sold by Dynamite Payson with PB's
authorization. Also, a very disturbing factor for them was the link
in my web page to CSB. Anybody linking there?
express any opinion here. Just two facts: the plans that triggered it
all were Chebacco, which are sold by Dynamite Payson with PB's
authorization. Also, a very disturbing factor for them was the link
in my web page to CSB. Anybody linking there?
--- In bolger@y..., "bgbeck55" <bgbeck55@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "Bill Samson" <Bill.Samson@t...> wrote:
> > Guys, guys, guys,
> >
> > <Yawn> I'm getting more than a little bored with this endlessly
> repeated topic of unauthorised plans, "why doesn't he get a
website"
> and so on. It's been rehearsed at least twice before in the
archives
> if the more verbose of you would care to take a look. It even led
to
> Phil and Susanne leaving the list - Our loss (IMO). If you've
> anything original to say, then fine. Otherwise? . . .
> >
> > Let's talk boats!
> >
> > Bill
>
> Yes Bill, it has been brought up before. As I recall, one of
those
> times was by PCB&F themselves. As I recall, when they made their
> appearance on the list, it was decided by one and all NOT to
discuss
> designs with them; just let them comment as they saw fit. They made
a
> few comments on the sales issue and then disappeared.
> That anything said here would influence them is highly
improbable.
> "All questions are clear when some one else has to decide them"
> B. Franklin
> Which boats do you want to talk about? Fishcat? Work Skiff?
> Hawkeye?
> Bruce
--- In bolger@y..., "Bill Samson" <Bill.Samson@t...> wrote:
and so on. It's been rehearsed at least twice before in the archives
if the more verbose of you would care to take a look. It even led to
Phil and Susanne leaving the list - Our loss (IMO). If you've
anything original to say, then fine. Otherwise? . . .
times was by PCB&F themselves. As I recall, when they made their
appearance on the list, it was decided by one and all NOT to discuss
designs with them; just let them comment as they saw fit. They made a
few comments on the sales issue and then disappeared.
That anything said here would influence them is highly improbable.
"All questions are clear when some one else has to decide them"
B. Franklin
Which boats do you want to talk about? Fishcat? Work Skiff?
Hawkeye?
Bruce
> Guys, guys, guys,repeated topic of unauthorised plans, "why doesn't he get a website"
>
> <Yawn> I'm getting more than a little bored with this endlessly
and so on. It's been rehearsed at least twice before in the archives
if the more verbose of you would care to take a look. It even led to
Phil and Susanne leaving the list - Our loss (IMO). If you've
anything original to say, then fine. Otherwise? . . .
>Yes Bill, it has been brought up before. As I recall, one of those
> Let's talk boats!
>
> Bill
times was by PCB&F themselves. As I recall, when they made their
appearance on the list, it was decided by one and all NOT to discuss
designs with them; just let them comment as they saw fit. They made a
few comments on the sales issue and then disappeared.
That anything said here would influence them is highly improbable.
"All questions are clear when some one else has to decide them"
B. Franklin
Which boats do you want to talk about? Fishcat? Work Skiff?
Hawkeye?
Bruce
Guys, guys, guys,
<Yawn> I'm getting more than a little bored with this endlessly repeated topic of unauthorised plans, "why doesn't he get a website" and so on. It's been rehearsed at least twice before in the archives if the more verbose of you would care to take a look. It even led to Phil and Susanne leaving the list - Our loss (IMO). If you've anything original to say, then fine. Otherwise? . . .
Let's talk boats!
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<Yawn> I'm getting more than a little bored with this endlessly repeated topic of unauthorised plans, "why doesn't he get a website" and so on. It's been rehearsed at least twice before in the archives if the more verbose of you would care to take a look. It even led to Phil and Susanne leaving the list - Our loss (IMO). If you've anything original to say, then fine. Otherwise? . . .
Let's talk boats!
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]