Re: [bolger] Re: Small Power Sharpie

You might take a look at selway-fisher.com for slipper launches. Clyde

Mark Albanese wrote:

> Lake Launch was first mentioned last year by Ken Abrahams,
> but the file was removed.
>
> Length contributes to stability, too. The drake tails do add
> some style.
>
> The boat could also be easily stretched to 18'
> and look quite lean. Try it in a graphics program.
>
> Mark
>
> sneakeasy2000 wrote:
> snip
> > The six to one ratio of the Sneakeasy, typical sharpie
> > ratio, it
> > stable but the 3.75 to 1 of the lake launch seems like it
> > would be
> > more stable yet!
>
> > I have developed a soft spot in my heart for the drake
> > tails, too bad
> > to cut them off!
> >
> > Steve Bosquette
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yes. The same effect at distance as something out of Peter
Freebody's. I considered one stretched to 18' for my
electric camper.

Mark

"gmatkin@..." wrote:
snip

>- it'd look good on the river Thames in England.
>
> Gav
>
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> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
> all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.

Lake Launch was first mentioned last year by Ken Abrahams,
but the file was removed.

Length contributes to stability, too. The drake tails do add
some style.

The boat could also be easily stretched to 18'
and look quite lean. Try it in a graphics program.

Mark

sneakeasy2000 wrote:
snip

> The six to one ratio of the Sneakeasy, typical sharpie
> ratio, it
> stable but the 3.75 to 1 of the lake launch seems like it
> would be
> more stable yet!

> I have developed a soft spot in my heart for the drake
> tails, too bad
> to cut them off!
>
> Steve Bosquette
>

Thanks Mark
It's fun to see yet another bolger design I haven't seen before. It
looks just like my Sneakeasy in profile. I wonder if it would be
more or less stable given the width is the same but 10 feet shorter.
The six to one ratio of the Sneakeasy, typical sharpie ratio, it
stable but the 3.75 to 1 of the lake launch seems like it would be
more stable yet! Those in the know maybe can confirm for us novices!
I have developed a soft spot in my heart for the drake tails, too bad
to cut them off!

Steve Bosquette

--- In bolger@y..., Mark Albanese <marka@o...> wrote:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Power%
20Sharpies/LakeLaunch.gif
>
> About ten feet shorter than a Sneakeasy,
> this lovely little speedboat can be fit out many ways; with
> tophamper, or open; windshield added or off; very low power, etc.
> If it had to be shorter, cut the beavertail.
>
> The smallest Bolger sharpie powerboat
> squares the circle between skiff and dory:
> Fine lined, open 'Sea Hawk', is found in Small Boats. While
> 15' 6" x 4'2,
> capacity is written to be, "Closer to the general
> run of 12-footers." 7.5 - 20 horsepower. #247, he's
> minimizing both breadth and flare.
>
> Not much of a pic, but at Cedar Key
> http://members.tripod.com/boatbuilding/23_20a.jpg
>
> Mark
>
>
> howardstephenson wrote:
>
> > It's interesting to follow the evolution from Viper to
> > Firebrand
> > (both in 30-odd boats) to Sneakeasy. The evolutionary tree
> > then
> > branches, with Microtrawler and Wyoming. Firebrand,
> > although designed
> > to be powered by steam, has almost exactly the same hull
> > size and
> > shape as Sneakeasy.
> >
> > Howard
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "boatbuilder0101" <boatbuilder01@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a
> > Sneakeasy to one
> > > half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is
> > probably too
> > > narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything
> > like this?
> > > Larry
> >

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Power%20Sharpies/LakeLaunch.gif

About ten feet shorter than a Sneakeasy,
this lovely little speedboat can be fit out many ways; with
tophamper, or open; windshield added or off; very low power, etc.
If it had to be shorter, cut the beavertail.

The smallest Bolger sharpie powerboat
squares the circle between skiff and dory:
Fine lined, open 'Sea Hawk', is found in Small Boats. While
15' 6" x 4'2,
capacity is written to be, "Closer to the general
run of 12-footers." 7.5 - 20 horsepower. #247, he's
minimizing both breadth and flare.

Not much of a pic, but at Cedar Key
http://members.tripod.com/boatbuilding/23_20a.jpg

Mark

howardstephenson wrote:

> It's interesting to follow the evolution from Viper to
> Firebrand
> (both in 30-odd boats) to Sneakeasy. The evolutionary tree
> then
> branches, with Microtrawler and Wyoming. Firebrand,
> although designed
> to be powered by steam, has almost exactly the same hull
> size and
> shape as Sneakeasy.
>
> Howard
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "boatbuilder0101" <boatbuilder01@h...>
> wrote:
> > How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a
> Sneakeasy to one
> > half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is
> probably too
> > narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything
> like this?
> > Larry
>

The obvious question is whether this boat will be a
displacement hull or otherwise. Boats like June Bug
amd so forth would be best in the mini Tennesee role.
Obviously the modifications are not severe whatever
the parentage.

--- "Clyde S. Wisner" <clydewis@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
A Junebug though 32" wide.. Clyde 
 

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I have posted a picture in the files section here of what Sucher considers a
sharpie to be, sharpie egret.jpg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke S" <biggie@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Small Power Sharpie

> According to Harry V Sucher in his book "Simplified Boat building : The
> flat-bottom boat " a sharpie is similar to a skiff in form except that
the
> name is applied to hulls of larger size, i.e. 20 feet in length and over.
>
> Luke S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clyde S. Wisner" <clydewis@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Small Power Sharpie

According to Harry V Sucher in his book "Simplified Boat building : The
flat-bottom boat " a sharpie is similar to a skiff in form except that the
name is applied to hulls of larger size, i.e. 20 feet in length and over.

Luke S

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde S. Wisner" <clydewis@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Small Power Sharpie

> I guess power sharpies didn't exist until there was power, and once there
were small engines and later
> auto engines, most sharpies became power sharpies.
>
> "Clyde S. Wisner" wrote:
>
> > Go back to Howard Chapelle, in Amer. Sm Sailing Craft, from whom Parker
draws very heavily. After a
> > brief look(by me), Chapelle says the origin of the term is unknown but
he proposes a term to
> > distinguish between scow and sharp bow, flat bottom boats or bateau, in
use as early as 1857 in US.
> > Clyde
> >
> > Sakari Aaltonen wrote:
> >
> > > I read Reuel B. Parker's entire THE SHARPIE BOOK looking hard for
> > > at least one sentence explaining what a sharpie is. I *must*
> > > have missed it.
> > >
> > > Sakari Aaltonen
> > >
> > > > I have a hunch, that the box cutwater on Micro Trawler, etc. acts as
> > > > a narrow "sharpie" when the boat is on plane. The truth is, I don't
> > > > know the *formal* definition of "sharpie", other than "long and
> > > > narrow".
> > > >
> > > > The other Bruce. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

I guess power sharpies didn't exist until there was power, and once there were small engines and later
auto engines, most sharpies became power sharpies.

"Clyde S. Wisner" wrote:

> Go back to Howard Chapelle, in Amer. Sm Sailing Craft, from whom Parker draws very heavily. After a
> brief look(by me), Chapelle says the origin of the term is unknown but he proposes a term to
> distinguish between scow and sharp bow, flat bottom boats or bateau, in use as early as 1857 in US.
> Clyde
>
> Sakari Aaltonen wrote:
>
> > I read Reuel B. Parker's entire THE SHARPIE BOOK looking hard for
> > at least one sentence explaining what a sharpie is. I *must*
> > have missed it.
> >
> > Sakari Aaltonen
> >
> > > I have a hunch, that the box cutwater on Micro Trawler, etc. acts as
> > > a narrow "sharpie" when the boat is on plane. The truth is, I don't
> > > know the *formal* definition of "sharpie", other than "long and
> > > narrow".
> > >
> > > The other Bruce. :)
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Go back to Howard Chapelle, in Amer. Sm Sailing Craft, from whom Parker draws very heavily. After a
brief look(by me), Chapelle says the origin of the term is unknown but he proposes a term to
distinguish between scow and sharp bow, flat bottom boats or bateau, in use as early as 1857 in US.
Clyde

Sakari Aaltonen wrote:

> I read Reuel B. Parker's entire THE SHARPIE BOOK looking hard for
> at least one sentence explaining what a sharpie is. I *must*
> have missed it.
>
> Sakari Aaltonen
>
> > I have a hunch, that the box cutwater on Micro Trawler, etc. acts as
> > a narrow "sharpie" when the boat is on plane. The truth is, I don't
> > know the *formal* definition of "sharpie", other than "long and
> > narrow".
> >
> > The other Bruce. :)
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

So many designers and builders added to the Sharpie that it would be
difficult to say just what a sharpie description would say.

Maybe a generic description would be:

"An American original design of a shallow draft work boat, generally
having a flat bottom with low freeboard that is inexpensive to build,
can carry a large payload, while being elegant enought to allow a
Sunday outing with the family or successfully raced by a limber crew
with more luck than sense."

:>)

Jeff

There's another way of looking at this. Microtrawler shows how to
design a short narrow sharpie. It has 14'6" very narrow hull with
sponsons added for stability and space.

My guess is that the design (or its predecessor) was the result of
PCB seeking a solution to the problem of stability that is implied in
Larry's post.

It's interesting to follow the evolution from Viper to Firebrand
(both in 30-odd boats) to Sneakeasy. The evolutionary tree then
branches, with Microtrawler and Wyoming. Firebrand, although designed
to be powered by steam, has almost exactly the same hull size and
shape as Sneakeasy.

Howard

--- In bolger@y..., "boatbuilder0101" <boatbuilder01@h...> wrote:
> How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
> half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
> Larry

> I read Reuel B. Parker's entire THE SHARPIE BOOK looking hard for
> at least one sentence explaining what a sharpie is. I *must*
> have missed it.

It is interesting how sometimes an author doesn't start at the
begining, isn't it.

As far as I know, the word sharpie was first applied to the New Haven
Sharpies, which were oyster tonging boats. The oyster fishermen would
take them out on the oyster banks, anchor them by sticking poles in
the water at bow and stern, and pull up oysters with tongs. The tongs
looked somewhat like hinged pairs of garden rakes, but bigger, and
with handles long enough to fish in water up to about 20' deep. The
shellfish was dumped in the boat. The boat sizes went by the number
of bushels they would hold: a 20 bushel boat, a 40 bushel boat, etc.

In shape, the boats were a lot like Parker's. They are flat bottomed,
with slight flair, vertical stem & centerboard. Many had a rounded
stern, with a long, shallow rudder. The beam was approximately 1/6
the length. The rig was usually a cat ketch with bermuda (triangular)
sails and sprit booms. Smaller boats had only one sail.

The characteristics that differentiate sharpies from similar boats
are that they are primarily sailboats (I always think that 'skiff'
means a rowboat), the flat bottom, narrow beam, shallow draft with no
keel, centerboard (leeboards are modern variants), the characteristic
sprit ketch rig. And they are open with no cabin.

As with the names of all the traditional types, all sorts of
variations have borrowed the name including the non-pariel sharpie
(with not quite flat bottom), the Monroe sharpies such as Egret
(which always looked a little more like a dory to me) and Presto
(which is a round bottom boat and only a sharpie by curtesy), and
various later Bolger boats such as the AS-29 (where the word sharpie
refers more to the way they were derived than to what they actually
are.)

Peter

I read Reuel B. Parker's entire THE SHARPIE BOOK looking hard for
at least one sentence explaining what a sharpie is. I *must*
have missed it.

Sakari Aaltonen

> I have a hunch, that the box cutwater on Micro Trawler, etc. acts as
> a narrow "sharpie" when the boat is on plane. The truth is, I don't
> know the *formal* definition of "sharpie", other than "long and
> narrow".
>
> The other Bruce. :)

--- In bolger@y..., "owlnmole" <mlong@c...> wrote:

> How about Eeek! reworked with for the lightest outboard you can
> find? Fun, but not very safe.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "boatbuilder0101" <boatbuilder01@h...> wrote:
> > How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to

one

> > half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> > narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like

this?
How about EEK! with a small outrigger/ama. It would be much more
stable and easier to get into. Don Peters

How about Eeek! reworked with for the lightest outboard you can
find? Fun, but not very safe.

--- In bolger@y..., "boatbuilder0101" <boatbuilder01@h...> wrote:
> How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
> half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
> Larry

--- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:

> > How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to

I have a hunch, that the box cutwater on Micro Trawler, etc. acts as
a narrow "sharpie" when the boat is on plane. The truth is, I don't
know the *formal* definition of "sharpie", other than "long and
narrow".

The other Bruce. :)

A Junebug though 32" wide.. Clyde

boatbuilder0101 wrote:

> How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
> half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
> Larry
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Have a look at Eeek! in 30 boats, it is 12 foot, 2'
wide, and is a double ender sailboat, but could
readily be given a transom and an electric motor for
the result you require. A battery would add a lot fo
stability.

--- boatbuilder0101 <boatbuilder01@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a
Sneakeasy to one 
half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long.
This is probably too 
narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed
anything like this? 
Larry 
 
</tt>

 



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In a message dated 1/23/02 11:03:40 AM Central Standard Time,
boatbuilder01@...writes:

> How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
> half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
> Larry
>
>
>

I don't know whether Bolger designed anything like a 1/2 scale
"Sneakeasy", but I doubt that it would be a practical boat.

24" beam is narrower than any canoe I've ever paddled, including my
15' 6" solo stripper, which is too unstable to pole. (Admittedly it would be
stabler if it were flat bottomed and flat sterned, like "Sneakeasy" - but,
still, I think you are talking about a pretty tender boat with limited
capacity here.) "Sneakeasy" is supposed to run well at speed with low power
because of its low displacement/length ratio - putting one over-nourished
adult male (e.g. myself) + motor + gas + refreshments in a 13' X 2' boat
might push the D/L ratio out of "Sneakeasy" territory and into an entirely
different operating regime.

A boat somewhat similar in objective ( i.e. efficient low-powered
power craft), although much different in design and construction, is Thomas
Firth Jones' "Puxe". "Puxe" is derived from the Chesapeake "dead-rise"
tradition, so may have less initial stability than a "Sneakeasy", but at 22'
X 4'10", Jones says: "She is as small as a 5-to-1 ( i.e. beam/length ratio)
boat can be and still be stable enough to use carelessly." This is a rather
subjective judgement, to be sure, and begs the question of how small a 5-to-1
("Puxe") or 6-to-1 ("Sneakeasy") type can be and still be stable enough to
use "CAREFULLY". I don't think a 13'X2' "Sneakeasy" clone would make the
grade, but my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

As to speed, a "Sneakeasy" would have a speed of 7.7 kts. @ S/L = 1.5;
the 13'X2' "clone" would have a speed of 5.4 kts. at the same S/L. At some
point, to reach higher speeds, the boats would have to get on "plane". This
requires more power, hence more weight and the smaller boat would perform (I
think) disproportionally poorer.) (I don't much fancy the idea of planing a
flat-bottomed boat with on 24" of beam very much, either.) (I'm not sure that
a Bolger "Diablo" scaled down to 13' would make much sense either, but it
would seem a better bet than trying to scale down "Sneakeasy"."

IMHO, no experience, no warranties, no expertise:

Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The nearest I know is Eeek, from Chapter 1 of 30-odd Boats. As with
Eeek, you would most likely have to lie down when using it.

Canoes are about 24" wide, but they gain stability from the paddles.

Howard

> How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
> half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
> narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
> Larry

How small can a power sharpie be? If you build a Sneakeasy to one
half size it would be 24"wide by 13ft long. This is probably too
narrow, but it should be fast! Has PFB designed anything like this?
Larry