[bolger] Re: 9.9HP 4-stroke OBs plus news
I think the noise of the primitive engine (read primitive sound cover
and
primitive mufflers) would drive one batty. Just the difference in sound
suppresion between my pre-1971 Mercury 4 H.P. and a modern two-stroke is
amazing. Wonder if Chinese mariners have regular audiograms? hmmmmm?
Phil Lea
Russellville, AR.
"matthew long" wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
and
primitive mufflers) would drive one batty. Just the difference in sound
suppresion between my pre-1971 Mercury 4 H.P. and a modern two-stroke is
amazing. Wonder if Chinese mariners have regular audiograms? hmmmmm?
Phil Lea
Russellville, AR.
"matthew long" wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
> Here's an alternative that I am sure others have considered and
> rejected, but I'd be curious to hear any comments:
>
> In Asia you can often see small, primitive-looking outboards pushing
> small barges and other pretty substantial craft. These are air-cooled
> and often diesel I think.
> What do you all think?
> Matthew
"lm2" <lm-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1739
Best, Pippo
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1739
> We researched the Diesel outboards for Loose Moose and they are veryare
> impressive until you realize that they are huge! The smallest outboard
> available is bigger and heavier than a 90 HP 2 stroke so unless you
> building a very big boat four stroke is the way to go..The Ruggerini Marine diesel OB's weigh 81 and 97 kg.
Best, Pippo
We researched the Diesel outboards for Loose Moose and they are very
impressive until you realize that they are huge! The smallest outboard
available is bigger and heavier than a 90 HP 2 stroke so unless you are
building a very big boat four stroke is the way to go..
Bob & Sheila
Paradise Connections Yacht Charters
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
impressive until you realize that they are huge! The smallest outboard
available is bigger and heavier than a 90 HP 2 stroke so unless you are
building a very big boat four stroke is the way to go..
Bob & Sheila
Paradise Connections Yacht Charters
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:29 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: 9.9HP 4-stroke OBs plus news
> Matthew
>
> "matthew long" <owlnmol-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
>
> > The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:
> >http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
> > and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
> > (Pippo, help?)
>
> They're
>
> RUGGERINI MARINE
> Z.I. ASI Incoronata
> CP 310 - 71100 FOGGIA (FG), Italy
> Tel: 0881 680100
> Fax: 0881 680187
>
> They make 2 models of diesel outboard: 16 and 23 HP respectively. My
> search showed that there are several more made by Mercruiser (165-309
> HP), Volvo Penta (59 - 260 HP) and Yanmar (11-25 HP)
>
> Best,
>
> Pippo
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> a day to win $1,000,000.00. We've already had two $1,000,000.00
> jackpot winners and thousands of other cash prizes. You could be
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>http://click.egroups.com/1/445/5/_/3457/_/947849384/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
>
Matthew
"matthew long" <owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
RUGGERINI MARINE
Z.I. ASI Incoronata
CP 310 - 71100 FOGGIA (FG), Italy
Tel: 0881 680100
Fax: 0881 680187
They make 2 models of diesel outboard: 16 and 23 HP respectively. My
search showed that there are several more made by Mercruiser (165-309
HP), Volvo Penta (59 - 260 HP) and Yanmar (11-25 HP)
Best,
Pippo
"matthew long" <owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
> The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:They're
>http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
> and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
> (Pippo, help?)
RUGGERINI MARINE
Z.I. ASI Incoronata
CP 310 - 71100 FOGGIA (FG), Italy
Tel: 0881 680100
Fax: 0881 680187
They make 2 models of diesel outboard: 16 and 23 HP respectively. My
search showed that there are several more made by Mercruiser (165-309
HP), Volvo Penta (59 - 260 HP) and Yanmar (11-25 HP)
Best,
Pippo
Matthew:
There's a place in Louisiana that sells what I think you're
refering to. It's called Go-Devil Engineering(www.go-devil.com).
I've seen these types of "outboard" in a couple of movies filmed
in Thailand.(I think one was "Man with the Golden Gun" and the
other was one of the "Rambo" movies)
matthew long" <owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
There's a place in Louisiana that sells what I think you're
refering to. It's called Go-Devil Engineering(www.go-devil.com).
I've seen these types of "outboard" in a couple of movies filmed
in Thailand.(I think one was "Man with the Golden Gun" and the
other was one of the "Rambo" movies)
matthew long" <owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1728
> Here's an alternative that I am sure others have considered and
> rejected, but I'd be curious to hear any comments:
>
> In Asia you can often see small, primitive-looking outboards pushing
> small barges and other pretty substantial craft. These are air-cooled
> and often diesel I think.
>
> The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:
>http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
> and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
> (Pippo, help?)
>
> The Chinese one is described as propelling a 2 to 3 ton vessel at 5
> knots or so, with a 12" guarded prop and for only $1000! The downside
> is that it is tiller-steered and has only F and N gears, turning 360
> degrees like a dinghy motor for reverse.
>
> I have an image in my mind of a small, pilothouse motorsailer. The
> motor would be mounted in a well just behind the house, the tiller
> passing through a slot in the back wall of the house, with a hinged
> panel to allow using reverse.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> Matthew
>
>
> "phil bolger and friends" <pc-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1720
>
I think the Italian company is Rugerinni (sp?) except that their outboards
are modern, traditional O/B designs.
are modern, traditional O/B designs.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Long [mailto:owlnmole@...]
> Sent: January 13, 2000 7:13 PM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: 9.9HP 4-stroke OBs plus news
>
>
> Here's an alternative that I am sure others have considered and
> rejected, but I'd be curious to hear any comments:
>
> In Asia you can often see small, primitive-looking outboards pushing
> small barges and other pretty substantial craft. These are air-cooled
> and often diesel I think.
>
> The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:
>http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
> and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
> (Pippo, help?)
>
> The Chinese one is described as propelling a 2 to 3 ton vessel at 5
> knots or so, with a 12" guarded prop and for only $1000! The downside
> is that it is tiller-steered and has only F and N gears, turning 360
> degrees like a dinghy motor for reverse.
>
> I have an image in my mind of a small, pilothouse motorsailer. The
> motor would be mounted in a well just behind the house, the tiller
> passing through a slot in the back wall of the house, with a hinged
> panel to allow using reverse.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> Matthew
>
>
> "phil bolger and friends" <pc-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1720
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FreeLotto.com is the only internet site to offer three free
> chances a day to win $1,000,000.00. We've already had two
> $1,000,000.00 jackpot winners and thousands of other cash
> prizes. You could be a $1,000,000.00 winner tonight!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/445/5/_/3457/_/947808765/
>
> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
Here's an alternative that I am sure others have considered and
rejected, but I'd be curious to hear any comments:
In Asia you can often see small, primitive-looking outboards pushing
small barges and other pretty substantial craft. These are air-cooled
and often diesel I think.
The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:
http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
(Pippo, help?)
The Chinese one is described as propelling a 2 to 3 ton vessel at 5
knots or so, with a 12" guarded prop and for only $1000! The downside
is that it is tiller-steered and has only F and N gears, turning 360
degrees like a dinghy motor for reverse.
I have an image in my mind of a small, pilothouse motorsailer. The
motor would be mounted in a well just behind the house, the tiller
passing through a slot in the back wall of the house, with a hinged
panel to allow using reverse.
What do you all think?
Matthew
"phil bolger and friends" <pc-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1720
rejected, but I'd be curious to hear any comments:
In Asia you can often see small, primitive-looking outboards pushing
small barges and other pretty substantial craft. These are air-cooled
and often diesel I think.
The company that distributes the China Diesels has one:
http://www.chinadiesel.com/mrn/diesel_outboard.htm
and I believe there is an Italian company that makes them, too.
(Pippo, help?)
The Chinese one is described as propelling a 2 to 3 ton vessel at 5
knots or so, with a 12" guarded prop and for only $1000! The downside
is that it is tiller-steered and has only F and N gears, turning 360
degrees like a dinghy motor for reverse.
I have an image in my mind of a small, pilothouse motorsailer. The
motor would be mounted in a well just behind the house, the tiller
passing through a slot in the back wall of the house, with a hinged
panel to allow using reverse.
What do you all think?
Matthew
"phil bolger and friends" <pc-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1720
Dept. Oomph from 10 horses:
We've always looked at the actual prop-diameter/pitch numbers and found
the YAMAHA 9.9 HT most attractive with - if memory serves (?) - 11
3/4"diameter by 9 or so...memory!! The point is that you have
authority both accelerating and - more important - 'braking' since that
engine's propeller hub is designed to 'cough' exhaust forward while in
reverse without getting into the blades for pretty but useless fuzz;
upon closer examination that particular prop-hub is more convoluted and
looks more draggy than any around, but at displacement speed and
'clean' prop-blades in reverse you still seem to have the best
'traction' available on any 9.9. The cost of $2600-2800 hereabouts for
a fully optioned YAMAHA 9.9 high-thrust is up there. But the
advantages every time you are in a tight spot with too many empty
beer-bottle rolling around the boat ahead of you, the 'traction' either
way from only 10HP helps calm the nerves.
Looking for 'large-prop' outboards is interesting. We should study up
on it... But there are only a few useful engines available with the
requisite lower-gearing lower unit - usually 2.3:1 or so - plus the
one's we've missed:
- 9.9 YAMAHA four-stroke high-thrust
- 25 MARINER four-stroke with 12" prop (our 20-year old 25 EVINRUDE has
9.5"..)
- 50 HP YAMAHA T-50 four-stroke with props from 14"x11" for grunt-duty
to 13 1/2 x 19+..
and that's about it. If only we studied!
We wished that one could order - for serious mark-up - a 16" prop HONDA
75-90 family with the 115-130 twins offering 18"+ - all for serious
displacement-speed propulsion, easy to tilt out of the water, no
through-hulls etc. The problem is, as demonstrated with the YAMAHA
T-50, that the whole drive leg and motor-mount has to be capable of
thousands of pounds of thrust as you go up the HP chain. YAMAHA
publishes a static thrust for the T-50 with 14x11 prop at 952 lbs. And
unless they a) get the opportunity, b) are willing to invest in
different tooling from the powerhead on down (not really nuclear
science), and then C) able tp pick spectacular PR examples, it's not
going to happen. Remember the YANMAR 27/36HP diesel-outboard stunt
with that long-range trimaran? Great show! The only problem here was
the pricing afterwards which completely negated any effect of those
ads; available only in 'weeny' prop style we were quoted 10-13K figures
'retail'. If as dedicated displacement-speed work-horses they had
swung a 3 or 4:1 gear with matching props that still would have been a
bit steep, but one would have thought long-term fuel-cost along with
avoiding convential shafting for inboard diesel power. And since no
sail-drive unit ever steers or almost no I/O-drive ever lift clear of
the water, you're happy to look at mostly YAMAHA for four-stroke
large-prop outboards. No, we have no sweet-heart deal with them...
we're too irrelevant in their universe, and we would not want to try
either "as virtuous as we are..."
Both #636 CHAMPLAIN and #639 WILLIAM D. JOCHEMS run with those 9.9HP
YAMAHAs and seem to never suggest being underprivileged with just a
small outboard versus the ubiquitous "inboard-diesels make the proper
cruiser" mantra. Time-Between-Overhauls (TBO) of the little
four-strokes may not be in the diesel class, but saves all around to
begin with, and if done by a regular engine-rebuilding machine-shop of
your trust should be quite affordable. And how many hours do you run
it anyway. As so many inboards most outboards seem to die from salt
and neglect rather than worn piston rings or main bearings. Phil once
succeeded in shove a connecting rod through the crank-case of a 50HP
two-stroke during a high-speed exercise on a 'hibernating' engine.
Re cost of rebuilds in a competitive environment: Our '71 Chevy
Big-block V-8 (now 6.8Liters/412CID or so) cost around $1600 to
completely rebuild after 25 years of who-cares treatment and uncounted
oil-pressure lights flashing. Even with a moderate camshaft she'll
still make 325+HP and should do so for a long time again. No not in a
TENNESSEE, not for commuting - consumption!! - to work - we're already
here -, but in a mid-70s 'beast' the 9-seater weight of which takes
much of the glamour off those horses... But she can tow.
Dept of News:
- 34' VOLUNTEER is about to be built in Vancouver BC.(see B.W.O.M.)
with modern leeboards, twin rudders, T-50 outboard power, curved-gaff
Chinese-Gaff Cat-Yawl tabernacled rig, and very unboxy strip-built and
cold-molded hull lines. We hear that she should get 'wet' this
summer... Having the design commissioned ages ago Phil Truitt is now
writing first checks.
We've always looked at the actual prop-diameter/pitch numbers and found
the YAMAHA 9.9 HT most attractive with - if memory serves (?) - 11
3/4"diameter by 9 or so...memory!! The point is that you have
authority both accelerating and - more important - 'braking' since that
engine's propeller hub is designed to 'cough' exhaust forward while in
reverse without getting into the blades for pretty but useless fuzz;
upon closer examination that particular prop-hub is more convoluted and
looks more draggy than any around, but at displacement speed and
'clean' prop-blades in reverse you still seem to have the best
'traction' available on any 9.9. The cost of $2600-2800 hereabouts for
a fully optioned YAMAHA 9.9 high-thrust is up there. But the
advantages every time you are in a tight spot with too many empty
beer-bottle rolling around the boat ahead of you, the 'traction' either
way from only 10HP helps calm the nerves.
Looking for 'large-prop' outboards is interesting. We should study up
on it... But there are only a few useful engines available with the
requisite lower-gearing lower unit - usually 2.3:1 or so - plus the
one's we've missed:
- 9.9 YAMAHA four-stroke high-thrust
- 25 MARINER four-stroke with 12" prop (our 20-year old 25 EVINRUDE has
9.5"..)
- 50 HP YAMAHA T-50 four-stroke with props from 14"x11" for grunt-duty
to 13 1/2 x 19+..
and that's about it. If only we studied!
We wished that one could order - for serious mark-up - a 16" prop HONDA
75-90 family with the 115-130 twins offering 18"+ - all for serious
displacement-speed propulsion, easy to tilt out of the water, no
through-hulls etc. The problem is, as demonstrated with the YAMAHA
T-50, that the whole drive leg and motor-mount has to be capable of
thousands of pounds of thrust as you go up the HP chain. YAMAHA
publishes a static thrust for the T-50 with 14x11 prop at 952 lbs. And
unless they a) get the opportunity, b) are willing to invest in
different tooling from the powerhead on down (not really nuclear
science), and then C) able tp pick spectacular PR examples, it's not
going to happen. Remember the YANMAR 27/36HP diesel-outboard stunt
with that long-range trimaran? Great show! The only problem here was
the pricing afterwards which completely negated any effect of those
ads; available only in 'weeny' prop style we were quoted 10-13K figures
'retail'. If as dedicated displacement-speed work-horses they had
swung a 3 or 4:1 gear with matching props that still would have been a
bit steep, but one would have thought long-term fuel-cost along with
avoiding convential shafting for inboard diesel power. And since no
sail-drive unit ever steers or almost no I/O-drive ever lift clear of
the water, you're happy to look at mostly YAMAHA for four-stroke
large-prop outboards. No, we have no sweet-heart deal with them...
we're too irrelevant in their universe, and we would not want to try
either "as virtuous as we are..."
Both #636 CHAMPLAIN and #639 WILLIAM D. JOCHEMS run with those 9.9HP
YAMAHAs and seem to never suggest being underprivileged with just a
small outboard versus the ubiquitous "inboard-diesels make the proper
cruiser" mantra. Time-Between-Overhauls (TBO) of the little
four-strokes may not be in the diesel class, but saves all around to
begin with, and if done by a regular engine-rebuilding machine-shop of
your trust should be quite affordable. And how many hours do you run
it anyway. As so many inboards most outboards seem to die from salt
and neglect rather than worn piston rings or main bearings. Phil once
succeeded in shove a connecting rod through the crank-case of a 50HP
two-stroke during a high-speed exercise on a 'hibernating' engine.
Re cost of rebuilds in a competitive environment: Our '71 Chevy
Big-block V-8 (now 6.8Liters/412CID or so) cost around $1600 to
completely rebuild after 25 years of who-cares treatment and uncounted
oil-pressure lights flashing. Even with a moderate camshaft she'll
still make 325+HP and should do so for a long time again. No not in a
TENNESSEE, not for commuting - consumption!! - to work - we're already
here -, but in a mid-70s 'beast' the 9-seater weight of which takes
much of the glamour off those horses... But she can tow.
Dept of News:
- 34' VOLUNTEER is about to be built in Vancouver BC.(see B.W.O.M.)
with modern leeboards, twin rudders, T-50 outboard power, curved-gaff
Chinese-Gaff Cat-Yawl tabernacled rig, and very unboxy strip-built and
cold-molded hull lines. We hear that she should get 'wet' this
summer... Having the design commissioned ages ago Phil Truitt is now
writing first checks.