Re: [bolger] Re: Bolgers Final Word On The Design Database.
Two years ago I purchased Tennessee plans from PB&F for $75.00.
In the same letter, he priced the Dakota and Wyoming at $300.00 each and the Illinois at $400.00.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the same letter, he priced the Dakota and Wyoming at $300.00 each and the Illinois at $400.00.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
he may not like it, he *is* a celebrity of sorts. We should not
pester him, but we should also not stop enjoying his designs. I.E.,
studying, dreaming, writing, talking, [and when divorce doesn't
impede], building & using them!
While I have great respect for the man; Phil Bolger does not have the
right to stop us from praising, criticizing and cataloging his
designs.
After all, many, if not most, of his designs were published publicly
in books and magazines by Mr. Bolger. He has placed them in the
public eye all by himself.
I think that the Bolger Group should create a Bolger FAQ.
Item one should be: Do not pester Mr. Bolger (let him design more
boats in peace!) Items two through seven hundred, could include a
database of reviews of his boat designs, kind of like a
bibliography. I see it as essentially a journalistic/scholarly
act, "fair use" so to speak. Though I hope he would appreciate and
support this; I do not believe that celebrities have the right to
quash the study, review and reporting of their work which they have
placed in the public's eye. I think that a Libertarian would
understand.
Bruce Hallman
> > And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find someLike the rest of you, I am a huge fan of Phil Bolger, and even though
he may not like it, he *is* a celebrity of sorts. We should not
pester him, but we should also not stop enjoying his designs. I.E.,
studying, dreaming, writing, talking, [and when divorce doesn't
impede], building & using them!
While I have great respect for the man; Phil Bolger does not have the
right to stop us from praising, criticizing and cataloging his
designs.
After all, many, if not most, of his designs were published publicly
in books and magazines by Mr. Bolger. He has placed them in the
public eye all by himself.
I think that the Bolger Group should create a Bolger FAQ.
Item one should be: Do not pester Mr. Bolger (let him design more
boats in peace!) Items two through seven hundred, could include a
database of reviews of his boat designs, kind of like a
bibliography. I see it as essentially a journalistic/scholarly
act, "fair use" so to speak. Though I hope he would appreciate and
support this; I do not believe that celebrities have the right to
quash the study, review and reporting of their work which they have
placed in the public's eye. I think that a Libertarian would
understand.
Bruce Hallman
> And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strangefor
> looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
> the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling
> their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,theWell, if nothing else good has come form this thread, the shear
> forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
> worms....
delight of reading the posts, especially Porkys, has been worth it. I
am in agreement that the majority of the replys want the list to
stand and to be added to. So, like a good politician, who says one
thing and does the opposite, I will not delete it. But....this Groups
Moderator still has that option.
I ask only two more things, one that we only include reference to
PB&F & Payson in the DB and TWO that this thread end, die, never to
be heard from again (unless porky wants to write some more ;-)and
that we talk about some boats again.
Rich
smiling once again because of porkys post
Eureka! Finally a fresh perspective on the silliness of it all!Let us
make lists,boats,idle chatter,share ideas,dreams,eat,drink and be
merry to our hearts content! All of it will,one day,seem very
trivial indeed..........
Thank you "porky" for the skull numbing relief!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
make lists,boats,idle chatter,share ideas,dreams,eat,drink and be
merry to our hearts content! All of it will,one day,seem very
trivial indeed..........
Thank you "porky" for the skull numbing relief!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
> looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
> the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling
for
> their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
> forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
> worms....
>
> ;o)
>
> porky
A modest proposal:
If you look at the implied meaning behind the various communications
from PB&F, you could say that they don't want *any* outside
discussion of their designs. They especially suspect forums that
encourage alterations to existing plans or inappropriate uses for
specific designs. As this particular list spends a large part of its
bandwidth doing just that, what is to be done? Perhaps the list
should simply be shut down, its members disband, and no further
mention of Phil Bolger or his boats made, either on the Internet or
elsewhere, except as sanctioned by the designer himself or his
designated spokesperson(s).
Of course, to really make certain denizens of Gloucester, MA, happy,
it would be advisable to also remove from the World Wide Web all
sites concerning the construction and operation of Bolger-designed
boats, plus all associated hyperlinks. Any reviews, photos or
comments in traditional media except those of PCB, SA, or their
lawyer should be extirpated. All archives and libraries should be
cleansed of offending references. Living memory should be
exterminated, perhaps with the use of Pavlovian conditioning.
Eventually, the whole Phil Bolger phenomena will be forgotten, along
with the designer himself, much to his own satisfaction. Foolish
dreamers asking questions and buying plans will no longer be able to
annoy him.
And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling for
their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
worms....
;o)
porky
If you look at the implied meaning behind the various communications
from PB&F, you could say that they don't want *any* outside
discussion of their designs. They especially suspect forums that
encourage alterations to existing plans or inappropriate uses for
specific designs. As this particular list spends a large part of its
bandwidth doing just that, what is to be done? Perhaps the list
should simply be shut down, its members disband, and no further
mention of Phil Bolger or his boats made, either on the Internet or
elsewhere, except as sanctioned by the designer himself or his
designated spokesperson(s).
Of course, to really make certain denizens of Gloucester, MA, happy,
it would be advisable to also remove from the World Wide Web all
sites concerning the construction and operation of Bolger-designed
boats, plus all associated hyperlinks. Any reviews, photos or
comments in traditional media except those of PCB, SA, or their
lawyer should be extirpated. All archives and libraries should be
cleansed of offending references. Living memory should be
exterminated, perhaps with the use of Pavlovian conditioning.
Eventually, the whole Phil Bolger phenomena will be forgotten, along
with the designer himself, much to his own satisfaction. Foolish
dreamers asking questions and buying plans will no longer be able to
annoy him.
And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling for
their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
worms....
;o)
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
> Okay Folks, Rich here...
>
> I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my position....
--- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
idea was to provide a counter-balance to CSB's unauthorized sales; to
provide the answer to the question of "How much does PCB&F charge for
those plans?." So far, only one of the nine designs sold by CSB has
ever been entered, "Fishcat". "Micro", "Micro Trawler", Long
Micro","Pirogue", "Brick","Big Dory","Martha
Jane","Oldshoe",or "Idaho" aren't there.
So go ahead Rich, delete it.
> Rich back...of
> 1)I will no longer add or modify or support the database. The
> Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this database, so I
> give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is after all
> the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
> 2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within a couple
> days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone wants thelist
> of designs that are currently there, you can export the list to youAs the one who suggested it, I say go ahead and dump it Rich. The
> hard drive. Get it now while you can.
>
> Rich...
> kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.
idea was to provide a counter-balance to CSB's unauthorized sales; to
provide the answer to the question of "How much does PCB&F charge for
those plans?." So far, only one of the nine designs sold by CSB has
ever been entered, "Fishcat". "Micro", "Micro Trawler", Long
Micro","Pirogue", "Brick","Big Dory","Martha
Jane","Oldshoe",or "Idaho" aren't there.
So go ahead Rich, delete it.
The message I picked out of the fax, was that while he would like a
database, he would also like to maintain full control of it himself.
Maybe if someone wanted to keep a private database and answer the price
enquiry's themselves, PCB wouldn't feel his time being impinged on.
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 2/2/02 12:18 PM, Mark Albanese atmarka@...wrote:
database, he would also like to maintain full control of it himself.
Maybe if someone wanted to keep a private database and answer the price
enquiry's themselves, PCB wouldn't feel his time being impinged on.
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 2/2/02 12:18 PM, Mark Albanese atmarka@...wrote:
> Rich, I read the reply differently, too.
> A comprehensive database / web site is obviously something
> he'd like to do himself.
>
> But I thought the original idea here was only to list the
> designs, what they cost and where to get them.
> That does not conflict with the spirit anything he said.
>
> I worked about a decade as a database designer before
> getting tired of spending all day in front of a computer. If
> you'd rather, I'll take on the table in Bolger2.
>
> Mark
>
> rmdeming wrote:
>>
>> Okay Folks, Rich here...
>>
>> I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my
>> position. I
>> begged forgiveness, but explained why someone suggested it
>> and why I
>> started it (the database). Here is Bolger's response (a
>> fax that
>> showed up this morning). Here is what the first fax said
>> verbatim;
>>
>> Dear Mr. Deming,
>> Sorry about the slow response. We have a complete and
>> fairly orderly
>> archive of five hundred plus designs in chronology and
>> detail (many
>> of the 1950's designs are lost).
>> The archive is not useful to anyone but us until we finish
>> preparing
>> it with comments and study plans, which we are doing as
>> fast as we
>> can, which is not very fast on account of interesting new
>> designs and
>> money to be made and the maddening distractions like the
>> SNAME
>> licenseing plot.
>> In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would
>> involve us in
>> endless requests for more information about this or that,
>> using time
>> we should be spending either doing the catalog right or
>> producing new
>> designs that need doing.
>> Thanks for your interest in helping us. Please be patient
>> for a
>> little longer.
>> Sincerely,
>> PB
>>
>> Rich back...There was a second page, a bit more personal,
>> that adds
>> that his books have designs for people who want more of
>> his work (75
>> Designs & 103 Rigs). Also, look to MAIB for his articles
>> or to Payson
>> for his plans and books.
>>
>> While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied. So
>> here is
>> what I do as the database owner:
>> 1)I will no longer add or modify or support the
>> database. The
>> Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this
>> database, so I
>> give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is
>> after all
>> the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
>> 2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within
>> a couple of
>> days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone
>> wants the list
>> of designs that are currently there, you can export the
>> list to you
>> hard drive. Get it now while you can.
>>
>> I apoligize to the group for having started this and then
>> bailing,
>> but I feel there is a moral responsibility here (with a
>> little fore-
>> thought on my part I would not have started it) and that
>> is to
>> respect Bolger's wishes (this group would not exist if it
>> weren't for
>> him) and wait for the official catalog of his designs.
>>
>> Rich...
>> kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
>> dead horses
>> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
>> punctuate
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
>> all you like
>> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
>> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>> of Service.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
I second this. It could only increase PB&Fs income and may well reduce
some of the inquiries they deal with. It would also, I'm sure, furnish
endless topics of discussion for this group.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Smith [mailto:pbs@...]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolgers Final Word On The Design Database.
I *think* that Peter is correct. I recommend that you contact PB&F and
say
something like, "I'd like to keep a centralized list (database) of your
designs that have been published. I plan to include the information in
the
current database. I promise not to pester you other than asking for your
design number, the status of the design (study only or completed design)
and your current price and the number of sheets of drawings and
instructions for the designs. If this is not OK with you please tell me
and
I'll stop immediately."
Providing a centralized location for all this information should be good
for PB&F and the PB Fans (us.) Perhaps once the Yahoo database system
gets
more sophistocated or perhaps now if it can do it, one of the fields in
the
database will be a URL to a file of remarks, war stories, building moans
and triumphs and sailing pictures of each particular design.
I hope that PB&F say "OK."
Phil Smith
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.1871318.3370210.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http:/www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=213858.1871318.3370210.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=763352/rand=950462307>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
some of the inquiries they deal with. It would also, I'm sure, furnish
endless topics of discussion for this group.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Smith [mailto:pbs@...]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolgers Final Word On The Design Database.
I *think* that Peter is correct. I recommend that you contact PB&F and
say
something like, "I'd like to keep a centralized list (database) of your
designs that have been published. I plan to include the information in
the
current database. I promise not to pester you other than asking for your
design number, the status of the design (study only or completed design)
and your current price and the number of sheets of drawings and
instructions for the designs. If this is not OK with you please tell me
and
I'll stop immediately."
Providing a centralized location for all this information should be good
for PB&F and the PB Fans (us.) Perhaps once the Yahoo database system
gets
more sophistocated or perhaps now if it can do it, one of the fields in
the
database will be a URL to a file of remarks, war stories, building moans
and triumphs and sailing pictures of each particular design.
I hope that PB&F say "OK."
Phil Smith
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.1871318.3370210.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http:/www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=213858.1871318.3370210.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705065791:HM/A=763352/rand=950462307>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I *think* that Peter is correct. I recommend that you contact PB&F and say
something like, "I'd like to keep a centralized list (database) of your
designs that have been published. I plan to include the information in the
current database. I promise not to pester you other than asking for your
design number, the status of the design (study only or completed design)
and your current price and the number of sheets of drawings and
instructions for the designs. If this is not OK with you please tell me and
I'll stop immediately."
Providing a centralized location for all this information should be good
for PB&F and the PB Fans (us.) Perhaps once the Yahoo database system gets
more sophistocated or perhaps now if it can do it, one of the fields in the
database will be a URL to a file of remarks, war stories, building moans
and triumphs and sailing pictures of each particular design.
I hope that PB&F say "OK."
Phil Smith
something like, "I'd like to keep a centralized list (database) of your
designs that have been published. I plan to include the information in the
current database. I promise not to pester you other than asking for your
design number, the status of the design (study only or completed design)
and your current price and the number of sheets of drawings and
instructions for the designs. If this is not OK with you please tell me and
I'll stop immediately."
Providing a centralized location for all this information should be good
for PB&F and the PB Fans (us.) Perhaps once the Yahoo database system gets
more sophistocated or perhaps now if it can do it, one of the fields in the
database will be a URL to a file of remarks, war stories, building moans
and triumphs and sailing pictures of each particular design.
I hope that PB&F say "OK."
Phil Smith
Rich, I read the reply differently, too.
A comprehensive database / web site is obviously something
he'd like to do himself.
But I thought the original idea here was only to list the
designs, what they cost and where to get them.
That does not conflict with the spirit anything he said.
I worked about a decade as a database designer before
getting tired of spending all day in front of a computer. If
you'd rather, I'll take on the table in Bolger2.
Mark
rmdeming wrote:
A comprehensive database / web site is obviously something
he'd like to do himself.
But I thought the original idea here was only to list the
designs, what they cost and where to get them.
That does not conflict with the spirit anything he said.
I worked about a decade as a database designer before
getting tired of spending all day in front of a computer. If
you'd rather, I'll take on the table in Bolger2.
Mark
rmdeming wrote:
>
> Okay Folks, Rich here...
>
> I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my
> position. I
> begged forgiveness, but explained why someone suggested it
> and why I
> started it (the database). Here is Bolger's response (a
> fax that
> showed up this morning). Here is what the first fax said
> verbatim;
>
> Dear Mr. Deming,
> Sorry about the slow response. We have a complete and
> fairly orderly
> archive of five hundred plus designs in chronology and
> detail (many
> of the 1950's designs are lost).
> The archive is not useful to anyone but us until we finish
> preparing
> it with comments and study plans, which we are doing as
> fast as we
> can, which is not very fast on account of interesting new
> designs and
> money to be made and the maddening distractions like the
> SNAME
> licenseing plot.
> In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would
> involve us in
> endless requests for more information about this or that,
> using time
> we should be spending either doing the catalog right or
> producing new
> designs that need doing.
> Thanks for your interest in helping us. Please be patient
> for a
> little longer.
> Sincerely,
> PB
>
> Rich back...There was a second page, a bit more personal,
> that adds
> that his books have designs for people who want more of
> his work (75
> Designs & 103 Rigs). Also, look to MAIB for his articles
> or to Payson
> for his plans and books.
>
> While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied. So
> here is
> what I do as the database owner:
> 1)I will no longer add or modify or support the
> database. The
> Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this
> database, so I
> give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is
> after all
> the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
> 2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within
> a couple of
> days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone
> wants the list
> of designs that are currently there, you can export the
> list to you
> hard drive. Get it now while you can.
>
> I apoligize to the group for having started this and then
> bailing,
> but I feel there is a moral responsibility here (with a
> little fore-
> thought on my part I would not have started it) and that
> is to
> respect Bolger's wishes (this group would not exist if it
> weren't for
> him) and wait for the official catalog of his designs.
>
> Rich...
> kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
> punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
> all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
When I faxed PB&F last week to inquire about a design for
cruising the Potomac River, I specifically asked for prices on
Tennessee plans. I received a VERY nice and VERY interesting
letter in reply, in which PCB suggested building Jochems
without the sailing rig.
A splendid idea, and I might very well do it, but he didn't tell me
the price for Tennessee plans. What if I decide I want
something easier and less expensive than Jochems, and I
decide to build Tennessee instead? Do I really need to send
another letter asking again for the price?
If Tennessee were included in the database (it isn't yet), I
wouldn't have to take up PB&F's time with that kind of question.
I guess I'm suggesting that the database should not be deleted.
Steve Paskey
cruising the Potomac River, I specifically asked for prices on
Tennessee plans. I received a VERY nice and VERY interesting
letter in reply, in which PCB suggested building Jochems
without the sailing rig.
A splendid idea, and I might very well do it, but he didn't tell me
the price for Tennessee plans. What if I decide I want
something easier and less expensive than Jochems, and I
decide to build Tennessee instead? Do I really need to send
another letter asking again for the price?
If Tennessee were included in the database (it isn't yet), I
wouldn't have to take up PB&F's time with that kind of question.
I guess I'm suggesting that the database should not be deleted.
Steve Paskey
--- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
> In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would involve
us in endless requests for more information about this or that,
using time we should be spending either doing the catalog right
or producing new designs that need doing.
I have to agree with Peter. I don't subscibe to MAIB, and I'm sure
anyone new to Bolgers designs might wonder as to plans prices. Here
it is merely listed, along with alternative pricing from Payson, for
those who do not need support from Mr. Bolger himself.
This may also free up time for Mr. Bolger, from people who contact
him merely to find out the plans prices. If they know the prices
ahead of time from the database, if they do contact him, they are
more likely to be a ready and willing plans buyer!
Paul
anyone new to Bolgers designs might wonder as to plans prices. Here
it is merely listed, along with alternative pricing from Payson, for
those who do not need support from Mr. Bolger himself.
This may also free up time for Mr. Bolger, from people who contact
him merely to find out the plans prices. If they know the prices
ahead of time from the database, if they do contact him, they are
more likely to be a ready and willing plans buyer!
Paul
> > While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied.than
>
> I disagree with your interpretation. If our database is no more
> a listing data that has appeared in MAIB articles that include planpurposes,
> prices and invite inquires and we want keep it for our own
> I see no reason not to do so. The fact is, we get a lot ofinquiries
> on this board like "Where do you get info about the Gloucesterturn
> Grouper?" and we have to answer "from PB&F." Would he want us to
> them away?
> While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied.I disagree with your interpretation. If our database is no more than
a listing data that has appeared in MAIB articles that include plan
prices and invite inquires and we want keep it for our own purposes,
I see no reason not to do so. The fact is, we get a lot of inquiries
on this board like "Where do you get info about the Gloucester
Grouper?" and we have to answer "from PB&F." Would he want us to turn
them away?
On the copyright issue: Copyright is of only marginal relevance. The
law is that the license to build a boat is a completely separate
thing from the physical plans. If the copyright expires, then others
can print the plan, but still only the designer can give the license
to build the boat. The designer's creation is separate from the
drawings that describe it.
Same for a patent. The patented idea is separate from the patent
drawings.
Peter
Okay Folks, Rich here...
I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my position. I
begged forgiveness, but explained why someone suggested it and why I
started it (the database). Here is Bolger's response (a fax that
showed up this morning). Here is what the first fax said verbatim;
Dear Mr. Deming,
Sorry about the slow response. We have a complete and fairly orderly
archive of five hundred plus designs in chronology and detail (many
of the 1950's designs are lost).
The archive is not useful to anyone but us until we finish preparing
it with comments and study plans, which we are doing as fast as we
can, which is not very fast on account of interesting new designs and
money to be made and the maddening distractions like the SNAME
licenseing plot.
In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would involve us in
endless requests for more information about this or that, using time
we should be spending either doing the catalog right or producing new
designs that need doing.
Thanks for your interest in helping us. Please be patient for a
little longer.
Sincerely,
PB
Rich back...There was a second page, a bit more personal, that adds
that his books have designs for people who want more of his work (75
Designs & 103 Rigs). Also, look to MAIB for his articles or to Payson
for his plans and books.
While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied. So here is
what I do as the database owner:
1)I will no longer add or modify or support the database. The
Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this database, so I
give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is after all
the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within a couple of
days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone wants the list
of designs that are currently there, you can export the list to you
hard drive. Get it now while you can.
I apoligize to the group for having started this and then bailing,
but I feel there is a moral responsibility here (with a little fore-
thought on my part I would not have started it) and that is to
respect Bolger's wishes (this group would not exist if it weren't for
him) and wait for the official catalog of his designs.
Rich...
kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.
I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my position. I
begged forgiveness, but explained why someone suggested it and why I
started it (the database). Here is Bolger's response (a fax that
showed up this morning). Here is what the first fax said verbatim;
Dear Mr. Deming,
Sorry about the slow response. We have a complete and fairly orderly
archive of five hundred plus designs in chronology and detail (many
of the 1950's designs are lost).
The archive is not useful to anyone but us until we finish preparing
it with comments and study plans, which we are doing as fast as we
can, which is not very fast on account of interesting new designs and
money to be made and the maddening distractions like the SNAME
licenseing plot.
In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would involve us in
endless requests for more information about this or that, using time
we should be spending either doing the catalog right or producing new
designs that need doing.
Thanks for your interest in helping us. Please be patient for a
little longer.
Sincerely,
PB
Rich back...There was a second page, a bit more personal, that adds
that his books have designs for people who want more of his work (75
Designs & 103 Rigs). Also, look to MAIB for his articles or to Payson
for his plans and books.
While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied. So here is
what I do as the database owner:
1)I will no longer add or modify or support the database. The
Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this database, so I
give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is after all
the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within a couple of
days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone wants the list
of designs that are currently there, you can export the list to you
hard drive. Get it now while you can.
I apoligize to the group for having started this and then bailing,
but I feel there is a moral responsibility here (with a little fore-
thought on my part I would not have started it) and that is to
respect Bolger's wishes (this group would not exist if it weren't for
him) and wait for the official catalog of his designs.
Rich...
kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.