Re: What is a motorsailer?
the reference to 'built in' was in the order of an engine block and
shaft type of arrangement. Not ANY kind of outboard. The engine would
have to be mounted 'inboard' and shafted to a prop. Sorry for any
confusion. I'm thinking of a V 6 or 8 (fuel optional) mounted in a
motor housing, complete with shaft and propeller(sp?) extending
through the hull and not removeable.
shaft type of arrangement. Not ANY kind of outboard. The engine would
have to be mounted 'inboard' and shafted to a prop. Sorry for any
confusion. I'm thinking of a V 6 or 8 (fuel optional) mounted in a
motor housing, complete with shaft and propeller(sp?) extending
through the hull and not removeable.
--- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
> So, any sailboat with a "built in" motor is a motorsailer?
> Define "built-in".
>
> Obviosly, a motor hanging off the back on a dropping bracket is
> not "built in".
>
> Would a free flooding motor well count? Them most big Bolger boat
> are "motor sailors"...
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
> > Just a little mouse's opinion, but I think I would call any boat
> with
> > a built in motor as a motorsailer, and any boat with sails and a
> > small outboard as a sailboat with a small outboard. Sailboat
with
> > big outboard I would call 'confused' (working cargo sailers
exempt:
> > They do whats nescessary to make the money, so anything goes)
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> > > David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I
> also
> > > think
> > > > that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
> > > motorsailer....
> > >
> > > Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one
Herreshoff
> or
> > > another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine
> that
> > is
> > > sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the
> > engine
> > > was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just
> about
> > > every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two
horsepower
> > per
> > > ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine
size
> > no
> > > longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
> > > motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set
> of
> > > features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in
most
> > > cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a
> > motorsailer,
> > > and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
> > >
> > > porky
Maybe it's determined by the size of the fuel tanks :)
Stew
-----Original Message-----
From: porcupinefysh [mailto:porcupine@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:28 PM
David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
Stew
-----Original Message-----
From: porcupinefysh [mailto:porcupine@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:28 PM
David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also
think
> that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
motorsailer....
Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff or
another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine that is
sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the engine
was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just about
every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower per
ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size no
longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set of
features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a motorsailer,
and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
porky
> The idea for the Insolvent 60 is born out of problems I have withMy one problem with the BDS is that the connecting mechanism is
> the BDS (too small, too ugly) and the Wyoming (no sails)
far too flimsy. I actually think she's pretty (I've been daydreaming
about her for years), and love the idea of getting a 47 footer (or
more) out of 20' sections that I can build in my garage. And the
accomodations aren't all stacked on one another like a jigsaw puzzle;
she looks like she'd actually be simpler to build than an AS29.
Plus, I already have the plans. :-)
I can think of half a dozen possible alternatives for stronger
connections, several of which would involve major surgery to the
boat, and was planning to write PCB to inquire about a revised
plan, but actually getting 60 feet rather than 47 out of the deal
is *very* tempting....
> Shall we collaborate on a letter to Mr. Bolger?You're on, assuming that we really do want the same boat, or
are close enough to make the differences a configurable option.
-- Sue --
(and I'd need to buy a different tow vehicle than the one that I
just bought to haul BDS sections around)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Sue --
There is no "Insolvent 60", at least not from Bolger. The Insolvent
60 is a theoretical reworking of the Bolger "Insolent 60", a 62x6
folding keel sharpie schooner recently seen MAIB.
The Insolent 60's main goal seems to be causing mayhem in big boat
races by keeping up with or even beating boats costing an order of
magnitude more money. It has spare accommodations for four to try to
make the idea of a balls out 60 foot racing sharpie a little more
tempting. The man who commissioned the study decided he wanted a
powerboat instead (sighting global warming.)
The idea for the Insolvent 60 is born out of problems I have with the
BDS (too small, too ugly) and the Wyoming (no sails) The Insolvent
would borrow heavily from the Insolent, but rework the idea is a full
bore Summer cruiser for a family. Hopefully it would have the grace
and accommodations of the Wyoming, with the sailing capacity of the
BDS.
Shall we collaborate on a letter to Mr. Boldger?
YIBB,
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
There is no "Insolvent 60", at least not from Bolger. The Insolvent
60 is a theoretical reworking of the Bolger "Insolent 60", a 62x6
folding keel sharpie schooner recently seen MAIB.
The Insolent 60's main goal seems to be causing mayhem in big boat
races by keeping up with or even beating boats costing an order of
magnitude more money. It has spare accommodations for four to try to
make the idea of a balls out 60 foot racing sharpie a little more
tempting. The man who commissioned the study decided he wanted a
powerboat instead (sighting global warming.)
The idea for the Insolvent 60 is born out of problems I have with the
BDS (too small, too ugly) and the Wyoming (no sails) The Insolvent
would borrow heavily from the Insolent, but rework the idea is a full
bore Summer cruiser for a family. Hopefully it would have the grace
and accommodations of the Wyoming, with the sailing capacity of the
BDS.
Shall we collaborate on a letter to Mr. Boldger?
YIBB,
David
>> Let's keep the the length and three part concept.C.E.P.
>> Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
>
>Three part concept? A sheet of plywood or narrower? This is
>sounding awfully familiar; has Bolger gone and revisited the
>Breakdown Schooner concept? And if so, where can I find more
>about this?
>
> -- Sue --
>(wannabe BDS builder)
>
>--
>Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
So, any sailboat with a "built in" motor is a motorsailer?
Define "built-in".
Obviosly, a motor hanging off the back on a dropping bracket is
not "built in".
Would a free flooding motor well count? Them most big Bolger boat
are "motor sailors"...
Define "built-in".
Obviosly, a motor hanging off the back on a dropping bracket is
not "built in".
Would a free flooding motor well count? Them most big Bolger boat
are "motor sailors"...
--- In bolger@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
> Just a little mouse's opinion, but I think I would call any boat
with
> a built in motor as a motorsailer, and any boat with sails and a
> small outboard as a sailboat with a small outboard. Sailboat with
> big outboard I would call 'confused' (working cargo sailers exempt:
> They do whats nescessary to make the money, so anything goes)
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> > David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >
> > > ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I
also
> > think
> > > that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
> > motorsailer....
> >
> > Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff
or
> > another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine
that
> is
> > sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the
> engine
> > was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just
about
> > every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower
> per
> > ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size
> no
> > longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
> > motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set
of
> > features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
> > cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a
> motorsailer,
> > and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
> >
> > porky
Just a little mouse's opinion, but I think I would call any boat with
a built in motor as a motorsailer, and any boat with sails and a
small outboard as a sailboat with a small outboard. Sailboat with
big outboard I would call 'confused' (working cargo sailers exempt:
They do whats nescessary to make the money, so anything goes)
a built in motor as a motorsailer, and any boat with sails and a
small outboard as a sailboat with a small outboard. Sailboat with
big outboard I would call 'confused' (working cargo sailers exempt:
They do whats nescessary to make the money, so anything goes)
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> > ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also
> think
> > that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
> motorsailer....
>
> Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff or
> another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine that
is
> sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the
engine
> was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just about
> every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower
per
> ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size
no
> longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
> motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set of
> features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
> cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a
motorsailer,
> and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
>
> porky
> Let's keep the the length and three part concept.Three part concept? A sheet of plywood or narrower? This is
> Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
sounding awfully familiar; has Bolger gone and revisited the
Breakdown Schooner concept? And if so, where can I find more
about this?
-- Sue --
(wannabe BDS builder)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
At the time that the term "motorsailer" was coined, engines were very
big and heavy for their power. A boat meant to sail would have at
most an engine big enough to ghost her around a harbor, or to get
into port in a calm. It would be fairly useless in strong wind.
Motorsailers were meant to motor in calm and light breezes, and had a
small rig with which they could sail in strong winds.
Engines are so much better now that everyone expects good power
performance from any sailing cruiser. Four hp per ton is a round
number. But if you look at boats built around 1980 when diesels
started replacing gas engines, you will find a lot with 2hp per ton,
or even less.
These days motorsailers range from the almost-a-sailboat to the
almost-a-powerboat. I think the biggest difference from a cruising
auxillary is the notion from the start that making distance under
power is just as acceptable as making distance under sail. From a
design point of view, I would expect the following in a motor sailer:
a) a powerboat-type conning station, probably inside.
b) straighter lines after than a pure sailer.
c) a very moderate rig, abandoning all prospect of sailing in winds
much less than 10 kts.
Peter
big and heavy for their power. A boat meant to sail would have at
most an engine big enough to ghost her around a harbor, or to get
into port in a calm. It would be fairly useless in strong wind.
Motorsailers were meant to motor in calm and light breezes, and had a
small rig with which they could sail in strong winds.
Engines are so much better now that everyone expects good power
performance from any sailing cruiser. Four hp per ton is a round
number. But if you look at boats built around 1980 when diesels
started replacing gas engines, you will find a lot with 2hp per ton,
or even less.
These days motorsailers range from the almost-a-sailboat to the
almost-a-powerboat. I think the biggest difference from a cruising
auxillary is the notion from the start that making distance under
power is just as acceptable as making distance under sail. From a
design point of view, I would expect the following in a motor sailer:
a) a powerboat-type conning station, probably inside.
b) straighter lines after than a pure sailer.
c) a very moderate rig, abandoning all prospect of sailing in winds
much less than 10 kts.
Peter
Actually I have 3 small brass cannon already for "Riff-Raff" the
marauding Micro, yet to be finished. Two were kits from "Cannon
Mania" a web business and one is a Brittish Yacht gun from the mid
1800's. It's about 3/4" bore, 18" barrel length and the carriage is
cast iron with a dolphin motif. Makes a very noticeable roar on
firing accompanied by a foot long flame if done after dark.
I should have every plastic gin palace on the Thousand Islands out
gunned.
Gotta' get some respect for square boats somehow.
Arghhhhhh!
Black Bruce
www.brucesboats.com
marauding Micro, yet to be finished. Two were kits from "Cannon
Mania" a web business and one is a Brittish Yacht gun from the mid
1800's. It's about 3/4" bore, 18" barrel length and the carriage is
cast iron with a dolphin motif. Makes a very noticeable roar on
firing accompanied by a foot long flame if done after dark.
I should have every plastic gin palace on the Thousand Islands out
gunned.
Gotta' get some respect for square boats somehow.
Arghhhhhh!
Black Bruce
www.brucesboats.com
A motorsailer is a boat that wears sails and a three or four bladed prop
and aboard which the owner thinks that the sails and the prop are the
proper combination.
Phil Smith
and aboard which the owner thinks that the sails and the prop are the
proper combination.
Phil Smith
Instead of a cannon, you could mount a big fire monitor, like a fire boat
on the bow.
on the bow.
Ah, but that may have been different horsepower. A horsepower from a
large, slow moving engine with a lot of torque will swing a bigger
propellor and will give more thrust than from one that spins faster.
Put it on a light, fast boat and it's another story, of course.
large, slow moving engine with a lot of torque will swing a bigger
propellor and will give more thrust than from one that spins faster.
Put it on a light, fast boat and it's another story, of course.
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> > ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also
> think
> > that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
> motorsailer....
>
> Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff or
> another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine that
is
> sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the engine
> was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just about
> every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower per
> ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size no
> longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
> motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set of
> features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
> cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a
motorsailer,
> and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
>
> porky
Except the ones with an insufficient power plant. Those are "Wet
Bars"
Roger S
Bars"
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "roger99a" <roger99a@h...> wrote:
> > I always assumed it was a boat that was designed with so
> > many "compromises" (read poor sailing qualities due to
excessive
> > creature comforts or poor hull shape) that a big motor had to be
> > added so it could get out of it's own way.
>
> Hmmm, by your definition, almost any sailboat in production
qualifies
> as a motorsailer <g>,
>
> porky
--- In bolger@y..., "roger99a" <roger99a@h...> wrote:
as a motorsailer <g>,
porky
> I always assumed it was a boat that was designed with soHmmm, by your definition, almost any sailboat in production qualifies
> many "compromises" (read poor sailing qualities due to excessive
> creature comforts or poor hull shape) that a big motor had to be
> added so it could get out of it's own way.
as a motorsailer <g>,
porky
I always assumed it was a boat that was designed with so
many "compromises" (read poor sailing qualities due to excessive
creature comforts or poor hull shape) that a big motor had to be
added so it could get out of it's own way.
Roger S
many "compromises" (read poor sailing qualities due to excessive
creature comforts or poor hull shape) that a big motor had to be
added so it could get out of it's own way.
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> > ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also
> think
> > that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
> motorsailer....
>
> Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff
or
> another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine
that is
> sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the
engine
> was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just about
> every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower
per
> ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size
no
> longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
> motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set of
> features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
> cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a
motorsailer,
> and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
>
> porky
David Ryan's post caused me to raise this question:
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> ....As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also
think
> that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a
motorsailer....
Long ago, somebody (think it was Eric Hiscock, or one Herreshoff or
another) said that an auxiliary sailboat should have an engine that is
sized to about one horsepower per ton of displacement. If the engine
was larger, you had a 50/50 or a motor-sailer. Nowadays just about
every sailboat designed has an engine of at least two horsepower per
ton displacement, and most have even more. Obviously, engine size no
longer marks a boat a motorsailer. So what distinguishes a
motorsailer? Is it a pilothouse, a small rig, or some other set of
features? Is it simply that the designer or (more likely in most
cases) the marketing department decides to call a boat a motorsailer,
and thus it is so? Does anyone want to venture a guess?
porky
If you really must have a cannon, I recommend you build a plywood
version of the replica gunboat up at the maritime museum in Vergennes
Vt. (for those of you with airplanes, there's an airport across the
street). It's a very simple shape with ample space which would make a
great party boat. If you struck the rigging and stuck with radio
control instead of full size, you could use it for an aircraft
carrier. Maybe with a Helio Courier with a hook, plus a deck
mounted catapult you could do full size also.
http://www.lcmm.org/
http://www.lcmm.org/images/img_harbor/img_exhibits_collections/philly4
.jpg
BTW, for those of you into naval history and Lake Champlain, I
recommend "The Eagle" by Kevin Crisman, if you can find it. (1987, I
think, Naval Institute Press) It's a great book, even if it was
written by the kid I used to hang out with in second grade.
version of the replica gunboat up at the maritime museum in Vergennes
Vt. (for those of you with airplanes, there's an airport across the
street). It's a very simple shape with ample space which would make a
great party boat. If you struck the rigging and stuck with radio
control instead of full size, you could use it for an aircraft
carrier. Maybe with a Helio Courier with a hook, plus a deck
mounted catapult you could do full size also.
http://www.lcmm.org/
http://www.lcmm.org/images/img_harbor/img_exhibits_collections/philly4
.jpg
BTW, for those of you into naval history and Lake Champlain, I
recommend "The Eagle" by Kevin Crisman, if you can find it. (1987, I
think, Naval Institute Press) It's a great book, even if it was
written by the kid I used to hang out with in second grade.
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> David,
>
> If you want cannon, built a Brigantine, or Rose (can't tame the rigs
> on these tubs, I'm afraid). You could pillage up and down the South
> Fork of LI, and few would complain.
>
snip
> You could pillage up and down the SouthBetter avoid the Hamptons. Plenty of big shots to complain there!
> Fork of LI, and few would complain.
PHV
Porky --
Hold on there, Hun. I'm just working the proposal letter ;-) Once
Bolger draws my "Cartwright Shoal Camper" I'll build it
"more-or-less" as drawn.
But seriously
I've only got to get it in and out of the water once a year, and even
then it only has to go a couple hundred feet, so trailer
consideration is nil. Let's go eight feet across the bottom, make the
boat a little roomier and stay as far away from trailer as we can.
As far as the rig goes, I can barely round up enough people to keep
my scooner flat when the Summer Southwest breeze gets fresh. With a
smaller, simpler rig, one person could strike or set a sail while the
other manned the helm.
As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also think
that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a motorsailer.
The BDS performs well under moter power. The LSII cruises along well
when pushed by her outboard. Unless a big sailboat is a flat out
racer, she's got to respond well to being motored. If it were just
about the month or two each Summer that I'd like to spend
semi-incommunicado with my family, the Wyo would win hands down. But
then there are days like today when I'd like nothing more than to be
on the sound, with a my boat healed down under the press of sail. An
"Insolvent 60" would do nearly everything I want from the Wyo, and
take me sailing as well.
As far as cannon, there's a long tradition of fast schooners carrying
a couple of cannon. Not for the full broadside that The Rose might
deliver, but enough to chase off the Rose's long boats if they tried
to sneek up on us!
YIBB,
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Hold on there, Hun. I'm just working the proposal letter ;-) Once
Bolger draws my "Cartwright Shoal Camper" I'll build it
"more-or-less" as drawn.
But seriously
I've only got to get it in and out of the water once a year, and even
then it only has to go a couple hundred feet, so trailer
consideration is nil. Let's go eight feet across the bottom, make the
boat a little roomier and stay as far away from trailer as we can.
As far as the rig goes, I can barely round up enough people to keep
my scooner flat when the Summer Southwest breeze gets fresh. With a
smaller, simpler rig, one person could strike or set a sail while the
other manned the helm.
As far as a "motorsailer" goes, I think you're right. I also think
that just about any sailboat over 30' is by definition a motorsailer.
The BDS performs well under moter power. The LSII cruises along well
when pushed by her outboard. Unless a big sailboat is a flat out
racer, she's got to respond well to being motored. If it were just
about the month or two each Summer that I'd like to spend
semi-incommunicado with my family, the Wyo would win hands down. But
then there are days like today when I'd like nothing more than to be
on the sound, with a my boat healed down under the press of sail. An
"Insolvent 60" would do nearly everything I want from the Wyo, and
take me sailing as well.
As far as cannon, there's a long tradition of fast schooners carrying
a couple of cannon. Not for the full broadside that The Rose might
deliver, but enough to chase off the Rose's long boats if they tried
to sneek up on us!
YIBB,
David
>If you want cannon, built a Brigantine, or Rose (can't tame the rigsC.E.P.
>on these tubs, I'm afraid). You could pillage up and down the South
>Fork of LI, and few would complain.
>
>Seriously, I think Bolger would be delighted if the thing were built
>more-or-less as drawn. If you widened the bottom the boat would not
>be legally trailerable on NYS roads, and you would complicate the
>trailer. The rig simplification and keel reduction are possible,
>imho. I can't help suspecting that you would be happier with a
>motorsailer, tho....
>
>BTW, I resent being called a Vandal, and the kids have co-opped the
>Goth thing. I much prefer to be thought of as a Hun,
>
>;o)
>
>porky
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> FBBB --
>>
>> Thanks to a nefarious copywrite vandal, I've had a chance to read
>the
>> Insolent 60 write essay and look and the sketches.
>>
>> What a wonderful boat.
>>
>> Now I wonder, what we could do with a dedicated cruising version of
>> the same concept? For now we'll call it the "Insolvent 60."
>>
>> Let's keep the the length and three part concept.
>>
>> Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
>>
>> Let's tame the rig a bit, three jib headed spritsail perhaps?
>>
>> Since we've cut down the rig a bit, let's get rid of some of that
>lead keel.
>>
>> Since big sail boats spent a bit of time under power, let's put a
>> little more motor on her. Say enough to make 7 knots.
>>
>> Let's put a trolling motor on the front a la Wyo' to make low speed
>> handling a little handier.
>>
>> Anything else? A cannon or two perhaps?
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
>> New York, New York 10001
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
David,
If you want cannon, built a Brigantine, or Rose (can't tame the rigs
on these tubs, I'm afraid). You could pillage up and down the South
Fork of LI, and few would complain.
Seriously, I think Bolger would be delighted if the thing were built
more-or-less as drawn. If you widened the bottom the boat would not
be legally trailerable on NYS roads, and you would complicate the
trailer. The rig simplification and keel reduction are possible,
imho. I can't help suspecting that you would be happier with a
motorsailer, tho....
BTW, I resent being called a Vandal, and the kids have co-opped the
Goth thing. I much prefer to be thought of as a Hun,
;o)
porky
If you want cannon, built a Brigantine, or Rose (can't tame the rigs
on these tubs, I'm afraid). You could pillage up and down the South
Fork of LI, and few would complain.
Seriously, I think Bolger would be delighted if the thing were built
more-or-less as drawn. If you widened the bottom the boat would not
be legally trailerable on NYS roads, and you would complicate the
trailer. The rig simplification and keel reduction are possible,
imho. I can't help suspecting that you would be happier with a
motorsailer, tho....
BTW, I resent being called a Vandal, and the kids have co-opped the
Goth thing. I much prefer to be thought of as a Hun,
;o)
porky
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> Thanks to a nefarious copywrite vandal, I've had a chance to read
the
> Insolent 60 write essay and look and the sketches.
>
> What a wonderful boat.
>
> Now I wonder, what we could do with a dedicated cruising version of
> the same concept? For now we'll call it the "Insolvent 60."
>
> Let's keep the the length and three part concept.
>
> Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
>
> Let's tame the rig a bit, three jib headed spritsail perhaps?
>
> Since we've cut down the rig a bit, let's get rid of some of that
lead keel.
>
> Since big sail boats spent a bit of time under power, let's put a
> little more motor on her. Say enough to make 7 knots.
>
> Let's put a trolling motor on the front a la Wyo' to make low speed
> handling a little handier.
>
> Anything else? A cannon or two perhaps?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
FBBB --
Thanks to a nefarious copywrite vandal, I've had a chance to read the
Insolent 60 write essay and look and the sketches.
What a wonderful boat.
Now I wonder, what we could do with a dedicated cruising version of
the same concept? For now we'll call it the "Insolvent 60."
Let's keep the the length and three part concept.
Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
Let's tame the rig a bit, three jib headed spritsail perhaps?
Since we've cut down the rig a bit, let's get rid of some of that lead keel.
Since big sail boats spent a bit of time under power, let's put a
little more motor on her. Say enough to make 7 knots.
Let's put a trolling motor on the front a la Wyo' to make low speed
handling a little handier.
Anything else? A cannon or two perhaps?
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Thanks to a nefarious copywrite vandal, I've had a chance to read the
Insolent 60 write essay and look and the sketches.
What a wonderful boat.
Now I wonder, what we could do with a dedicated cruising version of
the same concept? For now we'll call it the "Insolvent 60."
Let's keep the the length and three part concept.
Let's widen the bottom to a full sheet of plywood.
Let's tame the rig a bit, three jib headed spritsail perhaps?
Since we've cut down the rig a bit, let's get rid of some of that lead keel.
Since big sail boats spent a bit of time under power, let's put a
little more motor on her. Say enough to make 7 knots.
Let's put a trolling motor on the front a la Wyo' to make low speed
handling a little handier.
Anything else? A cannon or two perhaps?
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296