Re: [bolger] Re: Otter
BWII is a Solent lug.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your help Bruce.
> >
> > >The center mast is double, like a gunter
> > I think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
> > however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
> > PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
> >
> BIRDWATCHER II has a gunter rig and PCB says BW is his favorite
> design. I think the version he uses is pretty foolproof in smaller
> sized sails, but not sure if anyone actually has a BWI with that rig.
> The original offers the Leg-o'-mutton with sprit boom.
>
> Cheers, Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
many sails involved.
about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))
Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html
That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
club. So take care...
Gavin
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
> Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed bythe
> S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting therig
> of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger hadthis
> his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with
> rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-107 - an
> up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page
> added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner
or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
many sails involved.
> > Sheryl Crowe indeed!This was a trivial reply to a trivial reference to a previous mail
> Gavin this reference eludes me?
about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))
Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html
That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
club. So take care...
Gavin
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
many sails involved.
about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))
Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html
That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
club. So take care...
Gavin
<graeme19121984@y...> wrote:
> Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed bythe
> S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting therig
> of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger hadthis
> his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with
> rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-107 - an
> up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page
> added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner
or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
many sails involved.
> > Sheryl Crowe indeed!This was a trivial reply to a trivial reference to a previous mail
> Gavin this reference eludes me?
about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))
Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html
That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
club. So take care...
Gavin
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
In the gunter the yard extends along the upper (perhaps half) luff.
The luff in way of the yard is fastened (laced) to the yard. The
luff may be straight, as in a marconi, making for a triangular sail;
or it may have a slight angle in way of the yard making for a
quadrilateral sail. With the sail rigged the yard stands verticle,
or nearly so. The yard is referred to as 'yard' or 'upper mast', but
not 'gaff'. As sail is reefed the yard Remains Verticle and slides
down behind the mast ( there are quite a few ways of rigging this -
one involving a throat halyard and peak halyard similar to the gaff
rig; another involving a peak halyard sliding on a wire span fitted
full length along the fore of the yard fastened near the ends of the
yard, and also having a throat halyard).
In boats to 30ft or so the gunter has a number of benificial
attributes, some of which are: it can be peaked up nearly as good as
a marconi making it weatherly; the weight of the yard overcomes
binding of the sail to the mast, helping the sail down when reefing;
weight aloft is reduced when reefed, as the yard is lowered; and the
short spars can be stowed within the boat length when the rig is
struck. Others could probably add further.
Many boating and sailing books I have read give the gunter rig a
good recommendation for small boats. I have a feeling that PCB does
not like the gunter, even strongly dislikes it. I think I might of
seen it alluded to that he has explained why, but I've not read it.
Graeme
> >mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.In the gaff the yard extends along the head of the sail.
>
> This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.
In the gunter the yard extends along the upper (perhaps half) luff.
The luff in way of the yard is fastened (laced) to the yard. The
luff may be straight, as in a marconi, making for a triangular sail;
or it may have a slight angle in way of the yard making for a
quadrilateral sail. With the sail rigged the yard stands verticle,
or nearly so. The yard is referred to as 'yard' or 'upper mast', but
not 'gaff'. As sail is reefed the yard Remains Verticle and slides
down behind the mast ( there are quite a few ways of rigging this -
one involving a throat halyard and peak halyard similar to the gaff
rig; another involving a peak halyard sliding on a wire span fitted
full length along the fore of the yard fastened near the ends of the
yard, and also having a throat halyard).
In boats to 30ft or so the gunter has a number of benificial
attributes, some of which are: it can be peaked up nearly as good as
a marconi making it weatherly; the weight of the yard overcomes
binding of the sail to the mast, helping the sail down when reefing;
weight aloft is reduced when reefed, as the yard is lowered; and the
short spars can be stowed within the boat length when the rig is
struck. Others could probably add further.
Many boating and sailing books I have read give the gunter rig a
good recommendation for small boats. I have a feeling that PCB does
not like the gunter, even strongly dislikes it. I think I might of
seen it alluded to that he has explained why, but I've not read it.
Graeme
> was always very fast compared with other boats at Messabouts.It's got the speed. It's got the looks. But
> If Bolger had just reorganised the rig a little, the originalOtter might
> have been much more popular and I rather wonder why he didn't.Both Bruce and Karl have posted that the designed rig is "Cat-
Schooner with a Jigger".
I've now got an impression of what a "Jigger" is.
Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed by the
S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting the rig
of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger had
his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with this
rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-
up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page 107 - an
added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)
> Sheryl Crowe indeed!Gavin this reference eludes me? Is Sheryl a looker as in "good", or
a looker? The gazed or gazer?
graeme
Bruce Hallman wrote:
continues in a straight line from the top of the mast). The sail
is cut triangular, like a bermuda rig. This is the rig on my
daughter's Heron, and it has much to recommend it - essentially
a bermuda-like rig, except that the spars are much smaller and
there is no need for sail tracks to raise the mainsail. The
Heron's mast is stayed, and I doubt that an unstayed gunter would
be feasible.
I would be interested to hear Bolger's objection to the gunter.
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.A gunter is like a gaff, but the gaff itself is vertical (ie it
>
> This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.
continues in a straight line from the top of the mast). The sail
is cut triangular, like a bermuda rig. This is the rig on my
daughter's Heron, and it has much to recommend it - essentially
a bermuda-like rig, except that the spars are much smaller and
there is no need for sail tracks to raise the mainsail. The
Heron's mast is stayed, and I doubt that an unstayed gunter would
be feasible.
I would be interested to hear Bolger's objection to the gunter.
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.
Graeme,
I should have brought the book to work with me tonight, but I'm sure the mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2005 6:01 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
Thanks for your help Bruce.
however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
much space? I ask this because the scan of Otter ll I've seen has a
higher cabin top than Otter and even higher cabin top sliding hatch.
to read any of those earlier works. Its looked to me that
international shipping charges price most prospective book purchases
beyond the acceptable. But if they are personally really worth it
and will never be available any other way... Perhaps a bulk purchase?
but surely the *Collected Works* will one day be available on CD or
whatever...?
a bulkhead extending upwards from the floor to exclude any cockpit
water from the cabin?
kind regards
graeme
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Yahoo! Groups Links
I should have brought the book to work with me tonight, but I'm sure the mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2005 6:01 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
Thanks for your help Bruce.
>The center mast is double, like a gunterI think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
> Looks pretty lightweight, and I don't think it hasDoes it look like the under floor ballast below the cuddy robs too
> any hard ballast, but there is some water ballast,
> under a false bottom to the cuddy and cockpit.
much space? I ask this because the scan of Otter ll I've seen has a
higher cabin top than Otter and even higher cabin top sliding hatch.
> Seek out a copy of the book _Small Boats_Surely good advice and I've begun to get to grips with EBay in order
> [$40 +/- on EBay every month or so.]
> The full set of plans and building key are
> reproduced in the book.
to read any of those earlier works. Its looked to me that
international shipping charges price most prospective book purchases
beyond the acceptable. But if they are personally really worth it
and will never be available any other way... Perhaps a bulk purchase?
but surely the *Collected Works* will one day be available on CD or
whatever...?
> > 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatchWe can still crawl so don't mind that at all, but wonder if it has
> It has a 'crawl in' hatch, like the LF Herreshoff
> Rosinante.
a bulkhead extending upwards from the floor to exclude any cockpit
water from the cabin?
> Ten sheets of plywood.Very simple suits me.
> It looks like a very simple and fast build
kind regards
graeme
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Hi Karl,
thanks very much for aswering my queries.
Yes, the boat in the photo must be rigged differently as it looks to
me to be stayed, with a self-tacking club boom of an unrigged jib
stowed on the foredeck. I wonder if this boat was rigged not per
plan in accord with the negative public response to an unusual rig
you say Bolger wrote of, or perhaps just because this rig was easier
to rig or to hand at the time(both sails photoed appear
conventionally footed to booms, both masts of alloy)? I've seen
sketches of some other Bolger designs with an aft leaning foremast.
I can't recall the smaller ones, but PCB's proposed 1984 OSTAR entry
for William Wallace uses one likewise seperate to the mainmast, and
with mast furling.
350lbs water ballast: I like that for trailing then sailing.
Fast and weatherly sailer: I've noticed since I first posted that
in the photo there appear to be side decks in way of the cockpit for
hiking out. Otter sounds better all the time!
Thanks again.
Kind regards
graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Rasmussen"
<karl.rasmussen@t...> wrote:
Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on
the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the
response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design
something more conventional for Otter 11.
Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of
touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about
the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't
remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your
picture is rigged differently.
trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal
length tiller.
He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.
thanks very much for aswering my queries.
Yes, the boat in the photo must be rigged differently as it looks to
me to be stayed, with a self-tacking club boom of an unrigged jib
stowed on the foredeck. I wonder if this boat was rigged not per
plan in accord with the negative public response to an unusual rig
you say Bolger wrote of, or perhaps just because this rig was easier
to rig or to hand at the time(both sails photoed appear
conventionally footed to booms, both masts of alloy)? I've seen
sketches of some other Bolger designs with an aft leaning foremast.
I can't recall the smaller ones, but PCB's proposed 1984 OSTAR entry
for William Wallace uses one likewise seperate to the mainmast, and
with mast furling.
350lbs water ballast: I like that for trailing then sailing.
Fast and weatherly sailer: I've noticed since I first posted that
in the photo there appear to be side decks in way of the cockpit for
hiking out. Otter sounds better all the time!
Thanks again.
Kind regards
graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Rasmussen"
<karl.rasmussen@t...> wrote:
> Graeme,early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book
> Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an
Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on
the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the
response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design
something more conventional for Otter 11.
>described the rig for Otter 1 as a re-jig of an old fashioned Cat
> I haven't got the book in front of me, but I think Bolger
Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
> The foremast was back from the stem just enough to giver itsufficient bury, and it was tilted back to resemble a jib, but with
a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of
touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about
the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't
remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your
picture is rigged differently.
>some sort of linked extension. Bolger explains that the boat won't
> The rudder is mounted on the transom, and the tiller has
trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal
length tiller.
>my book to be sure. I'm currently at work!
> The boat has a transom.
>
> I think the boat has two leeboards, but would have to find
> The boat is lightly constructed like most Bolger sharpies,but it has integral water ballast tanks holding about 350lb water.
He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.
>and
> Cheers,
> Karl Rasmussen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2005 3:27 p.m.
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
>
>
>
>
> Bruce,
> congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.
>
> Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation
> savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.The
>
> Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing.
> high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearerthan
> the small colour version I have seen previously.taken
>
> When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really
> with Otter. BUT confused...Otter.
>
> Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's
> He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy andIt
> difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
> reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer).
> was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was avery
> different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someoneblue
> thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
> and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.
>
> From the database:
> Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -
> leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
>
> Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
> Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.
>
> I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
> the photo Bruce posted):
>
> 1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?
>
> 2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?
>
> 3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?
>
> 4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?
>
> 5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?
>
> 6. rope slung leeboards?
>
> 7. is the boat heavy?
>
> 8. any ballast?
>
> 9. how good a sailer?
>
> 10. does the jib enhance windward ability?
>
> 11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
> photo)?
>
> 12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?
>
> 13. if so, how is water entry prevented?
>
> 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
> ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
> water entry prevented?
>
> 15. have many been built, any pics?
>
> 16. would the plans still be US$100?
>
> 17. how good a rower?
>
> 18. about when was it designed?
>
> I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
> Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not
> water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin waterposts
> gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
> Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
> design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
> shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
> Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)
>
> Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
> the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
> have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
> model to wonder at, Bruce?
>
> fair winds
> graeme
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Here is a photo of an Otter,
> > at a Midwest mess-a-bout
> > circa 1990.
> >
> > Also, that if Jim Michalak's
> > original Birdwatcher and a Micro.
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
This question of the Otter's rig is an interesting one. Working from memory
of an email conversation I had with Jim Huxford some years ago, the boat
was always very fast compared with other boats at Messabouts. He didn't use
the aft-leaning foremast that made the boat unpopular, but instead (here
I'm getting hazy) I think he used the three stays so he could hang a jib on
the forestay. Looking at the drawing, there's no reason to think that it
would not work.
If Bolger had just reorganised the rig a little, the original Otter might
have been much more popular and I rather wonder why he didn't.
I tend to draw my own boats, but if there are three of Bolger's that I'd
build they would be the Black Skimmer, the Otter and the Auray Punt. That
last one just goes to prove that I'm not the shallow type who goes only for
looks. Sheryl Crowe indeed! It's that attractive sheer that gets light
dories blown around...
Gavin
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of an email conversation I had with Jim Huxford some years ago, the boat
was always very fast compared with other boats at Messabouts. He didn't use
the aft-leaning foremast that made the boat unpopular, but instead (here
I'm getting hazy) I think he used the three stays so he could hang a jib on
the forestay. Looking at the drawing, there's no reason to think that it
would not work.
If Bolger had just reorganised the rig a little, the original Otter might
have been much more popular and I rather wonder why he didn't.
I tend to draw my own boats, but if there are three of Bolger's that I'd
build they would be the Black Skimmer, the Otter and the Auray Punt. That
last one just goes to prove that I'm not the shallow type who goes only for
looks. Sheryl Crowe indeed! It's that attractive sheer that gets light
dories blown around...
Gavin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.2 - Release Date: 28/02/2005
Graeme,
Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design something more conventional for Otter 11.
I haven't got the book in front of me, but I think Bolger described the rig for Otter 1 as a re-jig of an old fashioned Cat Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
The foremast was back from the stem just enough to giver it sufficient bury, and it was tilted back to resemble a jib, but with a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your picture is rigged differently.
The rudder is mounted on the transom, and the tiller has some sort of linked extension. Bolger explains that the boat won't trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal length tiller.
The boat has a transom.
I think the boat has two leeboards, but would have to find my book to be sure. I'm currently at work!
The boat is lightly constructed like most Bolger sharpies, but it has integral water ballast tanks holding about 350lb water. He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.
Cheers,
Karl Rasmussen
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2005 3:27 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
Bruce,
congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.
Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation and
savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.
Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing. The
high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearer than
the small colour version I have seen previously.
When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really taken
with Otter. BUT confused...
Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's Otter.
He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy and
difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer). It
was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was a very
different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someone
thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.
From the database:
Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -
leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.
I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
the photo Bruce posted):
1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?
2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?
3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?
4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?
5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?
6. rope slung leeboards?
7. is the boat heavy?
8. any ballast?
9. how good a sailer?
10. does the jib enhance windward ability?
11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
photo)?
12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?
13. if so, how is water entry prevented?
14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
water entry prevented?
15. have many been built, any pics?
16. would the plans still be US$100?
17. how good a rower?
18. about when was it designed?
I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not blue
water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin water
gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)
Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
model to wonder at, Bruce?
fair winds
graeme
Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design something more conventional for Otter 11.
I haven't got the book in front of me, but I think Bolger described the rig for Otter 1 as a re-jig of an old fashioned Cat Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
The foremast was back from the stem just enough to giver it sufficient bury, and it was tilted back to resemble a jib, but with a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your picture is rigged differently.
The rudder is mounted on the transom, and the tiller has some sort of linked extension. Bolger explains that the boat won't trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal length tiller.
The boat has a transom.
I think the boat has two leeboards, but would have to find my book to be sure. I'm currently at work!
The boat is lightly constructed like most Bolger sharpies, but it has integral water ballast tanks holding about 350lb water. He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.
Cheers,
Karl Rasmussen
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2005 3:27 p.m.
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
Bruce,
congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.
Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation and
savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.
Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing. The
high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearer than
the small colour version I have seen previously.
When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really taken
with Otter. BUT confused...
Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's Otter.
He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy and
difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer). It
was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was a very
different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someone
thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.
From the database:
Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -
leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.
I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
the photo Bruce posted):
1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?
2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?
3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?
4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?
5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?
6. rope slung leeboards?
7. is the boat heavy?
8. any ballast?
9. how good a sailer?
10. does the jib enhance windward ability?
11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
photo)?
12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?
13. if so, how is water entry prevented?
14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
water entry prevented?
15. have many been built, any pics?
16. would the plans still be US$100?
17. how good a rower?
18. about when was it designed?
I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not blue
water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin water
gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)
Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
model to wonder at, Bruce?
fair winds
graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Here is a photo of an Otter,
> at a Midwest mess-a-bout
> circa 1990.
>
> Also, that if Jim Michalak's
> original Birdwatcher and a Micro.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg
Bolger rules!!!
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- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Yahoo! Groups Links
The one referenced here
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/
and w/ photo here
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0315/
is the original model, I think, though it doesn't show the jigger.
Builder Jim Huxford is a friend of Jim Michalak's and gets
several Google hits himself. Maybe you can track down his
email and ask about it.
Mark
"Harry W. James" wrote:
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/
and w/ photo here
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0315/
is the original model, I think, though it doesn't show the jigger.
Builder Jim Huxford is a friend of Jim Michalak's and gets
several Google hits himself. Maybe you can track down his
email and ask about it.
Mark
"Harry W. James" wrote:
>
> Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very
> curious if the
> raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to
> see pictures.
>
I think so, as I recall there was an Otter 2 design with changes based
on experience.
on experience.
--- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
> Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very curious if
the
> raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see
pictures.
>
>
> HJ
Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very curious if the
raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see pictures.
HJ
raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see pictures.
HJ