John Welsford (was Teal, Cartopper or Other)
On Thursday 28 February 2002 22:46, futabachan wrote:
--
Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
Perth Western Australia
tel: +618 9256 0083
>Ah! A mystery is solved. Now we know where John Welsford went.
> Here's one more option for you, that might be ideal:
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/houdini/index.htm
--
Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
Perth Western Australia
tel: +618 9256 0083
The plans for the $200 sailboat show several pictures
of Dave one-handing the boat up on to a car. There is
no apparent problem in cartopping it that I can see.
James
of Dave one-handing the boat up on to a car. There is
no apparent problem in cartopping it that I can see.
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:43 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Teal, Cartopper or Other
> > Take a look at this page:
>http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
>
> I agree. Reflecting after my prior posting, I though the $200 was the
> best of the lot. However, the strong sheer may make cartopping
> tricky. The rack has to be far enough off the roof to keep the ends
> off the car.
>
> Peter
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Houdini's probably not a good choice for rowing: at nearly 6 feet,
she's too beamy to row far. She's also more complicated to build
than any of the Bolger "instant boats".
I'd suggest John Welsford's "Golden Bay Dinghy," a 12 foot stitch and
glue design with a centerboard and standing lug rig:
www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/goldenbaysetnet/index.htm
Stephen Paskey
she's too beamy to row far. She's also more complicated to build
than any of the Bolger "instant boats".
I'd suggest John Welsford's "Golden Bay Dinghy," a 12 foot stitch and
glue design with a centerboard and standing lug rig:
www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/goldenbaysetnet/index.htm
Stephen Paskey
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> Here's one more option for you, that might be ideal:
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/houdini/index.htm
> I'm not sure what its rowing facilities are, though.
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
I have rowed a Brick maybe a mile against 20mph or so wind, sitting
down. I find this easier than standing up, actually. I admit I
relocated the oarlocks. While it is not a good rowboat, if you set up
a proper seat it rows well enough to get back home when the wind quits
or if there's a problem with the rig.
In terms of interior room, price, ease of construction (though I
didn't build it), and ease of cartopping, it probably wins out over
most of the others mentioned. Sails ok and stays dry, too. If you also
need a good rowboat, if you put a Nymph on first, with a little
fiddling you can fit the Brick over it. I admit the Nymph won't row
two adults AND two kids.
Might be worthwile to make the dagger/leeboard and rudder swing up.
I guess those of you who have been on the list for a while have heard
enough of me raving about how good the Brick is, but not the newbies.
Lincoln
who needs a M.E. job to stop all this raving on the web
down. I find this easier than standing up, actually. I admit I
relocated the oarlocks. While it is not a good rowboat, if you set up
a proper seat it rows well enough to get back home when the wind quits
or if there's a problem with the rig.
In terms of interior room, price, ease of construction (though I
didn't build it), and ease of cartopping, it probably wins out over
most of the others mentioned. Sails ok and stays dry, too. If you also
need a good rowboat, if you put a Nymph on first, with a little
fiddling you can fit the Brick over it. I admit the Nymph won't row
two adults AND two kids.
Might be worthwile to make the dagger/leeboard and rudder swing up.
I guess those of you who have been on the list for a while have heard
enough of me raving about how good the Brick is, but not the newbies.
Lincoln
who needs a M.E. job to stop all this raving on the web
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
snip
> Another possibility might be the Brick, which is also dead simple,
> and definitely has room for "four big men and a large, frightened
> dog," let alone two parents with kids and a large picnic basket.
> And her freeboard is reassuringly high; she'll keep you dry.
> Brick's one major bug is that you need to row her standing up,
> which might make her fail your requirement #4. She's very ugly,
> but if you're feeling ambitious, the sight of Mom and Dad in a
> Brick, with two kids in two Tortoises following behind like
> ducklings could be very cute....
>
snip
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
> Take a look at this page:http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
I agree. Reflecting after my prior posting, I though the $200 was the
best of the lot. However, the strong sheer may make cartopping
tricky. The rack has to be far enough off the roof to keep the ends
off the car.
Peter
Take a look at this page:
http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
Easy to build, great capacity, fast, and inexpensive.
Super little skiff.
James
From: "futabachan" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:37 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Teal, Cartopper or Other
http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
Easy to build, great capacity, fast, and inexpensive.
Super little skiff.
James
From: "futabachan" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:37 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Teal, Cartopper or Other
> > My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> > 1)Relatively simply construction
> > 2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small children
> > 3)Able to be transported on top of car/truck
> > 4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sail
> > 5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)
> > 6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboard
> > 7)Preference for kick-up rudder
>
> Have you considered the Windsprint? She has the capacity that
> you want, is light and cartoppable, has a (funky off-center)
> daggerboard rather than a leeboard, and is dead simple to build.
> She's longer than the 12' that you specify, but probably quicker
> to build than a Cartopper would be.
>
> Requirement #5 might be a bit of an issue, but not if you're
> prudent about shortening sail when the wind pipes up. She's
> designed to be rowable, but you're left to place the oarlocks
> yourself, and sit on a box to row her; that may or may not
> satisfy your requirement #4. And I've got Windsprints on the
> brain just now, so I'm hardly unbiased.
>
> Another possibility might be the Brick, which is also dead simple,
> and definitely has room for "four big men and a large, frightened
> dog," let alone two parents with kids and a large picnic basket.
> And her freeboard is reassuringly high; she'll keep you dry.
> Brick's one major bug is that you need to row her standing up,
> which might make her fail your requirement #4. She's very ugly,
> but if you're feeling ambitious, the sight of Mom and Dad in a
> Brick, with two kids in two Tortoises following behind like
> ducklings could be very cute....
>
> June Bug rows well, is easy to build, and could take two adults
> and two kids (or two adults and a huge concrete mooring block),
> but she has a leeboard, which you don't like. You could build
> her with a daggerboard, though, if you were willing to put up
> with a bit of extra complexity.
>
> If you're willing to add that little bit of complexity (which
> Cartopper would require anyway), you might look into the Gypsy,
> which is the "cover boat" for _Build The New Instant Boats_.
> She may be just right for you: she rows well, sails well, stays
> dry, and you could take your kids along. She's a tiny bit more
> complex than Brick or Windsprint, but still just fine for a
> first-time builder. And some folks around here are building
> sister ships, as evidenced by one of the recent threads on the
> list.
>
> All of the above boats except Brick appear, with full plans and
> instructions, in _Build The New Instant Boats_; full-sized plans
> are available from Payson or from PB&F. Full plans for Brick
> appear in _Boats With An Open Mind_; PB&F has full-sized plans.
>
> Other possibilities: Jim Michalak might have a suitable design
> that could be ordered through Chuck's website. There might be
> something suitable at bateau.com. Duckworks Magazine recently
> ran a design contest that produced mostly boats too small to
> meet your requirement #2, but the two winners are a bit longer
> than the other entries, and might be suitable.
>
> -- Sue --
> (And one of these years, I *want* one of Entry #6, despite it
> not having placed anywhere....)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)Here's one more option for you, that might be ideal:
>
> 1)Relatively simply construction
> 2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small children
> 3)Able to be transported on top of car/truck
> 4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sail
> 5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)
> 6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboard
> 7)Preference for kick-up rudder
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/houdini/index.htm
I'm not sure what its rowing facilities are, though.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Of course, there are several Bolger boats in the "small family" size
range. In the Teal family, there are Surf (too flighty for family) an
Zephyr (which seems big, but which really isn't much harder to
build). June Bug. There is Featherwind and her fraternal (soroital?)
twin the $200 Sailboat. There is the Catfish catboat, including the
new, traditional cockpit version. There's Oldshoe. There's Cynthia J.
There's Wisp. There's Sparkler.
And then, there are the boats of more complex shape.
Peter
range. In the Teal family, there are Surf (too flighty for family) an
Zephyr (which seems big, but which really isn't much harder to
build). June Bug. There is Featherwind and her fraternal (soroital?)
twin the $200 Sailboat. There is the Catfish catboat, including the
new, traditional cockpit version. There's Oldshoe. There's Cynthia J.
There's Wisp. There's Sparkler.
And then, there are the boats of more complex shape.
Peter
One other thing to think about is that by seeking a boat with a
centerboard or daggerboard, you're immediately decreasing the
available cockpit space. I used to have an aversion to leeboards on
strictly esthetic grounds -- they break up the sheer and clutter the
beautiful curve of the side -- but after building Jim Michalak's
Mayfly 14, I'm totally sold on them. 1) The leeboard leaves you a
huge cockpit area and 2) the pivoting leeboard beats even
Windsprint's bilgeboard, because it pops up when you sail over a log,
or approach the beach. For anyone who sails off a beach, or in
shallow waters, the pivoting leeboard is a godsend.
So . . . maybe consider Mayfly 14. It will carry two adults and two
kids. It rows, it sails. Very dry -- more so than Gypsy. It is
cartoppable -- though it needs two people to heave it up there.
Garth
centerboard or daggerboard, you're immediately decreasing the
available cockpit space. I used to have an aversion to leeboards on
strictly esthetic grounds -- they break up the sheer and clutter the
beautiful curve of the side -- but after building Jim Michalak's
Mayfly 14, I'm totally sold on them. 1) The leeboard leaves you a
huge cockpit area and 2) the pivoting leeboard beats even
Windsprint's bilgeboard, because it pops up when you sail over a log,
or approach the beach. For anyone who sails off a beach, or in
shallow waters, the pivoting leeboard is a godsend.
So . . . maybe consider Mayfly 14. It will carry two adults and two
kids. It rows, it sails. Very dry -- more so than Gypsy. It is
cartoppable -- though it needs two people to heave it up there.
Garth
> I don't think P. Bolger would shun me for suggesting you comparesome
> designs not of his hand. Jim Michalak's Mixer and Multi Purposesome
> Skiff; and Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff more or less meet you list of
> requirements. Not that there is any thing wrone with P. Bolger
> vessels, I'm here after all and even Mr. Bolger skeaks highly of
> other designers.
I agree with Chris and the others here; most of what you want is fine
but 4 people, even if 2 are kids in a 12' boat is over loading. With
4 people in the boat it would be so crowded you would have a hard time
sailing it.
I don't think P. Bolger would shun me for suggesting you compare some
designs not of his hand. Jim Michalak's Mixer and Multi Purpose
Skiff; and Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff more or less meet you list of
requirements. Not that there is any thing wrone with P. Bolger
vessels, I'm here after all and even Mr. Bolger skeaks highly of some
other designers.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
but 4 people, even if 2 are kids in a 12' boat is over loading. With
4 people in the boat it would be so crowded you would have a hard time
sailing it.
I don't think P. Bolger would shun me for suggesting you compare some
designs not of his hand. Jim Michalak's Mixer and Multi Purpose
Skiff; and Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff more or less meet you list of
requirements. Not that there is any thing wrone with P. Bolger
vessels, I'm here after all and even Mr. Bolger skeaks highly of some
other designers.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
> 7)Preference for kick-up rudderContinuing from my previous message, Gypsy and Windsprint feature
kick-up rudders, but really, they could be fitted on any design
you wanted if you were willing to go to the extra effort. And
if Windsprint's rig were too much for you, you could move the
mast partners aft a bit and use the standard "59" rig that all
of the other boats mentioned use instead; she's essentially a
bigger Teal.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)Have you considered the Windsprint? She has the capacity that
>
> 1)Relatively simply construction
> 2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small children
> 3)Able to be transported on top of car/truck
> 4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sail
> 5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)
> 6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboard
> 7)Preference for kick-up rudder
you want, is light and cartoppable, has a (funky off-center)
daggerboard rather than a leeboard, and is dead simple to build.
She's longer than the 12' that you specify, but probably quicker
to build than a Cartopper would be.
Requirement #5 might be a bit of an issue, but not if you're
prudent about shortening sail when the wind pipes up. She's
designed to be rowable, but you're left to place the oarlocks
yourself, and sit on a box to row her; that may or may not
satisfy your requirement #4. And I've got Windsprints on the
brain just now, so I'm hardly unbiased.
Another possibility might be the Brick, which is also dead simple,
and definitely has room for "four big men and a large, frightened
dog," let alone two parents with kids and a large picnic basket.
And her freeboard is reassuringly high; she'll keep you dry.
Brick's one major bug is that you need to row her standing up,
which might make her fail your requirement #4. She's very ugly,
but if you're feeling ambitious, the sight of Mom and Dad in a
Brick, with two kids in two Tortoises following behind like
ducklings could be very cute....
June Bug rows well, is easy to build, and could take two adults
and two kids (or two adults and a huge concrete mooring block),
but she has a leeboard, which you don't like. You could build
her with a daggerboard, though, if you were willing to put up
with a bit of extra complexity.
If you're willing to add that little bit of complexity (which
Cartopper would require anyway), you might look into the Gypsy,
which is the "cover boat" for _Build The New Instant Boats_.
She may be just right for you: she rows well, sails well, stays
dry, and you could take your kids along. She's a tiny bit more
complex than Brick or Windsprint, but still just fine for a
first-time builder. And some folks around here are building
sister ships, as evidenced by one of the recent threads on the
list.
All of the above boats except Brick appear, with full plans and
instructions, in _Build The New Instant Boats_; full-sized plans
are available from Payson or from PB&F. Full plans for Brick
appear in _Boats With An Open Mind_; PB&F has full-sized plans.
Other possibilities: Jim Michalak might have a suitable design
that could be ordered through Chuck's website. There might be
something suitable at bateau.com. Duckworks Magazine recently
ran a design contest that produced mostly boats too small to
meet your requirement #2, but the two winners are a bit longer
than the other entries, and might be suitable.
-- Sue --
(And one of these years, I *want* one of Entry #6, despite it
not having placed anywhere....)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, ljmatho wrote:
believe that there are any boats that fit four people and are still
cartoppable.
> My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)Teal is easier, Cartopper is not that tough.
> 1)Relatively simply construction
> 2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small childrenTeal can't come close to that. I don't think Cartopper can, either.
> 3)Able to be transported on top of car/truckEasier with Cartopper than Teal, possible with both.
> 4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sailBoth are fine.
> 5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)Both are fine.
> 6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboardDon't understand.
> 7)Preference for kick-up rudderPossible for either, not a stock design fo either.
> I'm hoping some of you may be able to compare the Teal and CartopperThere are many possiblew boats that meet some of your criteria. I do not
> to the above, as well as provide any alternate suggestions(ie other
> designs or modifications).
believe that there are any boats that fit four people and are still
cartoppable.
I am considering building my own boat soon and would like to get your
opinions as to selecting a design that best matches my requirements.
After doing much research, it appears that one of Bolger's designs,
such as Teal or Cartopper would work for me, but I would like to
confirm and possibly compare them and any other Bolger designs.
At this point I am interested in a small boat (12' and under) built
using simple construction techniques, such as Bolger's designs in
Payton's Instant Boats.
My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)
1)Relatively simply construction
2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small children
3)Able to be transported on top of car/truck
4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sail
5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)
6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboard
7)Preference for kick-up rudder
I'm hoping some of you may be able to compare the Teal and Cartopper
to the above, as well as provide any alternate suggestions(ie other
designs or modifications).
Regards
L.Matho
opinions as to selecting a design that best matches my requirements.
After doing much research, it appears that one of Bolger's designs,
such as Teal or Cartopper would work for me, but I would like to
confirm and possibly compare them and any other Bolger designs.
At this point I am interested in a small boat (12' and under) built
using simple construction techniques, such as Bolger's designs in
Payton's Instant Boats.
My requirements are: (Not in any specific order)
1)Relatively simply construction
2)Ideally able to hold 2 adults and 2 small children
3)Able to be transported on top of car/truck
4)Able to be used as either a row boat or w/sail
5)Minimal water in boat(under normal weather)
6)Preference for a)centerboard b)Daggerboard rather than longboard
7)Preference for kick-up rudder
I'm hoping some of you may be able to compare the Teal and Cartopper
to the above, as well as provide any alternate suggestions(ie other
designs or modifications).
Regards
L.Matho