Re: [bolger] Re: Otter photo
In a message dated 3/1/02 9:22:58 AM Central Standard Time,
dromasco@...writes:
of this concept. Credit for the concept is given to Uffa Fox. Per Bolger, Fox
invented this in 1933 as a successful rule-beater for sailing canoe
competition. The rule-makers intended to restrict rigs to cat ketches, but
didn't quite come right out and say it. Fox essentially created a sloop,
with the luff of the jib supported by the fore-mast instead of a tensioned
luff. Bolger said that Fox took just about every trophy on offer that season.
The rules were subsequently changed to permit sloop rigs with standing
rigging. Bolger says that this killed the concept as a racing rig, as the
smoother air flow over the thin wire luff gave the stayed rigs an insuperable
advantage in that context. In a non-racing context, I'd think that the
virtues of not needing standing rigging and big jib luff tensions would make
this an attractive idea.
Design #66 is the Chesapeake Bay "stick-up" rig. Bolger doesn't think it has
any notable virtues.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dromasco@...writes:
> I recall Otter as having a spar that rakedBolger's "100 Small Boat Rigs", design 67 "Aft-Raking Foremast", speaks well
> backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast,
> rather than being raked forward. I, too, wondered how well it worked.
>
of this concept. Credit for the concept is given to Uffa Fox. Per Bolger, Fox
invented this in 1933 as a successful rule-beater for sailing canoe
competition. The rule-makers intended to restrict rigs to cat ketches, but
didn't quite come right out and say it. Fox essentially created a sloop,
with the luff of the jib supported by the fore-mast instead of a tensioned
luff. Bolger said that Fox took just about every trophy on offer that season.
The rules were subsequently changed to permit sloop rigs with standing
rigging. Bolger says that this killed the concept as a racing rig, as the
smoother air flow over the thin wire luff gave the stayed rigs an insuperable
advantage in that context. In a non-racing context, I'd think that the
virtues of not needing standing rigging and big jib luff tensions would make
this an attractive idea.
Design #66 is the Chesapeake Bay "stick-up" rig. Bolger doesn't think it has
any notable virtues.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How embarrassing for me! I should have checked. Sorry. - PHV
> The Otter foremast and the stick up rig in Chapelle are raked in
> opposite directions.
The Otter foremast and the stick up rig in Chapelle are raked in
opposite directions.
opposite directions.
--- In bolger@y..., "roue20ca" <amoore@h...> wrote:
> There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
> dig it up and let you know which issue.
>
> Andy Moore
> Nova Scotia
> Canada
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
> > > The only innovation being
> > > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
> > > some of the weight out of the bow.
> >
> > The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It
was
> > used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
> Small
> > Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up
rig"
> > (page 292).
> >
> > PHV
I may be off base, but I recall Otter as having a spar that raked
backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast,
rather than being raked forward. I, too, wondered how well it worked.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: roue20ca [mailto:amoore@...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:10 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter photo
There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
dig it up and let you know which issue.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast,
rather than being raked forward. I, too, wondered how well it worked.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: roue20ca [mailto:amoore@...]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:10 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter photo
There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
dig it up and let you know which issue.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
> > The only innovation being
> > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
> > some of the weight out of the bow.
>
> The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
> used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
Small
> Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
> (page 292).
>
> PHV
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
dig it up and let you know which issue.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
dig it up and let you know which issue.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
> > The only innovation being
> > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
> > some of the weight out of the bow.
>
> The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
> used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
Small
> Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
> (page 292).
>
> PHV
> The only innovation beingThe forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
> the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
> some of the weight out of the bow.
used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American Small
Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
(page 292).
PHV
You can see in 'Small Boats'
" It is nothing more or less than an old-fashioned
cat-schooner with a jigger added, the only innovation being
the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
some of the weight out of the bow and, more important, to
improve the aerodynamics of the mainsail."
In the specs he calls it a cantilever rig.
Having once cut out the frames and planking for the Otter II
and set them up provisionally, I was eager to have a second
look at the picture.
It has to be the original design #231. The later model would
look beamier, have a wider transom and, I think, be a little
deeper. But the foremast's not in use that day.
Playing around with the picture at different sizes, I swear
I almost see a dark circle for the hole in the foredeck
where it goes. There is a pole or two lashed to starboard.
The drawn wooden spar has only a 2.5" maximum section and is
15' 11".
This is an interesting craft, an early effort to design a
complex instant boat. Jim Huxford's might be #2. The
original client lived on the north shore of Long Island. But
he's the one to ask for more.
Mark
"Harry W. James" wrote:
" It is nothing more or less than an old-fashioned
cat-schooner with a jigger added, the only innovation being
the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
some of the weight out of the bow and, more important, to
improve the aerodynamics of the mainsail."
In the specs he calls it a cantilever rig.
Having once cut out the frames and planking for the Otter II
and set them up provisionally, I was eager to have a second
look at the picture.
It has to be the original design #231. The later model would
look beamier, have a wider transom and, I think, be a little
deeper. But the foremast's not in use that day.
Playing around with the picture at different sizes, I swear
I almost see a dark circle for the hole in the foredeck
where it goes. There is a pole or two lashed to starboard.
The drawn wooden spar has only a 2.5" maximum section and is
15' 11".
This is an interesting craft, an early effort to design a
complex instant boat. Jim Huxford's might be #2. The
original client lived on the north shore of Long Island. But
he's the one to ask for more.
Mark
"Harry W. James" wrote:
>
> Thanks for the pix. The reason that got interested in the
> original
> design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is
> not on
> Huxford's boat. I don't know if this is an adaptation of
> an old idea,
> but I have never seen one before. He just kind of casually
> threw in
> something I consider fairly radical, like he often does,
> and I was
> wondering how it worked, not with any burning desire to
> build one.
> Looking at a lot of his designs when he has ventured far
> astray from
> convention is like reading an unfinished thriller, you are
> left
> wondering how it all came out.
>
> HJ
> brucehector wrote:
> >
> > I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo
> section of
> > this group. It's now pic #19.
> >
> > Bruce Hector
> >
>
Thanks for the pix. The reason that got interested in the original
design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is not on
Huxford's boat. I don't know if this is an adaptation of an old idea,
but I have never seen one before. He just kind of casually threw in
something I consider fairly radical, like he often does, and I was
wondering how it worked, not with any burning desire to build one.
Looking at a lot of his designs when he has ventured far astray from
convention is like reading an unfinished thriller, you are left
wondering how it all came out.
HJ
brucehector wrote:
design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is not on
Huxford's boat. I don't know if this is an adaptation of an old idea,
but I have never seen one before. He just kind of casually threw in
something I consider fairly radical, like he often does, and I was
wondering how it worked, not with any burning desire to build one.
Looking at a lot of his designs when he has ventured far astray from
convention is like reading an unfinished thriller, you are left
wondering how it all came out.
HJ
brucehector wrote:
>
> I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
> this group. It's now pic #19.
>
> Bruce Hector
>
Got it, nice photo and boat. She looks quite sleek, I think bet she
sail well.
Andy
Nova Scotia
Canada
sail well.
Andy
Nova Scotia
Canada
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some
direction.
>
> It's there, but Yahoo! only displays 16 photos at a time. Try
> clicking on "next 3" or "display all."
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
> Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some direction.It's there, but Yahoo! only displays 16 photos at a time. Try
clicking on "next 3" or "display all."
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some direction.
Can't wait to see it.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
Can't wait to see it.
Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
> this group. It's now pic #19.
>
> Bruce Hector
I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
this group. It's now pic #19.
Bruce Hector
this group. It's now pic #19.
Bruce Hector