Re: Windsprint, Teal, and expedition boats
Michalak counts about 25# per sheet of 1/4" ply.
I put together a Yellow Leaf once. While mine was a mess
from trying to use just drywall tape, it's amazing what you
get from just two sheets of plywood as per plan.
Mark
futabachan wrote:
I put together a Yellow Leaf once. While mine was a mess
from trying to use just drywall tape, it's amazing what you
get from just two sheets of plywood as per plan.
Mark
futabachan wrote:
>
> > Consider Yellow Leaf 15'6" x3' in the book Small Boats,
> which is
> > designed for quick construction and very light weight
> for portaging.
>
> _Small Boats_ by PCB? So PCB would have plans for it?
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Sue,
Not to toss "Crazy" around too loosely, Windsprint is too
heavy for what you describe. The Bolger estimate is about
100 pounds. With end enclosures and 10 pounds of foam, I can
just barely get mine on top of the car one end at a time.
Obviously it would take a very strong person to carry that
much weight through the jungle very far by themselves. The
awkward shape only makes it harder. But with a dolly, or a
person at each end it's easy.
A 1/8" plywood lapstreak boat appears in SBJ #29 -"An
ultralight rowing boat for home builders," 30 - 35 pounds
as drawn, about 80# cold molded or w/ Airex foam. It's flat
floored enough to carry a tiny sail.
Mark
futabachan wrote:
Not to toss "Crazy" around too loosely, Windsprint is too
heavy for what you describe. The Bolger estimate is about
100 pounds. With end enclosures and 10 pounds of foam, I can
just barely get mine on top of the car one end at a time.
Obviously it would take a very strong person to carry that
much weight through the jungle very far by themselves. The
awkward shape only makes it harder. But with a dolly, or a
person at each end it's easy.
A 1/8" plywood lapstreak boat appears in SBJ #29 -"An
ultralight rowing boat for home builders," 30 - 35 pounds
as drawn, about 80# cold molded or w/ Airex foam. It's flat
floored enough to carry a tiny sail.
Mark
futabachan wrote:
>
> A question for Windsprint and Teal builders on the list:
> how heavy
> is your boat?
>
> Windsprint looks like she ought to be comparable in weight
> to a
> 16' canoe (heck, it looks like it *is* a 16' canoe),
> unless I'm
> seriously underestimating the weight of the chine logs and
> gunwales, which opens the possibility of portaging her in
> the
> manner of a 16' canoe. Am I right, or am I crazy?
>
> What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be
> camp
> cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II)
> whitewater,
> and portaged in one trip. Windsprint looks just perfect
> for a
> two-person expedition, with one person portaging the boat
> and
> the other all the gear.
>
> Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition
> (or in
> a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue
> with 1/4"
> ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's
> site
> mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do
> they really
> weigh? And would an air mattress be sufficiently
> comfortable to
> let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking
> up?
>
> Are there other designs that might work for what I'm
> thinking of?
> Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very
> well
> suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big
> Tortoise?
>
> -- Sue --
> (thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to
> Salamanca this
> summer as a proof of concept)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
> punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
> all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
Or you could just lay the axle across the deck, attach cardboard
flappers with clothes-pegs and have a neet little pseudo side
wheeler. Imagine floating down a small set of rapids, .....
Wheeeeeeeee! The added advantage is rolling over any shoals or
sandbars you encounter.
Bruce Hector
flappers with clothes-pegs and have a neet little pseudo side
wheeler. Imagine floating down a small set of rapids, .....
Wheeeeeeeee! The added advantage is rolling over any shoals or
sandbars you encounter.
Bruce Hector
--- In bolger@y..., "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
least once before!
> removable, stowable wheels for boats.I find it mildly amazing that PCB hasn't designed such a boat at
least once before!
> Anyway -- about the wheels -- you could configure it with eitherOoo, mountain bike wheels. Now there's an idea -- and if I used
> pneumatic 14" wheelbarrow wheels, which would surely hop over most
> any bump in the trail, or 16" or 20" mountain bike type wheels.
big enough wheels and low enough mountings, the mount could be
just a simple little axel that the wheel mounts on, rather than
a bracket that raises and lowers, which means that I could
probably make it myself rather than buying. Hmm, and if someone
were getting rid of such a bike at a garage sale, this would
be just absolutely dirt cheap....
> Also, you'd have to make at least oneHeck, I could probably get away with just stowing them on the
> hatch opening big enough to accept the wheel diameter, but that's
> the easy part.
foredeck. Or one forward and one aft, but that gets in the way
of the tiller.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>>I've seen exactly this system advertised, and that was what IDang -- every time I think I've invented something, it turns out to
>>was thinking in terms of using.
be old hat.
Anyway -- about the wheels -- you could configure it with either
pneumatic 14" wheelbarrow wheels, which would surely hop over most
any bump in the trail, or 16" or 20" mountain bike type wheels.
Bigger diameter for less rolling resistance, etc. More danger of
bogging down in mud, maybe. Also, you'd have to make at least one
hatch opening big enough to accept the wheel diameter, but that's the
easy part.
Good luck!
Garth
We have the following dolly, or at least one that looks like it:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmen
br=201&prrfnbr=8340&outlet=
you will probably have to cut and paste the url to put it back
together.
I like it sufficiently that after I looked it up, I wrote a review for
the site. However, it is a lot of bucks. We use ours to move our Nymph
and Brick around, and it works well. WIth an extra shove we can even
go over a curb, and it doesn't seem to sink too badly in sand, if we
keep the tires at the recommended low pressure. Note that it knocks
down; all the pieces shown come apart.
As far as a suitable row/portage boat, I think oars are awfully nice
if you are facing any wind, when compared to paddles. I have rowed a
Brick upwind against a stiff wind for a mile, but I don't think I
could have made it with a canoe, based on some other experiences.
Rowing can maybe keep your center of gravity a bit lower, too, but I
suppose it's not a large difference. You could use paddles in rapids,
maybe.
If budget is no object, one of those Adirondack Guide boats, which
looks a lot like a canoe with oars, might be good. We watched the Hull
Snow Row recently, and those things are !@#$ fast, keeping up with
some long boats with lots of rowers. As I recall, one of the Guide
Boats was the first single in, ahead of the ocean shells, I think.
Maybe you can approximate one. Old canoes are easy to find, and you
could add oar outriggers. Of course canoes are awfully generic. Maybe
Yellow Leaf with oarlocks. However, an old Tupperware canoe reduces
your emotional involvement in rapids and tends to bounce or slide off
rocks without sticking, denting, or breaking (unlike an aluminum canoe
or a plywood boat). But Tupperware is heavy and floppy.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmen
br=201&prrfnbr=8340&outlet=
you will probably have to cut and paste the url to put it back
together.
I like it sufficiently that after I looked it up, I wrote a review for
the site. However, it is a lot of bucks. We use ours to move our Nymph
and Brick around, and it works well. WIth an extra shove we can even
go over a curb, and it doesn't seem to sink too badly in sand, if we
keep the tires at the recommended low pressure. Note that it knocks
down; all the pieces shown come apart.
As far as a suitable row/portage boat, I think oars are awfully nice
if you are facing any wind, when compared to paddles. I have rowed a
Brick upwind against a stiff wind for a mile, but I don't think I
could have made it with a canoe, based on some other experiences.
Rowing can maybe keep your center of gravity a bit lower, too, but I
suppose it's not a large difference. You could use paddles in rapids,
maybe.
If budget is no object, one of those Adirondack Guide boats, which
looks a lot like a canoe with oars, might be good. We watched the Hull
Snow Row recently, and those things are !@#$ fast, keeping up with
some long boats with lots of rowers. As I recall, one of the Guide
Boats was the first single in, ahead of the ocean shells, I think.
Maybe you can approximate one. Old canoes are easy to find, and you
could add oar outriggers. Of course canoes are awfully generic. Maybe
Yellow Leaf with oarlocks. However, an old Tupperware canoe reduces
your emotional involvement in rapids and tends to bounce or slide off
rocks without sticking, denting, or breaking (unlike an aluminum canoe
or a plywood boat). But Tupperware is heavy and floppy.
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
snip about wheels
> -- Sue --
> (now to decide whether I actually want chine logs, or just a
> taped seam)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
> even if the trail gets rough in areas, if you can...not to mention the convenience of leaving all the gear stowed
> roll it 2 miles and need to heave/carry it a couple hundred
> yards, you'd still be okay. If you had two people, one wouldn't
> be required to carry all the gear, as you could leave it stowed
> in the boat.
aboard in its watertight bag or locker, rather than having to
unload the boat, rig the portage yoke if it isn't permanently
installed, take the rudder off, have one partner help the other
get the boat on her, and then re-stow everything when the boat
goes back in the water. That's probably a better system if
you're doing a 20 mile portage over a continental divide, but
for lake-hopping, the wheels would be awfully nice.
I'd hoped to avoid the wheels because getting up steep slopes
and through mud will probably be harder, but they do have their
advantages.
> On a boat with a narrow bottom, you canHmm. Perhaps the boat could be tipped on its side for portaging
> have a faily small one-or-two wheel fixed-axle dolly that is still
> stowable. For my Piragua I have one that mounts right onto the skeg
> and is very narrow. It's on wider boats (like Windsprint or Mayfly)
> that you run into trouble if you want your wheels stowable.
with narrower wheels? But a boat like Windsprint that doesn't
have plumb sides might be awfully fussy in that configuration.
> Lately I've been envisioning a system involving two separateI've seen exactly this system advertised, and that was what I
> wheels, each attached to a sort of right angle (really an angle-
> matched-to-boat's-exterior-flare) wooden brace.
was thinking in terms of using. Plus, the idea of a boat with
landing gear is kind of neat. :-) The one problem with the
"landing gear" wheels is that they're small plastic things,
and not the big oversized balloon tires that you get on a
Seitech dolly, which would be great for rough terrain. But I
can't think of a feasible way to take the big balloon tires
along.
I have some glimmerings of ideas for how to make a "backpack
boat" for truly amphibious voyaging, but this solution, which
optimizes for in-the-water performance rather than out-of-the-
water convenience, is what I'd probably actually want anyway.
Thanks! This group is a great source of ideas....
-- Sue --
(now to decide whether I actually want chine logs, or just a
taped seam)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- In bolger@y..., Calvin Devries <hatrim@s...> wrote:
on removable, stowable wheels for boats. One of those systems would
open Susan's possibilities for portaging immensely -- even if the
trail gets rough in areas, if you can roll it 2 miles and need to
heave/carry it a couple hundred yards, you'd still be okay. If you
had two people, one wouldn't be required to carry all the gear, as
you could leave it stowed in the boat.
On boats with a daggerboard slot you can mount a dolly through the
slot (as I did with Gypsy). On a boat with a narrow bottom, you can
have a faily small one-or-two wheel fixed-axle dolly that is still
stowable. For my Piragua I have one that mounts right onto the skeg
and is very narrow. It's on wider boats (like Windsprint or Mayfly)
that you run into trouble if you want your wheels stowable. You could
mount a narrow dolly right at the transom, maybe attaching by the
rudder hardware, but then you need to carry much of the weight of the
boat up front. To locate a dolly amidships you either need a folding
system, or a fixed axle dolly, which wouldn't be stowable.
Lately I've been envisioning a system involving two separate wheels,
each attached to a sort of right angle (really an angle-matched-to-
boat's-exterior-flare) wooden brace. The boat's chine sits on the
bottom of the brace (maybe a plywood pad 8"X8"); the extended axle of
the wheel runs under that and is fastened solidly; the side of the
brace runs up the side of the boat just enough to keep the boat from
jumping off (maybe 4-6"?). The angle is reinforced outside by a
couple of stainless L brackets, and inside maybe with a fillet of
glass and epoxy. Or you could build it as a 3-D triangle, to hold the
axle more securely. ]\_
The two brace-and-wheel sets are then connected by hefty nylon
strapping. One underneath the boat, fixed in length to keep the
braces hard against the chine. Then up and across the top of the boat
with a ratchet or other adjustment to crank it tight. Thus you'd have
a "dolly" that could easily fit the widest boat (though it needs a
hard chine) and still stow in your flotation compartments. I *think*
this would work, though I'm no engineer and might be missing
something big.
Anyway, I got to thinking of this for a buddy who wants to keep a
Mayfly 14 (which we're about to build for him) at a house 1/2 mile
from the ocean, on Fire Island where no cars are allowed. The boat is
definitely too heavy to carry far, even for two people. But with this
system he could leisurely walk his boat through town, maybe let his
son ride in the boat for the trip, stow the wheels and launch, then
take it out anywhere and wheel it back home.
Garth
(Thinking too much about boats and not enough about work.)
> Some cleverness with a two-wheeled dollyI was thinking the same thing, Calvin. We had a good thread last year
> would make it portagable for the mile or two that you require.
on removable, stowable wheels for boats. One of those systems would
open Susan's possibilities for portaging immensely -- even if the
trail gets rough in areas, if you can roll it 2 miles and need to
heave/carry it a couple hundred yards, you'd still be okay. If you
had two people, one wouldn't be required to carry all the gear, as
you could leave it stowed in the boat.
On boats with a daggerboard slot you can mount a dolly through the
slot (as I did with Gypsy). On a boat with a narrow bottom, you can
have a faily small one-or-two wheel fixed-axle dolly that is still
stowable. For my Piragua I have one that mounts right onto the skeg
and is very narrow. It's on wider boats (like Windsprint or Mayfly)
that you run into trouble if you want your wheels stowable. You could
mount a narrow dolly right at the transom, maybe attaching by the
rudder hardware, but then you need to carry much of the weight of the
boat up front. To locate a dolly amidships you either need a folding
system, or a fixed axle dolly, which wouldn't be stowable.
Lately I've been envisioning a system involving two separate wheels,
each attached to a sort of right angle (really an angle-matched-to-
boat's-exterior-flare) wooden brace. The boat's chine sits on the
bottom of the brace (maybe a plywood pad 8"X8"); the extended axle of
the wheel runs under that and is fastened solidly; the side of the
brace runs up the side of the boat just enough to keep the boat from
jumping off (maybe 4-6"?). The angle is reinforced outside by a
couple of stainless L brackets, and inside maybe with a fillet of
glass and epoxy. Or you could build it as a 3-D triangle, to hold the
axle more securely. ]\_
The two brace-and-wheel sets are then connected by hefty nylon
strapping. One underneath the boat, fixed in length to keep the
braces hard against the chine. Then up and across the top of the boat
with a ratchet or other adjustment to crank it tight. Thus you'd have
a "dolly" that could easily fit the widest boat (though it needs a
hard chine) and still stow in your flotation compartments. I *think*
this would work, though I'm no engineer and might be missing
something big.
Anyway, I got to thinking of this for a buddy who wants to keep a
Mayfly 14 (which we're about to build for him) at a house 1/2 mile
from the ocean, on Fire Island where no cars are allowed. The boat is
definitely too heavy to carry far, even for two people. But with this
system he could leisurely walk his boat through town, maybe let his
son ride in the boat for the trip, stow the wheels and launch, then
take it out anywhere and wheel it back home.
Garth
(Thinking too much about boats and not enough about work.)
I'd just like to put in another plug for Dave Carnell's $200 Sailboat,
which is a modified Bolger Featherwind. Bolger says that the Featherwind
should weigh about 130 pounds, and Carnell's modifications would reduce
that to "a little over 100 pounds." Some cleverness with a two-wheeled dolly
would make it portagable for the mile or two that you require. By decking
over part of the boat forward and aft, you get floatation and stowage for
camp cruising, and still have an eight foot cockpit in which you roll out
your sleeping bag for camping. My guess is that this boat would meet
most of your needs except for that paddling in whitewater bit. More of a
row boat than a paddling boat. Essentially the boat is a highly rockered
dory type, so perhaps you could go down the whitewater using oars, drift
boat style?
Calvin Devries
Kitchener, Ontario
John Bell wrote:
which is a modified Bolger Featherwind. Bolger says that the Featherwind
should weigh about 130 pounds, and Carnell's modifications would reduce
that to "a little over 100 pounds." Some cleverness with a two-wheeled dolly
would make it portagable for the mile or two that you require. By decking
over part of the boat forward and aft, you get floatation and stowage for
camp cruising, and still have an eight foot cockpit in which you roll out
your sleeping bag for camping. My guess is that this boat would meet
most of your needs except for that paddling in whitewater bit. More of a
row boat than a paddling boat. Essentially the boat is a highly rockered
dory type, so perhaps you could go down the whitewater using oars, drift
boat style?
Calvin Devries
Kitchener, Ontario
John Bell wrote:
> I built my Windsprint exactly to plan: 1/4" AC Fir, pine wales, thwarts, and
> chine logs, no glass. It weighed about 100 lbs plus or minus. I've also got
> a 16' foot Blue Hole OCA canoe, and believe me the Windsprint is way bigger
> than the canoe. Windsprint has a lot more interior volume and surface area
> than the canoe.
>
> Also, Windsprint was miserable to paddle since it would not track worth a
> flip. It rowed ok, but I did not find it to be as satisfying a rowboat as my
> dory. It just didn't carry all that well.
>
> It was a great little sailboat though!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "futabachan" <futabachan@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:05 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Windsprint, Teal, and expedition boats
>
> | A question for Windsprint and Teal builders on the list: how heavy
> | is your boat?
> |
> | Windsprint looks like she ought to be comparable in weight to a
> | 16' canoe (heck, it looks like it *is* a 16' canoe), unless I'm
> | seriously underestimating the weight of the chine logs and
> | gunwales, which opens the possibility of portaging her in the
> | manner of a 16' canoe. Am I right, or am I crazy?
> |
> | What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be camp
> | cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II) whitewater,
> | and portaged in one trip. Windsprint looks just perfect for a
> | two-person expedition, with one person portaging the boat and
> | the other all the gear.
> |
> | Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition (or in
> | a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue with 1/4"
> | ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's site
> | mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do they really
> | weigh? And would an air mattress be sufficiently comfortable to
> | let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking up?
> |
> | Are there other designs that might work for what I'm thinking of?
> | Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very well
> | suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big Tortoise?
> |
> | -- Sue --
> | (thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to Salamanca this
> | summer as a proof of concept)
> |
> | --
> | Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> | - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Susan:
You might be interested in Matthew Long's Yellow Leaf page:
http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole/Pages/yleaf.html
Chuck
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You might be interested in Matthew Long's Yellow Leaf page:
http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole/Pages/yleaf.html
Chuck
> Consider Yellow Leaf 15'6" x3' in the book Small Boats, which is_Small Boats_ by PCB? So PCB would have plans for it? Thanks!
> designed for quick construction and very light weight for portaging.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I built my Windsprint exactly to plan: 1/4" AC Fir, pine wales, thwarts, and
chine logs, no glass. It weighed about 100 lbs plus or minus. I've also got
a 16' foot Blue Hole OCA canoe, and believe me the Windsprint is way bigger
than the canoe. Windsprint has a lot more interior volume and surface area
than the canoe.
Also, Windsprint was miserable to paddle since it would not track worth a
flip. It rowed ok, but I did not find it to be as satisfying a rowboat as my
dory. It just didn't carry all that well.
It was a great little sailboat though!
chine logs, no glass. It weighed about 100 lbs plus or minus. I've also got
a 16' foot Blue Hole OCA canoe, and believe me the Windsprint is way bigger
than the canoe. Windsprint has a lot more interior volume and surface area
than the canoe.
Also, Windsprint was miserable to paddle since it would not track worth a
flip. It rowed ok, but I did not find it to be as satisfying a rowboat as my
dory. It just didn't carry all that well.
It was a great little sailboat though!
----- Original Message -----
From: "futabachan" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:05 PM
Subject: [bolger] Windsprint, Teal, and expedition boats
| A question for Windsprint and Teal builders on the list: how heavy
| is your boat?
|
| Windsprint looks like she ought to be comparable in weight to a
| 16' canoe (heck, it looks like it *is* a 16' canoe), unless I'm
| seriously underestimating the weight of the chine logs and
| gunwales, which opens the possibility of portaging her in the
| manner of a 16' canoe. Am I right, or am I crazy?
|
| What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be camp
| cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II) whitewater,
| and portaged in one trip. Windsprint looks just perfect for a
| two-person expedition, with one person portaging the boat and
| the other all the gear.
|
| Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition (or in
| a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue with 1/4"
| ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's site
| mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do they really
| weigh? And would an air mattress be sufficiently comfortable to
| let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking up?
|
| Are there other designs that might work for what I'm thinking of?
| Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very well
| suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big Tortoise?
|
| -- Sue --
| (thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to Salamanca this
| summer as a proof of concept)
|
| --
| Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
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> Maybe a dumb question, but where are Mayville and Salamanca?In Western New York. Mayville is at the head of Chautauqua Lake;
Salamanca is on the Allegheny River above the Allegeany Reservoir.
One wouldn't normally think of sailing from one place to the
other, which is why I'm keen to try it. :-)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Preview Yellow Leaf atThe free canoe design at www.bateau.com is similar.
>http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole/Pages/yleaf.html
PHV
Yes, PBB&F can sell you the plans, but Yellow Leaf is so simple and
the details in Small Boats so good that you can build from the book.
I gave considerable thought to madking one and almost succombed to
the madness in Florida this Jan. with my Swiss Army knife, some epoxy
and ACX ply. Unfortunately sanity prevailed and we bought a cruise to
Cozumel instead. I believe I could have had one floating in two days
of work, without power tools.
Bruce Hector
the details in Small Boats so good that you can build from the book.
I gave considerable thought to madking one and almost succombed to
the madness in Florida this Jan. with my Swiss Army knife, some epoxy
and ACX ply. Unfortunately sanity prevailed and we bought a cruise to
Cozumel instead. I believe I could have had one floating in two days
of work, without power tools.
Bruce Hector
Maybe a dumb question, but where are Mayville and Salamanca?
Ralph
Ralph
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> (thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to Salamanca this
> summer as a proof of concept)
> Consider Yellow Leaf 15'6" x3' in the book Small Boats, which is_Small Boats_ by PCB? So PCB would have plans for it? Thanks!
> designed for quick construction and very light weight for portaging.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Consider Yellow Leaf 15'6" x3' in the book Small Boats, which is
designed for quick construction and very light weight for portaging.
Kind of like a Teal, without chine logs. If you fear it to be too
flimsy, consider using filleted chines and/or high performance cloth
like Kevlar on the bottom.
designed for quick construction and very light weight for portaging.
Kind of like a Teal, without chine logs. If you fear it to be too
flimsy, consider using filleted chines and/or high performance cloth
like Kevlar on the bottom.
>What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be campI spent a lot of time paddling class IV and V whitewater. I'd expect
>cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II) whitewater,
you'd need to be pretty sharp to keep a teal or windsprint from
swamping in class II rapids. My teal is a bitch with even a modest
amount of water in her. As a point of reference, out West we have
something called a McKinzey Drift Boat -- more or less a dory that
we'd use to fish rivers like the Rogue or Klamath (or McKinzey). More
flare, rocker and freeboard than a teal or windsprint. Class III is
about the limit with those boats. Hotshots run class IV and sometimes
make it.
>Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition (or inMy teal is 1/4" fir throughout, taped seams, 5 oz glass on the
>a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue with 1/4"
>ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's site
>mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do they really
>weigh?
bottom. I can almost lift it myself. I regulary accept help dragging
her up the dune after fishing. I can't begin to imagine a serious
portage. Great boat, just not for portaging.
And would an air mattress be sufficiently comfortable to
>let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking up?Not sufficient for me.
>Are there other designs that might work for what I'm thinking of?A canoe
>Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very well
>suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big Tortoise?
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
It's funny you bring up Windsprint being like a "canoe". I was just
thinking last night that this design could be adapted to a "canoe
yawl" by just changing the rig to a spritsail and modifying the
thwart/maststep positions.
Anyone else out there have this fantasy?
I really love a canoe yawl boat. Anyone out there build any of
Bolger's canoe yawls(#596 & #614)?
Jeff
thinking last night that this design could be adapted to a "canoe
yawl" by just changing the rig to a spritsail and modifying the
thwart/maststep positions.
Anyone else out there have this fantasy?
I really love a canoe yawl boat. Anyone out there build any of
Bolger's canoe yawls(#596 & #614)?
Jeff
A question for Windsprint and Teal builders on the list: how heavy
is your boat?
Windsprint looks like she ought to be comparable in weight to a
16' canoe (heck, it looks like it *is* a 16' canoe), unless I'm
seriously underestimating the weight of the chine logs and
gunwales, which opens the possibility of portaging her in the
manner of a 16' canoe. Am I right, or am I crazy?
What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be camp
cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II) whitewater,
and portaged in one trip. Windsprint looks just perfect for a
two-person expedition, with one person portaging the boat and
the other all the gear.
Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition (or in
a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue with 1/4"
ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's site
mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do they really
weigh? And would an air mattress be sufficiently comfortable to
let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking up?
Are there other designs that might work for what I'm thinking of?
Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very well
suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big Tortoise?
-- Sue --
(thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to Salamanca this
summer as a proof of concept)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
is your boat?
Windsprint looks like she ought to be comparable in weight to a
16' canoe (heck, it looks like it *is* a 16' canoe), unless I'm
seriously underestimating the weight of the chine logs and
gunwales, which opens the possibility of portaging her in the
manner of a 16' canoe. Am I right, or am I crazy?
What I'm really after is an "expedition boat" that can be camp
cruised, slept aboard, paddled through mild (class I/II) whitewater,
and portaged in one trip. Windsprint looks just perfect for a
two-person expedition, with one person portaging the boat and
the other all the gear.
Teal looks like she'd fit the bill for a solo expedition (or in
a flotilla), especially if you built her stitch-and-glue with 1/4"
ply rather than the 3/8" that the plans specify. Payson's site
mentions 93 lbs as the weight for one, but how much do they really
weigh? And would an air mattress be sufficiently comfortable to
let you ignore the bottom of the amidships frame poking up?
Are there other designs that might work for what I'm thinking of?
Brick looks like it might work, but it isn't really very well
suited for rowing significant distances. Perhaps a Big Tortoise?
-- Sue --
(thinking of trying a test cruise from Mayville to Salamanca this
summer as a proof of concept)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>