Re: reasons to glass a mast
--- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
Sorry Richard,just kidding around......it comes from breathing too
much Canadian air!
Can't really help although a quick call to your lumber yard might get
you headed in the right direction. However,just read that you do
appear to have a good supply of red cedar.Don't know if this is too
soft for masts or what.Perhaps someone else in the group has been up
that road before and can give better advice.
Best of Luck!!
Peter Lenihan
>Oklahoma,eh? Don't suppose you got no beavers,eh?
> Now, where am I supposed to get spruce here in OK?
Sorry Richard,just kidding around......it comes from breathing too
much Canadian air!
Can't really help although a quick call to your lumber yard might get
you headed in the right direction. However,just read that you do
appear to have a good supply of red cedar.Don't know if this is too
soft for masts or what.Perhaps someone else in the group has been up
that road before and can give better advice.
Best of Luck!!
Peter Lenihan
Won't be reducing the scantlings. The cloth won't add much to the
width, will build the mast before I build the tabernacle, and size
the tabernacle to fit the mast w/glass.
Now, where am I supposed to get spruce here in OK?
Anybody want to mail me one?
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
width, will build the mast before I build the tabernacle, and size
the tabernacle to fit the mast w/glass.
Now, where am I supposed to get spruce here in OK?
Anybody want to mail me one?
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
> Richard,use
> Have you thought of using spruce? Not Stika but say white or
> black? I have used these on my boats with great results and if you
> shop carefully you can get some old growth(tight rings) with
> relatively few knots.Furthermore,if you have nice dry wood,you can
> an epoxy sealer to saturate the wood before varnishing.Seems tohelp
> alot in preventing big splinters to snag things.comfort
> But,who am I to talk.......I prefer and use sail track for
> trouble free hoisting and" fast as you like" dousing from the
> of the cockpit.working
> If you are going to glass,however,I would not reduce the
> scantlings of the mast called for by the designer for two reasons:
> 1) A well engineered spar(built by amateurs) relies on calculations
> based on"ideal"numbers from the designer.Amateurs rarely are
> with perfect(and I do mean perfect) lumber or under perfectlaboratory
> conditions for laminating.Hang onto all the natural fiber you can!vehicle.I
> 2) The slight extra weight of the cloth and resin will not be that
> much of a detriment unless you are building a cutting edge
> can just barely recall reading an article that spoke of theadvantages
> of some weight aloft and had a picture of a fellow actually sailingthe
> his boat from about 2/3rds of the way UP his mast.Somewhere in the
> article was mention too of how an anchor was sometimes hoisted up
> mast to get the boat to ride smoothly.........I just wish I could
> remember where the hell I saw this!!
>
> My 2 cents,
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,playing on the computer while the boss ain't
> lookin',from the shores of the windy St.Lawrence......
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
> > Let me count them...
> >
> > 1) prevent checking.
> >
> >
> >
> > 3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
> > (weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
> >
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments?
Richard,
Have you thought of using spruce? Not Stika but say white or
black? I have used these on my boats with great results and if you
shop carefully you can get some old growth(tight rings) with
relatively few knots.Furthermore,if you have nice dry wood,you can use
an epoxy sealer to saturate the wood before varnishing.Seems to help
alot in preventing big splinters to snag things.
But,who am I to talk.......I prefer and use sail track for
trouble free hoisting and" fast as you like" dousing from the comfort
of the cockpit.
If you are going to glass,however,I would not reduce the
scantlings of the mast called for by the designer for two reasons:
1) A well engineered spar(built by amateurs) relies on calculations
based on"ideal"numbers from the designer.Amateurs rarely are working
with perfect(and I do mean perfect) lumber or under perfect laboratory
conditions for laminating.Hang onto all the natural fiber you can!
2) The slight extra weight of the cloth and resin will not be that
much of a detriment unless you are building a cutting edge vehicle.I
can just barely recall reading an article that spoke of the advantages
of some weight aloft and had a picture of a fellow actually sailing
his boat from about 2/3rds of the way UP his mast.Somewhere in the
article was mention too of how an anchor was sometimes hoisted up the
mast to get the boat to ride smoothly.........I just wish I could
remember where the hell I saw this!!
My 2 cents,
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,playing on the computer while the boss ain't
lookin',from the shores of the windy St.Lawrence......
Have you thought of using spruce? Not Stika but say white or
black? I have used these on my boats with great results and if you
shop carefully you can get some old growth(tight rings) with
relatively few knots.Furthermore,if you have nice dry wood,you can use
an epoxy sealer to saturate the wood before varnishing.Seems to help
alot in preventing big splinters to snag things.
But,who am I to talk.......I prefer and use sail track for
trouble free hoisting and" fast as you like" dousing from the comfort
of the cockpit.
If you are going to glass,however,I would not reduce the
scantlings of the mast called for by the designer for two reasons:
1) A well engineered spar(built by amateurs) relies on calculations
based on"ideal"numbers from the designer.Amateurs rarely are working
with perfect(and I do mean perfect) lumber or under perfect laboratory
conditions for laminating.Hang onto all the natural fiber you can!
2) The slight extra weight of the cloth and resin will not be that
much of a detriment unless you are building a cutting edge vehicle.I
can just barely recall reading an article that spoke of the advantages
of some weight aloft and had a picture of a fellow actually sailing
his boat from about 2/3rds of the way UP his mast.Somewhere in the
article was mention too of how an anchor was sometimes hoisted up the
mast to get the boat to ride smoothly.........I just wish I could
remember where the hell I saw this!!
My 2 cents,
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,playing on the computer while the boss ain't
lookin',from the shores of the windy St.Lawrence......
--- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
> Let me count them...
>
> 1) prevent checking.
>
>
>
> 3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
> (weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
>
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
That's what I have, red cedar from the closeout sale I got the MDO
from.
It is slated for the top of the mast, and I'm considering making the
gaff (yard arm sounds so much cooler, why can't I start calling the
gaff this?) ala birdsmoth, 1/2" wall thickness, "Great stuff" plugs
on the ends, (2) 1.4oz glass "checking layer"....
Might even consider going thinner with the wood and splurging for
carbon fiber. Gaff is the most bang for the buck for weight savings.
May even go high tech and use aluminium... probably not, though.
from.
It is slated for the top of the mast, and I'm considering making the
gaff (yard arm sounds so much cooler, why can't I start calling the
gaff this?) ala birdsmoth, 1/2" wall thickness, "Great stuff" plugs
on the ends, (2) 1.4oz glass "checking layer"....
Might even consider going thinner with the wood and splurging for
carbon fiber. Gaff is the most bang for the buck for weight savings.
May even go high tech and use aluminium... probably not, though.
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> Richard:
>
> The only decently priced clear woods available around here are
Western Red Cedar and Southern Yellow Pine. Since the pine is really
heavy, I have been using the Cedar and covering it with glass. I
think the combination is as strong as Fir, and it has all the other
advantages that you mentioned.
>
> Chuck
> Let me count them...
>
> 1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on
my
> AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the
weather
> the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the
ties
> when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
> wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
> grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have
prevented
> this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
> direction, of 1.34oz
>
> 2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
> worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
> halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
> mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to
SS
> eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut
on
> the diaganal.
>
> 3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
> (weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
>
> 4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass
would
> have helped prevent this.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Richard:
The only decently priced clear woods available around here are Western Red Cedar and Southern Yellow Pine. Since the pine is really heavy, I have been using the Cedar and covering it with glass. I think the combination is as strong as Fir, and it has all the other advantages that you mentioned.
Chuck
Let me count them...
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The only decently priced clear woods available around here are Western Red Cedar and Southern Yellow Pine. Since the pine is really heavy, I have been using the Cedar and covering it with glass. I think the combination is as strong as Fir, and it has all the other advantages that you mentioned.
Chuck
Let me count them...
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
least for the top.
pin, with 4" plates on the mast, 4" plates on the tabernacle (next to
the mast). The hole in the mast will be slightly oversized, so the
bearing force will be on the plate which will be connected to the
mast (over a FG reinforced area) by a dozen or so countersunk ss
screws. Pin will be retained by wooden covers over the pin holes.
Retainment will be a hinged gate that will drop down in a slot.
Similar to Vincenzo's setup
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco4.2/article.htm
but pivoting on a fore-aft axis (so I can't loose the gate), and made
out of cast aluminum.
May do away with the hinge and just tie a rope to the thing so when I
drop it (which WILL HAPPEN) it won't go to the briney deep.
Will have retaining pins so the thing can't jump out and walk away,
too.
> There's a lot of sideways pull on the peak halyard block andfastener, as
> well as the downward and aft pull. Jim Slakov told me that one ofhis
> masthead eyebolts snapped right off (but didn't say anything aboutproblems
> in the wood).umm. What size eyebolt? May reconsider and go with the lashings, at
>
least for the top.
> Are you going to put a bushing in your mast for the pivot pin? Orwill
> there be plates on the sides? Randy Wheating is also building atabernacle,
> I'm not quite sure how he's doing it.I'm stealing the setup from Vincenzo. I'm using a 3/4" 304 ss pivot
>
pin, with 4" plates on the mast, 4" plates on the tabernacle (next to
the mast). The hole in the mast will be slightly oversized, so the
bearing force will be on the plate which will be connected to the
mast (over a FG reinforced area) by a dozen or so countersunk ss
screws. Pin will be retained by wooden covers over the pin holes.
Retainment will be a hinged gate that will drop down in a slot.
Similar to Vincenzo's setup
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco4.2/article.htm
but pivoting on a fore-aft axis (so I can't loose the gate), and made
out of cast aluminum.
May do away with the hinge and just tie a rope to the thing so when I
drop it (which WILL HAPPEN) it won't go to the briney deep.
Will have retaining pins so the thing can't jump out and walk away,
too.
> Interesting article you posted about reinforcing around bolts.weather
>
> Jamie Orr
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rlspell2000 [mailto:richard@s...]
> Sent: March 11, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] reasons to glass a mast
>
>
> Let me count them...
>
> 1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
> AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the
> the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the tiesprevented
> when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
> wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
> grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have
> this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one eachlike
> direction, of 1.34oz
>
> 2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
> worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
> halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
> mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
> eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
> the diaganal.
>
> 3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
> (weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
>
> 4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
> have helped prevent this.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Agree on bolts, I'm paranoid about putting fasteners in the mast. So far
the only ones are three screws holding thumbcleats that in turn hold the
lashings for the halyard and topping lift blocks at the masthead, and some
1/2" copper nails holding the chafing strips at the boom jaws. I thought
for a long time before I put in those nails, but they're very short and
surrounded by epoxy, so I don't see how water could get in that way.
There's a lot of sideways pull on the peak halyard block and fastener, as
well as the downward and aft pull. Jim Slakov told me that one of his
masthead eyebolts snapped right off (but didn't say anything about problems
in the wood).
Are you going to put a bushing in your mast for the pivot pin? Or will
there be plates on the sides? Randy Wheating is also building a tabernacle,
I'm not quite sure how he's doing it.
Interesting article you posted about reinforcing around bolts.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: rlspell2000 [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: March 11, 2002 10:48 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] reasons to glass a mast
Let me count them...
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
the only ones are three screws holding thumbcleats that in turn hold the
lashings for the halyard and topping lift blocks at the masthead, and some
1/2" copper nails holding the chafing strips at the boom jaws. I thought
for a long time before I put in those nails, but they're very short and
surrounded by epoxy, so I don't see how water could get in that way.
There's a lot of sideways pull on the peak halyard block and fastener, as
well as the downward and aft pull. Jim Slakov told me that one of his
masthead eyebolts snapped right off (but didn't say anything about problems
in the wood).
Are you going to put a bushing in your mast for the pivot pin? Or will
there be plates on the sides? Randy Wheating is also building a tabernacle,
I'm not quite sure how he's doing it.
Interesting article you posted about reinforcing around bolts.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: rlspell2000 [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: March 11, 2002 10:48 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] reasons to glass a mast
Let me count them...
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Let me count them...
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?
1) prevent checking. I have a nice dough fir birdsmouth mast on my
AF2 (which if for sale, BTW). After a couple of years in the weather
the varished birdsmouthed dough fir mast started grabbing the ties
when I was attempting to hoist the sail. Investigation showed the
wood was checking and small spinters were developing that were
grabbing the rope. One layer of very light cloth would have prevented
this. going to wrap the new mast in two diaganal layers, one each
direction, of 1.34oz
2) strengthen through bolt areas. On the mast for AF2, I was so
worried about through bolts causing failure, I didn't use ANY. My
halyard pulleys are attached using rope and icecicle hitches. New
mast requires pivot pin, and I'm going to attach the pulleys to SS
eys, though the mast. areas to be reinforced with 8oz cloth cut on
the diaganal.
3) with glass reinforcemnt, can use a lighter wood up topside.
(weight savings taken away by the glass and epoxy, I know)
4) Saw one mast fail by developing a split lengthwise. Glass would
have helped prevent this.
Thoughts? Comments?