RE: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
I used finishing (wax contained) resin to sheathe my canoe. No problem with
bonding between cured and new layers, just sand the cured resin. The bond
between the layers of resin will far exceed the bond between the resin and
plywood.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
In a message dated 3/15/02 7:02:52 AM Central Standard Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
when exposed to air. Wax is needed in the final coat to exclude air and
permit a full cure. I used un-waxed polyester resin and was provided with a
small quantity of the appropriate wax to mix in my finishing coat. I'm
pretty
sure I got this receipe straight out of the MN Canoe Assn's guide to
building
strippers. I'm not sure it would be advisable to use waxed resin for any but
the last coat, as it might inhibit bonding between applications, unless you
can sheath much faster than I can. I suspect that waxed resin is intended
for
industrial applications where the whole lay-up can be done so quickly that
the wax can migrate to the surface before the goop starts to set. I don't
know about polyester being less "waterproof" than epoxy, but I'm skeptical
that either is fully impermeable by small, highly polar and mobile molecules
of di-hyrogen oxide. Polyester is (IMHO) a perfectly adequate barrier to
moisture migration in a trailered or car-topped boat. Polyester definitely
needs paint or varnish to protect it from UV.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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bonding between cured and new layers, just sand the cured resin. The bond
between the layers of resin will far exceed the bond between the resin and
plywood.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:28 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
In a message dated 3/15/02 7:02:52 AM Central Standard Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
> but polyesterUn-waxed polyester resin (at least the stuff I've used) will not fully cure
> will not cure on top of epoxy. Of course if your polyester has wax and
> you don't clean it off, nothing will stick.
>
when exposed to air. Wax is needed in the final coat to exclude air and
permit a full cure. I used un-waxed polyester resin and was provided with a
small quantity of the appropriate wax to mix in my finishing coat. I'm
pretty
sure I got this receipe straight out of the MN Canoe Assn's guide to
building
strippers. I'm not sure it would be advisable to use waxed resin for any but
the last coat, as it might inhibit bonding between applications, unless you
can sheath much faster than I can. I suspect that waxed resin is intended
for
industrial applications where the whole lay-up can be done so quickly that
the wax can migrate to the surface before the goop starts to set. I don't
know about polyester being less "waterproof" than epoxy, but I'm skeptical
that either is fully impermeable by small, highly polar and mobile molecules
of di-hyrogen oxide. Polyester is (IMHO) a perfectly adequate barrier to
moisture migration in a trailered or car-topped boat. Polyester definitely
needs paint or varnish to protect it from UV.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
In a message dated 3/15/02 7:02:52 AM Central Standard Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
when exposed to air. Wax is needed in the final coat to exclude air and
permit a full cure. I used un-waxed polyester resin and was provided with a
small quantity of the appropriate wax to mix in my finishing coat. I'm pretty
sure I got this receipe straight out of the MN Canoe Assn's guide to building
strippers. I'm not sure it would be advisable to use waxed resin for any but
the last coat, as it might inhibit bonding between applications, unless you
can sheath much faster than I can. I suspect that waxed resin is intended for
industrial applications where the whole lay-up can be done so quickly that
the wax can migrate to the surface before the goop starts to set. I don't
know about polyester being less "waterproof" than epoxy, but I'm skeptical
that either is fully impermeable by small, highly polar and mobile molecules
of di-hyrogen oxide. Polyester is (IMHO) a perfectly adequate barrier to
moisture migration in a trailered or car-topped boat. Polyester definitely
needs paint or varnish to protect it from UV.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lincolnr@...writes:
> but polyesterUn-waxed polyester resin (at least the stuff I've used) will not fully cure
> will not cure on top of epoxy. Of course if your polyester has wax and
> you don't clean it off, nothing will stick.
>
when exposed to air. Wax is needed in the final coat to exclude air and
permit a full cure. I used un-waxed polyester resin and was provided with a
small quantity of the appropriate wax to mix in my finishing coat. I'm pretty
sure I got this receipe straight out of the MN Canoe Assn's guide to building
strippers. I'm not sure it would be advisable to use waxed resin for any but
the last coat, as it might inhibit bonding between applications, unless you
can sheath much faster than I can. I suspect that waxed resin is intended for
industrial applications where the whole lay-up can be done so quickly that
the wax can migrate to the surface before the goop starts to set. I don't
know about polyester being less "waterproof" than epoxy, but I'm skeptical
that either is fully impermeable by small, highly polar and mobile molecules
of di-hyrogen oxide. Polyester is (IMHO) a perfectly adequate barrier to
moisture migration in a trailered or car-topped boat. Polyester definitely
needs paint or varnish to protect it from UV.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You don't mention polyester fumes? In a crowded neighborhood on a calm
day, use of polyester could probably get you tarred and feathered.
Whether or not the fumes from polyester are toxic, they smell AWFUL! A
company I worked at almost got kicked out of a building for using this
stuff, and thereafter, any time there was a funny smell, it was
automatically our fault, even if it was really coming from the
catering business downstairs.
Check your sources again. The ones I've seen here and everywhere else
are consistent: epoxy will cure on top of polyester, but polyester
will not cure on top of epoxy. Of course if your polyester has wax and
you don't clean it off, nothing will stick.
day, use of polyester could probably get you tarred and feathered.
Whether or not the fumes from polyester are toxic, they smell AWFUL! A
company I worked at almost got kicked out of a building for using this
stuff, and thereafter, any time there was a funny smell, it was
automatically our fault, even if it was really coming from the
catering business downstairs.
Check your sources again. The ones I've seen here and everywhere else
are consistent: epoxy will cure on top of polyester, but polyester
will not cure on top of epoxy. Of course if your polyester has wax and
you don't clean it off, nothing will stick.
--- In bolger@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
> I've used both and each has its merrits and its pitfalls. With
epoxy,
> it is cost and (for some) fumes, and with polyester it is that it is
> kinky to work with in heat (but it needs heat to cook off) and the
> fact that it isn't waterproof.
snip
>I have
> heard that polyester and epoxy will not stick together, and I have
> also read to use epoxy to fix (polyester) fiberglass boats! snip
I've used both and each has its merrits and its pitfalls. With epoxy,
it is cost and (for some) fumes, and with polyester it is that it is
kinky to work with in heat (but it needs heat to cook off) and the
fact that it isn't waterproof. If you like things "bright", use epoxy
or cover polyester with Spar varnish, a couple coats at least, to
waterproof. With paint you can use either. Personally, intended use
of the boat and current finances dictate which I will use. I have
heard that polyester and epoxy will not stick together, and I have
also read to use epoxy to fix (polyester) fiberglass boats! What I
would do is take the epoxy, do up a piece of PW with it and then coat
it with 'glass and polyester. Let the whole shebang cure and then
torture test it. If it meets your requirements.... use it in good
health, if not, buy the wife a flower, and decide to use one or the
other. My opinion, FWIW!
it is cost and (for some) fumes, and with polyester it is that it is
kinky to work with in heat (but it needs heat to cook off) and the
fact that it isn't waterproof. If you like things "bright", use epoxy
or cover polyester with Spar varnish, a couple coats at least, to
waterproof. With paint you can use either. Personally, intended use
of the boat and current finances dictate which I will use. I have
heard that polyester and epoxy will not stick together, and I have
also read to use epoxy to fix (polyester) fiberglass boats! What I
would do is take the epoxy, do up a piece of PW with it and then coat
it with 'glass and polyester. Let the whole shebang cure and then
torture test it. If it meets your requirements.... use it in good
health, if not, buy the wife a flower, and decide to use one or the
other. My opinion, FWIW!
--- In bolger@y..., schmittc@c... wrote:
> I am about to start the construction of a plywood
> boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
> the method that I use is pretty well governed by
> economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
> States at competitive prices, however, freight here
> to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
> duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
> a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
>
> My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
> use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
> surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
> After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
> exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
>
> Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
> better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
> Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
> appreciated.
>
> Clayton Schmitt
> Boquete, Chiriqui
> Republic of Panama
> schmittc@c...
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Orr, Jamie wrote:
including Systemthree.com, will tell you that normal inhalation conditions
pose no significant danger.
But don't get sensitized.
> Epoxy fumes do exist, and denial is not adequate protection. From aThis is not untrue. However, a quick read of MSDS from various sites,
> quick check of three websites a minute ago, it appears that fumes
> normally do not pose a significant threat, but if you become
> sensitized to epoxy by skin contact, or maybe breathing the dust as
> you sand, then the fumes can cause a reaction.
including Systemthree.com, will tell you that normal inhalation conditions
pose no significant danger.
But don't get sensitized.
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, recree8 wrote:
because it's not volatile.
> Crawling inside a kayak hull and using any volatileI agree, and that's why you should use epoxy in such an application,
> substance is very dangerous in my view.
because it's not volatile.
If the plywood is not too dense, use polyester. I built a Nymph 3 seasons
ago from New Zealand BC pine and used polyester. The resin penetrated very
well because the wood is very porous and the boat has lasted well stored
outside, painted in ordinary house latex paint. No blisters or peeling. It
will have almost have to lift the first layer of plywood. Payson (the master
builder) used polyester and thinned the first coat down to get good
penetration of the wood (using good, dense plywood) before laying up the
next coats and cloth.(see "Build the Instant Boats" book by Payson). If your
boat lives out of the water and you want to do it at a reasonable cost, then
by all means use polyester. Epoxy has its place and polyester has its place.
BUT don't cover epoxy with polyester.
regards
Paul
ago from New Zealand BC pine and used polyester. The resin penetrated very
well because the wood is very porous and the boat has lasted well stored
outside, painted in ordinary house latex paint. No blisters or peeling. It
will have almost have to lift the first layer of plywood. Payson (the master
builder) used polyester and thinned the first coat down to get good
penetration of the wood (using good, dense plywood) before laying up the
next coats and cloth.(see "Build the Instant Boats" book by Payson). If your
boat lives out of the water and you want to do it at a reasonable cost, then
by all means use polyester. Epoxy has its place and polyester has its place.
BUT don't cover epoxy with polyester.
regards
Paul
Lab Safety sells these real cheap polyethylene (or some such) gloves
that are terrible by themselves but make great liners under latex. I
get holes in the latex but very seldom in the liners, and they're thin
so I don't lose much feel. They seem to be less permeable to solvents
as well. 500 in a hand shapped cardboard container (sorta).
that are terrible by themselves but make great liners under latex. I
get holes in the latex but very seldom in the liners, and they're thin
so I don't lose much feel. They seem to be less permeable to solvents
as well. 500 in a hand shapped cardboard container (sorta).
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
snip
> I'm indebted to whover suggested the triple layers of gloves.
Because
> if the phone doesn't ring, I guarantee that your nose WILL itch as
> soon as you're covered in epoxy. Just strip off the outer pair and
> scratch away. Easy.
>
> Bruce Hector
> www.can-you-scratch-this-for-me.can
Paul,
I believe smell has nothing to do with it. Take carbon dioxide as an
example. And the effect is cumulative over a period of time.
Sensitivity to second hand smoke is actually one of the symtoms if
I'm not mistaken, but is also a symtom of several other portential
allergy buidups. Crawling inside a kayak hull and using any volatile
substance is very dangerous in my view.
And a carbon mask doesn't really help because the molecules in epoxy
pass right through carbon filters as well as paper. They are only
good for catching the dust. A continuous supply of fresh air is
probably the best general practice. A fresh air respirator the safest
choice of all, for using any volatile substances.
The long term effects are that it screws up ones immune system like a
lot of chemicals and can lead to many complications later in life,
including cancer. Brain damage I don't believe has ever been detected
in people who build their own boats. Probably due to the lack of
material to perform research on;-))
Nels
(It's melting out!)
-- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
I believe smell has nothing to do with it. Take carbon dioxide as an
example. And the effect is cumulative over a period of time.
Sensitivity to second hand smoke is actually one of the symtoms if
I'm not mistaken, but is also a symtom of several other portential
allergy buidups. Crawling inside a kayak hull and using any volatile
substance is very dangerous in my view.
And a carbon mask doesn't really help because the molecules in epoxy
pass right through carbon filters as well as paper. They are only
good for catching the dust. A continuous supply of fresh air is
probably the best general practice. A fresh air respirator the safest
choice of all, for using any volatile substances.
The long term effects are that it screws up ones immune system like a
lot of chemicals and can lead to many complications later in life,
including cancer. Brain damage I don't believe has ever been detected
in people who build their own boats. Probably due to the lack of
material to perform research on;-))
Nels
(It's melting out!)
-- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> I've never noticed any problems with epoxy fumes - used alot ofWest, now
> using Raka, both smell exactly the same - sort of a mild 'straw'smell,
> almost unnoticeable, though certain West special hardeners have abit
> stronger ammonia smell. My wife has the world's most sensitive noseand zero
> tolerance, and she has never complained about the smell of epoxy,even when
> working alongside me helping to glass a hull.
Jamie is correct, epoxy fumes exist. Just because you can't smell
something does not mean that it's not there. It is now possible to
chemically make any compound smell like anything you want.
These "odour imitators" can make mashed bananas smell like chocolate,
dish soap smell like lemons (without ever seeing a lemon) etc. They
can also make a chemical compound smell 100% neutral. Originally Rust
Check had an oily smell, then for years our head office added a
cherry scent to Rust Check that attracted Yellow Jacket Hornets to
our shop like crazy, then they gave it a "new-car'smell", last year
they took away any noticeable smell of any kind. Even in the shop
when we're spraying 4 cars at once, and the air is visibly clouded,
you can't smell anything.
Most of my boat building is done in our rustproofing shop at night
and on weekends. Whenever using epoxy, paints, solvents or just
sanding we turn on our two "barn fan" type exhaust fans and open the
window on the opposite side of the garage. Seems to work well, but I
wear particle mask, three or four pairs of latex gloves, and my long
sleeved epoxy clothes to handle the stuff.
I'm indebted to whover suggested the triple layers of gloves. Because
if the phone doesn't ring, I guarantee that your nose WILL itch as
soon as you're covered in epoxy. Just strip off the outer pair and
scratch away. Easy.
Bruce Hector
www.can-you-scratch-this-for-me.can
something does not mean that it's not there. It is now possible to
chemically make any compound smell like anything you want.
These "odour imitators" can make mashed bananas smell like chocolate,
dish soap smell like lemons (without ever seeing a lemon) etc. They
can also make a chemical compound smell 100% neutral. Originally Rust
Check had an oily smell, then for years our head office added a
cherry scent to Rust Check that attracted Yellow Jacket Hornets to
our shop like crazy, then they gave it a "new-car'smell", last year
they took away any noticeable smell of any kind. Even in the shop
when we're spraying 4 cars at once, and the air is visibly clouded,
you can't smell anything.
Most of my boat building is done in our rustproofing shop at night
and on weekends. Whenever using epoxy, paints, solvents or just
sanding we turn on our two "barn fan" type exhaust fans and open the
window on the opposite side of the garage. Seems to work well, but I
wear particle mask, three or four pairs of latex gloves, and my long
sleeved epoxy clothes to handle the stuff.
I'm indebted to whover suggested the triple layers of gloves. Because
if the phone doesn't ring, I guarantee that your nose WILL itch as
soon as you're covered in epoxy. Just strip off the outer pair and
scratch away. Easy.
Bruce Hector
www.can-you-scratch-this-for-me.can
Sorry to preach, but I feel strongly about this....
Epoxy fumes do exist, and denial is not adequate protection. From a quick
check of three websites a minute ago, it appears that fumes normally do not
pose a significant threat, but if you become sensitized to epoxy by skin
contact, or maybe breathing the dust as you sand, then the fumes can cause a
reaction. I would guess that in my own case, I breathed the dust (pounds of
it!), but in any case, I am now sensitive to the fumes, however slightly. I
didn't realize until after boat was built that the dust was a problem. The
sites also noted that once any sensitivity is acquired, it will get much
worse with continued exposure.
Don't take my word for it, do some research in boatbuilding books or on the
web.
Here's what Sam Devlin has to say, on the MAS epoxies site.
http://www.masepoxies.com/safety.htm
Jamie Orr
-
Epoxy fumes do exist, and denial is not adequate protection. From a quick
check of three websites a minute ago, it appears that fumes normally do not
pose a significant threat, but if you become sensitized to epoxy by skin
contact, or maybe breathing the dust as you sand, then the fumes can cause a
reaction. I would guess that in my own case, I breathed the dust (pounds of
it!), but in any case, I am now sensitive to the fumes, however slightly. I
didn't realize until after boat was built that the dust was a problem. The
sites also noted that once any sensitivity is acquired, it will get much
worse with continued exposure.
Don't take my word for it, do some research in boatbuilding books or on the
web.
Here's what Sam Devlin has to say, on the MAS epoxies site.
http://www.masepoxies.com/safety.htm
Jamie Orr
-
I've never noticed any problems with epoxy fumes - used alot of West, now
using Raka, both smell exactly the same - sort of a mild 'straw' smell,
almost unnoticeable, though certain West special hardeners have a bit
stronger ammonia smell. My wife has the world's most sensitive nose and zero
tolerance, and she has never complained about the smell of epoxy, even when
working alongside me helping to glass a hull. When joining the top and
bottom halves of a kayak, one must basically climb inside to roll out the
fiberglass tape along the inner seams, and wet it out with a brush on a
stick; this takes awhile, and the smell in there is a bit stronger but still
very mild, and I have never felt the least bit lightheaded or had any other
symptom - and I'm the guy who gets headaches from secondhand smoke. I do try
very hard to keep the stuff off my skin, use heavy-duty industrial rubber
gloves (no more disposable latex for me, they ALWAYS get holes before the
job is done) and have a wardrobe of old clothes - long sleeved sweatshirts,
jeans, boots, etc. which I don for epoxy work and take off immediately
afterward, but still, an unnoticed drop sometimes soaks thru my jeans, etc.
and some occasional skin contact seems almost inevitable in boatbuilding. I
always wear a good-fitting, quality rubber dust mask when sanding the stuff,
and let it cure as long as possible before making clouds of dust. I too
would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable on this topic - any chemists
out there? occupational therapists? - am I risking permanent brain damage
(may be too late ;o)), certain violent allergic reaction, or what? Would be
interested in hearing other's experiences; I'd hate to develop a severe
allergy to this stuff or worse. My primary workshop is my basement, not well
ventilated...yet.
Paul Lefebvre
using Raka, both smell exactly the same - sort of a mild 'straw' smell,
almost unnoticeable, though certain West special hardeners have a bit
stronger ammonia smell. My wife has the world's most sensitive nose and zero
tolerance, and she has never complained about the smell of epoxy, even when
working alongside me helping to glass a hull. When joining the top and
bottom halves of a kayak, one must basically climb inside to roll out the
fiberglass tape along the inner seams, and wet it out with a brush on a
stick; this takes awhile, and the smell in there is a bit stronger but still
very mild, and I have never felt the least bit lightheaded or had any other
symptom - and I'm the guy who gets headaches from secondhand smoke. I do try
very hard to keep the stuff off my skin, use heavy-duty industrial rubber
gloves (no more disposable latex for me, they ALWAYS get holes before the
job is done) and have a wardrobe of old clothes - long sleeved sweatshirts,
jeans, boots, etc. which I don for epoxy work and take off immediately
afterward, but still, an unnoticed drop sometimes soaks thru my jeans, etc.
and some occasional skin contact seems almost inevitable in boatbuilding. I
always wear a good-fitting, quality rubber dust mask when sanding the stuff,
and let it cure as long as possible before making clouds of dust. I too
would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable on this topic - any chemists
out there? occupational therapists? - am I risking permanent brain damage
(may be too late ;o)), certain violent allergic reaction, or what? Would be
interested in hearing other's experiences; I'd hate to develop a severe
allergy to this stuff or worse. My primary workshop is my basement, not well
ventilated...yet.
Paul Lefebvre
> From:boatbuilding@...[mailto:boatbuilding@...]
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
> One thing I have never really noticed is Epoxy fumes. Using the RAKA
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, recree8 wrote:
conditions. There are additives in hardeners that can--but that's another
ball of wax.
The MSDS does NOT list fumes as a concern, and I don't think that there is
evern the slightest bit of evidence that it should.
However, inhaling green epoxy sanding dust can be a problem--but that's
not fumes, either.
> After reading some of the recent posts - I would say... epoxy fumesEpoxy fumes don't exist. Epoxy does not get airborne under normal working
> can definetely be a problem;-))
conditions. There are additives in hardeners that can--but that's another
ball of wax.
The MSDS does NOT list fumes as a concern, and I don't think that there is
evern the slightest bit of evidence that it should.
However, inhaling green epoxy sanding dust can be a problem--but that's
not fumes, either.
I've used epoxy to sheath a couple of canoes, and to build one Chebacco. I
was careful to avoid skin contact, but since I was working outside, I didn't
use a respirator. I wouldn't say I'm badly sensitized now, but I notice
that since I finished the Chebacco, everytime I work with epoxy, I get an
itch in the back of my throat unless I wear protection.
I now use a respirator with charcoal filters when I use epoxy (or stinky
polyester!) and don't get the itch. I would recommend the same to everyone
else -- before you become even the least bit sensitized. The little paper
dust masks will not work for fumes.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: rnlocnil [mailto:lincolnr@...]
Sent: March 14, 2002 8:00 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
I dunno. I think you guys are exaggerating. Just don't make a plastic
tent and work inside. A little air moving ought to be enough. Skin
contact or polyester are different stories, of course. I guess I might
not want to sleep in a room with lots of wet epoxy, though.
was careful to avoid skin contact, but since I was working outside, I didn't
use a respirator. I wouldn't say I'm badly sensitized now, but I notice
that since I finished the Chebacco, everytime I work with epoxy, I get an
itch in the back of my throat unless I wear protection.
I now use a respirator with charcoal filters when I use epoxy (or stinky
polyester!) and don't get the itch. I would recommend the same to everyone
else -- before you become even the least bit sensitized. The little paper
dust masks will not work for fumes.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: rnlocnil [mailto:lincolnr@...]
Sent: March 14, 2002 8:00 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Request for Advice on fiberglassing
I dunno. I think you guys are exaggerating. Just don't make a plastic
tent and work inside. A little air moving ought to be enough. Skin
contact or polyester are different stories, of course. I guess I might
not want to sleep in a room with lots of wet epoxy, though.
--- In bolger@y..., "recree8" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> After reading some of the recent posts - I would say...
> epoxy fumes can definetely be a problem;-))
>
> Nels
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "steelcb" <steelcb@y...> wrote:
> > Clayton,
> >
> be
> > careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well,
also
> > fumes of course).
> >
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I dunno. I think you guys are exaggerating. Just don't make a plastic
tent and work inside. A little air moving ought to be enough. Skin
contact or polyester are different stories, of course. I guess I might
not want to sleep in a room with lots of wet epoxy, though.
tent and work inside. A little air moving ought to be enough. Skin
contact or polyester are different stories, of course. I guess I might
not want to sleep in a room with lots of wet epoxy, though.
--- In bolger@y..., "recree8" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> After reading some of the recent posts - I would say...
> epoxy fumes can definetely be a problem;-))
>
> Nels
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "steelcb" <steelcb@y...> wrote:
> > Clayton,
> >
> be
> > careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well,
also
> > fumes of course).
> >
One thing I have never really noticed is Epoxy fumes. Using the RAKA
brand, it is nice to work with, mixes well and seems forgiving. It is very
low in odor and I generally open the garage door and turn on a fan in the
opposite side window and don't use a mask. I have one when sanding or if I
have to close the door way down because of wind or rain.
After setting overnight with door closed, I'll open it for a few minutes
before working and run a fan pulling air out overnight. I used some Home
Depot (formeldihyd based) epoxy once, and it about knocked me over and made
me ill, even with the mask and door open. It worked well enough but yuck!
Maybe it's the low humidity but very little if any blush. Seems like extra
work to wash it down but I do anyway.
Am I damaging myself?
Jeff
brand, it is nice to work with, mixes well and seems forgiving. It is very
low in odor and I generally open the garage door and turn on a fan in the
opposite side window and don't use a mask. I have one when sanding or if I
have to close the door way down because of wind or rain.
After setting overnight with door closed, I'll open it for a few minutes
before working and run a fan pulling air out overnight. I used some Home
Depot (formeldihyd based) epoxy once, and it about knocked me over and made
me ill, even with the mask and door open. It worked well enough but yuck!
Maybe it's the low humidity but very little if any blush. Seems like extra
work to wash it down but I do anyway.
Am I damaging myself?
Jeff
After reading some of the recent posts - I would say...
epoxy fumes can definetely be a problem;-))
Nels
epoxy fumes can definetely be a problem;-))
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "steelcb" <steelcb@y...> wrote:
> Clayton,
>
be
> careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well, also
> fumes of course).
>
I would agree with your advice, Tom, with the exception that I would see nothing wrong with using thickened epoxy for scarfing and other gluing jobs. Certainly polyester is not ideal for these applications. I would not use epoxy for any coating or glassing where I intended to use polyester over it.
Chuck
Clayton,
Definitely do not mix polyester and epoxy. Epoxy is better, but if
economy is a high priority, use all polyester. If you use
polyester, read up on its use and follow the directions carefully.
It's not bad stuff from what I hear from people who have built boats
with it, but not as forgiving as epoxy, nor as durable. Preference
would be to use epoxy throughout. The only thing you have to be
careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well, also
fumes of course).
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
Chuck
Clayton,
Definitely do not mix polyester and epoxy. Epoxy is better, but if
economy is a high priority, use all polyester. If you use
polyester, read up on its use and follow the directions carefully.
It's not bad stuff from what I hear from people who have built boats
with it, but not as forgiving as epoxy, nor as durable. Preference
would be to use epoxy throughout. The only thing you have to be
careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well, also
fumes of course).
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
--- In bolger@y..., schmittc@c... wrote:
> I am about to start the construction of a plywood
> boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
> the method that I use is pretty well governed by
> economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
> States at competitive prices, however, freight here
> to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
> duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
> a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
>
> My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
> use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
> surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
> After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
> exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
>
> Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
> better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
> Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
> appreciated.
>
> Clayton Schmitt
> Boquete, Chiriqui
> Republic of Panama
> schmittc@c...
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Clayton,
Definitely do not mix polyester and epoxy. Epoxy is better, but if
economy is a high priority, use all polyester. If you use
polyester, read up on its use and follow the directions carefully.
It's not bad stuff from what I hear from people who have built boats
with it, but not as forgiving as epoxy, nor as durable. Preference
would be to use epoxy throughout. The only thing you have to be
careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well, also
fumes of course).
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
Definitely do not mix polyester and epoxy. Epoxy is better, but if
economy is a high priority, use all polyester. If you use
polyester, read up on its use and follow the directions carefully.
It's not bad stuff from what I hear from people who have built boats
with it, but not as forgiving as epoxy, nor as durable. Preference
would be to use epoxy throughout. The only thing you have to be
careful about with epoxy is to get the proportions right(well, also
fumes of course).
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
--- In bolger@y..., schmittc@c... wrote:
> I am about to start the construction of a plywood
> boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
> the method that I use is pretty well governed by
> economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
> States at competitive prices, however, freight here
> to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
> duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
> a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
>
> My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
> use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
> surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
> After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
> exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
>
> Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
> better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
> Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
> appreciated.
>
> Clayton Schmitt
> Boquete, Chiriqui
> Republic of Panama
> schmittc@c...
Are you sure if you look around you can't find epoxy locally also? My
understanding is that polyester won't cure over epoxy, and it doesn't
stick to the wood as well either. You could save on epoxy by using
very light cloth (say 1oz) for covering things, though not for taping
the seams. Harder to do, but quite light and less mat'l used.
Otherwise, I'd say just use polyester on the tape and paint (latex) on
the bare wood. But the tapes won't stick as well. Maybe ok if you keep
the boat out of the weather.
P.S. In the US, www.raka.com has good epoxy at low prices.
P.P.S. What kind of boat?
understanding is that polyester won't cure over epoxy, and it doesn't
stick to the wood as well either. You could save on epoxy by using
very light cloth (say 1oz) for covering things, though not for taping
the seams. Harder to do, but quite light and less mat'l used.
Otherwise, I'd say just use polyester on the tape and paint (latex) on
the bare wood. But the tapes won't stick as well. Maybe ok if you keep
the boat out of the weather.
P.S. In the US, www.raka.com has good epoxy at low prices.
P.P.S. What kind of boat?
--- In bolger@y..., schmittc@c... wrote:
> I am about to start the construction of a plywood
> boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
> the method that I use is pretty well governed by
> economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
> States at competitive prices, however, freight here
> to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
> duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
> a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
>
> My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
> use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
> surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
> After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
> exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
>
> Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
> better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
> Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
> appreciated.
>
> Clayton Schmitt
> Boquete, Chiriqui
> Republic of Panama
> schmittc@c...
Check with your epoxy supplier -- but polyester resin doesn't stick to
epoxy. If you can't do it all in epoxy, do it all in polyester. (Unless its
a big boat, that you will be spending a lot of time and money on. Then the
economics may favour the epoxy for the long run.)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:schmittc@...[mailto:schmittc@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Request for Advice on fiberglassing
I am about to start the construction of a plywood
boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
the method that I use is pretty well governed by
economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
States at competitive prices, however, freight here
to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
appreciated.
Clayton Schmitt
Boquete, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
schmittc@...
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
epoxy. If you can't do it all in epoxy, do it all in polyester. (Unless its
a big boat, that you will be spending a lot of time and money on. Then the
economics may favour the epoxy for the long run.)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:schmittc@...[mailto:schmittc@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Request for Advice on fiberglassing
I am about to start the construction of a plywood
boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
the method that I use is pretty well governed by
economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
States at competitive prices, however, freight here
to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
appreciated.
Clayton Schmitt
Boquete, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
schmittc@...
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Clayton,
I think that you are going in the wrong direction. Epoxy
may be used over polyester, but not the other way around.
James
I think that you are going in the wrong direction. Epoxy
may be used over polyester, but not the other way around.
James
----- Original Message -----
From: <schmittc@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:13 PM
Subject: [bolger] Request for Advice on fiberglassing
> I am about to start the construction of a plywood
> boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
> the method that I use is pretty well governed by
> economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
> States at competitive prices, however, freight here
> to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
> duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
> a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
>
> My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
> use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
> surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
> After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
> exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
>
> Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
> better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
> Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
> appreciated.
>
> Clayton Schmitt
> Boquete, Chiriqui
> Republic of Panama
>schmittc@...
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
My experience with polyester resin for wetting out fibreglass is
abysmal. It all peeled off the next day, no adhesion at all.
I reccomend glassing the outside, wet out with epoxy, if you're going
to keep her more than a few years. If not, just do the seams and
paint the rest.
It may not be true for you in Panama, but up here (Canada) a homemade
wooden boat isn't worth nada. Plus, after a year or two, I get bored
with them and want to build the next one.
No vale el barque de madura nada, la maduar es roto y el mar es
grandisimo y gratis. Bueno suerte.
Bruce Hector
Loco-Gordo.ca
www.brucesboats.com
abysmal. It all peeled off the next day, no adhesion at all.
I reccomend glassing the outside, wet out with epoxy, if you're going
to keep her more than a few years. If not, just do the seams and
paint the rest.
It may not be true for you in Panama, but up here (Canada) a homemade
wooden boat isn't worth nada. Plus, after a year or two, I get bored
with them and want to build the next one.
No vale el barque de madura nada, la maduar es roto y el mar es
grandisimo y gratis. Bueno suerte.
Bruce Hector
Loco-Gordo.ca
www.brucesboats.com
I am about to start the construction of a plywood
boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
the method that I use is pretty well governed by
economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
States at competitive prices, however, freight here
to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
appreciated.
Clayton Schmitt
Boquete, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
schmittc@...
boat. I plan to cover the boat with fiberglass and
the method that I use is pretty well governed by
economics, I think. I can buy epoxy products in the
States at competitive prices, however, freight here
to Panama runs $2.25 per pound plus possible import
duties. We have polyester resin available locally at
a $12.00 per gallon including catalyst.
My plans are to tape all seams using epoxy, and to
use epoxy putty fillets, and lastly to coat all wood
surfaces both exterior and exterior with epoxy.
After this, I intend to cover both exterior and
exterior with fiberglass cloth utilizing polyesters.
Am I going in the wrong direction, can it be done
better, differently, and what will I be doing wrong?
Any and all advice/comments will be most sincerely
appreciated.
Clayton Schmitt
Boquete, Chiriqui
Republic of Panama
schmittc@...