[bolger] Re: Happiness is building your own boat.
>Back in March, David teased us withLast month I dropped Phil and Suzanne a quick "howzit cummin" note
>this message, and whet my imagination
>to think that the Insolent 60 might
>actually be built. In my opinion, the
>I60 is *the* most outrageous Bolger
>idea.
>
>Knock on wood, being 'this Fall' already,
>David/Susan please update us on luck and
>progress.
and received the following:
"Thanks for the encouragement. We're working off a backlog by
degrees, (it's building out faster at the far end, but that's after
the Insolent project.)
What's happening on the Insolent is that a trial model of the
retracting keel has been fabricated and assembled, and we expect to
hear from sailing tests of shortly. It is smaller than yours will be
but the geometry is identical and has alread shown us some desirable
refinements.
We too are looking forward to seeing these boats in action (say
against W-class...
Sincerely,
Phil"
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
this message, and whet my imagination
to think that the Insolent 60 might
actually be built. In my opinion, the
I60 is *the* most outrageous Bolger
idea.
Knock on wood, being 'this Fall' already,
David/Susan please update us on luck and
progress.
> And so it is with a debt ofBack in March, David teased us with
> gratitude that I tell you that Susan
> Davis and I have asked PCB to finish
> the Insolent 60 and he has
> agreed! With any luck sometime
> this Fall we'll begin construction on
> a matched pair of Insolent 60s.
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
this message, and whet my imagination
to think that the Insolent 60 might
actually be built. In my opinion, the
I60 is *the* most outrageous Bolger
idea.
Knock on wood, being 'this Fall' already,
David/Susan please update us on luck and
progress.
Heavier versions of Yellow Leaf or Naval Jelly are possible,
low tech canoe alternatives that could be useful many places.
Joel Whites garvey canoes have a lot of flair. He was told,
"These folks can balance anything." Wonder if Bolger's
dugout has square sides?
I think this nice, amateur boat group originates in Turkey.
( courtesy of Gavin Atkin )
http://dc.endtas.com/
Mark
pvanderwaart wrote:
low tech canoe alternatives that could be useful many places.
Joel Whites garvey canoes have a lot of flair. He was told,
"These folks can balance anything." Wonder if Bolger's
dugout has square sides?
I think this nice, amateur boat group originates in Turkey.
( courtesy of Gavin Atkin )
http://dc.endtas.com/
Mark
pvanderwaart wrote:
>
> > Will you help find, please, the JW and PCB boats you
> were
> > thinking of?
>
> The PCB boat is a ply version of a Latin American dugout.
> I think it
> was in MAIB, but I didn't find the reference in a quick
> look.
>
> Yves-Marie Tanton has posted that he knows a yard in
> Turkey (I think
> it is) which is an economical place to get a wooden boat
> built. See
> notes on the bulletin board at www.tanton.com. Turkey is
> not 3rd
> world and he is talking full-blown yachts. However, if you
> want to
> cruise the Med...
>
> Peter
>
LOL!
Now that's a guy who needs a tube of PL quickly!
jhkohnen@...wrote:
Now that's a guy who needs a tube of PL quickly!
jhkohnen@...wrote:
> FAO has been promoting wholesome, economical boats for
> quite some time. A
> good outfit. They work to make the collision of
> traditional cultures with
> the wonders of modern technology a bit less traumatic than
> the example
> here:
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/images/Canot.jpg
I certainly don't know much, really, about grass roots,
international development. But should that stop me from
having an opinion?
I'm still most impressed with the project detailed in WB
#88. The Mosquitias were faced with the dilemma that the big
trees they made their log canoes from were now too far away.
Smaller trees were still around, and so the project helped
them learn to build boats like they knew with plank on
frame, a concept that helps them be sustainable.
The publication on the handsome and well found FAO power
skiffs is a complete book on boat building if there ever was
one. The boats are for a different purpose than the little
flatty from the 1974 edition I saw reproduced in the old
Mariner's Catalog. Why don't they list that any more?
John Welsford's two impress. That little Fat Canoe is
versatile! With expanded patterns for the planking, the
motor workboat Trover truly would be fast and cheap to
build, and might get by on less than 15 hp. Both yield
high value out of minimum materials. The kit boat scheme
makes sense. Just send to local organizers. Or imagine the
fun of showing up somewhere with 20 knocked down sets and a
pickup full of PLOP to give away. "Tomorrow, you'll go
fishing!"
In googling for more lines of Trover I came to the site of
Aussie Boats For East Timor,
with more of the story told at Duckworks. Looks like Fat
Canoe got modified against JW's advice to take the 15 hp
engine, with no mention of the Trover. The boats are sent completed.
http://www.perfectsites.com/ABETQUEENSLAND/what.html
A boat like Trover might be the one for me. It could do my
job. I like the looks. I know that I could build it. As the
Guatemalan refugee living permanently in Maine said to the
Honduran students: In the U.S. "Oh! You can make a hundred
dollars in a day! but it's all gone in half an hour."
Thanks,
Mark
jhkohnen@...wrote:
international development. But should that stop me from
having an opinion?
I'm still most impressed with the project detailed in WB
#88. The Mosquitias were faced with the dilemma that the big
trees they made their log canoes from were now too far away.
Smaller trees were still around, and so the project helped
them learn to build boats like they knew with plank on
frame, a concept that helps them be sustainable.
The publication on the handsome and well found FAO power
skiffs is a complete book on boat building if there ever was
one. The boats are for a different purpose than the little
flatty from the 1974 edition I saw reproduced in the old
Mariner's Catalog. Why don't they list that any more?
John Welsford's two impress. That little Fat Canoe is
versatile! With expanded patterns for the planking, the
motor workboat Trover truly would be fast and cheap to
build, and might get by on less than 15 hp. Both yield
high value out of minimum materials. The kit boat scheme
makes sense. Just send to local organizers. Or imagine the
fun of showing up somewhere with 20 knocked down sets and a
pickup full of PLOP to give away. "Tomorrow, you'll go
fishing!"
In googling for more lines of Trover I came to the site of
Aussie Boats For East Timor,
with more of the story told at Duckworks. Looks like Fat
Canoe got modified against JW's advice to take the 15 hp
engine, with no mention of the Trover. The boats are sent completed.
http://www.perfectsites.com/ABETQUEENSLAND/what.html
A boat like Trover might be the one for me. It could do my
job. I like the looks. I know that I could build it. As the
Guatemalan refugee living permanently in Maine said to the
Honduran students: In the U.S. "Oh! You can make a hundred
dollars in a day! but it's all gone in half an hour."
Thanks,
Mark
jhkohnen@...wrote:
>Chuck Leinweber wrote:
> Here's an online book of outboard fishing boats from the
> FAO. Not bad
> looking, either:
>
>http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM
>
> Here is some info on the Welsford:
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/timor/index.htm
>
> Chuck
Thanks. Ferrocement and fiberglass. :ob That's no fun, I like butchering
wood.
I've got Mechanization of Small Fishing Craft from the FAO, probably
published in the '60s from the look of the ads. No building plans in it,
but some lines and accomodation plans of small power fishing boats.
Comparing it with the V-bottom plans in Tech paper 134, it looks like the
FAO has been promoting wholesome, economical boats for quite some time. A
good outfit. They work to make the collision of traditional cultures with
the wonders of modern technology a bit less traumatic than the example
here:
http://www.boat-links.com/images/Canot.jpg
wood.
I've got Mechanization of Small Fishing Craft from the FAO, probably
published in the '60s from the look of the ads. No building plans in it,
but some lines and accomodation plans of small power fishing boats.
Comparing it with the V-bottom plans in Tech paper 134, it looks like the
FAO has been promoting wholesome, economical boats for quite some time. A
good outfit. They work to make the collision of traditional cultures with
the wonders of modern technology a bit less traumatic than the example
here:
http://www.boat-links.com/images/Canot.jpg
On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:10:42 -0000, Steve wrote:
> I did a search for boats and pulled up a few references. I didn't go
> thru the whole pile of results but here is what I found:
>
>http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0530e/t0530e01.htm
>http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/v9468e/v9468e04.htm
> ...
>http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w7260e/w7260e05.htm
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>
Room for a folding schooner on top?
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> I suggested to my brother that following the local style of what the
> craftsmen know how to build would be smart, though I also suggested
> that he consider a Clam Skiff with Cabin, which also would fit in a
> 20 foot container, and is more "substantial" than an AF4.
> Will you help find, please, the JW and PCB boats you wereThe PCB boat is a ply version of a Latin American dugout. I think it
> thinking of?
was in MAIB, but I didn't find the reference in a quick look.
Yves-Marie Tanton has posted that he knows a yard in Turkey (I think
it is) which is an economical place to get a wooden boat built. See
notes on the bulletin board at www.tanton.com. Turkey is not 3rd
world and he is talking full-blown yachts. However, if you want to
cruise the Med...
Peter
I did a search for boats and pulled up a few references. I didn't go
thru the whole pile of results but here is what I found:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0530e/t0530e01.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/v9468e/v9468e04.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0530e/t0530e12.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w7260e/w7260e05.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w7260e/w7260e06.htm
Some may be doubles?
regards, steve
thru the whole pile of results but here is what I found:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0530e/t0530e01.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/v9468e/v9468e04.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0530e/t0530e12.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w7260e/w7260e05.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w7260e/w7260e06.htm
Some may be doubles?
regards, steve
--- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> Here's an online book of outboard fishing boats from the FAO. Not
bad
> looking, either:
>
>http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM
>
> I'll bet there are some other boat designs at the FAO, but I haven't
> figured out how to find them yet:
>
>http://www.fao.org/fi/publ/publ.asp
>
>http://www.fao.org/documents/
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
Any dietician
> will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel contains four
times the
> vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J. Perelman>
Here's an online book of outboard fishing boats from the FAO. Not bad
looking, either:
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM
I'll bet there are some other boat designs at the FAO, but I haven't
figured out how to find them yet:
http://www.fao.org/fi/publ/publ.asp
http://www.fao.org/documents/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll. Any dietician
will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel contains four times the
vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J. Perelman>
looking, either:
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM
I'll bet there are some other boat designs at the FAO, but I haven't
figured out how to find them yet:
http://www.fao.org/fi/publ/publ.asp
http://www.fao.org/documents/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll. Any dietician
will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel contains four times the
vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J. Perelman>
Here is some info on the Welsford:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/timor/index.htm
Chuck
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/timor/index.htm
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Albanese
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Third world boat building...
I've seen the WB stories on Jim Brown's 'Banca Cat' and also
on the group from the Mosquito Coast that visited the WB
School In #88. Joel White's 'Pipante,' a 20 foot, paddle /
motor garvey type and 'Tuk-Tuk', the 31' tunnel stern power
dory are both very carefully conceived responses to the need
for personal and group transportation.
Will you help find, please, the JW and PCB boats you were
thinking of?
Mark
pvanderwaart wrote:
>
> > John Welsford has design a boat for just such purpose.
>
> Joel White and PCB have also designed boats such. For
> these two, the
> target market was Latin America. All three boats
> (including JW's) are
> long, skinny, shallow.
>
> Jim Brown (of Searunner Trimaran fame) worked on some
> projects to
> make wood/epoxy boats for subsistence fishermen in Africa.
> These may
> have been Constant Camber. Their traditional hard wood is
> hard to
> find, but the available softwood works well with epoxy.
>
> Peter
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've seen the WB stories on Jim Brown's 'Banca Cat' and also
on the group from the Mosquito Coast that visited the WB
School In #88. Joel White's 'Pipante,' a 20 foot, paddle /
motor garvey type and 'Tuk-Tuk', the 31' tunnel stern power
dory are both very carefully conceived responses to the need
for personal and group transportation.
Will you help find, please, the JW and PCB boats you were
thinking of?
Mark
pvanderwaart wrote:
on the group from the Mosquito Coast that visited the WB
School In #88. Joel White's 'Pipante,' a 20 foot, paddle /
motor garvey type and 'Tuk-Tuk', the 31' tunnel stern power
dory are both very carefully conceived responses to the need
for personal and group transportation.
Will you help find, please, the JW and PCB boats you were
thinking of?
Mark
pvanderwaart wrote:
>
> > John Welsford has design a boat for just such purpose.
>
> Joel White and PCB have also designed boats such. For
> these two, the
> target market was Latin America. All three boats
> (including JW's) are
> long, skinny, shallow.
>
> Jim Brown (of Searunner Trimaran fame) worked on some
> projects to
> make wood/epoxy boats for subsistence fishermen in Africa.
> These may
> have been Constant Camber. Their traditional hard wood is
> hard to
> find, but the available softwood works well with epoxy.
>
> Peter
I suggested to my brother that following the local style of what the
craftsmen know how to build would be smart, though I also suggested
that he consider a Clam Skiff with Cabin, which also would fit in a
20 foot container, and is more "substantial" than an AF4.
craftsmen know how to build would be smart, though I also suggested
that he consider a Clam Skiff with Cabin, which also would fit in a
20 foot container, and is more "substantial" than an AF4.
> John Welsford has design a boat for just such purpose.Joel White and PCB have also designed boats such. For these two, the
target market was Latin America. All three boats (including JW's) are
long, skinny, shallow.
Jim Brown (of Searunner Trimaran fame) worked on some projects to
make wood/epoxy boats for subsistence fishermen in Africa. These may
have been Constant Camber. Their traditional hard wood is hard to
find, but the available softwood works well with epoxy.
Peter
John Welsford has design a boat for just such purpose.
Stuart Crawford
Stuart Crawford
>
> A third possibility is to check whether someone like the UN Food and
> Agriculture Programme has been running a boat-building project. Builders of
> these boats might already be skilled in more-modern techniques.
Bruce
Having spent over 20 years living in various developing countries, I've often
thought about getting a boat built locally using cheap local labor but never
did it for various reasons.
If you want an instant-style boat, you'll need a good source of good
waterproof plywood, epoxy glue, non-ferrous fasteners and other specialized
items. These might not be so easy to come by in Karachi. Also, you would need
to devote a lot of time to training workers (almost certainly illiterate and
knowing little spoken English) in the required building techniques, then
supervising the work very closely.
Another way to go is to commission a version of a local design, upgrading
the material as appropriate e.g. non-ferrous fasteners. Third-world boats are
not usually built to last. Labor and materials are cheap and the owners
expects to get their money back over a few years.
A third possibility is to check whether someone like the UN Food and
Agriculture Programme has been running a boat-building project. Builders of
these boats might already be skilled in more-modern techniques.
Your brother would learn a lot by strolling round a few fishing-boat
harbours.
Hope the above is not just stating the obvious.
Howard
Having spent over 20 years living in various developing countries, I've often
thought about getting a boat built locally using cheap local labor but never
did it for various reasons.
If you want an instant-style boat, you'll need a good source of good
waterproof plywood, epoxy glue, non-ferrous fasteners and other specialized
items. These might not be so easy to come by in Karachi. Also, you would need
to devote a lot of time to training workers (almost certainly illiterate and
knowing little spoken English) in the required building techniques, then
supervising the work very closely.
Another way to go is to commission a version of a local design, upgrading
the material as appropriate e.g. non-ferrous fasteners. Third-world boats are
not usually built to last. Labor and materials are cheap and the owners
expects to get their money back over a few years.
A third possibility is to check whether someone like the UN Food and
Agriculture Programme has been running a boat-building project. Builders of
these boats might already be skilled in more-modern techniques.
Your brother would learn a lot by strolling round a few fishing-boat
harbours.
Hope the above is not just stating the obvious.
Howard
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> --- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
> > Sounds to me like all die-hard U.S boatbuilders should set
> > up a shop North of the border!
>
> My brother [who lives at the moment in Karachi Pakistan] has just
> asked me to suggest a boat design for him to commission through the
> local boatbuilders and ultimately ship back to Louisiana as freight
> in a container! Quoting: "I am attracted to the ones that use small
> engines but still have some creature comforts."
>
> I wonder which Bolger or Michalak power boat would be best suitable
> for 3rd world builders, and would fit in a standard container?
>
>I guess if the price overruns, you can call it Insolvent 60.Been there, done that, optioned the movie rights ;-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/18001
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I guess if the price overruns, you can call it Insolvent 60.
Howard
Howard
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Boat baloney, $2 a pound.
> >http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0415/
>
> That would make it $14k-$16k, which is an okay figure for your
> run of the mill Bolger boat, but the keel and hinges on the I60,
> plus that T50, could make this seriously overrun that, not to
> mention the trailer and the Suburban....
>
> -- Sue --
> (who doesn't have the luxury of foregoing the trailer)
>
>
> >(to be consumed only *after* the tablesaw and skilsaw have been...and lungs. Which is why a good quality respirator was the
> >put away for the evening, of course!)
>
> Which bring us to the only budget item I really give a rat's ass
> about. Finishing the project with all my digits and eyeballs.
first item that went in the cart when I raided Home Depot for
building tools.
-- Sue --
(who has a cabinetmaker friend who now has 9 1/2 fingers)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> As a builder of both a Frosty and a Tortoise, how would youOh, that's an easy one: the Frosty is a complete boat, and the
> compare the two.
Tortoise is a stack of parts in my basement. :-)
> Could the Tortoise be used as a winter racer?Only if you decked it in and added more flotation, or added
some strategically placed tarps as spray skirts. There's a
*lot* more usable room, but it's completely open except for
the fantail. One of the safety factors in the Frosty is the
fact that it's decked in all the way around, and you don't take
on freezing water from spray over the bow or from heeling.
(Well, at least not in theory.)
If I were starting a frostbite fleet from scratch, I'd probably
suggest the Optimist as a boat -- more room, lots of support,
decent performance, and there's probably a whole fleet of them
already lying around at your local club that aren't otherwise
used during the winter. And they're designed to be safe enough
to put kids in 'em. Plus, they're easy enough to build to
satisfy the boatbuilders in the group, but available enough not
to drive off folks who don't want to be bothered with building.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>(to be consumed only *after* the tablesaw and skilsaw have beenWhich bring us to the only budget item I really give a rat's ass
>put away for the evening, of course!)
about. Finishing the project with all my digits and eyeballs.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> 1. The scrounge factor - where David seems to have the edge.Again, I'm quite lucky to have a champion scrounger like David
around....
> For example if you have Canadians helpingYes, but remember that we're homebuilders. I can brew a decent
> your beer budget will increase at least 100% - not to mention the
> pizza factor!
quality India Pale Ale (or Hefeweizen, or Witbier, or Muenchener
Helles) for a fraction of what it would normally cost to go out
and buy "production" beer. :-) Sadly, though, there isn't time
to brew mead and have it drinkable before the end of the project.
And, of course, there's value in both going upscale *and* scrounging:
a brewery in Cooperstown produces a quite passable imitation of
Chimay Trappist Ale for one third the price of the real thing....
-- Sue --
(to be consumed only *after* the tablesaw and skilsaw have been
put away for the evening, of course!)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>If the boat turns out to be as cheap as David's estimates,Now wait just a second here! David has provided no estimates of the I60 cost!
He's offered a price for the hull: 100 sheets of 1/2" @ $25/sheet +
and equal cost in glass/epoxy.
He's offered that Wyoming could be build with a T50 for about $17K,
and that the I60 need her keel, hinges and sailing rig on top of that.
He's hoped that the lead wings won't cost too much more than $1/pound.
But he has not, repeat, has not offered an estimate for the whole boat.
Just so we're clear ;-)
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> Having said that,I am intrigued to see how you guys are goingFor me, at least, the answer is that I'm not. I'm planning to
> to get a 10,000 lbs boat done for the small figure you mention and
> still end up with a robust enough vessel to last long enough to
> make the investment in time/money/effort worth it.
have kids in a couple of years -- in fact, I'm delaying them for
this project -- and once I do, there's no way that I'll have
time for a project of this scope again for fifteen to twenty
years. So I need a boat that's going to last that long.
Jokes about the Admiral's Cup aside, my child (and hypothetical
spouse or life partner) is the real reason why I'm building my
boat. When I was growing up, I was lucky enough to spend all
of my summers at Chautauqua Institution, and my grandparents had
bought one of the last pieces of waterfront property there. But
before they built on the property, my grandfather sold it, and
the house that's currently there is valued in seven figures.
It's going to be much later in life, if ever, before I can afford
a cottage there, but we have other relatives who have a cottage
and the right to moor a boat, but no boat. So building the I60
means that my child will have the same opportunity that I had to
be exposed to Chautauqua and all of its educational and cultural
opportunities, and that's what makes the boat an important part
of my life, rather than an expensive luxury that's nice to have.
Equally important is the fact that the accomodations ought to
be enough to let me live on board if I ever need to take a job
somewhere outside Rochester, where real estate prices aren't
as cheap as they are here. I like my job and my employer, and
would be happy sinking roots here and sticking around for the
long haul, but I'm a software engineer, and I know better than
to count on any one particular job for job security. So the
I60 is also an important hedge against a rainy year.
Anyway, David had thrown out the figure of $5k or so for the
bare hull. For small boats that I've built, epoxy and glass
(I'm obsessive about glassing everything) seems to come to
about as much as the bare wood does, and a $2500 budget for
a 55-gallon drum of resin, 10 gallons of 5:1 hardener, and
a whole bunch of glass cloth would seem to support that figure.
I'll probably wind up overruning that $5k figure, as I plan to
use MDO or better, but an actual estimate will have to wait
until I get the construction plans.
From poking around boatbuilding sites on the web and reading
books and whatnot, the bare hull materials seem to come to
between one half and one sixth of the final all-up cost of a
boat. Given that we've got some non-trivial custom items,
I'm guessing that a 6:1 ratio is a safer assumption, which
would yield an overall back-of-the-envelope estimate of $30k.
That yields a boatbuilding budget of $300/week to get the
boat in the water by the start of the 2004 season, which
ought to be quite doable barring a disaster at my current job.
If the boat turns out to be as cheap as David's estimates,
I'll be thrilled, and will pocket the savings -- and David's
much better eye for bargains involved ought to help in that
regard. If we overrun that $30k figure, I can live with it;
it just means that the boat will take longer to complete.
With a weight of 7000-10000 lbs, the U.S. "boat baloney" metric
yields a figure of $14000-$20000. Peter's metric would give
a figure of CDN$42000-CDN$60000, which translates to between
$27300 and $39000 US. I could live with a $39000 total cost,
and just barely make it into the water in time for the 2004
Lake Champlain Messabout.
-- Sue --
(the above figures don't include the Suburban, but I can wait
a couple of seasons before acquiring one)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bruce --
Not that I want anything coming between PCB&F and finishing the I60,
but this fairly reads like a chapter from BWAOM!
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Not that I want anything coming between PCB&F and finishing the I60,
but this fairly reads like a chapter from BWAOM!
>My brother [who lives at the moment in Karachi Pakistan] has justC.E.P.
>asked me to suggest a boat design for him to commission through the
>local boatbuilders and ultimately ship back to Louisiana as freight
>in a container! Quoting: "I am attracted to the ones that use small
>engines but still have some creature comforts."
>
>I wonder which Bolger or Michalak power boat would be best suitable
>for 3rd world builders, and would fit in a standard container?
>
>20' Dry Freight Container
>
>Interior Dimensions:
>Length: 19'5", 5.919m
>Width: 7'8", 2.340m
>Height: 7'9.5", 2.380m
>Door Opening:
>Width: 7'6", 2.286m
>Height: 7'5.5", 2.278m
>
>I just emailed him a suggestion of an AF4, as money is scarce and
>this is a real cheap option.
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
asked me to suggest a boat design for him to commission through the
local boatbuilders and ultimately ship back to Louisiana as freight
in a container! Quoting: "I am attracted to the ones that use small
engines but still have some creature comforts."
I wonder which Bolger or Michalak power boat would be best suitable
for 3rd world builders, and would fit in a standard container?
20' Dry Freight Container
Interior Dimensions:
Length: 19'5", 5.919m
Width: 7'8", 2.340m
Height: 7'9.5", 2.380m
Door Opening:
Width: 7'6", 2.286m
Height: 7'5.5", 2.278m
I just emailed him a suggestion of an AF4, as money is scarce and
this is a real cheap option.
> Sounds to me like all die-hard U.S boatbuilders should setMy brother [who lives at the moment in Karachi Pakistan] has just
> up a shop North of the border!
asked me to suggest a boat design for him to commission through the
local boatbuilders and ultimately ship back to Louisiana as freight
in a container! Quoting: "I am attracted to the ones that use small
engines but still have some creature comforts."
I wonder which Bolger or Michalak power boat would be best suitable
for 3rd world builders, and would fit in a standard container?
20' Dry Freight Container
Interior Dimensions:
Length: 19'5", 5.919m
Width: 7'8", 2.340m
Height: 7'9.5", 2.380m
Door Opening:
Width: 7'6", 2.286m
Height: 7'5.5", 2.278m
I just emailed him a suggestion of an AF4, as money is scarce and
this is a real cheap option.
Peter,
I Suggest if you travel south at all - better let the first mate
handle any transactions okay? And you stick to boat buiding, not
estimating exchange rates. $60,000 (cdn) is about $37,200 (us). My
guess the cost would fall somewhere in between, depending on:
1. The scrounge factor - where David seems to have the edge.
2. The desire to - if given the choice - go upscale qualitywise when
considering the final result. Susan might have the edge. I did a
major reno on a house and the quality difference between the cheapest
and the better quality is that usually the better quality ends up the
far more economical. Both for ease to work with, and higher the final
satisfaction. Don't forget the value of your time - and perhaps doing
it over again which is really a drag.
My rule is to make an honest estimate, double it and be sure to have
a little cash on the side. For example if you have Canadians helping -
your beer budget will increase at least 100% - not to mention the
pizza factor!
I love the barnraising concept for some of the work. Hold a
buildabout/messabout!
Nels - where it is still -20 (But a "dry" cold;-))
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
I Suggest if you travel south at all - better let the first mate
handle any transactions okay? And you stick to boat buiding, not
estimating exchange rates. $60,000 (cdn) is about $37,200 (us). My
guess the cost would fall somewhere in between, depending on:
1. The scrounge factor - where David seems to have the edge.
2. The desire to - if given the choice - go upscale qualitywise when
considering the final result. Susan might have the edge. I did a
major reno on a house and the quality difference between the cheapest
and the better quality is that usually the better quality ends up the
far more economical. Both for ease to work with, and higher the final
satisfaction. Don't forget the value of your time - and perhaps doing
it over again which is really a drag.
My rule is to make an honest estimate, double it and be sure to have
a little cash on the side. For example if you have Canadians helping -
your beer budget will increase at least 100% - not to mention the
pizza factor!
I love the barnraising concept for some of the work. Hold a
buildabout/messabout!
Nels - where it is still -20 (But a "dry" cold;-))
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
> Chuck,
> So,in other words,if I tried to build an I60 in the U.S.A. it
> would cost me $180,000.00 CAN. but only $60,000.00 CAN. if I built
Chuck,
So,in other words,if I tried to build an I60 in the U.S.A. it
would cost me $180,000.00 CAN. but only $60,000.00 CAN. if I built it
in Canada? Sounds to me like all die-hard U.S boatbuilders should set
up a shop North of the border! But be warned,1 kilogram will feel just
the same as 2.2046 pounds regardless of the exchange rate! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who wasted away his school years doodling boats instead
of learning anything,from the shores of the frosty St.Lawrence......
So,in other words,if I tried to build an I60 in the U.S.A. it
would cost me $180,000.00 CAN. but only $60,000.00 CAN. if I built it
in Canada? Sounds to me like all die-hard U.S boatbuilders should set
up a shop North of the border! But be warned,1 kilogram will feel just
the same as 2.2046 pounds regardless of the exchange rate! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who wasted away his school years doodling boats instead
of learning anything,from the shores of the frosty St.Lawrence......
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> come out at about $6.00 CAN. per pound displacement.
>
> Peter:
>
> Wouldn't that work out to about the same thing that was guessed at
before: $2US?
>
> Chuck ;-)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Peter wrote:
Up around where
I live,amateur built boats assembled with good quality materials(not
the most expensive but durable) and in"sail-away"condition seem to all
come out at about $6.00 CAN. per pound displacement.
Peter:
Wouldn't that work out to about the same thing that was guessed at before: $2US?
Chuck ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Up around where
I live,amateur built boats assembled with good quality materials(not
the most expensive but durable) and in"sail-away"condition seem to all
come out at about $6.00 CAN. per pound displacement.
Peter:
Wouldn't that work out to about the same thing that was guessed at before: $2US?
Chuck ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David,
A wonderful set of challenges you've set for yourself with the
I60! I enjoyed checking out your web page and look forward to seeing
updates as they become available.This will surely be of great
inspiration for other Big Boat Bolger Builders(the 4Bclub?).Not to
slight Susan in anyway,for she too is applauded for having the
strength of conviction to jump into the pan with you!(Hope you read
this too,Susan)
Just as a note of interest to you both,I thought I might throw in
this little tidbit regarding budget or estimated cost.Up around where
I live,amateur built boats assembled with good quality materials(not
the most expensive but durable) and in"sail-away"condition seem to all
come out at about $6.00 CAN. per pound displacement.This figure has
held up through out the '90s and included boats ranging from as small
as my MICRO up to a 43'Spountz(sp).This was just something of a casual
poll I conducted from amongst folks I know who have built their own
boats within this periode.I was also lucky to be dealing with
diligent/obsessive types who save ALL their receipts.
Having said that,I am intrigued to see how you guys are going to
get a 10,000 lbs boat done for the small figure you mention and still
end up with a robust enough vessel to last long enough to make the
investment in time/money/effort worth it.Added to this,and in light of
your desire for a beautiful cruise/circumnavigation of the
Northeast,clearly you seek a sound and secure vessel to carry you and
your loved ones around in.This would appear to pre-empt a
quick-n-dirty approach to the I60,no?
Anyway,I wish you both all the best in this most wonderful project
and with any kind of luck,perhaps our paths will cross one day on Lake
Champlain with you in the I60 and myself offering tender service in
Windermere!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,just wondering about things various,from the shores of
the St.Lawrence(clockwise,David!clockwise)...........
A wonderful set of challenges you've set for yourself with the
I60! I enjoyed checking out your web page and look forward to seeing
updates as they become available.This will surely be of great
inspiration for other Big Boat Bolger Builders(the 4Bclub?).Not to
slight Susan in anyway,for she too is applauded for having the
strength of conviction to jump into the pan with you!(Hope you read
this too,Susan)
Just as a note of interest to you both,I thought I might throw in
this little tidbit regarding budget or estimated cost.Up around where
I live,amateur built boats assembled with good quality materials(not
the most expensive but durable) and in"sail-away"condition seem to all
come out at about $6.00 CAN. per pound displacement.This figure has
held up through out the '90s and included boats ranging from as small
as my MICRO up to a 43'Spountz(sp).This was just something of a casual
poll I conducted from amongst folks I know who have built their own
boats within this periode.I was also lucky to be dealing with
diligent/obsessive types who save ALL their receipts.
Having said that,I am intrigued to see how you guys are going to
get a 10,000 lbs boat done for the small figure you mention and still
end up with a robust enough vessel to last long enough to make the
investment in time/money/effort worth it.Added to this,and in light of
your desire for a beautiful cruise/circumnavigation of the
Northeast,clearly you seek a sound and secure vessel to carry you and
your loved ones around in.This would appear to pre-empt a
quick-n-dirty approach to the I60,no?
Anyway,I wish you both all the best in this most wonderful project
and with any kind of luck,perhaps our paths will cross one day on Lake
Champlain with you in the I60 and myself offering tender service in
Windermere!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,just wondering about things various,from the shores of
the St.Lawrence(clockwise,David!clockwise)...........
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >> ...lucky if I can get my boat underway for $10K.
> >
> >You must have some dollar figures attached to your I60 bill of
> >materials by now, please post them to the group. [I am *really*
> >curious about your ideas about estimating the costs of building a
> >boat.]
>
> The big wildcards on this project are the keel and hinges. Commodity
> price for lead is $.25/pound. I'm figuring the markup is going to
> 100% and I'm hoping that actually pouring the thing will double
that
> price, or about $3000 for the lead wings. But that's just an out of
> my ass guess. There's the rest of the machinery as well, and I may
> have to use real (read "expensive') marine type metal because I
> intend to keep the boat in the water 7-9 month out of the year at
> least.
>
> There's the motor of course, anything from a stolen 25hp for nuthin'
> to a brand new Yamaha T50 for about $6K. I'd like to have the T50
for
> when I fail to heed Pete's advice and buck the current up the St.L
>
> The other place this design looks like it could really hurt you is
on
> line -- she's going to have a lot of string to pull and some of it
is
> going be the real stuff. Ouch!
>
> Fortunately my own circumstances don't require a truck/trailer. So
> that helps. For me the folding aspect is more a construction and
> Winter storage benefit. If I did someday get a trailer I could store
> the thing in my backyard. Pretty handy!
>
> As to the final figure? Jeff and I independently arrived at about
> $17K for the Wyoming. I think the I60 will be as much, plus the
> sailing rig (spars, sails, line, keel). That's a lot of money. But
as
> I said, I've gambled more, and lost it -- a chapter in my life with
a
> not so happy ending. Building the I60 is the chance to write another
> chapter that ends we me sailing off into the sunset. Seems like a
> gamble I'm willing to make.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
Susan,
Just hoping for more knee room, and no vang to catch on my neck.
David Jost@y...>
> As a builder of both a Frosty and a Tortoise, how would youcompare the two. Could the Tortoise be used as a winter racer?
Just hoping for more knee room, and no vang to catch on my neck.
David Jost@y...>
that, not to
I wanted, so I was looking around at 20 year old + Suburbans.
$4K will get you one in reasonable shape any day of the week. If
you've got time to wait for a deal $2.5 will do the trick.
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>mention the trailer and the Suburban....At one time I was thinking that a Suburban might be the sort of truck
I wanted, so I was looking around at 20 year old + Suburbans.
$4K will get you one in reasonable shape any day of the week. If
you've got time to wait for a deal $2.5 will do the trick.
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> Boat baloney, $2 a pound.That would make it $14k-$16k, which is an okay figure for your
>http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0415/
run of the mill Bolger boat, but the keel and hinges on the I60,
plus that T50, could make this seriously overrun that, not to
mention the trailer and the Suburban....
-- Sue --
(who doesn't have the luxury of foregoing the trailer)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Boat baloney, $2 a pound.
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0415/
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0415/
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > ...lucky if I can get my boat underway for $10K.
>
> You must have some dollar figures attached to your I60 bill of
> materials by now, please post them to the group. [I am *really*
> curious about your ideas about estimating the costs of building a
> boat.]
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:The big wildcards on this project are the keel and hinges. Commodity
>> ...lucky if I can get my boat underway for $10K.
>
>You must have some dollar figures attached to your I60 bill of
>materials by now, please post them to the group. [I am *really*
>curious about your ideas about estimating the costs of building a
>boat.]
price for lead is $.25/pound. I'm figuring the markup is going to
100% and I'm hoping that actually pouring the thing will double that
price, or about $3000 for the lead wings. But that's just an out of
my ass guess. There's the rest of the machinery as well, and I may
have to use real (read "expensive') marine type metal because I
intend to keep the boat in the water 7-9 month out of the year at
least.
There's the motor of course, anything from a stolen 25hp for nuthin'
to a brand new Yamaha T50 for about $6K. I'd like to have the T50 for
when I fail to heed Pete's advice and buck the current up the St.L
The other place this design looks like it could really hurt you is on
line -- she's going to have a lot of string to pull and some of it is
going be the real stuff. Ouch!
Fortunately my own circumstances don't require a truck/trailer. So
that helps. For me the folding aspect is more a construction and
Winter storage benefit. If I did someday get a trailer I could store
the thing in my backyard. Pretty handy!
As to the final figure? Jeff and I independently arrived at about
$17K for the Wyoming. I think the I60 will be as much, plus the
sailing rig (spars, sails, line, keel). That's a lot of money. But as
I said, I've gambled more, and lost it -- a chapter in my life with a
not so happy ending. Building the I60 is the chance to write another
chapter that ends we me sailing off into the sunset. Seems like a
gamble I'm willing to make.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
materials by now, please post them to the group. [I am *really*
curious about your ideas about estimating the costs of building a
boat.]
> ...lucky if I can get my boat underway for $10K.You must have some dollar figures attached to your I60 bill of
materials by now, please post them to the group. [I am *really*
curious about your ideas about estimating the costs of building a
boat.]
> That's all good an' fine matey,but ya has ta have a galley wench(orI think you misspelled "cabin boy." It's spelled C-A-B-I-N B-O-Y. :-)
> two) if the crews ever goin' ta be truely happy!
-- Sue --
(not that I mind galley wenches, mind you....)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> In this race, I wonder if my $100 Tortoise could beat a $10,000 I60?No, because I'd bring *my* $100 Tortoise to such a race. :-)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>I forget in which book [Folding Schooner, I think] where PCB proposedClever.
>racing rules that require the Owner of the racing boat to bring the
>title to the boat and declare a selling price. Lower prices received
>greater handicaps, and the winner of the race was required to offer
>to sell his/her boat at the pre-race declared price.
The two sort of racing that have the most appeal to me are one design
and unlimited. One design because I've always like the aesthetic
effect of repetition of form, and unlimited because I think the boats
are marvels of technology
>In this race, I wonder if my $100 Tortoise could beat a $10,000 I60?I'll count myself very, very lucky if I can get my boat underway for
$10K. If I do, I won't have to name her "Insolvent" after all.
>BTW, I think that for maximum "tweak effect" the sails of the I60Too expensive! I'm prowling used sail lofts. Lots of big pieces of
>*must* be sewn from Contractor's grade Tyvek building wrap, the stuff
>with the "Tyvek" logo printed all over it! [Or, blue poly tarp...or
>perhaps, a mix match set.]
canvas out there cheap if you don't mind a few rust stains or missing
hanks. My total cost for canvassing the LSME was about $25
>Back when I60 first appeared in MAIB, I showed it to my 'yachtI don't know where you all keep finding these snooty yatch types. As
>racing' buddy who rolled his eyes and said "yeah, you might win a
>race, but you wouldn't get invited to the after race party, [so
>what's the point?]"!
far as my experience goes, rich people are at least as gracious and
pleasant as people people and considerably more so than the average
middle class joe. ;-)
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
That's all good an' fine matey,but ya has ta have a galley wench(or
two) if the crews ever goin' ta be truely happy!
Sincerely,
epoxy pete,captain to a first class galley wench,Pesky(who will
surely keel haul me for this one!) aaaarrrrrrrggghhhhhh, or
perhaps,oooooooooooch,from the bitter cold shores of the
St.Lawrence...
two) if the crews ever goin' ta be truely happy!
Sincerely,
epoxy pete,captain to a first class galley wench,Pesky(who will
surely keel haul me for this one!) aaaarrrrrrrggghhhhhh, or
perhaps,oooooooooooch,from the bitter cold shores of the
St.Lawrence...
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> big gold earrings.....
> and most importantly, a big black flag with the skull and
crossbones!
>
> > From: brucehector [mailto:bruce_hector@h...]
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: I60 budget
>
> > Wide, navy blue & whie horizontaly striped T-shirts,
> > Tanbark canvas jeans,
> > Rope soled sandals or bare feet,
> > Rope work belts,
> > Brightly coloured, but mismatched bandanas as head cover, except
for
> > the skipper's tricorn hat,
> > Hook hands, peg legs, and eye patches,
> > Assorted cutlasses, hangers, pistols, and blunderbusses,
> > Obligatory rum keg-ettes for each crew member,
> > A smattering of plastic parrots,
> > .... what have I forgotten?
> >
> > Bruce Hector
> > www.aaarrrggghhhhhh.csn
> >
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
racing rules that require the Owner of the racing boat to bring the
title to the boat and declare a selling price. Lower prices received
greater handicaps, and the winner of the race was required to offer
to sell his/her boat at the pre-race declared price.
In this race, I wonder if my $100 Tortoise could beat a $10,000 I60?
BTW, I think that for maximum "tweak effect" the sails of the I60
*must* be sewn from Contractor's grade Tyvek building wrap, the stuff
with the "Tyvek" logo printed all over it! [Or, blue poly tarp...or
perhaps, a mix match set.]
Back when I60 first appeared in MAIB, I showed it to my 'yacht
racing' buddy who rolled his eyes and said "yeah, you might win a
race, but you wouldn't get invited to the after race party, [so
what's the point?]"!
> The fun per dollar quotient should be off the charts.I forget in which book [Folding Schooner, I think] where PCB proposed
racing rules that require the Owner of the racing boat to bring the
title to the boat and declare a selling price. Lower prices received
greater handicaps, and the winner of the race was required to offer
to sell his/her boat at the pre-race declared price.
In this race, I wonder if my $100 Tortoise could beat a $10,000 I60?
BTW, I think that for maximum "tweak effect" the sails of the I60
*must* be sewn from Contractor's grade Tyvek building wrap, the stuff
with the "Tyvek" logo printed all over it! [Or, blue poly tarp...or
perhaps, a mix match set.]
Back when I60 first appeared in MAIB, I showed it to my 'yacht
racing' buddy who rolled his eyes and said "yeah, you might win a
race, but you wouldn't get invited to the after race party, [so
what's the point?]"!
big gold earrings.....
and most importantly, a big black flag with the skull and crossbones!
and most importantly, a big black flag with the skull and crossbones!
> From: brucehector [mailto:bruce_hector@...]
> Subject: [bolger] Re: I60 budget
> Wide, navy blue & whie horizontaly striped T-shirts,
> Tanbark canvas jeans,
> Rope soled sandals or bare feet,
> Rope work belts,
> Brightly coloured, but mismatched bandanas as head cover, except for
> the skipper's tricorn hat,
> Hook hands, peg legs, and eye patches,
> Assorted cutlasses, hangers, pistols, and blunderbusses,
> Obligatory rum keg-ettes for each crew member,
> A smattering of plastic parrots,
> .... what have I forgotten?
>
> Bruce Hector
> www.aaarrrggghhhhhh.csn
>
> VPP?VPP = Velocity Prediction Program, which is the basic tool for
setting the handicap ratings for IMS racing.
I know that all the talk of racing with the big boys is pretty much
in jest but it should be kept in context. To begin with, it is not at
all clear to me that the I60 would be given an IMS rating if one was
applied for. Various standards and equipment requirements must be met
per the established racers idea of how to go about it. This includes
lifelines, for example, that would certainly interfere with the
folding process.
For all Mr. Bolger's enthusiasm for his own design and distain for
the current fashion in racing boats, I don't think the I60 is going
to be much of a match for a modern 60' ocean racer, except perhaps
for certain wind strengths on some off-wind courses. Remember the IMS
boat is going to be flying all those expensive headsails that we love
to hate and hate to pay for, and they are themselves of high-tech
light weight construction. However the out-of-pocket for the I60 may
be less than for the world's best equipped J-24 (including all brand
new high tech sails) and waterline length will definitely tell the
tale.
The fun per dollar quotient should be off the charts.
How deep is Lake Champlain? How bad will you feel if hit the Lakes's
rumored cousin to the Loch Ness Monster on the head?
Peter
VPP?
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
snip
>
> Never mind the measurer -- I think the VPP is going to have
> conniption fits. I'm quite certain that it isn't optimized
> for hard-chined ULDB hulls that are ten beams long. The
> question, of course, is whether they'll think I'm too fast
> or too slow....
>
>snip
> I was thinking of a comment Bolger made in BWOM, that "..boats likePerhaps not -- PCB was referring to a group of professional builders
> this have been built in a day...". This is likely an exageration
assembling prefabricated parts according to a method rehearsed in
advance. Which is more or less what you're proposing (modulo the
"professional" part), isn't it?
> Why not harness this enthusiasm inWe're actually going to do something similar in a couple of months
> one or more boat-building bees, kind of like old-time barn raisings.
(to produce tenders for our I60s), but with several small boats
instead of one large one. I've always thought that a similar concept
could be an efficient way to start (or revitalize) a one-design
fleet, junior sailing program, or summer camp....
> I would see a building weekend, or long weekend, with 10-20 keenIn fact, what I'd been planning to do at that point was to dragoon
> volunteers taking part. The owners would have to do a lot of
> preparation: lots of parts pre-cut, plenty of tools, oodles of
> epoxy, and a master plan for the weekend. This could probably best
> be done in the "go 3-D" stage, where big panels have to be lifted
> and fastened.
all of my local friends into helping. But with all of the
enthusiasm for the project that's been expressed, this could be
a good idea. We'd need to do it twice (upstate and downstate),
and it'd be subject to everyone's availability, but the assembly
stages won't probably happen until some time in 2003, anyway, so
there'd be plenty of time to try to work out feasible times.
I can actually see two different points per boat where this
approach might be helpful: Hull Day (turning prefabricated parts
into hull sections) and Final Assembly Day (putting the keel in
the center section, the masts in the tabernacles, the motor in
the well, and then fastening the hull sections together). If
done right, Final Assembly Day could easily turn in to Launch
Day, and end with everyone going for a sail....
> The owners could also supply a back yard to camp inUnfortunately, the boat is going to take over the back yard for
> and possibly some refreshments.
a while, but I do have a guest room, an office, a finished attic,
and a futon in the living room.
> I might even consider coming over from Norway for such an event!Wow, that would be really neat! If you do, I look forward to
meeting you!
-- Sue --
(Sadly, the I60's hinges and latches probably wouldn't stand up
to a crossing of the Atlantic and North Sea to visit Tromso. Hmm,
but if we reinforced them with some nice, sturdy bolts....)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>there
> I grabbed the parts for the Tortoise from Home Despot; are
> better places around town to get plywood, lumber, marinesupplies,
> and outboard motors?Sue,
>
> -- Sue --
> (sadly, the good epoxy weather is now gone for a while)
>
I haven't found any better place than the Depot so far, but I
haven't tried every possible place yet. I had a hard time finding
just three sheets of 1/4 inch ACX ply that weren't full of those
nasty putty patches. I'm told that Pittsford Lumber has slightly
higher-grade plywood, but they're never open when I'm prowling
for ply. As far as marine supplies are concerned, just the usual
two chain stores. The Boating Center in East Rochester seems
slightly cheaper, but the selection is thin. I got my present 5hp
Tohatsu outboard at Ras Outboards,on Rt 104 in Parma. They're
very helpful and carry all the usual makes.
Lee Rust
Rochester NY
> And they said IMS was a type-forming rule......which is a shame, since the whole point of IMS was that it
was supposed to be the great equalizer: show up on the line with
whatever boat you have handy, and thanks to our Sophisticated
Computer Technology (tm), we can figure out how to subtract out
the differences between your boat and all the others, even
accounting for different wind conditions. It was also supposed
to have gotten rid of stripped-out bare racing interiors and
brought back decent comfort for offshore racing. Sigh.
> The measurer is going to have a heart attack when he sees this one!It's not the measurer that I want to give the heart attack to --
it's the rest of the IMS A fleet. *evil grin*
Or IMS B, depending on whether 60' gets you in to class 'A' with
the maxis or not. I don't remember there being much between the
50 footers and the maxis, though, other than the sleds, which I60
resembles much more closely, both technically and culturally.
-- Sue --
(but I still want a piece of Larry Ellison :-) )
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> || IMS certificateNever mind the measurer -- I think the VPP is going to have
>
> And they said IMS was a type-forming rule... The measurer is going
> to have a heart attack when he sees this one! LOL
conniption fits. I'm quite certain that it isn't optimized
for hard-chined ULDB hulls that are ten beams long. The
question, of course, is whether they'll think I'm too fast
or too slow....
-- Sue --
(and the motor well might blow VPP's poor little mind)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Wide, navy blue & whie horizontaly striped T-shirts,
Tanbark canvas jeans,
Rope soled sandals or bare feet,
Rope work belts,
Brightly coloured, but mismatched bandanas as head cover, except for
the skipper's tricorn hat,
Hook hands, peg legs, and eye patches,
Assorted cutlasses, hangers, pistols, and blunderbusses,
Obligatory rum keg-ettes for each crew member,
A smattering of plastic parrots,
.... what have I forgotten?
Bruce Hector
www.aaarrrggghhhhhh.csn
Tanbark canvas jeans,
Rope soled sandals or bare feet,
Rope work belts,
Brightly coloured, but mismatched bandanas as head cover, except for
the skipper's tricorn hat,
Hook hands, peg legs, and eye patches,
Assorted cutlasses, hangers, pistols, and blunderbusses,
Obligatory rum keg-ettes for each crew member,
A smattering of plastic parrots,
.... what have I forgotten?
Bruce Hector
www.aaarrrggghhhhhh.csn
Boom box and submerged speaker
purple underwater lights
offensive bumper stickers
very large pants
fluorescent spray paint
purple underwater lights
offensive bumper stickers
very large pants
fluorescent spray paint
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >Blue blazer
> >White slacks/skirt
> >Nautical Tie
> >"Captain's" hat
>
> Peter, you're confused. This is the Insolent, not the Illinois ;-)
>
> -D
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>Blue blazerPeter, you're confused. This is the Insolent, not the Illinois ;-)
>White slacks/skirt
>Nautical Tie
>"Captain's" hat
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>Is someone going to finance the finishing of the plans?Yes someone is.
>
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Blue blazer
White slacks/skirt
Nautical Tie
"Captain's" hat
White slacks/skirt
Nautical Tie
"Captain's" hat
You both left out the beer. This job looks to be a fifteen kegger, at
least....
;op
porky
least....
;op
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > 100 sheets 1/2" plywood
> > 1000 bf lumber
> > 40 gallons epoxy
> > 40 gallons poach paint
> > 2000 ft square glass cloth
> > 30 lbs screws
> > 1000 ft line
> > 6 sheets lexan
> > 1 keel assembly including her 3000 lbs lead wing (to make her
stiff
> and fast!)
> > 2 hinge assemblies
> > Sails
> > Outboard motor
>
> trailer
> Suburban (or full-sized pickup, or rent twice per year)
> keel hydraulics
> flotation/insulation foam
> blocks/pintles/gudgeons
> navigation lights
> cabin lights
> battery bank and charging system
> EPIRB
> VHF
> GPS
> compass
> bilge pump
> propane stove
> galley sink
> M.S.D.
> cabin heater
> berth and settee cushions
> anchors and warps
> Gloucester Light Dory :-)
> NYS registration
> IMS certificate
> life jackets/harnesses/LifeSling/charts/flags/first aid kit/other
gear
>
> -- Sue --
> (and if you're feeling gold-plated: watermaker, autohelm, SSB,
> wind instruments, solar panels, refrigeration, et cetera)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
I would love to see how this thing hinges or slides together.
And I thought the 30' Folding schooner was a master piece! Heck, I bought
the plans just to drool over.
Is someone going to finance the finishing of the plans?
Jeff
And I thought the 30' Folding schooner was a master piece! Heck, I bought
the plans just to drool over.
Is someone going to finance the finishing of the plans?
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "futabachan" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:30 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: I60 budget
|| IMS certificate
And they said IMS was a type-forming rule... The measurer is going to have a
heart attack when he sees this one! LOL
JB
>trailerEasily dispensed with by living in Montauk!
>Suburban (or full-sized pickup, or rent twice per year)
>keel hydraulicsSee keel assembly
>flotation/insulation foam10,000 lbs = approx 166 ft^3. water displacement
2 part foam = 4 ft^3/gallon
41 gallons @ $&22/gallon
>blocks/pintles/gudgeonsAgain living in Montauk pays big dividends. With a cordless drill and
sawsall all manner of servicable hardware can be harvested from the
abandoned hulks that litter the East End.
>navigation lightsYou're going to travel at night?
>cabin lightsWho needs lights with all those windows?
>EPIRBJust where are you taking this thing?
>VHF
>GPS
>compass
>bilge pumpBailing buckets!
>propane stoveKaboom!
>galley sinkJunkyard
>M.S.D.I don't even want to know
>cabin heaterSweaters
>berth and settee cushionsBad for your back
>anchors and warpsGot me
>Gloucester Light Dory :-)I already have one of those (nearly)
>NYS registrationA good reason to leave the motor off!
>IMS certificateYou're not really?
>life jackets/harnesses/LifeSling/charts/flags/first aid kit/other gearI guess you are!
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> I'd be glad to help out.Yay! I'm right across town; that'll be wonderful!
>
> Lee Rust
> Rochester NY
I grabbed the parts for the Tortoise from Home Despot; are there
better places around town to get plywood, lumber, marine supplies,
and outboard motors?
-- Sue --
(sadly, the good epoxy weather is now gone for a while)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> 100 sheets 1/2" plywoodand fast!)
> 1000 bf lumber
> 40 gallons epoxy
> 40 gallons poach paint
> 2000 ft square glass cloth
> 30 lbs screws
> 1000 ft line
> 6 sheets lexan
> 1 keel assembly including her 3000 lbs lead wing (to make her stiff
> 2 hinge assembliestrailer
> Sails
> Outboard motor
Suburban (or full-sized pickup, or rent twice per year)
keel hydraulics
flotation/insulation foam
blocks/pintles/gudgeons
navigation lights
cabin lights
battery bank and charging system
EPIRB
VHF
GPS
compass
bilge pump
propane stove
galley sink
M.S.D.
cabin heater
berth and settee cushions
anchors and warps
Gloucester Light Dory :-)
NYS registration
IMS certificate
life jackets/harnesses/LifeSling/charts/flags/first aid kit/other gear
-- Sue --
(and if you're feeling gold-plated: watermaker, autohelm, SSB,
wind instruments, solar panels, refrigeration, et cetera)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Where can I see this I60?
Jeff
Jeff
> I'm in the northwestern Catskills, near Oneonta.I have friends who live near Palenville and Catskill, but I've
never actually been there so I'm not quite sure where that is.
> It is something of aOh, yay, that would be great! Thanks!
> haul from here to Rochester
> but I am nonetheless game. If nothing else, I can
> certainly sew some sails right here
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Umm, I think you are low on the epoxy. I'm going to wind up using*blink* *blink* Which CLC design are you building that needs 20
> 20 gallons on the CLC.
gallons?
-- Sue --
(wondering whether I'm expanding the acronym differently)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Umm, I think you are low on the epoxy. I'm going to wind up using 20
gallons on the CLC.
gallons on the CLC.
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >What I'd like to know is what is the budget for these beauties?
What
> >a great project!
> >
> >JB
>
> Here's my guess for bill of materials. Granted I'm working from a
> couple of concept sketches, but this is what I do for a living so
I'm
> usually pretty close ;-)
>
> 100 sheets 1/2" plywood
> 1000 bf lumber
> 40 gallons epoxy
> 40 gallons poach paint
> 2000 ft square glass cloth
> 30 lbs screws
> 1000 ft line
> 6 sheets lexan
> 1 keel assembly including her 3000 lbs lead wing (to make her stiff
and fast!)
> 2 hinge assemblies
> Sails
> Outboard motor
>
> Of course that still leaves things like anchors, a toilet,
cushions,
> stove, etc.
>
> My construction philosophy will be to use the best I can where it
> counts, and the cheapest I can get away with for anything that can
be
> upgraded later, or will need to be replaced.
>
> She ain't going to be cheap, but I've wagered more on things with a
> much less certain chance of return. I'd say the I60 is even money
at
> least ;-)
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
> > Where are the building sites to be?Insolent, and audacious too. That's what it's all about!
>
> Montauk and Rochester, NY, respectively.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
I'd be glad to help out.
Lee Rust
Rochester NY
>What I'd like to know is what is the budget for these beauties? WhatHere's my guess for bill of materials. Granted I'm working from a
>a great project!
>
>JB
couple of concept sketches, but this is what I do for a living so I'm
usually pretty close ;-)
100 sheets 1/2" plywood
1000 bf lumber
40 gallons epoxy
40 gallons poach paint
2000 ft square glass cloth
30 lbs screws
1000 ft line
6 sheets lexan
1 keel assembly including her 3000 lbs lead wing (to make her stiff and fast!)
2 hinge assemblies
Sails
Outboard motor
Of course that still leaves things like anchors, a toilet, cushions,
stove, etc.
My construction philosophy will be to use the best I can where it
counts, and the cheapest I can get away with for anything that can be
upgraded later, or will need to be replaced.
She ain't going to be cheap, but I've wagered more on things with a
much less certain chance of return. I'd say the I60 is even money at
least ;-)
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Dan --
No need to wait till 2003! I've already got the LSME and lil'winne.
Clearly we need to meet up on the sound and take more pictures of
each other boats underway!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
No need to wait till 2003! I've already got the LSME and lil'winne.
Clearly we need to meet up on the sound and take more pictures of
each other boats underway!
YIBB,
David
>I'm glad you checked back in, Dan. Your web page is an inspiration. ClydeC.E.P.
>
>Dan_Gonneau wrote:
>
>> I haven't been to the Bolger group lately, and I just stumbled on
>> the Mother of All Folding Schooners. Very very very very very cool.
>> I sail my Long Micro out of Shelter Island, so I look forward to
>> seeing you guys out in Gardiners Bay next year! Good luck!
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Long Micro pages:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr.htm
>>
>> --- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
>> > > Even one of these boats would be worth driving across
>> > > New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
>> >
>> > Well, we'll be bringing them to the Lake Champlain
>> Messabout,
>> > either next year or the year after.
>> >
>> > > Where are the building sites to be?
>> >
>> > Montauk and Rochester, NY, respectively.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Bruce and List:
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't got a clue how the keel
works, except to guess that it has something to do with the way
parallelograms collapse. In our last correspondence with PCB&F they
told us that another boat using a half-scale version of the same idea
is nearly put together. Hopefully whatever lessons are learned from
that will find their way into the I60
If I'm reading the drawing correctly, both masts are on the
centerline, but fold slightly off center so they clear each other
The offset folding is a novel idea indeed! However, the canoe stern
shown in the study was a wishlist item from the original commission.
Our boats will have a square stern, which might interfere with your
offset fold. They will also be a foot wider.
The cabin is very "birdwatchesque" and I had actually imagined and
wondered about the "practicality" of an oversized birdwatcher type.
The cabin is one of my favorite aspects of this boat.
One of the things I don't like about most sailboats is that the
interiors are "below" deck. In most sailboats if guests start to get
cold/windblown/sunburned, their only recourse is to hide out in a
dark, cramped cabin. In fact, one the big reasons I nearly went for
the Wyoming is that it offers is the chance to enjoy being underway
with still being sheltered.
I think the I60 will offer much the same thing. Even taking into
account the keel truck and the foremast tabernacle, there's still a
wide open cabin roughly 15x7 with standing headroom, (bigger than the
bedroom in my apt. and nearly as big as the living room!) On top of
that, the entire cabin is windowed! With that kind of indoor space
and light, she will be a most gracious cruiser indeed!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't got a clue how the keel
works, except to guess that it has something to do with the way
parallelograms collapse. In our last correspondence with PCB&F they
told us that another boat using a half-scale version of the same idea
is nearly put together. Hopefully whatever lessons are learned from
that will find their way into the I60
If I'm reading the drawing correctly, both masts are on the
centerline, but fold slightly off center so they clear each other
The offset folding is a novel idea indeed! However, the canoe stern
shown in the study was a wishlist item from the original commission.
Our boats will have a square stern, which might interfere with your
offset fold. They will also be a foot wider.
The cabin is very "birdwatchesque" and I had actually imagined and
wondered about the "practicality" of an oversized birdwatcher type.
The cabin is one of my favorite aspects of this boat.
One of the things I don't like about most sailboats is that the
interiors are "below" deck. In most sailboats if guests start to get
cold/windblown/sunburned, their only recourse is to hide out in a
dark, cramped cabin. In fact, one the big reasons I nearly went for
the Wyoming is that it offers is the chance to enjoy being underway
with still being sheltered.
I think the I60 will offer much the same thing. Even taking into
account the keel truck and the foremast tabernacle, there's still a
wide open cabin roughly 15x7 with standing headroom, (bigger than the
bedroom in my apt. and nearly as big as the living room!) On top of
that, the entire cabin is windowed! With that kind of indoor space
and light, she will be a most gracious cruiser indeed!
YIBB,
David
>A) The geometry of the folding keel "diagonal" doesn't make sense toC.E.P.
>me yet. [See red circles on sketch] Are the boxy marks on the PB&F
>drawing wells to allow the keel diagonal arms to pass through the
>hull? Do these diagonal arms get streamlined in anyway, or catch
>seaweed, etc.?
>
>B) [See blue mark] What is this circular thing? My first guess is a
>tapernacled mast, but there are two masts and neither are on
>centerline. Or is this part of the folding keel assembly? Also, it
>looks like the Insolent60 has a "Birdwatcher" style cabin, true?
>
>C) The total length is limited by the folding stem and stern touching
>at the center point [see green arrow], it seems to me that if the
>folding hinges were skewed 5 degrees or so [green lines], the points
>of the stem and stern could offset, gaining at least another 10 feet,
>why not an Insolent70?
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
"possibly the owners could supply some refreshments...", what do yo
mean ... possibly!
Bruce Hector
www.amber-throat-charmer.can
mean ... possibly!
Bruce Hector
www.amber-throat-charmer.can
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
mainmast? It doesn't appear to be part of the centerboard. The deal
that is supposed to keep the wing parallel to the waterline is inside
the welded keel, I beleive.
What I'd like to know is what is the budget for these beauties? What
a great project!
JB
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:to
>
> A) The geometry of the folding keel "diagonal" doesn't make sense
> me yet. [See red circles on sketch] Are the boxy marks on the PB&FAre you sure that the framework isn't part of the tabernacle for the
> drawing wells to allow the keel diagonal arms to pass through the
> hull? Do these diagonal arms get streamlined in anyway, or catch
> seaweed, etc.?
>
mainmast? It doesn't appear to be part of the centerboard. The deal
that is supposed to keep the wing parallel to the waterline is inside
the welded keel, I beleive.
What I'd like to know is what is the budget for these beauties? What
a great project!
JB
I'm glad you checked back in, Dan. Your web page is an inspiration. Clyde
Dan_Gonneau wrote:
Dan_Gonneau wrote:
> I haven't been to the Bolger group lately, and I just stumbled on
> the Mother of All Folding Schooners. Very very very very very cool.
> I sail my Long Micro out of Shelter Island, so I look forward to
> seeing you guys out in Gardiners Bay next year! Good luck!
>
> Dan
>
> Long Micro pages:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr.htm
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > > Even one of these boats would be worth driving across
> > > New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
> >
> > Well, we'll be bringing them to the Lake Champlain
> Messabout,
> > either next year or the year after.
> >
> > > Where are the building sites to be?
> >
> > Montauk and Rochester, NY, respectively.
> >
> > --
> > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
I have studied the PB&F drawings in MAIB for a long time, and still
cannot figure out two things.
Ref:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Insolent60/Insolent60.gif
A) The geometry of the folding keel "diagonal" doesn't make sense to
me yet. [See red circles on sketch] Are the boxy marks on the PB&F
drawing wells to allow the keel diagonal arms to pass through the
hull? Do these diagonal arms get streamlined in anyway, or catch
seaweed, etc.?
B) [See blue mark] What is this circular thing? My first guess is a
tapernacled mast, but there are two masts and neither are on
centerline. Or is this part of the folding keel assembly? Also, it
looks like the Insolent60 has a "Birdwatcher" style cabin, true?
C) The total length is limited by the folding stem and stern touching
at the center point [see green arrow], it seems to me that if the
folding hinges were skewed 5 degrees or so [green lines], the points
of the stem and stern could offset, gaining at least another 10 feet,
why not an Insolent70?
> And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that SusanNow that brings *me* some happiness! Hooray!
> Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
> agreed! With any luck this Fall we'll begin construction on
> a matched pair of Insolent 60s.
I have studied the PB&F drawings in MAIB for a long time, and still
cannot figure out two things.
Ref:http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Insolent60/Insolent60.gif
A) The geometry of the folding keel "diagonal" doesn't make sense to
me yet. [See red circles on sketch] Are the boxy marks on the PB&F
drawing wells to allow the keel diagonal arms to pass through the
hull? Do these diagonal arms get streamlined in anyway, or catch
seaweed, etc.?
B) [See blue mark] What is this circular thing? My first guess is a
tapernacled mast, but there are two masts and neither are on
centerline. Or is this part of the folding keel assembly? Also, it
looks like the Insolent60 has a "Birdwatcher" style cabin, true?
C) The total length is limited by the folding stem and stern touching
at the center point [see green arrow], it seems to me that if the
folding hinges were skewed 5 degrees or so [green lines], the points
of the stem and stern could offset, gaining at least another 10 feet,
why not an Insolent70?
Daniel!!!
What fun to see you on the list again. I've still got your e-mail
about Baffin Island! One of these days....
One of the things that made the Insolent seem possible was a long
convo I had with Jeff Blunk (Wyo!) He told me that nearly the entire
boat could be cut out prior to assembly. He also has some really cool
ideas to assure alinement, fit, etc. I did the same thing on a
smaller scale with my Scooner, fashioning bulkheads and topsides in
my living room during the Winter and hauling it all out to my
driveway in the Spring for assembly.
Sue and I are going to do a mini "building bee" over the Memorial Day
weekend. I'm building the Gull jig as well as the transoms and stems
for three boats, Sue's driving down with the side panels. Another
friend is coming out bringing his family, carpentry expertise, and
enthusiasm. Hopefully they'll both drive home with hulls ready to be
fitted out and painted.
I already told my wife I was damn tempted to fly out to Colorado to
help Jeff and his sons when it comes time for the heavy lifting. I'd
certainly do the same thing for anyone within driving distance!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
What fun to see you on the list again. I've still got your e-mail
about Baffin Island! One of these days....
One of the things that made the Insolent seem possible was a long
convo I had with Jeff Blunk (Wyo!) He told me that nearly the entire
boat could be cut out prior to assembly. He also has some really cool
ideas to assure alinement, fit, etc. I did the same thing on a
smaller scale with my Scooner, fashioning bulkheads and topsides in
my living room during the Winter and hauling it all out to my
driveway in the Spring for assembly.
Sue and I are going to do a mini "building bee" over the Memorial Day
weekend. I'm building the Gull jig as well as the transoms and stems
for three boats, Sue's driving down with the side panels. Another
friend is coming out bringing his family, carpentry expertise, and
enthusiasm. Hopefully they'll both drive home with hulls ready to be
fitted out and painted.
I already told my wife I was damn tempted to fly out to Colorado to
help Jeff and his sons when it comes time for the heavy lifting. I'd
certainly do the same thing for anyone within driving distance!
YIBB,
David
>HiC.E.P.
>
>Well I have to admire the sheer audacity of those who would embark on
>such an ambitious project. This applies to our fearless Wyoming
>builders too.
>
>I was thinking of a comment Bolger made in BWOM, that "..boats like
>this have been built in a day...". This is likely an exageration, but
>it seems like there is lots of enthusiasm for this kind of project in
>this group and probably elsewhere. Why not harness this enthusiasm in
>one or more boat-building bees, kind of like old-time barn raisings.
>
>I would see a building weekend, or long weekend, with 10-20 keen
>volunteers taking part. The owners would have to do a lot of
>preparation: lots of parts pre-cut, plenty of tools, oodles of epoxy,
>and a master plan for the weekend. This could probably best be done
>in the "go 3-D" stage, where big panels have to be lifted and
>fastened. Also multiple layers of plywood must take a lot of
>fastening work. The owners could also supply a back yard to camp in
>and possibly some refreshments.
>
>Another possible stage suitable for such an event would be fairing,
>sanding and finishing.
>
>Just think how much you could get done over a weekend with so many
>willing hands! And I think it could be a lot of fun for everyone
>involved. I might even consider coming over from Norway for such an
>event!
>
>Good luck with your projects,
>
>Daniel Pike
>Tromso, Norway
>Where the best time of year for skiing has just begun.
>
>
>
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> FBBB --
>>
>> Some of you may have some idea what a powerful and positive effect
>> boat building has had on me. No, it didn't save me from alcohol or
>> suicide. It just makes me feel good! It feels good to make
>something
>> with my hands, and it feels even better to enjoy the fruits of my
>> labors on a warm Summer's day.
>>
>> This list has been a big part of my enjoyment. When not building or
>> boating, I can think about building and boat, share ideas and
>stories
>> and most of all, keep the fire stoked. It's all to easy to let the
>> days go by and have nothing to show for it. This list keeps me
>fired
>> up. Hearing Jeff's stories of gathering materials for his Wyo keeps
>> me fired up. Seeing Bruce's pages of great big dream boat keeps me
>> fired up. All of you, with your endless arguments about sloops vs.
>> yawls, polyester vs. epoxy, keep me fired up!
>>
>> And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
>> Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
>> agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction
>on
>> a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
>> beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
>> too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
>> Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
>>
>> I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
>> These can be seen at:
>>
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Hi
Well I have to admire the sheer audacity of those who would embark on
such an ambitious project. This applies to our fearless Wyoming
builders too.
I was thinking of a comment Bolger made in BWOM, that "..boats like
this have been built in a day...". This is likely an exageration, but
it seems like there is lots of enthusiasm for this kind of project in
this group and probably elsewhere. Why not harness this enthusiasm in
one or more boat-building bees, kind of like old-time barn raisings.
I would see a building weekend, or long weekend, with 10-20 keen
volunteers taking part. The owners would have to do a lot of
preparation: lots of parts pre-cut, plenty of tools, oodles of epoxy,
and a master plan for the weekend. This could probably best be done
in the "go 3-D" stage, where big panels have to be lifted and
fastened. Also multiple layers of plywood must take a lot of
fastening work. The owners could also supply a back yard to camp in
and possibly some refreshments.
Another possible stage suitable for such an event would be fairing,
sanding and finishing.
Just think how much you could get done over a weekend with so many
willing hands! And I think it could be a lot of fun for everyone
involved. I might even consider coming over from Norway for such an
event!
Good luck with your projects,
Daniel Pike
Tromso, Norway
Where the best time of year for skiing has just begun.
Well I have to admire the sheer audacity of those who would embark on
such an ambitious project. This applies to our fearless Wyoming
builders too.
I was thinking of a comment Bolger made in BWOM, that "..boats like
this have been built in a day...". This is likely an exageration, but
it seems like there is lots of enthusiasm for this kind of project in
this group and probably elsewhere. Why not harness this enthusiasm in
one or more boat-building bees, kind of like old-time barn raisings.
I would see a building weekend, or long weekend, with 10-20 keen
volunteers taking part. The owners would have to do a lot of
preparation: lots of parts pre-cut, plenty of tools, oodles of epoxy,
and a master plan for the weekend. This could probably best be done
in the "go 3-D" stage, where big panels have to be lifted and
fastened. Also multiple layers of plywood must take a lot of
fastening work. The owners could also supply a back yard to camp in
and possibly some refreshments.
Another possible stage suitable for such an event would be fairing,
sanding and finishing.
Just think how much you could get done over a weekend with so many
willing hands! And I think it could be a lot of fun for everyone
involved. I might even consider coming over from Norway for such an
event!
Good luck with your projects,
Daniel Pike
Tromso, Norway
Where the best time of year for skiing has just begun.
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> Some of you may have some idea what a powerful and positive effect
> boat building has had on me. No, it didn't save me from alcohol or
> suicide. It just makes me feel good! It feels good to make
something
> with my hands, and it feels even better to enjoy the fruits of my
> labors on a warm Summer's day.
>
> This list has been a big part of my enjoyment. When not building or
> boating, I can think about building and boat, share ideas and
stories
> and most of all, keep the fire stoked. It's all to easy to let the
> days go by and have nothing to show for it. This list keeps me
fired
> up. Hearing Jeff's stories of gathering materials for his Wyo keeps
> me fired up. Seeing Bruce's pages of great big dream boat keeps me
> fired up. All of you, with your endless arguments about sloops vs.
> yawls, polyester vs. epoxy, keep me fired up!
>
> And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
> Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
> agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction
on
> a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
> beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
> too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
> Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
>
> I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
> These can be seen at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
Sue,
I'm in the northwestern Catskills, near Oneonta. It is something of a
haul from here to Rochester (especially during that annual eight
month long meteorological disaster sportingly referred to
as "winter") but I am nonetheless game. If nothing else, I can
certainly sew some sails right here (Insolent 60 has plenty of
sails!),
porky
I'm in the northwestern Catskills, near Oneonta. It is something of a
haul from here to Rochester (especially during that annual eight
month long meteorological disaster sportingly referred to
as "winter") but I am nonetheless game. If nothing else, I can
certainly sew some sails right here (Insolent 60 has plenty of
sails!),
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> You're on! Where do you live? I'm in Rochester, NY, and am
> going to be building mine more or less alone, modulo friends
> dropping in once in a while, and modulo some tech support from
> David, PCB, and the rest of the list....
>
> -- Sue --
> (working on getting the shop in order by the time the plans arrive)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
What a beaut! Do you have any more drawings other than the profile?
If so, can you post them here or on your website. I want to see the
crews quarters, the galley, the midshipman's orlop, ... I'm
volunteering to help slop it together and then help pilot it through,
around and I hope, not across, the 1000 Islands.
Bruce Hector
www.brucesboats.com
If so, can you post them here or on your website. I want to see the
crews quarters, the galley, the midshipman's orlop, ... I'm
volunteering to help slop it together and then help pilot it through,
around and I hope, not across, the 1000 Islands.
Bruce Hector
www.brucesboats.com
> This is really getting ahead of curve, but how were you planningI'm planning to sail out Lake Ontario, through the Thousand Islands
> to get your boats to Lake Champlain?
and St. Lawrence Seaway, then down to Champlain from the north.
David is planning to come up the Hudson, through the Champlain
Canal, and enter the lake from the south.
> If the locks allow, I would thinkThe boat actually remains intact through the folding process, and
> going by water would be less trouble than disassembly, loading,
> transit, unloading, and reassembly.
the original design concept involved having electric motors to do
the folding and unfolding. You don't even have to unstep the
masts; they're in tabernacle, and the bow and stern fit over top
of them. The boat is designed to be foldable underway, or at
least "underway" as in the final approach to a boat ramp. I'd
probably want to fold the boat and motor in if I ever had to stop
at a marina, to cut my per-length charges in half.
If the Thousand Islands weren't so beautiful, though, I'd be
tempted to trailer the boat to Champlain, just so that I could
demonstrate the folding/unfolding part and watch the reaction of
any unknowing bystanders.... *evil grin*
-- Sue --
(whose boat got its first open-mouthed stare the other day from a
Home Depot salesman who asked what I was planning to do with all
the tools that I was buying)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I've got the NYS Canal cruising guide. The lowest bridge clearance is
14 feet, quite a bit less than the height of the I60 masts, but
they're tabernacle masts, baby! If we time it right the Lake
Champlain Open will be a part of the circumnavigation!
As far as "trouble" goes, the boat is design to be sufficiently easy
to take down and put together that one could dry store it between
outings (cheaper) and unfold it for even a daysail!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
14 feet, quite a bit less than the height of the I60 masts, but
they're tabernacle masts, baby! If we time it right the Lake
Champlain Open will be a part of the circumnavigation!
As far as "trouble" goes, the boat is design to be sufficiently easy
to take down and put together that one could dry store it between
outings (cheaper) and unfold it for even a daysail!
YIBB,
David
>This is really getting ahead of curve, but how were you planning toC.E.P.
>get your boats to Lake Champlain? If the locks allow, I would think
>going by water would be less trouble than disassembly, loading,
>transit, unloading, and reassembly.
>
>Peter (who really, really hopes he is free to be crew when needed)
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> You can't help but admire those who areWell, that's the beauty of it -- it's not actually that big of a
> willing to bite off far more than typical sane people can even
> conceive of chewing.
project, certainly not on the scale of any other 60 footer. The
hull form is dead simple, and the boat is really just a perfectly
reasonable 30 footer with a pair of perfectly simple 15' skiffs
bolted on the ends. The hard part will be the retractable keel,
but most of that will be subcontracted out, along with the hinges
and fasteners.
There'll be a lot of interior joinerwork to do (take a look at
the accomodations plan for _Loose Moose_, and lop off everything
from the mast forward), but none of that is particularly complex;
there's just a lot of it.
> Rochester is within driving range, so I'll alsoWonderful! The more the merrier, especially on the day when
> want to pitch in once in a while.
the keel gets installed, or the three sections get joined, or
the center hull gets assembled....
-- Sue --
(who'd love to be there when the carrier is built)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
This is really getting ahead of curve, but how were you planning to
get your boats to Lake Champlain? If the locks allow, I would think
going by water would be less trouble than disassembly, loading,
transit, unloading, and reassembly.
Peter (who really, really hopes he is free to be crew when needed)
get your boats to Lake Champlain? If the locks allow, I would think
going by water would be less trouble than disassembly, loading,
transit, unloading, and reassembly.
Peter (who really, really hopes he is free to be crew when needed)
My hat's off to you both. You can't help but admire those who are
willing to bite off far more than typical sane people can even
conceive of chewing. Rochester is within driving range, so I'll also
want to pitch in once in a while. Where is Montauk?
Makes me ashamed of not being able to start the carrier yet.
Good luck and here's to finding a great sale on plywood and epoxy.
Bruce Hector
willing to bite off far more than typical sane people can even
conceive of chewing. Rochester is within driving range, so I'll also
want to pitch in once in a while. Where is Montauk?
Makes me ashamed of not being able to start the carrier yet.
Good luck and here's to finding a great sale on plywood and epoxy.
Bruce Hector
I haven't been to the Bolger group lately, and I just stumbled on
the Mother of All Folding Schooners. Very very very very very cool.
I sail my Long Micro out of Shelter Island, so I look forward to
seeing you guys out in Gardiners Bay next year! Good luck!
Dan
Long Micro pages:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr.htm
the Mother of All Folding Schooners. Very very very very very cool.
I sail my Long Micro out of Shelter Island, so I look forward to
seeing you guys out in Gardiners Bay next year! Good luck!
Dan
Long Micro pages:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr.htm
--- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > Even one of these boats would be worth driving across
> > New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
>
> Well, we'll be bringing them to the Lake Champlain
Messabout,
> either next year or the year after.
>
> > Where are the building sites to be?
>
> Montauk and Rochester, NY, respectively.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
> Even one of these boats would be worth driving acrossWell, we'll be bringing them to the Lake Champlain Messabout,
> New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
either next year or the year after.
> Where are the building sites to be?Montauk and Rochester, NY, respectively.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> How much space will you need to build the boat?Space enough to build a 30'x8' center section. I have a small
back yard that should be just enough, and I can build the bow
and stern in my garage slash boat shop.
> It folds up to be trailered? I can't imagine it.It is an amazingly clever hack. Even if it weren't stunningly
beautiful, and screaming fast, I'd still be tempted to build it
for the sheer hack value. Remember the Folding Schooner, which
folds in half? Imagine sticking an AS29 in between the two
folding sections, which fold over top of the lowered tabernacle
masts. Then imagine a retractable winged keel instead of the
bilgeboards, and a Birdwatcher-style cabin amidships.
> Won't the ballast be a problem for trailering?The keel retracts, folding up under the aft part of the center
section. She needs a Suburban or a big pickup with an ~8000+ lb
towing capacity for hauling, which is a minor "problem" for me
in that I'll need to upgrade to one.
> What form of ballast? Lead not water?Yep.
> How many crew to operate her?Four or more for racing; probably two for comfortable cruising.
She'd be a real handful singlehanded, but you could probably get
away with it. And one of the engine options is a Yamaha T50,
so you could essentially use her as a Wyoming if you were by
yourself.
> Is the build concept instant boat style?Yes. There is absolutely no way that I could possibly loft a
60' boat.
> Mostly quarter inch plywood or something heavier?No idea what the final scantlings will be.
> Wait, the idea must be that you actually build three boats thenYes, although unlike the Breakdown Schooner, the three sections
> put them together, right?
stay attached, Folding Schooner-style. This is essentially the
Mother Of All Folding Schooners.
> The more questions I ask, the more this sounds like one should beWe'd love to have a third builder, to split the design cost three
> built for out here on Puget Sound!
ways rather than two. If you're seriously interested, email me,
and I'll ask PCB how much extra the rights to a third boat would
be.
-- Sue --
(de facto I60 class association secretary :-) )
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Let me know when I can drop by and smear some epoxy on aYou're on! Where do you live? I'm in Rochester, NY, and am
> hull--seriously. I would like to contribute something to this
> project.
going to be building mine more or less alone, modulo friends
dropping in once in a while, and modulo some tech support from
David, PCB, and the rest of the list....
-- Sue --
(working on getting the shop in order by the time the plans arrive)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Congratulations to both of you on the birth of projects of majestic
proportions. Even one of these boats would be worth driving across
New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
Where are the building sites to be?
Peter
proportions. Even one of these boats would be worth driving across
New England to see. Two is beyond imagination.
Where are the building sites to be?
Peter
David (and Sue),
Great idea! I have already plunked your website on to my favorites list and
will be checking for progress. Can I ask a few questions?
How much space will you need to build the boat?
It folds up to be trailered? I can't imagine it.
Won't the ballast be a problem for trailering? What form of ballast? Lead not
water?
How many crew to operate her?
Is the build concept instant boat style?
Mostly quarter inch plywood or something heavier?
Wait, the idea must be that you actually build three boats then put them
together, right?
The more questions I ask, the more this sounds like one should be built for
out here on Puget Sound!
Mike Masten
In a message dated 3/19/02 7:53:25 PM,david@...writes:
Great idea! I have already plunked your website on to my favorites list and
will be checking for progress. Can I ask a few questions?
How much space will you need to build the boat?
It folds up to be trailered? I can't imagine it.
Won't the ballast be a problem for trailering? What form of ballast? Lead not
water?
How many crew to operate her?
Is the build concept instant boat style?
Mostly quarter inch plywood or something heavier?
Wait, the idea must be that you actually build three boats then put them
together, right?
The more questions I ask, the more this sounds like one should be built for
out here on Puget Sound!
Mike Masten
In a message dated 3/19/02 7:53:25 PM,david@...writes:
>FBBB --
>
>Some of you may have some idea what a powerful and positive effect
>boat building has had on me. No, it didn't save me from alcohol or
>suicide. It just makes me feel good! It feels good to make something
>with my hands, and it feels even better to enjoy the fruits of my
>labors on a warm Summer's day.
>
>This list has been a big part of my enjoyment. When not building or
>boating, I can think about building and boat, share ideas and stories
>and most of all, keep the fire stoked. It's all to easy to let the
>days go by and have nothing to show for it. This list keeps me fired
>up. Hearing Jeff's stories of gathering materials for his Wyo keeps
>me fired up. Seeing Bruce's pages of great big dream boat keeps me
>fired up. All of you, with your endless arguments about sloops vs.
>yawls, polyester vs. epoxy, keep me fired up!
>
>And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
>Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
>agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction on
>a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
>beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
>too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
>Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
>
>I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
>These can be seen at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
>
>YIBB,
>
>David
>
>
>C.E.P.
>415 W.46th Street
>New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>(212) 247-0296
I wonder if you could get a group together to split the cost of developing the Puffer 40 like
Macnaughton does in "idea boats" at macnaughtongroup.com? Clyde
porcupinefysh wrote:
Macnaughton does in "idea boats" at macnaughtongroup.com? Clyde
porcupinefysh wrote:
> Huzzah, Susan and David! I can already visualize the two big schooners[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Now, if someone just commissions the Puffer 40, I can brush up on my
> welding skills as well....
>
> porky
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > FBBB --
> >... so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
> > Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
> > agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction on
> > a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
> > beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
> > too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
> > Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
> >
> > I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
> > These can be seen at:
> >
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Huzzah, Susan and David! I can already visualize the two big schooners
together on a broad reach, skirts up and spray over their bows, racing
across the lake like scudding clouds. Insolence, indeed! I applaud
you! Let me know when I can drop by and smear some epoxy on a
hull--seriously. I would like to contribute something to this project.
Now, if someone just commissions the Puffer 40, I can brush up on my
welding skills as well....
porky
together on a broad reach, skirts up and spray over their bows, racing
across the lake like scudding clouds. Insolence, indeed! I applaud
you! Let me know when I can drop by and smear some epoxy on a
hull--seriously. I would like to contribute something to this project.
Now, if someone just commissions the Puffer 40, I can brush up on my
welding skills as well....
porky
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>... so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
> Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
> agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction on
> a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
> beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
> too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
> Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
>
> I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
> These can be seen at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
FBBB --
Some of you may have some idea what a powerful and positive effect
boat building has had on me. No, it didn't save me from alcohol or
suicide. It just makes me feel good! It feels good to make something
with my hands, and it feels even better to enjoy the fruits of my
labors on a warm Summer's day.
This list has been a big part of my enjoyment. When not building or
boating, I can think about building and boat, share ideas and stories
and most of all, keep the fire stoked. It's all to easy to let the
days go by and have nothing to show for it. This list keeps me fired
up. Hearing Jeff's stories of gathering materials for his Wyo keeps
me fired up. Seeing Bruce's pages of great big dream boat keeps me
fired up. All of you, with your endless arguments about sloops vs.
yawls, polyester vs. epoxy, keep me fired up!
And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction on
a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
These can be seen at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Some of you may have some idea what a powerful and positive effect
boat building has had on me. No, it didn't save me from alcohol or
suicide. It just makes me feel good! It feels good to make something
with my hands, and it feels even better to enjoy the fruits of my
labors on a warm Summer's day.
This list has been a big part of my enjoyment. When not building or
boating, I can think about building and boat, share ideas and stories
and most of all, keep the fire stoked. It's all to easy to let the
days go by and have nothing to show for it. This list keeps me fired
up. Hearing Jeff's stories of gathering materials for his Wyo keeps
me fired up. Seeing Bruce's pages of great big dream boat keeps me
fired up. All of you, with your endless arguments about sloops vs.
yawls, polyester vs. epoxy, keep me fired up!
And so it is with a debt of gratitude that I tell you that Susan
Davis and I have asked PCB to finish the Insolent 60 and he has
agreed! With any luck sometime this Fall we'll begin construction on
a matched pair of Insolent 60s. Our hope is to race these great
beasts on Lake Champlain in the late Summer of 2003. If 2003 proves
too ambitious, then plan on seeing us in a tacking dual in 2004!
Jeff, will your Wyoming serve as race committee boat for us?
I've started a small collection of Web pages outlining the project.
These can be seen at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296