Re: [bolger] Re: Suggest a Design
The steel workboat is in Ch. 55 of BWAOM. It is 15'11". Displacement is 5360
lb., so maybe it's not an ideal first project. Currach, des. no. 408, is a
24' steel open outboard boat featured in 30-Odd Boats.
Howard
In a message dated 24-03-02 10:34:15 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
pbs@...writes:
lb., so maybe it's not an ideal first project. Currach, des. no. 408, is a
24' steel open outboard boat featured in 30-Odd Boats.
Howard
In a message dated 24-03-02 10:34:15 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
pbs@...writes:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Bolger also designed a 15' 11" (unless it was 11' 11" instead) very
> heavily built work boat that was to be made of steel and powered by one of
> those Chinese diesels and transmissions you can find advertised in Boats
> and Harbors. It was that specific length because the powers that be in some
>
> state, Oregon maybe, had just decided that power boats an inch longer
> didn't need to be licensed. I think I read about this in MAIB or one of the
>
> books, possibly BWAOM.
>
>
> A fax to PB&F looking for steel boats that you could practice on before you
>
> build your big boat, Anti-Spray perhaps, should produce a fax back with at
> least the designs I've suggested and perhaps more.
>
Buehler's boats are great, handsome and capable. Unfortunately they all
draw to much water, usually six feet, IMOHO (In My Own Humble Opinion.) I
like the way they look, but unless you live in the Pacific Northwest where
almost all the anchorages are deep or covered in either timber or wheat you
are better off with a shallow Bolger design.
When I was thinking of cheap and fast ways to get living on the water I
thought that hammocks would be the way to go. Get a Yucatan matrimonial
(big enough for two close friends) hammock and swing it where you have
space while you finish off what's left to do. (The Yucatacaens sleep across
their hammocks, with the attachment points perpendicular from your spine,
not parallel as we Norte Nmericanos use hammocks for naps.) Sheets of
plywood can be the cabin sole while you are finishing everything up while
swinging on the hook. (Sounds good, doesn't it?)
Bolger has an aluminum launch that was built in reasonable numbers in New
Zealand for some yacht racing world trials. It is design number 457 and
doesn't have a name. It is a nice looking design, but it's in aluminum, so
we're talking TIG or MIG welding. The plans are probably reasonably priced
as the sheets are small and I think there are only two. (I think Bolger's
plan pricing calculus takes into account the number and size of pages.)
Bolger also designed a 15' 11" (unless it was 11' 11" instead) very
heavily built work boat that was to be made of steel and powered by one of
those Chinese diesels and transmissions you can find advertised in Boats
and Harbors. It was that specific length because the powers that be in some
state, Oregon maybe, had just decided that power boats an inch longer
didn't need to be licensed. I think I read about this in MAIB or one of the
books, possibly BWAOM.
Another design was "Abandonza" which may be misspelled. It was designed to
be a trailerable commercial fisherman for a father and son duo in Southern
California. I think it is in Boats From...
Most of Bolger's designs could be easily adapted (by someone who knows what
they are doing, like Phil Bolger) from plywood to steel. The problem is
convincing Phil that he ought to spend the time adapting a boat so you can
practice welding. He won't poo poo the idea that learning how to weld on a
small boat isn't a good idea, but he probably won't have much time available.
A fax to PB&F looking for steel boats that you could practice on before you
build your big boat, Anti-Spray perhaps, should produce a fax back with at
least the designs I've suggested and perhaps more.
There are worse things in life than receiving an interesting fax back from
PB&F recommending some designs.
Phil Smith
draw to much water, usually six feet, IMOHO (In My Own Humble Opinion.) I
like the way they look, but unless you live in the Pacific Northwest where
almost all the anchorages are deep or covered in either timber or wheat you
are better off with a shallow Bolger design.
When I was thinking of cheap and fast ways to get living on the water I
thought that hammocks would be the way to go. Get a Yucatan matrimonial
(big enough for two close friends) hammock and swing it where you have
space while you finish off what's left to do. (The Yucatacaens sleep across
their hammocks, with the attachment points perpendicular from your spine,
not parallel as we Norte Nmericanos use hammocks for naps.) Sheets of
plywood can be the cabin sole while you are finishing everything up while
swinging on the hook. (Sounds good, doesn't it?)
Bolger has an aluminum launch that was built in reasonable numbers in New
Zealand for some yacht racing world trials. It is design number 457 and
doesn't have a name. It is a nice looking design, but it's in aluminum, so
we're talking TIG or MIG welding. The plans are probably reasonably priced
as the sheets are small and I think there are only two. (I think Bolger's
plan pricing calculus takes into account the number and size of pages.)
Bolger also designed a 15' 11" (unless it was 11' 11" instead) very
heavily built work boat that was to be made of steel and powered by one of
those Chinese diesels and transmissions you can find advertised in Boats
and Harbors. It was that specific length because the powers that be in some
state, Oregon maybe, had just decided that power boats an inch longer
didn't need to be licensed. I think I read about this in MAIB or one of the
books, possibly BWAOM.
Another design was "Abandonza" which may be misspelled. It was designed to
be a trailerable commercial fisherman for a father and son duo in Southern
California. I think it is in Boats From...
Most of Bolger's designs could be easily adapted (by someone who knows what
they are doing, like Phil Bolger) from plywood to steel. The problem is
convincing Phil that he ought to spend the time adapting a boat so you can
practice welding. He won't poo poo the idea that learning how to weld on a
small boat isn't a good idea, but he probably won't have much time available.
A fax to PB&F looking for steel boats that you could practice on before you
build your big boat, Anti-Spray perhaps, should produce a fax back with at
least the designs I've suggested and perhaps more.
There are worse things in life than receiving an interesting fax back from
PB&F recommending some designs.
Phil Smith
> Float the hull, slapsailing
> (yeah, I know easier said than done) on the rigging, then go
> and finish the interior at my convenience. Another point towardsThe practicality of this may depend on where you do your boating. If
> steel as the material.
you live where the water is cold, you will probably have to insulate
the interior before you use the boat at all. Otherwise, the interior
will be wet all the time.
Peter
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
summer, before deciding for sure. I have had plywood/epoxy
experience, (Moondance from Thompsons Small Boats) but not metal
experience. I guess I could always put up with the glass work if I
had too, just to get the job done. It would be nice to try building
a small, simple, open boat in steel to get experience and practise,
like I did with plywood/epoxy, but I don't think there are any
designs for simple, practical, small boats in steel. (Are there?)
(yeah, I know easier said than done) on the rigging, then go sailing
and finish the interior at my convenience. Another point towards
steel as the material.
Backyard Building" (signed copy!) next to the bed as well. My main
concern with a Buehler boat is finding a good source of wood for his
boats, here in the D.C. area of the U.S. Metal seems much easier to
come by, then finding decent wood. However, from what I have read,
this type of wood construction appeals to me more than plywood/epoxy.
> I understand an enjoy working with woodThat's why I plan to wait until I see how the welding class goes this
> and epoxy; steel leaves me cold.
>
summer, before deciding for sure. I have had plywood/epoxy
experience, (Moondance from Thompsons Small Boats) but not metal
experience. I guess I could always put up with the glass work if I
had too, just to get the job done. It would be nice to try building
a small, simple, open boat in steel to get experience and practise,
like I did with plywood/epoxy, but I don't think there are any
designs for simple, practical, small boats in steel. (Are there?)
> You can take a sleeping bag and a couple of cushions and go sailingsteer
> NOW. Sleep on the cabin sole and perch on the offcenterboard to
> if you must. Besides, maybe your wife will change her mind. Thenyou
> can install a different interior. Steel boats don't require theextra
> strength afforded by cabinetry.Excellent point, I had not though of that. Float the hull, slap
(yeah, I know easier said than done) on the rigging, then go sailing
and finish the interior at my convenience. Another point towards
steel as the material.
>smaller
> I'm surprised that George Buehler's name hasn't come up on this
> thread. He designs rather traditional-looking, heavy-displacement
> chine boats that can be built in lumberyard wood (without glass and
> epoxy), or in steel. You might want to check out some of his
> designs,Ah yes, Boatbuilding the Buehler way! I have his book "Buehler's
Backyard Building" (signed copy!) next to the bed as well. My main
concern with a Buehler boat is finding a good source of wood for his
boats, here in the D.C. area of the U.S. Metal seems much easier to
come by, then finding decent wood. However, from what I have read,
this type of wood construction appeals to me more than plywood/epoxy.
In truth, I would be seriously considering the Col. Hasler for myself
if it were not a metal boat. I understand an enjoy working with wood
and epoxy; steel leaves me cold. I certainly understand the benefits
of the stuff. Maybe if someone else welded her up, I could get into
finishing a metal boat.
Interiors *are* deceptive. Even without all the cute gimbled
fixtures, finishing Col. Hasler would be something of a challange.
Still, accommodations are an easy place to fudge and take shortcuts.
After all, a gimbled pilot seat and bunk can be installed anytime.
You can take a sleeping bag and a couple of cushions and go sailing
NOW. Sleep on the cabin sole and perch on the offcenterboard to steer
if you must. Besides, maybe your wife will change her mind. Then you
can install a different interior. Steel boats don't require the extra
strength afforded by cabinetry. If you decide to get rid of her (the
boat, I mean), the empty interior may actually appeal to some buyers
(like me--hint hint) who would want to finish her to their own needs.
I have no idea what Col. Hasler would cost to build. Twenty grand
american, maybe? According to someone, she should come in at about
$12,000-13,000 US ($2.00/lb. US. According to Peter, $36,000 Canadian
($6.00/lb. Can.). If pressed, I would lean toward the lower figure.
The biggest boat I've built, a 22' Benfort design in plywood weighing
in at 4300 lbs., ran me about $10,000 ten years ago.
I'm surprised that George Buehler's name hasn't come up on this
thread. He designs rather traditional-looking, heavy-displacement
chine boats that can be built in lumberyard wood (without glass and
epoxy), or in steel. You might want to check out some of his smaller
designs, such as Grizzy Bear, Emily and Jack. These deep-draft,
narrow vessels would be cheap to assemble, especially if you follow
the designer's advice and stick to basics,
porky
if it were not a metal boat. I understand an enjoy working with wood
and epoxy; steel leaves me cold. I certainly understand the benefits
of the stuff. Maybe if someone else welded her up, I could get into
finishing a metal boat.
Interiors *are* deceptive. Even without all the cute gimbled
fixtures, finishing Col. Hasler would be something of a challange.
Still, accommodations are an easy place to fudge and take shortcuts.
After all, a gimbled pilot seat and bunk can be installed anytime.
You can take a sleeping bag and a couple of cushions and go sailing
NOW. Sleep on the cabin sole and perch on the offcenterboard to steer
if you must. Besides, maybe your wife will change her mind. Then you
can install a different interior. Steel boats don't require the extra
strength afforded by cabinetry. If you decide to get rid of her (the
boat, I mean), the empty interior may actually appeal to some buyers
(like me--hint hint) who would want to finish her to their own needs.
I have no idea what Col. Hasler would cost to build. Twenty grand
american, maybe? According to someone, she should come in at about
$12,000-13,000 US ($2.00/lb. US. According to Peter, $36,000 Canadian
($6.00/lb. Can.). If pressed, I would lean toward the lower figure.
The biggest boat I've built, a 22' Benfort design in plywood weighing
in at 4300 lbs., ran me about $10,000 ten years ago.
I'm surprised that George Buehler's name hasn't come up on this
thread. He designs rather traditional-looking, heavy-displacement
chine boats that can be built in lumberyard wood (without glass and
epoxy), or in steel. You might want to check out some of his smaller
designs, such as Grizzy Bear, Emily and Jack. These deep-draft,
narrow vessels would be cheap to assemble, especially if you follow
the designer's advice and stick to basics,
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "metalsailer" <casteven@e...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> > In spite of previous comments (including my own) I would like to
> say
> > that the Col. Hasler would be an excellent boat according to your
> > stated parameters.
>
> I thought so too. Seems like a KISS principle boat to me. As
> someone else has said, once the hull is built, it seems you hit a
> brick wall. It appears the boat is mostly built, but in truth,
your
> only 1/3 of the way done. I want something with a simple but
> functional interior to keep the building time down. The interior
of
> Col. Halser appears simple, but I wonder if that gimbaled chair and
> bunk is as simple has it appears on paper. Or the bicycle gear ...
> and that rigging ...
>
> > To use a politically incorrect quotation, "She
> > ain't pretty, but she sure is willin'". As for speed, the small
> sail
> > area could probably be profitably increased. Then the only
limiting
> > factor would be the waterline length, which isn't too bad.
> > Unfortunately, your $12K (US Dollars?) is insufficiant for
anything
> > but a minimal one-off.
>
> Yep USD.
>
> Anyone want to guess on how much it would cost? A little more? A
lot
> more? 2x, 3x, ?
>
> > You would probably be better off with an old
> > production boat, as others have indicated.
>
> Yeah, but ...
> (1) I'd probably have to mess around with more goop and glass.
> (2) After a few years of doing the fair weather, southern ocean
> thing, I'd probably want to do something a bit more adventurous. I
> would like a tank around me, when I screw up.
>
> > This would also ease the
> > inevitable trouble that comes when your wife tells you to get rid
> of
> > the boat. Old plastic boats in good condition actually sell.
>
> DOH! Just saw a 1973 Albin Vega for sale, here in Southern
Maryland,
> for USD$1500. I called the first day it was in the paper, but it
was
> sold, before the ink was dry. I've seen another for sale USD$3250,
> but I don't know ... Steel ... Plastic ... Steel ...
Plastic ...???
> Although the Vega is supposed to be seaworthy, she seems a little
> light to me. How much could she really take? But Vogel does rate
the
> Vega 6 out of 20.
>
> > A steel
> > home-built boat of unique design may have to be scuttled.
> >
>
> Or leave in will to some family member I don't like :)
>
> > Still, it would be nice to see Col. Hasler built.
>
> That's my biggest worry with this design, It ain't been done yet!
It
> would be nice to have some experience with her sailing
> charicteristics. Yeah (s)he's tough, but is (s)he stable and
> seakindly? The looks don't put me off. Probably won't have to
worry
> about it being stolen :)
>
> > If the wife says to
> > get rid of the boat, you can say, "yes, Dear" and sail it to the
> > Marquesas without her...
> >
>
> And have my retirement checks forwarded to her address, right?
I suggest reading "This Old Boat" by Don Casey. Your local library
should have it, or $20 on the used book market, $25 new from Amazon. It
will give you a clear idea of what is involved in effort and finances in
getting one of these older fiberglass boats back in to shape.
HJ
pvanderwaart wrote:
should have it, or $20 on the used book market, $25 new from Amazon. It
will give you a clear idea of what is involved in effort and finances in
getting one of these older fiberglass boats back in to shape.
HJ
pvanderwaart wrote:
>
> > Options Under Consideration: Old plastic boat (Albin Vega, Pearson
> > Triton, Alberg 30), or build my own.
>
> For economy, this is the way to go. I saw a Vega advertised recently
> for $4900. You couldn't buy the material for homebuild for that.
> Granted you would probably need $10K of upgrade. I might consider a
> Grampian 26 since an ob engine would be cheaper than an ib.
>
> F
> Looks interesting, and has all the right stuff..."Steel"..."Firstme.
> time Welder"..."Tabloid Offshore Cruiser" (what does he mean by
> tabloid?). However the word "Preliminary" on the drawings worry
I'm serious about e-mailing Tanton, or post the question on the
bulletin board on his site. He is quick and polite. He has designed
lots of metal boats, so I wouldn't be too concerned if you would be
building hull #1. You won't get step-by-step instructions, though. It
is true that some of the boats listed in the catalog are not complete
designs, so find out right away if it's a pipe dream.
"Tabloid", when used for boats, means "small." Just as a tabloid
paper has a smaller format than a regular newspaper. Nothing
scandalous or perjorative.
Have you checked out the Yahoo group "origamiboats?" The quick
building method may appeal to you.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/
Peter
>From the description, this sounds like an excellent choice. However,
> For an offshore homebuild, I would suggest the Serpentaire at
> www.bateau.com. It has a track record.
it is plywood/fiberglass. From the previous boat I built, I know how
easy this is for the amateur boat builder (like me). However, I
really hate working with fiberglass/epoxy.
>not
> You might look at the Spark (design #995) at www.tantonyachts.com.
> There is an image on page 11 of the drawings. E-mail Tanton and as
> (1) if it is truely a completed design and (2) if she has the
> ultimate stability for offshore use. Many small steel yachts are
> as stable as you might expect because of the heavy weight of theLooks interesting, and has all the right stuff..."Steel"..."First
> upper sides and deck. This is a nifty little boat however, and
> probably better all round choice than the Bolger boat.
>
time Welder"..."Tabloid Offshore Cruiser" (what does he mean by
tabloid?). However the word "Preliminary" on the drawings worry me.
Seems I would have the same problem as with the Bolger Design,
meaning, no previous building or sailing knowledge. However, it will
go on the list. Thanks.
> For a design in steel, I'd check out Bolger's "Anti-Spray." I don'tThanks, for the boat suggestion and the advice, I'll look into it.
>
>are
> Join the Metal Boat Society right now. They are all doing what you
> planning to do. You will learn a whole lot from their quarterlymagazine.
> You may find some good deals on metal boat building stuff in theirSounds like a good idea. I found a web page at
> classified ads. Things like hoists and clamps and even welders and
> blasters. They have a very worthwhile annual meeting in the pacific
> northwest, Portland this year.
>
> Metal Boat Society
> 634 Goodhew Road
> Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
> 360-856-5298 (days) - Office
> (360) 856-5298 - Home
>
www.metalboatsociety.com, but it appears that they have been hacked!
I'll look up membership info, when it's back online.
--- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
someone else has said, once the hull is built, it seems you hit a
brick wall. It appears the boat is mostly built, but in truth, your
only 1/3 of the way done. I want something with a simple but
functional interior to keep the building time down. The interior of
Col. Halser appears simple, but I wonder if that gimbaled chair and
bunk is as simple has it appears on paper. Or the bicycle gear ...
and that rigging ...
Anyone want to guess on how much it would cost? A little more? A lot
more? 2x, 3x, ?
(1) I'd probably have to mess around with more goop and glass.
(2) After a few years of doing the fair weather, southern ocean
thing, I'd probably want to do something a bit more adventurous. I
would like a tank around me, when I screw up.
for USD$1500. I called the first day it was in the paper, but it was
sold, before the ink was dry. I've seen another for sale USD$3250,
but I don't know ... Steel ... Plastic ... Steel ... Plastic ...???
Although the Vega is supposed to be seaworthy, she seems a little
light to me. How much could she really take? But Vogel does rate the
Vega 6 out of 20.
would be nice to have some experience with her sailing
charicteristics. Yeah (s)he's tough, but is (s)he stable and
seakindly? The looks don't put me off. Probably won't have to worry
about it being stolen :)
> In spite of previous comments (including my own) I would like tosay
> that the Col. Hasler would be an excellent boat according to yourI thought so too. Seems like a KISS principle boat to me. As
> stated parameters.
someone else has said, once the hull is built, it seems you hit a
brick wall. It appears the boat is mostly built, but in truth, your
only 1/3 of the way done. I want something with a simple but
functional interior to keep the building time down. The interior of
Col. Halser appears simple, but I wonder if that gimbaled chair and
bunk is as simple has it appears on paper. Or the bicycle gear ...
and that rigging ...
> To use a politically incorrect quotation, "Shesail
> ain't pretty, but she sure is willin'". As for speed, the small
> area could probably be profitably increased. Then the only limitingYep USD.
> factor would be the waterline length, which isn't too bad.
> Unfortunately, your $12K (US Dollars?) is insufficiant for anything
> but a minimal one-off.
Anyone want to guess on how much it would cost? A little more? A lot
more? 2x, 3x, ?
> You would probably be better off with an oldYeah, but ...
> production boat, as others have indicated.
(1) I'd probably have to mess around with more goop and glass.
(2) After a few years of doing the fair weather, southern ocean
thing, I'd probably want to do something a bit more adventurous. I
would like a tank around me, when I screw up.
> This would also ease theof
> inevitable trouble that comes when your wife tells you to get rid
> the boat. Old plastic boats in good condition actually sell.DOH! Just saw a 1973 Albin Vega for sale, here in Southern Maryland,
for USD$1500. I called the first day it was in the paper, but it was
sold, before the ink was dry. I've seen another for sale USD$3250,
but I don't know ... Steel ... Plastic ... Steel ... Plastic ...???
Although the Vega is supposed to be seaworthy, she seems a little
light to me. How much could she really take? But Vogel does rate the
Vega 6 out of 20.
> A steelOr leave in will to some family member I don't like :)
> home-built boat of unique design may have to be scuttled.
>
> Still, it would be nice to see Col. Hasler built.That's my biggest worry with this design, It ain't been done yet! It
would be nice to have some experience with her sailing
charicteristics. Yeah (s)he's tough, but is (s)he stable and
seakindly? The looks don't put me off. Probably won't have to worry
about it being stolen :)
> If the wife says toAnd have my retirement checks forwarded to her address, right?
> get rid of the boat, you can say, "yes, Dear" and sail it to the
> Marquesas without her...
>
In spite of previous comments (including my own) I would like to say
that the Col. Hasler would be an excellent boat according to your
stated parameters. To use a politically incorrect quotation, "She
ain't pretty, but she sure is willin'". As for speed, the small sail
area could probably be profitably increased. Then the only limiting
factor would be the waterline length, which isn't too bad.
Unfortunately, your $12K (US Dollars?) is insufficiant for anything
but a minimal one-off. You would probably be better off with an old
production boat, as others have indicated. This would also ease the
inevitable trouble that comes when your wife tells you to get rid of
the boat. Old plastic boats in good condition actually sell. A steel
home-built boat of unique design may have to be scuttled.
Still, it would be nice to see Col. Hasler built. If the wife says to
get rid of the boat, you can say, "yes, Dear" and sail it to the
Marquesas without her...
(just kidding!)
porky
that the Col. Hasler would be an excellent boat according to your
stated parameters. To use a politically incorrect quotation, "She
ain't pretty, but she sure is willin'". As for speed, the small sail
area could probably be profitably increased. Then the only limiting
factor would be the waterline length, which isn't too bad.
Unfortunately, your $12K (US Dollars?) is insufficiant for anything
but a minimal one-off. You would probably be better off with an old
production boat, as others have indicated. This would also ease the
inevitable trouble that comes when your wife tells you to get rid of
the boat. Old plastic boats in good condition actually sell. A steel
home-built boat of unique design may have to be scuttled.
Still, it would be nice to see Col. Hasler built. If the wife says to
get rid of the boat, you can say, "yes, Dear" and sail it to the
Marquesas without her...
(just kidding!)
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "metalsailer" <casteven@e...> wrote:
> Purpose: Go anywhere, offshore, sailboat for one. My significant
> other adamantly refuses to leave sight of land. No racing, or
record
> breaking needed. (I have a ComPac 19 that I sail around the
> Chesapeake for everyday sailing)
>
> Price: Chea .. er .. um .. Inexpensive. Can be built for $12K'ish
or
> less.
>
> Options Under Consideration: Old plastic boat (Albin Vega, Pearson
> Triton, Alberg 30), or build my own.
>
> Materials: Steel. I have built a stitch and glue plywood sailboat,
> and although I enjoyed the woodworking part, I really hated working
> with the goop and glass.
>
> Skill Level: Beginner. I will be taking my first welding course
this
> summer.
>
> Timeline: Can be built in 2-3 years of weekends.
>
> I was looking at Design 635 as a possibility, but I have no idea
how
> much it would cost, or how long it would take, and one comment was
> made about it being "a modest performer". Is this a nice way of
> saying snail? Although, speed is not high on the priorities list,
> I'd like to be able to actually sail someplace. What do you think,
> does 635 fit the bill, or would you suggest an alternative?
At 04:37 AM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
what the design number is, some one here will know. Anti-Spray was designed
from the get go in steel and to be efficient and easy to build. If it was
me building the design, I'd ask PB&F about getting CAD files for the steel
plates. If they don't already have them, ask them how much it would cost
for Susanne to develop them. This is supposed to save you, the builder,
between 30% and 50% of the time to build. In addition to having the plates
cut precisely how they are supposed to be, they can be marked so that when
an arrow on this plate =====> meets up with an arrow on that plate <=====,
like this =====><=====, you will know that you've got things straight and
you can tack the plates together.
Even though our time is "free" our patience is not unlimited. Getting the
hull finished rapidly will make you think that you are almost done when you
really are only about 1/3 of the way to done. I'd try like hell to get a
CAD cut boat even if I couldn't "afford" it. I think having a pile of cut
plate would make it at least 50% more likely that the boat would get built
and I'd be going sailing. Better to work another few months before welding
the boat. You could probably get a part time job welding on the weekends to
improve your technique.
Here are a few suggestions: 1) Learn how to weld with MIG equipment. 2) Buy
a "suitcase" MIG welder and a good welding torch. You want to use MIG
because it is a whole lot faster and there is a whole lot less clean up. 3)
Use Corten(tm) or similar self-healing steel. Corten costs a little more,
but not much when you compare it to the whole boat. It has different
strength characteristics than mild steel but both are plenty strong.
To figure out what is a "good" welder and torch ask your instructor and
check out a couple of alternatives at a couple of local welding supply
houses. Most brands are OK but you want one for which YOU will receive
support from local people. Try welding with all of them. Ask the sales
people to help you get used to the equipment.
Don't worry about paying "too much" for your welding outfit. You should be
able to sell it for a significant portion of what you paid for it when you
are done. Don't forget to ask about specials or deals or upcoming sales or
demo or returned units. Once you find the unit that is "good" for you, call
around for deals.
If you don't sell it, take it with you on your 'round the world cruise.
Never can tell when you might need to fix your boat or get a job. (Your
boat will be your resume.)
For what it is worth, my smartest friend, who works for the World Bank to
evaluate economic development projects in Micronesia (he gets paid to go to
the South Pacific for months at a time, I told you he was smart) says that
the most welcome skill set that anyone of us is likely to gain is outboard
motor repair. Bring some parts, manuals, timing light, dwell meter and
tools and you will be welcomed like family. Next up in desirability is
being a veterinarian who specializes in hogs. Outboard motors are easier to
become expert in than veterinary medicine and we'll probably all have an
outboard on board anyway. I'm not planning to carry a pig.
Join the Metal Boat Society right now. They are all doing what you are
planning to do. You will learn a whole lot from their quarterly magazine.
You may find some good deals on metal boat building stuff in their
classified ads. Things like hoists and clamps and even welders and
blasters. They have a very worthwhile annual meeting in the pacific
northwest, Portland this year.
Metal Boat Society
634 Goodhew Road
Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
360-856-5298 (days) - Office
(360) 856-5298 - Home
Good luck, have fun, take your time, think things out, start as soon.
Phil Smith
>Materials: Steel. I have built a stitch and glue plywood sailboat,For a design in steel, I'd check out Bolger's "Anti-Spray." I don't know
>and although I enjoyed the woodworking part, I really hated working
>with the goop and glass.
>
>Skill Level: Beginner. I will be taking my first welding course this
>summer.
what the design number is, some one here will know. Anti-Spray was designed
from the get go in steel and to be efficient and easy to build. If it was
me building the design, I'd ask PB&F about getting CAD files for the steel
plates. If they don't already have them, ask them how much it would cost
for Susanne to develop them. This is supposed to save you, the builder,
between 30% and 50% of the time to build. In addition to having the plates
cut precisely how they are supposed to be, they can be marked so that when
an arrow on this plate =====> meets up with an arrow on that plate <=====,
like this =====><=====, you will know that you've got things straight and
you can tack the plates together.
Even though our time is "free" our patience is not unlimited. Getting the
hull finished rapidly will make you think that you are almost done when you
really are only about 1/3 of the way to done. I'd try like hell to get a
CAD cut boat even if I couldn't "afford" it. I think having a pile of cut
plate would make it at least 50% more likely that the boat would get built
and I'd be going sailing. Better to work another few months before welding
the boat. You could probably get a part time job welding on the weekends to
improve your technique.
Here are a few suggestions: 1) Learn how to weld with MIG equipment. 2) Buy
a "suitcase" MIG welder and a good welding torch. You want to use MIG
because it is a whole lot faster and there is a whole lot less clean up. 3)
Use Corten(tm) or similar self-healing steel. Corten costs a little more,
but not much when you compare it to the whole boat. It has different
strength characteristics than mild steel but both are plenty strong.
To figure out what is a "good" welder and torch ask your instructor and
check out a couple of alternatives at a couple of local welding supply
houses. Most brands are OK but you want one for which YOU will receive
support from local people. Try welding with all of them. Ask the sales
people to help you get used to the equipment.
Don't worry about paying "too much" for your welding outfit. You should be
able to sell it for a significant portion of what you paid for it when you
are done. Don't forget to ask about specials or deals or upcoming sales or
demo or returned units. Once you find the unit that is "good" for you, call
around for deals.
If you don't sell it, take it with you on your 'round the world cruise.
Never can tell when you might need to fix your boat or get a job. (Your
boat will be your resume.)
For what it is worth, my smartest friend, who works for the World Bank to
evaluate economic development projects in Micronesia (he gets paid to go to
the South Pacific for months at a time, I told you he was smart) says that
the most welcome skill set that anyone of us is likely to gain is outboard
motor repair. Bring some parts, manuals, timing light, dwell meter and
tools and you will be welcomed like family. Next up in desirability is
being a veterinarian who specializes in hogs. Outboard motors are easier to
become expert in than veterinary medicine and we'll probably all have an
outboard on board anyway. I'm not planning to carry a pig.
Join the Metal Boat Society right now. They are all doing what you are
planning to do. You will learn a whole lot from their quarterly magazine.
You may find some good deals on metal boat building stuff in their
classified ads. Things like hoists and clamps and even welders and
blasters. They have a very worthwhile annual meeting in the pacific
northwest, Portland this year.
Metal Boat Society
634 Goodhew Road
Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
360-856-5298 (days) - Office
(360) 856-5298 - Home
Good luck, have fun, take your time, think things out, start as soon.
Phil Smith
> Options Under Consideration: Old plastic boat (Albin Vega, PearsonFor economy, this is the way to go. I saw a Vega advertised recently
> Triton, Alberg 30), or build my own.
for $4900. You couldn't buy the material for homebuild for that.
Granted you would probably need $10K of upgrade. I might consider a
Grampian 26 since an ob engine would be cheaper than an ib.
For an offshore homebuild, I would suggest the Serpentaire at
www.bateau.com. It has a track record.
> Materials: Steel. I have built a stitch and glue plywood sailboat,You might look at the Spark (design #995) at www.tantonyachts.com.
> and although I enjoyed the woodworking part, I really hated working
> with the goop and glass.
There is an image on page 11 of the drawings. E-mail Tanton and as
(1) if it is truely a completed design and (2) if she has the
ultimate stability for offshore use. Many small steel yachts are not
as stable as you might expect because of the heavy weight of the
upper sides and deck. This is a nifty little boat however, and
probably better all round choice than the Bolger boat.
Peter
Purpose: Go anywhere, offshore, sailboat for one. My significant
other adamantly refuses to leave sight of land. No racing, or record
breaking needed. (I have a ComPac 19 that I sail around the
Chesapeake for everyday sailing)
Price: Chea .. er .. um .. Inexpensive. Can be built for $12K'ish or
less.
Options Under Consideration: Old plastic boat (Albin Vega, Pearson
Triton, Alberg 30), or build my own.
Materials: Steel. I have built a stitch and glue plywood sailboat,
and although I enjoyed the woodworking part, I really hated working
with the goop and glass.
Skill Level: Beginner. I will be taking my first welding course this
summer.
Timeline: Can be built in 2-3 years of weekends.
I was looking at Design 635 as a possibility, but I have no idea how
much it would cost, or how long it would take, and one comment was
made about it being "a modest performer". Is this a nice way of
saying snail? Although, speed is not high on the priorities list,
I'd like to be able to actually sail someplace. What do you think,
does 635 fit the bill, or would you suggest an alternative?
other adamantly refuses to leave sight of land. No racing, or record
breaking needed. (I have a ComPac 19 that I sail around the
Chesapeake for everyday sailing)
Price: Chea .. er .. um .. Inexpensive. Can be built for $12K'ish or
less.
Options Under Consideration: Old plastic boat (Albin Vega, Pearson
Triton, Alberg 30), or build my own.
Materials: Steel. I have built a stitch and glue plywood sailboat,
and although I enjoyed the woodworking part, I really hated working
with the goop and glass.
Skill Level: Beginner. I will be taking my first welding course this
summer.
Timeline: Can be built in 2-3 years of weekends.
I was looking at Design 635 as a possibility, but I have no idea how
much it would cost, or how long it would take, and one comment was
made about it being "a modest performer". Is this a nice way of
saying snail? Although, speed is not high on the priorities list,
I'd like to be able to actually sail someplace. What do you think,
does 635 fit the bill, or would you suggest an alternative?