Re: Estimating Budgets/Building Dreams
Whether a man believes "If something is worth doing right - or
poorly" He will undoubtably be correct.
By the way has anyone factored in the 29% countervailing duty the
U.S. has imposed on softwood from Canada? Just imposed yesterday I
believe, and is forecast to raise the price of softwood building
materials substancially. (Probably by about 30% since our "cheap"
lumber was keeping the prices down to something approaching
reasonable.)
Nels (Feeling philosophical since it's still -20;-))
poorly" He will undoubtably be correct.
By the way has anyone factored in the 29% countervailing duty the
U.S. has imposed on softwood from Canada? Just imposed yesterday I
believe, and is forecast to raise the price of softwood building
materials substancially. (Probably by about 30% since our "cheap"
lumber was keeping the prices down to something approaching
reasonable.)
Nels (Feeling philosophical since it's still -20;-))
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > FBBB --
> >
> > I'm sure that all of us have had that moment when we reached for
> the
> > interlux paint for our Brick, or kelvar line for our Windsprint,
> > excusing the excess with the phrase "If something's with doing,
> it's
> > worth doing right!" or my favorite "You've got to put a value on
> your
> > time."
> >
> > Well I'm here to call "Bullshit" on that. One of the best bits of
> > advice I ever got was "If something's worth doing, it's worth
> doing
> > poorly." Now I know this is going to raise the hackles on some of
> you
>
> <snip>
>
>
> > C.E.P.
> > 415 W.46th Street
> > New York, New York 10036
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > (212) 247-0296
I started on David Carnell's $200 sailboat yesterday. I'll be using
construction grade spruce, Home Depot quality plywood, and what I
can use of 2 partial sheets of ply that were left in my yard by the
previous owner. They have been outside those two years so I think
they pass the delamination test. I have a little bit of epoxy and
glass tape left over from the last project to do the butt joints,
but no more. I'll use PL Premium instead. $20 worth of porch paint
and used Ebay sails will round out the list. It should come out to
about $250 dollars.
I maintain a computer network with over 600 connected devices
and everyday I am confronted with decisions over what I would like
for my users to have available and what I can make work. Six year
old computers still have their uses. I have become the "Master
Computer Recycler". I refer to it as Appropriate Technology.
God I miss Harry Harryhausen.
Roger S
construction grade spruce, Home Depot quality plywood, and what I
can use of 2 partial sheets of ply that were left in my yard by the
previous owner. They have been outside those two years so I think
they pass the delamination test. I have a little bit of epoxy and
glass tape left over from the last project to do the butt joints,
but no more. I'll use PL Premium instead. $20 worth of porch paint
and used Ebay sails will round out the list. It should come out to
about $250 dollars.
I maintain a computer network with over 600 connected devices
and everyday I am confronted with decisions over what I would like
for my users to have available and what I can make work. Six year
old computers still have their uses. I have become the "Master
Computer Recycler". I refer to it as Appropriate Technology.
God I miss Harry Harryhausen.
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I'm sure that all of us have had that moment when we reached for
the
> interlux paint for our Brick, or kelvar line for our Windsprint,
> excusing the excess with the phrase "If something's with doing,
it's
> worth doing right!" or my favorite "You've got to put a value on
your
> time."
>
> Well I'm here to call "Bullshit" on that. One of the best bits of
> advice I ever got was "If something's worth doing, it's worth
doing
> poorly." Now I know this is going to raise the hackles on some of
you
<snip>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
David,
When it comes to building a boat, we all might ask ourselves
whether we want to create an object of affection or a vehicle in
which to take a voyage.
If an object, then the more time and materials, fittings and
expensive finishes we apply the better, because those things are
the measure of our devotion to the boat.
If a vehicle, then the more cargo carried, fish caught, or places
visited the better, because these things are the measure of the
voyage, and any extra time and materials spent on the boat are
wasted.
Phil Bolger's designs balance these two purposes. They are
functional, economical, practical, elegant, and sometimes even
beautiful objects, yet they will carry you where you want to go and
do what you want to do within the limits of each design
parameter.
Indeed, Phil Bolger's designs are so varied, imaginative and
economical that anything seems possible. This is very
dangerous to the professional dreamers among us. You could
end up spending an entire lifetime browsing and modelling and
planning to build one or more of Phil's boats, because just as
soon as you're settled on one design, a more interesting or
ingenious plan comes along to infatuate you all over again.
This is fine if all you want to do is dream about boatbuilding or
just sit back and admire the designs. As long as Mr. Bolger is
around, there will be always be another one on the drawing
board.
However, if you want to build a boat and then go somewhere and
do something in it, at some point you have to put down the book,
turn off the computer, forget about the ultimate Bolger boat and
put together the one you've already got the plans for.
Each one of Bolgers' designs is a challenge for us to get out of
our heads and onto the water. That's what it's all about,
because none of us has all the time in the world.
When it comes to building a boat, we all might ask ourselves
whether we want to create an object of affection or a vehicle in
which to take a voyage.
If an object, then the more time and materials, fittings and
expensive finishes we apply the better, because those things are
the measure of our devotion to the boat.
If a vehicle, then the more cargo carried, fish caught, or places
visited the better, because these things are the measure of the
voyage, and any extra time and materials spent on the boat are
wasted.
Phil Bolger's designs balance these two purposes. They are
functional, economical, practical, elegant, and sometimes even
beautiful objects, yet they will carry you where you want to go and
do what you want to do within the limits of each design
parameter.
Indeed, Phil Bolger's designs are so varied, imaginative and
economical that anything seems possible. This is very
dangerous to the professional dreamers among us. You could
end up spending an entire lifetime browsing and modelling and
planning to build one or more of Phil's boats, because just as
soon as you're settled on one design, a more interesting or
ingenious plan comes along to infatuate you all over again.
This is fine if all you want to do is dream about boatbuilding or
just sit back and admire the designs. As long as Mr. Bolger is
around, there will be always be another one on the drawing
board.
However, if you want to build a boat and then go somewhere and
do something in it, at some point you have to put down the book,
turn off the computer, forget about the ultimate Bolger boat and
put together the one you've already got the plans for.
Each one of Bolgers' designs is a challenge for us to get out of
our heads and onto the water. That's what it's all about,
because none of us has all the time in the world.
Nice post, it got moved into my keeper file (your second one in that
file by the way). This list has many very positive things going for it
and the quality of the writing is one of them. The bursts of erudition
and humor often leave me envious as I am one of those individuals who
struggles with every verb and adjective to not quite say what I really
mean.
HJ
David Ryan wrote:
file by the way). This list has many very positive things going for it
and the quality of the writing is one of them. The bursts of erudition
and humor often leave me envious as I am one of those individuals who
struggles with every verb and adjective to not quite say what I really
mean.
HJ
David Ryan wrote:
>
> FBBB --
>
> I'm sure that all of us have had that moment when we reached for the
> interlux paint for our Brick, or kelvar line for our Windsprint,
> excusing the excess with the phrase "If something's with doing, it's
> worth doing right!" or my favorite "You've got to put a value on your
> time."
>
> Well I'm here to call "Bullshit" on that. One of the best bits of
> advice I ever got was "If something's worth doing, it's worth doing
> poorly." Now I know this is going to raise the hackles on some of you
> craftsmen out there. But relax, pour yourself a scotch (like I did
> after reading that the I60 was going to cost me $60K,) and read on.
>
> As some of you may already know, I'm a producer, sort of like a
> architect/general contractor for film and video. The number one
> reason that projects go over budget is that THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE
> BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. They were losers from word one; weak
> concepts being employed to achieve questionable objectives. Destined
> to be utterly unwatchable we start piling on the frills: We'll shoot
> it on 16mm, no 35mm film, we'll get Dustin Hoffman to do the V.O.,
> and so on. No matter how much money you spend it's still a dog, only
> now it's a very expensive dog.
>
> And now that it's an expensive dog no one will dare say it's a dog.
> Panic sets in and it only becomes easier to throw more money at this
> lumbering, drooling beast in the hope that something will help. New
> music and re-write the VO and while we're at it, Dustin "phoned it
> in", let's get Susan Sarandon! Of course this is all being done last
> minute, thoughtlessly and at time and a half. The premiere date
> approaches and the film is more unwatchable and more expensive than
> ever! If it had gone off at the original budget it might have been
> excusable, but now someone's head is going to roll. Everybody start
> running for cover, e-mail flies back and forth, and I start checking
> in the mirror to see if a bull's eye hasn't suddenly appeared on my
> forehead.
>
> It comes down to three things: bad ideas, dishonesty, and fear.
>
> Fortunately as Bolger boat builders we usually only get into the
> realm of bad ideas when we start proposing our own hair-brained
> modifications. Has PCB designed some losers? Sure. But he's also got
> a tremendous track record of matching concept, objective and
> resources. Susan and I are hoping we're getting a Martha Jane, and
> not a Canard.
>
> Dishonesty? Well that's between ourselves and our gods (or wife). Bob
> Wise told me of a LMII was built with gilding and modifications that
> pushed the budget over $100K (after all, if something's worth doing,
> it's worth doing right!) and the finished boat unsuitable for going
> to sea. Did this poor fellow really want a "cheap looking" Bolger
> box? Or was he trying to to turn the LMII into the $250K boat he
> couldn't afford? Did he ever even want to go to sea? I don't know the
> answer, and I don't expect the fellow's a member of this list.
>
> As to fear, well fear I know all too well. I very nearly sent away
> for suit of sails for the LSME fearing that all my "hard work" and
> "craftsmanship" would be spoiled. I very nearly bought cleats rather
> than making my own not wanting to be penny wise and pound foolish. In
> both cases this list and my own pecuniary ways helped me stay the
> course, much to my satisfaction and financial benefit.
>
> There's nothing so awful as the moment you realize your dreams are
> within reach. I have literally been reduced to tears by the sudden
> epiphany that the only thing standing between me and living the life
> I want is the doing. When I look at the plans for the the LMII, or
> Illinois, or Wyoming, or BDS, and yes, the I60, I am faced with the
> terrible knowledge that they are all within reach; that if that's
> what I really want, it's something I can do; that my day of reckoning
> has arrived.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
I think an implication of this is that you should hire good writers
and not hack up their work too much, but there must be a law against
it as even the biggest studios don't seem to be able to do this, even
though writers in general don't seem to be loaded with dough. $1M for
special effects and $1k (judging by quality) for the script.
Fortunately, it seems that Bolger hasn't been banned yet, so you don't
have the equivalent situation with boats yet (tho it seems SNAME may
be working on it, or has that failed?).
I think there's a balance on appropriate materials, and I think if I
had built a boat with the same plywood I tried for the Brick's
replacement daggerboard, I'd be very disappointed (heavy, but dampness
makes it do really strange things). For a Brick daggerboard, it's ok.
I think in general it might be better to simplify or postpone parts of
a project, or to save money only where you can replace things easily,
rather than to go too cheezy. Of course there's no need to use ocume
on a trailer boat either. Having used a Tyvek sail, I think I'd rather
have a conventional one, tho I suppose if you made several Tyvek sails
and used them for a while you could get good at it. And I suppose
Sailrite would be worth it too, in some cases. My rowing boats have
zinc oarlocks for now.
But I don't have nearly as much experience, of course.
and not hack up their work too much, but there must be a law against
it as even the biggest studios don't seem to be able to do this, even
though writers in general don't seem to be loaded with dough. $1M for
special effects and $1k (judging by quality) for the script.
Fortunately, it seems that Bolger hasn't been banned yet, so you don't
have the equivalent situation with boats yet (tho it seems SNAME may
be working on it, or has that failed?).
I think there's a balance on appropriate materials, and I think if I
had built a boat with the same plywood I tried for the Brick's
replacement daggerboard, I'd be very disappointed (heavy, but dampness
makes it do really strange things). For a Brick daggerboard, it's ok.
I think in general it might be better to simplify or postpone parts of
a project, or to save money only where you can replace things easily,
rather than to go too cheezy. Of course there's no need to use ocume
on a trailer boat either. Having used a Tyvek sail, I think I'd rather
have a conventional one, tho I suppose if you made several Tyvek sails
and used them for a while you could get good at it. And I suppose
Sailrite would be worth it too, in some cases. My rowing boats have
zinc oarlocks for now.
But I don't have nearly as much experience, of course.
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
snipThe number one
> reason that projects go over budget is that THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE
> BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. They were losers from word one; weak
> concepts being employed to achieve questionable objectives. Destined
> to be utterly unwatchable we start piling on the frills: We'll shoot
> it on 16mm, no 35mm film, we'll get Dustin Hoffman to do the V.O.,
> and so on. No matter how much money you spend it's still a dog, only
> now it's a very expensive dog.
>
snip
FBBB --
I'm sure that all of us have had that moment when we reached for the
interlux paint for our Brick, or kelvar line for our Windsprint,
excusing the excess with the phrase "If something's with doing, it's
worth doing right!" or my favorite "You've got to put a value on your
time."
Well I'm here to call "Bullshit" on that. One of the best bits of
advice I ever got was "If something's worth doing, it's worth doing
poorly." Now I know this is going to raise the hackles on some of you
craftsmen out there. But relax, pour yourself a scotch (like I did
after reading that the I60 was going to cost me $60K,) and read on.
As some of you may already know, I'm a producer, sort of like a
architect/general contractor for film and video. The number one
reason that projects go over budget is that THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE
BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. They were losers from word one; weak
concepts being employed to achieve questionable objectives. Destined
to be utterly unwatchable we start piling on the frills: We'll shoot
it on 16mm, no 35mm film, we'll get Dustin Hoffman to do the V.O.,
and so on. No matter how much money you spend it's still a dog, only
now it's a very expensive dog.
And now that it's an expensive dog no one will dare say it's a dog.
Panic sets in and it only becomes easier to throw more money at this
lumbering, drooling beast in the hope that something will help. New
music and re-write the VO and while we're at it, Dustin "phoned it
in", let's get Susan Sarandon! Of course this is all being done last
minute, thoughtlessly and at time and a half. The premiere date
approaches and the film is more unwatchable and more expensive than
ever! If it had gone off at the original budget it might have been
excusable, but now someone's head is going to roll. Everybody start
running for cover, e-mail flies back and forth, and I start checking
in the mirror to see if a bull's eye hasn't suddenly appeared on my
forehead.
It comes down to three things: bad ideas, dishonesty, and fear.
Fortunately as Bolger boat builders we usually only get into the
realm of bad ideas when we start proposing our own hair-brained
modifications. Has PCB designed some losers? Sure. But he's also got
a tremendous track record of matching concept, objective and
resources. Susan and I are hoping we're getting a Martha Jane, and
not a Canard.
Dishonesty? Well that's between ourselves and our gods (or wife). Bob
Wise told me of a LMII was built with gilding and modifications that
pushed the budget over $100K (after all, if something's worth doing,
it's worth doing right!) and the finished boat unsuitable for going
to sea. Did this poor fellow really want a "cheap looking" Bolger
box? Or was he trying to to turn the LMII into the $250K boat he
couldn't afford? Did he ever even want to go to sea? I don't know the
answer, and I don't expect the fellow's a member of this list.
As to fear, well fear I know all too well. I very nearly sent away
for suit of sails for the LSME fearing that all my "hard work" and
"craftsmanship" would be spoiled. I very nearly bought cleats rather
than making my own not wanting to be penny wise and pound foolish. In
both cases this list and my own pecuniary ways helped me stay the
course, much to my satisfaction and financial benefit.
There's nothing so awful as the moment you realize your dreams are
within reach. I have literally been reduced to tears by the sudden
epiphany that the only thing standing between me and living the life
I want is the doing. When I look at the plans for the the LMII, or
Illinois, or Wyoming, or BDS, and yes, the I60, I am faced with the
terrible knowledge that they are all within reach; that if that's
what I really want, it's something I can do; that my day of reckoning
has arrived.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I'm sure that all of us have had that moment when we reached for the
interlux paint for our Brick, or kelvar line for our Windsprint,
excusing the excess with the phrase "If something's with doing, it's
worth doing right!" or my favorite "You've got to put a value on your
time."
Well I'm here to call "Bullshit" on that. One of the best bits of
advice I ever got was "If something's worth doing, it's worth doing
poorly." Now I know this is going to raise the hackles on some of you
craftsmen out there. But relax, pour yourself a scotch (like I did
after reading that the I60 was going to cost me $60K,) and read on.
As some of you may already know, I'm a producer, sort of like a
architect/general contractor for film and video. The number one
reason that projects go over budget is that THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE
BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. They were losers from word one; weak
concepts being employed to achieve questionable objectives. Destined
to be utterly unwatchable we start piling on the frills: We'll shoot
it on 16mm, no 35mm film, we'll get Dustin Hoffman to do the V.O.,
and so on. No matter how much money you spend it's still a dog, only
now it's a very expensive dog.
And now that it's an expensive dog no one will dare say it's a dog.
Panic sets in and it only becomes easier to throw more money at this
lumbering, drooling beast in the hope that something will help. New
music and re-write the VO and while we're at it, Dustin "phoned it
in", let's get Susan Sarandon! Of course this is all being done last
minute, thoughtlessly and at time and a half. The premiere date
approaches and the film is more unwatchable and more expensive than
ever! If it had gone off at the original budget it might have been
excusable, but now someone's head is going to roll. Everybody start
running for cover, e-mail flies back and forth, and I start checking
in the mirror to see if a bull's eye hasn't suddenly appeared on my
forehead.
It comes down to three things: bad ideas, dishonesty, and fear.
Fortunately as Bolger boat builders we usually only get into the
realm of bad ideas when we start proposing our own hair-brained
modifications. Has PCB designed some losers? Sure. But he's also got
a tremendous track record of matching concept, objective and
resources. Susan and I are hoping we're getting a Martha Jane, and
not a Canard.
Dishonesty? Well that's between ourselves and our gods (or wife). Bob
Wise told me of a LMII was built with gilding and modifications that
pushed the budget over $100K (after all, if something's worth doing,
it's worth doing right!) and the finished boat unsuitable for going
to sea. Did this poor fellow really want a "cheap looking" Bolger
box? Or was he trying to to turn the LMII into the $250K boat he
couldn't afford? Did he ever even want to go to sea? I don't know the
answer, and I don't expect the fellow's a member of this list.
As to fear, well fear I know all too well. I very nearly sent away
for suit of sails for the LSME fearing that all my "hard work" and
"craftsmanship" would be spoiled. I very nearly bought cleats rather
than making my own not wanting to be penny wise and pound foolish. In
both cases this list and my own pecuniary ways helped me stay the
course, much to my satisfaction and financial benefit.
There's nothing so awful as the moment you realize your dreams are
within reach. I have literally been reduced to tears by the sudden
epiphany that the only thing standing between me and living the life
I want is the doing. When I look at the plans for the the LMII, or
Illinois, or Wyoming, or BDS, and yes, the I60, I am faced with the
terrible knowledge that they are all within reach; that if that's
what I really want, it's something I can do; that my day of reckoning
has arrived.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296