Re: Making Big Masts/Spars

I would try making a Birdsmouth mast, Tapered or Not. It would provide
weight savings over a Solid mast, Should be stronger due to it's laminated
construction. And you could Scarf the long timbers out of less expensive
short timbers.

Good article in WB about Birdsmouth construction (Don't remember issuue)
or look here :http://users2.ev1.net/~fshagan/bm.htm

> The other issue is
> most multis have much wider staying base than 7',
> which means that mast is under a lot lower load.

This is a complicated issue. If you compare the mast of a multi to
the mast of a monohull of the same weight, you will find the multi's
mast is much more robust. One reason is that the sail area is
probably a lot more, but I believe that a major reason is the
extremely high initial stability of the multi. When hit by a gust,
the mono heel and spills the force. The multi stands tall and (it is
to be hoped) translates the gust into a burst of forward speed.

Someplace in the Bolger canon, he refers to a mast being sized for
initial stabliliy plus intertia, which gets back to the comments
about the I60 rig a couple of days ago.

Peter

Glass on outside of wood intended to be woven bidirectional to keep
from splitting.

Uniglass to be used on glass and epoxy mast with no wood or minimal
wood.

Guess I could have been clearer.

I have heard that some kinds of carbon will flex just as much as wood
before failing. Of course they'll be at much higher stress, but
they'll allow the wood to take a load. With glass, the wood might fail
first as it's floppy yet strong stuff.

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> Sure you could glass the outside of a mast, the
> question wasn't whether there was some other way than
> plywood, but whether plywood was viable given the loss
> of vertical fiber. The are lots of ply spars, so it
> is doable.
>
> >>I should think glassing the outside of a mast would
> take care of most 
> of this. Of course that means you can't see the wood
> anymore. 
> 
>
> I am not sure that you can use the uni glass in the
> same way. You can add carbon to the inside of a wood
> spar, confident that if it is done properly, the wood
> will load up, and then gradualy be backed up by the
> carbon fibre. If you put the carbon, or glass one the
> outside, it loads up first, and tends not to share the
> load with the wood. That's fine, but you have to use
> enough fiber to bear all the load, and you are stuck
> with the weight and cost of wood that is mostly just a
> permanet mold. If you put the glass on the inside, it
> tends to be too low modulus to pick up the load from
> the wood before it ruptures. This is all just
> spitballing, there may be some combo of wood and glass
> modulus that works as well as carbon, though I don't
> know it.
>
> >>> If the criterion is strength instead of stiffness,
> you can probably 
> use unidirectional glass instead of carbon. Very
> strong, just not very 
> stiff. Should be a lot cheaper. 
mucho html or other garbage snipped.

It is a stayed compresion rig right? Not a big
cantilever. Which is the 160?. The other issue is
most multis have much wider staying base than 7',
which means that mast is under a lot lower load.
Obviously a nice case could be made for just
reconfiguring the 160 as a cat. Multis rule!

--- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
I have plans for a CC29 catamarran by Ross
Turner. The plans show a wooden wing mast that

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Sure you could glass the outside of a mast, the
question wasn't whether there was some other way than
plywood, but whether plywood was viable given the loss
of vertical fiber. The are lots of ply spars, so it
is doable.

>>I should think glassing the outside of a mast would

take care of most 
of this. Of course that means you can't see the wood
anymore. 
 

I am not sure that you can use the uni glass in the
same way. You can add carbon to the inside of a wood
spar, confident that if it is done properly, the wood
will load up, and then gradualy be backed up by the
carbon fibre. If you put the carbon, or glass one the
outside, it loads up first, and tends not to share the
load with the wood. That's fine, but you have to use
enough fiber to bear all the load, and you are stuck
with the weight and cost of wood that is mostly just a
permanet mold. If you put the glass on the inside, it
tends to be too low modulus to pick up the load from
the wood before it ruptures. This is all just
spitballing, there may be some combo of wood and glass
modulus that works as well as carbon, though I don't
know it.

>>> If the criterion is strength instead of stiffness,

you can probably 
use unidirectional glass instead of carbon. Very
strong, just not very 
stiff. Should be a lot cheaper. 
 
</tt>

 



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You can use vaccum to glue up your mast. I don't
think there is any reason to believe the bird's mouth
will work better than say enough biscuits just to
stabilize it for the vaccuming.

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One of the rules of thumb for building any hollow mast are that the
part passing through the partners (or any other point of concentrated
stress) should be solid, and the transition from solid core to hollow
core should be gradual. That is, the core should be tapered on its end
(s) so as to not cause a hard spot where forces can concentrate and
break the mast. You have taken a different approach to resolve the
problem by adding 'glass to the outside, as well as staves to the
inside. It sounds like a reasonable solution. If a proper schedule of
laminations could be devised, glass alone could probably serve, thus
eliminating the need to install anything on the inside of the spar,

porky

--- In bolger@y..., Fraser Howell <fraser.howell@n...> wrote:
> Greetings from Halifax,
> I made a birdsmouth mast and gaff for my Chebacco. Actually I
built
> 2 masts. The first one broke. Clean as a whistle, at the partner.
There
> was no warning, and it wasn't particularly windy. I think it was
> progressive weakening caused by the crushing force of the mast
against
> the partner. I had to question whether the technique was feasible
for an
> unstayed mast, but the idea is so cool that I tried again,
reinforcing
> the second one in the way of the partner. The reinforcement was a
> wrapping of epoxy and cloth on the outside, and some tapered staves
> glued on inside, again in the way of the partner. The first mast
lasted
> 2 months, the second held up through all of last year. It shows no
wear,
> and I expect it will last.
> The advantages are that the hollow mast is 60% of the weight of
the
> solid; That makes the boat slightly stiffer, and the mast is easier
to
> raise/lower. I can hide the halyards inside the mast. For some
reason
> the spars are stiffer so I hold the sail shape longer.
> I think you need a good tablesaw or shaper and a "bandit" type
clamp
> for every foot of mast. When all is done it is not much more work
than
> starting with a tree.
> Fraser Howell

Greetings from Halifax,
I made a birdsmouth mast and gaff for my Chebacco. Actually I built
2 masts. The first one broke. Clean as a whistle, at the partner. There
was no warning, and it wasn't particularly windy. I think it was
progressive weakening caused by the crushing force of the mast against
the partner. I had to question whether the technique was feasible for an
unstayed mast, but the idea is so cool that I tried again, reinforcing
the second one in the way of the partner. The reinforcement was a
wrapping of epoxy and cloth on the outside, and some tapered staves
glued on inside, again in the way of the partner. The first mast lasted
2 months, the second held up through all of last year. It shows no wear,
and I expect it will last.
The advantages are that the hollow mast is 60% of the weight of the
solid; That makes the boat slightly stiffer, and the mast is easier to
raise/lower. I can hide the halyards inside the mast. For some reason
the spars are stiffer so I hold the sail shape longer.
I think you need a good tablesaw or shaper and a "bandit" type clamp
for every foot of mast. When all is done it is not much more work than
starting with a tree.
Fraser Howell

Hi Jeff,
Of course as soon as you add stays you have entered a whole different
ball game. The stays after all are going to carry a lot of the load
that in an unstayed rig is carried by the larger mass of the mast.
Bob

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I have plans for a CC29 catamarran by Ross Turner. The plans show a
wooden wing mast that pivots with the sail. It incorporates a slide
(aluminum pipe) for the sail that eliminates the air gap between the
mast and sail. Being shaped as an airfoil, it also increases the
efficiency of the rig.
>
> It's built hollow with 12"X48"X1/16" birch plywood skins (hobby
supplies). Easy to build. Basically built around a center spar of DF
or Cedar, dimensional 2x4x 32'. Leading and trailing edge is made of
2x2 shaped stock. Ends up looking like an airplane wing foil.
>
> I figured it was about a $200 mast when fully complete, not counting
rigging, but including the slide, made up of Home Depot materials.
This is ingenius and handles a 450 sq. ft. sail. Can be laid down
because it is mounted on a pivot with 3 stays.
>
> This type of mast building could be adapted to the I60. It is
extremely light weight and proven.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

See below

--- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
snip
> Your right about one thing, and that is that there is less fiber in
a
> vertical orientation with plywood. On the other hand, there are a
> few things working in our favour. One is that the ply will likely
be
> better quality and species, another is that you can make up for
> strength deficits with relatively minor increases in diameter,
> particularly when one considers the species and grade issues. Hoop
> strength that plies provide is not lost if it is used properly, the
> question about the solid spar is what is holding it together against
> splits? snip

I should think glassing the outside of a mast would take care of most
of this. Of course that means you can't see the wood anymore.

> On the composite construction, it can be very fast, for one thing,
> none of the materials needs to be milled to start with, and there
> would be less joints cicumferencialy. The real issue is that they
> are designed usualy, to operate off a stiffness parameter, not a
> strength one. They are amazingly efficient at that. This thing
> being freestanding, is probably more of a strength issue, and while
> you could obviously beat the ball out of the park with composites
> there also, we probably wouldn't be talking about lower cost than
> with the premium softwoods.

If the criterion is strength instead of stiffness, you can probably
use unidirectional glass instead of carbon. Very strong, just not very
stiff. Should be a lot cheaper.

I have plans for a CC29 catamarran by Ross Turner. The plans show a wooden wing mast that pivots with the sail. It incorporates a slide (aluminum pipe) for the sail that eliminates the air gap between the mast and sail. Being shaped as an airfoil, it also increases the efficiency of the rig.

It's built hollow with 12"X48"X1/16" birch plywood skins (hobby supplies). Easy to build. Basically built around a center spar of DF or Cedar, dimensional 2x4x 32'. Leading and trailing edge is made of 2x2 shaped stock. Ends up looking like an airplane wing foil.

I figured it was about a $200 mast when fully complete, not counting rigging, but including the slide, made up of Home Depot materials. This is ingenius and handles a 450 sq. ft. sail. Can be laid down because it is mounted on a pivot with 3 stays.

This type of mast building could be adapted to the I60. It is extremely light weight and proven.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:

> Aren't you adding a lot of weight without strength with the plies

that

> run the wrong way?
>
> Would like to hear more about the layup. Seems like wing spars

would

> put the work back in. Composite core? 1/8" of which material?
> 3/4" in weight of 3/8"??? Guess I'm having trouble following
> this. Thanks
>

Your right about one thing, and that is that there is less fiber in a
vertical orientation with plywood. On the other hand, there are a
few things working in our favour. One is that the ply will likely be
better quality and species, another is that you can make up for
strength deficits with relatively minor increases in diameter,
particularly when one considers the species and grade issues. Hoop
strength that plies provide is not lost if it is used properly, the
question about the solid spar is what is holding it together against
splits? There will be a number of factors tearing them apart, be
they environmental or load related. I don't think most of us would
look all that favourably at the idea of building bolger boats out of
2x lumber. He used to design this way, consider Burgendy. Now he
may not have wished us to use 2x lumber in her, but neither is he
particularly recomending that where spars on his other designs are
concerned.

On the composite construction, it can be very fast, for one thing,
none of the materials needs to be milled to start with, and there
would be less joints cicumferencialy. The real issue is that they
are designed usualy, to operate off a stiffness parameter, not a
strength one. They are amazingly efficient at that. This thing
being freestanding, is probably more of a strength issue, and while
you could obviously beat the ball out of the park with composites
there also, we probably wouldn't be talking about lower cost than
with the premium softwoods.

Aren't you adding a lot of weight without strength with the plies that
run the wrong way?

Would like to hear more about the layup. Seems like wing spars would
put the work back in. Composite core? 1/8" of which material?
3/4" in weight of 3/8"??? Guess I'm having trouble following
this. Thanks

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> What you might also like to consider is 3/4" marine
> ply in a hollow tube format You can get that at prety
> close to $1-1.5 a square foot. Or about $1.33-2 a
> Bfoot. If you could do it in composite, you could
> make massive wing spars in vaccum bagged 1/8" with a
> composite core, for well less of the material cost you
> are quoting for lumber. For instance, you can make
> 3/4" material in the weight of 3/8" material for about
> 1 dollar a square foot, with additional cost for
> epoxy, and core material. Still well below the prices
> you are quoting.Yo could just roll up 1/8" material
> around a core also.
>
>

The reason for building spars out of ply is the same
as for building hulls.

Anhinga has a bolger mostly ply spar.

--- thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
What you might also like to consider is 3/4" marine 

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Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

What you might also like to consider is 3/4" marine
ply in a hollow tube format You can get that at prety
close to $1-1.5 a square foot. Or about $1.33-2 a
Bfoot. If you could do it in composite, you could
make massive wing spars in vaccum bagged 1/8" with a
composite core, for well less of the material cost you
are quoting for lumber. For instance, you can make
3/4" material in the weight of 3/8" material for about
1 dollar a square foot, with additional cost for
epoxy, and core material. Still well below the prices
you are quoting.Yo could just roll up 1/8" material
around a core also.

--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
FBBB -- 
 
I just gave Condon's a call to see what they get for
mast-grade 
spruce and fir. There are a bunch of "it
depends", but in the end 
you'll pay between $4.50-$8.50 a board foot. 
 
Someone check my math, but I think a 32 foot,
6"x6" hunk of wood is 
96 board feet of lumber. A "perfect" hollow
spar 6" in diameter with 
a 3" hole in the middle would be about 60% of
that, or 60B.F. I 
suppose the actual amount of wood needed to make
"bird's mouth" would 
be somewhere in the middle. I'd guess the epoxy usage
would be about 
the same. 
 
So, for a 32'x6" spar: 
 
Home Despot Doug Fir laminated brute: $150 
 
Condon straight grained bird's mouth beauty: $537.50
(75BF x $6.50/BF) 
 
You could still make the brute hollow without too much
fuss (see 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.html)">http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.html)</a>
and it might 
even be a little easier to leave the brute solid at
the top and 
bottom than to insert plugs in the beauty. 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
C.E.P. 
415 W.46th Street 
New York, New York 10036 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 



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Up until a couple of decades ago there used to be a company by the name
of Pigeon Spar up here in East Boston. They are gone now, fire, I think
or some other disaster. I used them to make the spars for a 12' sailboat
that I used to build in Marblehead.
The relevance to this thread was that on a visit to discuss the little
stuff, I was shown some of their giant stuff, and truly huge it was.
They had been building ship's spars for a long time and in the course of
their work had developed a spar turning lathe.
It occupied the whole length of one side of their long somewhat narrow
shop.
They would apparently first glue up a blank the full length of the spar
to be worked. Then they would mount it in their lathe. With support for
the piece every few feet, they would round the work down to the mast's
taper marked on the floor. They would then shift the supports, center
the spar in new supports and round the original square support areas
down to the round. They had rollers which could be adjusted to center
the work and the whole length of the new mast could be made to roll
true.
With the lathe work done, and smoothing and sanding carried out in the
lathe, it took only a moderate amount of further hand smoothing before
the first coats of varnish or paint went onto the new spar.
I don't know if any spar makers today have such a device but if they do
perhaps a deal could be struck in which we might be able to supply a
glued up blank for the spar we want and they turn it to the proper shape
with the final finishing remaining our responsibility.
Just a thought
Jim

Jeff Blunck wrote:

> >One story was actually from the book written by Joshua <Slocum.
>
> Actually according to his book, Joshua Slocum lost one of his first
> (of many) ships in Florida. He had to pull in to Virginia after a bad
> storm splintered his main mast. The local yard only had fresh cut
> available so they took it to keep on schedule. They kept a close eye
> on it and sure enough it started to green up so they did all the
> normal precautions. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough and the old boat
> couldn't stand the pressure it all, sprung a plank. They pumped and
> bailed like crazy but couldn't get it beached or docked in time. No
> lives lost, just embarrassed.
>
> Or so the story goes....
>
> Jeff
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>One story was actually from the book written by Joshua <Slocum.

Actually according to his book, Joshua Slocum lost one of his first (of many) ships in Florida. He had to pull in to Virginia after a bad storm splintered his main mast. The local yard only had fresh cut available so they took it to keep on schedule. They kept a close eye on it and sure enough it started to green up so they did all the normal precautions. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough and the old boat couldn't stand the pressure it all, sprung a plank. They pumped and bailed like crazy but couldn't get it beached or docked in time. No lives lost, just embarrassed.

Or so the story goes....

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually a lot of the bilge water that collect was fresh water from rain and condesation, waste, etc. Bilges where nasty to say the least.

One story was actually from the book written by Joshua Slocum. They would pour salt water in to try and stop it but usually it was from the very center of the mast that the roots would start and would be more or less sealed, using it's own moisture to start up.

As the story goes, that if they noticed the mast greening up or any sign of growth, they would bore small holes in the bottom of the mast and force borax, turpentine, salt water, or anything they had to kill it off. Almost always it would work, but on rare occassions they'd have a problem.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff,
It is difficult to imagine a white pine so robust that it could
actually grow in the salty brine which was surely the content of the
bilges during the great age of sail.
But then again,maybe those old time stories delt with boats on
the Great Lakes?
Just curious,
Peter Lenihan

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
>
> If you read old stories and ship logs, you'll find that some of the
other woods if not completely dried for a year or so would start to
grow roots in the bilge of the wooden boats. Nothing could be done
about it except pull the mast. Many a boat sprung planks and sank
because of fresh cut replacement mast growing again. You can't pull
a mast when your 6 weeks away from port! They just had cross their
fingers and hope to get home!
>
> Really!
>
> Jeff

>> White pines. Worthless as masts, I'm afraid.
>
>Those white pines were so coveted by the Royal Navy as masts that the
>colonists were forbidden to cut them.

I seem to remember reading in the American Museum of Natural History
that when Europeans first arrived on the East Coast, there were
endless stands of these white pine, six feet in diameter or better.
Can you imagine? There are still a few places in Oregon where you can
walk among Doug Fir and Incense Ceder with trunks 8 feet or better.
That only think I can compare it to is being in a cathedral.

There's a stretch of the Upper Rogue River near Crater lake that has
stands like these, at least near the river. The river runs cold and
gin clear, with beaver and trout in abundance. Growing to the bank is
an old growth forest is interspersed with lush meadows. Move quietly
and you might see elk, cougar, or bear.

-D

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

White pine is soft and flexible if not too dry. As a mast, even oversize, they would reduce the weight aloft. Also, when white pine is cut, it dies! Down side is they are not very rot resistant unless treated with pine tar or such.

If you read old stories and ship logs, you'll find that some of the other woods if not completely dried for a year or so would start to grow roots in the bilge of the wooden boats. Nothing could be done about it except pull the mast. Many a boat sprung planks and sank because of fresh cut replacement mast growing again. You can't pull a mast when your 6 weeks away from port! They just had cross their fingers and hope to get home!

Really!

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Making Big Masts/Spars

> White pines. Worthless as masts, I'm afraid.

Those white pines were so coveted by the Royal Navy as masts that the
colonists were forbidden to cut them.

Peter

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> White pines. Worthless as masts, I'm afraid.

Those white pines were so coveted by the Royal Navy as masts that the
colonists were forbidden to cut them.

Peter

On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, David Ryan wrote:

> When we went up to Lake Placid last year, I did notice there were some
> pretty dense thickets of some sort of evergreen. Long, straight poles
> with few or no branches for 30-40. Can you see me hauling a few of
> those home on my Civic?

White pines. Worthless as masts, I'm afraid, even if you drove a semi
instead of a Civic.

All these mastmaking procedures sound like a heck of a lot of work.
Almost makes me wonder if laying up a composite one would be any
worse!

--- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
> Maybe. Maybe not, laminated boards have less tendency to spilt.
> --- In bolger@y..., "John S Harper" <jsharper@u...> wrote:
> > That's a lot of work to recreate a solid pole out of boards.
> >
> > Makes me think George Buehler's onto something with his spot a
> likely tree
> > and cut it down method.
> >
> snip

Definitely agree with John and George on this one. I believe
Buehler's advice is if you don't have suitable trees where you're
building your boat, finish it without the mast(s) and then motor it
so somewhere that has trees! Of course like much of Buehler's advice,
it's colored by his geography. It's been a long time since there were
many mast-making trees growing on Long Island!

When we went up to Lake Placid last year, I did notice there were
some pretty dense thickets of some sort of evergreen. Long, straight
poles with few or no branches for 30-40. Can you see me hauling a few
of those home on my Civic?

YIBB,

David

>That's a lot of work to recreate a solid pole out of boards.
>
>Makes me think George Buehler's onto something with his spot a likely tree
>and cut it down method.

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Maybe. Maybe not, laminated boards have less tendency to spilt.

--- In bolger@y..., "John S Harper" <jsharper@u...> wrote:
> That's a lot of work to recreate a solid pole out of boards.
>
> Makes me think George Buehler's onto something with his spot a
likely tree
> and cut it down method.
>
>
> "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> on 04/03/2002 11:55:29 PM
>
> Please respond to bolger@y...
>
> To: bolger@y...
> cc:
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Making Big Masts/Spars
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> David,
>
> Ah! I see your question now.
>
> The largest spars I've ever built were for my Benford Gunkholer. The
> mast is 27'long by 5" diameter. I built it square from two-by-six
> (actually 1.5"x5.5") clear Douglas fir (from Condon's) and rounded
it
> afterward. I used the process where you first turn the square
section
> into an octagon. An 8" Makita tablesaw and guides set on saw horses
> were employed for this step. On a larger stick a bandsaw or a big
> Skilsaw would work. After that I used a cheap and nasty Sears power
> plane to divide the eight facets into sixteen and then thirty-two. I
> finished with the "inside-out sanding belt on a drum bit" to do the
> final rounding. Sam Manning describes this trick in an old issue of
> WoodenBoat, but I think it's pretty easy to visualize. The hardest
> part of the job was cutting the 12:1 scarfs in the 1.5" thick
timbers
> to make up the needed 27' lengths. The next toughest was cutting the
> corners off the square blank. The rest was mostly planing, sanding
and
> making sure the stick stayed straight.
>
> If I had it to do over again, I would definitely build such a spar
> using the bird's mouth technique. It would be easier, cheaper,
lighter
> and less time consuming,
>
> porky
>
> > I the absence of a cheaper and/or better plan, I look forward to
> > turning $100 worth of Home Depot lumber into a handcrafted 30 foot
> > mast. At twice the diameter and twice the length, that should be
> four
> > times the work of making the 16 footer, right? Sounds like money
and
> > effort well spent! And slap, slap, slap is definitely better than
> > ping ping ping!
> >
> > But I'd still love to hear from someone who's actually laid up a
big
> > mast. Any part of the process that doesn't scale?
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
> >
> > C.E.P.
> > 415 W.46th Street
> > New York, New York 10036
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

That's a lot of work to recreate a solid pole out of boards.

Makes me think George Buehler's onto something with his spot a likely tree
and cut it down method.

"porcupinefysh" <porcupine@...> on 04/03/2002 11:55:29 PM

Please respond tobolger@yahoogroups.com

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject: [bolger] Re: Making Big Masts/Spars

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
David,

Ah! I see your question now.

The largest spars I've ever built were for my Benford Gunkholer. The
mast is 27'long by 5" diameter. I built it square from two-by-six
(actually 1.5"x5.5") clear Douglas fir (from Condon's) and rounded it
afterward. I used the process where you first turn the square section
into an octagon. An 8" Makita tablesaw and guides set on saw horses
were employed for this step. On a larger stick a bandsaw or a big
Skilsaw would work. After that I used a cheap and nasty Sears power
plane to divide the eight facets into sixteen and then thirty-two. I
finished with the "inside-out sanding belt on a drum bit" to do the
final rounding. Sam Manning describes this trick in an old issue of
WoodenBoat, but I think it's pretty easy to visualize. The hardest
part of the job was cutting the 12:1 scarfs in the 1.5" thick timbers
to make up the needed 27' lengths. The next toughest was cutting the
corners off the square blank. The rest was mostly planing, sanding and
making sure the stick stayed straight.

If I had it to do over again, I would definitely build such a spar
using the bird's mouth technique. It would be easier, cheaper, lighter
and less time consuming,

porky

> I the absence of a cheaper and/or better plan, I look forward to
> turning $100 worth of Home Depot lumber into a handcrafted 30 foot
> mast. At twice the diameter and twice the length, that should be
four
> times the work of making the 16 footer, right? Sounds like money and
> effort well spent! And slap, slap, slap is definitely better than
> ping ping ping!
>
> But I'd still love to hear from someone who's actually laid up a big
> mast. Any part of the process that doesn't scale?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

FBBB --

I just gave Condon's a call to see what they get for mast-grade
spruce and fir. There are a bunch of "it depends", but in the end
you'll pay between $4.50-$8.50 a board foot.

Someone check my math, but I think a 32 foot, 6"x6" hunk of wood is
96 board feet of lumber. A "perfect" hollow spar 6" in diameter with
a 3" hole in the middle would be about 60% of that, or 60B.F. I
suppose the actual amount of wood needed to make "bird's mouth" would
be somewhere in the middle. I'd guess the epoxy usage would be about
the same.

So, for a 32'x6" spar:

Home Despot Doug Fir laminated brute: $150

Condon straight grained bird's mouth beauty: $537.50 (75BF x $6.50/BF)

You could still make the brute hollow without too much fuss (see
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.html)and it might
even be a little easier to leave the brute solid at the top and
bottom than to insert plugs in the beauty.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

>I would prefer a fat bear holding a beer can.

Chainsaw sculpture is a minor regional specialty in NY's Adirondack
Park. I saw several bears last summer, but none with a beer can.

Reuel Parker's "New Cold Molding" book has an excellent section on
glueing up spars from Douglas Fir. As I recall, he uses six staves
with "mitered" corners. I think that the bird's mouth technique would
be easier because it is self-aligning. Even so, it would be worth
reading.

Long before the article in WB (which popularized the name "bird's
mouth) there was an article in MAIB by a guy who built a pretty big
mast by the same method. He called it a Noble spar after the guy who
patented the idea in England. (I think there is some thought that the
idea has been in use in China for centuries.) He used a circular saw
to do the cutting and a power plane to do the shaping.

Peter

Ed Haile gave me info on his alum mast for Martha Jane, he cut 30lbs from weight of mast and made the
boat selfrighting. Without going into details, ask PCB about this, as a 30% reduction in mast weight
couldn't hurt. Clyde

rlspell2000 wrote:

> emmm. If I was building the I60 I would look into buying some
> appropriatly sized aluminum piping. Ask Gregg for the sizing, I think

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
David,

Ah! I see your question now.

The largest spars I've ever built were for my Benford Gunkholer. The
mast is 27'long by 5" diameter. I built it square from two-by-six
(actually 1.5"x5.5") clear Douglas fir (from Condon's) and rounded it
afterward. I used the process where you first turn the square section
into an octagon. An 8" Makita tablesaw and guides set on saw horses
were employed for this step. On a larger stick a bandsaw or a big
Skilsaw would work. After that I used a cheap and nasty Sears power
plane to divide the eight facets into sixteen and then thirty-two. I
finished with the "inside-out sanding belt on a drum bit" to do the
final rounding. Sam Manning describes this trick in an old issue of
WoodenBoat, but I think it's pretty easy to visualize. The hardest
part of the job was cutting the 12:1 scarfs in the 1.5" thick timbers
to make up the needed 27' lengths. The next toughest was cutting the
corners off the square blank. The rest was mostly planing, sanding and
making sure the stick stayed straight.

If I had it to do over again, I would definitely build such a spar
using the bird's mouth technique. It would be easier, cheaper, lighter
and less time consuming,

porky

> I the absence of a cheaper and/or better plan, I look forward to
> turning $100 worth of Home Depot lumber into a handcrafted 30 foot
> mast. At twice the diameter and twice the length, that should be
four
> times the work of making the 16 footer, right? Sounds like money and
> effort well spent! And slap, slap, slap is definitely better than
> ping ping ping!
>
> But I'd still love to hear from someone who's actually laid up a big
> mast. Any part of the process that doesn't scale?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

And Lee Valley sells birds mouth router bits, of just
spline them with biscuits.
--- porcupinefysh <porcupine@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
David, 
 
I'm surprised that no one has suggested the old bird's
mouth mast 
trick to answer this problem. Building large masts
like those for I60 

______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games!http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

I made a 40' mast out of solid spruce a long time ago. It was basically
two pieces glued up side by side. The two side by side pieces were
actually two scarfed pieces to get the full 40' length. I laid the old
broke mast on saw horses next to the blank and using a set of large
calipers inherited from my Dad, I used a draw knife and planes to cut
the thing down to size, complete with teardrop shape and taper. In the
course of three days I made a stack of shavings 18" high by 40' long,
and it came out beautifully, one of the most satisfying things I have
ever done. I think it is probably easier to get a good looking job large
hunks of wood.

HJ

>
> But I'd still love to hear from someone who's actually laid up a big
> mast. Any part of the process that doesn't scale?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>

David,

I'm surprised that no one has suggested the old bird's mouth mast
trick to answer this problem. Building large masts like those for I60
can be quite economical using this technique, as the slats are of a
small cross section and little wood has to be hacked off to make them
round. They will also be considerably lighter for the same overall
strength.

I don't have the information with me, but I once calculated that
building the 10" diameter by 2" wall thickness spruce masts for Loose
Moose 2 with bird's mouths would use less than half the wood required
in Bolger's original design. Rounding a rectangular section results in
a lot of expensive wood shavings on the shop floor. It's something to
think about,

porky

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through BWAOM to
> see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
> Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking at
> the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
> bigger. (I hope)
>
> I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to offer
> your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did you
> get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

>You might even try [using a steady hand] "chain saw" sculpting the
>rough part of the cut. Of course, chain saws are dangerous, BE
>CAREFUL. While you're at it, sculpt me one of those tacky lawn
>ornaments, I would prefer a fat bear holding a beer can.

Only slightly less dangerous and effective is sawsall sculpting. I
used this method to good effect on my Scooner masts. Skillsaw is a
good tool too.

I the absence of a cheaper and/or better plan, I look forward to
turning $100 worth of Home Depot lumber into a handcrafted 30 foot
mast. At twice the diameter and twice the length, that should be four
times the work of making the 16 footer, right? Sounds like money and
effort well spent! And slap, slap, slap is definitely better than
ping ping ping!

But I'd still love to hear from someone who's actually laid up a big
mast. Any part of the process that doesn't scale?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

David,
I guess it depends on what you prefer to listen to at night, "slap,
slap, slap" or "Ping, Ping, Ping" I prefer the slap sound, pings
keep me awake for at least a night until I get used to it.

David Jost
"looking to purchase a gal. of Smith's CPES to finish off the
brightwork on Firefly."
. You won't save much if

> you go with good wood.

On Thursday 04 April 2002 06:24, rlspell2000 wrote:

> You might prices some 6", 1/8" wall aluminum piping, instead of flag
> poles. Flag poles are tapered, not the best for a gaff rig. And, I
> expect they cost a bit more than the raw stock they make them out of.

I have heard that the taper in flagpoles is often achieved by
compressing the top of the pole, meaning that there is no
weight advantage over straight pipe, which is almost certainly
cheaper.

--
Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
Perth Western Australia
tel: +618 9256 0083

Schedule 40 is the standard thickness for standard plumbing pipe. 6"
sch 40 pipe would have a 6" INSIDE diameter and atleast a .375 thick
wall. We are talking about something that is rated at a 3000 PSI
maximum burst pressure and weighs about 9 pounds a linear foot. Since
a 72" length would be 54 pounds of aluminum, the price doesn't seem
that out of line.

Dick Pilz

--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > 72" lengths of 6" diameter schedule 40 aluminum pipe @ $135 each
+
> shipping
> >
> > What's schedule 40?
>
> Something is not right, 72 inch is only 6 feet. Schedule 40 is
> the "thin wall conduit spec." I recall. [I might be wrong.]
Schedule
> 60 it thicker wall. $135 should buy much more than a single piece
of
> this stuff I would guess, probably buys one bundle. Connecting 6
> foot pieces end to end with strength would be not easy. Ask PCB
his
> opinion.
>
> I would favor using Home Depot Doug. Fir 2x8 laminated yourself.
> Rounding off the laminated pieces would be a big job, I would
> recommend using an adze for the rough cut; before you get down to
> using a belt sander. Doug. Fir is pretty hard wood. [closer to
oak
> than pine]
>
> You might even try [using a steady hand] "chain saw" sculpting the
> rough part of the cut. Of course, chain saws are dangerous, BE
> CAREFUL. While you're at it, sculpt me one of those tacky lawn
> ornaments, I would prefer a fat bear holding a beer can.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:

> 72" lengths of 6" diameter schedule 40 aluminum pipe @ $135 each +

shipping

>
> What's schedule 40?

Something is not right, 72 inch is only 6 feet. Schedule 40 is
the "thin wall conduit spec." I recall. [I might be wrong.] Schedule
60 it thicker wall. $135 should buy much more than a single piece of
this stuff I would guess, probably buys one bundle. Connecting 6
foot pieces end to end with strength would be not easy. Ask PCB his
opinion.

I would favor using Home Depot Doug. Fir 2x8 laminated yourself.
Rounding off the laminated pieces would be a big job, I would
recommend using an adze for the rough cut; before you get down to
using a belt sander. Doug. Fir is pretty hard wood. [closer to oak
than pine]

You might even try [using a steady hand] "chain saw" sculpting the
rough part of the cut. Of course, chain saws are dangerous, BE
CAREFUL. While you're at it, sculpt me one of those tacky lawn
ornaments, I would prefer a fat bear holding a beer can.

Just a quick look on the 'net.

72" lengths of 6" diameter schedule 40 aluminum pipe @ $135 each + shipping

What's schedule 40?

>You might prices some 6", 1/8" wall aluminum piping, instead of flag
>poles. Flag poles are tapered, not the best for a gaff rig. And, I
>expect they cost a bit more than the raw stock they make them out of.
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> I took a look at the layup for the Offshore Leaboarder and then
>drew
>> up my own version using 1.5"x7.5" inch stock. I think the whole I
>> left in the middle is the same size(?) Wouldn't be much of a trick
>to
>> leave them solid at the bottom and the top for the tabernacle and
>> masthead fittings The sketch can be seen at:
>>
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.gif
>>
>>
>> Doug Fir 2x8s are $.75/foot at Home Depot. Not the best wood I've
>> ever seen, but *seems* passable. A stack of four of these would
>make
>> a hunk of wood you could carve a 6" diameter mast out of --
>32x4x$.75
>> = $96.00. Throw in another $50 for epoxy and sanding paper.
>>
>> How's that compare to flag poles?
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> >emmm. If I was building the I60 I would look into buying some
>> >appropriatly sized aluminum piping. Ask Gregg for the sizing, I
>think
>> >he used 1/8" wall flagpoles for his schooner. You won't save much
>if
>> >you go with good wood.
>> >
>> >Speaking of which, picked up the 14ft boards for the boom and gaff
>> >for the CLC today. Picked over the dough fir and picked a couple of
>> >16ft (no 14ft DF) 2x6's with minimal knots. Still more than I would
>> >have liked. On the way out saw 2x6 "white wood" in nice 14ft
>lengths,
>> >with little bitty knots. And, it was half the price!
>> >
>> >Guess which ones are on the truck.
>> >
>> >
>> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> >> FBBB --
>> >>
>> >> I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through
>BWAOM
>> >to
>> >> see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
>> >> Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking
>at
>> >> the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
>> >> bigger. (I hope)
>> >>
>> >> I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to
>> >offer
>> >> your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did
>> >you
>> >> get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.
>> >>
>> >> YIBB,
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> C.E.P.
>> >> 415 W.46th Street
>> >> New York, New York 10036
>> >>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> >> (212) 247-0296
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bolger rules!!!
>> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>> >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
>like
>> >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>> >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

You might prices some 6", 1/8" wall aluminum piping, instead of flag
poles. Flag poles are tapered, not the best for a gaff rig. And, I
expect they cost a bit more than the raw stock they make them out of.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> I took a look at the layup for the Offshore Leaboarder and then
drew
> up my own version using 1.5"x7.5" inch stock. I think the whole I
> left in the middle is the same size(?) Wouldn't be much of a trick
to
> leave them solid at the bottom and the top for the tabernacle and
> masthead fittings The sketch can be seen at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.gif
>
>
> Doug Fir 2x8s are $.75/foot at Home Depot. Not the best wood I've
> ever seen, but *seems* passable. A stack of four of these would
make
> a hunk of wood you could carve a 6" diameter mast out of --
32x4x$.75
> = $96.00. Throw in another $50 for epoxy and sanding paper.
>
> How's that compare to flag poles?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> >emmm. If I was building the I60 I would look into buying some
> >appropriatly sized aluminum piping. Ask Gregg for the sizing, I
think
> >he used 1/8" wall flagpoles for his schooner. You won't save much
if
> >you go with good wood.
> >
> >Speaking of which, picked up the 14ft boards for the boom and gaff
> >for the CLC today. Picked over the dough fir and picked a couple of
> >16ft (no 14ft DF) 2x6's with minimal knots. Still more than I would
> >have liked. On the way out saw 2x6 "white wood" in nice 14ft
lengths,
> >with little bitty knots. And, it was half the price!
> >
> >Guess which ones are on the truck.
> >
> >
> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >> FBBB --
> >>
> >> I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through
BWAOM
> >to
> >> see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
> >> Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking
at
> >> the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
> >> bigger. (I hope)
> >>
> >> I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to
> >offer
> >> your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did
> >you
> >> get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.
> >>
> >> YIBB,
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> C.E.P.
> >> 415 W.46th Street
> >> New York, New York 10036
> >>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> >> (212) 247-0296
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

I took a look at the layup for the Offshore Leaboarder and then drew
up my own version using 1.5"x7.5" inch stock. I think the whole I
left in the middle is the same size(?) Wouldn't be much of a trick to
leave them solid at the bottom and the top for the tabernacle and
masthead fittings The sketch can be seen at:

http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/mastlayup.gif

Doug Fir 2x8s are $.75/foot at Home Depot. Not the best wood I've
ever seen, but *seems* passable. A stack of four of these would make
a hunk of wood you could carve a 6" diameter mast out of -- 32x4x$.75
= $96.00. Throw in another $50 for epoxy and sanding paper.

How's that compare to flag poles?

YIBB,

David

>emmm. If I was building the I60 I would look into buying some
>appropriatly sized aluminum piping. Ask Gregg for the sizing, I think
>he used 1/8" wall flagpoles for his schooner. You won't save much if
>you go with good wood.
>
>Speaking of which, picked up the 14ft boards for the boom and gaff
>for the CLC today. Picked over the dough fir and picked a couple of
>16ft (no 14ft DF) 2x6's with minimal knots. Still more than I would
>have liked. On the way out saw 2x6 "white wood" in nice 14ft lengths,
>with little bitty knots. And, it was half the price!
>
>Guess which ones are on the truck.
>
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> FBBB --
>>
>> I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through BWAOM
>to
>> see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
>> Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking at
>> the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
>> bigger. (I hope)
>>
>> I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to
>offer
>> your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did
>you
>> get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

emmm. If I was building the I60 I would look into buying some
appropriatly sized aluminum piping. Ask Gregg for the sizing, I think
he used 1/8" wall flagpoles for his schooner. You won't save much if
you go with good wood.

Speaking of which, picked up the 14ft boards for the boom and gaff
for the CLC today. Picked over the dough fir and picked a couple of
16ft (no 14ft DF) 2x6's with minimal knots. Still more than I would
have liked. On the way out saw 2x6 "white wood" in nice 14ft lengths,
with little bitty knots. And, it was half the price!

Guess which ones are on the truck.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through BWAOM
to
> see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
> Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking at
> the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
> bigger. (I hope)
>
> I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to
offer
> your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did
you
> get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

FBBB --

I took the sail area figures for the I60 and combed through BWAOM to
see what other Bolger designs have similar set up. The Offshore
Leaboarder and AS29 both have rigs about the same size. Looking at
the drawings, it looks like doing the Light Scooner spars, only
bigger. (I hope)

I think we have some AS29 builders on here. Any of you care to offer
your adventures in building 32 foot masts, or 20 foot booms? Did you
get fancy Sitka Spruce, or pick the best at Home Depot, etc.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296