Re: [bolger] Re: Fillet recipe?

It isn't the limestone that is expensive it is the use
of epoxy, labour, and the weight. Mix two pots of
gunk using PL and microballons, with enough Cabosil in
each to eliminate sag. You will get 2,3,4 times more
gunk out of the same epoxy using MBs as you get using
PL. Everyone's prices will vary, but in my region,
for my boats, it makes no sense to spend the time
mixing 3 times the epoxy to get the same volume. It
makes no sense in terms of the cost of epoxy. It
makes no sense to add that much weight, where
elsewhere I will be spending good bucks on stuff like
balsa core etc... to keep weight down, just to
economize on the filler.

--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:

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<tt>
On Thu, 2 May 2002, thomas dalzell wrote:

> Pulverized limestone is undoubtedly strong

enough. It is a very

> expensive material in the sense that it yields

very little compound

> for a unit of epoxy, and the material is also

heavy. 
 
Pulverized limestone, while heavy, it *NOT* expensive
in terms of $$$'s. I 
used "athletic field chalk", which is
pulverized limestone. I got 50 lbs 
for about $3. I aslo use it on my lawn to
sweeten the soil. 
 
 
</tt>

 



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On Thu, 2 May 2002, thomas dalzell wrote:

> Pulverized limestone is undoubtedly strong enough. It is a very
> expensive material in the sense that it yields very little compound
> for a unit of epoxy, and the material is also heavy.

Pulverized limestone, while heavy, it *NOT* expensive in terms of $$$'s. I
used "athletic field chalk", which is pulverized limestone. I got 50 lbs
for about $3. I aslo use it on my lawn to sweeten the soil.

<tt>
I experimented on scraps with pulverized limestone (as
recommended by 
Carnell)as an epoxy filler tonight for a 90 degree
fillet. Got a good 
peanut butter consistancy and brown color, but it
sagged too much. I 
guess I'll add some cabosil. I'll check the strength
in a day or two. 
It is too cold here (50 - 60) for the epoxy to cure
very fast. Do 90 
degree fillets have to be covered with cloth? or is
the epoxy alone 
strong enough? 
 

Pulverized limestone is undoubtedly strong enough. It
is a very expensive material in the sense that it
yields very little compound for a unit of epoxy, and
the material is also heavy. That is the reason for
microballons, as much as three times the volume of
comp./unit epoxy.

Yes and no is the answer on cloth. One usually does
not require cloth where the loads are light, or where
the compound comes under compression. Where it will
be worked both ways, or the loads are major, then
cloth will significantly (massively) reduce the amount
of material required in the fillet. A listing of the
amounts can be found in Gougeon materials, and the
non-glass supported fillets are hugely larger than
those we typically find in boats. If one wets the
glass into the wet fillet, the time required to add
glass is minimal.

______________________________________________________________________
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I experimented with the limestone, too. I found that if you mix in
some wheat flour it will hold it's shape better, but don't use so
much that it get "doughy". I found it suprisingly easy to sand, too.
One of the fillets without cloth that I made on the seats of my
Gypsy have failed.

Roger S

--- In bolger@y..., "sconradpt" <sconrad@t...> wrote:
> I experimented on scraps with pulverized limestone (as recommended
by
> Carnell)as an epoxy filler tonight for a 90 degree fillet. Got a
good
> peanut butter consistancy and brown color, but it sagged too much.
I
> guess I'll add some cabosil. I'll check the strength in a day or
two.
> It is too cold here (50 - 60) for the epoxy to cure very fast. Do
90
> degree fillets have to be covered with cloth? or is the epoxy
alone
> strong enough?
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > FBBB --
> >
> > I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake
where
> > she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed
some
> > help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
> put.
> >
> > Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka
epoxy
> > mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
> I'm
> > pretty happy with that combo for working time.
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
> >
> > C.E.P.
> > 415 W.46th Street
> > New York, New York 10036
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > (212) 247-0296

I experimented on scraps with pulverized limestone (as recommended by
Carnell)as an epoxy filler tonight for a 90 degree fillet. Got a good
peanut butter consistancy and brown color, but it sagged too much. I
guess I'll add some cabosil. I'll check the strength in a day or two.
It is too cold here (50 - 60) for the epoxy to cure very fast. Do 90
degree fillets have to be covered with cloth? or is the epoxy alone
strong enough?

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

This should pretty much always be the objective.
There are any number of reasons why one should get
organized to go as many possible tasks all at once, to
get the most that can be done. Stuff invariably lays
down best, when it is layed wet, and if a void is
obvious just spoon some more compound in place and tap
down the glass. When going over a dried section, I
would probably freshen it with a little more brushed
on compound to ensure smooth results.

--- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
I always have, let it set up just a little so that the
new epoxy in the 
tape doesn't loosen up the fillet any. 
 
HJ 
 
rnlocnil wrote:

> 
> Is there a reason you don't lay the tape over the

filler before it

> hardens? If you don't have the filler perfectly

shaped, it's going to

> be a big pain to fix it after it hardens. If it's

still soft, not a 

______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca

I always have, let it set up just a little so that the new epoxy in the
tape doesn't loosen up the fillet any.

HJ

rnlocnil wrote:

>
> Is there a reason you don't lay the tape over the filler before it
> hardens? If you don't have the filler perfectly shaped, it's going to
> be a big pain to fix it after it hardens. If it's still soft, not a
> problem.
> --- In bolger@y..., "prthober" <prthober@p...> wrote:
> > I just this morning filled the joints between the hull panels in
> > anticipation of taping the seams on my Gypsy. I am using MAS Flag
> > resin for all the structural glueing and I used their suggested
> > recipe which is 1 part epoxy, 2-3 parts wood flour and 1 part Cab-O-
> > Sil - I adjusted the mix to get peanut butter consistency. It was
> > easy to apply, no glue ran out, and there was no sag.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > > FBBB --
> > >
> > > I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake
> where
> > > she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> > > help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
> > put.
> > >
> > > Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka
> epoxy
> > > mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
> > I'm
> > > pretty happy with that combo for working time.
> > >
> > > YIBB,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > C.E.P.
> > > 415 W.46th Street
> > > New York, New York 10036
> > >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > > (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I've used a variation of Vince's technique, pre-wetting the tape with a
small roller, but without using the plastic sheet. I found that I got
better fillets this way because the wetting out was easier, and there was
less opportunity to screw up the fillet by brushing. As an added benefit,
if you have 2 people working, it's a very quick method because one can wet
out tape while the other lays it on the fillet and smooths it out.

On a related note, let me get up on my soapbox for a moment. I just did the
inside seams on a tiny dinghy, and used fibreglass tape for convenience.
And I'm sorry I did. The selvedge (finished edges on the tape) prevent the
tape from lying flat all the way along. So I've done an okay job, but not a
real good one. I knew that I would get better results by cutting my own
tapes from a piece of cloth (at an angle so the edges don't fray so much)
but I was too lazy to do it for such a small job. So... if you want neatly
taped seams, CUT YOUR OWN TAPES! Okay, I'm finished now. Thanks.

Jamie Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Leinweber [mailto:chuck@...]
Sent: April 16, 2002 10:34 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Fillet recipe?

Interesting technique, Vince. I have always gently pressed the tape onto
the tacky fillet, then brushed the resin into the weave. Seems easier
somehow.

Chuck
I wet out the tape using a roller on a board covered with a strip of 4
mil plastic sheet just a little wider than the tape. This makes it less
messy to carry the WET tape and plastic to the boat and press it onto
the WET fillet. Then I gently peel off the plastic. I use the same strip
of plastic over and over.

I have found a Linser (sp?) roller cover, sold at Home Depo, that has
1/8" nylon bristles rather than the usual foam or fuzzy material most
paint rollers use. They are sold specifically for use with epoxies and
glues. I cut them in half on the band saw for a 4" roller. I also cut
them up and split them to fit into a slot in a handle made of scrap wood
for use as brushes. I often clean them and reuse them. The method for
cleaning them takes longer to describe than to actually do, so I won't
unless someone really wants to try it.

Vince Chew

Interesting technique, Vince. I have always gently pressed the tape onto the tacky fillet, then brushed the resin into the weave. Seems easier somehow.

Chuck
I wet out the tape using a roller on a board covered with a strip of 4
mil plastic sheet just a little wider than the tape. This makes it less
messy to carry the WET tape and plastic to the boat and press it onto
the WET fillet. Then I gently peel off the plastic. I use the same strip
of plastic over and over.

I have found a Linser (sp?) roller cover, sold at Home Depo, that has
1/8" nylon bristles rather than the usual foam or fuzzy material most
paint rollers use. They are sold specifically for use with epoxies and
glues. I cut them in half on the band saw for a 4" roller. I also cut
them up and split them to fit into a slot in a handle made of scrap wood
for use as brushes. I often clean them and reuse them. The method for
cleaning them takes longer to describe than to actually do, so I won't
unless someone really wants to try it.

Vince Chew

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wet out the tape using a roller on a board covered with a strip of 4
mil plastic sheet just a little wider than the tape. This makes it less
messy to carry the WET tape and plastic to the boat and press it onto
the WET fillet. Then I gently peel off the plastic. I use the same strip
of plastic over and over.

I have found a Linser (sp?) roller cover, sold at Home Depo, that has
1/8" nylon bristles rather than the usual foam or fuzzy material most
paint rollers use. They are sold specifically for use with epoxies and
glues. I cut them in half on the band saw for a 4" roller. I also cut
them up and split them to fit into a slot in a handle made of scrap wood
for use as brushes. I often clean them and reuse them. The method for
cleaning them takes longer to describe than to actually do, so I won't
unless someone really wants to try it.

Vince Chew

I used wire ties to pull the panels closer together in some places
and they are in the way of taping the seams. I just filled the seams
of the hull panels from the outside - no filleting. When glue and
epoxy putty in the seams cures I will be able to cut off the ties,
clean up the rough spots and tape the seams.

Paul

--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> Is there a reason you don't lay the tape over the filler before it
> hardens? If you don't have the filler perfectly shaped, it's going
to
> be a big pain to fix it after it hardens. If it's still soft, not a
> problem.
> --- In bolger@y..., "prthober" <prthober@p...> wrote:
> > I just this morning filled the joints between the hull panels in
> > anticipation of taping the seams on my Gypsy. I am using MAS Flag
> > resin for all the structural glueing and I used their suggested
> > recipe which is 1 part epoxy, 2-3 parts wood flour and 1 part Cab-
O-
> > Sil - I adjusted the mix to get peanut butter consistency. It was
> > easy to apply, no glue ran out, and there was no sag.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > > FBBB --
> > >
> > > I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake
> where
> > > she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed
some
> > > help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not
staying
> > put.
> > >
> > > Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka
> epoxy
> > > mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow
hardener.
> > I'm
> > > pretty happy with that combo for working time.
> > >
> > > YIBB,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > C.E.P.
> > > 415 W.46th Street
> > > New York, New York 10036
> > >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > > (212) 247-0296

Is there a reason you don't lay the tape over the filler before it
hardens? If you don't have the filler perfectly shaped, it's going to
be a big pain to fix it after it hardens. If it's still soft, not a
problem.

--- In bolger@y..., "prthober" <prthober@p...> wrote:
> I just this morning filled the joints between the hull panels in
> anticipation of taping the seams on my Gypsy. I am using MAS Flag
> resin for all the structural glueing and I used their suggested
> recipe which is 1 part epoxy, 2-3 parts wood flour and 1 part Cab-O-
> Sil - I adjusted the mix to get peanut butter consistency. It was
> easy to apply, no glue ran out, and there was no sag.
>
> Paul
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > FBBB --
> >
> > I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake
where
> > she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> > help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
> put.
> >
> > Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka
epoxy
> > mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
> I'm
> > pretty happy with that combo for working time.
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
> >
> > C.E.P.
> > 415 W.46th Street
> > New York, New York 10036
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > (212) 247-0296

I just this morning filled the joints between the hull panels in
anticipation of taping the seams on my Gypsy. I am using MAS Flag
resin for all the structural glueing and I used their suggested
recipe which is 1 part epoxy, 2-3 parts wood flour and 1 part Cab-O-
Sil - I adjusted the mix to get peanut butter consistency. It was
easy to apply, no glue ran out, and there was no sag.

Paul

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

I would coat with a good layer of epoxy to seal the surface after sanding etc. Clyde

lulalake_1999 wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The boat I'm restoring is a 60's vintage American Fiberglass 16. It
> sat outside for years till I bought it for a couple of hundred bucks.
> It's fairly sound but needs cosmetics.
>
> When you rub up against it you get fiberglass in your arm. How can I
> get rid of this? Do I light sand and paint? Do I fine steel wool and
> gel-coat?
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> LL
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

As long as you are having fun, should turn out great.

--- lulalake_1999 <lulalake_1999@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Thanks for the reply Proac, 
 
There are a few hairline cracks in deeply radiused
areas and some 
stress points that I've already filled with
penetrating epoxy or 
some thickened epoxy in some places. None are
structural. 
Thanks for the tip about the linear poly paint. 
 
I've owned a couple of boats and none have been this
old or 
so "cosmetically challenged" (or so small),
but it's great fun. 
I'll send some pics as soon as it gets near
completion. 
 
LL 
 
 
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell
<proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:

> You mean you get dusty powder, not actual

glass? You

> can sand the damaged coating away, and assuming

there

> aren't cracks and things that are structural, you

can

> recoat with a suite of products leading up to a

linear

> polyurethane. Consult manufacturer's

recomended

> proceedures, try US Paint, the awgrip folks 
> 
> 
> --- lulalake_1999 <lulalake_1999@y...>

wrote:

> 
> <HR> 
> <html><body> 
> 
> 
> <tt> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> The boat I'm restoring is a 60's vintage

American

> Fiberglass 16. It 
> sat outside for years till I bought it for a

couple of

> hundred bucks. 
> It's fairly sound but needs cosmetics.

> 
> When you rub up against it you get fiberglass in

your

> arm.  How can I 
> get rid of this? Do I light sand and paint? Do I

fine

> steel wool and 
> gel-coat? 
> 
> Thanks for the help 
> 
> LL 
> 
> 
> 
> </tt> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
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> Bolger rules!!! 
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or

flogging

> dead horses 
> - pls take "personals"

off-list, stay on

> topic, and punctuate 
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your

posts,

> snip all you like 
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box

1209,

> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)

282-1349

> - Unsubscribe:  
> bolger-unsubscribe@y...</tt> 
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<tt>
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______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Thanks for the reply Proac,

There are a few hairline cracks in deeply radiused areas and some
stress points that I've already filled with penetrating epoxy or
some thickened epoxy in some places. None are structural.
Thanks for the tip about the linear poly paint.

I've owned a couple of boats and none have been this old or
so "cosmetically challenged" (or so small), but it's great fun.
I'll send some pics as soon as it gets near completion.

LL

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> You mean you get dusty powder, not actual glass? You
> can sand the damaged coating away, and assuming there
> aren't cracks and things that are structural, you can
> recoat with a suite of products leading up to a linear
> polyurethane. Consult manufacturer's recomended
> proceedures, try US Paint, the awgrip folks
>
>
> --- lulalake_1999 <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
>
> <HR>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> The boat I'm restoring is a 60's vintage American
> Fiberglass 16. It 
> sat outside for years till I bought it for a couple of
> hundred bucks. 
> It's fairly sound but needs cosmetics. 
> 
> When you rub up against it you get fiberglass in your
> arm. How can I 
> get rid of this? Do I light sand and paint? Do I fine
> steel wool and 
> gel-coat? 
> 
> Thanks for the help 
> 
> LL 
> 
> 
> 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
> 
>
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> topic, and punctuate 
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
> snip all you like 
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> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
> - Unsubscribe:
> bolger-unsubscribe@y...</tt>
> 
>
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You mean you get dusty powder, not actual glass? You
can sand the damaged coating away, and assuming there
aren't cracks and things that are structural, you can
recoat with a suite of products leading up to a linear
polyurethane. Consult manufacturer's recomended
proceedures, try US Paint, the awgrip folks

--- lulalake_1999 <lulalake_1999@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
 
Hi, 
 
The boat I'm restoring is a 60's vintage American
Fiberglass 16. It 
sat outside for years till I bought it for a couple of
hundred bucks. 
It's fairly sound but needs cosmetics. 
 
When you rub up against it you get fiberglass in your
arm. How can I 
get rid of this? Do I light sand and paint? Do I fine
steel wool and 
gel-coat? 
 
Thanks for the help 
 
LL 
 
 
 
</tt>

 



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dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
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______________________________________________________________________
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Hi,

The boat I'm restoring is a 60's vintage American Fiberglass 16. It
sat outside for years till I bought it for a couple of hundred bucks.
It's fairly sound but needs cosmetics.

When you rub up against it you get fiberglass in your arm. How can I
get rid of this? Do I light sand and paint? Do I fine steel wool and
gel-coat?

Thanks for the help

LL

I can tell you from experience" have a gal of vinagar handy as I have been able to wash overhead drips out of my hair with it". The excitement of boat
building...Clyde

thomas dalzell wrote:

> I have done tons of overhead fillets, and they are no
> problem if you use a filleting mix as described. It
> has to be a mix that epoxy won't run out of, and
> obviously one that isn't unecesarily heavy, these 3-1
> combos work nicely, and sometimes you can use less
> silica, depending on a lot of factors.
>
> The fibers you are refering to are designed to add
> tensile strength to the mix. This might be handy in
> certain situations, though your tensile strength may
> be limited to the peel strength of your ply, unless
> you are bonding over glass or something. But in
> general a fillet is a compresion joint, and does not
> require these fibers. They don't make for efficient
> use of epoxy since generaly they are either absorbent
> (cotton) or glass which certainly doesn't add much
> volume. When I need that kind of strenght, I just
> glass over the fillet. The milled glass at the bottom
> of the center of the joint isn't doing anything, and
> the stuff on the surface won't be as strong as clth,
> since the fibers are discontinuous. Just slap the
> cloth over the fillet, and hit it with some clear.
> For heavy load bulkheadas you need some serious glass
> though. My tests show that 20 oz biax is as stiff in
> place as 1/4" ply molded in place. That's the sort of
> thing I would use for bulkheads that support thr
> motor, or beams on a tri. It isn't how strong this
> stuff is, it is the area it spreads lods over that is
> impressive.
>
> To take one example, Kurt Hughes got the USCG to
> accept 3-1 Q-cell, colloidal fillets for charter class
> trimarans on bulkheads that are non major load
> bearing, like non-crossbeam ones. These are light,
> and efficiently built structures, and no tensile
> fibers are required.
>
> --- "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...> wrote:
>
> <HR>
> <html><body>
>
> <tt>
> I've used a lot of something called microfibres -- it
> looks like a fluffy 
> white powder -- mixed with coloidal silica, which is
> supposed to be 
> non-sagging on its own. The combination gave me
> a nice smooth mixture, easy 
> to use and one that stayed in place on vertical
> fillets -- I made it fairly 
> thick, while I was at it. 
> 
> I never done an overhead fillet, though. How
> about turning the LSME over to 
> make the job easier? 
> 
> Jamie Orr 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David Ryan
> [mailto:david@...] 
> Sent: April 10, 2002 7:37 PM 
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: [bolger] Fillet recipe? 
> 
> 
> FBBB -- 
> 
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into
> the lake where 
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead
> needed some 
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was
> not staying put. 
> 
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm
> using Raka epoxy 
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow
> hardener. I'm 
> pretty happy with that combo for working time. 
> 
> YIBB, 
> 
> David 
> 
> C.E.P. 
> 415 W.46th Street 
> New York, New York 10036 
> <a
> href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
> (212) 247-0296 
> 
> 
> Bolger rules!!! 
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
> dead horses 
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
> topic, and punctuate 
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
> snip all you like 
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
> - Unsubscribe:
> bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a
> href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
> 
> 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
> 
>
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> 
>
> 
> <tt>
> Bolger rules!!! 
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
> dead horses 
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
> topic, and punctuate 
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
> snip all you like 
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
> - Unsubscribe:
> bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
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>
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> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
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> of Service</a>.</tt>
> 
>
> </body></html>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

emm, you are taping immediatly after putting on the fillet? This will
eliminate a step, and help prevent sagging.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

I have done tons of overhead fillets, and they are no
problem if you use a filleting mix as described. It
has to be a mix that epoxy won't run out of, and
obviously one that isn't unecesarily heavy, these 3-1
combos work nicely, and sometimes you can use less
silica, depending on a lot of factors.

The fibers you are refering to are designed to add
tensile strength to the mix. This might be handy in
certain situations, though your tensile strength may
be limited to the peel strength of your ply, unless
you are bonding over glass or something. But in
general a fillet is a compresion joint, and does not
require these fibers. They don't make for efficient
use of epoxy since generaly they are either absorbent
(cotton) or glass which certainly doesn't add much
volume. When I need that kind of strenght, I just
glass over the fillet. The milled glass at the bottom
of the center of the joint isn't doing anything, and
the stuff on the surface won't be as strong as clth,
since the fibers are discontinuous. Just slap the
cloth over the fillet, and hit it with some clear.
For heavy load bulkheadas you need some serious glass
though. My tests show that 20 oz biax is as stiff in
place as 1/4" ply molded in place. That's the sort of
thing I would use for bulkheads that support thr
motor, or beams on a tri. It isn't how strong this
stuff is, it is the area it spreads lods over that is
impressive.

To take one example, Kurt Hughes got the USCG to
accept 3-1 Q-cell, colloidal fillets for charter class
trimarans on bulkheads that are non major load
bearing, like non-crossbeam ones. These are light,
and efficiently built structures, and no tensile
fibers are required.

--- "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
I've used a lot of something called microfibres -- it
looks like a fluffy 
white powder -- mixed with coloidal silica, which is
supposed to be 
non-sagging on its own. The combination gave me
a nice smooth mixture, easy 
to use and one that stayed in place on vertical
fillets -- I made it fairly 
thick, while I was at it. 
 
I never done an overhead fillet, though. How
about turning the LSME over to 
make the job easier? 
 
Jamie Orr 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: David Ryan
[mailto:david@...] 
Sent: April 10, 2002 7:37 PM 
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [bolger] Fillet recipe? 
 
 
FBBB -- 
 
I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into
the lake where 
she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead
needed some 
help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was
not staying put. 
 
Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm
using Raka epoxy 
mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow
hardener. I'm 
pretty happy with that combo for working time. 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
415 W.46th Street 
New York, New York 10036 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
 
 
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
 
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
 
 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
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of Service</a>.</tt>


</body></html>

______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

I've used a lot of something called microfibres -- it looks like a fluffy
white powder -- mixed with coloidal silica, which is supposed to be
non-sagging on its own. The combination gave me a nice smooth mixture, easy
to use and one that stayed in place on vertical fillets -- I made it fairly
thick, while I was at it.

I never done an overhead fillet, though. How about turning the LSME over to
make the job easier?

Jamie Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
Sent: April 10, 2002 7:37 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Fillet recipe?

FBBB --

I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying put.

Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener. I'm
pretty happy with that combo for working time.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Basicaly I strive for three things with a filleting
compound, adhesion, compresion, low weight/high yield.

Epoxy itself is very sticky, and deals very well with
compresion, so you can mix almost anything into it and
get good results, as long as the volume doesn't change
that much. To change the volume, either for weight or
economy, you have to use somthing that does not absorb
much epoxy, and has good compresion structure. Enter
the microbaloons. I use 3 parts Q-cell, and one part
collodial. Any of the west balloons are nice too, but
expensive, so I just use them if a colour match is
needed. Seems you can tripple or more the volume of
the epoxy with this mix. One tried to keep the
colloidal to a minimum, since it is just there to stop
the epoxy running out, and makes building volume
difficult. Microlight isn't an efficient filleting
additive. Both these components Q and C come in 10 #
bags.
--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
FBBB -- 
 
I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into
the lake where 
she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead
needed some 
help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was
not staying put. 
 
Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm
using Raka epoxy 
mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow
hardener. I'm 
pretty happy with that combo for working time. 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
415 W.46th Street 
New York, New York 10036 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
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of Service</a>.</tt>


</body></html>

______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

Cool weather gives it time to run before setting but more silika should help. Clyde

David Ryan wrote:

> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener. I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

My favorite is add wood flour to quickly bulk up the resin/hardener
mix to heavier than mayonnaise but not thick as peanut butter
consistency then add the flumed silica to keep it from sagging. Or if
no sanding will be done to the fillet, just flumed silica.

Rick

> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener. I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>

I like fumed silica about 1:3 or 1:4 with wood flour, added to the
epoxy until it is as thick as I like. Better than wood flour alone,
easier to sand than silica alone, I think. I would guess this is the
same thing as Cabosil or colloidal silica. Wear a dust mask for the
silica.

--- In bolger@y..., "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> I use equal parts colloidal silica and Microlight fairing compound.
The
> colloidal silica is a thixiotropic agent that prevents sagging, the
> Microlight make it easier to sand.
>
> Paul W. Esterle
> Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
> 423.989.3159
> S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
> Bristol, Tenn. USA
>http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
>http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Ryan" <david@c...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:36 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Fillet recipe?
>
>
> > FBBB --
> >
> > I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake
where
> > she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> > help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
put.
> >
> > Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka
epoxy
> > mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
I'm
> > pretty happy with that combo for working time.
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
> >
> > C.E.P.
> > 415 W.46th Street
> > New York, New York 10036
> >http://www.crumblingempire.com
> > (212) 247-0296
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

I use equal parts colloidal silica and Microlight fairing compound. The
colloidal silica is a thixiotropic agent that prevents sagging, the
Microlight make it easier to sand.

Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: [bolger] Fillet recipe?

> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener. I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Keep adding wood flour until you get the consistancy of thick
mayonase, or thin peanut butter. I.E. A 1 cubic inch glob on your
mixing stick should not move noticably in three or four seconds when
you have the mix right. This is about 1.5 wood flour to epoxy.

You want it just after it stops moving on the stick when it's held up
for inspection. If the surface is irregular, and it's hard to mix,
it's to dry.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
> she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
> help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying
put.
>
> Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
> mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener.
I'm
> pretty happy with that combo for working time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

FBBB --

I'm trying to get the LSME off my lawn and back into the lake where
she belongs. The joints between the decks and bulkhead needed some
help so I was trying to fill/fillet, but my goop was not staying put.

Anyone got a fillet recipe they're happy with? I'm using Raka epoxy
mixed 4 parts resin, 1 part fast hardener, 1 part slow hardener. I'm
pretty happy with that combo for working time.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296