Re: [bolger] Epoxy&Glass over paint?

I don't have experience with it, and I don't ever
intend to get it either. There are a lot of things
that one gets away with now and again, but I just
don't think that that is the kind of ground I would
want for my epoxy. There is a fair expense to epoxy
and glass, and getting the best surface prep is the
only way to get the best results. I should say I have
had drips of epoxy used for hardware bonding and that
kind of thing attach themselves limpit like to my
awgrip paint job. They seem sturdy enough, but the
awlgrip is over glass and epoxy freshly bonded to
clean wood.

--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
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<tt>
FBBB -- 
 
I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated
with with 
slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch
paint. It 
checked after about a month in the sun. Now I'm going
back to do what 
I should have done before -- put down a layer of glass
and epoxy. 
 
I went after the thing with a grinder and a 36 grit
disk. That did a 
good job of taking of the loose paint, epoxy and wood,
as well as 
"texturizing" the whole surface in general.
But it will be a lot more 
work to remove the paint all together. I'd hate to do
it if not 
necessary. 
 
Have any of you had experiences, good or bad, with
applying 
epoxy&glass over well adhered paint? 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
C.E.P. 
415 W.46th Street 
New York, New York 10036 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 
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I agree with david that cloth is a whole lot better at
this. The tensile strength, such as it is, assumes
close proximity of of the fibers, and orientation in a
favourable direction. The milled fibers are usualy
prety short.
--- brucehallman <brucehallman@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...>
wrote:

> I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I

coated with with

> slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with

porch paint. It

> checked after about a month in the sun.

Does anybody know if adding glass microfibers to the
epoxy might have 
avoided the checking problem David encountered
here? And, if so, how 
much microfiber power should be added to the
mix. In theory, it 
seems like micro fibers could resist cracking, because
they give 
epoxy tensile strength. 
 
</tt>

 
<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
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______________________________________________________________________
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>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
>> slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
>> checked after about a month in the sun.
>
>Does anybody know if adding glass microfibers to the epoxy might have
>avoided the checking problem David encountered here? And, if so, how
>much microfiber power should be added to the mix. In theory, it
>seems like micro fibers could resist cracking, because they give
>epoxy tensile strength.

Yes, I know the answer. I tried it. And the answer is put a little
cloth in the mix and your finish will be bullet proof. A little micro
fiber yields inconsistent (as in not *everything* checked) results.

My boats live outside on the sun and rain day in and day out. ACX+3
oz glass+epoxy+porch paint= no maintenance.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

The doug fir strips on the mast for AF2 checked, spintered, whatever.
Do to your different density theory, probably. That was certainly not
plywood.

I'm glassing ANY exposed wood in rot prone areas, on the new boat.

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> My understanding is that some woods like Pine and Fir when made
into plywood check because there are different rates of expansion
between the wood density. These woods have a wide fluctuation of
density as they are rotary cut from the log. Areas of fast or slow
growth, knots, etc. Each density will shrink and expand at different
rates, hence checking.
>
> Not all softwoods are prone to this like Luaun, Meranti, Okume,
etc. and most hardwood panels are immune to it because the entire
surface will expand and contract at the same rate. Of course if the
surface ply is only decorative and the plys underneath are made of
pine or fir, it'll still check. It's the quality as much as the
species.
>
> For what it's worth, I'm building the Wyo of all 1/2" Meranti. I
won't epoxy anything on the interior. All exterior will be coated
with epoxy, but only the hull from the rub rail down will be glassed
and of course that huge cockpit area will need to be glassed too.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Is it only plywood that checks due to the rotary peeling
technique used in
> making it, or will regular wood check if epoxy coated, but not
glassed?
> (regular wood in my case being decking-quality meranti)...
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My understanding is that some woods like Pine and Fir when made into plywood check because there are different rates of expansion between the wood density. These woods have a wide fluctuation of density as they are rotary cut from the log. Areas of fast or slow growth, knots, etc. Each density will shrink and expand at different rates, hence checking.

Not all softwoods are prone to this like Luaun, Meranti, Okume, etc. and most hardwood panels are immune to it because the entire surface will expand and contract at the same rate. Of course if the surface ply is only decorative and the plys underneath are made of pine or fir, it'll still check. It's the quality as much as the species.

For what it's worth, I'm building the Wyo of all 1/2" Meranti. I won't epoxy anything on the interior. All exterior will be coated with epoxy, but only the hull from the rub rail down will be glassed and of course that huge cockpit area will need to be glassed too.

Jeff

Is it only plywood that checks due to the rotary peeling technique used in
making it, or will regular wood check if epoxy coated, but not glassed?
(regular wood in my case being decking-quality meranti)...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is it only plywood that checks due to the rotary peeling technique used in
making it, or will regular wood check if epoxy coated, but not glassed?
(regular wood in my case being decking-quality meranti)...

Paul L.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: brucehallman [mailto:brucehallman@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:32 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Epoxy&Glass over paint?
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> > I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
> > slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
> > checked after about a month in the sun.
>
> Does anybody know if adding glass microfibers to the epoxy might have
> avoided the checking problem David encountered here? And, if so, how
> much microfiber power should be added to the mix. In theory, it
> seems like micro fibers could resist cracking, because they give
> epoxy tensile strength.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:

> I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
> slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
> checked after about a month in the sun.

Does anybody know if adding glass microfibers to the epoxy might have
avoided the checking problem David encountered here? And, if so, how
much microfiber power should be added to the mix. In theory, it
seems like micro fibers could resist cracking, because they give
epoxy tensile strength.

David,
Whenever I've had to put epoxy and glass down, for example to replace
tape that had lifted along a seam, I've found that I had to go right
back to the wood to get a good epoxy/wood/glass bond. Epoxying to a
painted surface, depending on the paint's lack of chemical reaction to
the chemicals in the epoxy, seems to work ok, but the epoxy is then
bonded to a weak surface.
Taking the paint off with a grinder may not get off every little sliver
of paint, but it gets most of it, and the ripped and scoured wood fibers
will make a nice bond with the epoxy and glass.
My 2 cents,
Jim

David Ryan wrote:

> FBBB --
>
> I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
> slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
> checked after about a month in the sun. Now I'm going back to do what
> I should have done before -- put down a layer of glass and epoxy.
>
> I went after the thing with a grinder and a 36 grit disk. That did a
> good job of taking of the loose paint, epoxy and wood, as well as
> "texturizing" the whole surface in general. But it will be a lot more
> work to remove the paint all together. I'd hate to do it if not
> necessary.
>
> Have any of you had experiences, good or bad, with applying
> epoxy&glass over well adhered paint?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Take a wire brush wheel thingy. Put it on a drill. If it won't come
up easily that way, the bond is good enough to leave it there.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
> slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
> checked after about a month in the sun. Now I'm going back to do
what
> I should have done before -- put down a layer of glass and epoxy.
>
> I went after the thing with a grinder and a 36 grit disk. That did
a
> good job of taking of the loose paint, epoxy and wood, as well as
> "texturizing" the whole surface in general. But it will be a lot
more
> work to remove the paint all together. I'd hate to do it if not
> necessary.
>
> Have any of you had experiences, good or bad, with applying
> epoxy&glass over well adhered paint?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

FBBB --

I did not glass the deck of my Light Scooner. I coated with with
slightly thickened epoxy and covered that with porch paint. It
checked after about a month in the sun. Now I'm going back to do what
I should have done before -- put down a layer of glass and epoxy.

I went after the thing with a grinder and a 36 grit disk. That did a
good job of taking of the loose paint, epoxy and wood, as well as
"texturizing" the whole surface in general. But it will be a lot more
work to remove the paint all together. I'd hate to do it if not
necessary.

Have any of you had experiences, good or bad, with applying
epoxy&glass over well adhered paint?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296