Re: "Surf" for seven miles of open water?
But not nearly as much fun!
Nels
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "rdchamberland" <cha62759@t...> wrote:
> If I was contemplating sailing or rowing to Horn Island from the
> Mississippi shore this board is the last place that I would look to
> for advice on the suitiblility of watercraft. There is no substitute
> for local knowledge. And there may be less rant.
> Bob Chamberland
>
If I was contemplating sailing or rowing to Horn Island from the
Mississippi shore this board is the last place that I would look to
for advice on the suitiblility of watercraft. There is no substitute
for local knowledge. And there may be less rant.
Bob Chamberland
Mississippi shore this board is the last place that I would look to
for advice on the suitiblility of watercraft. There is no substitute
for local knowledge. And there may be less rant.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., "sterlingjb" <sterlingjb@y...> wrote:
> I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open water
> to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and am
> not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable
> without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
> Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping reasonable?
> Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need to know?
> Thanks for any help, Richard
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, recree8 wrote:
most of the boat, with a pretty small & shallow cockpit. It's certainly a
seaworthy boat (or rather, it was).
> retired Captain John C. Voss, who in May 1901 set sail from VancouverIt's true. This boat is about 40 feet long, and has a cabin that covered
> Island in a Native dugout canoe fitted with sails on a voyage around
> the world covering some 40,000 miles
most of the boat, with a pretty small & shallow cockpit. It's certainly a
seaworthy boat (or rather, it was).
> His boat "Tilikum" is still on display at the Nautical Museum inI saw it this time, last year, with a fresh coat of paint on it.
> Victoria British Columbia as far as I know.
A lot of people at the time said Slocum's boat twern't much better.
There's a very nice write up with pix & drawings galore of Tilicum in WB # 121. The boat's
now in the Maritime Museum of BC.
If you can get a hold of Don Holm's 'The Circumnavigators,' he tells the story of Kenny
Luxton and Capt. Voss with great style and humor. A less likely pair to go cruising
together is hard to imagine.
One thing Capt. Voss liked to do that most people wouldn't think of was to hang some
ballast part way up the mast. "Steadied the boat," he said.
Mark
recree8 wrote:
There's a very nice write up with pix & drawings galore of Tilicum in WB # 121. The boat's
now in the Maritime Museum of BC.
If you can get a hold of Don Holm's 'The Circumnavigators,' he tells the story of Kenny
Luxton and Capt. Voss with great style and humor. A less likely pair to go cruising
together is hard to imagine.
One thing Capt. Voss liked to do that most people wouldn't think of was to hang some
ballast part way up the mast. "Steadied the boat," he said.
Mark
recree8 wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would just like to respond on my own comments that were in factual
> error as I got my old sea captains confused. In fact I was thinking
> of retired Captain John C. Voss, who in May 1901 set sail from
> Vancouver Island in a Native dugout canoe fitted with sails on a
> voyage around the world covering some 40,000 miles - three years
> after Joshua Slocum. His adventures have recently been re-published
> in a book entitled "40,000 Miles in a Canoe" not quite as colorful as
> his orignal title "The Venturesome Voyages Of Captain Voss." His
> boat "Tilikum" is still on display at the Nautical Museum in Victoria
> British Columbia as far as I know.
>
> His book has long been considered the primer on small boat
> seamanship, so it is worth reading the reprint, in which he also
> describes surviving a typhoon in a 19 foot sailboat.
>
> My apologies to the memory of Joshua Slocum, who originally came from
> Nova Scotia on the other seacoast.
>
> I also enjoyed the link to the Block Island area. It certainly does
> appear to be a reasonably sheltered stretch of water.
>
>http://www.mcgraw-hill.com
>
> and in the search enter "voss" to see the book reviewed.
>
> Nels
>
> > --- Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, recree8 wrote:
> > > > Also a lot of us have wives and children that we
> > > may feel a
> > > > responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh
> > > really cared about.
> > > > In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious
> > > circumstances. So who
> > > > knows he might have died by his fireplace if he
> > > never thought to clean
> > > > the chimney once in awhile?
> > > > I guess some are stupid through choice and others
> > > by accident;-))
> > >
> > > And, keep in mind, that Old Josh himself was lost at
> > > sea.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> >http://games.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--- In bolger@y..., "recree8" <arvent@h...> wrote:
http://shop.mcgraw-hill.com/cgi-bin/pbg/searchresult.html?q=voss
...Nels
> Hi All,Here is the correct lnk to the Captain Voss book.
http://shop.mcgraw-hill.com/cgi-bin/pbg/searchresult.html?q=voss
...Nels
>
>I also enjoyed the link to the Block Island area. It certainly doesAs a result of converging wind and tides, we get some amazing seas
>appear to be a reasonably sheltered stretch of water.
here in Montauk. For example, my friend was out in the BIS rips
yesterday working mackerel in his Mako 21 and side the the seas were
6 feet and very short. Nothing special about any particular element,
but they came together to make a nasty ride home.
Some of the fishboat captains have told me on a NorWester the seas
actually get worse as you get closer shore on account of tides.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Hi All,
I would just like to respond on my own comments that were in factual
error as I got my old sea captains confused. In fact I was thinking
of retired Captain John C. Voss, who in May 1901 set sail from
Vancouver Island in a Native dugout canoe fitted with sails on a
voyage around the world covering some 40,000 miles - three years
after Joshua Slocum. His adventures have recently been re-published
in a book entitled "40,000 Miles in a Canoe" not quite as colorful as
his orignal title "The Venturesome Voyages Of Captain Voss." His
boat "Tilikum" is still on display at the Nautical Museum in Victoria
British Columbia as far as I know.
His book has long been considered the primer on small boat
seamanship, so it is worth reading the reprint, in which he also
describes surviving a typhoon in a 19 foot sailboat.
My apologies to the memory of Joshua Slocum, who originally came from
Nova Scotia on the other seacoast.
I also enjoyed the link to the Block Island area. It certainly does
appear to be a reasonably sheltered stretch of water.
http://www.mcgraw-hill.com
and in the search enter "voss" to see the book reviewed.
Nels
I would just like to respond on my own comments that were in factual
error as I got my old sea captains confused. In fact I was thinking
of retired Captain John C. Voss, who in May 1901 set sail from
Vancouver Island in a Native dugout canoe fitted with sails on a
voyage around the world covering some 40,000 miles - three years
after Joshua Slocum. His adventures have recently been re-published
in a book entitled "40,000 Miles in a Canoe" not quite as colorful as
his orignal title "The Venturesome Voyages Of Captain Voss." His
boat "Tilikum" is still on display at the Nautical Museum in Victoria
British Columbia as far as I know.
His book has long been considered the primer on small boat
seamanship, so it is worth reading the reprint, in which he also
describes surviving a typhoon in a 19 foot sailboat.
My apologies to the memory of Joshua Slocum, who originally came from
Nova Scotia on the other seacoast.
I also enjoyed the link to the Block Island area. It certainly does
appear to be a reasonably sheltered stretch of water.
http://www.mcgraw-hill.com
and in the search enter "voss" to see the book reviewed.
Nels
> --- Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, recree8 wrote:
> > > Also a lot of us have wives and children that we
> > may feel a
> > > responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh
> > really cared about.
> > > In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious
> > circumstances. So who
> > > knows he might have died by his fireplace if he
> > never thought to clean
> > > the chimney once in awhile?
> > > I guess some are stupid through choice and others
> > by accident;-))
> >
> > And, keep in mind, that Old Josh himself was lost at
> > sea.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>http://games.yahoo.com/
This has become a kind of contentious thread of
messages. It is not a subject I would be disposed to
comment on, since I can think of nothing more suited
to individual decision (or less suited to group
consensus) than whether to sail across Mississippi
Sound in a Surf. I can't help noting, however, that
this discussion takes place in the context of the
death of one of my childhood heros, Thor Heyerdahl.
Whatever his stature as an anthropologist, Heyerdahl
undertook some remarkable adventures, most famously
(but by no means limited to) the crossing of the
eastern pacific from South America to the Marquesas on
a nine-log balsa raft, in 1948, long before EPIRBS,
GPS or reverse osmosis systems. You know what I find
most remarkable about Heyerdahl? When he made up his
mind to try to cross the Pacific on a craft that no
one alive had seen as anything but illustrations in
old manuscripts, to test a theory of migration that no
expert on the subject supported, he telegraphed three
aquantances with whom he had fought the Germans in
WWII, inviting them to go. All three said yes.
Thor Heyerdahl, among many other things a
boat-builder, died last week in Norway, in bed, age
87.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
messages. It is not a subject I would be disposed to
comment on, since I can think of nothing more suited
to individual decision (or less suited to group
consensus) than whether to sail across Mississippi
Sound in a Surf. I can't help noting, however, that
this discussion takes place in the context of the
death of one of my childhood heros, Thor Heyerdahl.
Whatever his stature as an anthropologist, Heyerdahl
undertook some remarkable adventures, most famously
(but by no means limited to) the crossing of the
eastern pacific from South America to the Marquesas on
a nine-log balsa raft, in 1948, long before EPIRBS,
GPS or reverse osmosis systems. You know what I find
most remarkable about Heyerdahl? When he made up his
mind to try to cross the Pacific on a craft that no
one alive had seen as anything but illustrations in
old manuscripts, to test a theory of migration that no
expert on the subject supported, he telegraphed three
aquantances with whom he had fought the Germans in
WWII, inviting them to go. All three said yes.
Thor Heyerdahl, among many other things a
boat-builder, died last week in Norway, in bed, age
87.
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, recree8 wrote:__________________________________________________
> > Also a lot of us have wives and children that we
> may feel a
> > responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh
> really cared about.
> > In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious
> circumstances. So who
> > knows he might have died by his fireplace if he
> never thought to clean
> > the chimney once in awhile?
> > I guess some are stupid through choice and others
> by accident;-))
>
> And, keep in mind, that Old Josh himself was lost at
> sea.
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, recree8 wrote:
> Also a lot of us have wives and children that we may feel aAnd, keep in mind, that Old Josh himself was lost at sea.
> responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh really cared about.
> In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious circumstances. So who
> knows he might have died by his fireplace if he never thought to clean
> the chimney once in awhile?
> I guess some are stupid through choice and others by accident;-))
Not real familiar with the capabilities of Surf but I am a frequent
visitor to Horn Island. Horn Island is part of the Gulf Islands
National Seashore about 12 miles due south of Bilxoi Mississippi. It
was a favorite haunt of Mississippi artist Walter Inglis Anderson,
Anderson who would row a small skiff out to the Island and spend long
periods painting there (He was also a bit insane). Here are a couple
of links (one with a map of Andersons route)
http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/von.htm
http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org
This trip is regularly done in Sea Kayaks by GASP (Gulf Area Sea
Paddlers) members. Here is a report:
http://www.gasp-seakayak.org/hornIs-2.html
visitor to Horn Island. Horn Island is part of the Gulf Islands
National Seashore about 12 miles due south of Bilxoi Mississippi. It
was a favorite haunt of Mississippi artist Walter Inglis Anderson,
Anderson who would row a small skiff out to the Island and spend long
periods painting there (He was also a bit insane). Here are a couple
of links (one with a map of Andersons route)
http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/von.htm
http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org
This trip is regularly done in Sea Kayaks by GASP (Gulf Area Sea
Paddlers) members. Here is a report:
http://www.gasp-seakayak.org/hornIs-2.html
I said that, and I agree with your point. At times
one would far rather right a boat than spend the next
eons afloat. To some extent it would be optional, we
aren't talking about a particularly huge addition to
the boat, cleaverly designed, you could stand on the
nets, undo the boat, and flip it over on top of the
amas, almost as if ashore. You could stay in that
craddle until the squall passed, or whatever dunked
you, and then set off with or without the amas as
conditions allowed. Is anyone going to bother with
these amas, probably not, unless they belong to a
culture where the first thing that strikes them upon
seeing a surf is "where are the amas?".
--- Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would
be safer than a stock <BR>
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be
righted and sailed <BR>
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still
soaking it's <BR>
passengers feet.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
one would far rather right a boat than spend the next
eons afloat. To some extent it would be optional, we
aren't talking about a particularly huge addition to
the boat, cleaverly designed, you could stand on the
nets, undo the boat, and flip it over on top of the
amas, almost as if ashore. You could stay in that
craddle until the squall passed, or whatever dunked
you, and then set off with or without the amas as
conditions allowed. Is anyone going to bother with
these amas, probably not, unless they belong to a
culture where the first thing that strikes them upon
seeing a surf is "where are the amas?".
--- Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would
be safer than a stock <BR>
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be
righted and sailed <BR>
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still
soaking it's <BR>
passengers feet.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
I said that, and I agree with your point. At times
one would far rather right a boat than spend the next
eons afloat. To some extent it would be optional, we
aren't talking about a particularly huge addition to
the boat, cleaverly designed, you could stand on the
nets, undo the boat, and flip it over on top of the
amas, almost as if ashore. You could stay in that
craddle until the squall passed, or whatever dunked
you, and then set off with or without the amas as
conditions allowed. Is anyone going to bother with
these amas, probably not, unless they belong to a
culture where the first thing that strikes them upon
seeing a surf is "where are the amas?".
--- Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would
be safer than a stock <BR>
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be
righted and sailed <BR>
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still
soaking it's <BR>
passengers feet.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
one would far rather right a boat than spend the next
eons afloat. To some extent it would be optional, we
aren't talking about a particularly huge addition to
the boat, cleaverly designed, you could stand on the
nets, undo the boat, and flip it over on top of the
amas, almost as if ashore. You could stay in that
craddle until the squall passed, or whatever dunked
you, and then set off with or without the amas as
conditions allowed. Is anyone going to bother with
these amas, probably not, unless they belong to a
culture where the first thing that strikes them upon
seeing a surf is "where are the amas?".
--- Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would
be safer than a stock <BR>
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be
righted and sailed <BR>
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still
soaking it's <BR>
passengers feet.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
>> Wonder how many people died doing it? Plenty."We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this
>
>Consider too that a Surf is a far cry from a banks dory.
>
>I can't say that I would look forward to a 7 mile beat in a Surf
>against a 15kt breeze even though I'm pretty sure I would arrive
>safely - in about 3 hours.
>
decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but
because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and
measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge
is one that we are willing to accept..."
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
> Wonder how many people died doing it? Plenty.Consider too that a Surf is a far cry from a banks dory.
I can't say that I would look forward to a 7 mile beat in a Surf
against a 15kt breeze even though I'm pretty sure I would arrive
safely - in about 3 hours.
PHV
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002StepHydro@...wrote:
There is no shame is deciding you'd like to use a little sense to stay
alive.
> Wonder how they caught all those fish in dories a hundred miles off inWonder how many people died doing it? Plenty.
> some of the meanest water around? Don't you try it, though :-)
There is no shame is deciding you'd like to use a little sense to stay
alive.
> People cross hugeI'd do it -- but I have a habit leftover from my Laser days of
> straights swimming, all the time. One presumes if the
> perfectly reasonable fall back under certain
> circumstances, of a 3.5 mile swim were a comforting
> option, why ask whether Surf is up to the crossing?
compulsively building self-rescuing capabilities into all the
boats that I build. My hypothetical Surf would have the bow
and stern decked in with some nice sturdy flotation tanks that
could double as lockers for camping or picnic gear.
Of course, I'm also completely nuts, which is why I'm building
the Insolent 60. :-)
-- Sue --
(who also thinks that a Scooner is a perfectly reasonable vessel
for passages between Montauk and Block Island in the right weather,
given enough built-in buoyancy)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Well you are right about that!
Have you seen the lattest issue of epoxyworks? Has an
article, second in JR's series on sharpies, that
covers bizare ways of mounting motors and rudders. I
think the motor mount might work on either the
Economy, or the Anhinga.
The first instalment is on their web page under
current issue, which is from 2000, so I don't think
the real current issue is available electronicaly yet.
westsystem.com
I was briefly very warm here, a week in the 70s-80s.
It snowed today, so overall I haven't done anything on
my EEEK.
Cheers,
TD
--- Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
<BR>
<BR>
thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
Car toppable, safe and self reliant? A sea
kayak. For two, a pair. <BR>
Mark<BR>
<BR>
ps Good to hear you back on the list again, TD.<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
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</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
Have you seen the lattest issue of epoxyworks? Has an
article, second in JR's series on sharpies, that
covers bizare ways of mounting motors and rudders. I
think the motor mount might work on either the
Economy, or the Anhinga.
The first instalment is on their web page under
current issue, which is from 2000, so I don't think
the real current issue is available electronicaly yet.
westsystem.com
I was briefly very warm here, a week in the 70s-80s.
It snowed today, so overall I haven't done anything on
my EEEK.
Cheers,
TD
--- Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
<BR>
<BR>
thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
>So what boat is reasonable for this seven milecrossing<BR>
> aparently quite frequently?<BR><BR>
Car toppable, safe and self reliant? A sea
kayak. For two, a pair. <BR>
Mark<BR>
<BR>
ps Good to hear you back on the list again, TD.<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
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href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
Actually, that's usually reported as "no old, bold pilots". Come on!
If you use a Storm Petrel for this trip you will be run over by an SUV
as soon as you return. Or else all those years of Big Macs will catch
up. Or a cigarrette boat will chop you in half. (No joke, someone
had their legs removed by a crazed powerboat not so long ago,
according to the news.) It's like Bolger says about which risks we are
sensitive to. As long as you have your head about you, reasonable gear
and proper flotation. I've looked at the map and to me it looks semi
sheltered.
THe reason someone would do this is because they only have so much
time on earth to accomplish what they want (and only so many $), so
they don't want to wait for an ocean liner.
Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would be safer than a stock
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be righted and sailed
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still soaking it's
passengers feet.
BTW, a lightened version of Michalak's Woobo looks like it would be
fun for this. (say, aircraft fabric for parts of the flotation
chambers and really light plywood elsewhere). Several other suitable
ones from him also, I think.
P.S. If I recall from my reading, J.S. cared a great deal about his
first wife. She went with him. I also seem to recall she didn't drown.
P.P.S. Yes, if you exercise bad judgement, you can get killed. A
former coworker of mine was killed in a small boat when he went out in
conditions that were too rough. He did have some fun first.
If you use a Storm Petrel for this trip you will be run over by an SUV
as soon as you return. Or else all those years of Big Macs will catch
up. Or a cigarrette boat will chop you in half. (No joke, someone
had their legs removed by a crazed powerboat not so long ago,
according to the news.) It's like Bolger says about which risks we are
sensitive to. As long as you have your head about you, reasonable gear
and proper flotation. I've looked at the map and to me it looks semi
sheltered.
THe reason someone would do this is because they only have so much
time on earth to accomplish what they want (and only so many $), so
they don't want to wait for an ocean liner.
Someone said that a flipped Surf with amas would be safer than a stock
surf, but I think a Surf with flotation would be righted and sailed
(or rowed) back to shore while the other one was still soaking it's
passengers feet.
BTW, a lightened version of Michalak's Woobo looks like it would be
fun for this. (say, aircraft fabric for parts of the flotation
chambers and really light plywood elsewhere). Several other suitable
ones from him also, I think.
P.S. If I recall from my reading, J.S. cared a great deal about his
first wife. She went with him. I also seem to recall she didn't drown.
P.P.S. Yes, if you exercise bad judgement, you can get killed. A
former coworker of mine was killed in a small boat when he went out in
conditions that were too rough. He did have some fun first.
--- In bolger@y..., "recree8" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> Your remarks remind me of a saying the bush pilots in northern
Canada
> used to have:
>
> "There are dumb pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no
old
> dumb pilots."
>
> Why would a person go out into unprotected waters using a craft that
> the designer himself has said is only designed for protected waters?
> Particularly when this same designer has given us boats that are
> perfectly safe?
>
> Also a lot of us have wives and children that we may feel a
> responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh really cared
> about. In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious
circumstances.
> So who knows he might have died by his fireplace if he never thought
> to clean the chimney once in awhile?
>
> I guess some are stupid through choice and others by accident;-))
>
> Nels
>
> --- In bolger@y..., StepHydro@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 04/22/2002 6:<BR52:<BR19 PM
> > Eastern Daylight , bolger@y... writes:> Re: "Surf" for seven
> > miles of open water?
> >
> > Sheeeesh!!! What a bunch of old ladies!! Joshua Slocum would have
> died by his
> > fireplace never having seen the outside of his port if he had
asked
> this
> > bunch!
snip
thomas dalzell wrote:
Mark
ps Good to hear you back on the list again, TD.
>So what boat is reasonable for this seven mile crossingCar toppable, safe and self reliant? A sea kayak. For two, a pair.
> aparently quite frequently?
Mark
ps Good to hear you back on the list again, TD.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
This might be a bad thing. I think amas would not be
enough to prevent <BR>
capsizes in moments of carelessness, judging by my
experiences with a <BR>
Hobie Cat, but they would certainly make it very much
tougher to right <BR>
the boat if it went over far enough.<BR>
You may be right, but the Hobbie is a boat essentialy
overcanvased to sail on one hull, this boat would be
a boat without enough sail to regularly capsize Surf,
with vastly increased form stability, even if it did
capsize, while it might be impossible to right, it
would be much more surviveable. But whether that is
necesary, is another matter. One advantage is that
the whole thing would eb demounteable, so you could
kind of have your cake and eat it too.
What are we talking about here? At one extreme we
have waters that are so safe, that no boat is necesary
to cross seven miles of them. People cross huge
straights swimming, all the time. One presumes if the
perfectly reasonable fall back under certain
circumstances, of a 3.5 mile swim were a comforting
option, why ask whether Surf is up to the crossing?
We also know people have crossed the atlantic in boats
under 10'. So at some point the question of
reasonableness comes into it. I won't call for help,
I don't want to scare other people aboard, I don't
want them to be screwed if they can't rely on me. So
what boat is reasonable for this seven mile crossing
aparently quite frequently?
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
This might be a bad thing. I think amas would not be
enough to prevent <BR>
capsizes in moments of carelessness, judging by my
experiences with a <BR>
Hobie Cat, but they would certainly make it very much
tougher to right <BR>
the boat if it went over far enough.<BR>
You may be right, but the Hobbie is a boat essentialy
overcanvased to sail on one hull, this boat would be
a boat without enough sail to regularly capsize Surf,
with vastly increased form stability, even if it did
capsize, while it might be impossible to right, it
would be much more surviveable. But whether that is
necesary, is another matter. One advantage is that
the whole thing would eb demounteable, so you could
kind of have your cake and eat it too.
What are we talking about here? At one extreme we
have waters that are so safe, that no boat is necesary
to cross seven miles of them. People cross huge
straights swimming, all the time. One presumes if the
perfectly reasonable fall back under certain
circumstances, of a 3.5 mile swim were a comforting
option, why ask whether Surf is up to the crossing?
We also know people have crossed the atlantic in boats
under 10'. So at some point the question of
reasonableness comes into it. I won't call for help,
I don't want to scare other people aboard, I don't
want them to be screwed if they can't rely on me. So
what boat is reasonable for this seven mile crossing
aparently quite frequently?
______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca
Your remarks remind me of a saying the bush pilots in northern Canada
used to have:
"There are dumb pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no old
dumb pilots."
Why would a person go out into unprotected waters using a craft that
the designer himself has said is only designed for protected waters?
Particularly when this same designer has given us boats that are
perfectly safe?
Also a lot of us have wives and children that we may feel a
responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh really cared
about. In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious circumstances.
So who knows he might have died by his fireplace if he never thought
to clean the chimney once in awhile?
I guess some are stupid through choice and others by accident;-))
Nels
used to have:
"There are dumb pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no old
dumb pilots."
Why would a person go out into unprotected waters using a craft that
the designer himself has said is only designed for protected waters?
Particularly when this same designer has given us boats that are
perfectly safe?
Also a lot of us have wives and children that we may feel a
responsibility for, which I don't believe old Josh really cared
about. In fact he lost a few of his crew to suspicious circumstances.
So who knows he might have died by his fireplace if he never thought
to clean the chimney once in awhile?
I guess some are stupid through choice and others by accident;-))
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., StepHydro@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04/22/2002 6:<BR52:<BR19 PM
> Eastern Daylight , bolger@y... writes:> Re: "Surf" for seven
> miles of open water?
>
> Sheeeesh!!! What a bunch of old ladies!! Joshua Slocum would have
died by his
> fireplace never having seen the outside of his port if he had asked
this
> bunch!
>
> Can you sail? Can you swim?? Do you have good sense enough not to
go out on a
> forecast of bad weather? Do you have sense enough not to do this in
cold
> water? Do you have good enough sense to put the end compartments
full of
> flotation? You aren't old and feeble, are you?
>
> Use good sense and Surf is plenty fine. Bad sense and a bit of bad
luck and
> you are dead. It has ever been so with the sea. Horn Island is an
easy reach
> both wasy on most winds, though occasionally you'll have a beat
goind out.
> Your water is warm when you should be sailing a little boat like
that.
>
> Surf will be a bit of a handful to cartop, but with a bit of
mechanical
> riggery jiggery, you should be able to manage it, even if you
aren't a
> gorilla. As for two adults and a fair amount of gear, no prob.
>
> Wonder how they caught all those fish in dories a hundred miles off
in some
> of the meanest water around? Don't you try it, though :-)
>
> Cheers/Carron
In a message dated 04/22/2002 6:<BR52:<BR19 PM
Eastern Daylight ,bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:> Re: "Surf" for seven
miles of open water?
Sheeeesh!!! What a bunch of old ladies!! Joshua Slocum would have died by his
fireplace never having seen the outside of his port if he had asked this
bunch!
Can you sail? Can you swim?? Do you have good sense enough not to go out on a
forecast of bad weather? Do you have sense enough not to do this in cold
water? Do you have good enough sense to put the end compartments full of
flotation? You aren't old and feeble, are you?
Use good sense and Surf is plenty fine. Bad sense and a bit of bad luck and
you are dead. It has ever been so with the sea. Horn Island is an easy reach
both wasy on most winds, though occasionally you'll have a beat goind out.
Your water is warm when you should be sailing a little boat like that.
Surf will be a bit of a handful to cartop, but with a bit of mechanical
riggery jiggery, you should be able to manage it, even if you aren't a
gorilla. As for two adults and a fair amount of gear, no prob.
Wonder how they caught all those fish in dories a hundred miles off in some
of the meanest water around? Don't you try it, though :-)
Cheers/Carron
Eastern Daylight ,bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:> Re: "Surf" for seven
miles of open water?
Sheeeesh!!! What a bunch of old ladies!! Joshua Slocum would have died by his
fireplace never having seen the outside of his port if he had asked this
bunch!
Can you sail? Can you swim?? Do you have good sense enough not to go out on a
forecast of bad weather? Do you have sense enough not to do this in cold
water? Do you have good enough sense to put the end compartments full of
flotation? You aren't old and feeble, are you?
Use good sense and Surf is plenty fine. Bad sense and a bit of bad luck and
you are dead. It has ever been so with the sea. Horn Island is an easy reach
both wasy on most winds, though occasionally you'll have a beat goind out.
Your water is warm when you should be sailing a little boat like that.
Surf will be a bit of a handful to cartop, but with a bit of mechanical
riggery jiggery, you should be able to manage it, even if you aren't a
gorilla. As for two adults and a fair amount of gear, no prob.
Wonder how they caught all those fish in dories a hundred miles off in some
of the meanest water around? Don't you try it, though :-)
Cheers/Carron
I would consider either Harbinger (a cat boat) or Spartina another
cat boat.. Either of these Bolger Designs would do the trick, but
trailering would be a must. Other designs that come to mind: The
Dobler 16 mentioned in TF Jones Low Resistance Boats, the Green
Island 15 at headlandboats.com. But you sacrifice car topping with
these as well. A fellow in Peru built a Carnell $200
Sailboat/Featherwind (an approved modification on a Bolger design)
and sailed the coast of South America in it. He wrote about his
adventures sometime back in MAIB. You can car-top this design. An SF
Pelican would work. Some think it ugly, but I am attracted to its
quirkiness. I am sure that out of 700 designs, Mr. Bolger could suit
your fancy in some way -- it just depends on if you must car-top.
Dennis Marshall, Grand Rapids, MI
cat boat.. Either of these Bolger Designs would do the trick, but
trailering would be a must. Other designs that come to mind: The
Dobler 16 mentioned in TF Jones Low Resistance Boats, the Green
Island 15 at headlandboats.com. But you sacrifice car topping with
these as well. A fellow in Peru built a Carnell $200
Sailboat/Featherwind (an approved modification on a Bolger design)
and sailed the coast of South America in it. He wrote about his
adventures sometime back in MAIB. You can car-top this design. An SF
Pelican would work. Some think it ugly, but I am attracted to its
quirkiness. I am sure that out of 700 designs, Mr. Bolger could suit
your fancy in some way -- it just depends on if you must car-top.
Dennis Marshall, Grand Rapids, MI
--- In bolger@y..., "sterlingjb" <sterlingjb@y...> wrote:
> I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open water
> to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and
am
> not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable
> without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
> Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping reasonable?
> Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need to know?
> Thanks for any help, Richard
I live in New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain is similar to the
Mississippi Sound. I have been advised a plan like Cartopper is better
than a hard chine in rough water. I have plans for Cartopper and
Michalak's Toon 2. Cartopper has a 15 inch deep transom and Toon 2's
is 24 inches deep and has side benches and a cuddy. I, too, cartop now
and would have to buy a trailer for Toon 2, but I think I am going to
do so.
Mississippi Sound. I have been advised a plan like Cartopper is better
than a hard chine in rough water. I have plans for Cartopper and
Michalak's Toon 2. Cartopper has a 15 inch deep transom and Toon 2's
is 24 inches deep and has side benches and a cuddy. I, too, cartop now
and would have to buy a trailer for Toon 2, but I think I am going to
do so.
This might be a bad thing. I think amas would not be enough to prevent
capsizes in moments of carelessness, judging by my experiences with a
Hobie Cat, but they would certainly make it very much tougher to right
the boat if it went over far enough.
I think some people are providing advice as if this island was off the
coast of Maine (i.e. cold water) or as if human life expectancy was
1,000,000 years, tho. I think in a boat with proper flotation, and
with a little care and attention to the weather, this boat trip would
be safer than the drive to the launching point. It's not necessary to
have a seven mile long boat to go seven miles. But I'm not an expert
on this Horn Island, haven't even found it on the map yet.
For a way to do bouyancy tanks and for some designs (such as Piccup)
which have floatation built in and might be suitable for your trip,
see:
www.apci.net/~michalak
I have no doubt that some of these tricks can be used on Bolger
designs.
If I was making the trip I might want to be sure to have oars, with
the locks set up so that rowing was easy. Much better than being
becalmed in the middle overnight.
BTW, I think a boat which can be sailed swamped can also probably be
bailed. Much easier to sail with the water out of it.
capsizes in moments of carelessness, judging by my experiences with a
Hobie Cat, but they would certainly make it very much tougher to right
the boat if it went over far enough.
I think some people are providing advice as if this island was off the
coast of Maine (i.e. cold water) or as if human life expectancy was
1,000,000 years, tho. I think in a boat with proper flotation, and
with a little care and attention to the weather, this boat trip would
be safer than the drive to the launching point. It's not necessary to
have a seven mile long boat to go seven miles. But I'm not an expert
on this Horn Island, haven't even found it on the map yet.
For a way to do bouyancy tanks and for some designs (such as Piccup)
which have floatation built in and might be suitable for your trip,
see:
www.apci.net/~michalak
I have no doubt that some of these tricks can be used on Bolger
designs.
If I was making the trip I might want to be sure to have oars, with
the locks set up so that rowing was easy. Much better than being
becalmed in the middle overnight.
BTW, I think a boat which can be sailed swamped can also probably be
bailed. Much easier to sail with the water out of it.
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> If I was trying to make it more seaworthy, I would add
> small amas. Think of that Shell boat that was a
> trimaran version of the G B Heron. Though they no
> longer have a picture of it I could find on their
> page.
>
>http://www.shellboats.com/index.html
> Another question is what wouldIt would be improper to suggest that I can answer that question, but
> Dynamite or Phil suggest?
I note that part of the spec for the Singlehanded (aka His % Hers)
Schooner was the ability to sail to Catalina. Note it has 100+ lbs of
lead in the keel and most of the hull volume is supposed to be at
least mostly watertight.
So far, thinking in terms of getting caught by a thunderstorm half
way between Point Judith and Block Island, the only type of
cartopable boat that appeals to me is one with 100% contained volume,
like a Laser or Sunfish. I talked to a Dart catamaran dealer once who
thought it was a seamanlike proposition to sail one from Westerly to
Block, 16 miles of open water, without any special preparations or
any special gear. Given his attitude, I took this to mean perhaps not
even a proper compass or chart or food or water. I wonder if he is
still with us.
Of course, thunderstorms are cold. The wet suit or survival suit
would be a must.
David made good points about gear failures. Bolger himself wrote
somewhere about a friend who had a close call due to a broken oarlock
and an offshore breeze.
Peter (who is noticeably skittish about lightning. That thunderstorm
1/2 way out to Block is not actually very appealing at all.)
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
smooth? Wouldn't one have to assume the water would be rough if one
were swamped? Therefore, all things considered - what you are are
doing is very risky in my view. Another question is what would
Dynamite or Phil suggest?
Also you have to figure on getting back from the island once you get
there. What if you swim to the island and the boat continues down
stream or downwind? The opposite happened to me once. I dumped in
rapids and the canoe washed up on an island and I was on the shore!
Lucky for me some fishermen saw some of my stuff floating by
downstream and they had a rubber raft and lots of rope with them but
how often does that happen? We were damn lucky as no one normally
travelled that river... that was the reason that there were lots of
fish! (These guys had walked into their fishing spot!)
My suggestion would be Birdwatcher at least - or beter yet Micro.
Also some Jim Michalak's designse that are similar. He lives
near the Mississippi I believe.
All of these of course require a trailer.
Nels
> I regularly take my Teal out in the open ocean and have found thewww.duckworksmagazine.com
> experiences to be educational. If you go to
> you can find a couple of related stories.a
>
> In terms of self rescue, the biggest problem I've found with the
> instant boats is how low they float when swamped. This might not be
> problem when the water is smooth, but put a little chop on thewater
> and suddenly it's coming in a lot fast than you can bail it backout
> again.My first question would be - how often do you swamp when the water is
>
smooth? Wouldn't one have to assume the water would be rough if one
were swamped? Therefore, all things considered - what you are are
doing is very risky in my view. Another question is what would
Dynamite or Phil suggest?
Also you have to figure on getting back from the island once you get
there. What if you swim to the island and the boat continues down
stream or downwind? The opposite happened to me once. I dumped in
rapids and the canoe washed up on an island and I was on the shore!
Lucky for me some fishermen saw some of my stuff floating by
downstream and they had a rubber raft and lots of rope with them but
how often does that happen? We were damn lucky as no one normally
travelled that river... that was the reason that there were lots of
fish! (These guys had walked into their fishing spot!)
My suggestion would be Birdwatcher at least - or beter yet Micro.
Also some Jim Michalak's designse that are similar. He lives
near the Mississippi I believe.
All of these of course require a trailer.
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
boat is comforting, and I will try this before any attempt at a
crossing!
> I think any boat that you use should have enough flotation that youI
> can bail it out even in a chop, or at least sail it. (A Tech Dinghy
> can be sailed while full of water, and I suspect other boats can.)
> once had a frightening experience in cold water with an OdaySprite
> that had insufficient flotation. The silly part was that earlier inThanks for your response, the thought of possibly sailing a swamped
> the day I had been using a wet suit but this time I hadn't bothered.
boat is comforting, and I will try this before any attempt at a
crossing!
> --- In bolger@y..., "sterlingjb" <sterlingjb@y...> wrote:water
> > I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open
> > to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, andam
> > not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightablereasonable?
> > without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
> > Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping
> > Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need toknow?
> > Thanks for any help, Richard
I think any boat that you use should have enough flotation that you
can bail it out even in a chop, or at least sail it. (A Tech Dinghy
can be sailed while full of water, and I suspect other boats can.) I
once had a frightening experience in cold water with an Oday Sprite
that had insufficient flotation. The silly part was that earlier in
the day I had been using a wet suit but this time I hadn't bothered.
can bail it out even in a chop, or at least sail it. (A Tech Dinghy
can be sailed while full of water, and I suspect other boats can.) I
once had a frightening experience in cold water with an Oday Sprite
that had insufficient flotation. The silly part was that earlier in
the day I had been using a wet suit but this time I hadn't bothered.
--- In bolger@y..., "sterlingjb" <sterlingjb@y...> wrote:
> I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open water
> to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and am
> not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable
> without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
> Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping reasonable?
> Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need to know?
> Thanks for any help, Richard
This is a really neat boat. It looks simple. has
style, and is a neat arrangement of sails on a boat
without much in the way of a spar. It would be fun to
try something like this on my BassAckward 16' cat.
http://www.shellboats.com/sbcrabclawcat.html
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
style, and is a neat arrangement of sails on a boat
without much in the way of a spar. It would be fun to
try something like this on my BassAckward 16' cat.
http://www.shellboats.com/sbcrabclawcat.html
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
If I was trying to make it more seaworthy, I would add
small amas. Think of that Shell boat that was a
trimaran version of the G B Heron. Though they no
longer have a picture of it I could find on their
page.
http://www.shellboats.com/index.html
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, sterlingjb wrote:<BR>
<BR>
You wouldn't find me doing it. Seven miles of
open water can be a lot<BR>
when you get surprised--and in the Gulf, surprises are
a cost of doing<BR>
business.<BR>
<BR>
The capsize is substantially harder to get out of in
such a boat, but it's<BR>
not impossible. If I were you, I would build in
substantially sized<BR>
flotation chambers at either end (which would amount
to partial decking.<BR>
I would extend the tops of the flotation chambers back
a bit, as more<BR>
decking.<BR>
<BR>
It will car-top, and it will fit two adults.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
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small amas. Think of that Shell boat that was a
trimaran version of the G B Heron. Though they no
longer have a picture of it I could find on their
page.
http://www.shellboats.com/index.html
--- Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, sterlingjb wrote:<BR>
> I am concidering building a Surf to cover sevenmiles of open water to<BR>
> camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned aHobie 16, and am not<BR>
> averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat isrightable without too<BR>
> much drama. Does this seem feasable? Also,what does a completed Surf<BR>
> weigh? Is car-topping reasonable? Will shecarry two adults? Anything<BR>
> else that I might need to know? Thanks forany help, Richard<BR>
<BR>
You wouldn't find me doing it. Seven miles of
open water can be a lot<BR>
when you get surprised--and in the Gulf, surprises are
a cost of doing<BR>
business.<BR>
<BR>
The capsize is substantially harder to get out of in
such a boat, but it's<BR>
not impossible. If I were you, I would build in
substantially sized<BR>
flotation chambers at either end (which would amount
to partial decking.<BR>
I would extend the tops of the flotation chambers back
a bit, as more<BR>
decking.<BR>
<BR>
It will car-top, and it will fit two adults.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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I regularly take my Teal out in the open ocean and have found the
experiences to be educational. If you go to www.duckworksmagazine.com
you can find a couple of related stories.
In terms of self rescue, the biggest problem I've found with the
instant boats is how low they float when swamped. This might not be a
problem when the water is smooth, but put a little chop on the water
and suddenly it's coming in a lot fast than you can bail it back out
again.
If you can't self rescue, then you could be looking at a *very* long
time until you fetch up on the lee shore. A factor that can add to
hypothermia danger is having the sun go down, especially if there's
wind on top of that. Wet and wind-blown that might be mere
uncomfortable while the sun is high could be fatal once the sun goes
down.
I would do three things:
1) Find out how the boat behaves in crappy conditions. I can
self-rescue my teal in smooth water, but the slightest bit of chop
and I'm done for unless I can get the boat to shore. I don't like
being rescued; it's embarrassing. I wouldn't make the trip unless I
had EXTREME confidence in the boat's self-rescue capacity, or EXTREME
confidence in my ability to swim to shore, and probably both. Three
summers ago 3 1/2 miles would have been a piece of cake for me. Right
now that seems like a looooooong way.
2) Dress for success (or should that be failure?) Get a lifejacket
you don't mind wearing ALL THE TIME, and unless the water is above 72
degrees get some kind of wetsuit. The goal is to be able to float and
stay warm regardless of what happens to the boat. Attach a whistle to
the lifejacket. If you're comfortable using them, a pair of swimfins
can dramatically increase the range of swimming self-rescue.
3) Give someone an itinerary. It doesn't matter how high you float or
how warm you are if no one is looking for you. Bring your mobile
phone so you can call and let someone know you've arrived safe and
sound. You might even get off a call with it in a disaster scenario
before wetness killed the circuitry. I think you can get a
water-proof VHS radio for about $150. Could be handy if you got into
trouble on the water. I've got one on my birthday list.
Also remember that things break or get lost overboard, especially
when conditions get crappy. What will you do if when you go over your
mast float out of it's step and an oar floats away? My plan amounts
to "I'll swim it" Whether or not this is a reasonable plan for you
on the body of water in question is up to your judgement.
On the whole it sounds like a lovely trip provided nothing goes
wrong. With a little fore thought you can probably limit the likely
consequences of mistakes to embarrassment. Of course your mileage may
vary. If you capsize, loose your boat, get caught out after dark and
then run over and chopped up by a commercial barge, I don't want your
wife or kids coming crying to me. If fact, I don't want to hear about
it at all!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
experiences to be educational. If you go to www.duckworksmagazine.com
you can find a couple of related stories.
In terms of self rescue, the biggest problem I've found with the
instant boats is how low they float when swamped. This might not be a
problem when the water is smooth, but put a little chop on the water
and suddenly it's coming in a lot fast than you can bail it back out
again.
If you can't self rescue, then you could be looking at a *very* long
time until you fetch up on the lee shore. A factor that can add to
hypothermia danger is having the sun go down, especially if there's
wind on top of that. Wet and wind-blown that might be mere
uncomfortable while the sun is high could be fatal once the sun goes
down.
I would do three things:
1) Find out how the boat behaves in crappy conditions. I can
self-rescue my teal in smooth water, but the slightest bit of chop
and I'm done for unless I can get the boat to shore. I don't like
being rescued; it's embarrassing. I wouldn't make the trip unless I
had EXTREME confidence in the boat's self-rescue capacity, or EXTREME
confidence in my ability to swim to shore, and probably both. Three
summers ago 3 1/2 miles would have been a piece of cake for me. Right
now that seems like a looooooong way.
2) Dress for success (or should that be failure?) Get a lifejacket
you don't mind wearing ALL THE TIME, and unless the water is above 72
degrees get some kind of wetsuit. The goal is to be able to float and
stay warm regardless of what happens to the boat. Attach a whistle to
the lifejacket. If you're comfortable using them, a pair of swimfins
can dramatically increase the range of swimming self-rescue.
3) Give someone an itinerary. It doesn't matter how high you float or
how warm you are if no one is looking for you. Bring your mobile
phone so you can call and let someone know you've arrived safe and
sound. You might even get off a call with it in a disaster scenario
before wetness killed the circuitry. I think you can get a
water-proof VHS radio for about $150. Could be handy if you got into
trouble on the water. I've got one on my birthday list.
Also remember that things break or get lost overboard, especially
when conditions get crappy. What will you do if when you go over your
mast float out of it's step and an oar floats away? My plan amounts
to "I'll swim it" Whether or not this is a reasonable plan for you
on the body of water in question is up to your judgement.
On the whole it sounds like a lovely trip provided nothing goes
wrong. With a little fore thought you can probably limit the likely
consequences of mistakes to embarrassment. Of course your mileage may
vary. If you capsize, loose your boat, get caught out after dark and
then run over and chopped up by a commercial barge, I don't want your
wife or kids coming crying to me. If fact, I don't want to hear about
it at all!
YIBB,
David
>You will have to judge with your own situation. IC.E.P.
>definetly don't think one can compare a capsize in a
>hobbie to a small open boat. A capsized Hobbie is a
>pretty good life raft,with it's bouyancy intact, and
>its stability enhanced. This is unlikely the case
>with any small skiff type thing. What any of this
>means will depend on your specific situation. What is
>the downside of capsize in the area you are sailing?
>For instance up here, cold water is a real problem,
>and creates totaly different scenarios than would be
>encountered where water is warm.
>
>
>--- sterlingjb <sterlingjb@...> wrote:
>
><HR>
><html><body>
>
>
><tt>
>I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles
>of open water <BR>
>to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a
>Hobie 16, and am <BR>
>not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is
>rightable <BR>
>without too much drama. Does this seem feasable? <BR>
>Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping
>reasonable? <BR>
>Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might
>need to know? <BR>
>Thanks for any help, Richard<BR>
><BR>
></tt>
>
><br>
>
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><tt>
>Bolger rules!!!<BR>
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
>dead horses<BR>
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
>topic, and punctuate<BR>
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
>snip all you like<BR>
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
>Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
>- Unsubscribe:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
><br>
>
><br>
><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
>href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
>of Service</a>.</tt>
></br>
>
></body></html>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I would not choose Surf, but I am not sure what Bolger Boat I would
choose. Surf is a pretty high performance boat that encourages
rewards hiking, but doesn't offer a place to sit while doing so.
Seven miles is a long way to go sitting on a narrow gunnel.
I don't necessarily recommend the Pirate Racer either, but it's wider
with a side deck to sit on, and, due to the narrow stern, is not as
sensitive to trim. The end compartments provide flotation.
An obvious cartop boat is CarTopper!
Peter
choose. Surf is a pretty high performance boat that encourages
rewards hiking, but doesn't offer a place to sit while doing so.
Seven miles is a long way to go sitting on a narrow gunnel.
I don't necessarily recommend the Pirate Racer either, but it's wider
with a side deck to sit on, and, due to the narrow stern, is not as
sensitive to trim. The end compartments provide flotation.
An obvious cartop boat is CarTopper!
Peter
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, sterlingjb wrote:
when you get surprised--and in the Gulf, surprises are a cost of doing
business.
The capsize is substantially harder to get out of in such a boat, but it's
not impossible. If I were you, I would build in substantially sized
flotation chambers at either end (which would amount to partial decking.
I would extend the tops of the flotation chambers back a bit, as more
decking.
It will car-top, and it will fit two adults.
> I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open water toYou wouldn't find me doing it. Seven miles of open water can be a lot
> camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and am not
> averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable without too
> much drama. Does this seem feasable? Also, what does a completed Surf
> weigh? Is car-topping reasonable? Will she carry two adults? Anything
> else that I might need to know? Thanks for any help, Richard
when you get surprised--and in the Gulf, surprises are a cost of doing
business.
The capsize is substantially harder to get out of in such a boat, but it's
not impossible. If I were you, I would build in substantially sized
flotation chambers at either end (which would amount to partial decking.
I would extend the tops of the flotation chambers back a bit, as more
decking.
It will car-top, and it will fit two adults.
You will have to judge with your own situation. I
definetly don't think one can compare a capsize in a
hobbie to a small open boat. A capsized Hobbie is a
pretty good life raft,with it's bouyancy intact, and
its stability enhanced. This is unlikely the case
with any small skiff type thing. What any of this
means will depend on your specific situation. What is
the downside of capsize in the area you are sailing?
For instance up here, cold water is a real problem,
and creates totaly different scenarios than would be
encountered where water is warm.
--- sterlingjb <sterlingjb@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles
of open water <BR>
to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a
Hobie 16, and am <BR>
not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is
rightable <BR>
without too much drama. Does this seem feasable? <BR>
Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping
reasonable? <BR>
Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might
need to know? <BR>
Thanks for any help, Richard<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
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Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
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</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
definetly don't think one can compare a capsize in a
hobbie to a small open boat. A capsized Hobbie is a
pretty good life raft,with it's bouyancy intact, and
its stability enhanced. This is unlikely the case
with any small skiff type thing. What any of this
means will depend on your specific situation. What is
the downside of capsize in the area you are sailing?
For instance up here, cold water is a real problem,
and creates totaly different scenarios than would be
encountered where water is warm.
--- sterlingjb <sterlingjb@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles
of open water <BR>
to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a
Hobie 16, and am <BR>
not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is
rightable <BR>
without too much drama. Does this seem feasable? <BR>
Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping
reasonable? <BR>
Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might
need to know? <BR>
Thanks for any help, Richard<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
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href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1994012.3473453.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466"targe
t=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/250x300_bluechair.jpg"alt="Click
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Here!" width="250" height="300"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
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<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
I am concidering building a Surf to cover seven miles of open water
to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and am
not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable
without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping reasonable?
Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need to know?
Thanks for any help, Richard
to camp on Horn Island, Mississippi. I have owned a Hobie 16, and am
not averse to an occaisional capsize, if the boat is rightable
without too much drama. Does this seem feasable?
Also, what does a completed Surf weigh? Is car-topping reasonable?
Will she carry two adults? Anything else that I might need to know?
Thanks for any help, Richard