Re: [bolger] Re: SS Nails

>Thanks everyone for the help on finding the nails. I purchased all I need
>for now from Contractors Depot. Got Silicon Bronze boat nails ( ring
>shank ) for $5.45 a lb.
>
>Not sure what I would do without this group helping me out with this kind of
>stuff. Big project needs big help.

OTOH: You probably wouldn't be doing this big project without us
egging you on. ;-)

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

see below

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
snip
> I usualy put this on the back itsel, so you can read
> what is actualy hapening there. The gougeon approach
> is to mount it in one of those black plumbing pipe end
> cups, all you do is perforate the bag where you need
> it, and put some reuseable putty around the base. Its
> pre voyerism however. I have never learned anything
> essential about a job from it, never had a job that
> didn't work, so one is monitering something that is
> obvious. It is a confidence builder at the outset.
>
With a slower pump, a good vacuum reading reassures you that you don't
have a leak. I've seen leaks open up a little after a while, but not
when the vacuum guage is maxed out (i.e. almost the same as when
plumbed straight to the pump with no bag)
> snip
> If you use the shop vac as your pump, you need to
> provide it about 4 x 1/4" holes for cool air to come
> through, or it will overheat and burn out. These go
> right in the hose. there is enough air throughput that
> this does not reduce the vac effect.

During a basement pumping fiasco, I discovered our vac will pull
harder against a recalcitrant load if I add vent holes. I think I used
something like five 1/8" holes, but this probably depends very much on
the individual vac.
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
> Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca

Thanks everyone for the help on finding the nails. I purchased all I need
for now from Contractors Depot. Got Silicon Bronze boat nails ( ring
shank ) for $5.45 a lb.

Not sure what I would do without this group helping me out with this kind of
stuff. Big project needs big help.

Thanks

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "rdchamberland" <cha62759@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: SS Nails

> Jamestown Distributors
> 1-800-423-0030
> For fasteners this is the place to go. Stainless 4.95/lb, silicon
> bronze 6.53/lb. They have all your sizes however 7/8 is in bronze 1"
> in stainless. Shipping 2.50 plus what the carrier charges.
> Bob Chamberland
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through
> out and
> > Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to water.
> >
> > Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300 -
> 2 1/2"
> > SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes. (ring
> > shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but
> to no
> > avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an
> electric
> > drill on that many.
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Jamestown Distributors
1-800-423-0030
For fasteners this is the place to go. Stainless 4.95/lb, silicon
bronze 6.53/lb. They have all your sizes however 7/8 is in bronze 1"
in stainless. Shipping 2.50 plus what the carrier charges.
Bob Chamberland

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through
out and
> Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to water.
>
> Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300 -
2 1/2"
> SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes. (ring
> shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but
to no
> avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an
electric
> drill on that many.
>
> Jeff

Jamestown Distributors
1-800-423-0030
7/8"in silicon bronze. 1" in stainless steel. All other sizes
specified either in stainless or silicon bronze. Stainless at 4.95 per
lb. bronze at 6.53 per lb. Shipping is 2.50 plus actual cost required
by the carrier. bronze 7/8 are 680 nails per lb., 1 1/4-425 per lb., 2
1'2 are129 per lb. but check the guage for counts. These counts are
for 14 guage for 7/8 and 12 guage for the larger sizes.
Bob Chamberland

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through
out and
> Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to water.
>
> Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300 -
2 1/2"
> SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes. (ring
> shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but
to no
> avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an
electric
> drill on that many.
>
> Jeff

ere's probably someplace on the net covering this, but
it's mostly a 
common sense operation. You probably want something
quiter than most 
shop vacs, tho one might be useful for initially
exhausting excess air 
inside of the bag.

QSP VAC, smallest, is very quiet. I used a real
screammer, and we would run for the door of our shop
once we set it.

Any old "plumbing" that you can find which
doesn't 
collapse under vacuum will do: thick walled rubber or
plastic hose 
works fine.

We just used garden hose. it won't collapse under the
low pressure systems, or vane pumps.

You need some kind of enclosure. Heavy polyethylene
will 
do.

Visqueen is fine, even the 6 mil, if you aren't
re-using.

Automotive strip caulk is good for sealing the seams.
There's 
probably something else cheaper for large jobs like
boats, but I don't 
know what.

Cheappest caulking you can find we got a bunch of
household stuff for about99 cents a tube, shouldn't be
runny.

You should use rope or paper towels to give the air an
 
escape path, but there should be plastic or something
between the 
epoxy and this stuff or you will have paper towels or
rope glued to 
your wood.

The escape path thing is over-rated, this isn't a wet
system, like laying down prepeg cloth, where the whole
thing acts to seal off one piece form the next. the
plywood surface will be 98% dry, however and if you
run your hose full length, you will probably get a
fine job. We saved up bubble pack, and threw that in
here and there.

It helps to have some kind of a chamber in the middle
of 
the hose, like a sturdy bottle or can that won't
collapse under 
vacuum, so that any epoxy in the line doesn't make it
to the pump. On 

Again this is a wet lay-up issue. I never got any
resin coming back to the pump with ply, a complete no
issue. But a real issue when working coth, where
sucking up excess resin is an actual objective.

small jobs an automotive fuel filter might work. Also
useful to use a 
vacuum gauge downsteam of the chamber. THese are not
very expensive, 
but are quite useful to judge sealing progress. 
 

I usualy put this on the back itsel, so you can read
what is actualy hapening there. The gougeon approach
is to mount it in one of those black plumbing pipe end
cups, all you do is perforate the bag where you need
it, and put some reuseable putty around the base. Its
pre voyerism however. I have never learned anything
essential about a job from it, never had a job that
didn't work, so one is monitering something that is
obvious. It is a confidence builder at the outset.

Here's how I would do it: 
1. Lay down a large piece of heavy plastic
(polyethylene is good and 
epoxy won't stick to it) on floor or work surface.
 
2. Lay down first wood layer, goop with epoxy, then
place second 

All you need is clear epoxy, just poor it on, and
squeegee it out to the edges, this will cure much more
slowly that you might expect. It doesn't build up the
heat you get from mixing fillers, and it can be spread
out thin imediately, whic really lengthens working
time. Kick off was never a problem when using
something in the range of Slow WEST.

If you use the shop vac as your pump, you need to
provide it about 4 x 1/4" holes for cool air to come
through, or it will overheat and burn out. These go
right in the hose. there is enough air throughput that
this does not reduce the vac effect.

______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca

If you have a heavier vacuum than a shop vac, that's
good, but I used the cheapest shop vac on my large ply
sheets. what you do is lay down the first layer, with
tight butts, I would be inclined to biscuit the edges
of 1/2" or better sheets on this layer, every few feet
or so, and when laying down the subsequent layer since
it tends to unite them, which mean the vacuum isn't
pushing don't to springy edges, but things acting as
sheets. What you would do is run the plywood wide
over the bottom, if there are two layers over the top,
6" would be good, and this is the big disadvantage if
it creates waste, on the other hand if the offcuts
aren't useable on another part of the boat, it doesn't
matter. Also, if your boat is exactly 8' wide, then
it isn't going to work for obvious reasons. Coat each
side to be done with clear, and lay it down, you could
do both layers at once, but I would probably do one,
one advantage is there isn't any mixing of thickened
epoxy necesary, just regular clear. Make sure each
subsequent layer extends over the edge of the bottom
ouline, but well short of the 6" excess, since there
is a possibility that the joint won't be perfect out
to the edge, you need an inch or two around the whole
base for trim. Put down a bead of caulking around the
6" edge, which means you can't epoxy all the way out
on it, and throw your visqueen on it. hook your vac
up to the bag, suck it down around the hose, and it
all goes flat as a pankake. On smaller boats with
only one additional layer in the bottom, a 3" edge
would be enough, I am saying 6" since it gives more
room to work with two sheets. I just don't believe
you can get a good joint with a nail every 1' on
center unless prodigious amounts of epoxy are used,
and even then, if one of those nails doesn't bite, you
might have a void. To give you a sense of what
happens with the edge run out, when making ply by
staking about a foot of left over 1/8" panels from
another project, I lost only about half an inch around
the edge of the panel. With compound curved decks, I
probably loose two inches, so the 6" thing is pretty
conservative.

A "better" way still would be to scarph all the sheets
in the initial layer, and then scarph/bag all
subsequent layers. This would be some extra work, but
the end result would be much stronger. Nonetheless,
it is strength that isn't called for in the design.
Scarphs and vacuum go together really well, however.

--- brucehallman <brucehallman@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell
<proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:

> ...vacuum baging faster still.

OK, please explain how to do a vacuum bag. Shop
vac? Visqueen? Duct 
Tape? 
 
 
</tt>

 
<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


</body></html>

______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca

There's probably someplace on the net covering this, but it's mostly a
common sense operation. You probably want something quiter than most
shop vacs, tho one might be useful for initially exhausting excess air
inside of the bag. Any old "plumbing" that you can find which doesn't
collapse under vacuum will do: thick walled rubber or plastic hose
works fine. You need some kind of enclosure. Heavy polyethylene will
do. Automotive strip caulk is good for sealing the seams. There's
probably something else cheaper for large jobs like boats, but I don't
know what.You should use rope or paper towels to give the air an
escape path, but there should be plastic or something between the
epoxy and this stuff or you will have paper towels or rope glued to
your wood. It helps to have some kind of a chamber in the middle of
the hose, like a sturdy bottle or can that won't collapse under
vacuum, so that any epoxy in the line doesn't make it to the pump. On
small jobs an automotive fuel filter might work. Also useful to use a
vacuum gauge downsteam of the chamber. THese are not very expensive,
but are quite useful to judge sealing progress.

Here's how I would do it:
1. Lay down a large piece of heavy plastic (polyethylene is good and
epoxy won't stick to it) on floor or work surface.
2. Lay down first wood layer, goop with epoxy, then place second
layer. You might want to tack it or tape it to keep it from sliding.
Make sure your epoxy is slow or you will not like the results, and
don't allow any significant delays after mixing the epoxy as you need
to be done before it starts to set too much.
3. Bed vacuum hose in your caulk at the perimeter of the plastic, with
maybe a piece of cloth or paper towel over the end to prevent plastic
from sealing it. Put a strip of plastic over the middle of the wood,
then put (cheap) rope over it to let out air. Run strip of caulk
around perimeter of large plastic sheet.
4. Place another large plastic sheet over the top of all this.GO
around and press down the edges, trying to avoid wrinkles, until you
have a chance at a seal. Turn on the pump, and the shop vac if you
have it. When the plastic starts to draw down tight, remove the shop
vac from the line and turn it off, but leave the vacuum pump on. CHeck
vacuum gauge. If you don't have at least several inches Hg of vacuum
(depending partly on the vacuum source), go around the edges of the
bag and listen for hissing noises. You can use a tube held to your ear
to make this more sensitive. Pinch and manipulate the hissing areas
until the noise goes away. Eventually, the gauge will reach a
reasonable level. Go away for a bit, come back and recheck the vacuum,
then leave on until epoxy is hard.

Be careful about soft things inside the bag. Some kinds of foam, for
instance, can be crushed this way if you use too much vacuum. Vacuum
level can be controlled with a switch (which you can buy or make from
a spring and a vacuum actuator from the air breather snorkel of an old
car in the junkyard) or you can just add a breather valve (aquarium
adjustable air distribution valve is cheap and works).

Probably worthwhile to practice on some old cardboard or something
until you have it all figured out.

I think foam cored plywood panels would be great for decks and cabin
tops, given the right materials.

--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> > ...vacuum baging faster still.
>
> OK, please explain how to do a vacuum bag. Shop vac? Visqueen?
Duct
> Tape?

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:

> ...vacuum baging faster still.

OK, please explain how to do a vacuum bag. Shop vac? Visqueen? Duct
Tape?

Pneumatic staples, or vacuum baging faster still. In
fact if this is a basicaly flat bottom boat, its
almost a pity not to bag it.
---boatbuilding@...wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>

> Use screws, talk to Chuck. 
>

I just received 800 screws from Chuck yesterday.
Nails will be 
faster for the hull bottom. 
 
Collecting, and collecting, and collecting. My
start date is 
Saturday May 4th, my wife's birthday. Soon the
labor of love 
with the Love starts. 
 
Jeff 
 
 
</tt>

 
<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


</body></html>

______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file!http://taxes.yahoo.ca

> Anyway;
> 304 or 316 stainless ring shank, they even have silicon
> bronze.
>
>
>http://www.tupent.com/stainless/marine304.htm
>

Just ordered about 2000 assorted Silicon Bronze boat nails from
this site. Prices where good, selection was easy.

The SB where same price as SS so went with boat nails.

Jeff

> Use screws, talk to Chuck.
>

I just received 800 screws from Chuck yesterday. Nails will be
faster for the hull bottom.

Collecting, and collecting, and collecting. My start date is
Saturday May 4th, my wife's birthday. Soon the labor of love
with the Love starts.

Jeff

> I can't belive your going to build that boat with 1200
> nails, maybe 12,000?

The bottom is about about 360 sq ft and to nail it together
Bolger calls for 1 nail every sq ft to layed down in a cross
hatch pattern. Thats 360 nails per layer 2 nailed layers. The
rest are for the 1 1/2" square cedar nailers.

Everything else will be be SS screws as needed.

Several thousand of all types of fasteners will be needed.

A bunch to say the least.

Jeff

Use screws, talk to Chuck.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:51 PM
Subject: [bolger] SS Nails

> I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through out
and
> Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to water.
>
> Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300 - 2
1/2"
> SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes. (ring
> shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but to no
> avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an
electric
> drill on that many.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I buy SB ring shank here;

http://rjleahy.com/Store/nails/silicon.htm

Not sure if they caarry stainless...

Rick

-- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:

> I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through

out and

> Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to

water.

>
> Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300

-
2 1/2"

> SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes.

(ring

> shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but

to no

> avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an

electric

> drill on that many.
>
> Jeff

I can't belive your going to build that boat with 1200 nails, maybe
12,000?

Anyway;
304 or 316 stainless ring shank, they even have silicon bronze.

http://www.tupent.com/stainless/marine304.htm

Rick

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through
out and
> Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to
water.
>
> Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300
-
2 1/2"
> SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes.
(ring
> shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but
to no
> avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an
electric
> drill on that many.
>
> Jeff

I'm not a fan of SS nails but the Wyo plans show using them through out and
Mr Bolger says fine as long as they aren't exposed directly to water.

Question is that I need about 400 - 7/8" , 500 - 1 1/4" , and 300 - 2 1/2"
SS nails and be darned if I can find a supplier for these sizes. (ring
shank nails) Any ideas? I tried all the links I got on Google but to no
avail on these sizes. I could go to screws but I'd hate burn up an electric
drill on that many.

Jeff