[bolger] Re: FS vs. LS (was modern Light Scooner)
BO>> BO>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
BO>>
BO>> BO>Chuck C.
BO>>
BO>> Actually, I'd debate that. In terms of hull speed, of course,it has to
BO>>
BO>> Tim & Flying Tadpole
OK, having recovered from the ravages of races:
CBH = Class-Based Handicap. You multiply the elapsed (race) time to get
the corrected (handicap included) time. (Yachting SA, AYF, ISAF)
Light Schooner CBH 0.655
Gloucester Schooner CBH 0.695
If both took 4 hours for a race, LS's corrected time would be 157.2 mins
Gloucester (folding) schooners would be 166.8 mins
and LS would win on h/cap as slower boat.
So I guess it's official, FS is faster. See next post from me....
To confuse the issue totally, however, the Goolwa Regatta Club has
shunted the LS in with cruising boats and the FS in with racing
dinghies, labelled Bolger 30, with a yardstick of 0.999 which is not
the same as the CBH although it's applied to elapsed time in the same
manner. Attempting comparison, the Bosun Dinghy used by Sea Scouts
worldwide has a benchmark of 0.667 (slower than the proverbial), a
Drascombe Lugger 0.550, Flying Dutchman 1.053, 18 ft skiff (Grand Prix
racing) 1.136.
Says something for the fear of Bolger schooners now instilled in the
conventional boat world, doesn't it? ;-)
Tim & FLying Tadpole
BO>>
BO>> BO>Chuck C.
BO>>
BO>> Actually, I'd debate that. In terms of hull speed, of course,it has to
BO>>
BO>> Tim & Flying Tadpole
OK, having recovered from the ravages of races:
CBH = Class-Based Handicap. You multiply the elapsed (race) time to get
the corrected (handicap included) time. (Yachting SA, AYF, ISAF)
Light Schooner CBH 0.655
Gloucester Schooner CBH 0.695
If both took 4 hours for a race, LS's corrected time would be 157.2 mins
Gloucester (folding) schooners would be 166.8 mins
and LS would win on h/cap as slower boat.
So I guess it's official, FS is faster. See next post from me....
To confuse the issue totally, however, the Goolwa Regatta Club has
shunted the LS in with cruising boats and the FS in with racing
dinghies, labelled Bolger 30, with a yardstick of 0.999 which is not
the same as the CBH although it's applied to elapsed time in the same
manner. Attempting comparison, the Bosun Dinghy used by Sea Scouts
worldwide has a benchmark of 0.667 (slower than the proverbial), a
Drascombe Lugger 0.550, Flying Dutchman 1.053, 18 ft skiff (Grand Prix
racing) 1.136.
Says something for the fear of Bolger schooners now instilled in the
conventional boat world, doesn't it? ;-)
Tim & FLying Tadpole
BO>Keep in mind I said "suppose to be faster," and this was based on several
BO>things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
BO>memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
BO>that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS.
Blush. =Hull= speed, =hull= speed...
Tim &FT2
BO>things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
BO>memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
BO>that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS.
Blush. =Hull= speed, =hull= speed...
Tim &FT2
BO>Keep in mind I said "suppose to be faster," and this was based on several
BO>things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
BO>memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
BO>that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS.
Blush. =Hull= speed, =hull= speed...
Tim &FT2
BO>things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
BO>memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
BO>that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS.
Blush. =Hull= speed, =hull= speed...
Tim &FT2
BO>Around a triangular course or even windward/leeward, I'd actually have to
BO>put my money on the FS in medium (non-planing) air, LS in light air (sail
BO>area vs. displacement), but the really interesting one would be HEAVY air.
BO>Also, there should be a drag race from a standing start over, say 1 mile,
BO>broad reaching, to determine the true speed demon.
BO>Robert & Amy Lundy
Smart schooner skippers stay off triangular courses :). Definition of
"air" is needed here: rarely do we end up sailing in what PCB's full
sail plans or Admiral Beaufort regard as "light air" or "medium air".
Most of the time, start at 12 knots at the light end....
FWIW, the fastest we've run the LS was a beam reach of a flat 15 minutes
clocked over a 4 nautical mile measured distance (beacon to beacon), and
for the first 5 minutes or so of that we were below hull speed; work it
out. Never again. The helmsman became unhinged when he turned the
corner and had to beat 9 miles across the lake into the dead foul wind
that allowed that sort of speed on a reach in protected waters. The 9
miles were done in 4 hours....
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO>put my money on the FS in medium (non-planing) air, LS in light air (sail
BO>area vs. displacement), but the really interesting one would be HEAVY air.
BO>Also, there should be a drag race from a standing start over, say 1 mile,
BO>broad reaching, to determine the true speed demon.
BO>Robert & Amy Lundy
Smart schooner skippers stay off triangular courses :). Definition of
"air" is needed here: rarely do we end up sailing in what PCB's full
sail plans or Admiral Beaufort regard as "light air" or "medium air".
Most of the time, start at 12 knots at the light end....
FWIW, the fastest we've run the LS was a beam reach of a flat 15 minutes
clocked over a 4 nautical mile measured distance (beacon to beacon), and
for the first 5 minutes or so of that we were below hull speed; work it
out. Never again. The helmsman became unhinged when he turned the
corner and had to beat 9 miles across the lake into the dead foul wind
that allowed that sort of speed on a reach in protected waters. The 9
miles were done in 4 hours....
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO> The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
BO> Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
BO>
BO> >>
BO>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
BO>Chuck C.
Actually, I'd debate that. In terms of hull speed, of course,it has to
be, but these boats reach their top speeds on the plane, where other
aspects come into play. In terms of power (sail-area)/weight ratio, I
think the LS has to be ahead. Also in terms of somewhere to place the
(human) ballast, the part decked LS is streets ahead! Mind you, a
non-folding folding schooner is likely to be a truly terrifying water
lance...
Tim & Flying Tadpole
PS Many years ago, tiring of thrashing trailer sailors in races,
shooting fish in barrels and other low skill boring activities, we
challenged the local folding schooner to some match racing.
Unfortunately it never eventuated. We'll see if we can renew
thecahllenge now the FS is coming back to life...or perhaps some of the
US multitude of both could get together....
BO> Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
BO>
BO> >>
BO>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
BO>Chuck C.
Actually, I'd debate that. In terms of hull speed, of course,it has to
be, but these boats reach their top speeds on the plane, where other
aspects come into play. In terms of power (sail-area)/weight ratio, I
think the LS has to be ahead. Also in terms of somewhere to place the
(human) ballast, the part decked LS is streets ahead! Mind you, a
non-folding folding schooner is likely to be a truly terrifying water
lance...
Tim & Flying Tadpole
PS Many years ago, tiring of thrashing trailer sailors in races,
shooting fish in barrels and other low skill boring activities, we
challenged the local folding schooner to some match racing.
Unfortunately it never eventuated. We'll see if we can renew
thecahllenge now the FS is coming back to life...or perhaps some of the
US multitude of both could get together....
> What makes sense to me is a "Build the new Instant Schooner" book. IfI'm not sure what a "modern lite scooner" is, but you should take a
> enough interest is shown a lobby (whine) effort could be started.
look at John's Sharpie from Chesapeake Light Craft - it's a "cat
schooner" or more properly a periauger-rigged 19 foot daggerboard boat
(one or two have been built with leeboards, I think). That is the masts
and sails are identical.
If you ask John Harris (who designed it) he'll readily admit the Bolger
influence, it's also a little bit like a monster racing dinghy. I've
sailed in the CLC demo boat a lot, and I like it quite a bit. Unlike a
Lite S, one person can sail this boat if they are reasonably adept and
rig a few little help things like a tiller comb.
It's a little smaller and much lighter than a lite scooner, just-a-tad
too big to be in the cartopping class, but definitely in the "very
light trailer class", and it can be capsized, like other high
performance sharpies <grin>.
> Well, been looking at the schooner conversations and thinking:An interesting idea, a "gang" commision. In practice it might be a hard
>
> Maybe we can "pass the hat" for a new daysailing schooner design...
to manage. There would have to be a pricipal who would be taking on a
finacial risk as well as investing a lot of management time. Those who
participated would be expecting plans but would also still owe a
royalty fee.
What makes sense to me is a " Build the new Instant Schooner" book. If
enough interest is shown a lobby (whine) effort could be started.
"jack bearden" wrote:
Scooner and Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is
welcome to participate.
> SWBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcomepilgrims from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light
Scooner and Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is
welcome to participate.
> jeb back in the heart of winter on the shores of FundyWhen and where? Phil Lea
>
It amounted to a lucky windshift (or a really good weather service). Cayard
knows his boat is slower so will go out of his way to take a risk like
splitting tacks and not sailing a conservative race.
CPCorreia@...wrote:
knows his boat is slower so will go out of his way to take a risk like
splitting tacks and not sailing a conservative race.
CPCorreia@...wrote:
> In a message dated 1/27/00 3:24:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>pippobianco@...writes:
>
> << If only they could stop spotting and smiling at the girls in the
> spectator's boats and concentrate on the race... Gee, they wasted an
> advantage of more than 2 minutes...
> >>
>
> Pippo,
>
> Sorry to here about the flu, may it pass quickly.
>
> I heard it said that you can always find another race, but a good woman is
> rare!
>
> Chuck C.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Check out your group's private Chat room
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In a message dated 1/27/00 3:24:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pippobianco@...writes:
<< If only they could stop spotting and smiling at the girls in the
spectator's boats and concentrate on the race... Gee, they wasted an
advantage of more than 2 minutes...
Sorry to here about the flu, may it pass quickly.
I heard it said that you can always find another race, but a good woman is
rare!
Chuck C.
pippobianco@...writes:
<< If only they could stop spotting and smiling at the girls in the
spectator's boats and concentrate on the race... Gee, they wasted an
advantage of more than 2 minutes...
>>Pippo,
Sorry to here about the flu, may it pass quickly.
I heard it said that you can always find another race, but a good woman is
rare!
Chuck C.
Hi Chuck (1 to 1, and about there for the third regatta...)
CPCorreia@...ha scritto:
even think about sailing by now... Maybe tomorrow morning if the regatta
goes well...
spectator's boats and concentrate on the race... Gee, they wasted an
advantage of more than 2 minutes...
Best, Pippo
CPCorreia@...ha scritto:
> I'm sorry Tim, you could not be involved with the first race as you would beYes, here I am... However I'm in the third day of a bad flu, so I cannot
> considered a professional. We would however make you the official judge of
> the event, and you could have another crew sail your boat. Perhaps Pippo
> could scratch together a crew and sail your boat, as I'm sure you know those
> Italians are great sailors.
even think about sailing by now... Maybe tomorrow morning if the regatta
goes well...
> Hanging tough with AmericaOne, but boy I love those guys on Prada.If only they could stop spotting and smiling at the girls in the
spectator's boats and concentrate on the race... Gee, they wasted an
advantage of more than 2 minutes...
Best, Pippo
><< WBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrimsparticipate.
>from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and
>Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to
>The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner. >>Maybe seems like that to you, but Peter Bevan and Leonie Poor (Birdwatcher
>
>Now that really is a long ways!
>
>Chuck C.
owners) from Perth, Scotland have been there TWICE! (They must have enjoyed
it immensely the first time).
Bill
Sorry for lame url. It should read:http://fox.nstn.ca/~mahonbay/mbwbf.html
in other words drop the "e" in mahonebay.
jeb at low tide on the Fundy shore
in other words drop the "e" in mahonebay.
jeb at low tide on the Fundy shore
Not sure of exact dates for 2000 festival, but end of July - beginning Aug. is usual time. Five day event, starting mid week, running through weekend. Two races per day with wide range of other events going on through days and evenings. The website is not updated for next summer yet, but check it out for the general idea.http://fox.nstn.ca/~mahonebay/mbwbf.html
jeb in the dark on the Fundy shore (I think)
jeb in the dark on the Fundy shore (I think)
Well, the LS has a 1/2" bottom to start, plus decks.
I'm in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Gregg Carlson
At 01:12 PM 1/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
I'm in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Gregg Carlson
At 01:12 PM 1/27/2000 EST, you wrote:
> Is the Folding Scooner essentially "deckless"? I will have to study FS inweight
> more detail as it appears quite a number are being built instead of the LS.
> I assumed it was a heavier boat due to the connection, but maybe that's not
> true.
>
> My LS couldn't weigh more than 4-500 pounds, so I think the materials used
> must make a significant difference. To that end, I think the sails and
> foils will also be important, especially to windward performance. I've
> been thinking about finding or shaping a deep centerboard.
>
> Too bad we're so far apart; a schooner race would be great fun.
> >>
>Greg,
>
>The FS is deckless, my FS is 1/4" all around. I do not know the exact
>of the boat, only that is was originally calculated to be just over 400lbs.
>I did not build this boat, I am only finishing it off, however, the builderThe
>before he inherited a Rafiki 37 and took off on an around the world cruise,
>built this boat according to plans with a fanatical eye to light weight.
>spars are sitka spruce and are real beauties, very light. I would guessthat
>this boat, even with the glass on the bottom to the chine log, will weigh inRaces
>at just under 400 lbs. He used doug fir marine grade ply.
>
>As soon as I get the chance, I'll weigh it.
>
>Perhaps some time in the future we could have the 1st Biannual Schooner
>with some cash prizes that would entice all the FS and LS's to getinvolved.
>I'm sorry Tim, you could not be involved with the first race as you would beThis
>considered a professional. We would however make you the official judge of
>the event, and you could have another crew sail your boat. Perhaps Pippo
>could scratch together a crew and sail your boat, as I'm sure you know those
>Italians are great sailors.
>
>I plan on ordering a sail kit from Sailrite, the estimate is some $500.
>should produce a nice set of sails. The builder did not build in the
>designed bilgeboards as he was planning on sailing in Alaska, with its many
>rocks near the surface. Instead he built side boards that pivot, up out of
>the way. He had not quite figured out how to attach them, and this is the
>biggest project I have left on the boat.
>
>Where are you located?
>
>Hanging tough with AmericaOne, but boy I love those guys on Prada.
>Chuck C.
>
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>
>
I don't see any problem trailering the LS...Parking indoors might be a
problem.
Gregg C.
At 10:22 AM 1/27/2000 -0800, you wrote:
problem.
Gregg C.
At 10:22 AM 1/27/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>An interesting discussion.
>Has anyone modified (oop's I used the "M" word)a FS to include the
>decks and other LS features? Update it as it were. It has to be easier
>to trailer 15'6" than 24'.
>
>
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FYI, there are schooner races also in the spring in coastal Alabama at the
Wooden Boat festival near Lillian...
Gregg Carlson
At 04:40 PM 1/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:
Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to
participate. The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner.
Wooden Boat festival near Lillian...
Gregg Carlson
At 04:40 PM 1/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Jack,from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and
> what are the dates of the festival?
>
>Jack Bearden wrote:
>
>> SWBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrims
Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to
participate. The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner.
>>
>> jeb back in the heart of winter on the shores of Fundy
>>
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Jack,
what are the dates of the festival?
Jack Bearden wrote:
what are the dates of the festival?
Jack Bearden wrote:
> SWBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrims from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to participate. The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner.
>
> jeb back in the heart of winter on the shores of Fundy
>
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Well, been looking at the schooner conversations and thinking:
Maybe we can "pass the hat" for a new daysailing schooner design...
Some combination of the singlehander, folding and light schooner,
with the sail area/displacement ratio of the light schooner, the
trailerability of the folding schooner, and the ability to be
single-handed under some pretty subset of the full rig. While we are at
it we could ask for the ability to deal with sudden shallow areas in a
matter that does not amuse the jet-skiers.... (Sudden stops due to
stuck dagger/lee/bilgeboards are only funny on the shore later.....)
How about it folks, enough interest?
DGO
Maybe we can "pass the hat" for a new daysailing schooner design...
Some combination of the singlehander, folding and light schooner,
with the sail area/displacement ratio of the light schooner, the
trailerability of the folding schooner, and the ability to be
single-handed under some pretty subset of the full rig. While we are at
it we could ask for the ability to deal with sudden shallow areas in a
matter that does not amuse the jet-skiers.... (Sudden stops due to
stuck dagger/lee/bilgeboards are only funny on the shore later.....)
How about it folks, enough interest?
DGO
In a message dated 1/27/00 12:04:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
BeardeJE@...writes:
<< WBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrims
from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and
Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to participate.
The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner. >>
Now that really is a long ways!
Chuck C.
BeardeJE@...writes:
<< WBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrims
from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and
Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to participate.
The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner. >>
Now that really is a long ways!
Chuck C.
SWBANS (Small Wooden Boat Assoc. of Nova Scotia) would welcome pilgrims from far and wide to the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival Light Scooner and Wind Sprint races. Anything vaguely "Bolgeresque" is welcome to participate. The appearance of a FS would be a real head turner.
jeb back in the heart of winter on the shores of Fundy
jeb back in the heart of winter on the shores of Fundy
An interesting discussion.
Has anyone modified (oop's I used the "M" word)a FS to include the
decks and other LS features? Update it as it were. It has to be easier
to trailer 15'6" than 24'.
Has anyone modified (oop's I used the "M" word)a FS to include the
decks and other LS features? Update it as it were. It has to be easier
to trailer 15'6" than 24'.
In a message dated 1/27/00 9:36:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ghartc@...writes:
<<
Is the Folding Scooner essentially "deckless"? I will have to study FS in
more detail as it appears quite a number are being built instead of the LS.
I assumed it was a heavier boat due to the connection, but maybe that's not
true.
My LS couldn't weigh more than 4-500 pounds, so I think the materials used
must make a significant difference. To that end, I think the sails and
foils will also be important, especially to windward performance. I've
been thinking about finding or shaping a deep centerboard.
Too bad we're so far apart; a schooner race would be great fun.
The FS is deckless, my FS is 1/4" all around. I do not know the exact weight
of the boat, only that is was originally calculated to be just over 400 lbs.
I did not build this boat, I am only finishing it off, however, the builder
before he inherited a Rafiki 37 and took off on an around the world cruise,
built this boat according to plans with a fanatical eye to light weight. The
spars are sitka spruce and are real beauties, very light. I would guess that
this boat, even with the glass on the bottom to the chine log, will weigh in
at just under 400 lbs. He used doug fir marine grade ply.
As soon as I get the chance, I'll weigh it.
Perhaps some time in the future we could have the 1st Biannual Schooner Races
with some cash prizes that would entice all the FS and LS's to get involved.
I'm sorry Tim, you could not be involved with the first race as you would be
considered a professional. We would however make you the official judge of
the event, and you could have another crew sail your boat. Perhaps Pippo
could scratch together a crew and sail your boat, as I'm sure you know those
Italians are great sailors.
I plan on ordering a sail kit from Sailrite, the estimate is some $500. This
should produce a nice set of sails. The builder did not build in the
designed bilgeboards as he was planning on sailing in Alaska, with its many
rocks near the surface. Instead he built side boards that pivot, up out of
the way. He had not quite figured out how to attach them, and this is the
biggest project I have left on the boat.
Where are you located?
Hanging tough with AmericaOne, but boy I love those guys on Prada.
Chuck C.
ghartc@...writes:
<<
Is the Folding Scooner essentially "deckless"? I will have to study FS in
more detail as it appears quite a number are being built instead of the LS.
I assumed it was a heavier boat due to the connection, but maybe that's not
true.
My LS couldn't weigh more than 4-500 pounds, so I think the materials used
must make a significant difference. To that end, I think the sails and
foils will also be important, especially to windward performance. I've
been thinking about finding or shaping a deep centerboard.
Too bad we're so far apart; a schooner race would be great fun.
>>Greg,
The FS is deckless, my FS is 1/4" all around. I do not know the exact weight
of the boat, only that is was originally calculated to be just over 400 lbs.
I did not build this boat, I am only finishing it off, however, the builder
before he inherited a Rafiki 37 and took off on an around the world cruise,
built this boat according to plans with a fanatical eye to light weight. The
spars are sitka spruce and are real beauties, very light. I would guess that
this boat, even with the glass on the bottom to the chine log, will weigh in
at just under 400 lbs. He used doug fir marine grade ply.
As soon as I get the chance, I'll weigh it.
Perhaps some time in the future we could have the 1st Biannual Schooner Races
with some cash prizes that would entice all the FS and LS's to get involved.
I'm sorry Tim, you could not be involved with the first race as you would be
considered a professional. We would however make you the official judge of
the event, and you could have another crew sail your boat. Perhaps Pippo
could scratch together a crew and sail your boat, as I'm sure you know those
Italians are great sailors.
I plan on ordering a sail kit from Sailrite, the estimate is some $500. This
should produce a nice set of sails. The builder did not build in the
designed bilgeboards as he was planning on sailing in Alaska, with its many
rocks near the surface. Instead he built side boards that pivot, up out of
the way. He had not quite figured out how to attach them, and this is the
biggest project I have left on the boat.
Where are you located?
Hanging tough with AmericaOne, but boy I love those guys on Prada.
Chuck C.
Chuck,
Is the Folding Scooner essentially "deckless"? I will have to study FS in
more detail as it appears quite a number are being built instead of the LS.
I assumed it was a heavier boat due to the connection, but maybe that's not
true.
My LS couldn't weigh more than 4-500 pounds, so I think the materials used
must make a significant difference. To that end, I think the sails and
foils will also be important, especially to windward performance. I've
been thinking about finding or shaping a deep centerboard.
Too bad we're so far apart; a schooner race would be great fun.
Best,
Gregg Carlson
At 11:57 PM 1/26/2000 EST, you wrote:
Is the Folding Scooner essentially "deckless"? I will have to study FS in
more detail as it appears quite a number are being built instead of the LS.
I assumed it was a heavier boat due to the connection, but maybe that's not
true.
My LS couldn't weigh more than 4-500 pounds, so I think the materials used
must make a significant difference. To that end, I think the sails and
foils will also be important, especially to windward performance. I've
been thinking about finding or shaping a deep centerboard.
Too bad we're so far apart; a schooner race would be great fun.
Best,
Gregg Carlson
At 11:57 PM 1/26/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Greg,etc.
>
>Keep in mind I said "suppose to be faster," and this was based on several
>things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
>memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
>that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS. This is not to disparrage
>the LS which is a more subtancial boat in some ways, ie. able to dip a rail
>without shipping great quantities of water as a result of the deck area,
> Further, I reasoned that (no doubt the weakest link) that with the longer
>waterline, and lighter weight, the FS would have a speed advantage. Of
>course, the LS isn't quite as likely to jackknife on you either. My FS will
>be in sailing trim by spring and I would love to test out this hypothesis.
>Are you planning to bring your LS to the San Francisco Bay any time?
>
>Excited about AmericaOne's victory today,
>Chuck C.
>
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>Just thinking of it almost makes me come unhinged (oooo...that is one awfulWho - me?
>pun. Should've waited on Mr. Samson for that one :) )
>
Bill :?
Greg,
Keep in mind I said "suppose to be faster," and this was based on several
things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS. This is not to disparrage
the LS which is a more subtancial boat in some ways, ie. able to dip a rail
without shipping great quantities of water as a result of the deck area, etc.
Further, I reasoned that (no doubt the weakest link) that with the longer
waterline, and lighter weight, the FS would have a speed advantage. Of
course, the LS isn't quite as likely to jackknife on you either. My FS will
be in sailing trim by spring and I would love to test out this hypothesis.
Are you planning to bring your LS to the San Francisco Bay any time?
Excited about AmericaOne's victory today,
Chuck C.
Keep in mind I said "suppose to be faster," and this was based on several
things. First, in some of my communications with Tim (Tim correct me if my
memory is wrong) of the Light Schooner website, indicated that he reasoned
that the FS was suppose to be faster than the LS. This is not to disparrage
the LS which is a more subtancial boat in some ways, ie. able to dip a rail
without shipping great quantities of water as a result of the deck area, etc.
Further, I reasoned that (no doubt the weakest link) that with the longer
waterline, and lighter weight, the FS would have a speed advantage. Of
course, the LS isn't quite as likely to jackknife on you either. My FS will
be in sailing trim by spring and I would love to test out this hypothesis.
Are you planning to bring your LS to the San Francisco Bay any time?
Excited about AmericaOne's victory today,
Chuck C.
You know, this is one of those debates that has more merit than average.
Everyone who sails has at some point been outgunned by a longer waterline
attached to a pudgy hull and sails that look like yesterday's laundry.
Usually in light/medium airs.
The FS vs LS takes a different tack-which SAILBOAT would be faster on plane!
Around a triangular course or even windward/leeward, I'd actually have to
put my money on the FS in medium (non-planing) air, LS in light air (sail
area vs. displacement), but the really interesting one would be HEAVY air.
Also, there should be a drag race from a standing start over, say 1 mile,
broad reaching, to determine the true speed demon.
Just thinking of it almost makes me come unhinged (oooo...that is one awful
pun. Should've waited on Mr. Samson for that one :) )
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
Everyone who sails has at some point been outgunned by a longer waterline
attached to a pudgy hull and sails that look like yesterday's laundry.
Usually in light/medium airs.
The FS vs LS takes a different tack-which SAILBOAT would be faster on plane!
Around a triangular course or even windward/leeward, I'd actually have to
put my money on the FS in medium (non-planing) air, LS in light air (sail
area vs. displacement), but the really interesting one would be HEAVY air.
Also, there should be a drag race from a standing start over, say 1 mile,
broad reaching, to determine the true speed demon.
Just thinking of it almost makes me come unhinged (oooo...that is one awful
pun. Should've waited on Mr. Samson for that one :) )
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
> -----Original Message-----
> From:tjfatchen@...[mailto:tjfatchen@...]
> Sent: January 27, 2000 4:51 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: modern Light Scooner
>
>
>
> BO> The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
> BO> Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
> BO>
> BO> >>
> BO>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
>
> BO>Chuck C.
>
> Actually, I'd debate that. In terms of hull speed, of course,it has to
> be, but these boats reach their top speeds on the plane, where other
> aspects come into play. In terms of power (sail-area)/weight ratio, I
> think the LS has to be ahead. Also in terms of somewhere to place the
> (human) ballast, the part decked LS is streets ahead! Mind you, a
> non-folding folding schooner is likely to be a truly terrifying water
> lance...
>
> Tim & Flying Tadpole
>
> PS Many years ago, tiring of thrashing trailer sailors in races,
> shooting fish in barrels and other low skill boring activities, we
> challenged the local folding schooner to some match racing.
> Unfortunately it never eventuated. We'll see if we can renew
> thecahllenge now the FS is coming back to life...or perhaps some of the
> US multitude of both could get together....
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Really!? What leads you to say so?
Gregg C.
At 06:06 PM 1/26/2000 EST, you wrote:
Gregg C.
At 06:06 PM 1/26/2000 EST, you wrote:
> The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
> Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
>
> >>
>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
>
>Chuck C.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from
>anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a
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In a message dated 1/26/00 11:18:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
richard@...writes:
<<
The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
Chuck C.
richard@...writes:
<<
The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
>>The folding schooner is suppose to be faster than the light schooner.
Chuck C.
Someone here mentioned that the Light Scooner design was over 20 years
old.
Does anyone know if PB&F have updated the design or designed a new
version since the original came out?
The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?
old.
Does anyone know if PB&F have updated the design or designed a new
version since the original came out?
The LS is supposed to be "faster than anything but a C class cat".
Anybody know of other PB&F designs in the same speed class?