Re: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher Hull -- Schooner Rig
In the big races they sleep while they sail while the
machine stears the course. One of these folks
mentioned that when he took the helm to enter the
harbour it was the first time he had touched the thing
in 20 days or whatever. But your right this does not
imply sail handling just stearing. Are we talking
here about having every line replicated to both
healms? Sounds like fun.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
That's not sailing, that's motoring. Or do you have a
GPS that detects <BR>
and corrects wind direction and sail trim? In that
case, no need to be <BR>
on board. However, it is my understanding from
previous messages that <BR>
futabachan already has RC sailing craft, and they are
not sufficient. <BR>
However, I bet an RC I60 would be very competitive in
our local RC <BR>
enduro event if we moved the buoys a bit further
apart.<BR>
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell
<proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:<BR>
</tt>
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machine stears the course. One of these folks
mentioned that when he took the helm to enter the
harbour it was the first time he had touched the thing
in 20 days or whatever. But your right this does not
imply sail handling just stearing. Are we talking
here about having every line replicated to both
healms? Sounds like fun.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
That's not sailing, that's motoring. Or do you have a
GPS that detects <BR>
and corrects wind direction and sail trim? In that
case, no need to be <BR>
on board. However, it is my understanding from
previous messages that <BR>
futabachan already has RC sailing craft, and they are
not sufficient. <BR>
However, I bet an RC I60 would be very competitive in
our local RC <BR>
enduro event if we moved the buoys a bit further
apart.<BR>
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell
<proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:<BR>
> In the world of around the world sailers usinggps<BR>
> compliant self stearing units, isn't aninside<BR>
> stearing center just a few bolts away? Thisstuff<BR>
> (Autohelm)is relatively cheap, and uses mostlysystems<BR>
> you may already have aboard.<BR><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
</tt>
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That's not sailing, that's motoring. Or do you have a GPS that detects
and corrects wind direction and sail trim? In that case, no need to be
on board. However, it is my understanding from previous messages that
futabachan already has RC sailing craft, and they are not sufficient.
However, I bet an RC I60 would be very competitive in our local RC
enduro event if we moved the buoys a bit further apart.
and corrects wind direction and sail trim? In that case, no need to be
on board. However, it is my understanding from previous messages that
futabachan already has RC sailing craft, and they are not sufficient.
However, I bet an RC I60 would be very competitive in our local RC
enduro event if we moved the buoys a bit further apart.
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> In the world of around the world sailers using gps
> compliant self stearing units, isn't an inside
> stearing center just a few bolts away? This stuff
> (Autohelm)is relatively cheap, and uses mostly systems
> you may already have aboard.
>
>
I agreee with you Susan: None of us should feel any
pressure to build every boat mentioned on the list.;o)
---
I actually think that the boat is pretty,<BR>
but A) I can't get past the steering gear, and B) with
the I60 on<BR>
the way, it doesn't really fit into my
inventory....<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
Susan
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pressure to build every boat mentioned on the list.;o)
---
I actually think that the boat is pretty,<BR>
but A) I can't get past the steering gear, and B) with
the I60 on<BR>
the way, it doesn't really fit into my
inventory....<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
Susan
______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE!http://personals.yahoo.ca
In the world of around the world sailers using gps
compliant self stearing units, isn't an inside
stearing center just a few bolts away? This stuff
(Autohelm)is relatively cheap, and uses mostly systems
you may already have aboard.
--- futabachan <futabachan@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
That was my reaction to the video, too -- I'm starting
to think<BR>
that the inside steering station is a bigger deal than
the double<BR>
berth. It was the Layden Paradox that turned me
on to the whole<BR>
Birdwatcher concept, and having inside steering on the
I60 would<BR>
let the boat fulfill the "all-weather"
mission that made the <BR>
Paradox so compelling -- rather than May to September
sailing,<BR>
I could keep sailing until the lake freezes, and put
in again<BR>
as soon as it thaws, which is a big, big win.<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
Susan Davis <futabachan@...><BR>
<BR>
</tt>
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compliant self stearing units, isn't an inside
stearing center just a few bolts away? This stuff
(Autohelm)is relatively cheap, and uses mostly systems
you may already have aboard.
--- futabachan <futabachan@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
> But the more I've <BR>about the cabin, and <BR>
> thought about it, the more excited I've become
> the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give meand Sue an inside <BR>
> steering station.<BR><BR>
That was my reaction to the video, too -- I'm starting
to think<BR>
that the inside steering station is a bigger deal than
the double<BR>
berth. It was the Layden Paradox that turned me
on to the whole<BR>
Birdwatcher concept, and having inside steering on the
I60 would<BR>
let the boat fulfill the "all-weather"
mission that made the <BR>
Paradox so compelling -- rather than May to September
sailing,<BR>
I could keep sailing until the lake freezes, and put
in again<BR>
as soon as it thaws, which is a big, big win.<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
Susan Davis <futabachan@...><BR>
<BR>
</tt>
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topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
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> But the more I'veThat was my reaction to the video, too -- I'm starting to think
> thought about it, the more excited I've become about the cabin, and
> the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give me and Sue an inside
> steering station.
that the inside steering station is a bigger deal than the double
berth. It was the Layden Paradox that turned me on to the whole
Birdwatcher concept, and having inside steering on the I60 would
let the boat fulfill the "all-weather" mission that made the
Paradox so compelling -- rather than May to September sailing,
I could keep sailing until the lake freezes, and put in again
as soon as it thaws, which is a big, big win.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> David's comments about his Light Schooner do raise the question:Perhaps because there are other PCB designs out there that do the
> why has PCB not designed a less audacious rig for this proven boat?
job of a hypothetical less-canvassed Scooner just as well or better?
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Based on the costs of the LS, I couldEven with that funky steering gear? That's what does it for me
> build a Birdwatcher for about $800, not counting the windows.
about the Birdwatcher -- I actually think that the boat is pretty,
but A) I can't get past the steering gear, and B) with the I60 on
the way, it doesn't really fit into my inventory....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Why not go with WDJ? I guess IThe photos of the Jochems Schooner on the web seem to catch the
> don't find it a very attractive boat (I'm trying to recall where I
> saw it last on the web, but I know that it has been some time and
> all I can call to mind is the horrid specter of the BW cabin which
> I find repulsive).
boat at a rather unflattering angle. My initial impression of
the boat from the web was that it was hideously ugly; after
watching the video and seeing it from other angles, it's not so
bad, though the combination of the big cabin and the leeboards
is a bit of an acquired taste....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
The Birdwatcher started to become beautiful in my eyes when I started
sailing the LSME with the light toddler Margaret Ellen. I love going
out with her, but won't do it singlehanded regardless how light the
wind, or when the water's not warm. We've already missed too many
days because we were short handed, too much wind, or water too cold.
It became very easy to imagine how contented the two of us would be
cruising around the lake in the lightly canvassed, weather-shielded,
self-righting Birdwatcher. She could bring a mess of toy and have
plenty of room to play with them, and I could be a relatively
inattentive sailor. Rather than the four months of dad/daughter
sailing the LS gives me, I could probably get 8-9 months in the
Birdwatcher. It might not be too reckless for us do to some coasting
when the wind was onshore too. Based on the costs of the LS, I could
build a Birdwatcher for about $800, not counting the windows. That's
a lot of capacity for the investment!
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
sailing the LSME with the light toddler Margaret Ellen. I love going
out with her, but won't do it singlehanded regardless how light the
wind, or when the water's not warm. We've already missed too many
days because we were short handed, too much wind, or water too cold.
It became very easy to imagine how contented the two of us would be
cruising around the lake in the lightly canvassed, weather-shielded,
self-righting Birdwatcher. She could bring a mess of toy and have
plenty of room to play with them, and I could be a relatively
inattentive sailor. Rather than the four months of dad/daughter
sailing the LS gives me, I could probably get 8-9 months in the
Birdwatcher. It might not be too reckless for us do to some coasting
when the wind was onshore too. Based on the costs of the LS, I could
build a Birdwatcher for about $800, not counting the windows. That's
a lot of capacity for the investment!
YIBB,
David
>David, I was the one who finds the BW cabin was repulsive. Perhaps itC.E.P.
>is simply a matter that the beauty of its functionality has not
>penetrated by barbarian soul.Nevertheless, when you and Susan Launch
>your I60s at the Lake Champlain Messabout in 200?, I am going to be
>there to see that if the Good Lord's willin' and the creeks don't
>rise!
>
>Dennis Marshall, Grand Rapids, MI
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> Judge Jochems originally came to PCP with a proposal for modifying
>> the Whalewatcher (the good judge is a tall fellow.) The Jochems
>> Schooner was the result.
>>
>> Someone mentioned they found the Birdwatcher repulsive. I felt the
>> same way at first, finding the boat even less appealing than boxes
>> like the Micro, AS29, and LooseMooseII. I think the reason I could
>> accept the boxes is because I understood what I was getting in
>> exchange for unconventional looks. Until you've seen what it's like
>> inside the Jochems (and presumably the Birdwatcher as well) it's
>> quite hard to understand what that odd glass house gives you.
>>
>> The I60 helped me make the leap because of her generous cockpit and
>> foredeck areas, both exposed to sun and salt air. But the more I've
>> thought about it, the more excited I've become about the cabin, and
>> the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give me and Sue an inside
>> steering station.
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>> >Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever built
>> >and if there was - is a photo available? It was an extended
>> >Birdwatcher with a lugsail yawl setup something like MJ. Leeboards,
>> >tabernacle and square sided... Pure Bolger. In fact a refined
>version
>> >of Pointer in some respects....Nels
>> >
>> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
>> >> >Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
>> >>
>> >> The Boat Jochems was offered with both a cat-yawl and schooner
>rig.
>> >> Judge Jochems opted for the schooner rig because it kept the
>spar
>> >> length within the overall length of the boat.
>> >>
>> >> With a cat-yawl version you'd get that second mast out in the
>back
>> >of
>> >> the boat, rather than smack in the middle of the cabin. Perhaps
>> >that
>> >> would get the masts back on centerline!.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> C.E.P.
>> >> 415 W.46th Street
>> >> New York, New York 10036
>> >>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> >> (212) 247-0296
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bolger rules!!!
>> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>> >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
>like
>> >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>> >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>David's comments about his Light Schooner do raise the question: whyI think the Light Scooner is strong evidence that PCB is more than
>has PCB not designed a less audacious rig for this proven boat?
>
capable of putting looks ahead of other considerations. Note the
sprit, just like a real schooner. Note the main boom well back of the
transom, not a feature you'll see on many modern boat. The Light
Scooner is meant to be enjoyed in spite of (and because of) it's less
than totally rational design.
As far as less audacious rigs, two come stock: reefed main and jib,
or foresail alone (nasty lee helm). It wouldn't take a very clever
fellow to figure out how to do a deeply reefed main and fore ala the
single-handed schooner.
Speaking of real schooners, Margaret and I were out at the point last
evening when an olde tyme schooner came round North bar and started
hoisting her sails. When we first caught sight of her she was flying
her jib and foresail and then added her fore staysaila and main and
she beat to the West. I'd guess she was 70-80 feet on the waterline
and and had a 20'-25' bowsprit. She was painted greena and had the
word "Sunflower" as a part of her name. What a sight!
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
David, I was the one who finds the BW cabin was repulsive. Perhaps it
is simply a matter that the beauty of its functionality has not
penetrated by barbarian soul.Nevertheless, when you and Susan Launch
your I60s at the Lake Champlain Messabout in 200?, I am going to be
there to see that if the Good Lord's willin' and the creeks don't
rise!
Dennis Marshall, Grand Rapids, MI
is simply a matter that the beauty of its functionality has not
penetrated by barbarian soul.Nevertheless, when you and Susan Launch
your I60s at the Lake Champlain Messabout in 200?, I am going to be
there to see that if the Good Lord's willin' and the creeks don't
rise!
Dennis Marshall, Grand Rapids, MI
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> Judge Jochems originally came to PCP with a proposal for modifying
> the Whalewatcher (the good judge is a tall fellow.) The Jochems
> Schooner was the result.
>
> Someone mentioned they found the Birdwatcher repulsive. I felt the
> same way at first, finding the boat even less appealing than boxes
> like the Micro, AS29, and LooseMooseII. I think the reason I could
> accept the boxes is because I understood what I was getting in
> exchange for unconventional looks. Until you've seen what it's like
> inside the Jochems (and presumably the Birdwatcher as well) it's
> quite hard to understand what that odd glass house gives you.
>
> The I60 helped me make the leap because of her generous cockpit and
> foredeck areas, both exposed to sun and salt air. But the more I've
> thought about it, the more excited I've become about the cabin, and
> the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give me and Sue an inside
> steering station.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> >Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever built
> >and if there was - is a photo available? It was an extended
> >Birdwatcher with a lugsail yawl setup something like MJ. Leeboards,
> >tabernacle and square sided... Pure Bolger. In fact a refined
version
> >of Pointer in some respects....Nels
> >
> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >>
> >> >A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
> >> >Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
> >>
> >> The Boat Jochems was offered with both a cat-yawl and schooner
rig.
> >> Judge Jochems opted for the schooner rig because it kept the
spar
> >> length within the overall length of the boat.
> >>
> >> With a cat-yawl version you'd get that second mast out in the
back
> >of
> >> the boat, rather than smack in the middle of the cabin. Perhaps
> >that
> >> would get the masts back on centerline!.
> >>
> >>
> >> C.E.P.
> >> 415 W.46th Street
> >> New York, New York 10036
> >>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> >> (212) 247-0296
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
> Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever builtI don't, but put me down on the list of people who would like to know
> and if there was - is a photo available?
more. I have spent some time this spring wondering exactly how
seaworthy this boat is, and if she shares the stability problems of
the original MJ design.
On the schooner-rigged Birdwatcher hull, I see the hull will be quite
low-sided without the glass top, but since it should be able to stand
the weight, I would think about some decking. There are two rigs with
125 sq ft (bermudan sprit rig) and 185 sq ft (gunter sloop). In
constrast, the H/H schooner has 126 sq ft and the CE would be lower.
If you started with the H/H rig and made the side of each sail 20%
longer, you would get about 181 sq ft of sail with a CE substantially
lower than the sloop, say about 7 1/2 feet above the lwl as compared
to about 10 ft. Thus only 3/4 of the heeling moment.
David's comments about his Light Schooner do raise the question: why
has PCB not designed a less audacious rig for this proven boat?
Peter
> Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever builtI don't, but put me down on the list of people who would like to know
> and if there was - is a photo available?
more. I have spent some time this spring wondering exactly how
seaworthy this boat is, and if she shares the stability problems of
the original MJ design.
On the schooner-rigged Birdwatcher hull, I see the hull will be quite
low-sided without the glass top, but since it should be able to stand
the weight, I would think about some decking. There are two rigs with
125 sq ft (bermudan sprit rig) and 185 sq ft (gunter sloop). In
constrast, the H/H schooner has 126 sq ft and the CE would be lower.
If you started with the H/H rig and made the side of each sale 20%
longer, you would get about 181 sq ft of sail with a CE substantially
lower than the sloop, say about 7 1/2 feet above the lwl as compared
to about 10 ft. Thus only 3/4 of the heeling moment.
David's comments about his Light Schooner do raise the question: why
has PCB not designed a less audacious rig for this proven boat?
Peter
Judge Jochems originally came to PCP with a proposal for modifying
the Whalewatcher (the good judge is a tall fellow.) The Jochems
Schooner was the result.
Someone mentioned they found the Birdwatcher repulsive. I felt the
same way at first, finding the boat even less appealing than boxes
like the Micro, AS29, and LooseMooseII. I think the reason I could
accept the boxes is because I understood what I was getting in
exchange for unconventional looks. Until you've seen what it's like
inside the Jochems (and presumably the Birdwatcher as well) it's
quite hard to understand what that odd glass house gives you.
The I60 helped me make the leap because of her generous cockpit and
foredeck areas, both exposed to sun and salt air. But the more I've
thought about it, the more excited I've become about the cabin, and
the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give me and Sue an inside
steering station.
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
the Whalewatcher (the good judge is a tall fellow.) The Jochems
Schooner was the result.
Someone mentioned they found the Birdwatcher repulsive. I felt the
same way at first, finding the boat even less appealing than boxes
like the Micro, AS29, and LooseMooseII. I think the reason I could
accept the boxes is because I understood what I was getting in
exchange for unconventional looks. Until you've seen what it's like
inside the Jochems (and presumably the Birdwatcher as well) it's
quite hard to understand what that odd glass house gives you.
The I60 helped me make the leap because of her generous cockpit and
foredeck areas, both exposed to sun and salt air. But the more I've
thought about it, the more excited I've become about the cabin, and
the more I hope PCB&F find a way to give me and Sue an inside
steering station.
YIBB,
David
>Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever builtC.E.P.
>and if there was - is a photo available? It was an extended
>Birdwatcher with a lugsail yawl setup something like MJ. Leeboards,
>tabernacle and square sided... Pure Bolger. In fact a refined version
>of Pointer in some respects....Nels
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>>
>> >A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
>> >Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
>>
>> The Boat Jochems was offered with both a cat-yawl and schooner rig.
>> Judge Jochems opted for the schooner rig because it kept the spar
>> length within the overall length of the boat.
>>
>> With a cat-yawl version you'd get that second mast out in the back
>of
>> the boat, rather than smack in the middle of the cabin. Perhaps
>that
>> would get the masts back on centerline!.
>>
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Does anyone know what happened to Whalewatcher? Was one ever built
and if there was - is a photo available? It was an extended
Birdwatcher with a lugsail yawl setup something like MJ. Leeboards,
tabernacle and square sided... Pure Bolger. In fact a refined version
of Pointer in some respects....Nels
and if there was - is a photo available? It was an extended
Birdwatcher with a lugsail yawl setup something like MJ. Leeboards,
tabernacle and square sided... Pure Bolger. In fact a refined version
of Pointer in some respects....Nels
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> >A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
> >Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
>
> The Boat Jochems was offered with both a cat-yawl and schooner rig.
> Judge Jochems opted for the schooner rig because it kept the spar
> length within the overall length of the boat.
>
> With a cat-yawl version you'd get that second mast out in the back
of
> the boat, rather than smack in the middle of the cabin. Perhaps
that
> would get the masts back on centerline!.
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>I am not a fan of the Birdwatcher cabin. I guess that I am one ofIn BWAOM PCB more than once comments that his Instant Boat double
>those romantics who prefers an open boat to the functionality of the
>BW designs. But, I was thinking, the hull itself would be a great
>platform for a traditional sprits'l schooner rig (ala Rondo II). It
>would be more stable than the Light Schooner, and perhaps a little
>less demanding to sail than the LS or the His and Her Schooner. What
>do you think?
ended hulls are less than ideal sailing shapes, ("It's not an
especially good sailing shape, as the sharp stern loses sail-carrying
power, and the discrepancy between the plan-view curve of the sides
and the profile curve of the bottom generates turbulence...Their main
virtue is that they're spectacularly quick and easy to design and
build without looking boxy")
The LS is a wonderful light air boat. I take my wife, dog and
daughter under full rig in up to about 10 knot of wind. A puff will
sink the lee rail, then the boat responds by surging ahead. Once you
learn to trust she's not going over it's a wonderful rhythm. In
fainter breezes she ghosts along at a surprising pace.
Once the wind gets up she's a handful. Rather than reefing, I go
looking for more live ballast -- preferably in bikinis. I've been
knocked down going to weather with nine (9!) adults all sitting on
the rail. I've also had the boat full plane with six aboard. It's a
powerful rig and a fast hull!
Birdwatcher is only slightly wider than a Light Scooner (5'7" across
the deck vs. 5'0", guessing 4'7" vs. 4'0" at the chine) She does have
a 1/2" thicker bottom. The real difference is the glasshouse and sail
area. Even the sloop-rigged BW is still about 75 ft^2 less than a
schooner flying her staysail, and eye-balling it I think the BW
center of effort is higher.
I don't think you're going to get a meaningfully more docile boat
putting the Scooner rig on the BW hull. A little more with and a
little more ballast won't make it *more* tender, but I think the real
difference is sail area between BW and LS is sail area. Speaking of,
you might also have to modify BW's blade if you increased sail area.
Why not the Folding Schooner. It's longer, hence stiffer and I think
it carries less sail area than the Light Scooner.
BTW : If I had it to do over I'd build either a) the Singlehanded
Schooner or b) the Birdwatcher
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawlThe Boat Jochems was offered with both a cat-yawl and schooner rig.
>Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
Judge Jochems opted for the schooner rig because it kept the spar
length within the overall length of the boat.
With a cat-yawl version you'd get that second mast out in the back of
the boat, rather than smack in the middle of the cabin. Perhaps that
would get the masts back on centerline!.
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
The pictures of
to hike out. For several years he raced it in "Ancient Mariner" type
races in the eastern Santa Barbara Channel and stayed out with the
big boats in normal afternoon 5-6 foot swells with 1-2 foot wind
chop.
His daughter in the forward cockpit did have to duck under the cover
frequently as it's a bit wet. He only knocked it down once, at Dana
Pt, California. That was coming out of a wind shadow into a stiff
breeze whipping over a cliff.
Reed
> Tony Grove's boat in BWOM and Bolger's write-up suggest that itwould
> be a tender boat. Have I misunderstood?I sailed Tony's boat and it handles winds quite well. I felt no need
to hike out. For several years he raced it in "Ancient Mariner" type
races in the eastern Santa Barbara Channel and stayed out with the
big boats in normal afternoon 5-6 foot swells with 1-2 foot wind
chop.
His daughter in the forward cockpit did have to duck under the cover
frequently as it's a bit wet. He only knocked it down once, at Dana
Pt, California. That was coming out of a wind shadow into a stiff
breeze whipping over a cliff.
Reed
> suggest that it wouldI don't know. There is the fairly significant keel. On the other
> be a tender boat. Have I misunderstood?
hand, Bolger does tend for big rigs, reefing and large angles of
heel, as compared to other designers.
The hull of Birdwatcher is quite similar to Centennial II which has
two (2) ballasted keels, and which was said to be a fairly dull
sailer in light air.
Peter
Several thoughts come to mind. Jochems is longer and wider than BW,
with nearly twice the weight, twice the materials cost, and a lot
more labor involved. (BW, after all, has nothing at all built into
her cabin.) BW would be easier to trailer, easier to launch, and
easier to store. It all depends on one's needs and the available
time and budget.
A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
Steve Paskey
with nearly twice the weight, twice the materials cost, and a lot
more labor involved. (BW, after all, has nothing at all built into
her cabin.) BW would be easier to trailer, easier to launch, and
easier to store. It all depends on one's needs and the available
time and budget.
A schooner? Myself, I've occasionally dreamed of a cat-yawl
Birdwatcher with leeboards and an electric auxiliary . . .
Steve Paskey
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
>
> All of which is to agree that the hull has potential. But the
> question does come up: Why not just go for the Jochems schooner?
>
> Peter
Peter, it seems to me, and I may be laboring under a misconception,
but the narrow beam of the His and Her schooner plus its sail area
would make a livelier sail than I think I would like. The pictures of
Tony Grove's boat in BWOM and Bolger's write-up suggest that it would
be a tender boat. Have I misunderstood?
Dennis Marshall
but the narrow beam of the His and Her schooner plus its sail area
would make a livelier sail than I think I would like. The pictures of
Tony Grove's boat in BWOM and Bolger's write-up suggest that it would
be a tender boat. Have I misunderstood?
Dennis Marshall
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> Re-reading your originial post, I came up with another question:
why
> do you think the His/Her schooner would be demanding to sail?
>
> PHV
Re-reading your originial post, I came up with another question: why
do you think the His/Her schooner would be demanding to sail?
PHV
do you think the His/Her schooner would be demanding to sail?
PHV
Peter, I guess if "Navel Jelly" can be turned into a schooner, then
the BW Hull could be turned into one. Why not go with WDJ? I guess I
don't find it a very attractive boat (I'm trying to recall where I
saw it last on the web, but I know that it has been some time and all
I can call to mind is the horrid specter of the BW cabin which I find
repulsive). Besides, I'm playing around with ideas that would fit my
current space constraints. And the BW would be the Maximum length I
could store with ease. After reading up on both the His/Hers schooner
and LS, I figure a sharpie hull with a wider beam would offer a more
leisurely form of sailing than the thrills offered by the
forementioned boats.
Dennis Marshall
the BW Hull could be turned into one. Why not go with WDJ? I guess I
don't find it a very attractive boat (I'm trying to recall where I
saw it last on the web, but I know that it has been some time and all
I can call to mind is the horrid specter of the BW cabin which I find
repulsive). Besides, I'm playing around with ideas that would fit my
current space constraints. And the BW would be the Maximum length I
could store with ease. After reading up on both the His/Hers schooner
and LS, I figure a sharpie hull with a wider beam would offer a more
leisurely form of sailing than the thrills offered by the
forementioned boats.
Dennis Marshall
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> > The Birdwatcher hull itself would be a great
> > platform for a traditional sprits'l schooner rig (ala Rondo II).
>
> In the MAIB that came this week, there is an aritcle by Jim "The
> Thole Pin" Thayer about a messabout called Kokopelli 2001 on Lake
> Powell. There were three Boger boats: a Long Micro, a Birdwatcher,
> and a Folding Schooner. Thayer judged that the Birdwater was the
> fastest all around. I would have guessed the schooner.
>
> Note that the Birdwatcher had slight mods to the cockpits and was
> carrying a sloop rig salvaged from a wooden one-design. (The
mainsail
> in the picture seems to be from a Venture 222.)
>
> All of which is to agree that the hull has potential. But the
> question does come up: Why not just go for the Jochems schooner?
>
> Peter
Or is seriously ill - talk to Susan and David:-)
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote
> All of which is to agree that the hull has potential. But the
> question does come up: Why not just go for the Jochems schooner?
>
> Peter
> The Birdwatcher hull itself would be a greatIn the MAIB that came this week, there is an aritcle by Jim "The
> platform for a traditional sprits'l schooner rig (ala Rondo II).
Thole Pin" Thayer about a messabout called Kokopelli 2001 on Lake
Powell. There were three Boger boats: a Long Micro, a Birdwatcher,
and a Folding Schooner. Thayer judged that the Birdwater was the
fastest all around. I would have guessed the schooner.
Note that the Birdwatcher had slight mods to the cockpits and was
carrying a sloop rig salvaged from a wooden one-design. (The mainsail
in the picture seems to be from a Venture 222.)
All of which is to agree that the hull has potential. But the
question does come up: Why not just go for the Jochems schooner?
Peter
I am not a fan of the Birdwatcher cabin. I guess that I am one of
those romantics who prefers an open boat to the functionality of the
BW designs. But, I was thinking, the hull itself would be a great
platform for a traditional sprits'l schooner rig (ala Rondo II). It
would be more stable than the Light Schooner, and perhaps a little
less demanding to sail than the LS or the His and Her Schooner. What
do you think?
Dennis Marshall
those romantics who prefers an open boat to the functionality of the
BW designs. But, I was thinking, the hull itself would be a great
platform for a traditional sprits'l schooner rig (ala Rondo II). It
would be more stable than the Light Schooner, and perhaps a little
less demanding to sail than the LS or the His and Her Schooner. What
do you think?
Dennis Marshall