Re: Whisper Gen
My interest in the WhisperGen was because of the following perceived
pluses:
1. Extremely quiet. The water lapping on the side of the boat drowns
out the noise of the engine.
2. Excellent source of plumbed, pumped AND controlled heat. The
control system will turn on the WhisperGen if the hot water tank for
the shower needs it and/or if the cabin temperature needs it. sailing
in the Northwest, this is a VERY big plus.
3. Up to 18 KW per day on a boat that requires 14 KW per day,
including the ELECTRIC stove, refrigerator, freezer and A/C.
4. The included controller is a non-trivial additional cost to
the "just add a heat exchanger" alternative. The controller handles
battery charging and all thermal needs.
It provides all the power I need when I am moored and it is a back-up
for the primary generating source for use underway - the Solomon Tech
ST37 motor - for my battery banks.
The Whispergen has about the same running tolerances as most diesel
gensets, weighs about 200 pounds (90 KG) and will burn most
diesel/heating oil/kerosene, which is available in many areas that I
would be sailing in. It uses Nitrogen as its working fluid, not
Helium and can easily be charged by a knowledgable owner or mechanic.
(If you already know how to handle gas bottles for welding/cutting,
it would be no problem.) They can generate cold IF you power them
externally, but that isn't an issue with the WhisperGen.
How often do they need to be overhauled? Nobody knows for sure, yet.
They have only been running them continuous for 3 years and none have
needed any.
It is a system. If you concentrate on just one facet, you are sure to
find something that you don't like. But, looked upon as a system, it
is very attractive for MY needs.
Dick.
P.S. NASA developed the $$$$ pens because pencils put conducting
graphite into a closed system. Crew breath it and switch contacts
collect it.
pluses:
1. Extremely quiet. The water lapping on the side of the boat drowns
out the noise of the engine.
2. Excellent source of plumbed, pumped AND controlled heat. The
control system will turn on the WhisperGen if the hot water tank for
the shower needs it and/or if the cabin temperature needs it. sailing
in the Northwest, this is a VERY big plus.
3. Up to 18 KW per day on a boat that requires 14 KW per day,
including the ELECTRIC stove, refrigerator, freezer and A/C.
4. The included controller is a non-trivial additional cost to
the "just add a heat exchanger" alternative. The controller handles
battery charging and all thermal needs.
It provides all the power I need when I am moored and it is a back-up
for the primary generating source for use underway - the Solomon Tech
ST37 motor - for my battery banks.
The Whispergen has about the same running tolerances as most diesel
gensets, weighs about 200 pounds (90 KG) and will burn most
diesel/heating oil/kerosene, which is available in many areas that I
would be sailing in. It uses Nitrogen as its working fluid, not
Helium and can easily be charged by a knowledgable owner or mechanic.
(If you already know how to handle gas bottles for welding/cutting,
it would be no problem.) They can generate cold IF you power them
externally, but that isn't an issue with the WhisperGen.
How often do they need to be overhauled? Nobody knows for sure, yet.
They have only been running them continuous for 3 years and none have
needed any.
It is a system. If you concentrate on just one facet, you are sure to
find something that you don't like. But, looked upon as a system, it
is very attractive for MY needs.
Dick.
P.S. NASA developed the $$$$ pens because pencils put conducting
graphite into a closed system. Crew breath it and switch contacts
collect it.
--- In bolger@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
> Along with a massive amount of heat, they "produce" a massive
amount
> of cold, about 54 degrees kelvin. One of the problems, thus the
> cost, is the extremely close tolerances that the little engines
must
> have and maintain for efficiency.
>
> Yes, they do use reactor grade helium inside the engines. (It's a
> closed system of expansion and contraction of the gas that creates
> such high and low temps). The cylinders are also enclosed in
> a "permanent" vacuum. Working on these engines is extremely
> expensive, and they take a ton of tweaking.
>
Some years ago I built small Stirling cycle engines, about the size
if a dial phone, that were used in infra-red detectors. (They looked
like micro Harley Davidson engines with long skinny cylinders)
Along with a massive amount of heat, they "produce" a massive amount
of cold, about 54 degrees kelvin. One of the problems, thus the
cost, is the extremely close tolerances that the little engines must
have and maintain for efficiency.
The Stirling cycle is produced using an outside source of energy, in
other words there has to be something to push the pistons, an
electric motor etc. They can be extremely efficient however.
Our engines were turned with a small DC electric motor. One of our
tricks was to use the excess heat over a very large array of
thermocouples. This produced a fairly large voltage that was fed into
the main circuit and rather drastically reduced the amount of
electricity needed to turn the crankshaft.
The big effect of the Stirling engine is the heat and cold produced.
That heat or cold need to be used/transferred by other means which
requires other devices. (More weight). They are definitely quiet,
about the same as a quite refrigerator compressor.
Yes, they do use reactor grade helium inside the engines. (It's a
closed system of expansion and contraction of the gas that creates
such high and low temps). The cylinders are also enclosed in
a "permanent" vacuum. Working on these engines is extremely
expensive, and they take a ton of tweaking.
I personally think that the application of a Stirling cycle engine
for adaptation to a drive system for a boat is a bit of a reach,
considering the very high maintenance costs, the amount of knowledge
and technical know how it takes to build and repair along with
the "hidden costs" involved in running the little beasts . . It's a
bit like using a Ferrari to do the job of a good Chevy or ford pick-
up.
if a dial phone, that were used in infra-red detectors. (They looked
like micro Harley Davidson engines with long skinny cylinders)
Along with a massive amount of heat, they "produce" a massive amount
of cold, about 54 degrees kelvin. One of the problems, thus the
cost, is the extremely close tolerances that the little engines must
have and maintain for efficiency.
The Stirling cycle is produced using an outside source of energy, in
other words there has to be something to push the pistons, an
electric motor etc. They can be extremely efficient however.
Our engines were turned with a small DC electric motor. One of our
tricks was to use the excess heat over a very large array of
thermocouples. This produced a fairly large voltage that was fed into
the main circuit and rather drastically reduced the amount of
electricity needed to turn the crankshaft.
The big effect of the Stirling engine is the heat and cold produced.
That heat or cold need to be used/transferred by other means which
requires other devices. (More weight). They are definitely quiet,
about the same as a quite refrigerator compressor.
Yes, they do use reactor grade helium inside the engines. (It's a
closed system of expansion and contraction of the gas that creates
such high and low temps). The cylinders are also enclosed in
a "permanent" vacuum. Working on these engines is extremely
expensive, and they take a ton of tweaking.
I personally think that the application of a Stirling cycle engine
for adaptation to a drive system for a boat is a bit of a reach,
considering the very high maintenance costs, the amount of knowledge
and technical know how it takes to build and repair along with
the "hidden costs" involved in running the little beasts . . It's a
bit like using a Ferrari to do the job of a good Chevy or ford pick-
up.
--- In bolger@y..., "timothyennuinet" <timothy@e...> wrote:
> Quietness isnt the only reason to use one. As i said, you can burn
> ANYTHING and run these things, AND they are near 100% efficiency,
when
> you factor in the waste heat.
>
> 1) Fuel conservation. BIG plus
> 2) Multi fueled. Even Gas (as in propane, natural, butane)
> 3) Quiet as all get out
>
> So.. I WANT one! =)
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Boca mail" <bek-pdm@e...> wrote:
> > Luckily WhisperGen was not designed by NASA!! When an existing
> technology
> > genset is as quiet and smooth as the earlier technoilogy Stirling
> Engine you
> > may be right. Pricing is all volume and I bet the computer you
use
> today
> > cost less than an PC in 1983!!
> >
> > As you may guess I think the whisper is fantatstic, but I don't
need
> one so
> > the price is not an issue. However, I wish the people who
anchored
> near me
> > used them so that I could enjoy the quiet of a peaceful anchorage.
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
I understand that the heat-engine types are using helium now.
I believe the freon ones were only used as heat 'pumps'. FYI a
stirling engine, when you input mechanical work, pumps heat/cold. So,
it is used sometimes as a cooler.
TEENY stirling engines are used as coolers on electronic devices like
night sight goggles. Neat! =)
But anyhoo... my vote is for continued devo so I can afford one. :)
> > A fella named Reverend Sterling invented it in the 1800's. It is anYes Peter. The chamber is sealed, so you can use any gas. =)
> > EXTERNAL combustion engine. Thats right.
>
> Since it's an external combustion engine, the working fluid does not
> have to be air (much less combustion exhaust gas). The engines being
> developed during the energy crises used freon-type gases. The fluid
> can be engineered for heat transfer, expansion, etc.
I understand that the heat-engine types are using helium now.
I believe the freon ones were only used as heat 'pumps'. FYI a
stirling engine, when you input mechanical work, pumps heat/cold. So,
it is used sometimes as a cooler.
TEENY stirling engines are used as coolers on electronic devices like
night sight goggles. Neat! =)
But anyhoo... my vote is for continued devo so I can afford one. :)
> A fella named Reverend Sterling invented it in the 1800's. It is anSince it's an external combustion engine, the working fluid does not
> EXTERNAL combustion engine. Thats right.
have to be air (much less combustion exhaust gas). The engines being
developed during the energy crises used freon-type gases. The fluid
can be engineered for heat transfer, expansion, etc.
Peter
Just realized.. people here may not know what a Sterling engine is, or
have the wherewithal to look it up. :)
A fella named Reverend Sterling invented it in the 1800's. It is an
EXTERNAL combustion engine. Thats right.
Fuel (of any sort) is burned outside the chamber. There is no
explosion involved, only heat.
Through a simple expansion mechanism, and piston(s), the
expansion/contraction of the air trapped inside the engine moves the
drive shaft round and round.
So, you can even run it off the sun. Which some people are doing. :)
There are (2) main resons it is not in every car today.
1) Sterling engines had to be BIG back then. They were used in
factories and mines mostly. (not true today)
2) Oil prices dropped bigtime before a more modern sterling engine
could be produced. So, the Internal combustion engine took over.
So, this is why it is so quiet. There is no BOOM to nuffle. The only
noise is mechanical chuffing from the parts moving round and round.
Heck, you could even use wood to run it. :) Originally they used
coal.. then coke.
There you go. Hope this has helped.
Lots of info at this link:
http://www.stirlingengine.com/
have the wherewithal to look it up. :)
A fella named Reverend Sterling invented it in the 1800's. It is an
EXTERNAL combustion engine. Thats right.
Fuel (of any sort) is burned outside the chamber. There is no
explosion involved, only heat.
Through a simple expansion mechanism, and piston(s), the
expansion/contraction of the air trapped inside the engine moves the
drive shaft round and round.
So, you can even run it off the sun. Which some people are doing. :)
There are (2) main resons it is not in every car today.
1) Sterling engines had to be BIG back then. They were used in
factories and mines mostly. (not true today)
2) Oil prices dropped bigtime before a more modern sterling engine
could be produced. So, the Internal combustion engine took over.
So, this is why it is so quiet. There is no BOOM to nuffle. The only
noise is mechanical chuffing from the parts moving round and round.
Heck, you could even use wood to run it. :) Originally they used
coal.. then coke.
There you go. Hope this has helped.
Lots of info at this link:
http://www.stirlingengine.com/
Quietness isnt the only reason to use one. As i said, you can burn
ANYTHING and run these things, AND they are near 100% efficiency, when
you factor in the waste heat.
1) Fuel conservation. BIG plus
2) Multi fueled. Even Gas (as in propane, natural, butane)
3) Quiet as all get out
So.. I WANT one! =)
ANYTHING and run these things, AND they are near 100% efficiency, when
you factor in the waste heat.
1) Fuel conservation. BIG plus
2) Multi fueled. Even Gas (as in propane, natural, butane)
3) Quiet as all get out
So.. I WANT one! =)
--- In bolger@y..., "Boca mail" <bek-pdm@e...> wrote:
> Luckily WhisperGen was not designed by NASA!! When an existing
technology
> genset is as quiet and smooth as the earlier technoilogy Stirling
Engine you
> may be right. Pricing is all volume and I bet the computer you use
today
> cost less than an PC in 1983!!
>
> As you may guess I think the whisper is fantatstic, but I don't need
one so
> the price is not an issue. However, I wish the people who anchored
near me
> used them so that I could enjoy the quiet of a peaceful anchorage.
Luckily WhisperGen was not designed by NASA!! When an existing technology
genset is as quiet and smooth as the earlier technoilogy Stirling Engine you
may be right. Pricing is all volume and I bet the computer you use today
cost less than an PC in 1983!!
As you may guess I think the whisper is fantatstic, but I don't need one so
the price is not an issue. However, I wish the people who anchored near me
used them so that I could enjoy the quiet of a peaceful anchorage.
Cheers,
-----Original Message-----
From: announcer97624 [mailto:cupp@...]
Sent: 10 May 2002 17:55
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Whisper Gen
Whisper Gen is a great concept but buying an enclosed existing
technology Genset and adding a heat exchanger to the exhaust is
certainly a less expensive option that will get the same results.
When NASA designed a pen that would write in zero gravity and spent
two million doing it the Russians just used pencils.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Sex: F M
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genset is as quiet and smooth as the earlier technoilogy Stirling Engine you
may be right. Pricing is all volume and I bet the computer you use today
cost less than an PC in 1983!!
As you may guess I think the whisper is fantatstic, but I don't need one so
the price is not an issue. However, I wish the people who anchored near me
used them so that I could enjoy the quiet of a peaceful anchorage.
Cheers,
-----Original Message-----
From: announcer97624 [mailto:cupp@...]
Sent: 10 May 2002 17:55
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Whisper Gen
Whisper Gen is a great concept but buying an enclosed existing
technology Genset and adding a heat exchanger to the exhaust is
certainly a less expensive option that will get the same results.
When NASA designed a pen that would write in zero gravity and spent
two million doing it the Russians just used pencils.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Height: 4567 ft 01234567891011 in
Weight:
Sex: F M
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whisper Gen is a great concept but buying an enclosed existing
technology Genset and adding a heat exchanger to the exhaust is
certainly a less expensive option that will get the same results.
When NASA designed a pen that would write in zero gravity and spent
two million doing it the Russians just used pencils.
technology Genset and adding a heat exchanger to the exhaust is
certainly a less expensive option that will get the same results.
When NASA designed a pen that would write in zero gravity and spent
two million doing it the Russians just used pencils.
Last I saw it was $10,000 in Europe. 3-500 would get it airfreight to
the East Coast.
My thoughts were that it compares to 4-6 kw diesel generator, which you
can get for 5-7 thousand. Because of the low production rate (2000 Yr.)
and what appears to me as a fair amount of R&D I suspect the price won't
come down much.
Its too bad, if I could set the sales booth up the way I want, I know I
could sell in the 100's at the Seattle Boat show if the price was down
around $6,500.
It is a very elegant concept, the price puts in the higher end market,
but that market tends to use more power than it produces so I don't know
how it is going to play out.
More in the next few days
HJ
timothyennuinet wrote:
the East Coast.
My thoughts were that it compares to 4-6 kw diesel generator, which you
can get for 5-7 thousand. Because of the low production rate (2000 Yr.)
and what appears to me as a fair amount of R&D I suspect the price won't
come down much.
Its too bad, if I could set the sales booth up the way I want, I know I
could sell in the 100's at the Seattle Boat show if the price was down
around $6,500.
It is a very elegant concept, the price puts in the higher end market,
but that market tends to use more power than it produces so I don't know
how it is going to play out.
More in the next few days
HJ
timothyennuinet wrote:
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > From a post here about the WhisperGen sterling engined generator I
> did some
> > research. Looks very good, unfortunately the retail in the USA is
> > $13,000.00. Kind of puts it out of my league for the Wyo.
>
> If it was $3000 or so Id buy it in a SECOND. The thing generates huge
> amounts of waste heat, which can be used to heat water. So I can have
> my nice hot shower. :) Plus, maintenence is almost non existant on a
> sterling engine. There just isn't much to breakdown. And it is very
> efficient, and very quiet, and runs on ANYTHING you can burn. So in an
> emergency you just break out your 151.... ;) Or kerosene, or gasoline,
> or propane, or...
>
> I just hope this technology follows similiar trends as I have seen
> elsewhere.. if it does, we should be able to get one for under $5000
> US in about 4 years
>
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
amounts of waste heat, which can be used to heat water. So I can have
my nice hot shower. :) Plus, maintenence is almost non existant on a
sterling engine. There just isn't much to breakdown. And it is very
efficient, and very quiet, and runs on ANYTHING you can burn. So in an
emergency you just break out your 151.... ;) Or kerosene, or gasoline,
or propane, or...
I just hope this technology follows similiar trends as I have seen
elsewhere.. if it does, we should be able to get one for under $5000
US in about 4 years
> From a post here about the WhisperGen sterling engined generator Idid some
> research. Looks very good, unfortunately the retail in the USA isIf it was $3000 or so Id buy it in a SECOND. The thing generates huge
> $13,000.00. Kind of puts it out of my league for the Wyo.
amounts of waste heat, which can be used to heat water. So I can have
my nice hot shower. :) Plus, maintenence is almost non existant on a
sterling engine. There just isn't much to breakdown. And it is very
efficient, and very quiet, and runs on ANYTHING you can burn. So in an
emergency you just break out your 151.... ;) Or kerosene, or gasoline,
or propane, or...
I just hope this technology follows similiar trends as I have seen
elsewhere.. if it does, we should be able to get one for under $5000
US in about 4 years
From a post here about the WhisperGen sterling engined generator I did some
research. Looks very good, unfortunately the retail in the USA is
$13,000.00. Kind of puts it out of my league for the Wyo.
Jeff
research. Looks very good, unfortunately the retail in the USA is
$13,000.00. Kind of puts it out of my league for the Wyo.
Jeff