Re: [bolger] Re: Homebuilt Forge
Right, blacksmith stuff, perhaps one could adapt the
guts of what you have described, but you don't want to
keep reheating the whole part, just the part you are
immediately shaping.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Can't you just pop the lid, pull out the metal and
bash it? I'm not <BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
guts of what you have described, but you don't want to
keep reheating the whole part, just the part you are
immediately shaping.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Can't you just pop the lid, pull out the metal and
bash it? I'm not <BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
At this moment the roof of my workplace is renewed
with roofing, which is burned using butane (not propane).
What a flames!
I noticed that the pro uses his torch about every 15 minutes to
warm up (about 5 secs) the bottom of the butane cylinder.
For melting lead, I don't know if butane is better than propane.
Jacky
with roofing, which is burned using butane (not propane).
What a flames!
I noticed that the pro uses his torch about every 15 minutes to
warm up (about 5 secs) the bottom of the butane cylinder.
For melting lead, I don't know if butane is better than propane.
Jacky
----- Original Message -----
From: jas_orr
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 2:03 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: pouring lead frustrations
I've been looking at steam lately, and one of the things I've read up
on is the heat source for the boiler. Some of the folks using
propane found that after running full out for a while, the expansion
of the propane caused the propane to get very cold, which in turn
caused performance to drop off. Maybe, with your 160,000 btu burner
cranked wide open, you're having the same problem.
The steamers deal with the problem by keeping the propane bottle in a
warm water bath (heated by steam, of course.) There is a risk here,
however, as in at least one case the water got too warm and the
propane pressure rose and blew the safety on the bottle, flooding the
hull with propane gas, which then reached the burner under the
boiler, and things got exciting.
(The occupants promptly leaped overboard and were picked up by
another steam boat, and after the initial bloom, the fire was put out
fairly easily. The bottle itself didn't explode, the vented propane
went up, scorching the wooden hull -- but the damage is repairable.)
Anyway, my points are:
try warming the propane bottle; and
don't warm it too much.
Good luck,
Jamie Orr
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
> Okay, you all had some good suggestion a week ago about cutting up
my
> old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on
pouring
> the lead. Here's what I've done. I cut up an old water heater to
get
> the inside tank (probably about 18" in diameter). Cut off the top
to
> make a giant pot. The bottom of the tank on concave, it arches up
> like the bottom of a wine bottle. This was set over a 160,000 BTU
> propane burner, the kind used in these parts for fish fries.
> Galvanized piping with a gate valve was attached to the drain hole
so
> the molten lead could be poured, under control, into the mold. I
lit
> the burner at full force for a couple hours and only a small
trickled
> melted. I figued maybe the lead pieces were too big so I cut it up
> into smaller pieces -- probably aroudn 20 pounds. Didn't really
have
> time that day to try again, but Sunday I went down and, with about
> 400 pounds of lead in the tank, ran the burner for 9 hours.
Probably
> about 30 pounds melted, sort of. What seem to be happening is the
> lead melted around one edge, tricked around the rest of the bottom,
> and then hardened -- with the burner still going full blast. I did
> have a piece of plywood over the top of the tank to keep the heat
in.
>
> Here are my thoughts and options, and I'd like to hear from list
> members who've had experience with large lead pours. A frind said
> that the tank may have a double bottom for insulation purposes
which
> would explain the problems. But two plumbing outfits I called said
> they didn't think the tank would have a double bottom. I'm going to
> look when I go back down Thursday, and if it has one hope the lower
> layer can be cut out easily. If this doens't work, does anyone have
> any ideas of what else can be used for a tank? It's got to have a
> drain hole so the pour can be controlled....
>
> Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
> large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
> there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
> melted together and might delaminate later? Also, after I leveled
the
> mold, I put about 200 pounds of lead in it to keep it from shifting
> and to lessen the lead that had to be melted. I figured one big
pour
> would melt that enough to bond it to the mass, but I'm concerned
that
> with a smaller pour there might not be enough head to melt
the "cold"
> lead to adhere it to the liquid lead.
>
> Your comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Gary Blankenship
>
> P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
> the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
> move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire
a
> fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
> kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
> another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
> ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
> longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
> lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead.
So
> if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
> lead . . . .
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Can't you just pop the lid, pull out the metal and bash it? I'm not
sure what forging is unless it's like blacksmith stuff. My housemate's
gadget would melt something like 10 lbs (or maybe 7?) of iron in what
I seem to remember was less than 1/2 hour. Don't think bronze would be
necessary. Seems like you could make a smaller version with smaller
blower, etc. The whole thing was extremely primitive, but worked very
well. I also suspect it was seat-of-the-pants engineering, if you know
what I mean. Well, maybe not ENTIRELY primitive. It was built into a
rack from a PDP-1 (which ran the ARPANET, the Net's distant ancestor,
back in the early 60's I was told). I suspect if you put a PDP-1 in a
small enough room it would be good for forging! Power supplies made
good battery chargers, too. No one wanted it in one piece.
sure what forging is unless it's like blacksmith stuff. My housemate's
gadget would melt something like 10 lbs (or maybe 7?) of iron in what
I seem to remember was less than 1/2 hour. Don't think bronze would be
necessary. Seems like you could make a smaller version with smaller
blower, etc. The whole thing was extremely primitive, but worked very
well. I also suspect it was seat-of-the-pants engineering, if you know
what I mean. Well, maybe not ENTIRELY primitive. It was built into a
rack from a PDP-1 (which ran the ARPANET, the Net's distant ancestor,
back in the early 60's I was told). I suspect if you put a PDP-1 in a
small enough room it would be good for forging! Power supplies made
good battery chargers, too. No one wanted it in one piece.
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> There was something like this in WB years ago.
> Interesting, but not the open forge I am looking for
> right now. Though certain things I might forge could
> be cast in Bronze.
>
> Thanks.
> --- rnlocnil <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> <tt>
> Back when I was in college, we had a guy in the house
> who liked to <BR>
> cast metal. He could do
>
>
__
Thanks for all the suggestions and input. I hope to get down
tomorrow, although it may be the weekend, and have another go, or at
least look things over. From the experience of you lead veterans, I'm
guessing it's a problem with the tank -- most likely a double bottom
or some sort of insulation -- but we'll see. I've used a backpacking
campstove and a big pot to melt small quantities fairly quickly which
is why this baffles me. Also, this setup was recommended by the yard
owner who watch someone quickly melt about 700 pounds. I'll let you
all know what I find.
On the questions about melting the lead in the existing keel. I
actually tried that, but gave it up when the borrowed burner wouldn't
work right and all I could get was yellow flames. Also there were
simply too many unknowns. For one, the with the keel on its side, the
lead is in an area about three by three feet. The burner could only
heat a small part of this at one time, and couldn't reach the areas
at all that were being supported by concrete blocks. Also, the
internal logitudinal frames would likely prevent it all from melting
and flowing at once. I was also worried that if the bottom of the
lead melted and expanded before the top did, it might generate some
sort of explosion.:( It looked like it would take three burners to
get everything melted at once, and frankly since this whole process
scares me to death, it seemed there were to many uncertainties to
this method, at least for this rookie. It definitely wouldn't work
now as I've cut most of one side off in the largely unsuccessful
attempt to salvage the lead. Oh well, I've got lots of salvaged
stainless from the keel walls for future projects.....
Gary Blankenship
tomorrow, although it may be the weekend, and have another go, or at
least look things over. From the experience of you lead veterans, I'm
guessing it's a problem with the tank -- most likely a double bottom
or some sort of insulation -- but we'll see. I've used a backpacking
campstove and a big pot to melt small quantities fairly quickly which
is why this baffles me. Also, this setup was recommended by the yard
owner who watch someone quickly melt about 700 pounds. I'll let you
all know what I find.
On the questions about melting the lead in the existing keel. I
actually tried that, but gave it up when the borrowed burner wouldn't
work right and all I could get was yellow flames. Also there were
simply too many unknowns. For one, the with the keel on its side, the
lead is in an area about three by three feet. The burner could only
heat a small part of this at one time, and couldn't reach the areas
at all that were being supported by concrete blocks. Also, the
internal logitudinal frames would likely prevent it all from melting
and flowing at once. I was also worried that if the bottom of the
lead melted and expanded before the top did, it might generate some
sort of explosion.:( It looked like it would take three burners to
get everything melted at once, and frankly since this whole process
scares me to death, it seemed there were to many uncertainties to
this method, at least for this rookie. It definitely wouldn't work
now as I've cut most of one side off in the largely unsuccessful
attempt to salvage the lead. Oh well, I've got lots of salvaged
stainless from the keel walls for future projects.....
Gary Blankenship
Gary,
I've loaded a photo of my lead melting pot to the "Photos"
section...it is titled 'Plumbus Liquidus'.
My melting pot is made from an old propane tank. PLEASE DON'T DELUGE
ME WITH MESSAGES ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO CUTTING UP OLD
PROPANE TANKS. It's easy and safe to do, if done PROPERLY!
First, I cut the tank in half horizontally. I then cut the bottom
portion horizontally about 18" above ground level. I then inverted
the upper half and set it down into the 18" tall bottom piece,
welding it in place. This gives a pot with a concave bottom that is
about 12" above the gound. You screw your drain pipe fittings in the
old propane valve hole, using appropriate fittings to get the drain
out of the "firebox" to where you have your valve arrangement.
Incidentally, I've tried the gate valve arrangement, and it works,
but I find the following more useful. Route the drain out of the
firebox horizontally. Run the drain horizontally just far enough to
clear the tank sides. Thread an elbow on at this point and then
screw in a riser pipe.....high enough so that the top of the pipe is
above the highest level of your liquid lead.
Install another elbow at the top of the riser, oriented so that it
will make a downward facing spout when you pivot the riser pipe from
vertical to horizontal. Obviously, you need to tighten all the pipe
joints securely.....EXCEPT the horizontal-to-vertical elbow joint
just outside the firebox. Leave this joint just loose enough that
you can force the riser down to the horizontal positon for pouring,
but tight enough that it will remain vertical during melting. I
welded a ring on the spout elbow so I could 'latch' the riser pipe in
the vertical/melting positon.
As with the gate valve, you will need to heat the riser pipe/elbow to
melt the lead inside the drain pipe and begin the pour. You can halt
the pour at any time by simply returning the riser pipe to vertical.
Cut holes in the 18" bottom piece. One hole for air inlet (I sized
mine for a piece of 2" iron pipe), and another hole for where you
feed the fuel in. I like to use coal for fuel.....difficult to find
these days in some localities, but lots of BTU content per pound.
Last year I melted 6000 pounds of scrap lead and used only 250 pounds
of coal.
Cut two more holes at 90° to the air and feed holes....for air/flame
outlet. See below for how I made a couple of 'chimneys' for these
flame holes.
My air source is an old yard sale Sears vacuum sweeper ($2.00)with
the discharge side (blow, don't suck!) directed into a piece of 2"
pipe. It's easy to get too much air, so play with that.
Incidentally, I was able to greatly increase the melting ability by
taking the leftover piece of tank....a cylinder about 24" long....
splitting it vertically, and spot welding the pieces vertically to
the sides of the melting pot. Weld the 'chimneys' so that they
slightly overlap the flame holes you cut. The gap between the pot
sides and the welded on pieces makes two vertical chimneys which
really speed up the process. I can liquify the initial charge (about
300 pounds) from a cold start in about 45 minutes.
Sorry to be so wordy. Hope this helps.
TUNE FOR MAXIMUM SMOKE !! Have fun, take all necessary safety
precautions.
John
I've loaded a photo of my lead melting pot to the "Photos"
section...it is titled 'Plumbus Liquidus'.
My melting pot is made from an old propane tank. PLEASE DON'T DELUGE
ME WITH MESSAGES ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO CUTTING UP OLD
PROPANE TANKS. It's easy and safe to do, if done PROPERLY!
First, I cut the tank in half horizontally. I then cut the bottom
portion horizontally about 18" above ground level. I then inverted
the upper half and set it down into the 18" tall bottom piece,
welding it in place. This gives a pot with a concave bottom that is
about 12" above the gound. You screw your drain pipe fittings in the
old propane valve hole, using appropriate fittings to get the drain
out of the "firebox" to where you have your valve arrangement.
Incidentally, I've tried the gate valve arrangement, and it works,
but I find the following more useful. Route the drain out of the
firebox horizontally. Run the drain horizontally just far enough to
clear the tank sides. Thread an elbow on at this point and then
screw in a riser pipe.....high enough so that the top of the pipe is
above the highest level of your liquid lead.
Install another elbow at the top of the riser, oriented so that it
will make a downward facing spout when you pivot the riser pipe from
vertical to horizontal. Obviously, you need to tighten all the pipe
joints securely.....EXCEPT the horizontal-to-vertical elbow joint
just outside the firebox. Leave this joint just loose enough that
you can force the riser down to the horizontal positon for pouring,
but tight enough that it will remain vertical during melting. I
welded a ring on the spout elbow so I could 'latch' the riser pipe in
the vertical/melting positon.
As with the gate valve, you will need to heat the riser pipe/elbow to
melt the lead inside the drain pipe and begin the pour. You can halt
the pour at any time by simply returning the riser pipe to vertical.
Cut holes in the 18" bottom piece. One hole for air inlet (I sized
mine for a piece of 2" iron pipe), and another hole for where you
feed the fuel in. I like to use coal for fuel.....difficult to find
these days in some localities, but lots of BTU content per pound.
Last year I melted 6000 pounds of scrap lead and used only 250 pounds
of coal.
Cut two more holes at 90° to the air and feed holes....for air/flame
outlet. See below for how I made a couple of 'chimneys' for these
flame holes.
My air source is an old yard sale Sears vacuum sweeper ($2.00)with
the discharge side (blow, don't suck!) directed into a piece of 2"
pipe. It's easy to get too much air, so play with that.
Incidentally, I was able to greatly increase the melting ability by
taking the leftover piece of tank....a cylinder about 24" long....
splitting it vertically, and spot welding the pieces vertically to
the sides of the melting pot. Weld the 'chimneys' so that they
slightly overlap the flame holes you cut. The gap between the pot
sides and the welded on pieces makes two vertical chimneys which
really speed up the process. I can liquify the initial charge (about
300 pounds) from a cold start in about 45 minutes.
Sorry to be so wordy. Hope this helps.
TUNE FOR MAXIMUM SMOKE !! Have fun, take all necessary safety
precautions.
John
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
> Okay, you all had some good suggestion a week ago about cutting up
my
> old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on
pouring
I've been looking at steam lately, and one of the things I've read up
on is the heat source for the boiler. Some of the folks using
propane found that after running full out for a while, the expansion
of the propane caused the propane to get very cold, which in turn
caused performance to drop off. Maybe, with your 160,000 btu burner
cranked wide open, you're having the same problem.
The steamers deal with the problem by keeping the propane bottle in a
warm water bath (heated by steam, of course.) There is a risk here,
however, as in at least one case the water got too warm and the
propane pressure rose and blew the safety on the bottle, flooding the
hull with propane gas, which then reached the burner under the
boiler, and things got exciting.
(The occupants promptly leaped overboard and were picked up by
another steam boat, and after the initial bloom, the fire was put out
fairly easily. The bottle itself didn't explode, the vented propane
went up, scorching the wooden hull -- but the damage is repairable.)
Anyway, my points are:
try warming the propane bottle; and
don't warm it too much.
Good luck,
Jamie Orr
on is the heat source for the boiler. Some of the folks using
propane found that after running full out for a while, the expansion
of the propane caused the propane to get very cold, which in turn
caused performance to drop off. Maybe, with your 160,000 btu burner
cranked wide open, you're having the same problem.
The steamers deal with the problem by keeping the propane bottle in a
warm water bath (heated by steam, of course.) There is a risk here,
however, as in at least one case the water got too warm and the
propane pressure rose and blew the safety on the bottle, flooding the
hull with propane gas, which then reached the burner under the
boiler, and things got exciting.
(The occupants promptly leaped overboard and were picked up by
another steam boat, and after the initial bloom, the fire was put out
fairly easily. The bottle itself didn't explode, the vented propane
went up, scorching the wooden hull -- but the damage is repairable.)
Anyway, my points are:
try warming the propane bottle; and
don't warm it too much.
Good luck,
Jamie Orr
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
> Okay, you all had some good suggestion a week ago about cutting up
my
> old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on
pouring
> the lead. Here's what I've done. I cut up an old water heater to
get
> the inside tank (probably about 18" in diameter). Cut off the top
to
> make a giant pot. The bottom of the tank on concave, it arches up
> like the bottom of a wine bottle. This was set over a 160,000 BTU
> propane burner, the kind used in these parts for fish fries.
> Galvanized piping with a gate valve was attached to the drain hole
so
> the molten lead could be poured, under control, into the mold. I
lit
> the burner at full force for a couple hours and only a small
trickled
> melted. I figued maybe the lead pieces were too big so I cut it up
> into smaller pieces -- probably aroudn 20 pounds. Didn't really
have
> time that day to try again, but Sunday I went down and, with about
> 400 pounds of lead in the tank, ran the burner for 9 hours.
Probably
> about 30 pounds melted, sort of. What seem to be happening is the
> lead melted around one edge, tricked around the rest of the bottom,
> and then hardened -- with the burner still going full blast. I did
> have a piece of plywood over the top of the tank to keep the heat
in.
>
> Here are my thoughts and options, and I'd like to hear from list
> members who've had experience with large lead pours. A frind said
> that the tank may have a double bottom for insulation purposes
which
> would explain the problems. But two plumbing outfits I called said
> they didn't think the tank would have a double bottom. I'm going to
> look when I go back down Thursday, and if it has one hope the lower
> layer can be cut out easily. If this doens't work, does anyone have
> any ideas of what else can be used for a tank? It's got to have a
> drain hole so the pour can be controlled....
>
> Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
> large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
> there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
> melted together and might delaminate later? Also, after I leveled
the
> mold, I put about 200 pounds of lead in it to keep it from shifting
> and to lessen the lead that had to be melted. I figured one big
pour
> would melt that enough to bond it to the mass, but I'm concerned
that
> with a smaller pour there might not be enough head to melt
the "cold"
> lead to adhere it to the liquid lead.
>
> Your comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Gary Blankenship
>
> P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
> the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
> move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire
a
> fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
> kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
> another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
> ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
> longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
> lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead.
So
> if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
> lead . . . .
Type of homemade one.
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco5.1/article.htm
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco5.1/article.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas dalzell" <proaconstrictor@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Homebuilt Forge
> I am not familiar with those? Is that a brand name.
> I do little woodworking tools, and the pieces a
> rigging. Most recently I was just bending 7/16 bar
> for croquet hoops. I will do whatever I can get away
> with. I have seen the forges that Japanese tool
> makers use, and they are very small, and they seem
> able to forge all manner of things in them, but
> doubtless a lot of skill is required, and this being a
> tight neighborhood, I just want something I can turn
> on, if that is possible, not something that seems like
> an all day barbecue.
>
>
> --- Richard Spelling <richard@...> wrote:
>
> <HR>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> The propane kaowool freon bottle ones work pretty
> good. Friend of mine has<BR>
> one.<BR>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
There was something like this in WB years ago.
Interesting, but not the open forge I am looking for
right now. Though certain things I might forge could
be cast in Bronze.
Thanks.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Back when I was in college, we had a guy in the house
who liked to <BR>
cast metal. He could do
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Interesting, but not the open forge I am looking for
right now. Though certain things I might forge could
be cast in Bronze.
Thanks.
--- rnlocnil <lincolnr@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Back when I was in college, we had a guy in the house
who liked to <BR>
cast metal. He could do
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
I am not familiar with those? Is that a brand name.
I do little woodworking tools, and the pieces a
rigging. Most recently I was just bending 7/16 bar
for croquet hoops. I will do whatever I can get away
with. I have seen the forges that Japanese tool
makers use, and they are very small, and they seem
able to forge all manner of things in them, but
doubtless a lot of skill is required, and this being a
tight neighborhood, I just want something I can turn
on, if that is possible, not something that seems like
an all day barbecue.
--- Richard Spelling <richard@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
The propane kaowool freon bottle ones work pretty
good. Friend of mine has<BR>
one.<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
I do little woodworking tools, and the pieces a
rigging. Most recently I was just bending 7/16 bar
for croquet hoops. I will do whatever I can get away
with. I have seen the forges that Japanese tool
makers use, and they are very small, and they seem
able to forge all manner of things in them, but
doubtless a lot of skill is required, and this being a
tight neighborhood, I just want something I can turn
on, if that is possible, not something that seems like
an all day barbecue.
--- Richard Spelling <richard@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
The propane kaowool freon bottle ones work pretty
good. Friend of mine has<BR>
one.<BR>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Back when I was in college, we had a guy in the house who liked to
cast metal. He could do something like 10 lbs of iron in a homemade
setup he had. Circular, insulated with firebrick, removable lid on top
with hole for exhaust. Fire source was sheet metal funnel with a
cheapo upright vac motor feeding into small end, propane line feeding
into middle. Sounded great, like some kind of rumbling and whining jet
engine. Can't say about safety, this guy used steel tongs for the
ceramic crucible that softened up if he worked too slowly, and he only
wore sneakers! This was over concrete, so I bet the crucible would
have shattered if dropped. He also did bronze (maybe copper?) from old
downspouts, but never his sneakers. Lots of potential for one off
fittings using lost foam method, but he was a sculptor and did not
make practical use of his stuff.
As far as a melting container for the lead, a hot water heater on it's
side made a great barbeque and would probably make a great lead
container, if you didn't fill it so much it bent. One layer of fairly
thick steel. Neighbors loved sound of cutoff wheel used to cut it in
half. DON'T use for barbeque afterwards!
cast metal. He could do something like 10 lbs of iron in a homemade
setup he had. Circular, insulated with firebrick, removable lid on top
with hole for exhaust. Fire source was sheet metal funnel with a
cheapo upright vac motor feeding into small end, propane line feeding
into middle. Sounded great, like some kind of rumbling and whining jet
engine. Can't say about safety, this guy used steel tongs for the
ceramic crucible that softened up if he worked too slowly, and he only
wore sneakers! This was over concrete, so I bet the crucible would
have shattered if dropped. He also did bronze (maybe copper?) from old
downspouts, but never his sneakers. Lots of potential for one off
fittings using lost foam method, but he was a sculptor and did not
make practical use of his stuff.
As far as a melting container for the lead, a hot water heater on it's
side made a great barbeque and would probably make a great lead
container, if you didn't fill it so much it bent. One layer of fairly
thick steel. Neighbors loved sound of cutoff wheel used to cut it in
half. DON'T use for barbeque afterwards!
> --- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:_____________________________________________________________________
> > The melting lead question reminds me of my own heating
> > problems related to forging metal boat parts, and
> > tools. Can anyone suggest a good, cheap forge,
> > preferably gas, coold be solid fuel. There are a lot
> > of designs, but it is hard to evaluate which ones
> > work. Urls for proven designs gratefuly accepted, but
> > it would help if they are known to work.
> >
> > I forge small bits of metal for tools like chisels and
> > screw drivers. These can be done in a propane torch,
> > but larger pieces soak up too much heat.
> >
> >
>
> _
> > Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Check out these people:
http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
especially the series by Vince and Dave Gingery.
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html
Bruce
http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
especially the series by Vince and Dave Gingery.
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html
Bruce
--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> The melting lead question reminds me of my own heating
> problems related to forging metal boat parts, and
> tools. Can anyone suggest a good, cheap forge,
> preferably gas, coold be solid fuel. There are a lot
> of designs, but it is hard to evaluate which ones
> work. Urls for proven designs gratefuly accepted, but
> it would help if they are known to work.
>
> I forge small bits of metal for tools like chisels and
> screw drivers. These can be done in a propane torch,
> but larger pieces soak up too much heat.
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
I have melted lead for a 1200 lbs. keel in two sections. I used a
wood fire, surrounded by brick. The crucible was an old steel "slop
sink", about 30"x18"x9" deep, that I got for free from the scrap yard
where I bought the lead. I melted the lead in two 600 lbs. batches
and poured it into weak concrete mold I had poured the week before
and carefully dried. My first attempt to melt the lead failed, as the
fire didn't get hot enough. I quickly improvised a booster using the
exhaust from my shopvac. I also covered the sink/crucible with a
piece of plywood. Each 600 lbs. batch of lead (it was mostly old
plumbing scrap) then melted within a half and hour. I had to keep a
torch on the elbow of the outlet pipe to keep the lead from
solidifying before it escaped into the mold, but otherwise there were
no problems.
The uneven gap between the two sections of the keel can still be
seen. They did melt together somewhat, and the keel bolts connect
them, so I'm not too concerned that they'll ever part ways. If
pouring only fifty pound batches, it is unlikely that the laminations
would weld together structurally.
As for your crucible situation, you are either loosing too much heat
around the sides of the firebox, or the bottom of the tank is indeed
insulated. It seems unlikely that you could otherwise run a 160,000
BTU burner for nine hours and fail to melt the lead. Even alloyed,
lead melts at a fairly low temperature, certainly a lot less than
1000*. I would suggest getting a steel or cast iron vessel, like a
big sink or small bathtub, and a lid. You should also enclose the
firebox somewhat, although the bottom should remain open to admit air
for the fire. Make sure you've got heat on the outlet pipe, or you'll
just wind up with a lead casting of the inside of tthe crucible <g>
porky
wood fire, surrounded by brick. The crucible was an old steel "slop
sink", about 30"x18"x9" deep, that I got for free from the scrap yard
where I bought the lead. I melted the lead in two 600 lbs. batches
and poured it into weak concrete mold I had poured the week before
and carefully dried. My first attempt to melt the lead failed, as the
fire didn't get hot enough. I quickly improvised a booster using the
exhaust from my shopvac. I also covered the sink/crucible with a
piece of plywood. Each 600 lbs. batch of lead (it was mostly old
plumbing scrap) then melted within a half and hour. I had to keep a
torch on the elbow of the outlet pipe to keep the lead from
solidifying before it escaped into the mold, but otherwise there were
no problems.
The uneven gap between the two sections of the keel can still be
seen. They did melt together somewhat, and the keel bolts connect
them, so I'm not too concerned that they'll ever part ways. If
pouring only fifty pound batches, it is unlikely that the laminations
would weld together structurally.
As for your crucible situation, you are either loosing too much heat
around the sides of the firebox, or the bottom of the tank is indeed
insulated. It seems unlikely that you could otherwise run a 160,000
BTU burner for nine hours and fail to melt the lead. Even alloyed,
lead melts at a fairly low temperature, certainly a lot less than
1000*. I would suggest getting a steel or cast iron vessel, like a
big sink or small bathtub, and a lid. You should also enclose the
firebox somewhat, although the bottom should remain open to admit air
for the fire. Make sure you've got heat on the outlet pipe, or you'll
just wind up with a lead casting of the inside of tthe crucible <g>
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
> Okay, you all had some good suggestion a week ago about cutting up
my
> old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on
pouring
> the lead. Here's what I've done. I cut up an old water heater to
get
> the inside tank (probably about 18" in diameter). Cut off the top
to
> make a giant pot. The bottom of the tank on concave, it arches up
> like the bottom of a wine bottle. This was set over a 160,000 BTU
> propane burner, the kind used in these parts for fish fries.
> Galvanized piping with a gate valve was attached to the drain hole
so
> the molten lead could be poured, under control, into the mold. I
lit
> the burner at full force for a couple hours and only a small
trickled
> melted. I figued maybe the lead pieces were too big so I cut it up
> into smaller pieces -- probably aroudn 20 pounds. Didn't really
have
> time that day to try again, but Sunday I went down and, with about
> 400 pounds of lead in the tank, ran the burner for 9 hours.
Probably
> about 30 pounds melted, sort of. What seem to be happening is the
> lead melted around one edge, tricked around the rest of the bottom,
> and then hardened -- with the burner still going full blast. I did
> have a piece of plywood over the top of the tank to keep the heat
in.
>
> Here are my thoughts and options, and I'd like to hear from list
> members who've had experience with large lead pours. A frind said
> that the tank may have a double bottom for insulation purposes
which
> would explain the problems. But two plumbing outfits I called said
> they didn't think the tank would have a double bottom. I'm going to
> look when I go back down Thursday, and if it has one hope the lower
> layer can be cut out easily. If this doens't work, does anyone have
> any ideas of what else can be used for a tank? It's got to have a
> drain hole so the pour can be controlled....
>
> Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
> large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
> there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
> melted together and might delaminate later? Also, after I leveled
the
> mold, I put about 200 pounds of lead in it to keep it from shifting
> and to lessen the lead that had to be melted. I figured one big
pour
> would melt that enough to bond it to the mass, but I'm concerned
that
> with a smaller pour there might not be enough head to melt
the "cold"
> lead to adhere it to the liquid lead.
>
> Your comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Gary Blankenship
>
> P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
> the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
> move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire
a
> fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
> kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
> another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
> ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
> longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
> lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead.
So
> if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
> lead . . . .
I am anxiously awaiting news of some backyard boat builder being blown up by
a natural gas explosion, or keeling (pun) over from lead poisoning.
-----Original Message-----
From: brucehallman [mailto:brucehallman@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:46 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: pouring lead frustrations
a natural gas explosion, or keeling (pun) over from lead poisoning.
-----Original Message-----
From: brucehallman [mailto:brucehallman@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:46 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: pouring lead frustrations
--- In bolger@y..., Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> I've never melted that much lead...
Neither have I, but should that stop me from giving advice? :)
Sure sounds like you need more heat!
I recall reading in MAIB a couple years ago of someone who homebuilt
a "bunson burner" using two cast iron pipe end caps, a small one
nested inside a large one. The inside one had holes drilled in it.
The fuel used was Kerosene. My memory might be faulty, I wish I
could re-read that article, which I recall described an elegantly
cheap way to generate lots of heat to melt lead.
I also agree with the idea of burning wood for heat. Bust up some
junk wood, like packing crates etc., for lots of cheap heat.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17050657
91:HM/A=1000239/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1021477553%3eM=22
6014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1000239/R=1>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
l/S=1705065791:HM/A=1000239/rand=901437758>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The propane kaowool freon bottle ones work pretty good. Friend of mine has
one.
What are you forging?
one.
What are you forging?
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas dalzell" <proaconstrictor@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Homebuilt Forge
> The melting lead question reminds me of my own heating
> problems related to forging metal boat parts, and
> tools. Can anyone suggest a good, cheap forge,
> preferably gas, coold be solid fuel. There are a lot
> of designs, but it is hard to evaluate which ones
> work. Urls for proven designs gratefuly accepted, but
> it would help if they are known to work.
>
> I forge small bits of metal for tools like chisels and
> screw drivers. These can be done in a propane torch,
> but larger pieces soak up too much heat.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
The melting lead question reminds me of my own heating
problems related to forging metal boat parts, and
tools. Can anyone suggest a good, cheap forge,
preferably gas, coold be solid fuel. There are a lot
of designs, but it is hard to evaluate which ones
work. Urls for proven designs gratefuly accepted, but
it would help if they are known to work.
I forge small bits of metal for tools like chisels and
screw drivers. These can be done in a propane torch,
but larger pieces soak up too much heat.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
problems related to forging metal boat parts, and
tools. Can anyone suggest a good, cheap forge,
preferably gas, coold be solid fuel. There are a lot
of designs, but it is hard to evaluate which ones
work. Urls for proven designs gratefuly accepted, but
it would help if they are known to work.
I forge small bits of metal for tools like chisels and
screw drivers. These can be done in a propane torch,
but larger pieces soak up too much heat.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- In bolger@y..., Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
Sure sounds like you need more heat!
I recall reading in MAIB a couple years ago of someone who homebuilt
a "bunson burner" using two cast iron pipe end caps, a small one
nested inside a large one. The inside one had holes drilled in it.
The fuel used was Kerosene. My memory might be faulty, I wish I
could re-read that article, which I recall described an elegantly
cheap way to generate lots of heat to melt lead.
I also agree with the idea of burning wood for heat. Bust up some
junk wood, like packing crates etc., for lots of cheap heat.
> I've never melted that much lead...Neither have I, but should that stop me from giving advice? :)
Sure sounds like you need more heat!
I recall reading in MAIB a couple years ago of someone who homebuilt
a "bunson burner" using two cast iron pipe end caps, a small one
nested inside a large one. The inside one had holes drilled in it.
The fuel used was Kerosene. My memory might be faulty, I wish I
could re-read that article, which I recall described an elegantly
cheap way to generate lots of heat to melt lead.
I also agree with the idea of burning wood for heat. Bust up some
junk wood, like packing crates etc., for lots of cheap heat.
Friend of mine just took apart a leeboard, the counterweight was about
6" square by 1.5" thick. The weight was poured in 2 layers, they
seperated when the weight was pounded out of the leeboard with a hammer.
Looked like they did not melt together.
Much smaller than your application, just thought I would pass on the
info.
Shorty
6" square by 1.5" thick. The weight was poured in 2 layers, they
seperated when the weight was pounded out of the leeboard with a hammer.
Looked like they did not melt together.
Much smaller than your application, just thought I would pass on the
info.
Shorty
> Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
> large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
> there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
> melted together and might delaminate later?
Gary,
Not too sure why it did not work out for you unless the tank is
indeed double bottomed.I did my own Micro keel using the same method
as you except my water tank was layed on its side with a large
rectangular hole cut out of the side.All"through-hulls" were plugged
except for one which had an elbow attached to it to allow me to
simply swing the pipe down once the lead had gone liquid.The lead
melted within about 30 to 40 minutes and while this was happening a
propane torch was kept on the exit pipe to prevent the lead from
gelling in the pipe during the pour.
You have plenty of BTUs for the job,by the way,and the only other
thought I have would be the actual quality of your lead.Antimony,I
think it is called.Too much"non-lead" content may work against a
successful amateur pour.
Finally,should you give it another attempt with a different tank
layed on its side,do not over heat or boil your lead.If the liquid
lead has a purple hue to it,then it is too hot.
Let us know how your second efforts go.Be careful,and goodluck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the shores of the St.Lawrence..........
Not too sure why it did not work out for you unless the tank is
indeed double bottomed.I did my own Micro keel using the same method
as you except my water tank was layed on its side with a large
rectangular hole cut out of the side.All"through-hulls" were plugged
except for one which had an elbow attached to it to allow me to
simply swing the pipe down once the lead had gone liquid.The lead
melted within about 30 to 40 minutes and while this was happening a
propane torch was kept on the exit pipe to prevent the lead from
gelling in the pipe during the pour.
You have plenty of BTUs for the job,by the way,and the only other
thought I have would be the actual quality of your lead.Antimony,I
think it is called.Too much"non-lead" content may work against a
successful amateur pour.
Finally,should you give it another attempt with a different tank
layed on its side,do not over heat or boil your lead.If the liquid
lead has a purple hue to it,then it is too hot.
Let us know how your second efforts go.Be careful,and goodluck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from the shores of the St.Lawrence..........
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
I've never melted that much lead, but I have some ideas.
I suspect that your big problem is that your burner isn't big enough.
The more or less traditional lead melting vessel is a cast iron bath tub.
These come in a variety of sizes but all of them may be too big for your
pour. There is something to be said for a lot of flames under a shallow
vessel to warm things up in a hurry, like heating a Chinese wok. A long
flat melting vessel like a bath tub would seem to lend itself to being
fired by lots of charcoal along its length. I'd guess that a hundred or two
pounds of charcoal under a bathtub ought to melt 400 pounds of lead. If it
isn't getting hot enough, you could use the output of a shop vac to fan the
fires.
If you have gas or plan to use propane, you should be able to make a big
long burner or one designed to fit your bathtub or sink by putting together
an appropriately shaped "U" of black iron pipe with some holes, maybe a lot
of holes, drilled in it for gas orifices. A cast iron laundry sink or
janitor's sink may be a better size than a bath tub if you are using gas.
You are on your own in designing your burner. If you decide to make
one, it should only have to work for an afternoon, so erosion of the
orifices shouldn't be a big problem.
Of the lead pours I've read about, one of the key concerns was to not run
out of fuel in the middle of melting.
You could ask a big plumbing firm what they use to melt 400 pounds of lead
and if they'd do it for you.
I suspect that your big problem is that your burner isn't big enough.
The more or less traditional lead melting vessel is a cast iron bath tub.
These come in a variety of sizes but all of them may be too big for your
pour. There is something to be said for a lot of flames under a shallow
vessel to warm things up in a hurry, like heating a Chinese wok. A long
flat melting vessel like a bath tub would seem to lend itself to being
fired by lots of charcoal along its length. I'd guess that a hundred or two
pounds of charcoal under a bathtub ought to melt 400 pounds of lead. If it
isn't getting hot enough, you could use the output of a shop vac to fan the
fires.
If you have gas or plan to use propane, you should be able to make a big
long burner or one designed to fit your bathtub or sink by putting together
an appropriately shaped "U" of black iron pipe with some holes, maybe a lot
of holes, drilled in it for gas orifices. A cast iron laundry sink or
janitor's sink may be a better size than a bath tub if you are using gas.
You are on your own in designing your burner. If you decide to make
one, it should only have to work for an afternoon, so erosion of the
orifices shouldn't be a big problem.
Of the lead pours I've read about, one of the key concerns was to not run
out of fuel in the middle of melting.
You could ask a big plumbing firm what they use to melt 400 pounds of lead
and if they'd do it for you.
hmm. you have lead, encased in steel. you are taking it appart and putting
it in a steel pot to melt it...
Drill hole in existing keel and heat it up to melt the lead out?
it in a steel pot to melt it...
Drill hole in existing keel and heat it up to melt the lead out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "gbship2001" <gbship@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:45 PM
Subject: [bolger] pouring lead frustrations
| P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
| the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
| move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire a
| fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
| kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
| another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
| ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
| longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
| lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead. So
| if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
| lead . . . .
|
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
I'm no lead expert, but couldn't you weld a pipe fitting onto the old
keel and prop it up over a BIG fire, and use it as your melting tank?
Maybe throw some very high temperature insulation over the top of it
(this might help your water tank, too).
keel and prop it up over a BIG fire, and use it as your melting tank?
Maybe throw some very high temperature insulation over the top of it
(this might help your water tank, too).
--- In bolger@y..., "gbship2001" <gbship@i...> wrote:
snip
> P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
> the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
> move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire a
> fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
> kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
> another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
> ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
> longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
> lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead. So
> if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
> lead . . . .
Okay, you all had some good suggestion a week ago about cutting up my
old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on pouring
the lead. Here's what I've done. I cut up an old water heater to get
the inside tank (probably about 18" in diameter). Cut off the top to
make a giant pot. The bottom of the tank on concave, it arches up
like the bottom of a wine bottle. This was set over a 160,000 BTU
propane burner, the kind used in these parts for fish fries.
Galvanized piping with a gate valve was attached to the drain hole so
the molten lead could be poured, under control, into the mold. I lit
the burner at full force for a couple hours and only a small trickled
melted. I figued maybe the lead pieces were too big so I cut it up
into smaller pieces -- probably aroudn 20 pounds. Didn't really have
time that day to try again, but Sunday I went down and, with about
400 pounds of lead in the tank, ran the burner for 9 hours. Probably
about 30 pounds melted, sort of. What seem to be happening is the
lead melted around one edge, tricked around the rest of the bottom,
and then hardened -- with the burner still going full blast. I did
have a piece of plywood over the top of the tank to keep the heat in.
Here are my thoughts and options, and I'd like to hear from list
members who've had experience with large lead pours. A frind said
that the tank may have a double bottom for insulation purposes which
would explain the problems. But two plumbing outfits I called said
they didn't think the tank would have a double bottom. I'm going to
look when I go back down Thursday, and if it has one hope the lower
layer can be cut out easily. If this doens't work, does anyone have
any ideas of what else can be used for a tank? It's got to have a
drain hole so the pour can be controlled....
Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
melted together and might delaminate later? Also, after I leveled the
mold, I put about 200 pounds of lead in it to keep it from shifting
and to lessen the lead that had to be melted. I figured one big pour
would melt that enough to bond it to the mass, but I'm concerned that
with a smaller pour there might not be enough head to melt the "cold"
lead to adhere it to the liquid lead.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Gary Blankenship
P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire a
fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead. So
if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
lead . . . .
old keel and strengthening the mold. Now I need some help on pouring
the lead. Here's what I've done. I cut up an old water heater to get
the inside tank (probably about 18" in diameter). Cut off the top to
make a giant pot. The bottom of the tank on concave, it arches up
like the bottom of a wine bottle. This was set over a 160,000 BTU
propane burner, the kind used in these parts for fish fries.
Galvanized piping with a gate valve was attached to the drain hole so
the molten lead could be poured, under control, into the mold. I lit
the burner at full force for a couple hours and only a small trickled
melted. I figued maybe the lead pieces were too big so I cut it up
into smaller pieces -- probably aroudn 20 pounds. Didn't really have
time that day to try again, but Sunday I went down and, with about
400 pounds of lead in the tank, ran the burner for 9 hours. Probably
about 30 pounds melted, sort of. What seem to be happening is the
lead melted around one edge, tricked around the rest of the bottom,
and then hardened -- with the burner still going full blast. I did
have a piece of plywood over the top of the tank to keep the heat in.
Here are my thoughts and options, and I'd like to hear from list
members who've had experience with large lead pours. A frind said
that the tank may have a double bottom for insulation purposes which
would explain the problems. But two plumbing outfits I called said
they didn't think the tank would have a double bottom. I'm going to
look when I go back down Thursday, and if it has one hope the lower
layer can be cut out easily. If this doens't work, does anyone have
any ideas of what else can be used for a tank? It's got to have a
drain hole so the pour can be controlled....
Alternatively, I can melt the lead 50 pounds or so at a time in a
large pot and pour it in bit by bit. Has anyone done this? Could
there be a problem in that the layers of lead won't be sufficiently
melted together and might delaminate later? Also, after I leveled the
mold, I put about 200 pounds of lead in it to keep it from shifting
and to lessen the lead that had to be melted. I figured one big pour
would melt that enough to bond it to the mass, but I'm concerned that
with a smaller pour there might not be enough head to melt the "cold"
lead to adhere it to the liquid lead.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Gary Blankenship
P.S. Despite the many excellent suggestions on salvaging lead from
the old keel, i wound up buying scrap lead. The keel was too big to
move by myself for cutting and it wasn't worth the expense to hire a
fork life to flip the keel over. The other problem was it took one
kind of blade to cut off the steel shell of the keel, and then
another type to cut up the lead. The metal cutting blade kept being
ruined by the lead, and vice versa. Plus, there were two steel
longitundinal frames inside the keel and consequently inside the
lead, waiting to chew up any wood cutting blade used on the lead. So
if anyone in the Gulf Coast of Florida area needs some scrap
lead . . . .