Re: Chine Radius
Sounds like good advice!
--- In bolger@y..., "m_doles" <m_doles@y...> wrote:
> You might try using hard rubber softeners. Find some pads of hard
1/2
> inch or so rubber maybe a foot square and place it on the chines as
> the slings are tensioned. This may spread the force. Mabe cutouts
> of an old tire. milton
> --- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> >
> > The builder of my AS-29, Herb, was worried about hogging as
well.
> He
> > wrote to Bolger and got a reply back saying something to the
effect
> > of "...it doesn't much matter where you put the braces - that
> bottom
> > is strong! But make sure you support the chines..."
> >
> > Based on that observation, I am not worrying too much about where
> my
> > braces are. I think I remember Herb saying he built the bottom
> with
> > the concavity (can't remember if it was on purpose!), so I -
> > personally- don't think the choice or location of stands/braces
> will
> > make much of a difference. On the other hand, a simple bounce in
> the
> > slings or a momentary tilt while blocking probably caused the
> breaks
> > in the chine sheathing. I am pretty sure it happened to Alisa a
> long
> > time ago, maybe even the first year (1995). The real lesson I am
> > taking from all of this is that a larger radius is good and heavy
> > reinforcement is important. To help with storage, I'll be trying
> > four long padded blocks under the chine next time, but there
> doesn't
> > seem to be much I can do about the slings.
> >
> > Frank San Miguel
> > Wilmington, DE
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
> > > Wow! This is good to know. I had planned on marking the
location
> of
> > > bulkheads, etc. so the yard man would put the slings in the
right
> > > place. I hadn't thought of the weight of the entire boat
sitting
> on
> > > the chines for the winter.
> > >
> > > It would probably be good to locate any winter supports at or
very
> > > near the bulkheads to spread the load away from the chines. I
also
> > > plan on using some jack stands (bought cheap from a yard that
was
> > > closing.) By putting the stands under the ends I am hoping to
> avoid
> > > "hogging" during the winters. That might be what created the
> concave
> > > warp you noted.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> > > > Funny you should mention chine radius just now. I have an
> early
> > AS-
> > > > 29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she
> > suffers
> > > > from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings
and
> > > > mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad
> > ties
> > > > that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the
weight
> > of
> > > > the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting
> down.
> > This
> > > > caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may
> be
> > that
> > > > this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per
> the
> > > > plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even
> > more.
> > > >
> > > > Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has
> > caused
> > > > some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about
> 1".
> > > > Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about
3"-
> > 4"
> > > >
> > > > I am in the midst of repairs right now.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
> > > >
> > > >
You might try using hard rubber softeners. Find some pads of hard 1/2
inch or so rubber maybe a foot square and place it on the chines as
the slings are tensioned. This may spread the force. Mabe cutouts
of an old tire. milton
inch or so rubber maybe a foot square and place it on the chines as
the slings are tensioned. This may spread the force. Mabe cutouts
of an old tire. milton
--- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
>
> The builder of my AS-29, Herb, was worried about hogging as well.
He
> wrote to Bolger and got a reply back saying something to the effect
> of "...it doesn't much matter where you put the braces - that
bottom
> is strong! But make sure you support the chines..."
>
> Based on that observation, I am not worrying too much about where
my
> braces are. I think I remember Herb saying he built the bottom
with
> the concavity (can't remember if it was on purpose!), so I -
> personally- don't think the choice or location of stands/braces
will
> make much of a difference. On the other hand, a simple bounce in
the
> slings or a momentary tilt while blocking probably caused the
breaks
> in the chine sheathing. I am pretty sure it happened to Alisa a
long
> time ago, maybe even the first year (1995). The real lesson I am
> taking from all of this is that a larger radius is good and heavy
> reinforcement is important. To help with storage, I'll be trying
> four long padded blocks under the chine next time, but there
doesn't
> seem to be much I can do about the slings.
>
> Frank San Miguel
> Wilmington, DE
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
> > Wow! This is good to know. I had planned on marking the location
of
> > bulkheads, etc. so the yard man would put the slings in the right
> > place. I hadn't thought of the weight of the entire boat sitting
on
> > the chines for the winter.
> >
> > It would probably be good to locate any winter supports at or very
> > near the bulkheads to spread the load away from the chines. I also
> > plan on using some jack stands (bought cheap from a yard that was
> > closing.) By putting the stands under the ends I am hoping to
avoid
> > "hogging" during the winters. That might be what created the
concave
> > warp you noted.
> >
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> > > Funny you should mention chine radius just now. I have an
early
> AS-
> > > 29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she
> suffers
> > > from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings and
> > > mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad
> ties
> > > that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the weight
> of
> > > the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting
down.
> This
> > > caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may
be
> that
> > > this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per
the
> > > plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even
> more.
> > >
> > > Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has
> caused
> > > some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about
1".
> > > Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about 3"-
> 4"
> > >
> > > I am in the midst of repairs right now.
> > >
> > > Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
> > >
> > >
The builder of my AS-29, Herb, was worried about hogging as well. He
wrote to Bolger and got a reply back saying something to the effect
of "...it doesn't much matter where you put the braces - that bottom
is strong! But make sure you support the chines..."
Based on that observation, I am not worrying too much about where my
braces are. I think I remember Herb saying he built the bottom with
the concavity (can't remember if it was on purpose!), so I -
personally- don't think the choice or location of stands/braces will
make much of a difference. On the other hand, a simple bounce in the
slings or a momentary tilt while blocking probably caused the breaks
in the chine sheathing. I am pretty sure it happened to Alisa a long
time ago, maybe even the first year (1995). The real lesson I am
taking from all of this is that a larger radius is good and heavy
reinforcement is important. To help with storage, I'll be trying
four long padded blocks under the chine next time, but there doesn't
seem to be much I can do about the slings.
Frank San Miguel
Wilmington, DE
wrote to Bolger and got a reply back saying something to the effect
of "...it doesn't much matter where you put the braces - that bottom
is strong! But make sure you support the chines..."
Based on that observation, I am not worrying too much about where my
braces are. I think I remember Herb saying he built the bottom with
the concavity (can't remember if it was on purpose!), so I -
personally- don't think the choice or location of stands/braces will
make much of a difference. On the other hand, a simple bounce in the
slings or a momentary tilt while blocking probably caused the breaks
in the chine sheathing. I am pretty sure it happened to Alisa a long
time ago, maybe even the first year (1995). The real lesson I am
taking from all of this is that a larger radius is good and heavy
reinforcement is important. To help with storage, I'll be trying
four long padded blocks under the chine next time, but there doesn't
seem to be much I can do about the slings.
Frank San Miguel
Wilmington, DE
--- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
> Wow! This is good to know. I had planned on marking the location of
> bulkheads, etc. so the yard man would put the slings in the right
> place. I hadn't thought of the weight of the entire boat sitting on
> the chines for the winter.
>
> It would probably be good to locate any winter supports at or very
> near the bulkheads to spread the load away from the chines. I also
> plan on using some jack stands (bought cheap from a yard that was
> closing.) By putting the stands under the ends I am hoping to avoid
> "hogging" during the winters. That might be what created the concave
> warp you noted.
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> > Funny you should mention chine radius just now. I have an early
AS-
> > 29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she
suffers
> > from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings and
> > mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad
ties
> > that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the weight
of
> > the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting down.
This
> > caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may be
that
> > this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per the
> > plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even
more.
> >
> > Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has
caused
> > some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about 1".
> > Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about 3"-
4"
> >
> > I am in the midst of repairs right now.
> >
> > Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
> >
> >
Wow! This is good to know. I had planned on marking the location of
bulkheads, etc. so the yard man would put the slings in the right
place. I hadn't thought of the weight of the entire boat sitting on
the chines for the winter.
It would probably be good to locate any winter supports at or very
near the bulkheads to spread the load away from the chines. I also
plan on using some jack stands (bought cheap from a yard that was
closing.) By putting the stands under the ends I am hoping to avoid
"hogging" during the winters. That might be what created the concave
warp you noted.
bulkheads, etc. so the yard man would put the slings in the right
place. I hadn't thought of the weight of the entire boat sitting on
the chines for the winter.
It would probably be good to locate any winter supports at or very
near the bulkheads to spread the load away from the chines. I also
plan on using some jack stands (bought cheap from a yard that was
closing.) By putting the stands under the ends I am hoping to avoid
"hogging" during the winters. That might be what created the concave
warp you noted.
--- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> Funny you should mention chine radius just now. I have an early AS-
> 29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she suffers
> from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings and
> mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad ties
> that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the weight of
> the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting down. This
> caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may be that
> this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per the
> plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even more.
>
> Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has caused
> some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about 1".
> Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about 3"-4"
>
> I am in the midst of repairs right now.
>
> Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
>
>
Funny you should mention chine radius just now. I have an early AS-
29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she suffers
from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings and
mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad ties
that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the weight of
the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting down. This
caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may be that
this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per the
plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even more.
Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has caused
some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about 1".
Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about 3"-4"
I am in the midst of repairs right now.
Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
Frank
29 (http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html), and she suffers
from cracks in the chine where the boat is loaded on slings and
mounted on blocks for winter storage (she is laid on railroad ties
that are strung crosswise). The wood was crushed by the weight of
the boat, probably as it was tipped unevenly when setting down. This
caused the glass reinforcement to crack. Another problem may be that
this hull has a slight convex shape to it amidships (not per the
plans), which would concentrate the forces on the chines even more.
Over the years the cracks caused leaks and the moisture has caused
some damage to the chine logs. The radius seems to be about 1".
Tahiti's chine radius, a much bigger boat, seems to be about 3"-4"
I am in the midst of repairs right now.
Whatever you choose, put plenty of reinforcement.
Frank
--- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
> In building my AS-29, I've reached the point where it's time to
shape
> the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
> plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
> that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
>
> I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over
the
> place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought
of
> hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with
a
> 1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
>
> Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
> have others done it?
A high speed grinder with a sanding backer and coarse sanding disk, and a great deal of care. Clyde
willers32 wrote:
willers32 wrote:
> In building my AS-29, I've reached the point where it's time to shape
> the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
> plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
> that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
>
> I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over the
> place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought of
> hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with a
> 1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
>
> Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
> have others done it?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Peter:
You and Derek are right about the angle grinder - it is the fastest sanding hand tool, and where one should start on that chore. There is something to be said for making a series of passes, changing to less aggressive tools with each pass. The chine that is going to be glassed wants to be rough but not misshapen, so don't waste time with anything finer than 60 grit.
Chuck
Hello,
One way to really shape wood quickly with relatively little concern
about steel fastenings would be to use a right angle grinder.With
slight modifications and something like a 40 or 60 weight ferous-oxide
paper(disk) the wood/glass/epoxy/bronze likely to be encountered will
easily be removed.
See here for another use of same grinder along with modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/Hollow2.JPG
Wear ear-plugs,safety glasses and gloves when doing this.If I recall
correctly,this tool only required a few passes on each side of my
Micro chines to get a really nice radius.
Experiment on a scape of plywood first to get the feel of how to hold
the grinder and to see just how quickly material is removed!
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan............
You and Derek are right about the angle grinder - it is the fastest sanding hand tool, and where one should start on that chore. There is something to be said for making a series of passes, changing to less aggressive tools with each pass. The chine that is going to be glassed wants to be rough but not misshapen, so don't waste time with anything finer than 60 grit.
Chuck
Hello,
One way to really shape wood quickly with relatively little concern
about steel fastenings would be to use a right angle grinder.With
slight modifications and something like a 40 or 60 weight ferous-oxide
paper(disk) the wood/glass/epoxy/bronze likely to be encountered will
easily be removed.
See here for another use of same grinder along with modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/Hollow2.JPG
Wear ear-plugs,safety glasses and gloves when doing this.If I recall
correctly,this tool only required a few passes on each side of my
Micro chines to get a really nice radius.
Experiment on a scape of plywood first to get the feel of how to hold
the grinder and to see just how quickly material is removed!
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan............
--- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
>
> Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
> have others done it?
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a 1.5" radius router bit for that. A few
minutes of using it, and its back to the sander
polisher. If you have a power plane, you can put a 45
on in seconds then do both 22.5s. I usualy do three
pases at 45 and one each at 22.5, when softening the
edge of cabinetry. That should work with a power
plane, except put as many passes as necesary at 45,
then 1/3 those passes at the 22.5s.
To figure out how large to go (I just do it by feel
usualy, but sometimes I need to see it first) draw a
section of the various pieces of ply, and the stringer
or cove on the inside. Figure out how much material
you can remove, for epoxy, I want at least 150% of the
thinnest adjascent panel.draw the 45deg that exposes
that, and you can also pick a radius that just fits
the 45. Measure the width of the 45, and that is your
starting point for the cuts. Usualy however, the kind
of radius wanted doesn't call for the removal of
anywhere near that amount of material.
On a 90 deg corner, my math tells me that if you want
a 1 inch radius, the 45 deg starter flat will be .88",
which you can scale up or down for any radius.
--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck_dm@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I'm kind of lazy about boat building - I just want to
get on the water. I usually radius the chines
just enough to be able to bend the glass around
it.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
minutes of using it, and its back to the sander
polisher. If you have a power plane, you can put a 45
on in seconds then do both 22.5s. I usualy do three
pases at 45 and one each at 22.5, when softening the
edge of cabinetry. That should work with a power
plane, except put as many passes as necesary at 45,
then 1/3 those passes at the 22.5s.
To figure out how large to go (I just do it by feel
usualy, but sometimes I need to see it first) draw a
section of the various pieces of ply, and the stringer
or cove on the inside. Figure out how much material
you can remove, for epoxy, I want at least 150% of the
thinnest adjascent panel.draw the 45deg that exposes
that, and you can also pick a radius that just fits
the 45. Measure the width of the 45, and that is your
starting point for the cuts. Usualy however, the kind
of radius wanted doesn't call for the removal of
anywhere near that amount of material.
On a 90 deg corner, my math tells me that if you want
a 1 inch radius, the 45 deg starter flat will be .88",
which you can scale up or down for any radius.
--- Chuck Leinweber <chuck_dm@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I'm kind of lazy about boat building - I just want to
get on the water. I usually radius the chines
just enough to be able to bend the glass around
it.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
Hello,
One way to really shape wood quickly with relatively little concern
about steel fastenings would be to use a right angle grinder.With
slight modifications and something like a 40 or 60 weight ferous-oxide
paper(disk) the wood/glass/epoxy/bronze likely to be encountered will
easily be removed.
See here for another use of same grinder along with modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/Hollow2.JPG
Wear ear-plugs,safety glasses and gloves when doing this.If I recall
correctly,this tool only required a few passes on each side of my
Micro chines to get a really nice radius.
Experiment on a scape of plywood first to get the feel of how to hold
the grinder and to see just how quickly material is removed!
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan............
One way to really shape wood quickly with relatively little concern
about steel fastenings would be to use a right angle grinder.With
slight modifications and something like a 40 or 60 weight ferous-oxide
paper(disk) the wood/glass/epoxy/bronze likely to be encountered will
easily be removed.
See here for another use of same grinder along with modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/Hollow2.JPG
Wear ear-plugs,safety glasses and gloves when doing this.If I recall
correctly,this tool only required a few passes on each side of my
Micro chines to get a really nice radius.
Experiment on a scape of plywood first to get the feel of how to hold
the grinder and to see just how quickly material is removed!
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan............
--- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
>
> Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
> have others done it?
This weekend I was working under the boat cutting the radius on the bottom
edge of Micro's keel.
Along with Chuck, I'd vote for a smaller radius. 1/2" radius router bits are
easier. Carbide bits cut bronze fasteners without difficulty. Use abrasive
methods for any sections that look too scary to rout. Since being introduced
to the joys of sanding with an angle grinder I've used my belt sander less
than before. The angle grinder is lighter to hold up to the job and gets
into awkward corners, but it is ferocious - a light touch is needed :)
Cheers
Derek
edge of Micro's keel.
Along with Chuck, I'd vote for a smaller radius. 1/2" radius router bits are
easier. Carbide bits cut bronze fasteners without difficulty. Use abrasive
methods for any sections that look too scary to rout. Since being introduced
to the joys of sanding with an angle grinder I've used my belt sander less
than before. The angle grinder is lighter to hold up to the job and gets
into awkward corners, but it is ferocious - a light touch is needed :)
Cheers
Derek
I'm kind of lazy about boat building - I just want to get on the water. I usually radius the chines just enough to be able to bend the glass around it. I don't think that there is enough performance difference between a 1/2" radius and a 2" radius to shake a stick at. I like a belt sander with 36grit cloth.
Chuck
In building my AS-29, I've reached the point where it's time to shape
the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over the
place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought of
hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with a
1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
have others done it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chuck
In building my AS-29, I've reached the point where it's time to shape
the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over the
place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought of
hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with a
1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
have others done it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In building my AS-29, I've reached the point where it's time to shape
the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over the
place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought of
hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with a
1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
have others done it?
the chine radius. When I built my Micro, I did it all by hand with a
plane and lots of sand paper. The thought of doing more than twice
that job by hand doesn't appeal to me.
I've thought of using a router, but with metal fasteners all over the
place, up to and including 1/4" bronze carriage bolts, the thought of
hitting one with the router bit doesn't seem safe. Router bits with a
1" radius are hard to find and expensive.
Any ideas on a relatively quick way of shaping the chine radius? How
have others done it?