Re: [bolger] Epoxy - "potting", drilling?
In a message dated 5/28/02 6:37:37 AM Central Daylight Time,
clydewis@...writes:
"Excellent for bedding (stuff) that you may want to remove at some time".
3M's 5200 is "forever", more or less.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
clydewis@...writes:
> Is "marine silicone caulk" 5200? ClydeNOOOOO!!! I have West Marine's house brand silicone sealant, touted as being
>
"Excellent for bedding (stuff) that you may want to remove at some time".
3M's 5200 is "forever", more or less.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nope. 5200 is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant. Silicone is far different.
Much less adhesive, more of a gasket type material. The West Marine home
page has a pretty fair write-up on the type of sealants (www.westmarine.com)
in their West marine Advisors section.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Much less adhesive, more of a gasket type material. The West Marine home
page has a pretty fair write-up on the type of sealants (www.westmarine.com)
in their West marine Advisors section.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde S. Wisner" <clydewis@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Epoxy - "potting", drilling?
> Is "marine silicone caulk" 5200? Clyde
>
> wmrpage wrote:
>
> > I'd like to pick the brains of all the experienced epoxy-daubers out
> > there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom insert in an
> > aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement out of 3/4" A/C
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Is "marine silicone caulk" 5200? Clyde
wmrpage wrote:
wmrpage wrote:
> I'd like to pick the brains of all the experienced epoxy-daubers out
> there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom insert in an
> aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement out of 3/4" A/C
If you haven't already installed the transom, here's an idea that
wouldn't be a whole lot of work. Drill all the holes nominal, then
tape them over on one side of the transom. Lay it flat and fill all
the holes with thin epoxy. Go back and fill in a few minutes later,
maybe a couple of times, to make sure they soak in thoroughly. You
could make a little dam out of clay or something to provide a
reservior above the hole so you don't have to refill so much. Come
back when the epoxy gets kind of thick, but is still very soft, and
poke out the holes and generally clean up. Obviously, the timing is
critical.
Might be good to do the borate thing (look up Carnell's page) in the
holes first if you have time to let them dry.
wouldn't be a whole lot of work. Drill all the holes nominal, then
tape them over on one side of the transom. Lay it flat and fill all
the holes with thin epoxy. Go back and fill in a few minutes later,
maybe a couple of times, to make sure they soak in thoroughly. You
could make a little dam out of clay or something to provide a
reservior above the hole so you don't have to refill so much. Come
back when the epoxy gets kind of thick, but is still very soft, and
poke out the holes and generally clean up. Obviously, the timing is
critical.
Might be good to do the borate thing (look up Carnell's page) in the
holes first if you have time to let them dry.
By the way, if you use something nice for the drilling
like a forstner bit in a drill press, and set the stop
so only the point penetrates the far side, then you
would be left with a tiny hole, and a membrane of
wood. Seal this with making tape, and you won't have
much for the epoxy to come through. It will penetrate
well enough that that wood will be just fine, or you
could remove the membrane just before glassing.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
like a forstner bit in a drill press, and set the stop
so only the point penetrates the far side, then you
would be left with a tiny hole, and a membrane of
wood. Seal this with making tape, and you won't have
much for the epoxy to come through. It will penetrate
well enough that that wood will be just fine, or you
could remove the membrane just before glassing.
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
I would drill hole in the wood, over size, and then
fill them with epoxy. Can't see a problem at all
masking tape will suffice, or clamping the piece to
plywood (or series of same), with some parting film
like saran wrap. Or both strategies. Use some filler
with the epoxy, like fumed silica, to stop the epoxy
from running, and that will reduce it capacity to push
out every crack. Then drill the holes as you suggest.
Epoxy is lovely stuff to drill, and you shouldn't
have any difficulty. This should be a really durable
repair. The only thing better would be to sheath the
whole unit in glass before the second drilling.
--- wmrpage <wmrpage@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I'd like to pick the brains of all the experienced
epoxy-daubers out <BR>
there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom
insert in an <BR>
aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement
out of 3/4" A/C <BR>
exterior fir plywood with West brand epoxy and
encapsulated it with <BR>
the same. This was all very satisfying and makes an
impressive chunk <BR>
of lumber. However, there is a fly in the ointment, so
to speak, to <BR>
wit:<BR>
<BR>
The plywood insert forms the core of a
"sandwich" between the <BR>
aluminum transom and assorted aluminum brackets inside
the boat that <BR>
distribute the loads from the transom to the hull. The
"sandwich" is <BR>
held together with 18 1/4" SS machine screws that
pass all the way <BR>
through the "sandwich". This makes 18 holes
where water can get into <BR>
the plys. Not good! (This was the cause of death of
the original <BR>
insert.)<BR>
<BR>
So what's the best solution for sealing all these
holes? If I could <BR>
stand the boat up on its transom, I might be able to
"pot" the <BR>
fittings a la recommendations in one of Gougeon's
product guides, but <BR>
tipping the boat on end is not a practical option.<BR>
<BR>
The easiest approach I can think of would be to just
drill the holes <BR>
in situ, squirt them full of marine silicone caulk,
push the screws <BR>
through, tighten them down and be done with it. Do you
think this <BR>
would be adequate?<BR>
<BR>
I've also considered drilling all the holes in situ,
removing the <BR>
insert and re-boring the holes oversize, then filling
them with epoxy <BR>
and high-density filler, re-installing the insert,
re-drilling the <BR>
hoes to correct size, pumping in some silicone caulk
and bolting the <BR>
whole works together. I'm not sure how
"drillable" epoxy is however. <BR>
I wonder if the heat of the drill bit would just
soften the expoxy <BR>
enough to make a sticky mess? I'd also need to block
the "bottom" <BR>
ends of all the holes (insert lying horizontal on saw
horses) to keep <BR>
the epoxy from running out when wetting-out and
stuffing with the <BR>
thick stuff. Would ordinary masking tape suffice? Or
would its <BR>
adhesive react the expoxy in some bad fashion?<BR>
<BR>
Do you have an better ideas? I plan to finish the job
by one <BR>
expedient or another next weekend. Apart from getting
as much water-<BR>
tight integrity as possibile, I do NOT want to bond
the insert to the <BR>
aluminum components. (Might want to remove it some day
for some <BR>
reason or another.) Also, the pot life of epoxy has to
be kept in <BR>
mind. There are 18 of these little holes to fill, and
each screw is <BR>
its own fussy little problem.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance,<BR>
Ciao for Niao,<BR>
Bill in MN<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
fill them with epoxy. Can't see a problem at all
masking tape will suffice, or clamping the piece to
plywood (or series of same), with some parting film
like saran wrap. Or both strategies. Use some filler
with the epoxy, like fumed silica, to stop the epoxy
from running, and that will reduce it capacity to push
out every crack. Then drill the holes as you suggest.
Epoxy is lovely stuff to drill, and you shouldn't
have any difficulty. This should be a really durable
repair. The only thing better would be to sheath the
whole unit in glass before the second drilling.
--- wmrpage <wmrpage@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I'd like to pick the brains of all the experienced
epoxy-daubers out <BR>
there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom
insert in an <BR>
aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement
out of 3/4" A/C <BR>
exterior fir plywood with West brand epoxy and
encapsulated it with <BR>
the same. This was all very satisfying and makes an
impressive chunk <BR>
of lumber. However, there is a fly in the ointment, so
to speak, to <BR>
wit:<BR>
<BR>
The plywood insert forms the core of a
"sandwich" between the <BR>
aluminum transom and assorted aluminum brackets inside
the boat that <BR>
distribute the loads from the transom to the hull. The
"sandwich" is <BR>
held together with 18 1/4" SS machine screws that
pass all the way <BR>
through the "sandwich". This makes 18 holes
where water can get into <BR>
the plys. Not good! (This was the cause of death of
the original <BR>
insert.)<BR>
<BR>
So what's the best solution for sealing all these
holes? If I could <BR>
stand the boat up on its transom, I might be able to
"pot" the <BR>
fittings a la recommendations in one of Gougeon's
product guides, but <BR>
tipping the boat on end is not a practical option.<BR>
<BR>
The easiest approach I can think of would be to just
drill the holes <BR>
in situ, squirt them full of marine silicone caulk,
push the screws <BR>
through, tighten them down and be done with it. Do you
think this <BR>
would be adequate?<BR>
<BR>
I've also considered drilling all the holes in situ,
removing the <BR>
insert and re-boring the holes oversize, then filling
them with epoxy <BR>
and high-density filler, re-installing the insert,
re-drilling the <BR>
hoes to correct size, pumping in some silicone caulk
and bolting the <BR>
whole works together. I'm not sure how
"drillable" epoxy is however. <BR>
I wonder if the heat of the drill bit would just
soften the expoxy <BR>
enough to make a sticky mess? I'd also need to block
the "bottom" <BR>
ends of all the holes (insert lying horizontal on saw
horses) to keep <BR>
the epoxy from running out when wetting-out and
stuffing with the <BR>
thick stuff. Would ordinary masking tape suffice? Or
would its <BR>
adhesive react the expoxy in some bad fashion?<BR>
<BR>
Do you have an better ideas? I plan to finish the job
by one <BR>
expedient or another next weekend. Apart from getting
as much water-<BR>
tight integrity as possibile, I do NOT want to bond
the insert to the <BR>
aluminum components. (Might want to remove it some day
for some <BR>
reason or another.) Also, the pot life of epoxy has to
be kept in <BR>
mind. There are 18 of these little holes to fill, and
each screw is <BR>
its own fussy little problem.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance,<BR>
Ciao for Niao,<BR>
Bill in MN<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>
<tt>
Bolger rules!!!<BR>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses<BR>
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate<BR>
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like<BR>
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349<BR>
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>
</body></html>
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date!http://personals.yahoo.ca
This should work, if you did it just a hair oversize I wouldn't worry
about fillers. Just swabbing around the inside of the original holes
with an ear swab or pipe cleaner and epoxy would probably seal good
enough.
You could also drill oversize, plug with epoxied dowels and redrill, if
you get rot it should only go to the edge of the dowel. I saw somebody
do this with a new spruce mast once. This climate (Pacific NW) is very
hard on wood, and they fit all the pieces on the mast, and then took
them all of, drilled out all the holes and plugged them and refit all
the parts.
It seemed like a good idea to me, as I have seen a relatively new mast
(10 Years) that looked good come down with rot that had started in a
fitting screw hole.
HJ
about fillers. Just swabbing around the inside of the original holes
with an ear swab or pipe cleaner and epoxy would probably seal good
enough.
You could also drill oversize, plug with epoxied dowels and redrill, if
you get rot it should only go to the edge of the dowel. I saw somebody
do this with a new spruce mast once. This climate (Pacific NW) is very
hard on wood, and they fit all the pieces on the mast, and then took
them all of, drilled out all the holes and plugged them and refit all
the parts.
It seemed like a good idea to me, as I have seen a relatively new mast
(10 Years) that looked good come down with rot that had started in a
fitting screw hole.
HJ
> I've also considered drilling all the holes in situ, removing the
> insert and re-boring the holes oversize, then filling them with epoxy
> and high-density filler, re-installing the insert, re-drilling the
> hoes to correct size, pumping in some silicone caulk and bolting the
> whole works together. I'm not sure how "drillable" epoxy is however.
> I wonder if the heat of the drill bit would just soften the expoxy
> enough to make a sticky mess? I'd also need to block the "bottom"
> ends of all the holes (insert lying horizontal on saw horses) to keep
> the epoxy from running out when wetting-out and stuffing with the
> thick stuff. Would ordinary masking tape suffice? Or would its
> adhesive react the expoxy in some bad fashion?
>
I'd like to pick the brains of all the experienced epoxy-daubers out
there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom insert in an
aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement out of 3/4" A/C
exterior fir plywood with West brand epoxy and encapsulated it with
the same. This was all very satisfying and makes an impressive chunk
of lumber. However, there is a fly in the ointment, so to speak, to
wit:
The plywood insert forms the core of a "sandwich" between the
aluminum transom and assorted aluminum brackets inside the boat that
distribute the loads from the transom to the hull. The "sandwich" is
held together with 18 1/4" SS machine screws that pass all the way
through the "sandwich". This makes 18 holes where water can get into
the plys. Not good! (This was the cause of death of the original
insert.)
So what's the best solution for sealing all these holes? If I could
stand the boat up on its transom, I might be able to "pot" the
fittings a la recommendations in one of Gougeon's product guides, but
tipping the boat on end is not a practical option.
The easiest approach I can think of would be to just drill the holes
in situ, squirt them full of marine silicone caulk, push the screws
through, tighten them down and be done with it. Do you think this
would be adequate?
I've also considered drilling all the holes in situ, removing the
insert and re-boring the holes oversize, then filling them with epoxy
and high-density filler, re-installing the insert, re-drilling the
hoes to correct size, pumping in some silicone caulk and bolting the
whole works together. I'm not sure how "drillable" epoxy is however.
I wonder if the heat of the drill bit would just soften the expoxy
enough to make a sticky mess? I'd also need to block the "bottom"
ends of all the holes (insert lying horizontal on saw horses) to keep
the epoxy from running out when wetting-out and stuffing with the
thick stuff. Would ordinary masking tape suffice? Or would its
adhesive react the expoxy in some bad fashion?
Do you have an better ideas? I plan to finish the job by one
expedient or another next weekend. Apart from getting as much water-
tight integrity as possibile, I do NOT want to bond the insert to the
aluminum components. (Might want to remove it some day for some
reason or another.) Also, the pot life of epoxy has to be kept in
mind. There are 18 of these little holes to fill, and each screw is
its own fussy little problem.
Thanks in advance,
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
there. I'm replacing a laminated plywood transom insert in an
aluminum (Boo!) boat. I've laminated the replacement out of 3/4" A/C
exterior fir plywood with West brand epoxy and encapsulated it with
the same. This was all very satisfying and makes an impressive chunk
of lumber. However, there is a fly in the ointment, so to speak, to
wit:
The plywood insert forms the core of a "sandwich" between the
aluminum transom and assorted aluminum brackets inside the boat that
distribute the loads from the transom to the hull. The "sandwich" is
held together with 18 1/4" SS machine screws that pass all the way
through the "sandwich". This makes 18 holes where water can get into
the plys. Not good! (This was the cause of death of the original
insert.)
So what's the best solution for sealing all these holes? If I could
stand the boat up on its transom, I might be able to "pot" the
fittings a la recommendations in one of Gougeon's product guides, but
tipping the boat on end is not a practical option.
The easiest approach I can think of would be to just drill the holes
in situ, squirt them full of marine silicone caulk, push the screws
through, tighten them down and be done with it. Do you think this
would be adequate?
I've also considered drilling all the holes in situ, removing the
insert and re-boring the holes oversize, then filling them with epoxy
and high-density filler, re-installing the insert, re-drilling the
hoes to correct size, pumping in some silicone caulk and bolting the
whole works together. I'm not sure how "drillable" epoxy is however.
I wonder if the heat of the drill bit would just soften the expoxy
enough to make a sticky mess? I'd also need to block the "bottom"
ends of all the holes (insert lying horizontal on saw horses) to keep
the epoxy from running out when wetting-out and stuffing with the
thick stuff. Would ordinary masking tape suffice? Or would its
adhesive react the expoxy in some bad fashion?
Do you have an better ideas? I plan to finish the job by one
expedient or another next weekend. Apart from getting as much water-
tight integrity as possibile, I do NOT want to bond the insert to the
aluminum components. (Might want to remove it some day for some
reason or another.) Also, the pot life of epoxy has to be kept in
mind. There are 18 of these little holes to fill, and each screw is
its own fussy little problem.
Thanks in advance,
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN