Re: [bolger] Re: Gull Photos
More hardener will give you softer and presumably weaker epoxy. I,
for one, wouldn't want to get into any seat of the pants adjustment
of hardener ratios.
OTH, varying fast and slow hardener within the 2:1 resin and hardener
mix has worked very well for me. When I first started using the resin
I used slow hardener exclusively so that I wouldn't find myself in
"panic" mode and end up doing stupid things or loosing big batches of
expensive glue.
As my confidence and experience increase I've moved steadily toward
the faster hardener, especially for small batches. But whenever I get
into an operation that I think might get tricky, I revert to slow
hardener.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
for one, wouldn't want to get into any seat of the pants adjustment
of hardener ratios.
OTH, varying fast and slow hardener within the 2:1 resin and hardener
mix has worked very well for me. When I first started using the resin
I used slow hardener exclusively so that I wouldn't find myself in
"panic" mode and end up doing stupid things or loosing big batches of
expensive glue.
As my confidence and experience increase I've moved steadily toward
the faster hardener, especially for small batches. But whenever I get
into an operation that I think might get tricky, I revert to slow
hardener.
>With RAKA, you can adjust the hardener to get the properties you want. MoreC.E.P.
>hardener will make it softer I believe and less makes it harder. Maybe
>adjusting hardener my very small amounts will give you what your want in a
>cured epoxy.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
With RAKA, you can adjust the hardener to get the properties you want. More
hardener will make it softer I believe and less makes it harder. Maybe
adjusting hardener my very small amounts will give you what your want in a
cured epoxy.
Jeff
hardener will make it softer I believe and less makes it harder. Maybe
adjusting hardener my very small amounts will give you what your want in a
cured epoxy.
Jeff
<snip> And the surface hardness is about what I
remember getting from Raka -- pretty hard, just not quite so rock
hard as I tend to get with West. <snip>
Sue
Sue:
The relative hardness of cured epoxy is sort of hard to guage without specialized instruments, but speaking theoretically, don't you want some flexibility in the resin so that the finished boat will have some 'give'? It seems to me that too much 'hardness' would lead to breakage. I have heard some that were more knowledgable than me talk about matching the elasticity of the resin to the fibers. I guess glass and carbon and wood all have different characteristics that seem to require different resin characteristics....Ok, now I'm rambling.
Chuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
remember getting from Raka -- pretty hard, just not quite so rock
hard as I tend to get with West. <snip>
Sue
Sue:
The relative hardness of cured epoxy is sort of hard to guage without specialized instruments, but speaking theoretically, don't you want some flexibility in the resin so that the finished boat will have some 'give'? It seems to me that too much 'hardness' would lead to breakage. I have heard some that were more knowledgable than me talk about matching the elasticity of the resin to the fibers. I guess glass and carbon and wood all have different characteristics that seem to require different resin characteristics....Ok, now I'm rambling.
Chuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there's still one
like love at first sight...
difference in size of the side and transom panels, then you apply
camber drawing technique from Rable page 45 of Ship and Aircraft
Lofting, or look the same method up in the gougeon bros on boad
construction, decks chapter. I broke this method into factors: If a
curve is one inch high for 24" of width, the height at 18" and 30" on
the base line is .956, the other quarters are .736, .417, and 0.
These were pulled from drawings and are as close as I can get them.
These can be applied to any proportion, and once you have the points
they can be faired with a batten.
Mathematicaly you can work out the radius from the same inputs. It
is often awkward to work from a radius, since the radius can be too
long to draw. In those cases you can sometimes draw the circle in
cad, and just print out the short section you want.
> spot along the starboard chine between the forward and center seatsThat has to be mixing doesn't it? I mean "Part A" and "Part B", it's
> that hasn't cured yet.
like love at first sight...
> The transom required some head scratching. The plans are difficultIf it is an arc, and you can tell how high and wide it is from the
> to get dimensions from, and Payson's book is a little confusing,
> too. (Is it 31 1/4" or 31 1/8" from bottom to top of crown?) I'm
> still not sure exactly how to come up with the top arc, if there's
> a canonical amount of round to use.
difference in size of the side and transom panels, then you apply
camber drawing technique from Rable page 45 of Ship and Aircraft
Lofting, or look the same method up in the gougeon bros on boad
construction, decks chapter. I broke this method into factors: If a
curve is one inch high for 24" of width, the height at 18" and 30" on
the base line is .956, the other quarters are .736, .417, and 0.
These were pulled from drawings and are as close as I can get them.
These can be applied to any proportion, and once you have the points
they can be faired with a batten.
Mathematicaly you can work out the radius from the same inputs. It
is often awkward to work from a radius, since the radius can be too
long to draw. In those cases you can sometimes draw the circle in
cad, and just print out the short section you want.
> FWIW: Whatever people's poor experiences with Raka Epoxy have been,The epoxy on my boat has blushed like crazy, and there's still one
> mine have been quite excellent.
spot along the starboard chine between the forward and center seats
that hasn't cured yet. And the surface hardness is about what I
remember getting from Raka -- pretty hard, just not quite so rock
hard as I tend to get with West. But all in all, it's good enough,
given the price difference, and I'll probably order from them when
I get the supplies to finish the rest of the boat.
> As Sue mentioned, the maple flour is a veryOther random observations:
> welcome addition to the arsenal.
The bottom can be made out of a single sheet of plywood, without
resorting to the 1" shims that Payson mentions in his book. We
ripped one sheet into 23" and 25" sections, and ran the 25" section
from the base of the stem back 8' to the area between the center
and aft seats, at which point the beam at the chines is 23" or
less. A nice side effect of this is that the butt block winds
up right about where my feet naturally want to go when I'm sitting
on the center thwart.
The transom required some head scratching. The plans are difficult
to get dimensions from, and Payson's book is a little confusing,
too. (Is it 31 1/4" or 31 1/8" from bottom to top of crown?) I'm
still not sure exactly how to come up with the top arc, if there's
a canonical amount of round to use. And we screwed mine up by not
fastening the solid stock flush to the edges of the plywood, rather
than leaving it proud enough to take the bevel that needed to be
cut in it. (Which is why you can see two big goopy fillets of
maple floured epoxy at my transom edges.)
And something has gotten really screwy with the price of wood
lately -- my finished boat is going to have gunwales and foot
braces of solid clear mahogany, not because we went shopping
for premium quality hardwood, but because clear mahogany was
actually cheaper than clear pine. (I'd have a mahogany skeg,
too, but I screwed up and cut the foot braces from the wrong
part of the wrong piece of stock.)
> We're due for a stretch of poor weather and I've got a short filmI'm in the same boat, pardon the pun. I de-wired the bow and
> to cut over the next couple of weeks, so there may not be any more
> progress on my yet to be named dory until this weekend.
backed out the lion's share of the temporary drywall screws last
night, but other than that, my boat is in pretty much the same
state as it was when it got home. Part of that is lack of time,
the other part is that I have no epoxy or glass in the house at
the moment, and it'll be the end of the week before I have any
budget to order some.
And part is just plain old procrastination, which is why I was
pushing so hard to get as much as possible done while I was in
Montauk. Being nine hours away from any distractions and having
a firm deadline really helped me focus in ways that it's hard to
do now that I'm home.
-- Sue --
(I'll get around to procrastinating later :-) )
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
FBBB --
I've put up another progress photo at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/gullapalooza/halffaired.jpg
To get the boat to this point I've glassed it with over lapping
layers of 5 oz. satin weave cloth, cleaned up the mess that made with
grinder (36 grit) and sander (50 grit), then skimmed the whole thing
with Raka epoxy mixed with WEST system fairing compound, and then
sanded that with a long board (40 grit) and sander (50 grit)
As expected the fine weave of the cloth filled very easily and if my
glass job wasn't so sloppy, I'd be done now. As it is, the builder in
me wants to do another pass with the fairing compound and the
fisherman in me just want to glue in the seat and chines and go kill
some fish.
FWIW: Whatever people's poor experiences with Raka Epoxy have been,
mine have been quite excellent. My Light Scooner is going on 2 years
of constant exposure and all epoxy elements seem just fine. The
laminate (ply, glass/epoxy, porch paint) in particular is in
amazingly good shape.
Between the fast and slow hardeners and a wide variety of fillers, I
can get all manner of specialized goops that behave more or less the
way I want them too. As Sue mentioned, the maple flour is a very
welcome addition to the arsenal. It seems to give the potion a
"stickiness" that glass and epoxy alone lack, and made gluing my boat
together very easy. As a result I am now profoundly unintimidated by
the tack and tape method. I may never cut another chine log again.
We're due for a stretch of poor weather and I've got a short film to
cut over the next couple of weeks, so there may not be any more
progress on my yet to be named dory until this weekend. For no the
fish are safe -- but not for long!
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I've put up another progress photo at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/gullapalooza/halffaired.jpg
To get the boat to this point I've glassed it with over lapping
layers of 5 oz. satin weave cloth, cleaned up the mess that made with
grinder (36 grit) and sander (50 grit), then skimmed the whole thing
with Raka epoxy mixed with WEST system fairing compound, and then
sanded that with a long board (40 grit) and sander (50 grit)
As expected the fine weave of the cloth filled very easily and if my
glass job wasn't so sloppy, I'd be done now. As it is, the builder in
me wants to do another pass with the fairing compound and the
fisherman in me just want to glue in the seat and chines and go kill
some fish.
FWIW: Whatever people's poor experiences with Raka Epoxy have been,
mine have been quite excellent. My Light Scooner is going on 2 years
of constant exposure and all epoxy elements seem just fine. The
laminate (ply, glass/epoxy, porch paint) in particular is in
amazingly good shape.
Between the fast and slow hardeners and a wide variety of fillers, I
can get all manner of specialized goops that behave more or less the
way I want them too. As Sue mentioned, the maple flour is a very
welcome addition to the arsenal. It seems to give the potion a
"stickiness" that glass and epoxy alone lack, and made gluing my boat
together very easy. As a result I am now profoundly unintimidated by
the tack and tape method. I may never cut another chine log again.
We're due for a stretch of poor weather and I've got a short film to
cut over the next couple of weeks, so there may not be any more
progress on my yet to be named dory until this weekend. For no the
fish are safe -- but not for long!
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296