Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
In a message dated 6/13/02 11:29:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
mike_vacanti@...writes:
notion from ignominy? :-)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mike_vacanti@...writes:
> This works outIf I filled my hypothetical pop bottles with helium, would this save my
> to $1.37 per liter of expanded foam (not including shipping).
notion from ignominy? :-)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 6/13/02 10:13:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
submersibles, raceboats (skulls?) surface effect vessels and amphibious
vehicles are exempt from all requirements except for hull identification
numbers" Power boats 20' long or longer and inboard auxiliary sailboats
aren't required to meet any flotation standards. - at least per
COMDTPUB16761.3B
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lincolnr@...writes:
> I"Sailboats (except inboard auxilaries), canoes, kayaks, inflatables,
> think canoes and sailboats get a free pass. Seems like some rowboats
> should, too, but as I recall they don't.
submersibles, raceboats (skulls?) surface effect vessels and amphibious
vehicles are exempt from all requirements except for hull identification
numbers" Power boats 20' long or longer and inboard auxiliary sailboats
aren't required to meet any flotation standards. - at least per
COMDTPUB16761.3B
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 6/13/02 9:49:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
david@...writes:
Builders". Flotation is definitely a requirement, but it can be satisfied by
"air chambers", as long as the hull doesn't comprise part of the chamber. I
guess pop bottles would qualify as air chambers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
david@...writes:
> What the Coast Guard cares about is *very* limited when it comes toWell, the USCG sent me a free copy of "Safety Standards For Backyard Boat
> privately owned pleasure craft --
Builders". Flotation is definitely a requirement, but it can be satisfied by
"air chambers", as long as the hull doesn't comprise part of the chamber. I
guess pop bottles would qualify as air chambers.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>http://www.uscg.mil/d8/mso/louisville/WebStuff/comdtpubp16761_3b.pdfWow there really is such a thing!
Has there been any talk about what is going to happen to boaters when
all this stuff ends up in the Homeland Security?
Regarding milk bottles, think of them as a collapsable foam extender:
1) They will take up space, so extend the foam = less expensive foam.
2.) Collapse if the foam wants to build up pressure, thereby relieving the
pressure = no popped decks, etc.
Alternate the orientation of the milk containers, to stop water leaking into
them.That way some will be upside down which ever way the hull settles to
when it is swamped.
3.) or use mainly fizzy drink bottles and use a few milk bottles to do the
job as stated in 2.)
Ofcourse this comes from someone who has never used the stuff and therefor
the value of above stated info is directly proportional to the someone's
experience.8>)
regards
Paul-NZ
"Just Fun" - Hartley TS16
1) They will take up space, so extend the foam = less expensive foam.
2.) Collapse if the foam wants to build up pressure, thereby relieving the
pressure = no popped decks, etc.
Alternate the orientation of the milk containers, to stop water leaking into
them.That way some will be upside down which ever way the hull settles to
when it is swamped.
3.) or use mainly fizzy drink bottles and use a few milk bottles to do the
job as stated in 2.)
Ofcourse this comes from someone who has never used the stuff and therefor
the value of above stated info is directly proportional to the someone's
experience.8>)
regards
Paul-NZ
"Just Fun" - Hartley TS16
Jeff wrote:
bottles.
Builders"
http://www.uscg.mil/d8/mso/louisville/WebStuff/comdtpubp16761_3b.pdf
neither approves nor prohibits any material for flotation. There are rules
for resistance to fuel, for flotation in the bilge. I've occasionally used
these bottles for gasoline, so they're probably OK even there.
compartment, with no concerns about rot or waterlogging of the foam. Just
put a drain plug at the bottom, and open it occasionally. You can also
remove the bottles easily later, through a 6" hatch. (No need to cut out the
hatch 'til later)
Curtis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Per liter of displacement, the urethane works out to about $15.00. AThey're $.05 each around here. We drink lots of seltzer, mostly in 2-liter
> plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
bottles.
> A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to be?Not sure if this was already posted: "Safety Standards for Backyard Boat
Builders"
http://www.uscg.mil/d8/mso/louisville/WebStuff/comdtpubp16761_3b.pdf
neither approves nor prohibits any material for flotation. There are rules
for resistance to fuel, for flotation in the bilge. I've occasionally used
these bottles for gasoline, so they're probably OK even there.
> Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and useExactly what I do. I figure you can fill over 80% of the volume of the
> not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but that's
> usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work? Isn't it
> all about displacing water?
compartment, with no concerns about rot or waterlogging of the foam. Just
put a drain plug at the bottom, and open it occasionally. You can also
remove the bottles easily later, through a 6" hatch. (No need to cut out the
hatch 'til later)
Curtis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bad math......
$1.50 is the proper amount.
Jeff
$1.50 is the proper amount.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "dvacanti" <mike_vacanti@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
> On the fiberglass coatings web site the price for 2 gallons of 2 lb
> foam is $48.00. The foam will expand to 8 cubic feet. This works out
> to $1.37 per liter of expanded foam (not including shipping). Where
> were you getting the foam that costs $15.00 per expanded liter?
>
> Mike
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > Per liter of displacement, the urethane works out to about $15.00.
> A
> > plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
> >
> > A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to
> be?
> >
> > Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and
> and use
> > not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but
> that's
> > usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work?
> Isn't it
> > all about displacing water?
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
On the fiberglass coatings web site the price for 2 gallons of 2 lb
foam is $48.00. The foam will expand to 8 cubic feet. This works out
to $1.37 per liter of expanded foam (not including shipping). Where
were you getting the foam that costs $15.00 per expanded liter?
Mike
foam is $48.00. The foam will expand to 8 cubic feet. This works out
to $1.37 per liter of expanded foam (not including shipping). Where
were you getting the foam that costs $15.00 per expanded liter?
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Per liter of displacement, the urethane works out to about $15.00.
A
> plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
>
> A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to
be?
>
> Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and
and use
> not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but
that's
> usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work?
Isn't it
> all about displacing water?
>
> Jeff
There's definitely something about being able to support the rated
load with the boat swamped, at least for some kinds of small boats. I
think canoes and sailboats get a free pass. Seems like some rowboats
should, too, but as I recall they don't. No single scull meets the
requirements!
load with the boat swamped, at least for some kinds of small boats. I
think canoes and sailboats get a free pass. Seems like some rowboats
should, too, but as I recall they don't. No single scull meets the
requirements!
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> Coast Guard approved? snip
> What the Coast Guard cares about is *very* limited when it comes to
> privately owned pleasure craft -- snipI'm no expert on the
regulations, but I don't think
> they're going to care if you fill your buoyancy chambers with foam,
> cow dung, or lead.
Coast Guard approved? There are plenty of boats (steel commercial
fishing boats) around here that would sink like a stone if they
flooded.
What the Coast Guard cares about is *very* limited when it comes to
privately owned pleasure craft -- mostly PFDs and fire hazard (fuel
storage, systems, etc) and safety/navigation signalling. It's pretty
easy to look up. I'm no expert on the regulations, but I don't think
they're going to care if you fill your buoyancy chambers with foam,
cow dung, or lead.
Read for yourself and make up your own mind at:
http://www.uscgboating.org/
YIBB,
David
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
fishing boats) around here that would sink like a stone if they
flooded.
What the Coast Guard cares about is *very* limited when it comes to
privately owned pleasure craft -- mostly PFDs and fire hazard (fuel
storage, systems, etc) and safety/navigation signalling. It's pretty
easy to look up. I'm no expert on the regulations, but I don't think
they're going to care if you fill your buoyancy chambers with foam,
cow dung, or lead.
Read for yourself and make up your own mind at:
http://www.uscgboating.org/
YIBB,
David
>Per liter of displacement, the urethane works out to about $15.00. AC.E.P.
>plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
>
>A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to be?
>
>Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and and use
>not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but that's
>usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work? Isn't it
>all about displacing water?
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I have a feeling all these bottle solutions are a false economy. You don't
save much weight, and I'm pretty sure the bubbles in the expanding foam are
bigger if they have fewer restrictions for expanding, negating some of the
saved money. Also, if you add up your time to find the bottles, glue them in
place, etc, you might as well fill the entire compartment with foam.
I got my foam from Fiberglass Product (http://www.fgci.com), and it was
incredibly cheap.
save much weight, and I'm pretty sure the bubbles in the expanding foam are
bigger if they have fewer restrictions for expanding, negating some of the
saved money. Also, if you add up your time to find the bottles, glue them in
place, etc, you might as well fill the entire compartment with foam.
I got my foam from Fiberglass Product (http://www.fgci.com), and it was
incredibly cheap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
> Howdy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
>
>
> > Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors
to
> do
>
> 2 Liter Soda bottles might work as well, and they are incredibly Tough!
>
> Good Luck
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
> http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Per liter of displacement, the urethane works out to about $15.00. A
plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to be?
Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and and use
not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but that's
usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work? Isn't it
all about displacing water?
Jeff
plastic bottle is free. This works for me!
A good question is if it's coast guard approved. Does it need to be?
Another thought is to just jam them in tight, glue them down, and and use
not foam. Of course vents would be needed for condensation but that's
usually no big deal. This would be even easier! Would it work? Isn't it
all about displacing water?
Jeff
Howdy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
> Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors to
do
2 Liter Soda bottles might work as well, and they are incredibly Tough!
Good Luck
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
I thought about putting some adhesive on the plastic bottle caps but
decided it was really unnecessary. Afterall, I hope the boat isn't
going to be flooded forever. The PL Premium glue held the bottles in
while the coast guard foam expanded with no failures. I didn't use
milk or orange juice jugs except for maybe a couple. Mostly 16-20
ounce clear plastic drink bottles. I uploaded a couple of pictures to
the Photos section. I think they are numbered 36 and 37 and are
entitled "foam and plastic bottles(bow)" and "foam and plastic bottles
(stern)." The foam and bottles make a very tight blob and do not
separate from each other or from the boat.
decided it was really unnecessary. Afterall, I hope the boat isn't
going to be flooded forever. The PL Premium glue held the bottles in
while the coast guard foam expanded with no failures. I didn't use
milk or orange juice jugs except for maybe a couple. Mostly 16-20
ounce clear plastic drink bottles. I uploaded a couple of pictures to
the Photos section. I think they are numbered 36 and 37 and are
entitled "foam and plastic bottles(bow)" and "foam and plastic bottles
(stern)." The foam and bottles make a very tight blob and do not
separate from each other or from the boat.
Bolger Group:
Thank you for all of your response to my query. It's nice to have a
place to meet with wooden boat enthusiasts from all over the country
to discuss all matters of boatbuilding. A friend of mine, who is not
at all computer literate, has the 'Instant Boats' book which I plan
to make use of. If I do in fact find a suitable Bolger design, I know
I'll have a place to showcase it. As of today, the search continues...
I'll keep you posted.
Tom
p.s. The specific bodies of water that I navigate are the Great South
Bay, Fire Island Inlet, and surrounding channels of the south shore
of Long Island, NY.
Thank you for all of your response to my query. It's nice to have a
place to meet with wooden boat enthusiasts from all over the country
to discuss all matters of boatbuilding. A friend of mine, who is not
at all computer literate, has the 'Instant Boats' book which I plan
to make use of. If I do in fact find a suitable Bolger design, I know
I'll have a place to showcase it. As of today, the search continues...
I'll keep you posted.
Tom
p.s. The specific bodies of water that I navigate are the Great South
Bay, Fire Island Inlet, and surrounding channels of the south shore
of Long Island, NY.
--- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
>
> As far as instant, I built a version of the flat bottom and I think
the
> frame and strong back is probably faster on a larger boat than
stitch
> and glue. Not as fast as the bulkhead and outside chines of flat
sided
> Tennessee though.
>
> HJ
> boatbuilding@g... wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure what a "V-dory" is,
> >
> > I have plans for the V-Dory and seems to be a fairly simple
> > boat to build. Requires frames and isn't "instant" boat
> > building but easy none the less. It was designed for the rough
> > waters off the Pacific Coast as well as shallow running. It's
> > nothing more than a Pacific Dory with a V-Bow added for
> > smoother running. Good load ability, good speed, and being a
> > dory would be drier than other designs. Not a displacement
> > boat but is a planing boat design for what ever that may be
> > worth or hinder.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
Bill, I salute your in-depth approach! My thoughts in reply are:
1. I like the dry ice idea, but suspect ordinary air pressure would
suffice.
2. You want forever, put a glob of 3M's 5200 adhesive in the cap
before tightening.
3. I suspect the foam will adhere to the bottles just fine. Even if
it doesn't, the bottle should remain tight in the cavity simply through
friction.
4. Chicken wire or cheap fishnet stapled down, or a batten or two.
It only needs a few minutes before the foam will hold it anyway.
5. Wouldn't you LOVE to explain to Duly Constituted Authority that
your homemade boat is furnished with emergency flotation provided by
discarded soda bottles?
If we can't laugh about it, why are we here?
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:41 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
In a message dated 6/12/02 1:13:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
dromasco@...writes:
"foam
extenders" for floatation purposes. I believe that these containers can
tolerate quite high internal pressures, certainly high enough to be
invulnerable to being crushed by expanding uerathane foam.
I've been using these filled with water, then frozen, as "ice" for
portable
coolers for several years. They all eventually fail in this rather
arduous
service, I think by a combination of the terrific expansive power of
water
when frozen and a fatigue mechanism deriving from inconsistent filling
and
leakage from the caps, combined with the repetitive expansion and
contraction. Still, they usually last at least a hundred of
freezing-thawing
cycles in this service, which I find pretty impressive.
1) Bottles could be pressurized by spooning a small quantity of dry
ice
(CO2) into them before sealing. This raises questions about the
desireable
level of pressurization and how one would measure that. In MN the
bottles
could be subjected to a temperaure range from -30 F. to + 100 F. CO2 is
a gas
throughout this temperature range, so pressure changes would be modest
compared to those generated by the change in phase of water to ice;
Still it
would be nice to control those pressures within a range:
2) "Tightly stoppering" the caps: My experience with using soda
bottles as
ice containers indicates that the manufacured caps, without chemical
assistance, will leak given enough time and high enough pressure
differentials. Some sort of adhesive should answer, but just what sort,
I
don't know - epoxy? or one of those CA adhesives that model airplane
builders
use? or something else? Would the neck and cap require some sort of
treatment
to give an air-tight seal?
3) Would adhesion of the uerathane foam to the body of the bottle be
important? - This would seem to be desirable, but would chemical,
thermal or
abrasive treatment be required to accomplish this? Any abrasive
technique
would reduce the strength of the bottle; thermal techniques might be
hard to
consistently control; chemical techniques?: I haven't a clue.
4) "Premature Float" - Even pressurized soda bottles will weigh much
less
than any equivalent volume of foam. This is good, once they are in situ,
but
during pouring and curing of ureathane this would cause them to float
out of
position unless physically restrained;
5) USCG, insurance companies, banks and other third parties: Any
problems
here?
Any thoughts, anyone?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1. I like the dry ice idea, but suspect ordinary air pressure would
suffice.
2. You want forever, put a glob of 3M's 5200 adhesive in the cap
before tightening.
3. I suspect the foam will adhere to the bottles just fine. Even if
it doesn't, the bottle should remain tight in the cavity simply through
friction.
4. Chicken wire or cheap fishnet stapled down, or a batten or two.
It only needs a few minutes before the foam will hold it anyway.
5. Wouldn't you LOVE to explain to Duly Constituted Authority that
your homemade boat is furnished with emergency flotation provided by
discarded soda bottles?
If we can't laugh about it, why are we here?
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:41 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
In a message dated 6/12/02 1:13:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
dromasco@...writes:
> Big soda bottlesI've been giving some thought to using 2 liter soft drink bottles as
> tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
"foam
extenders" for floatation purposes. I believe that these containers can
tolerate quite high internal pressures, certainly high enough to be
invulnerable to being crushed by expanding uerathane foam.
I've been using these filled with water, then frozen, as "ice" for
portable
coolers for several years. They all eventually fail in this rather
arduous
service, I think by a combination of the terrific expansive power of
water
when frozen and a fatigue mechanism deriving from inconsistent filling
and
leakage from the caps, combined with the repetitive expansion and
contraction. Still, they usually last at least a hundred of
freezing-thawing
cycles in this service, which I find pretty impressive.
1) Bottles could be pressurized by spooning a small quantity of dry
ice
(CO2) into them before sealing. This raises questions about the
desireable
level of pressurization and how one would measure that. In MN the
bottles
could be subjected to a temperaure range from -30 F. to + 100 F. CO2 is
a gas
throughout this temperature range, so pressure changes would be modest
compared to those generated by the change in phase of water to ice;
Still it
would be nice to control those pressures within a range:
2) "Tightly stoppering" the caps: My experience with using soda
bottles as
ice containers indicates that the manufacured caps, without chemical
assistance, will leak given enough time and high enough pressure
differentials. Some sort of adhesive should answer, but just what sort,
I
don't know - epoxy? or one of those CA adhesives that model airplane
builders
use? or something else? Would the neck and cap require some sort of
treatment
to give an air-tight seal?
3) Would adhesion of the uerathane foam to the body of the bottle be
important? - This would seem to be desirable, but would chemical,
thermal or
abrasive treatment be required to accomplish this? Any abrasive
technique
would reduce the strength of the bottle; thermal techniques might be
hard to
consistently control; chemical techniques?: I haven't a clue.
4) "Premature Float" - Even pressurized soda bottles will weigh much
less
than any equivalent volume of foam. This is good, once they are in situ,
but
during pouring and curing of ureathane this would cause them to float
out of
position unless physically restrained;
5) USCG, insurance companies, banks and other third parties: Any
problems
here?
Any thoughts, anyone?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You may find that the foam takes the shape of whatever's underneath it. So you could end
up overfilling the cavity, then scraping off the "waste" in order to have a smoother top.
The foam is pretty light itself and not terribly expensive. It's easy to use unless you
make it complicated. It gives a comforting feeling of solidity behind a bulkhead and
under decks.
IMHO,
Mark
wmrpage@...wrote:
up overfilling the cavity, then scraping off the "waste" in order to have a smoother top.
The foam is pretty light itself and not terribly expensive. It's easy to use unless you
make it complicated. It gives a comforting feeling of solidity behind a bulkhead and
under decks.
IMHO,
Mark
wmrpage@...wrote:
>big snip>
> In a message dated 6/12/02 1:13:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
>dromasco@...writes:
>
> > Big soda bottles
> > tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
> 5) USCG, insurance companies, banks and other third parties: Any problems
> here?
>
> Any thoughts, anyone?
>
> Ciao for Niao,
> Bill in MN
> o
In a message dated 6/12/02 1:13:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
dromasco@...writes:
extenders" for floatation purposes. I believe that these containers can
tolerate quite high internal pressures, certainly high enough to be
invulnerable to being crushed by expanding uerathane foam.
I've been using these filled with water, then frozen, as "ice" for portable
coolers for several years. They all eventually fail in this rather arduous
service, I think by a combination of the terrific expansive power of water
when frozen and a fatigue mechanism deriving from inconsistent filling and
leakage from the caps, combined with the repetitive expansion and
contraction. Still, they usually last at least a hundred of freezing-thawing
cycles in this service, which I find pretty impressive.
1) Bottles could be pressurized by spooning a small quantity of dry ice
(CO2) into them before sealing. This raises questions about the desireable
level of pressurization and how one would measure that. In MN the bottles
could be subjected to a temperaure range from -30 F. to + 100 F. CO2 is a gas
throughout this temperature range, so pressure changes would be modest
compared to those generated by the change in phase of water to ice; Still it
would be nice to control those pressures within a range:
2) "Tightly stoppering" the caps: My experience with using soda bottles as
ice containers indicates that the manufacured caps, without chemical
assistance, will leak given enough time and high enough pressure
differentials. Some sort of adhesive should answer, but just what sort, I
don't know - epoxy? or one of those CA adhesives that model airplane builders
use? or something else? Would the neck and cap require some sort of treatment
to give an air-tight seal?
3) Would adhesion of the uerathane foam to the body of the bottle be
important? - This would seem to be desirable, but would chemical, thermal or
abrasive treatment be required to accomplish this? Any abrasive technique
would reduce the strength of the bottle; thermal techniques might be hard to
consistently control; chemical techniques?: I haven't a clue.
4) "Premature Float" - Even pressurized soda bottles will weigh much less
than any equivalent volume of foam. This is good, once they are in situ, but
during pouring and curing of ureathane this would cause them to float out of
position unless physically restrained;
5) USCG, insurance companies, banks and other third parties: Any problems
here?
Any thoughts, anyone?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dromasco@...writes:
> Big soda bottlesI've been giving some thought to using 2 liter soft drink bottles as "foam
> tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
extenders" for floatation purposes. I believe that these containers can
tolerate quite high internal pressures, certainly high enough to be
invulnerable to being crushed by expanding uerathane foam.
I've been using these filled with water, then frozen, as "ice" for portable
coolers for several years. They all eventually fail in this rather arduous
service, I think by a combination of the terrific expansive power of water
when frozen and a fatigue mechanism deriving from inconsistent filling and
leakage from the caps, combined with the repetitive expansion and
contraction. Still, they usually last at least a hundred of freezing-thawing
cycles in this service, which I find pretty impressive.
1) Bottles could be pressurized by spooning a small quantity of dry ice
(CO2) into them before sealing. This raises questions about the desireable
level of pressurization and how one would measure that. In MN the bottles
could be subjected to a temperaure range from -30 F. to + 100 F. CO2 is a gas
throughout this temperature range, so pressure changes would be modest
compared to those generated by the change in phase of water to ice; Still it
would be nice to control those pressures within a range:
2) "Tightly stoppering" the caps: My experience with using soda bottles as
ice containers indicates that the manufacured caps, without chemical
assistance, will leak given enough time and high enough pressure
differentials. Some sort of adhesive should answer, but just what sort, I
don't know - epoxy? or one of those CA adhesives that model airplane builders
use? or something else? Would the neck and cap require some sort of treatment
to give an air-tight seal?
3) Would adhesion of the uerathane foam to the body of the bottle be
important? - This would seem to be desirable, but would chemical, thermal or
abrasive treatment be required to accomplish this? Any abrasive technique
would reduce the strength of the bottle; thermal techniques might be hard to
consistently control; chemical techniques?: I haven't a clue.
4) "Premature Float" - Even pressurized soda bottles will weigh much less
than any equivalent volume of foam. This is good, once they are in situ, but
during pouring and curing of ureathane this would cause them to float out of
position unless physically restrained;
5) USCG, insurance companies, banks and other third parties: Any problems
here?
Any thoughts, anyone?
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As far as instant, I built a version of the flat bottom and I think the
frame and strong back is probably faster on a larger boat than stitch
and glue. Not as fast as the bulkhead and outside chines of flat sided
Tennessee though.
HJ
boatbuilding@...wrote:
frame and strong back is probably faster on a larger boat than stitch
and glue. Not as fast as the bulkhead and outside chines of flat sided
Tennessee though.
HJ
boatbuilding@...wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure what a "V-dory" is,
>
> I have plans for the V-Dory and seems to be a fairly simple
> boat to build. Requires frames and isn't "instant" boat
> building but easy none the less. It was designed for the rough
> waters off the Pacific Coast as well as shallow running. It's
> nothing more than a Pacific Dory with a V-Bow added for
> smoother running. Good load ability, good speed, and being a
> dory would be drier than other designs. Not a displacement
> boat but is a planing boat design for what ever that may be
> worth or hinder.
>
> Jeff
>
>
Seems there are as many thoughts on using it as not. It takes a build up of
pressure or vacum to move air in and out of a space. Such as heat during
the day then cooling down and pulling in damp night air. If it's full of
foam, there is little chance of this happening.
I like the thought of a flotation chamber that can't be compromised. Maybe
that's a fallacy who knows. Built with drain holes everywhere like Bolger
wants and you take a puncture in the hull, the water would fill the boat.
Nothing to stop it from moving anywhere it wants until the boat is full. If
it was big enough like a container strike your talking minutes only. Though
the Wyo probably wouldn't sink, she wouldn't exactly be mobile or safe.
I saturated everything extremely well with epoxy, then I'll fill with foam
tightly, trim it off carefully, then heavily epoxy the deck on top. I hope
this works and will be fine as long as the boat is capable of floating.
I faxed a letter to Mr. Bolger about all this today. We'll see......
Jeff
pressure or vacum to move air in and out of a space. Such as heat during
the day then cooling down and pulling in damp night air. If it's full of
foam, there is little chance of this happening.
I like the thought of a flotation chamber that can't be compromised. Maybe
that's a fallacy who knows. Built with drain holes everywhere like Bolger
wants and you take a puncture in the hull, the water would fill the boat.
Nothing to stop it from moving anywhere it wants until the boat is full. If
it was big enough like a container strike your talking minutes only. Though
the Wyo probably wouldn't sink, she wouldn't exactly be mobile or safe.
I saturated everything extremely well with epoxy, then I'll fill with foam
tightly, trim it off carefully, then heavily epoxy the deck on top. I hope
this works and will be fine as long as the boat is capable of floating.
I faxed a letter to Mr. Bolger about all this today. We'll see......
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
He does say about Otter: "the foam is not supposed to fit so tightly
anywhere that condensation water is trapped by it"
> I saw a deck and liner popped clean out of a center-console boat byan
> enthusiastic foam pour one time. Maybe Bolger saw somethingsimilar....
>Possibly,
> David Romasco
>
He does say about Otter: "the foam is not supposed to fit so tightly
anywhere that condensation water is trapped by it"
That could be true. What I saw last night, I don't think it would but worth
a try on a sample. If the lids where on tight and the foam could expand
somewhere freely they may work. Once set though, I doubt they would ever
move, especially if the lids where screwed on with a sealer like maybe
silicon caulk.
I will experiment tonight.
Jeff
a try on a sample. If the lids where on tight and the foam could expand
somewhere freely they may work. Once set though, I doubt they would ever
move, especially if the lids where screwed on with a sealer like maybe
silicon caulk.
I will experiment tonight.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
> Jeff, watch out you don't crush those milk jugs! Big soda bottles
> tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
>
> David Romasco
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:57 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
>
>
> Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors
> to do
> so too! I have a section in the rear cockpit that is 4' X 17' X 14" to
> fill
> with foam.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> > I filled my flotation chambers with plastic bottles and glued them
> > down using PL Premium glue.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
changed his view? I am not sure I know why he distains it, I am
assuming the reason is structural where it relates to decks, and
possibly rot/mildew related elsewhere
> Just finished one of two flotation chambers at the bow on theBolger seems generally to distain the use of poured foam. Has he
> Wyo. It's about 5 cubic feet. I recycled some old Styrofoam
> packing material from computer monitor boxes. My idea was to
> break it up into pieces, lay it in and use the expanding foam
> to fill the gaps. I estimated that I filled at least 50% of the
> space with these pieces.
>
changed his view? I am not sure I know why he distains it, I am
assuming the reason is structural where it relates to decks, and
possibly rot/mildew related elsewhere
I saw a deck and liner popped clean out of a center-console boat by an
enthusiastic foam pour one time. Maybe Bolger saw something similar....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: proaconstrictor [mailto:proaconstrictor@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:18 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
enthusiastic foam pour one time. Maybe Bolger saw something similar....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: proaconstrictor [mailto:proaconstrictor@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:18 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
--- In bolger@y..., <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Just finished one of two flotation chambers at the bow on the
> Wyo. It's about 5 cubic feet. I recycled some old Styrofoam
> packing material from computer monitor boxes. My idea was to
> break it up into pieces, lay it in and use the expanding foam
> to fill the gaps. I estimated that I filled at least 50% of the
> space with these pieces.
>
Bolger seems generally to distain the use of poured foam. Has he
changed his view? I am not sure I know why he distains it, I am
assuming the reason is structural where it relates to decks, and
possibly rot/mildew related elsewhere
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff, watch out you don't crush those milk jugs! Big soda bottles
tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:57 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors
to do
so too! I have a section in the rear cockpit that is 4' X 17' X 14" to
fill
with foam.
Jeff
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tightly stoppered might resist the foam pressure better.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:57 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Pouring Foam
Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors
to do
so too! I have a section in the rear cockpit that is 4' X 17' X 14" to
fill
with foam.
Jeff
> I filled my flotation chambers with plastic bottles and glued themBolger rules!!!
> down using PL Premium glue.
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Great idea! I'll start saving my gallon milk jugs, gets the neighbors to do
so too! I have a section in the rear cockpit that is 4' X 17' X 14" to fill
with foam.
Jeff
so too! I have a section in the rear cockpit that is 4' X 17' X 14" to fill
with foam.
Jeff
> I filled my flotation chambers with plastic bottles and glued them
> down using PL Premium glue.
I filled my flotation chambers with plastic bottles and glued them
down using PL Premium glue. I then poured the two-part foam on top
of the bottles. Finally I filled what few gaps were left with the
styrofoam that one uses on the sides of houses. I used about 1/2 of
the foam that I think I would have needed if I had done a straight
pour.
down using PL Premium glue. I then poured the two-part foam on top
of the bottles. Finally I filled what few gaps were left with the
styrofoam that one uses on the sides of houses. I used about 1/2 of
the foam that I think I would have needed if I had done a straight
pour.
"The problem is that I didn't save much in expanding foam.
Calculations indicated I WOULD have used about 2/3 of the
two gallon batch I got from Raka. {WITHOUT STYROFOAM} I still
used about 2/3!"
****************
Correction! I was hoping to use about 1/2 or less of the 2
gallon batch so I could get by with one order for both
flotation chambers.
Jeff
Calculations indicated I WOULD have used about 2/3 of the
two gallon batch I got from Raka. {WITHOUT STYROFOAM} I still
used about 2/3!"
****************
Correction! I was hoping to use about 1/2 or less of the 2
gallon batch so I could get by with one order for both
flotation chambers.
Jeff
Just finished one of two flotation chambers at the bow on the
Wyo. It's about 5 cubic feet. I recycled some old Styrofoam
packing material from computer monitor boxes. My idea was to
break it up into pieces, lay it in and use the expanding foam
to fill the gaps. I estimated that I filled at least 50% of the
space with these pieces.
This actually worked! I didn't have much problem with the
Styrofoam wanting to lift on top of the foam either. I found
that I could gently adjust as needed as it was expanding.
The problem is that I didn't save much in expanding foam.
Calculations indicated I should have used about 2/3 of the two
gallon batch I got from Raka. I still used about 2/3!
I did a test on the other side with just the expanding foam and
it swelled up nicely. The way I see it, as the foam expanded
in and around the Styrofoam pieces, the bubbles where smaller
and did not expand like the unrestricted pour did.
I believe it's was a false economy using bits and pieces of
Styrofoam. On the other side, I'm going to buy the Blue foam
board and cut in neatly so the expanding foam only has to fill
the gaps between the stacked Blue foam and the sides to create
a good seal.
Tomorrow I'll post some pictures on my web site of the side I
did tonight and more on Thursday after I do the other side.
Jeff
Wyo. It's about 5 cubic feet. I recycled some old Styrofoam
packing material from computer monitor boxes. My idea was to
break it up into pieces, lay it in and use the expanding foam
to fill the gaps. I estimated that I filled at least 50% of the
space with these pieces.
This actually worked! I didn't have much problem with the
Styrofoam wanting to lift on top of the foam either. I found
that I could gently adjust as needed as it was expanding.
The problem is that I didn't save much in expanding foam.
Calculations indicated I should have used about 2/3 of the two
gallon batch I got from Raka. I still used about 2/3!
I did a test on the other side with just the expanding foam and
it swelled up nicely. The way I see it, as the foam expanded
in and around the Styrofoam pieces, the bubbles where smaller
and did not expand like the unrestricted pour did.
I believe it's was a false economy using bits and pieces of
Styrofoam. On the other side, I'm going to buy the Blue foam
board and cut in neatly so the expanding foam only has to fill
the gaps between the stacked Blue foam and the sides to create
a good seal.
Tomorrow I'll post some pictures on my web site of the side I
did tonight and more on Thursday after I do the other side.
Jeff
> I'm not sure what a "V-dory" is,I have plans for the V-Dory and seems to be a fairly simple
boat to build. Requires frames and isn't "instant" boat
building but easy none the less. It was designed for the rough
waters off the Pacific Coast as well as shallow running. It's
nothing more than a Pacific Dory with a V-Bow added for
smoother running. Good load ability, good speed, and being a
dory would be drier than other designs. Not a displacement
boat but is a planing boat design for what ever that may be
worth or hinder.
Jeff
Hi Tom,
Looking at a chart I've the impression that Long Island Sound goes roughly east-west. Seems that the
idea of a south side could mean Cape Cod or the Narrows. But seriously, one of the most useful
commercial fishing boats developed way back yonder for use on L.I. Sound were the one and two man
sharpies used winter and summer all along both coasts of Long Island Sound. (mostly over in
Connecticut though.) Their bottoms were cross-planked flat.
I get the idea from that whether or not the boat's bottom is flat doesn't matter anywhere near as
much as the seamanship of the folks running the boat. If PCB designed it, as he did my Black Skimmer
and my little catamaran, the fact of its flat bottom doesn't indicate that she is not suitable to go
out on. If she is flat, however, and it gets too rough for comfort, easing back on the throttle or
changing your heading a little might make the day a lot more comfortable. That even works for Donzi
deep vees.
I once saw a small lobster boat in the Montgomery boatyard in Gloucester where Phil Bolger used to
keep his Resolution that Phil had done for a Gloucester lobsterman. She was a handsome example of the
traditional model but small, about 20 ft. She looked as though she would have been capable of keeping
the sea off Gloucester well enough to allow her owner to make a steady living with her, good weather
or (somewhat) bad. Sane people don't go off Gloucester in really bad weather. They have a handsome
monument in the memory of those who have been forced to.
She had good shelter for her crew and a large low cockpit to work the traps from. But she wouldn't
really have been much use as a yacht because her cabin was filled with her engine neatly stowed out
of the way of the work that she was designed for.
Forty years ago I used to build duckboats myself. The seaworthiness of those little boats continually
amazed me but now I guess that I would trust the safety and seaworthiness of just about anything that
Phil and Suzanne(sp) offer. As to comfort, that would be your department.
Jim
trund1024 wrote:
Looking at a chart I've the impression that Long Island Sound goes roughly east-west. Seems that the
idea of a south side could mean Cape Cod or the Narrows. But seriously, one of the most useful
commercial fishing boats developed way back yonder for use on L.I. Sound were the one and two man
sharpies used winter and summer all along both coasts of Long Island Sound. (mostly over in
Connecticut though.) Their bottoms were cross-planked flat.
I get the idea from that whether or not the boat's bottom is flat doesn't matter anywhere near as
much as the seamanship of the folks running the boat. If PCB designed it, as he did my Black Skimmer
and my little catamaran, the fact of its flat bottom doesn't indicate that she is not suitable to go
out on. If she is flat, however, and it gets too rough for comfort, easing back on the throttle or
changing your heading a little might make the day a lot more comfortable. That even works for Donzi
deep vees.
I once saw a small lobster boat in the Montgomery boatyard in Gloucester where Phil Bolger used to
keep his Resolution that Phil had done for a Gloucester lobsterman. She was a handsome example of the
traditional model but small, about 20 ft. She looked as though she would have been capable of keeping
the sea off Gloucester well enough to allow her owner to make a steady living with her, good weather
or (somewhat) bad. Sane people don't go off Gloucester in really bad weather. They have a handsome
monument in the memory of those who have been forced to.
She had good shelter for her crew and a large low cockpit to work the traps from. But she wouldn't
really have been much use as a yacht because her cabin was filled with her engine neatly stowed out
of the way of the work that she was designed for.
Forty years ago I used to build duckboats myself. The seaworthiness of those little boats continually
amazed me but now I guess that I would trust the safety and seaworthiness of just about anything that
Phil and Suzanne(sp) offer. As to comfort, that would be your department.
Jim
trund1024 wrote:
> Dear Bolger Group:
>
> For the past couple of weeks I have enjoyed reading your posts and
> admiring your photos and links. Although, I must admit that I have
> never built a Bolger boat. My boatbuilding experience is limited to
> duckboats and sneakboxes. The last duckboat I built was to Arthur
> Armstrongs design for Broadbill 14 which was constructed using a jig.
> The only power I have for it is a 25hp Yamaha. Needless to say, I get
> to the good spots first...
>
> I am looking for a new project to begin towards the end of summer.
> Does Bolger have a design for a lobster type power boat or v -
> bottomed dory greater than 20ft.? I live on the south shore of Long
> Island, NY and the waters get quite choppy so I don't think that one
> of Mr. Bolgers flat bottom designs would be all that practical.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tom Rund
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I'm not sure what a "V-dory" is, but perhaps a "Diablo Grande" would suit?
The hull has a narrow flat bottom flanked by deadrise sections, which is kind
of dory-like after a fashion. "Dynamite" Payson praises the virtues of the
relatively full bow in the original, smaller "Diablo" as contributing to its
seaworthiness. I think the "Grande" is an 18 footer, or so, but I'm not sure.
If so, I would guess that it could be stretched to 20' without doing to much
violence to the design. I've never been on Long Island Sound, but if I were
going to take an outboard-powered boat out on it, I think I'd like a
long-shaft motor AND a slop-well AND plenty of carefully placed flotation,
among other things. Plans and building instructions for the original "Diablo"
can be found in Payson's "Build The New Instant Boats", a pretty good read,
even if you don't end up building any of the boats. (I bought my copy direct
from Payson about a year ago and just now noticed my copy is INSCRIBED AND
SIGNED BY THE AUTHOR!!! I guess I was so eager to get to the text that I
never bothered to glance at the title page before. Guess I better call my
insurance agent and up my personal property coverage or get a fine arts
floater policy.)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
The hull has a narrow flat bottom flanked by deadrise sections, which is kind
of dory-like after a fashion. "Dynamite" Payson praises the virtues of the
relatively full bow in the original, smaller "Diablo" as contributing to its
seaworthiness. I think the "Grande" is an 18 footer, or so, but I'm not sure.
If so, I would guess that it could be stretched to 20' without doing to much
violence to the design. I've never been on Long Island Sound, but if I were
going to take an outboard-powered boat out on it, I think I'd like a
long-shaft motor AND a slop-well AND plenty of carefully placed flotation,
among other things. Plans and building instructions for the original "Diablo"
can be found in Payson's "Build The New Instant Boats", a pretty good read,
even if you don't end up building any of the boats. (I bought my copy direct
from Payson about a year ago and just now noticed my copy is INSCRIBED AND
SIGNED BY THE AUTHOR!!! I guess I was so eager to get to the text that I
never bothered to glance at the title page before. Guess I better call my
insurance agent and up my personal property coverage or get a fine arts
floater policy.)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
In addition, he has designed a few boats with what he calls a box
cutwater. It is his way of making a flat bottom, "easy-to-build" boat
suitable for rough water. I use the quotation marks because they are
obviously more complicated than a regular flat bottom boat, but still
much easier than a fully-modeled hull like a true lobster boat.
I advise a letter to the man himself.
Peter
cutwater. It is his way of making a flat bottom, "easy-to-build" boat
suitable for rough water. I use the quotation marks because they are
obviously more complicated than a regular flat bottom boat, but still
much easier than a fully-modeled hull like a true lobster boat.
I advise a letter to the man himself.
Peter
Phil has desined many lobster boats still in use by professional
lobstermen (and lobsterwomen)?. Long befor square boats and sharpies
he mad his name in the North East on them. I've seen several of his
designs in his books and on the net. Drop him a line or fax with your
desired usage and I'm sure he'll have a winner in his stock plans.
lobstermen (and lobsterwomen)?. Long befor square boats and sharpies
he mad his name in the North East on them. I've seen several of his
designs in his books and on the net. Drop him a line or fax with your
desired usage and I'm sure he'll have a winner in his stock plans.
> Does Bolger have a design for a lobster type power boat or v -Bolger has designed a host of power craft, many for home builders.
> bottomed dory greater than 20ft.?
I'm not sure from your description how much interior accomodation you
want. One boat to look at is the "Diesel light cruiser" which is a
22' v-bottom boat. The construction requires setting up frames on a
strongback. There is a chapter about it in Boats With An Open Mind.
It's somewhat similar to the 22-footers on Arch Davis's web site,
which also may be of interest.
Peter
Dear Bolger Group:
For the past couple of weeks I have enjoyed reading your posts and
admiring your photos and links. Although, I must admit that I have
never built a Bolger boat. My boatbuilding experience is limited to
duckboats and sneakboxes. The last duckboat I built was to Arthur
Armstrongs design for Broadbill 14 which was constructed using a jig.
The only power I have for it is a 25hp Yamaha. Needless to say, I get
to the good spots first...
I am looking for a new project to begin towards the end of summer.
Does Bolger have a design for a lobster type power boat or v -
bottomed dory greater than 20ft.? I live on the south shore of Long
Island, NY and the waters get quite choppy so I don't think that one
of Mr. Bolgers flat bottom designs would be all that practical.
Sincerely,
Tom Rund
For the past couple of weeks I have enjoyed reading your posts and
admiring your photos and links. Although, I must admit that I have
never built a Bolger boat. My boatbuilding experience is limited to
duckboats and sneakboxes. The last duckboat I built was to Arthur
Armstrongs design for Broadbill 14 which was constructed using a jig.
The only power I have for it is a 25hp Yamaha. Needless to say, I get
to the good spots first...
I am looking for a new project to begin towards the end of summer.
Does Bolger have a design for a lobster type power boat or v -
bottomed dory greater than 20ft.? I live on the south shore of Long
Island, NY and the waters get quite choppy so I don't think that one
of Mr. Bolgers flat bottom designs would be all that practical.
Sincerely,
Tom Rund