Re: [bolger] Engine cooling
They haven't responded to my email so far, they are actively looking for
dealers and I think that they are still in the business starting stage.
I get the impression of a company with a real good idea, little
financing, and not fully up to speed yet. If somebody in the US could
put together and sell an engine + drive package to one of the hull
manufactures like Bayliner, Mercruiser would be outa here.
HJ
stephensonhw@...wrote:
dealers and I think that they are still in the business starting stage.
I get the impression of a company with a real good idea, little
financing, and not fully up to speed yet. If somebody in the US could
put together and sell an engine + drive package to one of the hull
manufactures like Bayliner, Mercruiser would be outa here.
HJ
stephensonhw@...wrote:
>
> In a message dated 15-06-02 6:29:41 PM E. Australia Standard Time,
>welshman@...writes:
>
> > And DBD drives
> >
> >http://www.dbdmarine.com/
> >
> > don't appear to have an American dealer yet.
> >
> > Can any of the Oz members of this group get an FOB Australia price on
> > this drive?
> >
> >
>
> Why don't you just email them and ask? Maybe you could say you want to be
> their USA agent or dealer. Or you could phone them. Contact details are on
> the site.
>
> If they don't want to quote an FOB price over the phone, you could ask for
> Australian prices and convert to $US yourself to get some idea of an FOB
> price. One $AU is worth $US 0.57.
>
> If you get no response to your email or no help when you phone, you can be
> fairly sure they are not serious about export.
>
> Howard
> Queensland, Australia
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
In a message dated 15-06-02 6:29:41 PM E. Australia Standard Time,
welshman@...writes:
their USA agent or dealer. Or you could phone them. Contact details are on
the site.
If they don't want to quote an FOB price over the phone, you could ask for
Australian prices and convert to $US yourself to get some idea of an FOB
price. One $AU is worth $US 0.57.
If you get no response to your email or no help when you phone, you can be
fairly sure they are not serious about export.
Howard
Queensland, Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
welshman@...writes:
> And DBD drivesWhy don't you just email them and ask? Maybe you could say you want to be
>
>http://www.dbdmarine.com/
>
> don't appear to have an American dealer yet.
>
> Can any of the Oz members of this group get an FOB Australia price on
> this drive?
>
>
their USA agent or dealer. Or you could phone them. Contact details are on
the site.
If they don't want to quote an FOB price over the phone, you could ask for
Australian prices and convert to $US yourself to get some idea of an FOB
price. One $AU is worth $US 0.57.
If you get no response to your email or no help when you phone, you can be
fairly sure they are not serious about export.
Howard
Queensland, Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There are some Jet drives that work on high volume low speed water pump
instead of the higher speed pump your normal fast jet boat or jet ski
uses. these can be more efficient than a prop. I have the video of one
used on a Seine skiff that out pulled other Seine skiffs with more
horsepower. The only kicker was the unit cost $20,000.
HJ
rnlocnil wrote:
instead of the higher speed pump your normal fast jet boat or jet ski
uses. these can be more efficient than a prop. I have the video of one
used on a Seine skiff that out pulled other Seine skiffs with more
horsepower. The only kicker was the unit cost $20,000.
HJ
rnlocnil wrote:
>
> I didn't say ineffective, I said inefficient! Would like to know about
> what sort of commercial boats you are talking about, tho.
>
> Using a Chevy Suburban to shop for a few groceries is effective, too.
>
>
And DBD drives
http://www.dbdmarine.com/
don't appear to have an American dealer yet.
Can any of the Oz members of this group get an FOB Australia price on
this drive?
HJ
http://www.dbdmarine.com/
don't appear to have an American dealer yet.
Can any of the Oz members of this group get an FOB Australia price on
this drive?
HJ
>
> >
> > Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought of a
> > permanent increase in draft. Too bad nobody has a swing up strut assembly
> > other than the surface drives at $10,000 each.
> >
>
> There is the long-tail drive, used commonly in Thailand with quite large
> engines out of trucks and cars. But it's probably a) hard to locate anywhere
> in the Western world and b) very dangerous to people in the water.
>
> Howard
>
>
Both
It is called raw water cooled if there is no heat exchanger or
freshwater cooled if there is one. As most outdrives are just modified
detroit iron, they use the standard engine water pump to circulate
through the block and a raw water pump to pick up outside water. If
there is no heat exchanger, then the engine pump runs raw water through
the block. Some internal corrosion problems if running in salt water
with raw water.
HJ
It is called raw water cooled if there is no heat exchanger or
freshwater cooled if there is one. As most outdrives are just modified
detroit iron, they use the standard engine water pump to circulate
through the block and a raw water pump to pick up outside water. If
there is no heat exchanger, then the engine pump runs raw water through
the block. Some internal corrosion problems if running in salt water
with raw water.
HJ
>
> Out of curiosity, do inboard engines use a water-water heat exchanger, or do
> they suck up sea water and pump it through the engine? The former I would
> guess.
>
> S
I'm sold. - Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From:boatbuilding@...
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Engine cooling
>Jeff: All this complication makes me glad I have an
> outboard.
>
> Chuck
Chuck:
The wife and I just spent about 4 hours at our favorite Friday
night hangout. Not a lot of cold ones but good food and lots
of discussion on motors.
Someone posted a link to the USCG site for safety so I printed
it out and we read through it a bit. Wow, it mentioned a lot
of hassle for building in fuel tanks and engine compartments.
As in bilge blowers, vents, labels, fuel lines, fire
suppression, etc. all for boats over 39'. Living about as far
from an ocean as you can in the USA, this USCG marine stuff is
all new to me. Call it a learning curve.
We might just have come full circle and back to a pair of
Mercury Big Foot 35HP outboards.
Two outboards. External aluminum fuel tanks. Simple, easy, and
pure Bolger.
Jeff
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Jeff: All this complication makes me glad I have anChuck:
> outboard.
>
> Chuck
The wife and I just spent about 4 hours at our favorite Friday
night hangout. Not a lot of cold ones but good food and lots
of discussion on motors.
Someone posted a link to the USCG site for safety so I printed
it out and we read through it a bit. Wow, it mentioned a lot
of hassle for building in fuel tanks and engine compartments.
As in bilge blowers, vents, labels, fuel lines, fire
suppression, etc. all for boats over 39'. Living about as far
from an ocean as you can in the USA, this USCG marine stuff is
all new to me. Call it a learning curve.
We might just have come full circle and back to a pair of
Mercury Big Foot 35HP outboards.
Two outboards. External aluminum fuel tanks. Simple, easy, and
pure Bolger.
Jeff
>jet drivesI made a few calls to suppliers of jet drives. General opinion
is that for my normal speed of about 10 knts during cruising
with the 10,000 lb Wyo, a Jet drive would be about 30% less
efficient than a prop. If I where to crank up the speed to say
15 knts, it would be a close call.
Jeff
I never said ineffective either. I have found using a jet drive to
have overall lower operating cost than I/O or inboard. Here is a web
site with a few of only one jet drive companies commercial boats.
http://www.ultradynamics.com/sections/news/recently.asp
Jet drives come in many sizes for almost any marine application.
Their shallow draft performance is legendary, a perfect mating for
the shallow draft Bolger designs.
IMHO, John
have overall lower operating cost than I/O or inboard. Here is a web
site with a few of only one jet drive companies commercial boats.
http://www.ultradynamics.com/sections/news/recently.asp
Jet drives come in many sizes for almost any marine application.
Their shallow draft performance is legendary, a perfect mating for
the shallow draft Bolger designs.
IMHO, John
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> I didn't say ineffective, I said inefficient! Would like to know
about
> what sort of commercial boats you are talking about, tho.
>
> Using a Chevy Suburban to shop for a few groceries is effective,
too.
>
> Sometimes there are other considerations besides fuel efficiency,
but
> if that is the main consideration you probably won't see a jet
drive!
> --- In bolger@y..., "announcer97624" <cupp@k...> wrote:
> >
> > I used a jet drive to push a 100 ton Algae barge around with no
> > complications. We harvested at slow speeds and never had problems
> > with control. inherently inefficient never described the
performance
> > we received from that jet drive, Many commercial boats today are
> > fitted with these drives with qualified naval architects fitting
> them
> > as the best possible choice. There must be a reason they are
being
> > used?
> >
> > I took the liberty to crunch the numbers for the Illinois
powered
> by
> > a Mazda rotary with a ultra dynamics jet drive. The whole unit
> weighs
> > in at just over 400lbs. More importantly the Mazda puts out 240
hp
> > and fits into a 2 cubic foot space There is already a marine
> > conversion for the motor. You can even purchase a "New" motor if
you
> > feel safer doing that. When I had the engineers at ultra
> dynamics(who
> > have used the Rotary engines) look at the hull and displacement
they
> > told me it is conceivable to 15 to 20 knots from the Illinois.
They
> > also said that the Illinois is a great candidate for twin units
> > because of its size. They told me with twin jet capability in
hull
> > control the bow thruster would not be needed.
> >
>
> snip
I didn't say ineffective, I said inefficient! Would like to know about
what sort of commercial boats you are talking about, tho.
Using a Chevy Suburban to shop for a few groceries is effective, too.
Sometimes there are other considerations besides fuel efficiency, but
if that is the main consideration you probably won't see a jet drive!
what sort of commercial boats you are talking about, tho.
Using a Chevy Suburban to shop for a few groceries is effective, too.
Sometimes there are other considerations besides fuel efficiency, but
if that is the main consideration you probably won't see a jet drive!
--- In bolger@y..., "announcer97624" <cupp@k...> wrote:
>
> I used a jet drive to push a 100 ton Algae barge around with no
> complications. We harvested at slow speeds and never had problems
> with control. inherently inefficient never described the performance
> we received from that jet drive, Many commercial boats today are
> fitted with these drives with qualified naval architects fitting
them
> as the best possible choice. There must be a reason they are being
> used?
>
> I took the liberty to crunch the numbers for the Illinois powered
by
> a Mazda rotary with a ultra dynamics jet drive. The whole unit
weighs
> in at just over 400lbs. More importantly the Mazda puts out 240 hp
> and fits into a 2 cubic foot space There is already a marine
> conversion for the motor. You can even purchase a "New" motor if you
> feel safer doing that. When I had the engineers at ultra
dynamics(who
> have used the Rotary engines) look at the hull and displacement they
> told me it is conceivable to 15 to 20 knots from the Illinois. They
> also said that the Illinois is a great candidate for twin units
> because of its size. They told me with twin jet capability in hull
> control the bow thruster would not be needed.
>
snip
In a message dated 6/14/02 12:12:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
raw-water cooling occupies even less;
2) requires large volume of air flow compared to thermal equivalent volume of
water;
3) large air flow requires large openings and generous ducts (compared to
hoses for water supply);
4) large air flow requires large, powerful fans
5) large, powerful fans require high current, make lots of noise, are
dependent upon electrical circuitry which is more likely to fail in a humid
environment and (possibly) harder to diagnose than mechanical systems;
6) more stuff to go wrong: radiator, radiator cap, coolant recovery bottle,
multiple hoses and clamps, auxillary water pump(s), fans, electrical
circuitry, fuses, wiring, switches, relays and sensors;
This seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to avoid a through-hull
fitting (if, indeed, the same is required with the factory closed-loop
cooling option.) Through-hull fittings can and do fail (and stop-cocks for
them are damned expensive!), but one of them would seem to offer fewer
potential failure modes than a cobbled-up radiator-cooled system.
Ciao for Niao;
Bill in MN
"Murphy's law" is only the tip of the iceberg!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boatbuilding@...writes:
> What are the downsides?1) a radiator occupies a lot of volume compared to a water heat exchanger;
>
raw-water cooling occupies even less;
2) requires large volume of air flow compared to thermal equivalent volume of
water;
3) large air flow requires large openings and generous ducts (compared to
hoses for water supply);
4) large air flow requires large, powerful fans
5) large, powerful fans require high current, make lots of noise, are
dependent upon electrical circuitry which is more likely to fail in a humid
environment and (possibly) harder to diagnose than mechanical systems;
6) more stuff to go wrong: radiator, radiator cap, coolant recovery bottle,
multiple hoses and clamps, auxillary water pump(s), fans, electrical
circuitry, fuses, wiring, switches, relays and sensors;
This seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to avoid a through-hull
fitting (if, indeed, the same is required with the factory closed-loop
cooling option.) Through-hull fittings can and do fail (and stop-cocks for
them are damned expensive!), but one of them would seem to offer fewer
potential failure modes than a cobbled-up radiator-cooled system.
Ciao for Niao;
Bill in MN
"Murphy's law" is only the tip of the iceberg!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I used a jet drive to push a 100 ton Algae barge around with no
complications. We harvested at slow speeds and never had problems
with control. inherently inefficient never described the performance
we received from that jet drive, Many commercial boats today are
fitted with these drives with qualified naval architects fitting them
as the best possible choice. There must be a reason they are being
used?
I took the liberty to crunch the numbers for the Illinois powered by
a Mazda rotary with a ultra dynamics jet drive. The whole unit weighs
in at just over 400lbs. More importantly the Mazda puts out 240 hp
and fits into a 2 cubic foot space There is already a marine
conversion for the motor. You can even purchase a "New" motor if you
feel safer doing that. When I had the engineers at ultra dynamics(who
have used the Rotary engines) look at the hull and displacement they
told me it is conceivable to 15 to 20 knots from the Illinois. They
also said that the Illinois is a great candidate for twin units
because of its size. They told me with twin jet capability in hull
control the bow thruster would not be needed.
I like jet drives and with the fuel injected Mazda powering it with
its miserly reputation it seems like a perfect match. For me at least.
http://www.ultradynamics.com/sections/ultrajet/ultrajet.asp
http://www.europeanmarine.co.uk/page59.htm
complications. We harvested at slow speeds and never had problems
with control. inherently inefficient never described the performance
we received from that jet drive, Many commercial boats today are
fitted with these drives with qualified naval architects fitting them
as the best possible choice. There must be a reason they are being
used?
I took the liberty to crunch the numbers for the Illinois powered by
a Mazda rotary with a ultra dynamics jet drive. The whole unit weighs
in at just over 400lbs. More importantly the Mazda puts out 240 hp
and fits into a 2 cubic foot space There is already a marine
conversion for the motor. You can even purchase a "New" motor if you
feel safer doing that. When I had the engineers at ultra dynamics(who
have used the Rotary engines) look at the hull and displacement they
told me it is conceivable to 15 to 20 knots from the Illinois. They
also said that the Illinois is a great candidate for twin units
because of its size. They told me with twin jet capability in hull
control the bow thruster would not be needed.
I like jet drives and with the fuel injected Mazda powering it with
its miserly reputation it seems like a perfect match. For me at least.
http://www.ultradynamics.com/sections/ultrajet/ultrajet.asp
http://www.europeanmarine.co.uk/page59.htm
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> A jet drive will be inherently inefficient, especially at low
speeds!
> --- In bolger@y..., Hal Lynch <hal@c...> wrote:
> >
> > On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 12:48 PM, jeff wrote:
> >
> > > Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the
> thought of
> > > a
> > > permanent increase in draft.
> >
> > You seem really concerned about draft. Have you looked into
> > a jet drive?
...I firmly believe in Mr. Bolgers sense of safety and common sense....
No through hulls for me either. I'll trap the bathroom shower and sink
water in a small tank and recycle for the head. No through hulls anywhere...
Jeff: All this complication makes me glad I have an outboard.
Chuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No through hulls for me either. I'll trap the bathroom shower and sink
water in a small tank and recycle for the head. No through hulls anywhere...
Jeff: All this complication makes me glad I have an outboard.
Chuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A jet drive will be inherently inefficient, especially at low speeds!
--- In bolger@y..., Hal Lynch <hal@c...> wrote:
>
> On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 12:48 PM, jeff wrote:
>
> > Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the
thought of
> > a
> > permanent increase in draft.
>
> You seem really concerned about draft. Have you looked into
> a jet drive?
> You seem really concerned about draft.Only because before and after the trip, it'll probably be at our local 26
mile long lake as our cabin tied to a mooring. Some of the private cove
entrances are very shallow but get deeper inside. The lake has miles and
miles of sand beaches with the approaches being very shallow for a 100
yards.
The Wyo is perfect for nosing up to the beaches which by the way are where
the "refreshment" stands are located.
As too the trip, shallow draft allows more access to anchorages though I
doubt a draft less than 24" is any big advantage.
Jeff
There's an outdrive available. Name brand is Sonic. I've only heard it
referred to on catamarans. Obviously they're interested in being able to
get the prop out of the water for best speed under sail.
Here's an example of one mentioned :
http://www.cruisingcatsusa.com/gemini105.htm
Maybe someone better at searching than me can track down more info.
stephensonhw@...on 06/14/2002 04:22:16 PM
Please respond tobolger@yahoogroups.com
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject: Re: [bolger] Engine cooling
In a message dated 15-06-02 4:48:55 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
engines out of trucks and cars. But it's probably a) hard to locate
anywhere
in the Western world and b) very dangerous to people in the water.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
referred to on catamarans. Obviously they're interested in being able to
get the prop out of the water for best speed under sail.
Here's an example of one mentioned :
http://www.cruisingcatsusa.com/gemini105.htm
Maybe someone better at searching than me can track down more info.
stephensonhw@...on 06/14/2002 04:22:16 PM
Please respond tobolger@yahoogroups.com
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject: Re: [bolger] Engine cooling
In a message dated 15-06-02 4:48:55 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
>a
> Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought of
> permanent increase in draft. Too bad nobody has a swing up strutassembly
> other than the surface drives at $10,000 each.There is the long-tail drive, used commonly in Thailand with quite large
>
engines out of trucks and cars. But it's probably a) hard to locate
anywhere
in the Western world and b) very dangerous to people in the water.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
In a message dated 15-06-02 4:48:55 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
boatbuilding@...writes:
engines out of trucks and cars. But it's probably a) hard to locate anywhere
in the Western world and b) very dangerous to people in the water.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boatbuilding@...writes:
>There is the long-tail drive, used commonly in Thailand with quite large
> Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought of a
> permanent increase in draft. Too bad nobody has a swing up strut assembly
> other than the surface drives at $10,000 each.
>
engines out of trucks and cars. But it's probably a) hard to locate anywhere
in the Western world and b) very dangerous to people in the water.
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 12:48 PM, jeff wrote:
a jet drive? There are several companies making jets, Panther
comes to mind. I suspect a drive could be supplied with a
nozzle to fit your needs (displacement speed + a little :^) ).
With a jet draft would be about 6 inches deeper than the
bottom of the boat not counting any keel depth.
hal
> Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought ofYou seem really concerned about draft. Have you looked into
> a
> permanent increase in draft.
a jet drive? There are several companies making jets, Panther
comes to mind. I suspect a drive could be supplied with a
nozzle to fit your needs (displacement speed + a little :^) ).
With a jet draft would be about 6 inches deeper than the
bottom of the boat not counting any keel depth.
hal
> Resolution now has air cooled radiators on deck aft in good housing.I firmly believe in Mr. Bolgers sense of safety and common sense. It must
have been his own boat that S.A. was talking about, cool!
How does he cool the exhaust? Dry stack?
> and no underwater openings to the sea.No through hulls for me either. I'll trap the bathroom shower and sink
water in a small tank and recycle for the head. No through hulls anywhere.
> BTW there is a British company, whose name I forget, that does make a lineof >stern drives that will swing out of the way.
I looked into those but again, very expensive. He likes them on his low
power diesels. I could mount twin T50s cheaper.
I must say that S.A. is not a fan of doing the Mercruiser option.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
There are a whole number of different good ways to arrange for the sea to cool the boat's engine. The
reason that compels PCB to not suggest any of them is that they all carry the risk of allowing the
sea to enter the boat and turn a quiet moment into a desperate one.
Phil's own liveaboard, Resolution, was his teacher in that matter. The sea water intake line on his
engine failed one day as he simply lay alongside his dock and Resolution began to flood. He was
aboard, controlled the matter, and soon put things to right with no harm done.
Resolution now has air cooled radiators on deck aft in good housing. He has a portable head on board
and no underwater openings to the sea.
He is a careful sailor with long experience. No simple examination of the outside of that wire
reinforced piece of hose showed its precarious state. He feels that the best solution is to avoid the
danger altogether. I think that's why he suggests that cutting holes in the boat in order to make it
simply work is a bad idea.
BTW there is a British company, whose name I forget, that does make a line of stern drives that will
swing out of the way. They have an upper horsepower limit but that shouldn't bother anyone intending
low or hull speed cruising in the Wyoming. It might be useful to ask PCB about them.
Jim
jeff wrote:
There are a whole number of different good ways to arrange for the sea to cool the boat's engine. The
reason that compels PCB to not suggest any of them is that they all carry the risk of allowing the
sea to enter the boat and turn a quiet moment into a desperate one.
Phil's own liveaboard, Resolution, was his teacher in that matter. The sea water intake line on his
engine failed one day as he simply lay alongside his dock and Resolution began to flood. He was
aboard, controlled the matter, and soon put things to right with no harm done.
Resolution now has air cooled radiators on deck aft in good housing. He has a portable head on board
and no underwater openings to the sea.
He is a careful sailor with long experience. No simple examination of the outside of that wire
reinforced piece of hose showed its precarious state. He feels that the best solution is to avoid the
danger altogether. I think that's why he suggests that cutting holes in the boat in order to make it
simply work is a bad idea.
BTW there is a British company, whose name I forget, that does make a line of stern drives that will
swing out of the way. They have an upper horsepower limit but that shouldn't bother anyone intending
low or hull speed cruising in the Wyoming. It might be useful to ask PCB about them.
Jim
jeff wrote:
> > I would have Mercruiser, the dealer, or myself install a factory approved
> > closed cooling system.
>
> This is probably the best way to go, plus the addition of a separate
> electric raw water pump setup on the temp sender to turn on in case the
> inlet ports get pluged on the sterndrive. They have kits for this for
> around $100.00 Also a drive shower should be added.
>
> > Have you talked with a dealer about gearing and props yet?
>
> Yes, they recommend the 2.4 gear ratio in their high altitude option.
> Rather than dealing with lower power, it could handle a bigger prop for the
> low speed cruising that would be the standard for our use. Trial and error
> on props seems likely.
>
> Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought of a
> permanent increase in draft. Too bad nobody has a swing up strut assembly
> other than the surface drives at $10,000 each.
>
> Have to decide by August at the latest, I will be starting the aft section
> and will have to build accordingly.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> I would have Mercruiser, the dealer, or myself install a factory approvedThis is probably the best way to go, plus the addition of a separate
> closed cooling system.
electric raw water pump setup on the temp sender to turn on in case the
inlet ports get pluged on the sterndrive. They have kits for this for
around $100.00 Also a drive shower should be added.
> Have you talked with a dealer about gearing and props yet?Yes, they recommend the 2.4 gear ratio in their high altitude option.
Rather than dealing with lower power, it could handle a bigger prop for the
low speed cruising that would be the standard for our use. Trial and error
on props seems likely.
Wished I could go inboard and marine transmission but hate the thought of a
permanent increase in draft. Too bad nobody has a swing up strut assembly
other than the surface drives at $10,000 each.
Have to decide by August at the latest, I will be starting the aft section
and will have to build accordingly.
Jeff
On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 11:11 AM, jeff wrote:
size of Wyo. I would seriously consider a radiator and dry
exhaust. The thought of less corrosion would help you sleep
at night. Add a catalytic converter to the exhaust and you are
more nature friendly too. The only downers I see are noise
and heat. You will need a LOT of ventilation. Check all the
holes in the engine compartment of your car. Those holes will
make it harder to control the noise however. Cooling fan or no
you will need a bilge blower. You run it for a couple of
minutes to remove explodable fumes from the engine compartment
before you start the engine.
Mercruiser I/O on your Wyo. If so it comes as a unit ready to
run and I wouldn't mess with it, except for one thing. I would
have Mercruiser, the dealer, or myself install a factory approved
closed cooling system. With that the salt water would only see
the heat exchanger and exhaust manifold which are a lot cheaper
than the engine itself.
If you will have your Wyo. in salt water for only a few months
worry about engine corrosion may be wasted, but if you protect
your engine you will sleep better.
In any event I would worry about the outdrive. Mercruiser has
a product called Mercathod I believe which is designed to
protect the drive leg from salt water (better than zincs alone
that is).
Have you talked with a dealer about gearing and props yet? A chat
now may save some surprises later. On second thought if the boat
isn't a plastic runabout the dealer may be clueless but you need
to talk to someone.
Have fun.
hal
> S.A. mentioned in a phone call about using a radiator to cool an inboardIf I were putting my own power package together on a boat the
> rather than sea water cooling. Cheaper, reliable, etc. where some of the
> words mentioned. Electric cooling fan is used as the blower for fumes,
> less
> engine bay heat, etc.
>
> What are the downsides?
size of Wyo. I would seriously consider a radiator and dry
exhaust. The thought of less corrosion would help you sleep
at night. Add a catalytic converter to the exhaust and you are
more nature friendly too. The only downers I see are noise
and heat. You will need a LOT of ventilation. Check all the
holes in the engine compartment of your car. Those holes will
make it harder to control the noise however. Cooling fan or no
you will need a bilge blower. You run it for a couple of
minutes to remove explodable fumes from the engine compartment
before you start the engine.
>If I remember correctly you are considering using a four cyl.
> On a sterndrive setup, one could use the raw water pump to cool the
> exhaust
> while the radiator could handle the engine or use well insulated dry stack
> exhaust.
Mercruiser I/O on your Wyo. If so it comes as a unit ready to
run and I wouldn't mess with it, except for one thing. I would
have Mercruiser, the dealer, or myself install a factory approved
closed cooling system. With that the salt water would only see
the heat exchanger and exhaust manifold which are a lot cheaper
than the engine itself.
If you will have your Wyo. in salt water for only a few months
worry about engine corrosion may be wasted, but if you protect
your engine you will sleep better.
In any event I would worry about the outdrive. Mercruiser has
a product called Mercathod I believe which is designed to
protect the drive leg from salt water (better than zincs alone
that is).
Have you talked with a dealer about gearing and props yet? A chat
now may save some surprises later. On second thought if the boat
isn't a plastic runabout the dealer may be clueless but you need
to talk to someone.
Have fun.
hal
The inboards I've looked at are straight sea water cooled. Raw water
circulates through the engine then through the exhaust riser and out the
exhaust pipe.
You can get closed loop that uses a water-water exchanger for the engine.
Exhaust is still muffled and cooled by raw water. These are usually a
$600.00 option.
Space is not an issue on the Wyo. S.A. said the radiator could be mounted
on the engine bay front or roof under a dorade box. Electric fan anywhere
to exhaust fumes and heat and pulling air in through the radiator.
Keel cooler seems better, don't know......
Jeff
circulates through the engine then through the exhaust riser and out the
exhaust pipe.
You can get closed loop that uses a water-water exchanger for the engine.
Exhaust is still muffled and cooled by raw water. These are usually a
$600.00 option.
Space is not an issue on the Wyo. S.A. said the radiator could be mounted
on the engine bay front or roof under a dorade box. Electric fan anywhere
to exhaust fumes and heat and pulling air in through the radiator.
Keel cooler seems better, don't know......
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Engine cooling
> Size? Loss of interior space? Large ductwork for burried engine.
>
> Out of curiosity, do inboard engines use a water-water heat exchanger, or
do
> they suck up sea water and pump it through the engine? The former I would
> guess.
>
> So, with water cooling you would have the water-water exchanger, and a
> seawater pump. Much more compact than a radiator.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeff" <boatbuilding@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:11 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Engine cooling
>
>
> > S.A. mentioned in a phone call about using a radiator to cool an inboard
> > rather than sea water cooling. Cheaper, reliable, etc. where some of
the
> > words mentioned. Electric cooling fan is used as the blower for fumes,
> less
> > engine bay heat, etc.
> >
> > What are the downsides?
> >
> > On a sterndrive setup, one could use the raw water pump to cool the
> exhaust
> > while the radiator could handle the engine or use well insulated dry
stack
> > exhaust.
> >
> > Probably noisier with the fan but that could be tolerated on a boat
like
> > the Wyo where it's a long ways from the engine to the cabin.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Size? Loss of interior space? Large ductwork for burried engine.
Out of curiosity, do inboard engines use a water-water heat exchanger, or do
they suck up sea water and pump it through the engine? The former I would
guess.
So, with water cooling you would have the water-water exchanger, and a
seawater pump. Much more compact than a radiator.
Out of curiosity, do inboard engines use a water-water heat exchanger, or do
they suck up sea water and pump it through the engine? The former I would
guess.
So, with water cooling you would have the water-water exchanger, and a
seawater pump. Much more compact than a radiator.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeff" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: [bolger] Engine cooling
> S.A. mentioned in a phone call about using a radiator to cool an inboard
> rather than sea water cooling. Cheaper, reliable, etc. where some of the
> words mentioned. Electric cooling fan is used as the blower for fumes,
less
> engine bay heat, etc.
>
> What are the downsides?
>
> On a sterndrive setup, one could use the raw water pump to cool the
exhaust
> while the radiator could handle the engine or use well insulated dry stack
> exhaust.
>
> Probably noisier with the fan but that could be tolerated on a boat like
> the Wyo where it's a long ways from the engine to the cabin.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
S.A. mentioned in a phone call about using a radiator to cool an inboard
rather than sea water cooling. Cheaper, reliable, etc. where some of the
words mentioned. Electric cooling fan is used as the blower for fumes, less
engine bay heat, etc.
What are the downsides?
On a sterndrive setup, one could use the raw water pump to cool the exhaust
while the radiator could handle the engine or use well insulated dry stack
exhaust.
Probably noisier with the fan but that could be tolerated on a boat like
the Wyo where it's a long ways from the engine to the cabin.
Jeff
rather than sea water cooling. Cheaper, reliable, etc. where some of the
words mentioned. Electric cooling fan is used as the blower for fumes, less
engine bay heat, etc.
What are the downsides?
On a sterndrive setup, one could use the raw water pump to cool the exhaust
while the radiator could handle the engine or use well insulated dry stack
exhaust.
Probably noisier with the fan but that could be tolerated on a boat like
the Wyo where it's a long ways from the engine to the cabin.
Jeff