Re: Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates Ferrocement?
> The erosion/breakdown of the mold adds to the expense if you areCool reply, thanks.
> trying to do more than one.
>
> Dick
>
> Fill the hullThe method used by Grumman to build aluminum canoes involved using
> with water and explosives, and shoot it off.
hydraulics to put a massive stretch on an aluminum sheet. While the
plate was over-stressed, hydraulic rams pushed forms against the
sheet to get a molded shape.
PHV
----- Original Message -----
From:pesterle@...
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates Ferrocement?
> FC is also very dependant on the skill of the
>plasterers in getting good penatration and adhesioin to the mesh.
I knew a fellow who spent 5 long hard years building the armature for a 50' ferro sailboat. He said the (supposed) professional plasterers screwed up the mix and ruined the boat. It cracked, and he abandoned the project. It all comes down to one day. Heartbreaking to say the least.
I almost bought plans for Benford FC boat in the 70's but ended up building a plywood Wharram instead. Glad I did. At least if you screw something up you can fix it.
I would tell anyone who wants a ferro boat these days to find a good one and buy it. Why build for more $ in materials than you could buy a good boat for? The bad ones brought down the resale value of the whole class. There are a lot of good ones though.
Gary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This sounds like HERF (High Energy Rate Forming) which is used to
form brittle or hard-to-form materials, like tungsten for rocket
nozzles and chemical processing parts.
One problem that may have been glossed over is that the volume
between the hull and the mold needs to be a pretty good vacuum.
Otherwise, the trapped gasses put "ripples" or "bubbles" in the final
form.
Also, the explosive needs to be distributed somewhat evenly over the
entire area. The whole idea is that if the rate of forming exceeds a
critcal velocity for a material, the material behaves like a liquid
and not a solid. You don't want a lopsided bubble.
The erosion/breakdown of the mold adds to the expense if you are
trying to do more than one.
Dick
form brittle or hard-to-form materials, like tungsten for rocket
nozzles and chemical processing parts.
One problem that may have been glossed over is that the volume
between the hull and the mold needs to be a pretty good vacuum.
Otherwise, the trapped gasses put "ripples" or "bubbles" in the final
form.
Also, the explosive needs to be distributed somewhat evenly over the
entire area. The whole idea is that if the rate of forming exceeds a
critcal velocity for a material, the material behaves like a liquid
and not a solid. You don't want a lopsided bubble.
The erosion/breakdown of the mold adds to the expense if you are
trying to do more than one.
Dick
--- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> I think a better, well at least more fun method was one I saw A
> picture of in an Australian magazine. You build a mold in the
> ground, and then insert a welded chined stell hull. Fill the hull
> with water and explosives, and shoot it off. The pressure as well
as
> exiting upwards, presses the hull out into a nice curved shape.
The
> advantages are only in multiples.
>
> Maybe I was naive, but they seemed serious...
--- In bolger@y..., stephensonhw@a... wrote:
been one of the british mags. But if they have success, I guess it
would be well known. Could also have been that glossy french
Multihull magazine, not that the boat in question was a multihull.
> In a message dated 21-06-02 9:14:17 AM E. Australia Standard Time,hull
> proaconstrictor@y... writes:
>
>
> > I think a better, well at least more fun method was one I saw A
> > picture of in an Australian magazine. You build a mold in the
> > ground, and then insert a welded chined stell hull. Fill the
> > with water and explosives, and shoot it off. The pressure aswell as
> > exiting upwards, presses the hull out into a nice curved shape.The
> > advantages are only in multiples.I saw this in some magazine over 5 years ago. I think it may have
> >
> > Maybe I was naive, but they seemed serious...
> >
> >
>
> Was it the April issue of the magazine?
been one of the british mags. But if they have success, I guess it
would be well known. Could also have been that glossy french
Multihull magazine, not that the boat in question was a multihull.
>
> Howard
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 21-06-02 9:14:17 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
proaconstrictor@...writes:
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
proaconstrictor@...writes:
> I think a better, well at least more fun method was one I saw AWas it the April issue of the magazine?
> picture of in an Australian magazine. You build a mold in the
> ground, and then insert a welded chined stell hull. Fill the hull
> with water and explosives, and shoot it off. The pressure as well as
> exiting upwards, presses the hull out into a nice curved shape. The
> advantages are only in multiples.
>
> Maybe I was naive, but they seemed serious...
>
>
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 21-06-02 8:24:07 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
wmrpage@...writes:
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wmrpage@...writes:
> Too true! Strikes me as kind of humorous. Basically, in conventionalI guess traditional wooden boats are mainly held together by friction.
> platform-and-frame house construction, the buildings are only held together
>
> by friction and the force of gravity! No way to build a boat, that's for
> sure
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think a better, well at least more fun method was one I saw A
picture of in an Australian magazine. You build a mold in the
ground, and then insert a welded chined stell hull. Fill the hull
with water and explosives, and shoot it off. The pressure as well as
exiting upwards, presses the hull out into a nice curved shape. The
advantages are only in multiples.
Maybe I was naive, but they seemed serious...
picture of in an Australian magazine. You build a mold in the
ground, and then insert a welded chined stell hull. Fill the hull
with water and explosives, and shoot it off. The pressure as well as
exiting upwards, presses the hull out into a nice curved shape. The
advantages are only in multiples.
Maybe I was naive, but they seemed serious...
In a message dated 6/20/02 12:49:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
proaconstrictor@...writes:
platform-and-frame house construction, the buildings are only held together
by friction and the force of gravity! No way to build a boat, that's for
sure!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
proaconstrictor@...writes:
> That may be, but the building system we most comonly use, puts a 2x4Too true! Strikes me as kind of humorous. Basically, in conventional
> every 16", when the wall could be supported on the fiber in the
> sheating alone. Roofs are even more ridiculous.
platform-and-frame house construction, the buildings are only held together
by friction and the force of gravity! No way to build a boat, that's for
sure!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 6/20/02 10:12:16 AM Central Daylight Time,cupp@...
writes:
system. I think a bit of skepticism is in order.
Between wood, ordinary carbon steel and aluminum there is surprisingly little
difference in tensile strength v. weight. Portland cement has negligible
tensile strength and it has a "brittle" fracture mechanism. It does not seem
very likely that combining steel and Portland cement could create some sort
of miracle product. A useful one for sure, but not one that exceeds the
strength and fracture resistance of wood, steel or aluminum on a weight
basis. If it did, one could be sure that it would be used, regardless of
labor costs, in cost-is-no-object race boats instead of the aluminum,
cold-molded wood and composite lay-ups that dominate those categories.
Some traditionally designed boats relied upon very heavy scantlings and
planking to compensate for what is basically structurally inefficient design
(planks and ribs joined at right angles), relatively weak fastenings (its is
very difficult to transfer tension loads in wood with mechanical fasteners),
difficulty in sealing the hull (oakum pounded in to plank seams, etc.) and
the effects of water absorption, fastener corrosion and rot. I don't doubt
that vessels of this type could not be adapted to ferro-cement construction
with a considerable loss of weight, but the same would be the case, only more
so, if such designs were re-engineered for building in wood using modern
techniques and materials. Whether it would make any sense to re-engineer such
designs in the first place, rather than starting from first principals with a
blank sheet of paper is another matter.
My 2 pence,
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Ferrocement is a super reinforced concrete. It differs fromI suspect the books you have read were all written by proponents of the
> conventional concrete in that there is a higher ratio of steel to
> cement mortar. By altering the cement/steel ratio to make ferrocement
> they actually produce a material which exhibits properties superior
> to either steel or cement separately. Ferrocement has many of the
> properties of steel and yet it will not rust. Although it looks and
> feels like concrete, it can flex without cracking.
>
system. I think a bit of skepticism is in order.
Between wood, ordinary carbon steel and aluminum there is surprisingly little
difference in tensile strength v. weight. Portland cement has negligible
tensile strength and it has a "brittle" fracture mechanism. It does not seem
very likely that combining steel and Portland cement could create some sort
of miracle product. A useful one for sure, but not one that exceeds the
strength and fracture resistance of wood, steel or aluminum on a weight
basis. If it did, one could be sure that it would be used, regardless of
labor costs, in cost-is-no-object race boats instead of the aluminum,
cold-molded wood and composite lay-ups that dominate those categories.
Some traditionally designed boats relied upon very heavy scantlings and
planking to compensate for what is basically structurally inefficient design
(planks and ribs joined at right angles), relatively weak fastenings (its is
very difficult to transfer tension loads in wood with mechanical fasteners),
difficulty in sealing the hull (oakum pounded in to plank seams, etc.) and
the effects of water absorption, fastener corrosion and rot. I don't doubt
that vessels of this type could not be adapted to ferro-cement construction
with a considerable loss of weight, but the same would be the case, only more
so, if such designs were re-engineered for building in wood using modern
techniques and materials. Whether it would make any sense to re-engineer such
designs in the first place, rather than starting from first principals with a
blank sheet of paper is another matter.
My 2 pence,
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Are you saying that a canal barge can built of FC and a Bolger design
can't? Would you care to elaborate on that please?
can't? Would you care to elaborate on that please?
--- In bolger@y..., "timothyennuinet" <timothy@e...> wrote:
> Quick note: I would be building out of FC if I didnt want a shallow
> draft Bolger design. FC hulls have been known to last for many
years.
> In England, a canal barge made of the stuff was broken up and the
> steel was brand new inside. Pretty impressive considering the boat
was
> 100+ years old. ;)
>
> --T
Assuming that it is the hull only that is made of ferrcement, I am
curious as to how the rest of the boat is constructed? For example,
decks, interior accomodations shrouds, engine mounts and so forth.
What tools does one use to make portholes, and other through hulls?
Also is expoxy compatible in fastenings, or bolts and sealants or
what?
If ferrocement is so superior, why is there not more of them made
professionaly? For competition? Has anyone seen such a craft
recently? Or sailed on one? How does it compare to glass, steel,
aluminum, tar paper, and wood for practicality, repairing and resale
value?
I recall back many years that geodesic domes were widely touted as
the greatest way to construct a building. Yet people had all kinds of
difficulty making the interior livable without a lot of waste space.
Seems that was about the same time that ferrocement became widely
touted as well!
Nels
curious as to how the rest of the boat is constructed? For example,
decks, interior accomodations shrouds, engine mounts and so forth.
What tools does one use to make portholes, and other through hulls?
Also is expoxy compatible in fastenings, or bolts and sealants or
what?
If ferrocement is so superior, why is there not more of them made
professionaly? For competition? Has anyone seen such a craft
recently? Or sailed on one? How does it compare to glass, steel,
aluminum, tar paper, and wood for practicality, repairing and resale
value?
I recall back many years that geodesic domes were widely touted as
the greatest way to construct a building. Yet people had all kinds of
difficulty making the interior livable without a lot of waste space.
Seems that was about the same time that ferrocement became widely
touted as well!
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "announcer97624" <cupp@k...> wrote:
> Of course I myself personally cannot give you practical examples
> because I have yet to build a Ferrocement boat. From all the
> literature I have read from the library the consensus is that in
> comparison, the length/weight ratio improves to the point where
ferro
> boats can be built much lighter than equivalent wooden or steel
> vessels, and as light as those constructed with "hand laid" GRP.
>
> Ferrocement is a super reinforced concrete. It differs from
> conventional concrete in that there is a higher ratio of steel to
> cement mortar. By altering the cement/steel ratio to make
ferrocement
> they actually produce a material which exhibits properties superior
> to either steel or cement separately. Ferrocement has many of the
> properties of steel and yet it will not rust. Although it looks and
> feels like concrete, it can flex without cracking.
>
> Because the Portland Cement used to make ferrocement undergoes a
> chemical reaction similar to epoxy when it cures, it adheres to the
> steel reinforcement creating a barrier for oxidation(rust). The
> constituent materials, mortar and steel, have almost identical
> coefficients of expansion, which means they will expand and
contract
> at the same rate with the changes in temperature. There is
therefore
> no, or very little, cracking or separation at the steel/mortar
> interface.
>
> Ferrocement is used every year by college students to build canoes
> that compete in a National Concrete Canoe Competition sponsored by
> the American Society of Civil Engineers. Typical weights for the
14'
> boats built by students is about 65 lbs or more. They are fast and
> sturdy.
>
> For the most part the building labor is critical because the
> literature I have read states that the hull should be cemented in
one
> continues operation. Depending on how large the boat is might
require
> a team of talented plasterers to attain a smooth finish. I am going
> to try some smaller projects first like a few large flower pots to
> become familiar with the material before I finish my workshop.
>
> John
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> > Would be interested if you can explain how it gets to be lighter
> than
> > wood! I can sort of understand how if it was done just right it
> might
> > be lighter than steel. BTW, Platt Monfort used to have a material
> > which I think was polyester resin and steel.
> Ferrocement is used every year by college students to build canoes14'
> that compete in a National Concrete Canoe Competition sponsored by
> the American Society of Civil Engineers. Typical weights for the
> boats built by students is about 65 lbs or more. They are fast andThat's my point, 65# is more than twice what this boat would weigh in
> sturdy.
>
wood, and three times what it would weigh in carbon fiber. Fully
wood layed would be about the same as carbon, but these examples have
glass skins:
http://www.grasseriverboatworks.com/
That doesn't mean ferro is a bad material, but weight isn't
impressing me.
Of course I myself personally cannot give you practical examples
because I have yet to build a Ferrocement boat. From all the
literature I have read from the library the consensus is that in
comparison, the length/weight ratio improves to the point where ferro
boats can be built much lighter than equivalent wooden or steel
vessels, and as light as those constructed with "hand laid" GRP.
Ferrocement is a super reinforced concrete. It differs from
conventional concrete in that there is a higher ratio of steel to
cement mortar. By altering the cement/steel ratio to make ferrocement
they actually produce a material which exhibits properties superior
to either steel or cement separately. Ferrocement has many of the
properties of steel and yet it will not rust. Although it looks and
feels like concrete, it can flex without cracking.
Because the Portland Cement used to make ferrocement undergoes a
chemical reaction similar to epoxy when it cures, it adheres to the
steel reinforcement creating a barrier for oxidation(rust). The
constituent materials, mortar and steel, have almost identical
coefficients of expansion, which means they will expand and contract
at the same rate with the changes in temperature. There is therefore
no, or very little, cracking or separation at the steel/mortar
interface.
Ferrocement is used every year by college students to build canoes
that compete in a National Concrete Canoe Competition sponsored by
the American Society of Civil Engineers. Typical weights for the 14'
boats built by students is about 65 lbs or more. They are fast and
sturdy.
For the most part the building labor is critical because the
literature I have read states that the hull should be cemented in one
continues operation. Depending on how large the boat is might require
a team of talented plasterers to attain a smooth finish. I am going
to try some smaller projects first like a few large flower pots to
become familiar with the material before I finish my workshop.
John
because I have yet to build a Ferrocement boat. From all the
literature I have read from the library the consensus is that in
comparison, the length/weight ratio improves to the point where ferro
boats can be built much lighter than equivalent wooden or steel
vessels, and as light as those constructed with "hand laid" GRP.
Ferrocement is a super reinforced concrete. It differs from
conventional concrete in that there is a higher ratio of steel to
cement mortar. By altering the cement/steel ratio to make ferrocement
they actually produce a material which exhibits properties superior
to either steel or cement separately. Ferrocement has many of the
properties of steel and yet it will not rust. Although it looks and
feels like concrete, it can flex without cracking.
Because the Portland Cement used to make ferrocement undergoes a
chemical reaction similar to epoxy when it cures, it adheres to the
steel reinforcement creating a barrier for oxidation(rust). The
constituent materials, mortar and steel, have almost identical
coefficients of expansion, which means they will expand and contract
at the same rate with the changes in temperature. There is therefore
no, or very little, cracking or separation at the steel/mortar
interface.
Ferrocement is used every year by college students to build canoes
that compete in a National Concrete Canoe Competition sponsored by
the American Society of Civil Engineers. Typical weights for the 14'
boats built by students is about 65 lbs or more. They are fast and
sturdy.
For the most part the building labor is critical because the
literature I have read states that the hull should be cemented in one
continues operation. Depending on how large the boat is might require
a team of talented plasterers to attain a smooth finish. I am going
to try some smaller projects first like a few large flower pots to
become familiar with the material before I finish my workshop.
John
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> Would be interested if you can explain how it gets to be lighter
than
> wood! I can sort of understand how if it was done just right it
might
> be lighter than steel. BTW, Platt Monfort used to have a material
> which I think was polyester resin and steel.
Wow.
Well, if you folks want to see the info on the topic of FC, go here:
http://www.ferroboats.com
Plenty of information. You also may want to look up books on FC
construction at amazon.
Quick note: I would be building out of FC if I didnt want a shallow
draft Bolger design. FC hulls have been known to last for many years.
In England, a canal barge made of the stuff was broken up and the
steel was brand new inside. Pretty impressive considering the boat was
100+ years old. ;)
--T
Well, if you folks want to see the info on the topic of FC, go here:
http://www.ferroboats.com
Plenty of information. You also may want to look up books on FC
construction at amazon.
Quick note: I would be building out of FC if I didnt want a shallow
draft Bolger design. FC hulls have been known to last for many years.
In England, a canal barge made of the stuff was broken up and the
steel was brand new inside. Pretty impressive considering the boat was
100+ years old. ;)
--T
FC boats peaked back in the '70's. While it is true that the raw cost of
materials for the hull is cheaper than most any other material, the cost
of the bare hull is a low percentage of the overall cost of a boat in the
sizes practical for FC. FC is also very dependant on the skill of the
plasterers in getting good penatration and adhesioin to the mesh. Fairing
the pipe frames prior to attaching the mesh was/is also critical in
getting a fair hull. That being said, many well constructed FC boats exist
and are sailing.
Paul
materials for the hull is cheaper than most any other material, the cost
of the bare hull is a low percentage of the overall cost of a boat in the
sizes practical for FC. FC is also very dependant on the skill of the
plasterers in getting good penatration and adhesioin to the mesh. Fairing
the pipe frames prior to attaching the mesh was/is also critical in
getting a fair hull. That being said, many well constructed FC boats exist
and are sailing.
Paul
>Assuming that it is the hull only that is made of ferrcement, I am01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>curious as to how the rest of the boat is constructed? For example,
>decks, interior accomodations shrouds, engine mounts and so forth.
>What tools does one use to make portholes, and other through hulls?
>Also is expoxy compatible in fastenings, or bolts and sealants or
>what?
>
>If ferrocement is so superior, why is there not more of them made
>professionaly? For competition? Has anyone seen such a craft
>recently? Or sailed on one? How does it compare to glass, steel,
>aluminum, tar paper, and wood for practicality, repairing and resale
>value?
>
>I recall back many years that geodesic domes were widely touted as
>the greatest way to construct a building. Yet people had all kinds of
>difficulty making the interior livable without a lot of waste space.
>Seems that was about the same time that ferrocement became widely
>touted as well!
>
>Nels
>
>--- In bolger@y..., "announcer97624" <cupp@k...> wrote:
>> Of course I myself personally cannot give you practical examples
>> because I have yet to build a Ferrocement boat. From all the
>> literature I have read from the library the consensus is that in
>> comparison, the length/weight ratio improves to the point where
>ferro
>> boats can be built much lighter than equivalent wooden or steel
>> vessels, and as light as those constructed with "hand laid" GRP.
>>
>> Ferrocement is a super reinforced concrete. It differs from
>> conventional concrete in that there is a higher ratio of steel to
>> cement mortar. By altering the cement/steel ratio to make
>ferrocement
>> they actually produce a material which exhibits properties superior
>> to either steel or cement separately. Ferrocement has many of the
>> properties of steel and yet it will not rust. Although it looks and
>> feels like concrete, it can flex without cracking.
>>
>> Because the Portland Cement used to make ferrocement undergoes a
>> chemical reaction similar to epoxy when it cures, it adheres to the
>> steel reinforcement creating a barrier for oxidation(rust). The
>> constituent materials, mortar and steel, have almost identical
>> coefficients of expansion, which means they will expand and
>contract
>> at the same rate with the changes in temperature. There is
>therefore
>> no, or very little, cracking or separation at the steel/mortar
>> interface.
>>
>> Ferrocement is used every year by college students to build canoes
>> that compete in a National Concrete Canoe Competition sponsored by
>> the American Society of Civil Engineers. Typical weights for the
>14'
>> boats built by students is about 65 lbs or more. They are fast and
>> sturdy.
>>
>> For the most part the building labor is critical because the
>> literature I have read states that the hull should be cemented in
>one
>> continues operation. Depending on how large the boat is might
>require
>> a team of talented plasterers to attain a smooth finish. I am going
>> to try some smaller projects first like a few large flower pots to
>> become familiar with the material before I finish my workshop.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> --- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
>> > Would be interested if you can explain how it gets to be lighter
>> than
>> > wood! I can sort of understand how if it was done just right it
>> might
>> > be lighter than steel. BTW, Platt Monfort used to have a material
>> > which I think was polyester resin and steel.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Well let me resend this, I would hate for Richard to get blamed for an
opinion of mine. A little inaccurate on message placement in the
original.
"Harry W. James" wrote:
opinion of mine. A little inaccurate on message placement in the
original.
"Harry W. James" wrote:
>
> Richard Spelling wrote:
> Not if it is done right. Ferrocement is a very contentious subject, with
> many strong opinions held. It got its bad rep because of many
> homebuilders believing that it was an easy, cheap fast way to fulfill
> their dreams and voyage off into the sunset. When done right it is very
> strong and extremely long lived probably, (opinion here) the most long
> lived of any marine construction material. I would expect any well done
> hull to go for several generations. As far as the 25' limit, Jay Benford
> built a mini 12 that had a hull thickness of 1/4".
>
> Hulls (1/3 of total cost) are cheap as far as materials go, but the
> process is very labor intensive.
>
> HJ
>
> > Doesn't the rebar eventualy rust out?
> >
> > Also, don't you have to wire together 10,000 or so reinfocement bars?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "announcer97624" <cupp@...>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:55 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates
> > Ferrocement?
> >
> > | I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
> > | actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
> > | real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning on
> > | building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
> > | the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
> > | paper and shingles.
> > |
> > | John
> > |
> > |
> > |
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Richard Spelling wrote:
Not if it is done right. Ferrocement is a very contentious subject, with
many strong opinions held. It got its bad rep because of many
homebuilders believing that it was an easy, cheap fast way to fulfill
their dreams and voyage off into the sunset. When done right it is very
strong and extremely long lived probably, (opinion here) the most long
lived of any marine construction material. I would expect any well done
hull to go for several generations. As far as the 25' limit, Jay Benford
built a mini 12 that had a hull thickness of 1/4".
Hulls (1/3 of total cost) are cheap as far as materials go, but the
process is very labor intensive.
HJ
Not if it is done right. Ferrocement is a very contentious subject, with
many strong opinions held. It got its bad rep because of many
homebuilders believing that it was an easy, cheap fast way to fulfill
their dreams and voyage off into the sunset. When done right it is very
strong and extremely long lived probably, (opinion here) the most long
lived of any marine construction material. I would expect any well done
hull to go for several generations. As far as the 25' limit, Jay Benford
built a mini 12 that had a hull thickness of 1/4".
Hulls (1/3 of total cost) are cheap as far as materials go, but the
process is very labor intensive.
HJ
> Doesn't the rebar eventualy rust out?
>
> Also, don't you have to wire together 10,000 or so reinfocement bars?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "announcer97624" <cupp@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:55 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates
> Ferrocement?
>
> | I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
> | actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
> | real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning on
> | building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
> | the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
> | paper and shingles.
> |
> | John
> |
> |
> |
>Lighter than comparable could mean anything. Wood could certainly be
> | I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
> | actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats.
lighter than ferro, mean means more weight where you need it, and
less total weight ot build.
The other
> | real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I amplanning on
> | building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to coverplywood,
> | the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to
That may be, but the building system we most comonly use, puts a 2x4
every 16", when the wall could be supported on the fiber in the
sheating alone. Roofs are even more ridiculous. You have a layer
for global loads, a layer for finish, a layer for insulation, a layer
for platform loards, a layer for sheathing, a layer for ice, a layer
for wind, and a layer for water. Unless you get some panel system
like SIPS, there isn't much integration. That isn't the case with
boats. One layer of skin, and some well proportiomed frames, and you
don't use much material.
> | paper and shingles.posts
> |
> | John
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and<snip> away
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> | - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> |
> |
> |
--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
> Doesn't the rebar eventualy rust out?bars?
>
> Also, don't you have to wire together 10,000 or so reinfocement
>planning on
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "announcer97624" <cupp@k...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:55 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates
> Ferrocement?
>
>
> | I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
> | actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
> | real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am
> | building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to coverplywood,
> | the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to
> | paper and shingles.posts
> |
> | John
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and<snip> away
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> | - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> |
> |
> |
Doesn't the rebar eventualy rust out?
Also, don't you have to wire together 10,000 or so reinfocement bars?
Also, don't you have to wire together 10,000 or so reinfocement bars?
----- Original Message -----
From: "announcer97624" <cupp@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [bolger] Has PCB ever designed anything that incorporates
Ferrocement?
| I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
| actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
| real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning on
| building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
| the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
| paper and shingles.
|
| John
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Would be interested if you can explain how it gets to be lighter than
wood! I can sort of understand how if it was done just right it might
be lighter than steel. BTW, Platt Monfort used to have a material
which I think was polyester resin and steel.
wood! I can sort of understand how if it was done just right it might
be lighter than steel. BTW, Platt Monfort used to have a material
which I think was polyester resin and steel.
--- In bolger@y..., "announcer97624" <cupp@k...> wrote:
> I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
> actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
> real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning
on
> building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
> the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
> paper and shingles.
>
> John
Bolger did to a couple boats in FC, back whenever the craze was.
Early 1970's I guess. The chapter in Small Boats about Prancing Pony
(I think) contains the remark, "the last wasn't as bad as the first."
Peter
Early 1970's I guess. The chapter in Small Boats about Prancing Pony
(I think) contains the remark, "the last wasn't as bad as the first."
Peter
I mention this because in boat lengths above 25' Ferrocement
actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning on
building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
paper and shingles.
John
actually is lighter than comparable wood or steel boats. The other
real pleasant difference is lower construction cost. I am planning on
building my new larger Bowroof workshop using Ferrocement to cover
the building at a substantial reduction in cost compared to plywood,
paper and shingles.
John