Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Sailing experience
In a message dated 24-06-02 3:06:20 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
proaconstrictor@...writes:
contribution and the rest are your quotations from other posts. I was just
trying to get the name right. But we already have one battle going here and
we don't need another one do we?
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
proaconstrictor@...writes:
> --- In bolger@y..., stephensonhw@a... wrote:I think the > symbols are meant to show that "the head layout" is your
> > In a message dated 22-06-02 2:38:48 PM E. Australia Standard Time,
> > proaconstrictor@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > the head layout.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I
> > > think the
> > > > design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the
> files
> > > would also
> > >
> >
>
> Actualy, I didn't write that.
>
contribution and the rest are your quotations from other posts. I was just
trying to get the name right. But we already have one battle going here and
we don't need another one do we?
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., stephensonhw@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 22-06-02 2:38:48 PM E. Australia Standard Time,files
> proaconstrictor@y... writes:
>
>
> > the head layout.
> > >
> > > Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I
> > think the
> > > design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the
> > would alsoActualy, I didn't write that.
> >
>
I gather that he spent quite a bit of time sailing his sharpie
POINTER in his home waters many years ago. In his writeup on BLACK
GAUNTLET II (in "Small Boats") he mentions that he won a series of
races in POINTER against a Pearson Trident.
POINTER in his home waters many years ago. In his writeup on BLACK
GAUNTLET II (in "Small Boats") he mentions that he won a series of
races in POINTER against a Pearson Trident.
In a message dated 22-06-02 2:38:48 PM E. Australia Standard Time,
proaconstrictor@...writes:
poem which at one time very famous called "The Wreck of the Hesperus". My
mother used to say to anyone who was in a state of disorder "you look like
the wreck of the Hesperus."
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
proaconstrictor@...writes:
> the head layout.Close. It was Hesperus, another of Bolger's literary names. There was a
> >
> > Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I
> think the
> > design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the files
> would also
>
poem which at one time very famous called "The Wreck of the Hesperus". My
mother used to say to anyone who was in a state of disorder "you look like
the wreck of the Hesperus."
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the head layout.
the rail in the galley bay and the overhead grab rails. Nothing was
said about the toilet arrangements, with stanchion to hook your
elbows around, a grab to hold yourself down, back braces, and the
storm anchor lashed down to jam your toes under, but I still think
these amenities got me the prize. They happened to have been arrived
at in troopships, not ocean racers, but the waves were the same"
>think the
> Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I
> design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the fileswould also
> destroy any theory about Bolger only being a box boat designer withsimple
> rigs."The judges commented that I must have been to sea. They referred to
>
> Stuart Crawford
the rail in the galley bay and the overhead grab rails. Nothing was
said about the toilet arrangements, with stanchion to hook your
elbows around, a grab to hold yourself down, back braces, and the
storm anchor lashed down to jam your toes under, but I still think
these amenities got me the prize. They happened to have been arrived
at in troopships, not ocean racers, but the waves were the same"
If memory serves me correctly, there is a design for an ocean racing yacht
that Bolger entered into a design competition, in "30 ODD BOATS". In his
comments, he says that the competition organizers or judges (can't remember
which) said that it was evident that he had ocean racing experience, due to
the way he had designed the head layout.
Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I think the
design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the files would also
destroy any theory about Bolger only being a box boat designer with simple
rigs.
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 22/6/02 6:58 AM, proaconstrictor atproaconstrictor@...wrote:
that Bolger entered into a design competition, in "30 ODD BOATS". In his
comments, he says that the competition organizers or judges (can't remember
which) said that it was evident that he had ocean racing experience, due to
the way he had designed the head layout.
Perhaps someone with a copy of 30 ODD BOATS could elaborate. I think the
design was called something like Esperous. A scan into the files would also
destroy any theory about Bolger only being a box boat designer with simple
rigs.
Stuart Crawford
New Zealand
on 22/6/02 6:58 AM, proaconstrictor atproaconstrictor@...wrote:
> That 481 thread does raise some interesting issues about what
> Bolger's experience is. He is one of my favorite designers, and I
> don't doubt he is a very experienced waterman, but what is the
> evidence? If someone asked me at a party I couldn't really say.
>
> He writes very little about his own boating. He confeses to not
> prefering the recreation of sail, and says he likes kayaking. he
> refers on occasion to shoal draft excursions. He has spent a lot of
> time in boats tied up somewhere.
>
> Though various racing and extreme sailing ventures are a little silly
> from a practical perspective, if you aren't going to test your
> boats "out there", there are a number of ways of getting others to do
> it for you. But racing is wrong because he prides himself on not
> having ever read a rating rule. What about openish races like the
> Ostar? He seems interested in a variety of casino rama racing
> exercises that have the main feature of appealing to no one.
>
> I am just playing devil's advocate. I have a pile of his/payson's
> books, and there isn't a first person cruising story that stands out
> in my memory. That's fine by me, I like canoeing and occasional
> sailing myself, his designs suit my uses pretty well, but what would
> his sailing CV look like anyway?
In a message dated 22-06-02 5:32:45 AM E. Australia Standard Time,
pvanderw@...writes:
Also, I think that several of his third-person cruising stories relate to his
own experience e.g. the March three-man cruise to Bucks Harbour, Maine in
Marina Cruiser.
Howard
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pvanderw@...writes:
>I think he also sailed across the Pacific both ways in a troop carrier.
> If you read all his books and all his MAIB articles, I think you come
> to the conclusions that:
>
> 1) He has substantial coastal cruising experience in New England in
> his own boats, and some elsewhere including the Med.
>
> 2) He raced boats for some years in his youth.
>
>
Also, I think that several of his third-person cruising stories relate to his
own experience e.g. the March three-man cruise to Bucks Harbour, Maine in
Marina Cruiser.
Howard
Howard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
3) An boat/car/rocketship DESIGNER need not be a PILOT to be able to
design a good craft. =)
If a person has loads of commonsense, and friends who ARE experienced
sailors to test out designs, there is no need for the designer to be
as salty, since he can draw from other's experience to correct his
assumptions.
My opinion, worth 2 cents I'd imagine. :)
--T
> > what would<snip>
> > his sailing CV look like anyway?
>
> If you read all his books and all his MAIB articles, I think you come
> to the conclusions that:
>
> 1) He has substantial coastal cruising experience in New England in
> his own boats, and some elsewhere including the Med.
>
> 2) He raced boats for some years in his youth.
3) An boat/car/rocketship DESIGNER need not be a PILOT to be able to
design a good craft. =)
If a person has loads of commonsense, and friends who ARE experienced
sailors to test out designs, there is no need for the designer to be
as salty, since he can draw from other's experience to correct his
assumptions.
My opinion, worth 2 cents I'd imagine. :)
--T
> what wouldIf you read all his books and all his MAIB articles, I think you come
> his sailing CV look like anyway?
to the conclusions that:
1) He has substantial coastal cruising experience in New England in
his own boats, and some elsewhere including the Med.
2) He raced boats for some years in his youth.
The one revealing cruising story that I know of appeared in MAIB
within the last couple years. It described sailing one of his first
sharpies from the builder in Maine to Gloucester and described some
questionable seamanship and poor navigation.
He has made any number of claims for his boats that can be
questioned. For example, the claims made for the original version of
Martha Jane. He makes it pretty clear that he considers the sailor's
skill to be a key component in the seaworthiness of any vessel.
Peter
That 481 thread does raise some interesting issues about what
Bolger's experience is. He is one of my favorite designers, and I
don't doubt he is a very experienced waterman, but what is the
evidence? If someone asked me at a party I couldn't really say.
He writes very little about his own boating. He confeses to not
prefering the recreation of sail, and says he likes kayaking. he
refers on occasion to shoal draft excursions. He has spent a lot of
time in boats tied up somewhere.
Though various racing and extreme sailing ventures are a little silly
from a practical perspective, if you aren't going to test your
boats "out there", there are a number of ways of getting others to do
it for you. But racing is wrong because he prides himself on not
having ever read a rating rule. What about openish races like the
Ostar? He seems interested in a variety of casino rama racing
exercises that have the main feature of appealing to no one.
I am just playing devil's advocate. I have a pile of his/payson's
books, and there isn't a first person cruising story that stands out
in my memory. That's fine by me, I like canoeing and occasional
sailing myself, his designs suit my uses pretty well, but what would
his sailing CV look like anyway?
Bolger's experience is. He is one of my favorite designers, and I
don't doubt he is a very experienced waterman, but what is the
evidence? If someone asked me at a party I couldn't really say.
He writes very little about his own boating. He confeses to not
prefering the recreation of sail, and says he likes kayaking. he
refers on occasion to shoal draft excursions. He has spent a lot of
time in boats tied up somewhere.
Though various racing and extreme sailing ventures are a little silly
from a practical perspective, if you aren't going to test your
boats "out there", there are a number of ways of getting others to do
it for you. But racing is wrong because he prides himself on not
having ever read a rating rule. What about openish races like the
Ostar? He seems interested in a variety of casino rama racing
exercises that have the main feature of appealing to no one.
I am just playing devil's advocate. I have a pile of his/payson's
books, and there isn't a first person cruising story that stands out
in my memory. That's fine by me, I like canoeing and occasional
sailing myself, his designs suit my uses pretty well, but what would
his sailing CV look like anyway?