Re: [bolger] Re: AS-29 Self righting??
Very interesting stuff. Thanks. Leo
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We saw the well-traveled MJ Steadfast at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
Festival last year, and talked a bit with her owner/builder Bennett
Scheurer. Somebody asked about the "problem" and Bennett pretty much said
there is none. He knows the people who suffered the knockdown, which indeed
was a scary experience, but he thinks they put too much blame on the boat.
IIRC, the knockdown occurred in quite shallow water and the mainmast got
stuck in the sand, if that hadn't happened the boat might well have righted
herself. Of course Bennett isn't unbiased, he's put, IIRC, 20 some-odd
thousand miles on his MJ (mostly on the trailer <g>). The knockdown was
discussed on this list, shortly after it happened, but I don't know what the
subject line was, and there have been a _lot_ of MJ threads over the
years... Some photos of Steadfast can be seen near the top of this page (boy
those MJs sure are homely! <g>):
http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2001/
Festival last year, and talked a bit with her owner/builder Bennett
Scheurer. Somebody asked about the "problem" and Bennett pretty much said
there is none. He knows the people who suffered the knockdown, which indeed
was a scary experience, but he thinks they put too much blame on the boat.
IIRC, the knockdown occurred in quite shallow water and the mainmast got
stuck in the sand, if that hadn't happened the boat might well have righted
herself. Of course Bennett isn't unbiased, he's put, IIRC, 20 some-odd
thousand miles on his MJ (mostly on the trailer <g>). The knockdown was
discussed on this list, shortly after it happened, but I don't know what the
subject line was, and there have been a _lot_ of MJ threads over the
years... Some photos of Steadfast can be seen near the top of this page (boy
those MJs sure are homely! <g>):
http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2001/
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:35:21 -0400, Leo wrote:
> ...
> I'm still trying to gather hard
> data, facts, specifics about the "problem" with the MJ.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>
Steve- you wrote:
"I hope that everyone knows by
now that the original design was/is not self-righting. She was far
from it. The updated design is much better in that regard. But my
martha jane experiences make me skeptical of the as 29 as a self-
righting boat. I'm not saying that she isn't - but I'd take nothing
for granted."
My question is,are any details or facts available?
Leoandsandy@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"I hope that everyone knows by
now that the original design was/is not self-righting. She was far
from it. The updated design is much better in that regard. But my
martha jane experiences make me skeptical of the as 29 as a self-
righting boat. I'm not saying that she isn't - but I'd take nothing
for granted."
My question is,are any details or facts available?
Leoandsandy@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark- thanks for the links. My computer problem was AOL based; using
Internet Explorer solved the problem. I'm still trying to gather hard
data, facts, specifics about the "problem" with the MJ.
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:38:07 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Leo,
That's pretty baffling. I hope your teenager can help. There are several
MJ's featured,
including Mike Stockstill's Rambunctious, showing the high house and
sponsons. Come to
think of it, in the meantime see
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/seap21/marthajane.html
BTW that MAIB back issue may be available for $2 directly from
Bob Hicks, Editor
MAIB
29 Burley St.
Wenham, MA 01984-1943
(978) 774-0906
If you like, send me your mailing address and I'll fair use copy it to
you.
Mark
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Internet Explorer solved the problem. I'm still trying to gather hard
data, facts, specifics about the "problem" with the MJ.
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:38:07 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Leo,
That's pretty baffling. I hope your teenager can help. There are several
MJ's featured,
including Mike Stockstill's Rambunctious, showing the high house and
sponsons. Come to
think of it, in the meantime see
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/seap21/marthajane.html
BTW that MAIB back issue may be available for $2 directly from
Bob Hicks, Editor
MAIB
29 Burley St.
Wenham, MA 01984-1943
(978) 774-0906
If you like, send me your mailing address and I'll fair use copy it to
you.
Mark
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
>away
> Thanks, Mark, but it's a no-go. I'll check with a local teenage guru.
> I've tried everything. Leo
>
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
> >
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip>
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,away
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip>
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comhttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leo,
That's pretty baffling. I hope your teenager can help. There are several MJ's featured,
including Mike Stockstill's Rambunctious, showing the high house and sponsons. Come to
think of it, in the meantime see
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/seap21/marthajane.html
BTW that MAIB back issue may be available for $2 directly from
Bob Hicks, Editor
MAIB
29 Burley St.
Wenham, MA 01984-1943
(978) 774-0906
If you like, send me your mailing address and I'll fair use copy it to you.
Mark
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
That's pretty baffling. I hope your teenager can help. There are several MJ's featured,
including Mike Stockstill's Rambunctious, showing the high house and sponsons. Come to
think of it, in the meantime see
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/seap21/marthajane.html
BTW that MAIB back issue may be available for $2 directly from
Bob Hicks, Editor
MAIB
29 Burley St.
Wenham, MA 01984-1943
(978) 774-0906
If you like, send me your mailing address and I'll fair use copy it to you.
Mark
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mark, but it's a no-go. I'll check with a local teenage guru.
> I've tried everything. Leo
>
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
> >
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Thanks, Mark, but it's a no-go. I'll check with a local teenage guru.
I've tried everything. Leo
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:28:54 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Leo & Sandy,
I get it fine. It's a short URL, but could it be wrapping for you?
Try Tim Fatchen's Square Boats Home Page and see if you can tack to,
"Incredible Bolger
Boxes" from there.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've tried everything. Leo
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:28:54 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Leo & Sandy,
I get it fine. It's a short URL, but could it be wrapping for you?
Try Tim Fatchen's Square Boats Home Page and see if you can tack to,
"Incredible Bolger
Boxes" from there.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
>dovekiesailor
> This site does not work here. What's the problem?
> For more dreamboating seehttp://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
>Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have replies for three (3) messages in this thread.
1. OSTAR. Who would imagine, but Bolger has designed two different
OSTAR boats, although neither competed, as far as I know. One is a
Bolger Box shape with gaff cat rig and liftable keel. The other was
lug rig, fixed keel, multichine shape. In addition, the database has
a 59' OSTAR concept.
2. Rig for offshore. The cat yawl rig is not especially well suited
for offshore for several reasons, but the probably the most important
is that the boom is too long. In a hard chance it may drag in the
water and a) break, b) keep the sail from luffing, c) prevent the
boat from turning into the wind, or d) other. The usual rule for a
boom is twice the beam of the boat, but I would think the fact that
the boat is narrow in way of the mast would made the problem worse.
In the AS-29, the fact that the boom is high off the water would
mitigate to some extent. Other problems with the cat-yawl rig are the
heavy weight of the mast in the bow, lack of working room around the
mast, windage of the mast in the bow which might reduce your options
in a survival situation.
3. Self-righting. The AS-29 is different from the Martha Jane in
several respects. The ballast displacement ratio is higher, and the
deck arrangement prevents flooding.
Peter
1. OSTAR. Who would imagine, but Bolger has designed two different
OSTAR boats, although neither competed, as far as I know. One is a
Bolger Box shape with gaff cat rig and liftable keel. The other was
lug rig, fixed keel, multichine shape. In addition, the database has
a 59' OSTAR concept.
2. Rig for offshore. The cat yawl rig is not especially well suited
for offshore for several reasons, but the probably the most important
is that the boom is too long. In a hard chance it may drag in the
water and a) break, b) keep the sail from luffing, c) prevent the
boat from turning into the wind, or d) other. The usual rule for a
boom is twice the beam of the boat, but I would think the fact that
the boat is narrow in way of the mast would made the problem worse.
In the AS-29, the fact that the boom is high off the water would
mitigate to some extent. Other problems with the cat-yawl rig are the
heavy weight of the mast in the bow, lack of working room around the
mast, windage of the mast in the bow which might reduce your options
in a survival situation.
3. Self-righting. The AS-29 is different from the Martha Jane in
several respects. The ballast displacement ratio is higher, and the
deck arrangement prevents flooding.
Peter
--- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
recent mail tonight. I noticed that one of the posts re. the as 29
being self-righting made reference to claims that the martha jane
(original design) was self-righting. I hope that everyone knows by
now that the original design was/is not self-righting. She was far
from it. The updated design is much better in that regard. But my
martha jane experiences make me skeptical of the as 29 as a self-
righting boat. I'm not saying that she isn't - but I'd take nothing
for granted.
I really do believe that when we get into these larger sharpies that
self-righting capablity is very realistic - ( check out the Norwalk
Island sharpies for example) - but they must be designed to be self-
righting. In fact - I have extremely strong feelings about this. Big
boats should be self-righting. With what we know about design and
ballast - and with the aid of computers there is no excuse for not
designing a boat to be self-righting. Small boats can be righted
easily - big ones depend upon design. It's the skipper's
responsiblity to keep the boat on her feet - but when that doesn't
happen - it's the designer's responsiblity to see that the boat can
take care of herself and crew.
Steve Anderson (Martha Jane Landroval)
> Hello everyone, this is my first post as I just discovered thisI haven't been keeping up much with the list lately and checked up on
> wonderful design today.
>
> My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
> completely over, is she self righting?
>
> Q
recent mail tonight. I noticed that one of the posts re. the as 29
being self-righting made reference to claims that the martha jane
(original design) was self-righting. I hope that everyone knows by
now that the original design was/is not self-righting. She was far
from it. The updated design is much better in that regard. But my
martha jane experiences make me skeptical of the as 29 as a self-
righting boat. I'm not saying that she isn't - but I'd take nothing
for granted.
I really do believe that when we get into these larger sharpies that
self-righting capablity is very realistic - ( check out the Norwalk
Island sharpies for example) - but they must be designed to be self-
righting. In fact - I have extremely strong feelings about this. Big
boats should be self-righting. With what we know about design and
ballast - and with the aid of computers there is no excuse for not
designing a boat to be self-righting. Small boats can be righted
easily - big ones depend upon design. It's the skipper's
responsiblity to keep the boat on her feet - but when that doesn't
happen - it's the designer's responsiblity to see that the boat can
take care of herself and crew.
Steve Anderson (Martha Jane Landroval)
( Resent. Message swallowed? )
Peter,
This sharky lookin' thing is one Bolger home built OSTAR boat. Not much like AS-29.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Foils%3A%20Boards%2C%20rudders%2C%20keels/Wingkeel/mfplan.jpg
Or back up to this for more on all the modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Foils%3A%20Boards%2C%20rudders%2C%20keels/
It's more like what I think of as a blue water boat. The deep keel and high ends
contribute much towards self righting -as opposed to knockdown recovery that may come from
shallow ballast and high sides.
Mark
Peter,
This sharky lookin' thing is one Bolger home built OSTAR boat. Not much like AS-29.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Foils%3A%20Boards%2C%20rudders%2C%20keels/Wingkeel/mfplan.jpg
Or back up to this for more on all the modifications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Foils%3A%20Boards%2C%20rudders%2C%20keels/
It's more like what I think of as a blue water boat. The deep keel and high ends
contribute much towards self righting -as opposed to knockdown recovery that may come from
shallow ballast and high sides.
Mark
> pvanderwaart wrote:
>
> > The OSTAR design is a different boat. It has a deep heavy fin keel
> > and a gaff cat rig. The freeboard is much lower so there is not much
> > room, especially headroom, inside.
> >
> > PHV
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Leo & Sandy,
I get it fine. It's a short URL, but could it be wrapping for you?
Try Tim Fatchen's Square Boats Home Page and see if you can tack to, "Incredible Bolger
Boxes" from there.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
I get it fine. It's a short URL, but could it be wrapping for you?
Try Tim Fatchen's Square Boats Home Page and see if you can tack to, "Incredible Bolger
Boxes" from there.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm#menu
Leoandsandy@...wrote:
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
> This site does not work here. What's the problem? dovekiesailor
> For more dreamboating see
>
An interesting comparison can be made between the AS-29 and some other
small boats on <http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html> . The
capsize screening formula for the AS-29 is lower than that for the
Pearson Triton, Allied Seabreeze and Alberg 30, three boats with
numerous circumnavigations to their credit (BTW, none of these boats
have interiors optimized for offshore sailing, either). Of course,
such a low number does not necessarily a world-girdler make. Those two
bilgeboard boxes worry me; I would like to see the same design with a
shoal keel, a la Micro.
I'm not sure if Bolger ever dismissed using AS-29 offshore--nothing
I've read from him indicates that. I do understand your comments about
the companionway ladder, although the same comfiguration seems to have
been a non-issue for the Wises during their Atlantic crossing in Loose
Moose 2. Could you clarify why you feel the rig is inappropriate for
offshore use?
porky
small boats on <http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html> . The
capsize screening formula for the AS-29 is lower than that for the
Pearson Triton, Allied Seabreeze and Alberg 30, three boats with
numerous circumnavigations to their credit (BTW, none of these boats
have interiors optimized for offshore sailing, either). Of course,
such a low number does not necessarily a world-girdler make. Those two
bilgeboard boxes worry me; I would like to see the same design with a
shoal keel, a la Micro.
I'm not sure if Bolger ever dismissed using AS-29 offshore--nothing
I've read from him indicates that. I do understand your comments about
the companionway ladder, although the same comfiguration seems to have
been a non-issue for the Wises during their Atlantic crossing in Loose
Moose 2. Could you clarify why you feel the rig is inappropriate for
offshore use?
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> > My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
> > completely over, is she self righting?
>
> Implicit in the designer's comments about this boat is that he feels
> it is safe for coastal cruising, which pretty much means that he
> feels she won't be damaged by strong winds. Big seas in an offshore
> storm are another matter. Just about any boat can be rolled, and all
> but a very few boats have a range of "upside-down stability." That
> is, if inverted, they will stay inverted until/unless another wave
> rolls them back right-side up. The prospects of that depend on how
> much water gets in the hull, what happens to the rig, and other
> imponderables.
>
> PCB's comments on his shoal draft designs (like the AS-29) reveal
his
> belief that if one of these boats is hit by a breaking wave, it will
> slide to leeward without rolling, especially if the boards are not
> lowered enough to trip on. I don't have the experience to evaluate
> that proposition. Another Bolger design, Romp, is about the same
size
> and shape (except she has rounded corners and not boxy chines)
> survived a hurricane. Seamanship has a big part to play, of course.
>
> The AS-29 is not designed as an ocean-crosser. The rig is not well
> suited, nor are the interior accomdations. She was designed as a
live-
> aboard and coastal cruiser, and I think she is as safe as you could
> expect a 30-footer to be in those roles. At least, if you don't fall
> off the vertical, side-facing companionway latter.
>
> Peter
This site does not work here. What's the problem? dovekiesailor
On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:18:30 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Hi, Q:
Did you see this in the book 'Boats With An Open Mind?' All Philip Bolger
claims is, "They
recover from knockdowns in reassuring fashion."
For more dreamboating see
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
Mark
qyid wrote:
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:18:30 -0700 Mark Albanese <marka@...>
writes:
Hi, Q:
Did you see this in the book 'Boats With An Open Mind?' All Philip Bolger
claims is, "They
recover from knockdowns in reassuring fashion."
For more dreamboating see
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
Mark
qyid wrote:
>Bolger rules!!!
> Hello everyone, this is my first post as I just discovered this
> wonderful design today.
>
> My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
> completely over, is she self righting?
>
> Q
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> In BW's old CSD catalogue he says, "The boat...is a result of aThe OSTAR design is a different boat. It has a deep heavy fin keel
> request for a home built OSTAR racer."
and a gaff cat rig. The freeboard is much lower so there is not much
room, especially headroom, inside.
PHV
In BW's old CSD catalogue he says, "The boat...is a result of a request for a home built
OSTAR racer." This does not mean that boat is identical with AS-29. An inveterate
promoter, BW also repeated Mike O'Brian's notion that the original Martha Jane is, "Self righting."
Mark
proaconstrictor wrote:
OSTAR racer." This does not mean that boat is identical with AS-29. An inveterate
promoter, BW also repeated Mike O'Brian's notion that the original Martha Jane is, "Self righting."
Mark
proaconstrictor wrote:
> I thought someone built one for the OSTAR, or that was discussed. Or
> was that maybe Loose Moose.
>
> The AS-29 is not designed as an ocean-crosser. The rig is not welllive-
> suited, nor are the interior accomdations. She was designed as a
> aboard and coastal cruiser, and I think she is as safe as you couldfall
> expect a 30-footer to be in those roles. At least, if you don't
> off the vertical, side-facing companionway latter.I thought someone built one for the OSTAR, or that was discussed. Or
>
> Peter
was that maybe Loose Moose.
> My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolledImplicit in the designer's comments about this boat is that he feels
> completely over, is she self righting?
it is safe for coastal cruising, which pretty much means that he
feels she won't be damaged by strong winds. Big seas in an offshore
storm are another matter. Just about any boat can be rolled, and all
but a very few boats have a range of "upside-down stability." That
is, if inverted, they will stay inverted until/unless another wave
rolls them back right-side up. The prospects of that depend on how
much water gets in the hull, what happens to the rig, and other
imponderables.
PCB's comments on his shoal draft designs (like the AS-29) reveal his
belief that if one of these boats is hit by a breaking wave, it will
slide to leeward without rolling, especially if the boards are not
lowered enough to trip on. I don't have the experience to evaluate
that proposition. Another Bolger design, Romp, is about the same size
and shape (except she has rounded corners and not boxy chines)
survived a hurricane. Seamanship has a big part to play, of course.
The AS-29 is not designed as an ocean-crosser. The rig is not well
suited, nor are the interior accomdations. She was designed as a live-
aboard and coastal cruiser, and I think she is as safe as you could
expect a 30-footer to be in those roles. At least, if you don't fall
off the vertical, side-facing companionway latter.
Peter
Q, you'll have to have a peek at Andrew Pryer's Long Micro. It is a
little shorter than the AS-29 but Andrews boat is already a real head
turner and it isn't even finished yet!
http://members.tripod.com/rivalduke/index.htm
Even if you don't like the Long Micro as much as the AS-29 you'll
agree that this particular LM is a very handsome sailboat being built
by an artist. What I would like to know is if the AS-39 can be pulled
on a trailer without permits?
John
little shorter than the AS-29 but Andrews boat is already a real head
turner and it isn't even finished yet!
http://members.tripod.com/rivalduke/index.htm
Even if you don't like the Long Micro as much as the AS-29 you'll
agree that this particular LM is a very handsome sailboat being built
by an artist. What I would like to know is if the AS-39 can be pulled
on a trailer without permits?
John
--- In bolger@y..., Mark Albanese <marka@h...> wrote:
> Hi, Q:
>
> Did you see this in the book 'Boats With An Open Mind?' All Philip
Bolger claims is, "They
> recover from knockdowns in reassuring fashion."
>
> For more dreamboating see
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
>
> Mark
>
> qyid wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone, this is my first post as I just discovered this
> > wonderful design today.
> >
> > My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
> > completely over, is she self righting?
> >
> > Q
Hi, Q:
Did you see this in the book 'Boats With An Open Mind?' All Philip Bolger claims is, "They
recover from knockdowns in reassuring fashion."
For more dreamboating see
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
Mark
qyid wrote:
Did you see this in the book 'Boats With An Open Mind?' All Philip Bolger claims is, "They
recover from knockdowns in reassuring fashion."
For more dreamboating see
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm#as29
Mark
qyid wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, this is my first post as I just discovered this
> wonderful design today.
>
> My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
> completely over, is she self righting?
>
> Q
Hello everyone, this is my first post as I just discovered this
wonderful design today.
My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
completely over, is she self righting?
Q
wonderful design today.
My question is: If the AS-29 were knocked down or even rolled
completely over, is she self righting?
Q