[bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
John:
IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to odd
shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to odd
shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
of
> building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
> in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
> heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
filled
> with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
wood/concrete
> interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
> further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
> > To:bolger@egroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> >
> > Oooo....
> >
> > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
original
> > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
> > would
> > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
the
> > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
whole
> > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
> > first place.
> >
> > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
> >
> > Robert & Amy Lundy
> > St. Petersburg, fla.
> >robert@...
> >amy@...
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
> > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
> > > To:bolger@...
> > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
> > >
> > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
It
> > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
convenience
> > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
> > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
> > >
> > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
that
> > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
> > >
> > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
> > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
> > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
> > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
> > > showers could be used as a core material.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
> >
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>
>
Yes, that's a good point and another very good idea. Having all these minds
working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a 'distributed
processing platform' for all of us biological computers.
working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a 'distributed
processing platform' for all of us biological computers.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Leinweber [SMTP:duckworks@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:15 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
>
> John:
>
> IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to
> odd
> shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
> plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?
>
> Chuck Leinweber
> Duckworks Magazine
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
>
>
> > Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
> of
> > building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the
> lead
> > in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
> > heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
> filled
> > with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
> wood/concrete
> > interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy
> for
> > further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
> > > To:bolger@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> > >
> > > Oooo....
> > >
> > > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
> original
> > > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
> > > would
> > > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
> the
> > > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
> whole
> > > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in
> the
> > > first place.
> > >
> > > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
> > >
> > > Robert & Amy Lundy
> > > St. Petersburg, fla.
> > >robert@...
> > >amy@...
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
> > > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
> > > > To:bolger@...
> > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
> > > >
> > > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
> It
> > > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
> convenience
> > > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
> > > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
> that
> > > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
> > > >
> > > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> > > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
> aluminum
> > > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
> > > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
> sort
> > > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or
> under
> > > > showers could be used as a core material.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
> > > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
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> > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> > > > --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
>
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>
Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease of
building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be filled
with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the wood/concrete
interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be filled
with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the wood/concrete
interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
>
> Oooo....
>
> Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
> thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
> would
> give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
> lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
> thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
> first place.
>
> Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
>
> Robert & Amy Lundy
> St. Petersburg, fla.
>robert@...
>amy@...
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
> > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
> > To:bolger@...
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> >
> >
> >
> > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
> >
> > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
> > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
> > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
> > use epoxy instead of polyester.
> >
> > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
> > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
> >
> > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
> > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
> > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
> > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
> > showers could be used as a core material.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
> > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
> >
> > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> > --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,
> no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the
> credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
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> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>get the **$�$! board out,A wee bit of lateral thinking here - but have you checked the slot and made
>plane it
> > down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.
>
>
>Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
>the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
>
>
sure that it's not getting narrower (i.e. sides swelling)? That'd have the
same effect as a swelling board (though harder to fix). The slot should be
1.5" wide all over. The board should be 1.25" thick in the middle.
Have PCB&F got any views on the suitability of a steel centreplate for a
Chebacco?
Bill
Bill
Bill
______________________________________________________
Lincoln:
The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpaper to achieve a raw surface onto which the epoxy and thus the wood, can bond. The sanding dust remains in the epoxy, where it presumably does no harm. I haven't tried this, but it seems workable on aluminum, and would save you the demanding surface prep that is usually required, as you suggest. Someone mentioned fastening the plywood to the aluminum with copper rivets, I think. In seawater I believe this would turn the board into a nice battery and rapidly devour the aluminum. You could get away with it in most fresh water environments, however,
david
The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpaper to achieve a raw surface onto which the epoxy and thus the wood, can bond. The sanding dust remains in the epoxy, where it presumably does no harm. I haven't tried this, but it seems workable on aluminum, and would save you the demanding surface prep that is usually required, as you suggest. Someone mentioned fastening the plywood to the aluminum with copper rivets, I think. In seawater I believe this would turn the board into a nice battery and rapidly devour the aluminum. You could get away with it in most fresh water environments, however,
david
Lincoln Ross wrote:
An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
snipglued it with an epoxy that was
> formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate
by
> the end of the first season.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The aircraft book I have says to do both. BUt then again, your boat
will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps,
but if you have a little oil in there I'll bet you are still sunk.
david <galvin-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2202
will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps,
but if you have a little oil in there I'll bet you are still sunk.
david <galvin-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2202
> Lincoln:where
> The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals
> you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet
> epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpapersnip
> > An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that snip
I knew a guy who built wooden kayak paddles. He used aluminum plate
sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he
tried everything to get that aluminum to stick because the tips getting
knocked out was the number one reason for returns. His solution to the
problem was pretty simple. He would drill a number of holes in the aluminum.
Then, he'd thread the holes with thick fiberglass yarn pulled off a piece of
heavy glass cloth. Then he would slather the slot in the tip of the paddle
with epoxy and slide the aluminum tip in. He later converted to plastic tips
using this technique. I suspect it would work pretty well for making a
plywood centerboard with an aluminum center, too.
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he
tried everything to get that aluminum to stick because the tips getting
knocked out was the number one reason for returns. His solution to the
problem was pretty simple. He would drill a number of holes in the aluminum.
Then, he'd thread the holes with thick fiberglass yarn pulled off a piece of
heavy glass cloth. Then he would slather the slot in the tip of the paddle
with epoxy and slide the aluminum tip in. He later converted to plastic tips
using this technique. I suspect it would work pretty well for making a
plywood centerboard with an aluminum center, too.
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 9:32 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
> An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
> be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
> get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
> rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
> critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
> thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
> prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
>
>fraser.howel-@...(fraser howell) wrote:
> snipglued it with an epoxy that was
> > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
> > the end of the first season.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
> hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
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>
>
An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
fraser.howel-@...(fraser howell) wrote:
snipglued it with an epoxy that was
be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
fraser.howel-@...(fraser howell) wrote:
snipglued it with an epoxy that was
> formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
> the end of the first season.
>
Oooo....
Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
first place.
Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
first place.
Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
> Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
>
>
>
> My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
>
> Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
> would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
> in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
> use epoxy instead of polyester.
>
> The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
> the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
>
> There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
> core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
> some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
> waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
> showers could be used as a core material.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
>
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> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
My Chebacco centreboard is a sandwich of 1/2 " exterior ply enclosing
1/4" aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was
formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
the end of the first season. I then wrapped the edges in cloth and
epoxy, but that got stuck in the case by mid-summer. I've given up on
glue for the centrboard, and on trying to make the affair waterproof. I
riveted the whole thing with copper rivets prior to last season, and
have had no problems. The board is rigid, and takes the ground well, and
only needed about 3 lb of lead to sink properly.
The Chebacco rudder is welded al, and it has held up well. It has a
horizontal plate on the bottom, and I use it as a boarding ladder when
swimming.
Cheers;
Fraser Howell
1/4" aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was
formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
the end of the first season. I then wrapped the edges in cloth and
epoxy, but that got stuck in the case by mid-summer. I've given up on
glue for the centrboard, and on trying to make the affair waterproof. I
riveted the whole thing with copper rivets prior to last season, and
have had no problems. The board is rigid, and takes the ground well, and
only needed about 3 lb of lead to sink properly.
The Chebacco rudder is welded al, and it has held up well. It has a
horizontal plate on the bottom, and I use it as a boarding ladder when
swimming.
Cheers;
Fraser Howell
Jack Holt used the same centerboard construction on the GP-14, which
was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the
rubber friction device had a couple of screws. If you tightened them
down, the rubber squished to the sides, increasing friction.
Once when the friction wasn't holding the board down properly at a
regatta, we tied it down. Then, when we hit a reef, the board broke at
the pivot pin.
Peter.
djost <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2183
was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the
rubber friction device had a couple of screws. If you tightened them
down, the rubber squished to the sides, increasing friction.
Once when the friction wasn't holding the board down properly at a
regatta, we tied it down. Then, when we hit a reef, the board broke at
the pivot pin.
Peter.
djost <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2183
> My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a woodena pair
> centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
> buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like
> of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that theygrip
> the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, thelift
> combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
> Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will
> about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speedof the
> boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raisedanyway.
>think
> The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I
> that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft.I had
> occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. Themast
> was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken twoboards
> since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.well. It
>
> Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
>
> > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
> >
> > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work
> > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a greatconvenience
> > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason tothat
> > use epoxy instead of polyester.
> >
> > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
> > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.aluminum
> >
> > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
> > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there issort
> > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
> > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms orunder
> > showers could be used as a core material.
> >
> > Peter
> >
My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden
centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like a pair
of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they grip
the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will lift
about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed of the
boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised anyway.
The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I think
that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft. I had
occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The mast
was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two boards
since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.
Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like a pair
of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they grip
the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will lift
about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed of the
boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised anyway.
The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I think
that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft. I had
occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The mast
was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two boards
since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.
Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
> My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
>
> Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
> would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
> in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
> use epoxy instead of polyester.
>
> The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
> the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
>
> There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
> who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
> core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
> some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
> waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
> showers could be used as a core material.
>
> Peter
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
use epoxy instead of polyester.
The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
showers could be used as a core material.
Peter
Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
use epoxy instead of polyester.
The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
showers could be used as a core material.
Peter
"orr, jamie" <jor-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167
wrangled with PCB about construction; don't know if any changes were
made here. Haven't gotten a close enough look to say in which planes
it's warped. I know it seems inconceivable--mine was planed, glassed
and glued just two years ago. And Bill S. has the same problem.
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167
> Timor bend
>
> How is your board made? And how did it warp -- that is did it cup,
> longwise, or twist, or whatever?will
>
> My own board is still standing in the shed, so I have no idea what
> happen when it gets wet. However, with three pieces of ply laminatedwarping!
> together, then covered in glass, I'm amazed it can even think about
>Jamie, my board was made by Brad Story, who I guess is said to have
> Jamie Orr
>
wrangled with PCB about construction; don't know if any changes were
made here. Haven't gotten a close enough look to say in which planes
it's warped. I know it seems inconceivable--mine was planed, glassed
and glued just two years ago. And Bill S. has the same problem.
"samson family" <bill.samso-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172
the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172
> I've got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year'smaintenance
> is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out,plane it
> down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
"tim smith" <timk_smit-@...> wrote:
osnip
or lots of layers on the bottom and leading edge of a board. If you
made a foam core board it would be very easy to hot wire a very nice
airfoil shape. In simplest case all you would need is two templates, a
homemade bow to keep the wire tight, some .020" music wire, some jumper
cables and two 12 V batteries or a charger and a 12V battery. If you
look around model airplane sights or airplane homebuilding sites I am
sure you will find out how to do this. Of course if you use urethane
you mustn't hot wire it due to toxicity.
One model site: www.charlesriverrc.org (that's where I'd start looking
if I needed this info)
osnip
> "Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard IsnipI've seen glass rudders on Hobies. Seems like you might want some wood
>
> snipThe idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
> boards standard in glass boats? Osnip
or lots of layers on the bottom and leading edge of a board. If you
made a foam core board it would be very easy to hot wire a very nice
airfoil shape. In simplest case all you would need is two templates, a
homemade bow to keep the wire tight, some .020" music wire, some jumper
cables and two 12 V batteries or a charger and a 12V battery. If you
look around model airplane sights or airplane homebuilding sites I am
sure you will find out how to do this. Of course if you use urethane
you mustn't hot wire it due to toxicity.
One model site: www.charlesriverrc.org (that's where I'd start looking
if I needed this info)
Hi all:
In my one finished boat, a D4 pram, made as a learning experience, emphasis on
learning, I did run into significant board warping, in hindsight due to
first-timer stupidity, but here's my experiences for what they are worth.
Dagger board was built of 2 pieces of 1/4" ACX ply epoxied together and clear
(unthickened) epoxy coated on the outside. The "glueing" epoxy was not
thickened enough, first time it rained with the board outside the lamination
ripped apart, both sides cupped significantly, I saw many areas on the inside
that did not bond properly due to lack of epoxy. Where it did bond properly,
the wood tore apart at one of the other glue lines (i.e the glue lines in the
original plywood). Moral of the story, warping is a powerful force! As it was
near the end of the season, and we just wanted to get the boat in the water, I
went with a single 1/4' board, epoxy coated. Put it in the water it bends like
a banana (lengthwise warping) in about 5 minutes. Take it out and it dries to
more or less straight in a day or two. Put it back in...banana! As we were
still able to get it up and down the daggerboard trunk even in it's banana
shape and it didn't effect the boat's performance much my son and I just lived
with it, I'll cook up something better for the next season. I think that the
boat gets slightly more leeway when it's on the port tack, the curve - convex
side - facing downwind, my son doesn't think so, but he's been sailing a few
decades less than me. Either way it works "OK" for now. The rudder, on the
other hand is made out of a single piece of 1/2" nameless scrap ply and has not
warped at all. The strange part is that this particular piece of scrap has been
sitting out in my yard for at least two years, I used it as a rudder
specifically because it hadn't warped in all that time, this greyish,
dirt-stained hunk of ply. Go figure.
As for the "correct" way to do it, Dynamite Payson strongly reccomends using
marine ply for boards, even if you are using "el cheapo" ply for the rest, hows
that for backwards? Dave Carnell repeatedly writes that epoxy-coating is
useless for waterproffing and my experiences with the coated boards seem to
agree with that reasoning. I would assume that making a glass board involves
using glass cloth/matt around a core of some sort, as written up by others in
this thread. Would enough layers keep significant moisture away from a cheap
wood core? Dunno. But, seeing as how any warping WILL crack your board, and
given the amount of epoxy you'd be using for an expiramental wood-core board, I
think that one would be better off going with a foam core in the first place,
after all, that's what the surfboarders do nowadays - the old "woodie"
longboards are laminates if I remember correctly (laminated perpendicular to
the board surface). Does anyone have experience with topnotch marine-ply
boards?
Cheers!
Tom
In my one finished boat, a D4 pram, made as a learning experience, emphasis on
learning, I did run into significant board warping, in hindsight due to
first-timer stupidity, but here's my experiences for what they are worth.
Dagger board was built of 2 pieces of 1/4" ACX ply epoxied together and clear
(unthickened) epoxy coated on the outside. The "glueing" epoxy was not
thickened enough, first time it rained with the board outside the lamination
ripped apart, both sides cupped significantly, I saw many areas on the inside
that did not bond properly due to lack of epoxy. Where it did bond properly,
the wood tore apart at one of the other glue lines (i.e the glue lines in the
original plywood). Moral of the story, warping is a powerful force! As it was
near the end of the season, and we just wanted to get the boat in the water, I
went with a single 1/4' board, epoxy coated. Put it in the water it bends like
a banana (lengthwise warping) in about 5 minutes. Take it out and it dries to
more or less straight in a day or two. Put it back in...banana! As we were
still able to get it up and down the daggerboard trunk even in it's banana
shape and it didn't effect the boat's performance much my son and I just lived
with it, I'll cook up something better for the next season. I think that the
boat gets slightly more leeway when it's on the port tack, the curve - convex
side - facing downwind, my son doesn't think so, but he's been sailing a few
decades less than me. Either way it works "OK" for now. The rudder, on the
other hand is made out of a single piece of 1/2" nameless scrap ply and has not
warped at all. The strange part is that this particular piece of scrap has been
sitting out in my yard for at least two years, I used it as a rudder
specifically because it hadn't warped in all that time, this greyish,
dirt-stained hunk of ply. Go figure.
As for the "correct" way to do it, Dynamite Payson strongly reccomends using
marine ply for boards, even if you are using "el cheapo" ply for the rest, hows
that for backwards? Dave Carnell repeatedly writes that epoxy-coating is
useless for waterproffing and my experiences with the coated boards seem to
agree with that reasoning. I would assume that making a glass board involves
using glass cloth/matt around a core of some sort, as written up by others in
this thread. Would enough layers keep significant moisture away from a cheap
wood core? Dunno. But, seeing as how any warping WILL crack your board, and
given the amount of epoxy you'd be using for an expiramental wood-core board, I
think that one would be better off going with a foam core in the first place,
after all, that's what the surfboarders do nowadays - the old "woodie"
longboards are laminates if I remember correctly (laminated perpendicular to
the board surface). Does anyone have experience with topnotch marine-ply
boards?
Cheers!
Tom
I've got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year's maintenance
is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out, plane it
down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.
A sticking CB certainly puts a damper on going sailing.
Bill
is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out, plane it
down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.
A sticking CB certainly puts a damper on going sailing.
Bill
Tim
How is your board made? And how did it warp -- that is did it cup, or bend
longwise, or twist, or whatever?
My own board is still standing in the shed, so I have no idea what will
happen when it gets wet. However, with three pieces of ply laminated
together, then covered in glass, I'm amazed it can even think about warping!
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Smith [mailto:timk_smith@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:53 AM
To:bolger@...
Subject: [bolger] glass boards in wooden boats
The centerboard of my Chebacco has warped--again. While thinking about
replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
"Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
strong,
tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
board."
Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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How is your board made? And how did it warp -- that is did it cup, or bend
longwise, or twist, or whatever?
My own board is still standing in the shed, so I have no idea what will
happen when it gets wet. However, with three pieces of ply laminated
together, then covered in glass, I'm amazed it can even think about warping!
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Smith [mailto:timk_smith@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:53 AM
To:bolger@...
Subject: [bolger] glass boards in wooden boats
The centerboard of my Chebacco has warped--again. While thinking about
replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
"Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
strong,
tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
board."
Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Of course - some are solid, some are foam + glass, some are glassed wood.
Gregg Carlson
At 08:53 AM 2/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:
Gregg Carlson
At 08:53 AM 2/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>The centerboard of my Chebacco has warped--again. While thinking about
>replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
>Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
>shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
>
>"Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
>strong,
>tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
>straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
>permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
>board."
>
>Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
>ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
>boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
>wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
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>--http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=bolger&m=1
>
>
>
Don't know about wheather glass boards are standard on glass boats but, if I
were to build one at home, I think I would start with quarter inch ply as
the core. Then apply layers of glass and epoxy to the desired thickness.
Being totally encapsulated (really encapsulated) by several layers would
prevent the core from warping. Alternatively, you could use some dense foam
as the core (like a surfboard) or even a stiff piece of plastic.
were to build one at home, I think I would start with quarter inch ply as
the core. Then apply layers of glass and epoxy to the desired thickness.
Being totally encapsulated (really encapsulated) by several layers would
prevent the core from warping. Alternatively, you could use some dense foam
as the core (like a surfboard) or even a stiff piece of plastic.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Smith [SMTP:timk_smith@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:53 AM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] glass boards in wooden boats
>
> The centerboard of my Chebacco has warped--again. While thinking about
> replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
> Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
> shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
>
> "Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
> strong,
> tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
> straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
> permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
> board."
>
> Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
> ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
> boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
> wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
> hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
> you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
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>
> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
> --http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=bolger&m=1
>
The centerboard of my Chebacco has warped--again. While thinking about
replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
"Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
strong,
tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
board."
Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
replacing it I ran across the following, written 40 years ago in
Yachting by Spaulding Dunbar, a naval architect who made a specialty of
shoal-draft (wooden) cruising boats:
"Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard I know. It is
strong,
tough, and hard, and the worms won't eat it. Most important, it stays
straight and will neither warp and twist like a wood board, nor take a
permanent set and jam in the trunk, as so often happens with a metal
board."
Dunbar used glass boards (sometimes in tandem) in boats as big as 39
ft. l.o.a. The idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
boards standard in glass boats? Or was the idea tested and found
wanting? Any thoughts about how to make one at home?
For my D4 learning experiance, I used CDX pine from Home Depot and Titebond
II glue. Haven't see any warping in the water or caused by rain yet.
"Behrendt, Tom" wrote:
Hi all:
In my one finished boat, a D4 pram, made as a learning experience, emphasis
on
learning, I did run into significant board warping, in hindsight due
to
first-timer stupidity, but here's my experiences for what they are
worth.
Dagger board was built of 2 pieces of 1/4" ACX ply epoxied together
and clear
(unthickened) epoxy coated on the outside. The "glueing" epoxy was
not
thickened enough, first time it rained with the board outside the lamination
ripped apart, both sides cupped significantly, I saw many areas on
the inside
that did not bond properly due to lack of epoxy. Where it did bond
properly,
the wood tore apart at one of the other glue lines (i.e the glue lines
in the
original plywood). Moral of the story, warping is a powerful force!
As it was
near the end of the season, and we just wanted to get the boat in the
water, I
went with a single 1/4' board, epoxy coated. Put it in the water it
bends like
a banana (lengthwise warping) in about 5 minutes. Take it out and it
dries to
more or less straight in a day or two. Put it back in...banana! As
we were
still able to get it up and down the daggerboard trunk even in it's
banana
shape and it didn't effect the boat's performance much my son and I
just lived
with it, I'll cook up something better for the next season. I
think that the
boat gets slightly more leeway when it's on the port tack, the curve
- convex
side - facing downwind, my son doesn't think so, but he's been sailing
a few
decades less than me. Either way it works "OK" for now. The rudder,
on the
other hand is made out of a single piece of 1/2" nameless scrap ply
and has not
warped at all. The strange part is that this particular piece of scrap
has been
sitting out in my yard for at least two years, I used it as a rudder
specifically because it hadn't warped in all that time, this greyish,
dirt-stained hunk of ply. Go figure.
As for the "correct" way to do it, Dynamite Payson strongly reccomends
using
marine ply for boards, even if you are using "el cheapo" ply for the
rest, hows
that for backwards? Dave Carnell repeatedly writes that epoxy-coating
is
useless for waterproffing and my experiences with the coated boards
seem to
agree with that reasoning. I would assume that making a glass board
involves
using glass cloth/matt around a core of some sort, as written up by
others in
this thread. Would enough layers keep significant moisture away from
a cheap
wood core? Dunno. But, seeing as how any warping WILL crack your board,
and
given the amount of epoxy you'd be using for an expiramental wood-core
board, I
think that one would be better off going with a foam core in the first
place,
after all, that's what the surfboarders do nowadays - the old "woodie"
longboards are laminates if I remember correctly (laminated perpendicular
to
the board surface). Does anyone have experience with topnotch marine-ply
boards?
Cheers!
Tom
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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