Re: SPD & Wyoming
Triple Bigfoot 25's, now there's a plan. You'd have two way out at
the sides, perfect for maneuvering, the further apart they are the
better the differential thrust works. For economical cruising you
raise the outboard outboards (can you say that?) and run on the
single centreline unit. Not as crazy as it sounds. Does make for a
compact spare part collection. You might even have enough motors to
qualify for a Mercury fleet lease plan. These are secret factory
leases, only rental companies and such get them, not us poor Joe's
who only need one.
the sides, perfect for maneuvering, the further apart they are the
better the differential thrust works. For economical cruising you
raise the outboard outboards (can you say that?) and run on the
single centreline unit. Not as crazy as it sounds. Does make for a
compact spare part collection. You might even have enough motors to
qualify for a Mercury fleet lease plan. These are secret factory
leases, only rental companies and such get them, not us poor Joe's
who only need one.
> One very compelling reason Bolger calls out for the YamahaYet another good piece advice. S.A. did not mention this fact but then we
> Bigfoot(50hp) is that it has authority in emergency stopping(braking)
> situations.Just about any outboard can drive a boat forward but they
> are wimps when it comes to real stopping power.Something for you to
> consider as you build away ;-)
did not spend much time weighing the differences. A follow up letter from
Mr. Bolger stated something in the order of "twin outboards have merit and
is done often, but a good reliable single will work just as well without the
bother"
Thanks
Jeff
Jeff,
One very compelling reason Bolger calls out for the Yamaha
Bigfoot(50hp) is that it has authority in emergency stopping(braking)
situations.Just about any outboard can drive a boat forward but they
are wimps when it comes to real stopping power.Something for you to
consider as you build away ;-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,very busy with WINDERMERE,near the shores of the
St.Lawrence........
One very compelling reason Bolger calls out for the Yamaha
Bigfoot(50hp) is that it has authority in emergency stopping(braking)
situations.Just about any outboard can drive a boat forward but they
are wimps when it comes to real stopping power.Something for you to
consider as you build away ;-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,very busy with WINDERMERE,near the shores of the
St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Conservatively based on Gerr's chart, 1000 lbs/hp for 1.2 SL of
hull speed.
> For the Wyo that's 10 hp. With currents and weather in some cases
triple to
> 30 hp. But under normal conditions, I would expect 15 hp to come
close and
> 20 hp should do it most of the time.
>
> I plan on running a pair of outboards. Mr. Bolger calls for 50 hp
so since
> a pair is usually not as efficient, I'll size to about 30 or 35 hp
each. I
> should be able to alternate motors when running at hull speed. Run
each on
> a separate fuel tank. Good redundancy and better steering in tight
spots
> with two motors.
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stew Miller" <junkmail@m...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] SPD & Wyoming
>
>
> > jeff wrote:
> > > I did the calcs on the Wyo for power. My needs are for
cruising so I'll
> > > assume normally at 1.3 hull speed or about 10 mph using around
15hp,
> maybe
> > > 20 hp.
> >
> > Cruising the Wyoming on 15hp - sounds excellent! And you'll
still have
> > plenty of power available for combating wind and wave, or for a
fast
> > dash. Those long skinney hulls are great.
> >
> > Man o man, a lot of us are getting jealous.
> >
> >
> > Stew
> > KCMO
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>I have a Sea Star 2.0 hydraulic helm. It's the only way to steer from that
> Running only 1 of a pair introduces new problems. Assuming that you
> won't let the resting engine drag through the water, what will you do
> with it? If you tilt it up, then you will either have to disconnect
> the steering to one or deal with the issue of the weight of the
> tilted engine pulling the steering to one side or the other as you
> turn.
distance. (35') It'll be set up with a splitter valve with a cylinder on
each outboard. The extra weight should go unnoticed.
I hadn't thought of the kicker in reverse!
With all that aside, I'm interested in two outboards for the safety not so
much for control. The kicker is just big enough to go down wind or with a
current if the elements are against you. Alternating the outboards will
help prolong the life span of the investment. Plus that extra margin of
safety knowing I can lower another engine if needed. Two sets of controls
are needed with the kicker anyway. Just as well by two setups identical.
Cost is almost identical to a 50 hp with a kicker as two 35's.
In a worse case senerios as in no dealers, no money, no docks, deserted
island :>), or other reasons, I might be able to mix and match parts to make
one good engine.
With my paranoia, maybe do 3 - 25 hp Merc. Big Foots, hummm, that sounds
silly to say the lest but....
Jeff
Hi
Running only 1 of a pair introduces new problems. Assuming that you
won't let the resting engine drag through the water, what will you do
with it? If you tilt it up, then you will either have to disconnect
the steering to one or deal with the issue of the weight of the
tilted engine pulling the steering to one side or the other as you
turn.
Honestly, with an engine that pivots even slightly, I don't think you
will experience any significant loss of steering control when
docking, as compared to two fixed props. I was able to pivot my
MacGregor 26X in its own length with an engine that pivoted slightly.
I recommend that you try the boat with a single engine before running
out and investing in a second just so you can have docking control
(that I bet you will find you have anyway).
Just trying to save you some effort and expense....
(And to be really sneaky, it doesn't take but a few minutes of
experimenting to learn that you don't even need a pivoting engine to
move a boat sideways - without using any docking lines. Add the use
of dock lines and you can do anything you want very easily.)
Mike
PS. putting the kicker in reverse and the main engine in forward
will allow you some twist for that matter.
Running only 1 of a pair introduces new problems. Assuming that you
won't let the resting engine drag through the water, what will you do
with it? If you tilt it up, then you will either have to disconnect
the steering to one or deal with the issue of the weight of the
tilted engine pulling the steering to one side or the other as you
turn.
Honestly, with an engine that pivots even slightly, I don't think you
will experience any significant loss of steering control when
docking, as compared to two fixed props. I was able to pivot my
MacGregor 26X in its own length with an engine that pivoted slightly.
I recommend that you try the boat with a single engine before running
out and investing in a second just so you can have docking control
(that I bet you will find you have anyway).
Just trying to save you some effort and expense....
(And to be really sneaky, it doesn't take but a few minutes of
experimenting to learn that you don't even need a pivoting engine to
move a boat sideways - without using any docking lines. Add the use
of dock lines and you can do anything you want very easily.)
Mike
PS. putting the kicker in reverse and the main engine in forward
will allow you some twist for that matter.
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I plan on running a pair of outboards. Mr. Bolger calls for 50 hp
so since
> a pair is usually not as efficient, I'll size to about 30 or 35 hp
each. I
> should be able to alternate motors when running at hull speed. Run
each on
> a separate fuel tank. Good redundancy and better steering in tight
spots
> with two motors.
Conservatively based on Gerr's chart, 1000 lbs/hp for 1.2 SL of hull speed.
For the Wyo that's 10 hp. With currents and weather in some cases triple to
30 hp. But under normal conditions, I would expect 15 hp to come close and
20 hp should do it most of the time.
I plan on running a pair of outboards. Mr. Bolger calls for 50 hp so since
a pair is usually not as efficient, I'll size to about 30 or 35 hp each. I
should be able to alternate motors when running at hull speed. Run each on
a separate fuel tank. Good redundancy and better steering in tight spots
with two motors.
Jeff
For the Wyo that's 10 hp. With currents and weather in some cases triple to
30 hp. But under normal conditions, I would expect 15 hp to come close and
20 hp should do it most of the time.
I plan on running a pair of outboards. Mr. Bolger calls for 50 hp so since
a pair is usually not as efficient, I'll size to about 30 or 35 hp each. I
should be able to alternate motors when running at hull speed. Run each on
a separate fuel tank. Good redundancy and better steering in tight spots
with two motors.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stew Miller" <junkmail@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] SPD & Wyoming
> jeff wrote:
> > I did the calcs on the Wyo for power. My needs are for cruising so I'll
> > assume normally at 1.3 hull speed or about 10 mph using around 15hp,
maybe
> > 20 hp.
>
> Cruising the Wyoming on 15hp - sounds excellent! And you'll still have
> plenty of power available for combating wind and wave, or for a fast
> dash. Those long skinney hulls are great.
>
> Man o man, a lot of us are getting jealous.
>
>
> Stew
> KCMO
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
jeff wrote:
plenty of power available for combating wind and wave, or for a fast
dash. Those long skinney hulls are great.
Man o man, a lot of us are getting jealous.
Stew
KCMO
> I did the calcs on the Wyo for power. My needs are for cruising so I'llCruising the Wyoming on 15hp - sounds excellent! And you'll still have
> assume normally at 1.3 hull speed or about 10 mph using around 15hp, maybe
> 20 hp.
plenty of power available for combating wind and wave, or for a fast
dash. Those long skinney hulls are great.
Man o man, a lot of us are getting jealous.
Stew
KCMO
> I assume the vee bottom would allow the prop to pierce the surface goingThat's it exactly. Surface piercing props are of a design that has a lot of
> forward, but the prop would be fully submerged in reverse because the
> boat is not planing and has a deeper draft. The shallow draft of the
> Wyoming would leave the prop piercing the surface all the time.
slip in reverse. Full submerged in reverse makes them more effective.
> I've wondered if a surface drive could be converted to a DBD type driveI've even thought of designing my own liftable drive using U-Joints but all
> by increasing the angle so the prop is completely submerged (and
> changing the prop of course). I know surface drives are built for high
> horsepower and are expensive, but maybe one could be found at a
> junkyard. Has anyone here played with this idea?
said and done, a pair of outboards are easier and redundant for power.
I did the calcs on the Wyo for power. My needs are for cruising so I'll
assume normally at 1.3 hull speed or about 10 mph using around 15hp, maybe
20 hp.
To push the Wyo past 20 mph, it would exceed 100 hp. To get past 25 mph,
your pushing 200 hp. Fuel consumption at crusing gives me a range around
600 miles on 100 gallons. At 20 mph, a range of about 200 miles. At 25
mph, the range is a paltry 125 miles. I couln't afford to cruiser her fast
anyway.
A pair of 25 or 35 hp outboards seem to be making the most sense. Bolger
calls for a 50hp outboard and a 10hp kicker. Besides, no big regulations
for engine compartments, blowers, etc. Top speed should be around 15 mph,
and that's fast enough. Double or triple most displacement boats.
Jeff
jeff wrote:
forward, but the prop would be fully submerged in reverse because the
boat is not planing and has a deeper draft. The shallow draft of the
Wyoming would leave the prop piercing the surface all the time.
I've wondered if a surface drive could be converted to a DBD type drive
by increasing the angle so the prop is completely submerged (and
changing the prop of course). I know surface drives are built for high
horsepower and are expensive, but maybe one could be found at a
junkyard. Has anyone here played with this idea?
Stew
> After reviewingI assume the vee bottom would allow the prop to pierce the surface going
> my fax on the design, they have declined. Biggest reason is too shallow of
> a draft for a surface drive. Forward power would be good but reverse on
> that shallow of draft would not be good.
forward, but the prop would be fully submerged in reverse because the
boat is not planing and has a deeper draft. The shallow draft of the
Wyoming would leave the prop piercing the surface all the time.
I've wondered if a surface drive could be converted to a DBD type drive
by increasing the angle so the prop is completely submerged (and
changing the prop of course). I know surface drives are built for high
horsepower and are expensive, but maybe one could be found at a
junkyard. Has anyone here played with this idea?
Stew
Got a response back on the SPD drive regarding the Wyoming. After reviewing
my fax on the design, they have declined. Biggest reason is too shallow of
a draft for a surface drive. Forward power would be good but reverse on
that shallow of draft would not be good. Also, the 25 knts speed I
indicated as my preferred top speed was too slow for a surface drive.
Well, at least we know.
Jeff
my fax on the design, they have declined. Biggest reason is too shallow of
a draft for a surface drive. Forward power would be good but reverse on
that shallow of draft would not be good. Also, the 25 knts speed I
indicated as my preferred top speed was too slow for a surface drive.
Well, at least we know.
Jeff
Yow! 25 kts is too slow. Well, guess we know they don't sail for a
hobby....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:09 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] SPD & Wyoming
Got a response back on the SPD drive regarding the Wyoming. After
reviewing
my fax on the design, they have declined. Biggest reason is too shallow
of
a draft for a surface drive. Forward power would be good but reverse on
that shallow of draft would not be good. Also, the 25 knts speed I
indicated as my preferred top speed was too slow for a surface drive.
Well, at least we know.
Jeff
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1155068/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039
-302>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hobby....
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:09 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] SPD & Wyoming
Got a response back on the SPD drive regarding the Wyoming. After
reviewing
my fax on the design, they have declined. Biggest reason is too shallow
of
a draft for a surface drive. Forward power would be good but reverse on
that shallow of draft would not be good. Also, the 25 knts speed I
indicated as my preferred top speed was too slow for a surface drive.
Well, at least we know.
Jeff
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1155068/R=0/*http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039
-302>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]