Dealing with tape selving (was Re: Tack and tape question)

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >Good tip, how do you ensure you aren't cutting into the wood?

> Don't press too hard.


Yup. But you need to have a sharp blade so it only takes a little
pressure. If you pull the waste strip off as you move along you can
make cut a pretty accurate depth. Sometimes I go too light and have
to make a second, feather-light touch to finish the cut.

Kellan
>Good tip, how do you ensure you aren't cutting into the wood?
>
Don't press too hard.

-D

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Good tip, how do you ensure you aren't cutting into the wood?
I flipped the hull last night and laid the interior seams. One
trick I've learned is to try to catch the epoxy after it has kicked
but before it's cured (I think the proper term is "green?") and
trim the selving off the edge of the tape while it's still pliable.
It really reduces the sanding/scraping and gives you a very neat
edge. That's a pretty narrow time window in a hot July shop. I
timed it just right on the outside seems but the ones on the inside
were rock hard by the time I got back to them.

Kellan


> I think that is fine, I think it is fastest to coat the interior
> since you may want to wet-out the seam area anyway. But its up to
> you. For one thing, the fumes off all that surface area could be
> reason enough to follow the course you describe.
--- In bolger@y..., "dagon_gsl" <dagon_gsl@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for the pointers, Proaconstrictor.
>
> You don't mention interior fillets. Do you omit them? In
previous,
> not-so-instant boats I've done the interior tape and fillets in one
> pass and then epoxied the the interior panels between the tape.
Any
> reason to not do it that way?
>
> Kellan
>

I think that is fine, I think it is fastest to coat the interior
since you may want to wet-out the seam area anyway. But its up to
you. For one thing, the fumes off all that surface area could be
reason enough to follow the course you describe.

I do mention interior fillets, I used the word "cove", sorry if that
wasn't clear.

I just did all the two decks, and wraped the shears on the Eeek I am
building. I was using fast S3, and still managed to get everything
done in one step, about 2.5 hrs. In general slower epoxy would have
been preferable, but it was just cool enough (75-80) to keep ahead of
the kick.


Cove as much as you can work on at once (a full seam, or
> the
> > whole boat, though currently my epoxy is going up in smoke almost
> > before it hits the wood, due to heat), and imediately wet out
your
> > glass tape into the coves, use a brush to epoxy the glass,At
> points
> > where the seams run into something like the transom, scissor
round
> > the ends of the tape, and leave them short, do the same at the
> > straight runs on the transom, then connect those runs with
circles
> of
> > 10 oz cloth, or mutiple layers of finer cloth. Keep a small pot
> of
> > epoxy putty ready so that you can insert it in areas that are
> thin,
> > or where there is a hole you need to fill, but didn't see, or a
> small
> > roughness on the wood the tape won't lie flat on. Try to do the
> > whole interior in one wet, it is much easier.
> >
Thanks for the pointers, Proaconstrictor.

You don't mention interior fillets. Do you omit them? In previous,
not-so-instant boats I've done the interior tape and fillets in one
pass and then epoxied the the interior panels between the tape. Any
reason to not do it that way?

Kellan


> If you have puttied the seams, I would run a few drywall screws
with
> protective plywood washers through the planking into the frames.
With
> the putty in the seams, your boat should be ready for the removal
of
> any nails. Generaly my preference at this point is to do the
inside
> of the boat next, not glass the outside. With the inside done
first,
> you can more agressively grind the chines for more rounded
corners.
> The epoxy in the seams is usualy more than enough to hold the boat
> together for roll over. If you feel you can turn over the boat
then
> do that, and roller on several coats of epoxy (if you intend to),
> don't worry about them drying, just one coat over the other. It
> works. Cove as much as you can work on at once (a full seam, or
the
> whole boat, though currently my epoxy is going up in smoke almost
> before it hits the wood, due to heat), and imediately wet out your
> glass tape into the coves, use a brush to epoxy the glass,At
points
> where the seams run into something like the transom, scissor round
> the ends of the tape, and leave them short, do the same at the
> straight runs on the transom, then connect those runs with circles
of
> 10 oz cloth, or mutiple layers of finer cloth. Keep a small pot
of
> epoxy putty ready so that you can insert it in areas that are
thin,
> or where there is a hole you need to fill, but didn't see, or a
small
> roughness on the wood the tape won't lie flat on. Try to do the
> whole interior in one wet, it is much easier.
>
> Once all the seams are coved and or taped, you can pull the
drywall
> screws, nothing will move from this point on.
>
> Similar on the outside, but the putty is only necesary for
filler.
> Round the chines as much as you can, and lay the cloth into any
putty
> before it sets. If you are using supplemental tape, you can put
it
> under or over the cloth, I have done both over the years.
Generaly I
> avoid grinding by putting supplemental tape over the cloth. This
> approach also allows you to do the whole glassing in one go. But
> that probably isn't realistic for your first outing.
>
> Can someone recommend the best way to proceed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kellan

If you have puttied the seams, I would run a few drywall screws with
protective plywood washers through the planking into the frames. With
the putty in the seams, your boat should be ready for the removal of
any nails. Generaly my preference at this point is to do the inside
of the boat next, not glass the outside. With the inside done first,
you can more agressively grind the chines for more rounded corners.
The epoxy in the seams is usualy more than enough to hold the boat
together for roll over. If you feel you can turn over the boat then
do that, and roller on several coats of epoxy (if you intend to),
don't worry about them drying, just one coat over the other. It
works. Cove as much as you can work on at once (a full seam, or the
whole boat, though currently my epoxy is going up in smoke almost
before it hits the wood, due to heat), and imediately wet out your
glass tape into the coves, use a brush to epoxy the glass,At points
where the seams run into something like the transom, scissor round
the ends of the tape, and leave them short, do the same at the
straight runs on the transom, then connect those runs with circles of
10 oz cloth, or mutiple layers of finer cloth. Keep a small pot of
epoxy putty ready so that you can insert it in areas that are thin,
or where there is a hole you need to fill, but didn't see, or a small
roughness on the wood the tape won't lie flat on. Try to do the
whole interior in one wet, it is much easier.

Once all the seams are coved and or taped, you can pull the drywall
screws, nothing will move from this point on.

Similar on the outside, but the putty is only necesary for filler.
Round the chines as much as you can, and lay the cloth into any putty
before it sets. If you are using supplemental tape, you can put it
under or over the cloth, I have done both over the years. Generaly I
avoid grinding by putting supplemental tape over the cloth. This
approach also allows you to do the whole glassing in one go. But
that probably isn't realistic for your first outing.
Kellan,

If your plans don't show it, most other T&G plans either have solid wood frame edges or
ask you to tape in the frames. I have also just glued them in during the set up assembly.
Mark

dagon_gsl wrote:
> It
> seems obvious that they should come out before the glass goes on,
> but then the boat is no longer attached to the frames.
>
> Can someone recommend the best way to proceed?
Hi,

I've just finished puttying and taping the seams on my Cartopper and
as soon as I've done a bit more sanding I'll be ready to lay on the
fiberglass sheathing.

I'm confused as to when I should pull out the wire (tack) nails. It
seems obvious that they should come out before the glass goes on,
but then the boat is no longer attached to the frames. It seems
like it should hold its shape well enough, but it will also be very
wobbly. On the other hand, since they're headless nails, I should
have little difficulty pulling them through from the inside once the
frames are taped into place, as long as they're set well enough to
not interfere with the fiberglass.

Can someone recommend the best way to proceed?

Thanks,

Kellan
When I was a kid, I seem to recall we would lose 6 or 8 mph off the
top speed of our runabout, and I think most of it was fouling,
althouth it's possible we beat up the prop a little bit. Every
property owner on that island who had more than a canoe had some kind
of planing craft, even though the trip was only a mile or so. And that
was back when the property itself was cheap, so not everyone had money
to burn. Of course there really weren't a lot of displacement hull
motorboats available at the time, and I don't think there are now.
Should have had Bolger come in and straighten them all out. I guess it
shows the power of marketing.

Someone nearby did have a platform boat built on two canoes. Someone
else had an old powered dory on its last legs, but not on the island.
--- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
snip
> I think you may be overly sanguine about the absence of marine
growth in
> fresh water. snip
Neat--I think this may be my answer. Thanks, John,
and all the others who have commented. Sam
--- announcer97624 <announcer97624@...> wrote:
>
> Sam, I know of boat rentals that keep the power
> units in the water
> for months maybe even years as long as rentals don't
> get slow. I went
> looking at the Minkota catalog and they now carry
> main drive motors
> with 130lbs of thrust probably still would not be
> real fast but it
> might yank the dock off its mountings if they forgot
> to untie.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks--he glen-l rig for an electic motor looks
> neat.
> > The pond where I will use her is fresh (no marine
> > growth) and I plan to keep her in for weeks at a
> tim> Do you have
> anyknowlege of how the lower unit would
> > hold up to being submerged like that? Sam
>
>
>


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In a message dated 7/24/02 8:43:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
glasscocklanding@...writes:


> Thanks--he glen-l rig for an electic motor looks neat.
> The pond where I will use her is fresh (no marine
> growth) and I plan to keep her in for weeks at a time.
>

I think you may be overly sanguine about the absence of marine growth in
fresh water. When I fixed my mother up with a boat this year, my limited
budget and her need for a motor with electric start forced me to purchase an
outboard far too heavy for her to tip up and down. Although the boat is
stored on a lift, the nether parts of the long-shaft lower unit do not come
completely out of the water. Thanks to an very expensive sewage system
installed around the chain of lakes she's on, the lake is pretty clean and
clear. (Much cleaner and clearer than it was 30 years ago, when individual
septic tanks were used - the loon population seems to have been one of the
benificiaries.) Nevertheless, each weekend finds me using a nylon-mesh
covered sponge to clean off growth on the immersed parts. This consists
mainly of little hemispheric opalescent blobs of something. I have no idea
what they might mature into if left undisturbed. I think with the Glen-L rig
you may want to put some kind of anti-fouling paint on the lower unit.

The other potential problems are corrosion and water infiltration into the
lower unit. I don't have a clue here. Standard operating procedure in my
parents' neck of the woods is to keep lower units out of the water when not
in use, either by tilting them or hoisting them clear of the water. So, by
leaving the lower unit in the water, I'm conducting a sort of uncontrolled
experiment. Given the age of the outboard, the results will be only of
anecdotal interest. Given the age of the operator, the sacrifice of the lower
unit to operational requirements would be a very small one, so I'm not overly
concerned about how this treatment will affect the unit's longevity.

Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sam, I know of boat rentals that keep the power units in the water
for months maybe even years as long as rentals don't get slow. I went
looking at the Minkota catalog and they now carry main drive motors
with 130lbs of thrust probably still would not be real fast but it
might yank the dock off its mountings if they forgot to untie.

John









--- In bolger@y..., Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...> wrote:
> Thanks--he glen-l rig for an electic motor looks neat.
> The pond where I will use her is fresh (no marine
> growth) and I plan to keep her in for weeks at a tim> Do you have
anyknowlege of how the lower unit would
> hold up to being submerged like that? Sam
Thanks--he glen-l rig for an electic motor looks neat.
The pond where I will use her is fresh (no marine
growth) and I plan to keep her in for weeks at a time.
Do you have anyknowlege of how the lower unit would
hold up to being submerged like that? Sam
--- announcer97624 <announcer97624@...> wrote:
> My solution was finding a powerful Minkota electric
> trolling motor
> and using two high quality marine batteries and then
> my small Honda
> Generator with a high amp separate DC 12 volt
> outlet. The Honda is
> quiet and the Minkota can use different props to
> adjust the top speed
> slightly higher, it still won't plane the hull. I
> want to build a
> stitch and glue Kayak and install this system. I can
> paddle by the
> local park like super man. Check out the links. I


__________________________________________________
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Here are a couple of steam links, 15' is probably a little small

http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/12stmng.htm

http://www.pioneer.net/~carlich/

Try John's immense Mother of all maritime links site at

http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html

and go to the Steam and old power section.

HJ


Sam Glasscock wrote:
>
> This is off topic, but I would like to impose on
> the group because of the great range of experience
> here. I have an old lapstrake launch, 15', that I
> want to repower with an inboard for displacement
> speed, for the fun of it, not because it makes sense.
> I am considering gas, steam and electric. Does anyone
> have a source for steam engines or exerience with
> them? How about the atomic four (I know, way more
> engine than I need) or the Lunenburg Atlantic
> make-and-break engine? Any help, as always,
> appreciated. Sam
>
> _
Steam is heavy for the size boat you talking about. They have a
steamboat meet every year at Klamath Lake where I live. Steam
engines professionally made are very expensive then you also have the
boilers that need ultrasound testing each year. Many steamers are
using air or refrigeration compressors that work very well and cost
little to convert. Most steam boats fire their boilers with stove oil
instead of wood because of the storage problems. Steam boats are
nostalgic but when they are of the smaller variety there is no
getting away from the repressive heat.

My solution was finding a powerful Minkota electric trolling motor
and using two high quality marine batteries and then my small Honda
Generator with a high amp separate DC 12 volt outlet. The Honda is
quiet and the Minkota can use different props to adjust the top speed
slightly higher, it still won't plane the hull. I want to build a
stitch and glue Kayak and install this system. I can paddle by the
local park like super man. Check out the links. I also have a solar
charger that will run my Igloo electric cooler and switch to recharge
my batteries if needed. It takes about four hours to charge my
batteries with the solar unit.

Your 15' boat would do well with a hybrid power system. they are
cool running and can be completely silent for long periods. I had the
Generator already for my business. I found the electric motor on sale
for half price at a fall clearance sale and the solar charger was a
sale item also that cost just under $100.00. I'll promise that any
steam project will hit your wallet with a very solid impact.

About the only steam project I would tackle now is a new industries
that can be adapted for home use. They have a boiler and fire box
system that burns shredded rubber tires and with this new technology
there is no hazardous by products being emitted not even a whisper of
smoke. the boiler runs a steam turbine that generates electricity.
You have to pay to have your tires removed now and if a person did it
right he could charge for taking the tires and also charge for the
electricity. Sorry about going off topic so far. With a system like
that I could afford to buy all the bolger plans and build each one.

http://www.glenl.com/designs/special/etm.html
http://smaalders.net/~barts/engine.html


--- In bolger@y..., Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...> wrote:
> This is off topic, but I would like to impose on
> the group because of the great range of experience
> here. I have an old lapstrake launch, 15', that I
> want to repower with an inboard for displacement
> speed, for the fun of it, not because it makes sense.
> I am considering gas, steam and electric. Does anyone
> have a source for steam engines or exerience with
> them? How about the atomic four (I know, way more
> engine than I need) or the Lunenburg Atlantic
> make-and-break engine? Any help, as always,
> appreciated. Sam
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Sam Glasscock wrote:
> the group because of the great range of experience here. I have an
> old lapstrake launch, 15', that I want to repower with an inboard for
> displacement speed, for the fun of it, not because it makes sense. I
> am considering gas, steam and electric. Does anyone have a source for
> steam engines or exerience with them? How about the atomic four (I
> know, way more engine than I need) or the Lunenburg Atlantic
> make-and-break engine? Any help, as always, appreciated. Sam

Of all, the make-and-break is your best choice, I think. Steam is only
for those who want to play with engines the whole time. They are
expensive, heavy, and tweaky. And, often, messy. They are for engine
enthusiasts more than mere boaters.

I like electric as an option, but those batteries are heavy, and they need
some serious attention for recharging. Solar will not do it.

OTOH, the make-and-break is a throaty, low, traditional engine that is
intended for the use you describe. It will not, however, be easy an
inexpensive. It might be easy, if you have the $$$'s, and if you want to
get a used one, you'll have to pay for it.
This is off topic, but I would like to impose on
the group because of the great range of experience
here. I have an old lapstrake launch, 15', that I
want to repower with an inboard for displacement
speed, for the fun of it, not because it makes sense.
I am considering gas, steam and electric. Does anyone
have a source for steam engines or exerience with
them? How about the atomic four (I know, way more
engine than I need) or the Lunenburg Atlantic
make-and-break engine? Any help, as always,
appreciated. Sam

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
FBBB --

It's amazing to me how much easier it is to do something the second
or third time.

I've glued the aft section in place (weighted with my motley
assortment of bricks and rocks.) When Sue and I laid out the bottom
panels for Gullapalooza it was a comedy of measuring, remeasuring and
nervous double-checking. This time I just lined everything out and
cut it to nearly perfect fit. I may be a boat builder yet.

Sue and I buttblocked the bottom panel before putting gluing it in
place. On this third Gull rather than wrestle the 12' piece into
position solo, I'll put the buttblock in after two sections are
firmly in place. I did this with the Teal and the Scooner and it
didn't work too badly.

Weather's due to be poor for the next few days, so I don't think
there will be any glassing for a few days. Maybe I can scare up a
clear 16' 2x4 for the gunnel between now and then.

YIBB,

David



C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I'm not sure Payson or Bolger would approve of either my building
techniques (luan, minimal framing, etc.) or my usage (surfing in on
waist-waves with a boat load of fluke.)

If "Toby" was anything other than my personal boat, I'd have built
him heavier -- 1/4" AC topsides, 1/2" bottom, full framing, etc. But
there are some real advantages to the light weight, as long as you're
willing to live with the limitations and liabilities. Surely if my
Teal had been build as light it would have been destroyed by now.

YIBB,

David

>The sidebar in Payson's book describes building the Gull using 8'
>sheets of plywood and other money saving techniques. I believe he
>said that the butt block (strap) in this case would lie forward of
>the center seat. However, I think he also mentioned using 1/2" ply
>for the bottom.
>
>For my Gull, I plan on using 1/4" ply and would like to see the butt
>strap lie in the back section of the boat so there is more support
>for me to stand on. Then again, I may use 3/8" for the bottom just to
>be safe.
>
>What kind of plywood are you using?
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> FBBB --
>>
>> I got the transom glued in place and tomorrow I'll put the bottom
>on.
>> On "Toby" I put the buttblock in the aft section, right about where
>> my heals hit. I've no complaints about that location, but can
>anyone
>> think of any reason I might want to put the joint in the forward
>part
>> of the boat?
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> Mobile (646) 325-8325
>> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
David,

The sidebar in Payson's book describes building the Gull using 8'
sheets of plywood and other money saving techniques. I believe he
said that the butt block (strap) in this case would lie forward of
the center seat. However, I think he also mentioned using 1/2" ply
for the bottom.

For my Gull, I plan on using 1/4" ply and would like to see the butt
strap lie in the back section of the boat so there is more support
for me to stand on. Then again, I may use 3/8" for the bottom just to
be safe.

What kind of plywood are you using?

Tom














--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I got the transom glued in place and tomorrow I'll put the bottom
on.
> On "Toby" I put the buttblock in the aft section, right about where
> my heals hit. I've no complaints about that location, but can
anyone
> think of any reason I might want to put the joint in the forward
part
> of the boat?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Another Gull


> FBBB --
>
> I got the transom glued in place and tomorrow I'll put the bottom on.
> On "Toby" I put the buttblock in the aft section, right about where
> my heals hit. I've no complaints about that location, but can anyone
> think of any reason I might want to put the joint in the forward part
> of the boat?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
FBBB --

I got the transom glued in place and tomorrow I'll put the bottom on.
On "Toby" I put the buttblock in the aft section, right about where
my heals hit. I've no complaints about that location, but can anyone
think of any reason I might want to put the joint in the forward part
of the boat?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
>David
>
>I like the demonstration of high class expensive boatbuilding tools
>shown in the transom construction. I favor the bricks myself, more
>concentrated weight.
>

Sue and I both thought a nice collection of little lead pigs would be
just the think for weighting the bottom of the Gull when it's glued
into place. We settled for rocks, bricks and cinder blocks:

http://www.crumblingempire.com/gullapalooza/weightingbottom.jpg

Lead pigs would keep the weight concentrated where it can do some
good, and look more profeshcinal too.

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
David

I like the demonstration of high class expensive boatbuilding tools
shown in the transom construction. I favor the bricks myself, more
concentrated weight.

HJ
>
> Construction photos at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/AnotherGull
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
FBBB --

Sue and I had a set of topsides leftover from Gullapalooza, and I'm
finally getting around to putting them into a boat. This Gull will be
for my wife, who's been enjoying rowing "Toby" in the lake. I'll have
to see what sort of green Benjamin Moore Porch paint comes in (to
match her eyes.)

Right now I've got the bow setting up with a wire at the top and a
wire at the bottom and a few Scotch tape straps in between. I thick
batch of epoxy/colloidal silica is running down the seam.

The transom is from a some leftover luan and mahogany from
Gullapalooza. I wouldn't use mahogany for the gunnels again, but I
think it will be fine as glue/screw clamps for the stern-topsides
interface. I'm thinking I might do a stripped overlay on the transom
and finish it bright.

Unlike the first round, there are no frames inside the boat. I'll
glue and glass on the jig, and cut frames to fit and butter them into
place. I'll also probably put in all the seats shown on the plan and
back them up with foam (my wife is from Flatbush and still not very
comfortable in the water.)

Construction photos at:

http://www.crumblingempire.com/AnotherGull

YIBB,

David

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http://www.crumblingempire.com
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