Re: Which Plane should I buy? Nymph or Cartopper?
--- In bolger@y..., "Michael Galvin" <michaelgalvin@a...> wrote:
for sailing and as a tender (because it isn't tender/tippy). It
seems as good for rowing, but I would have to imagine that in a race
the Nymph would pull away.
I have used Nymphs both with the long seat and regular seats, and I
feel that the long seat, which is an excellent idea, is tough in the
Nymph since as designed you are either stepping in high or off-
center, which is a worse in the Nymph than the EP.
> Stephentippy to
>
> I have built a Nymph. It's wonderful to row but in my opinion too
> sail in a relaxed manner. I have some pictures on my web siteI've built both, and I think the Elegant Punt is a better boat, both
>http://home.attbi.com/~michaelgalvin
>
> I love my Nymph as a tender, though.
>
> Mike Galvin
>
for sailing and as a tender (because it isn't tender/tippy). It
seems as good for rowing, but I would have to imagine that in a race
the Nymph would pull away.
I have used Nymphs both with the long seat and regular seats, and I
feel that the long seat, which is an excellent idea, is tough in the
Nymph since as designed you are either stepping in high or off-
center, which is a worse in the Nymph than the EP.
Stephen
I have built a Nymph. It's wonderful to row but in my opinion too tippy to
sail in a relaxed manner. I have some pictures on my web site
http://home.attbi.com/~michaelgalvin
I love my Nymph as a tender, though.
Mike Galvin
=======================================================================
Also, does any one have any advice on whether I should build a Nymph
or a cartopper. I want to have a boat I don't have to use a trailer
for. I like both but I'm afraid the Nymph may be too small. I want
to sail and row. Does anyone have experience sailing either of these?
Thanks!
Stephen
I have built a Nymph. It's wonderful to row but in my opinion too tippy to
sail in a relaxed manner. I have some pictures on my web site
http://home.attbi.com/~michaelgalvin
I love my Nymph as a tender, though.
Mike Galvin
=======================================================================
Also, does any one have any advice on whether I should build a Nymph
or a cartopper. I want to have a boat I don't have to use a trailer
for. I like both but I'm afraid the Nymph may be too small. I want
to sail and row. Does anyone have experience sailing either of these?
Thanks!
Stephen
>the smooth
>
> > Those Indian planes from harbor Freight look like a deal. Does
> > plane have an adjustable frog?The best deal I have seen are some of the antique places that sell
>
Records with freshly milled soles. You get a real tool with the
major set-up issue dealt with.
If I was going cheap, I would get a top quality blade and install it
in a wooden plane. It is about a 45 minute job, once you know the
steps. You get a largely better plane. Metal planes arrived during
the machine age, at a time when everything by hand was already on the
decline. I don't so much see them as the pinacle of a particular
design, as on the downslope. But a good one will work fine too.
Generaly you should spend about the same on the blade as the plane.
That is rarely the case with metal planes. Think of it as buying a
chisel or an axe, the handle is the least of it.
jhkohnen@...wrote:
Master Shipwright, from the first half of the last century. He could
build a 90 footer with out using a power tool. ALL his tools were sharp
beyond belief and he kept them that way apparently with out effort. He
would always bring home fellow workers tools to sharpen them. I had not
acquired an interest in building things before he died, and didn't pay
any attention to what he was doing.
Now decades later when I try sharpening that fantastic Swedish steel
using his old stones, the results are not good, and using planes and
chisels with less then perfect blades has been frustrating. When we
started the Klondike boat, we needed the tools working properly, and I
remembered an article I read somewhere. I fired up the stationary belt
sander and put a hollow grind on the edge using the belt where it comes
around the roller. Not only did this put a hollow grind, it made for a
straight edge, because the roller is straight. This had defeated me in
the past going back and forth on a grinding wheel.
I then finished off with some diamond stones I had and the results were
great. It was quick, easy and probably about 94% of being perfect. The
most amazing thing is how often the planes get grabbed when they are
sharp. Tasks that had previously brought out a saw, file, sander or
grinder now get done faster and better with a plane.
I guess the neatest thing is watching my 17 year old son use his
grandfathers spar plane on a 10 ft length of spruce, 8 siding 16 siding
it and then rounding it for no other reason then it is fun, making those
10 ft shavings curl out while the plane sings its song.
>The reason it is secret is it reveals a personnel lack. My father was a
> Can you share the secret of your sharpening technique, Harry? We won't tell
> anybody. <g>
Master Shipwright, from the first half of the last century. He could
build a 90 footer with out using a power tool. ALL his tools were sharp
beyond belief and he kept them that way apparently with out effort. He
would always bring home fellow workers tools to sharpen them. I had not
acquired an interest in building things before he died, and didn't pay
any attention to what he was doing.
Now decades later when I try sharpening that fantastic Swedish steel
using his old stones, the results are not good, and using planes and
chisels with less then perfect blades has been frustrating. When we
started the Klondike boat, we needed the tools working properly, and I
remembered an article I read somewhere. I fired up the stationary belt
sander and put a hollow grind on the edge using the belt where it comes
around the roller. Not only did this put a hollow grind, it made for a
straight edge, because the roller is straight. This had defeated me in
the past going back and forth on a grinding wheel.
I then finished off with some diamond stones I had and the results were
great. It was quick, easy and probably about 94% of being perfect. The
most amazing thing is how often the planes get grabbed when they are
sharp. Tasks that had previously brought out a saw, file, sander or
grinder now get done faster and better with a plane.
I guess the neatest thing is watching my 17 year old son use his
grandfathers spar plane on a 10 ft length of spruce, 8 siding 16 siding
it and then rounding it for no other reason then it is fun, making those
10 ft shavings curl out while the plane sings its song.
> Those Indian planes from harbor Freight look like a deal. Does the smoothIt is identical to the Record, except the blade is thinner.
> plane have an adjustable frog?
> On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:28:26 -0800, Harry W. James wrote:
> > Here is a cheap plane
> >
> >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37720
> >
> > If you have problems with the URL wrapping go to
> >
> >http://www.harborfreight.com/
> >
> > and input item
> >
> > 37720-0VGA
> >
> > This is a cheap 2 plane set from Harbor Freight $9.99 for a 9" bench
> > plane and a little 4" block plane.
> > ...
> > It did take a bit of playing with to get it to work right, but once I
> > got it sharpened using my new secret technique, it was a real producer.
>
Can you share the secret of your sharpening technique, Harry? We won't tell
anybody. <g>
Those Indian planes from harbor Freight look like a deal. Does the smooth
plane have an adjustable frog?
anybody. <g>
Those Indian planes from harbor Freight look like a deal. Does the smooth
plane have an adjustable frog?
On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:28:26 -0800, Harry W. James wrote:
> Here is a cheap plane
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37720
>
> If you have problems with the URL wrapping go to
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/
>
> and input item
>
> 37720-0VGA
>
> This is a cheap 2 plane set from Harbor Freight $9.99 for a 9" bench
> plane and a little 4" block plane.
> ...
> It did take a bit of playing with to get it to work right, but once I
> got it sharpened using my new secret technique, it was a real producer.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself
into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance
of being drowned... A man in jail has more room, better food, and
commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
Hi Stephen
Nymph sails, but Cartopper would be better. Our Nymph's longtitudinal
'thwart' works well for rowing, but can be frustrating when sailing.
Planes; It is true, you can build this sort of boat without a plane. I'm
really lucky and have access to most of the alternatives (sanders, grinders,
rasps, W.H.Y.) That said, the one tool I use more than any other is my block
plane.
It isn't necessary to spend a huge amount of money on a good plane, but
cheap ones are a frustration rather than a help. Some 'cheapies' can be set
up to work well, but if your time is worth money it may be worth springing
for a better made item in the first place. There's a bit to learn about how
to tune a plane, but none of it is rocket science, and the end result is
wholesome, soul restoring stuff.
If you have access to a library, I would strongley recommend Leonard Lee's
book on "How to sharpen just about everything" - fascinating stuff.
You don't need a low angle plane - standard planes can be sharpened with
back bevel to do the same job. I'll stick my neck out and recommend that if
you get one and only one plane, you look for the standard Record 9 1/2 block
plane (NOT the low angle one). Lie Neilsen or Lee Valley would be better,
but at twice the cost.
Cheers
Derek
Nymph sails, but Cartopper would be better. Our Nymph's longtitudinal
'thwart' works well for rowing, but can be frustrating when sailing.
Planes; It is true, you can build this sort of boat without a plane. I'm
really lucky and have access to most of the alternatives (sanders, grinders,
rasps, W.H.Y.) That said, the one tool I use more than any other is my block
plane.
It isn't necessary to spend a huge amount of money on a good plane, but
cheap ones are a frustration rather than a help. Some 'cheapies' can be set
up to work well, but if your time is worth money it may be worth springing
for a better made item in the first place. There's a bit to learn about how
to tune a plane, but none of it is rocket science, and the end result is
wholesome, soul restoring stuff.
If you have access to a library, I would strongley recommend Leonard Lee's
book on "How to sharpen just about everything" - fascinating stuff.
You don't need a low angle plane - standard planes can be sharpened with
back bevel to do the same job. I'll stick my neck out and recommend that if
you get one and only one plane, you look for the standard Record 9 1/2 block
plane (NOT the low angle one). Lie Neilsen or Lee Valley would be better,
but at twice the cost.
Cheers
Derek
--- In bolger@y..., "Roger S" <roger99a@h...> wrote:
coverage in mags and so forth about fine set planes. A recent series
of article in wooden boat covered fine plane use using Lie Nielsen
planes, like their jointer. All fine and good, but in the boatshop,
you want wooden planes that can take a fine or coarse cut, and don't
wear you out with weight or friction.
Coarse planes are very fast, and certainly remove material faster
than a belt sander, are lighter, cheaper to run, you can hear the
radio over then. Also belt sanders are fairly unlimited in their
cutting geometry, which is great when you want it (the abilty to
switch them on, leave them in the same place, and watch them go to
China). But this isn't the most efficient way to feel a fair line.
With a plane, I can follow a curve, or create a straight edge,
without looking, because the cut follows the sole.
With a power sander, all I have at stake generaly is a few cents of
paper. And you can get real handy with them also. If there are
fasteners in the area, that might chip a blade, I'll pick up my disc
sander.
>can't do.
> I've built 4 boats without a plane. There's nothing a belt sander
>That doesn't mean it does all things well. There has been a lot of
> Roger S
>
>
coverage in mags and so forth about fine set planes. A recent series
of article in wooden boat covered fine plane use using Lie Nielsen
planes, like their jointer. All fine and good, but in the boatshop,
you want wooden planes that can take a fine or coarse cut, and don't
wear you out with weight or friction.
Coarse planes are very fast, and certainly remove material faster
than a belt sander, are lighter, cheaper to run, you can hear the
radio over then. Also belt sanders are fairly unlimited in their
cutting geometry, which is great when you want it (the abilty to
switch them on, leave them in the same place, and watch them go to
China). But this isn't the most efficient way to feel a fair line.
With a plane, I can follow a curve, or create a straight edge,
without looking, because the cut follows the sole.
With a power sander, all I have at stake generaly is a few cents of
paper. And you can get real handy with them also. If there are
fasteners in the area, that might chip a blade, I'll pick up my disc
sander.
I've built 4 boats without a plane. There's nothing a belt sander can't do.
Roger S
Roger S
> Stephen, you don't need a plane for a Nymph, and I suspect a01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> Cartopper can be dug out of a small pile of plywood without one also.
>
> If you want one, that's a different story. I never could figure out
> how to sharpen one or get it to slice off nice thin layers of plywood
> or end grain anything. Get a Makita power plane and you'll have a
> ball generating knee deep shavings in no time. Be sure to count your
> fingers after every use.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Here is a cheap plane
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37720
If you have problems with the URL wrapping go to
http://www.harborfreight.com/
and input item
37720-0VGA
This is a cheap 2 plane set from Harbor Freight $9.99 for a 9" bench
plane and a little 4" block plane. Normally I am a proponent of the
"spend money for tools" faction but a year or so I saw this deal and
couldn't pass it up. My thought was I could by a good blade for it and I
would have a cheap more or less all right plane. They never saw any
action until the Klondike boat building project this summer. Fritz
brought his Record bench plane to the shop and the Harbor freight one is
an identical knock off, made in India, only the blade is thinner. Once I
got it sharpened, it became the only plane Mary Ann Parke used on the
boat. She did almost all the edge planning, stem trimming chine fairing
that was done and she left an impressive pile of shavings behind her
every day. Fritz took his Record back home.
It did take a bit of playing with to get it to work right, but once I
got it sharpened using my new secret technique, it was a real producer.
HJ
smshatz wrote:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37720
If you have problems with the URL wrapping go to
http://www.harborfreight.com/
and input item
37720-0VGA
This is a cheap 2 plane set from Harbor Freight $9.99 for a 9" bench
plane and a little 4" block plane. Normally I am a proponent of the
"spend money for tools" faction but a year or so I saw this deal and
couldn't pass it up. My thought was I could by a good blade for it and I
would have a cheap more or less all right plane. They never saw any
action until the Klondike boat building project this summer. Fritz
brought his Record bench plane to the shop and the Harbor freight one is
an identical knock off, made in India, only the blade is thinner. Once I
got it sharpened, it became the only plane Mary Ann Parke used on the
boat. She did almost all the edge planning, stem trimming chine fairing
that was done and she left an impressive pile of shavings behind her
every day. Fritz took his Record back home.
It did take a bit of playing with to get it to work right, but once I
got it sharpened using my new secret technique, it was a real producer.
HJ
smshatz wrote:
>
> I've starting to get my tools together to build a boat (probably a
> Nymph) and thought a plane would be a good tool to have.
>
> I've seen a Stanley plane which would seem to fit the bill. I also
> need to decide if I want a block plane or a low angle plane (or are
> they both considered to be block planes?). Cost is also a
> consideration. Any advice?
>
Stephen, you don't need a plane for a Nymph, and I suspect a
Cartopper can be dug out of a small pile of plywood without one also.
If you want one, that's a different story. I never could figure out
how to sharpen one or get it to slice off nice thin layers of plywood
or end grain anything. Get a Makita power plane and you'll have a
ball generating knee deep shavings in no time. Be sure to count your
fingers after every use.
Cartopper can be dug out of a small pile of plywood without one also.
If you want one, that's a different story. I never could figure out
how to sharpen one or get it to slice off nice thin layers of plywood
or end grain anything. Get a Makita power plane and you'll have a
ball generating knee deep shavings in no time. Be sure to count your
fingers after every use.
If you're absolutely sure we can't convince you to build a Super
Brick instead I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.
I love the way my Nymph tows and rows. It makes a great tender. But I
suspect that except for it's lighter weight, a Cartopper would be
superior in every way as a car top boat. With it's greater length
it'll row and sail faster. It's designed for a motor and will do a
lot better with one, Oh Nymph CAN use one, but it'd have to be tiny.
Nymph CAN take two good sized (read fat) adults, but it's a tight fit
and not recommended in any kind of a chop unless the water is
tropical and you're mentally ready for a swim.
For your intended use, IMHO Cartopper wins hands down. Serious
competition could come from a Pointy Skiff or June Bug, but not a
Nymph.
Brick instead I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.
I love the way my Nymph tows and rows. It makes a great tender. But I
suspect that except for it's lighter weight, a Cartopper would be
superior in every way as a car top boat. With it's greater length
it'll row and sail faster. It's designed for a motor and will do a
lot better with one, Oh Nymph CAN use one, but it'd have to be tiny.
Nymph CAN take two good sized (read fat) adults, but it's a tight fit
and not recommended in any kind of a chop unless the water is
tropical and you're mentally ready for a swim.
For your intended use, IMHO Cartopper wins hands down. Serious
competition could come from a Pointy Skiff or June Bug, but not a
Nymph.
I've starting to get my tools together to build a boat (probably a
Nymph) and thought a plane would be a good tool to have.
I've seen a Stanley plane which would seem to fit the bill. I also
need to decide if I want a block plane or a low angle plane (or are
they both considered to be block planes?). Cost is also a
consideration. Any advice?
Also, does any one have any advice on whether I should build a Nymph
or a cartopper. I want to have a boat I don't have to use a trailer
for. I like both but I'm afraid the Nymph may be too small. I want
to sail and row. Does anyone have experience sailing either of these?
Thanks!
Stephen
Nymph) and thought a plane would be a good tool to have.
I've seen a Stanley plane which would seem to fit the bill. I also
need to decide if I want a block plane or a low angle plane (or are
they both considered to be block planes?). Cost is also a
consideration. Any advice?
Also, does any one have any advice on whether I should build a Nymph
or a cartopper. I want to have a boat I don't have to use a trailer
for. I like both but I'm afraid the Nymph may be too small. I want
to sail and row. Does anyone have experience sailing either of these?
Thanks!
Stephen