Re: Champlain messabout 2002 - Counter measures

What coffee lounge?

>
> Should this discussion get tossed into the coffee lounge?
>
> David Romasco
>

I started it that's always a bad sign...

--- In bolger@y..., Frank Bales <frank_bales@y...> wrote:

>
> Wouldn't they need a search warrant and probable cause to get one?
>
>

I'm not suggesting there was anything wrong about this search. I
can't recall the actual issue, but it may have involved something
that looked like a failure to report upon re-entering. Presumably
both sides ment well. That boat is about the equivalent of a wyo
170' long, when you look at the fit and finish of the three hulls and
the beams.

Anyway I'm going to try to tone down the apocalyptic nature of my
last few posts. I worry less about these issues than comes accross
in my meanderings.

message have been removed]

THere may be a way to mitigate this by the way we build our boats. We
could build in Lexan panels or inspection ports here and there. Maybe
with copies of US constitution X'ed out pasted inside. Anyway, it's a
real consideration and maybe until we get the authorities under
control we should avoid large cored areas and sealed off spaces with
no access. Yuck! I hope this response is relevant enough to boat
building to be on this list.

--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> > Should this discussion get tossed into the coffee lounge?
>
> Yes. Not the discussion about the messabout, just the INS or customs
> discussion.

> Should this discussion get tossed into the coffee lounge?

Yes. Not the discussion about the messabout, just the INS or customs
discussion.

It is my understanding that there are very few limitations on the
Coast Guard when it comes to search.

We had a CG spokesman come to our yacht club to talk about safety and
whatever, and he was asked about this issue. He said that a major
intrusive search was usually triggered by information from an
informant, and of course, drug informants are usually not to be
trusted. And the CG could apply the information to the wrong boat.

Any number of things could have happened in the case cited. Perhaps
his long tack out to sea brought him near an off-shore drug delivery
boat. I think everyone believes that the gov't ducks responsibility
for its errors in cases like that.

PHV

No. A boat isn't for practical purposes, considered a domicile. My
experiences with the USCG indicate that they have full board-and-search
authority, and I have seen boats destroyed by searching. My
recollection is that the owner could file for compensation (if the
search was unsuccessful...), but that it then entered a long drawn-out
bureacratic process that usually ended paying less than total
constructive loss. Moral of the story (IMHO): stay clean and hope for
the best....

Should this discussion get tossed into the coffee lounge?

David Romasco

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Bales [mailto:frank_bales@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:07 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Champlain messabout 2002 - Counter measures

Wouldn't they need a search warrant and probable cause to get one?

boatbuilding@...wrote:> drug police. They started drilling
holes all over his boat

> looking for drugs. When you think about it, there isn't
> any kind of convincing reason not to do just that. The
> thing was home made, and could have had a lot more than Q-
> cell mixed in with the several thousand pounds of epoxy.
> With

I wonder if they pay for the repairs?

jeff

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01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wouldn't they need a search warrant and probable cause to get one?

boatbuilding@...wrote:> drug police. They started drilling holes all over his boat

> looking for drugs. When you think about it, there isn't
> any kind of convincing reason not to do just that. The
> thing was home made, and could have had a lot more than Q-
> cell mixed in with the several thousand pounds of epoxy.
> With

> drug police. They started drilling holes all over his boat
> looking for drugs. When you think about it, there isn't
> any kind of convincing reason not to do just that. The
> thing was home made, and could have had a lot more than Q-
> cell mixed in with the several thousand pounds of epoxy.
> With

I wonder if they pay for the repairs?

jeff

Impressed with your dedication, showing up from that far away. Maybe
more to see next year.

--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> This years Messabout was at a great site (washrooms, picnic area,
> free camping, BBQ's that already had full propane tanks on them,
very
> useful as my knob broke in transit and my BBQ was un-servicable,
> mooring floats, lots of parking, shaded dining area, world's finest
> hot dog roast and the "Mother-of-all-Smokey-Bacon-Potato-Salads")
and
> Steve Bosquette deserves muchos KUDOS for finding it and setting it
> all up.

Concur. It is a good spot, tho one does have to look around and find
the other participants as there are several places to inadvertently
hide. If we do it here next year, let's see if we can get Darling
Boatworks to pull out more of their goodies and show them off! Maybe
Windermere can show also. The area is suitable for scenic motorized
excursions with the dramatic NY shorline and other visually appealing
areas, preferably in a boat with a swim ladder. I suspect it's not a
good idea to count on the propane as I think it belongs to the yacht
club. However, there is an alternate BBQ site under trees with
charcoal grills in place, where we also camped. Fairly good campsite
except for the sliding downhill in the night part (nylon is slippery)

>
snip
> We enjoyed meeting Lincoln and Janet again, they made paddling my
> Pirogue look easy, and neither one did an un-intentional eskimo roll
> on entry (something I'm prone to do in this obnoxiously tender
> design) so I guess it's just me who needs pravtice.
>
> I got to try his Michalak Robote (spelling?)

Only sort of a Roar 2 due to inherited measurement errors. I expect
real thing or a Robote to go even better. But I'm glad you liked it.

snip
> new set of things to concentrate on, like are the blades 90 degrees
> to the stroke or am I just making foam here).

This can develop into a real issue if the passenger notices it and the
oarsperson doesn't! Tread carefully here!

>Anyhow, I enjoyed it a
> lot. Elaine wants me to build her a dedicated rowboat now. If she
> keeps falling in love with every boat she sees how am I ever going
to
> find time (to say nothing of $$$$) to build my aircraft carrier.

Rowboats are definitely fun, and little trouble. Be glad she doesn't
want a fancy gaff catboat or something!

I am sorta thinking about the Payson Pirogue (called Canoe in Payson's
web site), so I guess I was impressed. It did seem to move well and be
relatively simple.
>snip
>Lincoln was saying
> there's a move afoot for a Messabout in Gloucester, MA which being
> Phils home base could involve an appearance by PB&F themselves. For
> that I'd drive 40 hours.

I'd go to some trouble for that, too, but I really don't think the
great man will appear. He's probably got too much to do. The
appearance and the messabout itself are extremely hypothetical at this
point, and not even my plan.
>
snip
> Bruce & Elaine Hector

Other than cost, homeland security was an issue for me in not
attending. One of my early desires was to build a CW Juniper, a
52'tri. I eventualy heard about some guy who built one in the states
and then trailered it to the coast. Went on one big tack offshore,
and then back in, only to be stopped by drug police. They started
drilling holes all over his boat looking for drugs. When you think
about it, there isn't any kind of convincing reason not to do just
that. The thing was home made, and could have had a lot more than Q-
cell mixed in with the several thousand pounds of epoxy. With
homeland security on top of the drug war, boat destruction must be
irresistable.

I used to bring a fair amount of epoxy in from the states, which is
admitedly moving in the right direction. The sight of Canadians
driving around with large bottles marked Part "A" and Part "B" is
probably specificaly and negatively addressed in whatever rules of
engagement may apply to the current conflict. Now just add a large
bag of white powder...

I wish I was joking.

This years Messabout was at a great site (washrooms, picnic area,
free camping, BBQ's that already had full propane tanks on them, very
useful as my knob broke in transit and my BBQ was un-servicable,
mooring floats, lots of parking, shaded dining area, world's finest
hot dog roast and the "Mother-of-all-Smokey-Bacon-Potato-Salads") and
Steve Bosquette deserves muchos KUDOS for finding it and setting it
all up.

No kudos of any kind to American INS or the huge crowd of hundreds of
my fellow Canadians all trying to enter at the same border point at
the same time. Cost me over an hour and made me miss a ride in
Steve's Sneakeasy (which is enough to turn me into an international
boatbuilding terrorist all by itself, if I can just get Rumsfeld out
in my Pirogue and convince him to try and standup in it, ... just
joking of course. But I've just missed hooking up with Steve and
seeing his boat twice now), Oh Well, it'll be a good excuse for
another trip tp Portland and some of that excellent, fresh seafood.

We enjoyed meeting Lincoln and Janet again, they made paddling my
Pirogue look easy, and neither one did an un-intentional eskimo roll
on entry (something I'm prone to do in this obnoxiously tender
design) so I guess it's just me who needs pravtice.

I got to try his Michalak Robote (spelling?) and it was a joy. Two
new firsts for me, first time in a boat designed strictly for rowing
(it rowed and glided between strokes like a a dream) and 1st. time
using convetional/traditional oars and open topped oar locks (a whole
new set of things to concentrate on, like are the blades 90 degrees
to the stroke or am I just making foam here). Anyhow, I enjoyed it a
lot. Elaine wants me to build her a dedicated rowboat now. If she
keeps falling in love with every boat she sees how am I ever going to
find time (to say nothing of $$$$) to build my aircraft carrier.

Anyhow, only 13 hours driving were involved, including an hour and a
half at customs south of Montreal, who once they got to me only
needed 30 seconds to clear us through despite having two boats in the
back of my truck, I guess homemade boat smuggling isn't a huge
concern.

I hope more Bolgeristas come next year, I really enjoy seeing others
peoples boats, it makes me feel so inferior in my carpentry skills
and gives me the inspiration to tackle more. Lincoln was saying
there's a move afoot for a Messabout in Gloucester, MA which being
Phils home base could involve an appearance by PB&F themselves. For
that I'd drive 40 hours.

Of course, clearing customs on the way back took only 30 seconds,
(naturally, since we were no longer in a hurry) including the non-
existent line up. We crossed at Massena/Cornwall and NO-ONE was there
except us and one bored, sleepy customs agent. Go figure.

Photos will be posted asap after developing.

Bruce & Elaine Hector

--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:

> It is a very nice place to sail, but you might want to avoid August

> I remember being becalmed quite a bit then.

One can be bacalmed just about anywhere in the N.E. U.S. in August.
I've spent many an August afternoon on the Hudson River, drifting
with the tide, bouncing to the wakes of power boats and baking in the
sun. The two days we were at Lake Champlain this weekend had some of
the best sailing breezes I've seen in a while. The whole lake seemed
litered with sailboats, all at about 20 to 30 degrees of heel,
with "bones in their teeth."

This all may have been related to the line of T-storms that went
through on Friday, and the front that was expected on Sunday
night/Monday morning. Whatever, I'd have taken the 2 great sailing
days, if I'd had my boat with me.

One thing I noticed quite a bit up there was the minimal use of
motors on the sailboats. It seemed every sailor we saw caught his
mooring under sail, even inside some of the harbors. On the Hudson,
this is frowned upon, even prohibited in some marinas. Motors were
used only on those boat tied to the dock, and even then only to get
clear of the other boats.

It is a very nice place to sail, but you might want to avoid August as
I remember being becalmed quite a bit then.

--- In bolger@y..., "willers32" <mwagner@f...> wrote:
snip
> Irene and I are building an AS-29 we hope to have launched before
> next August. We are thinking of bringing it up through the canals to
> show at next year's Messabout, if there is one. Lake Champlain looks
> like a great spot to spend a week sailing.

--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:

> From a certain point of view, the 2002 Champlain messabout was a
> little underwhelming, but I enjoyed it. High points:
>
> -Rides in Steve Bosquette's Sneakeasy, including a run near New
> York's spectacular, very steep shore. This is a fun, comfortable

boat,

> and Steve has some nice details on it that make it aesthetically
> pleasing.

We agree. We made the trip up from just outside NYC. The ride in
Steve's Sneakeasy got me thinking power boat, and that's saying
something for an old rag-bagger like me. I might build one just for
fun.

Irene and I are building an AS-29 we hope to have launched before
next August. We are thinking of bringing it up through the canals to
show at next year's Messabout, if there is one. Lake Champlain looks
like a great spot to spend a week sailing.

From a certain point of view, the 2002 Champlain messabout was a
little underwhelming, but I enjoyed it. High points:

-Rides in Steve Bosquette's Sneakeasy, including a run near New
York's spectacular, very steep shore. This is a fun, comfortable boat,
and Steve has some nice details on it that make it aesthetically
pleasing.
-Testing my new Roar 2 in rough water and solo in smooth water. More
on that later, maybe.
-Watching a Cape Cod Frosty being sailed around the harbor. Turns out
it was built to an exquisite standard by Jack Vitas, who works at
Darling's Boatworks right at Point Bay Marina.
-Examining a flawless Gloucester Gull belonging to (and I think built
by) Darling's Boatworks.
-Trying out Bruce Hector's Payson Pirogue. Handles nicely.
-Bruce Hector's accelerated barbeque and morale raising session. Very
high quality sausage. Wish customs hadn't held him up so he showed up
after we'd eaten lunch and were packing to go. Could have eaten more.
No aircraft carrier, tho.
-Watching a sloop with wooden spars and a kind of dish shaped hull
sail around. Wish they had gotten closer.

This is a beautiful area to boat in, and the campsite price was
right($0). Wonder where most of last years attendees were, but enjoyed
anyway. More complete report later.