Re: Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
Howdy
Thanks to everyone for there advice. I don't think that I'll be using
cement, but talc, wood flour and cabosil
THANKS!
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
Thanks to everyone for there advice. I don't think that I'll be using
cement, but talc, wood flour and cabosil
THANKS!
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
anything you can make airplanes, bows, fishing rods and racing yachts
out of is stiff in my book. Of course it sucks compared to wood and
carbon fiber.
> Glass is strong, but it certainly isn't stiff. If someone wantedsome
> of the advantages of a core without all of the liabilities, thenthe
> lapstrake trick is almost legit. I agree fairing the mold would beCan't argue with you aver stiffness, cause it's relative. But
> awful.
anything you can make airplanes, bows, fishing rods and racing yachts
out of is stiff in my book. Of course it sucks compared to wood and
carbon fiber.
Glass is strong, but it certainly isn't stiff. If someone wanted some
of the advantages of a core without all of the liabilities, then the
lapstrake trick is almost legit. I agree fairing the mold would be
awful.
of the advantages of a core without all of the liabilities, then the
lapstrake trick is almost legit. I agree fairing the mold would be
awful.
--- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> > Actually, I think even tho it is "fake", the lapstrake thing will
> add
> > some stiffness to an inherently floppy material, so there is a
> LITTLE
> > excuse. Of course there is probably a more optimal "corrugation"
> than
> > one that looks like planking. Lots of metal airplanes, especially
> old
> > ones like a Ford Trimotor, have this kind of feature even on the
> outer
> > skins. I remember riding in a glass skiff where you could see the
> > water level from the inside, plus the side flexed visibly in
normal
> > use.
>
> Good points, but I would be worried about the company making them.
> Glass is very strong, and properly made is quite stiff. Laps would
> have added necesary strength to a weak laminate schedule. Core or
> something would be a more modern solution. I have to admire the
> folks that faired and smoothed the mold.
They look nice and last forever.
Always wondered why the symbol of love was something that looked and smelled
good for awhile, but quickly dies, shriveles up, and withers away...
Always wondered why the symbol of love was something that looked and smelled
good for awhile, but quickly dies, shriveles up, and withers away...
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeff" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
|
|
| > Hmmm, well if the fellow is on his way to Costa Rica and we're
| > sitting here pounding keys, who got the better deal? :- )
|
| He did for sure. My reference is akin to plastic flowers the wife, they
| look nice from a distance but they aren't real. Of course a they'll last
| forever....I guess that could be good too!
|
| Jeff
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
> Always wondered why the symbol of love was something that looked andsmelled
> good for awhile, but quickly dies, shriveles up, and withers away...Ahh, I'm somewhat lucky in that aspect, my wife liked my homebuilt wooden
boat before she even knew me! She didn't know what it was....but liked it
anyway! Flowers don't thrill her since she's alergic to most. She has to
stay at least 10 feet away from most flowers. She loves the smell of cedar,
especially on a boat! Go figure! :>)
> Hmmm, well if the fellow is on his way to Costa Rica and we'reHe did for sure. My reference is akin to plastic flowers the wife, they
> sitting here pounding keys, who got the better deal? :- )
look nice from a distance but they aren't real. Of course a they'll last
forever....I guess that could be good too!
Jeff
Hmmm, well if the fellow is on his way to Costa Rica and we're
sitting here pounding keys, who got the better deal? :- )
sitting here pounding keys, who got the better deal? :- )
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > That is where you hide the fiberglass tape to make your wooden
boat look
> > like a production fiberglass one. Similar to the molded in
lapstrake ribs
> > they put in fiberglass boats to make them look like wooden
ones... :-)
>
> I have a close friend that recently paid almost 6 figures for a
used 37'
> plastic boat that looks like a wooden boat. He calls it a classic
and I
> hate to say anything to burst his bubble but let's face it, it's a
fake!
> It's a knock off a Herschel (sp). He's on his way to Costa Rica on
the
> Pacific as we speak.
>
> Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
Glass is very strong, and properly made is quite stiff. Laps would
have added necesary strength to a weak laminate schedule. Core or
something would be a more modern solution. I have to admire the
folks that faired and smoothed the mold.
> Actually, I think even tho it is "fake", the lapstrake thing willadd
> some stiffness to an inherently floppy material, so there is aLITTLE
> excuse. Of course there is probably a more optimal "corrugation"than
> one that looks like planking. Lots of metal airplanes, especiallyold
> ones like a Ford Trimotor, have this kind of feature even on theouter
> skins. I remember riding in a glass skiff where you could see theGood points, but I would be worried about the company making them.
> water level from the inside, plus the side flexed visibly in normal
> use.
Glass is very strong, and properly made is quite stiff. Laps would
have added necesary strength to a weak laminate schedule. Core or
something would be a more modern solution. I have to admire the
folks that faired and smoothed the mold.
Actually, I think even tho it is "fake", the lapstrake thing will add
some stiffness to an inherently floppy material, so there is a LITTLE
excuse. Of course there is probably a more optimal "corrugation" than
one that looks like planking. Lots of metal airplanes, especially old
ones like a Ford Trimotor, have this kind of feature even on the outer
skins. I remember riding in a glass skiff where you could see the
water level from the inside, plus the side flexed visibly in normal
use.
some stiffness to an inherently floppy material, so there is a LITTLE
excuse. Of course there is probably a more optimal "corrugation" than
one that looks like planking. Lots of metal airplanes, especially old
ones like a Ford Trimotor, have this kind of feature even on the outer
skins. I remember riding in a glass skiff where you could see the
water level from the inside, plus the side flexed visibly in normal
use.
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > That is where you hide the fiberglass tape to make your wooden
boat look
> > like a production fiberglass one. Similar to the molded in
lapstrake ribs
> > they put in fiberglass boats to make them look like wooden ones...
:-)
>
> I have a close friend that recently paid almost 6 figures for a used
37'
> plastic boat that looks like a wooden boat. He calls it a classic
and I
> hate to say anything to burst his bubble but let's face it, it's a
fake!
> It's a knock off a Herschel (sp). He's on his way to Costa Rica on
the
> Pacific as we speak.
>
> Jeff
That is where you hide the fiberglass tape to make your wooden boat look
like a production fiberglass one. Similar to the molded in lapstrake ribs
they put in fiberglass boats to make them look like wooden ones... :-)
like a production fiberglass one. Similar to the molded in lapstrake ribs
they put in fiberglass boats to make them look like wooden ones... :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
| Howdy Richard
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:14 PM
| Subject: Re: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
|
|
| > talc works ok for a fairing compound.
|
| Only revealing a very small portion of my ignorance, what is fairing? Is
| that where 2 panels meet at an angle, and that angle is filled (filleted)
| with epoxy??
|
| Thanks
|
| See Ya
|
| Have Fun
|
| Bruce
|
|http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
> That is where you hide the fiberglass tape to make your wooden boat lookI have a close friend that recently paid almost 6 figures for a used 37'
> like a production fiberglass one. Similar to the molded in lapstrake ribs
> they put in fiberglass boats to make them look like wooden ones... :-)
plastic boat that looks like a wooden boat. He calls it a classic and I
hate to say anything to burst his bubble but let's face it, it's a fake!
It's a knock off a Herschel (sp). He's on his way to Costa Rica on the
Pacific as we speak.
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
As I understand it, cabosil is "rock" also but a can of it feels like
an empty can. A can of talc seems like a can of rock. The boat I am
currently building needs 70# of ballast, so I don't really care what
this stuff weighs. The next let-down will be to find it consumes
about twice the epoxy in the mix as 410 does. Happily I have several
inferior brands of epoxy I am bloting up for this project, along with
S3 in high load areas. BUt I won't be using talk in prime time on
other projects.
> > The "paint" can my talcI just couldn't find anyone to say that before I bought the talc. ;0)
> > came in weighs about twice what paint would.
>
> Talc IS a kind of rock, after all.
>
> Professionals use (and pay for) microballoons and other man-made
> fillers because they do have certain advantages.
As I understand it, cabosil is "rock" also but a can of it feels like
an empty can. A can of talc seems like a can of rock. The boat I am
currently building needs 70# of ballast, so I don't really care what
this stuff weighs. The next let-down will be to find it consumes
about twice the epoxy in the mix as 410 does. Happily I have several
inferior brands of epoxy I am bloting up for this project, along with
S3 in high load areas. BUt I won't be using talk in prime time on
other projects.
> The "paint" can my talcTalc IS a kind of rock, after all.
> came in weighs about twice what paint would.
Professionals use (and pay for) microballoons and other man-made
fillers because they do have certain advantages.
>fairing? Is
> Only revealing a very small portion of my ignorance, what is
> that where 2 panels meet at an angle, and that angle is filled(filleted)
> with epoxy??You could use a fillet to fair a particular surface. Fairing is,
>
however, smoothing that is consistent with an intended shape. So if
your plan calls for an 8' diameter ball, fairing that object will
result in an 8' diameter ball. A smooth surface is not always fair.
If it has unintended ripples for instance.
I posted a question about Talc a few weeks ago. I suggested at the
time that perhaps 410 (an expensive fairing compound) was just talc
with some binder in it. Well I was wrong. The "paint" can my talc
came in weighs about twice what paint would. This stuff weighs a
ton. Which isn't a problem in certain cases, but not a good thing in
others.
As I have mentioned before, but we are back to square one here, using
stuff like wood flour and limestone may save money on the additive,
but it costs a lot in weight, and epoxy. I had the chance to compare
the work of two designers recently for roughly similar 30'
multihulls. The boats are different, but the epoxy consumption is in
the same ballpark as regards the kind of construction. One boat, the
boat where wood flour is suggested vs. Q-cell for the other, uses 55
gallons of epoxy vs 40 gallons. Now there isn't any way other than
experience of attributing that extra epoxy use. But the point is
that even if all one knows is that one could save 20-30% of the epoxy
consumption, that adds up to 10-15 gallons reguardless. And in both
cases that's west or system three, not a cheap brand. I think 10#
bag of Q-cell, or two would do it, and that is only a few hundred.
15gal of epoxy is 1500 in my dollars. For small jobs the difference
may weigh hevily towards somthing one doesn't have to get from
outside.
It also adds quite a bit of time measuring and mixing larger amounts
of epoxy, a further reason to use a higher yield filler.
"Fairing" is filling in the weave of fiberglass cloth and making
the hull coating smooth and "fair". You make a thickened
epoxy/filler mix, so that it is about the consistancy of molasses.
It also fills any dips, dents, screw holes, nail holes etc. I have
used talc as a fairing filler and also as a thickener for a glue (I
didn't have anything else). I bought baby powder as a quick standin.
It worked well and even smelled good. I haven't tried Portland
cement, but I would think that it is quite heavy and would sag on
vertical surfaces. I prefer wood flour for almost everything and I
add Cabosil (fumed silica) when I want to fair or don't want
sagging. I also like to add "glass" powder to my fillet mix, to add
a little more strength. The added benny of wood flour is that it
looks like the wood you are using, so if you are leaving the
surfaces bright (not painting), then it blends in better with the
surrounding wood. Hope this answers your questions.
Steve.
the hull coating smooth and "fair". You make a thickened
epoxy/filler mix, so that it is about the consistancy of molasses.
It also fills any dips, dents, screw holes, nail holes etc. I have
used talc as a fairing filler and also as a thickener for a glue (I
didn't have anything else). I bought baby powder as a quick standin.
It worked well and even smelled good. I haven't tried Portland
cement, but I would think that it is quite heavy and would sag on
vertical surfaces. I prefer wood flour for almost everything and I
add Cabosil (fumed silica) when I want to fair or don't want
sagging. I also like to add "glass" powder to my fillet mix, to add
a little more strength. The added benny of wood flour is that it
looks like the wood you are using, so if you are leaving the
surfaces bright (not painting), then it blends in better with the
surrounding wood. Hope this answers your questions.
Steve.
--- In bolger@y..., "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@c...> wrote:
> Howdy Richard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
>
>
> > talc works ok for a fairing compound.
>
> Only revealing a very small portion of my ignorance, what is
fairing? Is
> that where 2 panels meet at an angle, and that angle is filled
(filleted)
> with epoxy??
>
> Thanks
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
>http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
Howdy Richard
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
> talc works ok for a fairing compound.
Only revealing a very small portion of my ignorance, what is fairing? Is
that where 2 panels meet at an angle, and that angle is filled (filleted)
with epoxy??
Thanks
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
talc works ok for a fairing compound. Only use cement if you are anchoring
a bolt in rock, it sags and is a bitch to sand. wheat flour makes a decent
filler, but the best one is wood flour.
a bolt in rock, it sags and is a bitch to sand. wheat flour makes a decent
filler, but the best one is wood flour.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...>
To: <openboat@yahoogroups.com>; <DinghyCruising@yahoogroups.com>;
<bolger@yahoogroups.com>; <Smallboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:31 PM
Subject: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
| Howdy
|
| I read some where that you could use Portland Cement or Talcum power as an
| additive/filler in epoxy. Seems odd to me. Has anybody used either of
| these for that purpose? How did it work?
|
| Thanks
|
| See Ya
|
| Have Fun
|
| Bruce
|
|http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Dave Carnell outlines some cheap epoxy addidtives at his home page.
http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/epoxy.html
I have not used any of his ideas yet...
Justin
http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/epoxy.html
I have not used any of his ideas yet...
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce C. Anderson <bcanderson@...>
To: <openboat@yahoogroups.com>; <DinghyCruising@yahoogroups.com>;
<bolger@yahoogroups.com>; <Smallboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: [bolger] Portland Cement and Talcum Powder
> Howdy
>
> I read some where that you could use Portland Cement or Talcum power as an
> additive/filler in epoxy. Seems odd to me. Has anybody used either of
> these for that purpose? How did it work?
>
> Thanks
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
>http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Howdy
I read some where that you could use Portland Cement or Talcum power as an
additive/filler in epoxy. Seems odd to me. Has anybody used either of
these for that purpose? How did it work?
Thanks
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/
I read some where that you could use Portland Cement or Talcum power as an
additive/filler in epoxy. Seems odd to me. Has anybody used either of
these for that purpose? How did it work?
Thanks
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://www.cableone.net/bcanderson/